177: How To Prepare & Make It Through "The Tower" (Fire Academy, Police Academy, Basic Training)

In this episode, Kevin and Nole get into what it's like to go through "The Tower". The Tower, often called a Fire Academy, is a very unique training experience that can be difficult to navigate successfully, so with this episode, our goal is to give you some tips, tricks, and insight that can help you be successful and enjoy the process of getting hired as a firefighter. This episode will also be helpful to those of you going into law enforcement or the military, as the initial phases of training for all of these have a lot of similarities. If you're not working to get into any of these lines of work, you will still find this episode interesting, as the things that happen there and the things that are often required of you are unique in many regards. Thanks again for listening; we appreciate you! 

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Transcript

Welcome back to the fire you carry podcast today. We are talking about you got hired with a fire department I'm terrible. What are we saying? We're saying you got hired and you have an academy coming up Let's get into it You

Nole (10:00.768)

Yeah, you're nervous. You don't know what to do. You've never done anything like this in your life before. How do you prepare? What do you do?

Kevin (10:09.038)

Can we start off with to say that for us, my experience is that everything was done by mail, snail mail, like the oldest form of notification, right? And I don't know about you, but like, you know, we're in a different world now. I think they do things by email or something else, but I was just accosting my mailman, you know what I mean? And I knew exactly what time the guy would come at 10 a

And if he was at 1005, it'd be like, Hey bro, you're late, dude. And I was looking at that mail, but that was one of the more exciting times of my life. When you open it up, you got a conditional offer of employment. And I still go, I don't know what that means. What does it mean? And you're calling everybody and then it said, yeah, they said you're in bro. You you're you're in. And then you get another letter that says you go to family day and then you get another letter that says your tower date starts on this day. And it's, it's terrifying, but also the one of the more exciting days of my life.

Nole (10:47.328)

Yeah, what's conditional?

Nole (11:05.728)

Yeah, it was the same for me. Paper letter, I actually still have it in some file folder somewhere. I don't know why you keep stuff like that as a man, but you do. I don't know that my kids are ever going to want that, like hanging on their wall or anything, but it's cool. It's a good feeling. So if you're that person, or you're hoping to be that person in the near future, and even if you're not trying to get hired for fire department, all the stuff we're going to talk about will absolutely apply to if you're going into a police academy or...

Kevin (11:11.886)

Sweet.

Nole (11:34.56)

even in a basic training, like this is all good stuff for any kind of event in your life like that. So we're just going to go through some stuff, some tips, what we would do to prepare and then what we would do in the tower, looking back on our own perspectives, but then also being in a position where we've been doing this job long enough that we've talked to a lot of guys that have gone through the tower.

Kevin (11:41.486)

Yes.

Kevin (11:56.718)

Yeah. And I'll start off with most of you have a job that you have currently that you're working in. And one of the biggest mistakes that I made is I had a decent job. I was 32 when I got finally hired with the County. And so I was providing for my wife. We were planning on having children and I had a decent job with benefits, medical, the whole thing. And when I got the letter, I told them, Hey, I'm hired as a fire department. I'm out of here and I'm going to go prep for the Academy. And I said, I'm just quitting.

And it was a terrible idea. I would say you have to remain flexible because because all the time tower dates may shift. Sometimes they'll brown it out. Sometimes they'll say, we we you're going to be bumped to the next class. I don't know. There's so many different things that can change. I would say you'd have to remain somewhat flexible because I was premature in notifying them that I was leaving. And then I it wasn't until two months later that my actual tower date started.

And I was broke and penniless. And I went back to them and said, just kidding. They pumped my tower date till two months from now. Can I still work? And I said, no kick rocks, get out of here. You know what I mean? You're going to be a fireman. Why would we want to hire you back for two more months? So I would just, I don't know how you do that. And you didn't have to talk to people, but I do think you have to remain flexible when you do get that letter because things change and that the only thing constant is change in the fire world on when those things actually start.

Nole (12:57.952)

Mm -hmm.

Nole (13:04.768)

Ha ha!

Nole (13:25.088)

That is very solid. I think I worked my job that I had right prior to the tower, which was in asphalt. I was doing paving stuff. I think I worked it till a week before my tower started and then had a week to quote unquote get ready, which isn't enough time. but I was getting ready during the job anyway. So first thing, go ahead.

Kevin (13:37.678)

Mmm.

