Anxiety-Proof Her Interview with Rita Desnoyers-Garcia

Rita Desnoyers-Garcia has been helping people reach their true potential for over 30 years. She has a BA in Psychology from College of the Holy Cross and an MSSW from Columbia University. After a long career as a social worker in New York City, and while raising her family, she had a spiritual transformation. She is now a spiritual teacher, speaker, life coach, and author, comedian and musician. She is the author of 3 books: Extraordinary Abundance, Outside of the Box Love Experiments, and The Self-Compassion Project and the creator of The Forest Meditations. You can find out more about Rita’s work and offerings at www.becomingawake.com. She lives with her husband and three children in New Jersey.

Learn more about Rita at the links below:

www.becomingawake.com

https://www.facebook.com/BecomingAwake

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Thank you so much for tuning in!

If you are looking for solutions that will allow you to break free from negative thought patterns, worrying, and the uncomfortable symptoms that are caused by anxiety check out Jennifer's website at www.jenniferbronsnick.com or join the Anxiety-Proof Her Facebook Community HERE: https://www.facebook.com/groups/anxietyproofher

Transcript

00:03

Welcome to the anxiety proof her Podcast, where amazing women come for education, inspiration and hope around healing from anxiety. Each month, you're going to hear from other women who took control of their mental health by using outside the box holistic strategies to cope with their anxiety and to ultimately thrive. You will also learn from experts in the health and wellness industry, about the tools they use every day to help their patients reclaim their well being. We hope this information allows you to see that there are many different paths to healing. I'm your host, Jennifer Bronsnick, and I'm a licensed clinical social worker, and anxiety treatment professional. I help women and teen girls who struggle with anxiety, self doubt, and perfectionism to tap into their innate resilience, get to the root of their fears, and implement custom healing strategies so that they can experience peace of mind, more self confidence and be liberated from the suffering that living with anxiety causes. I have lived with anxiety my whole life, and know how hard it can be. I also know that there is hope, and it's 100% treatable with the right information and support. Thank you so much for showing up for yourself and taking the first step to reclaiming your wellbeing and resilience. Welcome to the anxiety prove her podcast as always, we get started I connecting with our hearts, and by centering ourselves. So just take a moment to put both of your feet on the ground. And allow yourself just for these few seconds to feel totally and completely held and supported. Maybe even imagining that there is this cocoon of safety around you that is holding you up in any way that you need. And from this grounded and held space, allow yourself to bring your attention to the area of your heart center. And just bring your attention right there into that space of love joy of hope. Just take a few deep, deep breaths, imagining as though you're breathing in and out through your heart center. sending these renewing feelings through the heart and allowing them to transform every single cell in your body. So that within this cocoon. They're also surrounded by the feelings of love, joy. And just take a moment to choose one of those feelings and just anchor it into your body. Maybe by putting both hands on your heart

03:38

and setting that intention. Then just another deep breath and exhale. And now you're ready to receive exactly what you need to receive during this time today.

04:02

I am so excited to have my friend, my colleague, my friend for many, many years now, like we've known each other a long time. Rita deployers Garcia has been helping people reach their true potential for over 30 years. She has a BA in psychology and MSW from Columbia University. After a long career as a social worker in New York City while raising her family, she had a spiritual transformation. She is now a spiritual teacher, speaker, life coach, author, comedian, musician I love like all the passions blending together. She's the author of three books, extraordinary abundance outside the box love experiments and the self compassion project, as well as the creator of the forest meditations and you can find more out about Rita's work and offerings at becoming awake.com. Welcome. Thank you so much for being here.

05:10

Thank you so much, Jennifer, for inviting me.

05:13

And I just want to give you a shout out because when I so years and years ago, I had a radio show. And it was live, it was a live fricking radio show, which is pretty intense, like podcasts, you record, you can go back, you can edit, you can fix things, it's much easier, but a live radio show is there's a lot of stress that goes behind it. And one time I had my radio show, and my guest didn't show up. And Rita saw my post on Facebook called in and really just saved me in that moment, because it was incredibly stressed. Like, I had to show that I was gonna have to pull random stuff. Like I wasn't planning anything, I had nothing. And like, we didn't have a lot of tools in the toolkit. But still in that moment, it was like, Thank you, God. Thank you universe for sending read. So I'm so excited to continue this conversation, even though I have no idea what we talked about on that radio show.

06:17

I vaguely remember that. And I have to say, Jennifer, you didn't show your nerves. You didn't I didn't notice you seemed like you kind of had it all. I thought oh, I'll just call in. No props.

06:30

No, that's I think that's the skill of a good anxious person is that most of us were able to hold in all those, you know, those feelings are on the inside. Nobody on the outside knows oh my gosh, like they're actually anxious. But inside the bodies that fight flight, the systems are going so lovely. Yeah. So I would love to hear just a little bit more because this is a podcast about healing from anxiety. So can you share a little bit about your experience with stress, anxiety, and how it shows up in your life, but also maybe some of the tools that you use for yourself.

07:11

So I come, I come by it honestly. anxiety. My mother, God bless her, was a big worrier. She had her mother was a big worrier. She grew up in a very anxious time of the depression, World War Two. You know, her mother grew up a turn of the century, last century. And so I grew up in a household where there was a lot of activity and a lot of anxiety, a lot of worry about just life. And I didn't even know that I had anxiety. I just thought my mother had anxiety. I wouldn't even call it that. I'd say she's a worrier. I didn't even know until I was in graduate school for social work. When finally one of my friends said, you know, maybe it would be a good idea if you saw a therapist. Because I was constantly calling I was a serial caller. I was like, I have to talk to you and I went through panic attacks. I didn't even know there were panic attacks. So I had all this education. You know, it was in Social Work school at Columbia University, and you're supposed to be so learned. I had no idea what was going on with me.

08:30

Wow, that's so interesting, because my experience was when I was in Social Work school, was once I learned that through like the DSM class. I had every disorder. Yes,

08:41

yes. I definitely got through that, too. Yeah. in psychology class. I definitely had that like, and I'm that and I'm that. Yeah. checked off the box. Exactly. Exactly. Did you did you? Yes. So I went to Airbus. Yes, I so I got into therapy. Columbia actually has a great Counseling Center. I went to a counselor there for a couple sessions. And then that brought me to a therapist that I had for seven years. So I was very much in the middle of the Upper West Side of Manhattan. Everyone has a therapist. It's not. It's like that's part of living in New York City.

09:21

Yeah. Can I ask what their framework was because when I was I've done many different types of therapy like psychoanalytic therapy, which I did not enjoy but what was there like a clinical background that she was using with you?

09:40

You know, I would say it was not analytic. I wasn't like laying on a couch with stream consciousness. I She didn't say much. I remember being very frustrated. She was very much the blank slate and I was like, damn it, lady. Just tell me what to do. And and she would say, you know, I could tell you what to do, but you probably wouldn't follow What I said and, and basically, you know, we're going to get it out of you, you gotta like, you know, basically you just got to keep doing the same thing you're doing until we figure out something else. And so I think that's one of the reasons took seven years and I did have the diagnosis generalized anxiety disorder. So that was the first time I saw it, you know, on the bill, and I'm like, Oh, I have anxiety. Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

10:25

It's so funny that, you know, it took being in school, to figure out to put a name to the feeling so that you know, the same thing I just thought I was I had, you know, a stomach ache, or overstressed? Or like for me, I'd be walking on the city in Manhattan, and like, start to have a panic attack, you know, for no reason at all.

10:49

Well, yeah. And you know, living in Manhattan, nothing against the city. But it's not a complex. Yeah. It's a hyped up high energy. everything's happening all the time. There's no stillness. And it's so it's not like going to a spa. Yeah, very different. And I think I was attracted to that I was very attracted to. I was very attracted to drama. I was the drama queen. If it wasn't happening, I was not alive.

11:18

Yeah, like that boredom feeling.

11:22

Boredom is the enemy and I was a serial dater. So I was always in a relationship. And it was never going the way I wanted it to go. So I remember coming to the conclusion after many years of therapy, when I finally got to the, to the point where I wasn't dating someone. I realized I don't think I exist. If I'm not in relationship to someone that's dramatic. with normal relationships. We're not attracted to people.

11:52

Yeah, yeah, you wanted that though? wishon.

11:54

I added the tension I needed the anxiety fuel, the anxiety was very, very addictive.

12:01

So funny, because people say, Well, why don't you just get rid of anxiety? And yet, there's a part of us that really likes it, you know, that almost enjoys that amped up feeling and, like, a weight. You know, I if I gave up caffeine, I wouldn't necessarily feel this way all the time. I was gonna say, America happening.