Kevin (13:46.766)

So you got the thing. In a perfect world, what would you say, how would you prep for this fire academy?

Nole (13:53.984)

So this one I think is of utmost importance, especially if you're going into it and you've already got a job, you've already got a family, but really it's important for everybody. You need to start right then and there focusing on your sleep and your recovery. Like before you even get in, you wanna go into this thing as healthy as possible and good quality sleep is going to, it's gonna pay huge dividends. So if you're the type of person that stays up late watching Netflix, whatever, doesn't get enough sleep or doesn't,

monitor the quality of your sleep, start doing it as soon as you find out. You should really start doing it now if you're trying to get hired because it's easy to overlook that, but the importance of it can't be overstated. And obviously that's going to be something that's going to carry on when you're actually in the tower. You're going to need to be focusing on your sleep, but I really believe it's something you got to do upfront and start focusing on it. Really get yourself into the best physical and mental shape you can and sleep is huge for that. So right off the bat.

Kevin (14:50.894)

Yeah, and I will say, if you're even in the younger, you're not married and you don't have any kids or you don't, you're an idiot if you're going out to the bars. You're an idiot if you're going to a rave or you're an idiot if you're going to Coachella and your friends get into a fight and somehow you're mixed in with it. And shows that you're really not ready to be in the fire department and working with grown men. And you have to keep your side of the street clean. You cannot get a DUI. You cannot get into a bar fight. You cannot be.

Nole (14:58.784)

Yeah. Yes.

Kevin (15:20.686)

out doing those things. Your life will look differently than some other 22 year old. And that's for a reason. If you really want this thing, you cannot do what normal 22 year olds do, in my opinion.

Nole (15:32.512)

Yeah, 100%. Couldn't agree more.

Kevin (15:39.31)

All right, let's talk about you talked about obviously good sleep and the recovery. And I think that's fantastic. But I think you if you're going in and saying, I got my letter and now I'm going to get in shape, it's too late. You have to have a base level of fitness. You have to you have to have a base level of fitness to go into a fire academy. So I did CrossFit leading up to the academy and I thought that was I was at a CrossFit gym.

Nole (15:52.032)

Mm. Yep.

Kevin (16:07.662)

and I was doing the prescribed CrossFit three days on, one day's off, three days on, one day's off. And I felt fantastic in the academy. And what I did supplement is when I was about a month and a half, two months out, I know that we do a lot of running. There was cadence running, there's hill running. And so one of the things that CrossFit doesn't do a lot is running. And so I started running and I would run three to four times a week on top of the CrossFit.

I would just do long, slow, distant run building up to five, six, seven miles. And that was helpful because the first thing we do is start running. And now I don't think we luckily you guys are so lucky because you have Evan Hallquist who is running our academies now and his training is phenomenal. And I don't think they go for five, six, seven mile runs in the Hills anymore. I just don't, they don't do that. But for a lot of academies, it's paramilitary. It's old school.

paramilitary start PT where it's cadence runs, long runs, a lot of body weight stuff. And I would say you have to put in that work ahead of time.

Nole (17:09.44)

Yep. You need to be in good physical shape and the time to start is like yesterday. So you got to start now. You got to have a pre -made decision that you're not going to quit. So if this is something that you want to do, this is where you want to end up and you're going into a tower situation. You have to basically decide right now that no matter what happens, I'm not going to raise my hand and say I'm done. No matter how hard it is, no matter how bad of a day you have, no matter if you think you're going to make it through or not.

you're going to get through this thing unless they fail you, which you have no control over, or you get injured. But you're never going to be the guy that raises his hand and said, you know what, this is too tough. And it might sound kind of silly to say, well, I just, you know, why would I need to do that? Why would I mean to decide that I'm not going to quit? But the reason is that when you're in there and you're exhausted and you're tired and you're having a bad day and you've failed two hose lays and you got to pass the next one and

You're with that training captain that you think doesn't like you. Your brain will start to tell you, dude, you're already done. You've already failed. Why go through the effort of doing this? Just tap out. You're not going to make it. You're not cut out for this. Like that kind of negative self -talk can happen. Maybe you're not that type of person, but I know for me that I am that type of person. I'll get in my own head and start telling myself stuff that's not true. But if you know beforehand going in, hey, no matter what happens, I'm not going to quit. I'm going to give this everything I have because this is what I want to do.