12:22

Yeah, yeah. That's why America runs on Dunkin. Right? So a mirror is really anxiety. But it does help

12:30

the same system. Yeah, it's releasing the adrenaline in the back. But anxiety is doing is so great that, yeah, well, and then I was talking to a client the other day. And what's interesting is that, it's when we get the panic, especially, it's not only the panic that we get, but we also eventually get that release of it being over of that feeling of pleasure. So it's this, it's being able to, you know, be within that whole system of non resistance to what, what's happening in the moment. Which is, you know, that was sort of my growth process that allowed me I think, to ultimately heal is that it just radical acceptance? Would you say that it was something similar for you, or within the therapy process was there, you know, an awakening or something that allowed you to just maybe live with the anxiety differently?

13:33

I'm trying to think back with therapy, what exactly she did I, or what we discovered together other than I, I think I just started realizing that I was using relationships. in a, in a way that wasn't serving me, certainly wasn't functional. And when I remember, it shifted when I met my husband, because he was normal. It was so normal. I was like, I don't know, this guy's so normal. It was that was the first time my therapists actually said something. And she went, wait, what? She was like, she was angry. She was, are you telling me you know, and so that was a kind of come to Jesus moment for me. And I was like, Oh, this is what normal relationships are like, and maybe I don't want to like sabotage that. And so anyway, long story short, we married and had children, and moved eventually moved out of the city. And so I was in a calmer place. And then I realized I'm barely answering your question here. Exactly. But that's the second time the wheels came off the wagon in my life was I had three small children. So for an under and I was in a multi level marketing company, and I really want To succeed, and I was wondering, you know, potential stars in their company and I, and I really loved the products, and I got into a marketing program that teaches you how to do it differently than maybe the company teaches you. It's like not markets at all. It's all leads. So anyway, so I was on the phone a lot with lead lists. And everything was falling apart. I would I pulled a muscle in my tongue. Have you ever heard of this?

15:34

No. What were you doing with your tongue? Right?

15:37

I was talking about that. And so much tension, so much attention. I was trying to close clients for my business with a toddler on my knee. Wow. Sometimes I had a chronic cough. I was selling health and wellness products. Yeah. And I was like, yeah. laughing at the irony of this thing about it wasn't

15:59

during COVID then right? Yes,

16:01

this is many, many years ago. So I knew something was wrong. And it was all about I'm going to save my family, I'm going to make a million dollars. This is all anxiety running underneath this, right? But this is I'm going to save my family. My husband works long hours, I want him to be home. So I'm going to be the breadwinner, I'm going to make a bazillion dollars. And what was actually happening was, the kids were crying, I was crying. My husband was still working as long hours. So I hired a coach. This is so this next person came into my life. I hired a business coach and he was supposed to help me with my business. But what really happened was, he said, I think it's time to take a step back from your business. And I was like, What? It was like just sort of just a pause just to pause. And I'm like, I'm not a quitter. And he's like you're not quitting you're taking a pause. Yeah. Because my anxiety was through the roof. I was falling apart. Everything was all of it. You know all of it. All the wounds were coming up. Yeah, you know, I never accomplished anything I'm a complete failure if I don't if this doesn't go right, then I failed my life. Blah, blah, blah.

17:18

All of it. Yeah, those old stories.

17:21

Yeah, so what I learned from him one of the first things he said to me was can you just be kind and gentle with yourself right now? Just right now. And I burst into tears.

17:36

Yeah, I can so feel that just I think so many people just listening need to hear that right now. Yeah, just be kind and gentle with yourself

17:47

just for right now. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And my mind went all over the place. No one's ever told me that before. What what's the point of that? Where will they get me? I don't know if I can do that.

18:08

will lie to me if I am that, you know, yeah, that's like where if my identity is here as this person that's a go getter and successful and like city living and you know, all of that. If I'm now taking a step back, if I'm just if I'm compassionate with myself, like what it what does that even mean?

18:30

Yeah, I wasn't sure how to do it. But I was I'm a good student. Part of my personality is that I am a good student, I follow instruction as well. So I was just like, Alright, dude. Alright, I'll do it. started crying was very present with myself. And I realized that all of the problems that I was worried about faded away for that moment. Just for that moment, yeah. And that started me on a huge journey into dealing with myself, dealing with other people and then eventually helping other people that I'd have. Because I realized, wow, just for one moment, being kind and gentle, was like years of therapy for me. That was like yeah, I think that maybe the therapy set me up for it, you know, put me in a different place so I could receive the coach. Yeah, totally. Um, and then another thing he said to me and I keep coming back to this every time I you know, get into my work and everything and it gets really complicated and all the bells and whistles I come back to the one thing what he says, which is, okay, this week, this is what I want you to do. I want you to just notice how you feel. It could be every 20 minutes, you could put a timer on your phone, it could be every time you're in line. We're at a stoplight or brushing dishes or whatever you're doing. Just ask how you feel. And then just notice Then if you're feeling anxiety, don't do anything about it. Just allow yourself to feel it. And I was like, don't do anything about it. Are you cray cray? And he's like, no, because you cut off your anxiety all the time, you just do yourself out of it, and you never really feel it. You know, I never really allow yourself to have the whole journey through that anxious moment. And so I was like, Alright, I am, I will follow instructions. And that's when I realized in terms of tracking how I was feeling, I felt a low level of anxiety most of the day, no matter what was going on. Yeah. Sometimes there was a story attached to it. Sometimes there was no story. No, because he asked me to keep track of that. And just notice, like, What's your thoughts before, during and after? Yeah, and then, and then, when I started to feel anxiety, remember, oh, he all right, he wants me to just feel it and not do anything about it. So I remember sitting like in a chair, just like I'm sitting in right now, next to the window that I'm next to right now. Feeling it. And I thought I was gonna hard tech. They went up and up and up and up and up. And I was like, it feels hard going. And I was like, holy crap.

21:23

I think I might have a heart attack, but I didn't. And then what I noticed is that it hit a peak.

21:32

And then slowly started to come down. Yeah, that was the first time I really allowed myself that I can remember having a complete emotional moment without actually trying to cut it off in some way or make it better.

21:48

Yeah, by just being with it, like allowing, I think of it, as you know, those feelings, their messages. And if we're never listening to the messages, if we're never listening to the whole thing, the whole cycle, or missing something, and it just it gets stronger and stronger until we have no choice but to then listen and usually hire us to help us through it at that time. So I want to shift Just a minute, because we've talked a lot about your like, the traditional clinical background of like getting therapy working in that space, but I want to hear about the spiritual awakening. And if that has impacted your experience of healing or coping in any way.

22:45

Absolutely, it informs pretty much everything I do in my life, I became a voracious seeker of all that. And I'd been a seeker of all that for a long time, when I look back at my life, different books and people and teachers that I gravitated to, over the years. But the transformation was came when I realized that my whole life that I built for myself was based on just beliefs. My like, you know, like, I had built a whole metaphorical mom manual for myself, right? And I would make myself miserable. Because on page 37 of the manual, it said, if you're a good mom, you x you do X, and maybe I didn't want to do X, or maybe I wasn't doing x very well. And my estimate, yeah. And I realized that, you know, part of the expression, it was all BS. And then I realized my whole life was kind of BS, if it's all based on these beliefs that I've made up, or inherited. Yeah, from

24:01

culture, from our parents, you know, we're inundated constantly by this is the way this is the path. These are the steps you have to take to live a well live life, which, like you said,

24:14

is all BS. It's all BS. And I know it's Bs, because I did everything the way I was supposed to do it. Because I'm a, because my part of being read of the character is that you're an A student, and you follow directions. And that serves me very well, except when it doesn't, right. Yeah. So I had, I had followed all the rules. I had great education and master's grade. I had, you know, and I Columbia school, Columbia, right. And I had married a wonderful man and I had children. I had a I had a minivan. They had a house. I lived in a nice neighborhood. wasn't happy, it was miserable. Yeah. And I noticed all of the, you know, walk through Whole Foods, never walked through Whole Foods and nothing against Whole Foods, but it's a, it's a, it's a plethora of of abundance, you have abundance all around you how many people are really happy and there are a lot of miserable people walking through Whole Foods. Right? Yeah,

25:22

yeah, everywhere you know, because everywhere I think it we're just constantly wearing a mask and not doing what brings us joy and pleasure because we have been trained, it's not our fault, but especially as women that like, be the martyr, that's how you win at the end, you know, give a give all of yourself away, you know, and make sure that others are doing well be a giver, you know, these messages constantly, are coming at us. And I am hoping that women are waking up to the bullshit and that and that, you know, the actual, you know, becoming the world that we want to create become happens when women wake up and realize that, you know, we deserve to take care of ourselves, and we deserve to have pleasure and joy and whatever we want in our lives.

26:21

Yeah. And part of it is that, you know, life is Yeah, life is deeper than the material. I've never been a Material Girl, as they say. I've never been a big Material Girl. But I was certainly caught up in credentials.

26:40

Sounds like yeah, accomplishment was your material. Schmidt

26:43

Yeah, that was my Yeah, completely. And that was a big part of the culture of my family. had to be a certain body shape. Right? Yeah. I was never I'm not a big makeup person. But I had to have a certain aesthetic about me. You know, there's a lot of

27:06

BS Yeah, rules that you are creating Billy

27:09

identity. Yeah, very much an identity around that. And then when I wasn't happy in that identity, I didn't know what was wrong. I just thought maybe I'm being spoiled. I'm just spoiled. Just you know, I don't know what's wrong with me just just not happy. And, and there is something to that, like now I'm like, Yeah, I can just be happy. But it's not because I have it's not because I'm having I'm doing it's because of who I am. Yeah, deeper level.

27:36

Yeah. So it's that being place. So would you say that that was the awakening? For you? Yeah, you're waiting to being

27:48

Yeah, a lot of it. Being in the now so a lot of Eckhart totally who was making big influence on me. I did a lot of my coach was a part of a lineage of Don Miguel Ruiz. Oh. So he so my coach study under Ray Dodd who wrote the power of belief and Ray Dodd studied under Don Miguel Ruiz. Okay. So a lot of belief work a lot of like, what are you believing right now? That's not serving you. And it was like almost everything. A lot of it.

28:26

Yeah. So did you make a list? Was it like yeah, there

28:29

was a Holy Cross it out me. He brought me through an eight week program about it he had it all worked out and it was I had to like I have a belief journal and and so it was very I kept thinking beliefs were like religious beliefs or political beliefs. Yeah, but those values right, but it's like so tiny. It's sort of like things like I don't know. Now I can't think of any beliefs but but

28:59

progress. It's like every now I

29:03

know there's so there's always beliefs that I can I get that I can recognize that I have. But and it's usually because of I have a judgment, if I have a judgment on anything is because I have a belief about something totally.

29:13

Yeah, it's that critical, critical part of us that comes in like I need to be this way to be loved.

29:19

Yes. Right. I have to say this in order to be accepted. I belong to this group to be cool. I have to say, say do act judge to be safe. And what I've realized is that today, I feel like if something's gonna happen, it's gonna happen. And it's not supposed to happen and won't happen. Yeah. And I say that to my clients who have anxiety and I thought, oh boy, this is gonna throw them over the edge if I say this, but it actually brings them a lot of relief.

29:55

Why do you think that is? What do you think the shift is?

30:01

I think there's a tension between wanting to control everything and knowing that you can control everything. And so when I say you can't control everything, they're like, Oh, thank God. Yeah. Everything. Yeah, yeah. In fact, I remember to side note here when I had just two children and not the third one was did not exist. The oldest one was to have the second was in a, you know, like a baby. And the two year old wandered off in the neighborhood. When I turned my back, because I was putting the other in a, in a car seat, right? didn't quite have it in the car seat. So I'm like, What the heck and my kid go, I'm running down the street, I am freaked out. Yes. And then I see this, this woman come down the street very quickly, and I realized, Oh, she knows where my kid is, because she's looking around for a mom. So I get her and I grab her. And I'm like, Honey, don't do that. And I'm so worried about you. And she's like, Oh, he's picking a flower, whatever. I bring her back to the house, I open up and my baby is halfway out the car seat. Like almost the car seat. And I'm like, Oh, my God, like, well let this never end. Yes, yeah. And so I got in the car seat, but an hour or so later, I called my mom who had six children. And I said, You're not gonna believe what happened, but blah, blah, blah. And she said, Oh, honey, you can't control at all. And I went, Oh, thanks. Yeah.

31:41

Yeah, I love that permission. I've lost my daughter twice. Just if we want to go to hashtag bad mom fail. Once she got stuck. We all got off the elevator. She was too and she stayed on in the door shot.

31:56

Oh, yes.

31:59

Oh, there she like who knows where like I didn't know where she was going. But I just like started running up the stairs. And you know to find her Yes. Other time was crowded, crowded beach. And she was we were watching her watching her sort of, obviously not and she wander the other direction down the beach. And, you know, but like, it all worked out, like mote like yeah, I would say 99.9% of the time. It's all gonna be okay. Like, it's just gonna be okay. And so if you can put that belief in, I think where it's like becoming awake is really this. trusting that it's going to be okay.

32:46

Yeah, yeah. So I want

32:49

to hear if you have a message of hope or love something that you're just feeling that anyone listening today needs to hear.

33:01

Oh, boy, I know you're new. I knew you were going to ask me this question. Now. I'm like, Okay. Yeah, take

33:16

what popped into my head is this wherever you are, in your life is where you need to be right now. Because this is where you are. And it doesn't mean things aren't going to change but it also doesn't mean you did anything wrong. It doesn't mean that you're behind or going backwards or you're being punished for you screwed up or that you're unacceptable or unworthy doesn't mean any of that. It's just where you are in this moment. And can you just can you ask yourself the question Can I accept where I am?

34:20

Yeah, no, I love that. I love that. Just being with what is that dropping that resistance like if you're sad if you're happy if you're frustrated? It's Yeah, it's all good. It's all because it's happening. This is where you totally Yeah, you didn't kind of just for the party you wanted the suffering to

34:47

you came for the whole ride. You know I had a day several years ago. I'll never forget this day where I went to a memorial service and a wedding in the same day. It was the best day. It was one of my richest emotional days ever. And I felt like I suck the marrow out of all of

35:08

it. Yeah. That pain and grief. Oh loss to joy and love the end excitement. And there

35:18

was crying with both of them there was laughing with both of them. There was joke because there's a lot of joke telling in my life, there's joke telling there was music and both of them. Yeah, it was such a rich, I felt like I experienced all 88 keys of the emotional keyboard. And I thought this is life. Yeah, this is what you desire that

35:39

and to want that rather than saying, No, I just want this. I only want these four feeling. Yeah. You know, that's where the suffering comes in. Because that is our soul does not want that it wants that day, it wants that feeling that you have that full, rich. There's a article that I read about having a life that's really, you know, full is because there's psychological richness, that it's not about this meaning it's about the feeling, it's about experiencing, it's not about having it's about being really, yeah. And so that was really eye opening to me to think of Oh, okay, like, these are the things that I'm, I want to do uncomfortable things because I want to have this rich life versus I only want to be comfortable, and happy and safe. And so I'm going to stay in this bubble. Like, that's not my soul, like, resist that. And it's like, the more I want that the more anxious I get. Because pain oftentimes it's just a messenger that you're not on the right track. And you know, once we wake up to those things, we like shift a little Yes. So Rita, tell everyone again, how they can find you. Whether like you prefer social media, your website.

37:09

Um, my website is becoming awake, calm. And it's got a lot of there's freebie stuff on there that you can go and try out. I have a lot of different events and courses that I have on there. In fact, I have an event coming up October 27. I don't know when this is going to air but soon. Yeah. Before that's Wednesday, October 27. It's called from stress to success, the self compassion strategy. And so it's a free two hour workshop, where we kind of dive into how do you deal with your stress? Yeah, what is one stress telling you? Yeah. So I'm doing that. And then also on my website, there's a contact page. And so people can always go to that contact page and have a free 30 minute discovery session where they can just talk about what's going on with them and, and, and, you know, I can see if I could help them and how I could help them. And then always, I'm on I have a Facebook page becoming awake on Facebook. I'm also on alignable, becoming awake on alignable. So those are the best ways I guess to connect with me.

38:33

Perfect. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for this conversation, your time this wonderful, great conversation and help people reach out to become more awake. Have a great day everyone. Thank you so much for taking the time to invest in your well being. I hope you learned at least one new idea or technique that you might want to implement into your own life. Remember, you're not alone, there is hope and with the right information and support you can thrive. If you're dealing with panic or looking for a step by step process that will allow you to break free from this crippling fear state. I want to invite you to check out my panic attack Survival Guide, you can grab your free copy at www dot Jennifer bronsnick.com Thanks for listening