And you decide that when things are good, you're getting ready, nothing's going wrong. It's not hard. You're not sleep deprived yet, whatever, but you got to make that decision beforehand. As simple as that sounds, I think that's incredibly important.

Kevin (18:50.606)

It has to be, you have to do that. And Nolz has some experiences as a ranger in a ranger battalion. And that is I think far harder than what it would be to be become a fireman. But at the same time, you do have to have that level of commitment to say, I'm not going to leave here on my own accord. They're going to have to make me, they're going to have to make me come out of here. I remember having a, an older guy that I was, he was mentoring me coming in and he said, how many pushups can you do? And I was like, I don't know about 60.

He's like, wrong answer. If somebody asks you that in the Academy, you say, however many you need me to do, sir. And that's the answer. And that actually came up. How many pushes can you do? And I said, sir, however many you need me to do. He's like, start cranking. And I cranked and cranked and cranked and cranked. And then, you know, after 30 years, all right, get up. But I, it was a decision, a pre -made decision that say, I'm going to do as many as this guy needs me to do. And if they're going to look ugly, they're going to sloppy. I probably fail, but I'm going to do as many as this guy needs me.

Nole (19:50.176)

I'm not going to quit in the process. I love it.

Nole (19:56.992)

attitude.

Kevin (19:58.19)

Yes, my, I went to Oxnard's Fire Academy in, I think it was 2008 or 2009, and one of the guys catchphrase, they're one of the lead cadre members, he goes, I can sum up the fire service in two words, hustle and attitude. And it's actually applicable. Now looking back, I think he was onto something, because if you hustle and you work hard,

Hustle meaning you put in effort and you work hard you're gonna shine no matter if you if you fail consistently But you work hard the guys will like that right and the attitude is everything you could have no idea what you're doing But you work hard and you have a positive attitude and you're willing to learn The guys will you they will see that and you will do well in my opinion and so attitude is everything you have to show up and say

have a short memory because you will fail a hoselite. You will mess up something in the academy. Something will go wrong. You have to erase that from your mind, have a positive attitude and say, I'm going to get the next one. Because if you don't and you dwell on that and you don't, and you have a bummed out attitude and you're negative around everybody else, it's not going to go well for you.

Nole (21:14.465)

Yeah, and when you fail at something, that attitude needs to be apparent to your training cadre. So if you make a mistake and you immediately get super depressed or angry, even worse, that doesn't help your situation. Everyone knows you're disappointed for failing at something. That's not new information. But if you can do that with a positive attitude, if you can fail with a positive attitude, because you will fail in the tower, you're going to fail at something.

but your attitude and what you demonstrate and the way you carry yourself and how you behave after that, that's what speaks volumes. And just like Kevin just said, they don't really care to a point that you're failing, it's how you handle it. Because in the real world, in our job, you're gonna be confronted with stuff you've never seen before that you're not capable of taking care of because maybe it's impossible, but the way that you handle that and your attitude speaks volumes about your character.

Kevin (22:10.414)

And that transfers over. Like when I went to paramedic school, internship is really tough. We eat our own on our internship. And if you have a bad call and a chest pain, you didn't do a great assessment, things didn't go right, you didn't make the right decision. If you beat yourself up on that, you're going to have three to four more of those chest pains in that day. If you dwell on that and don't move on, you're going to fail internship. And so I think that attitude transfers over. And you just dust yourself off. You say, I can do better.

Nole (22:35.072)

Hmm.

Kevin (22:40.27)

You work hard at it and then you go on to the next one, have a positive attitude and say, I'm going to learn, I'm going to get better. It's just a matter of time.

Nole (22:47.552)

Yeah. So let's talk about dealing with the other members of your team, the other people that are going through the tower with you. One of the things that you will probably see in that group of people is that there will be people in their individuals that are seeking attention, trying to outshine everybody else. And that can be very frustrating at times because you can feel like, hey, we're supposed to be a team, or at least you should feel this way.

We're supposed to be a team. We're supposed to be trying to get through this thing together. It's not every man for himself. Like we need to do this stuff together and be strengthening each other, but you will probably have individuals that don't see it that way and they're just out for themselves. I would strongly encourage you if you run into a situation like that or an individual like that to just do your best to bring them on board with a team, do your best to foster that, but to let them do their thing.

and let the cadre worry about that, let them handle it. Don't try to handle it internally. Don't confront that person because you're just gonna bring yourself down in the process. Just continue to be the guy that's bringing the people along that are struggling, that's encouraging everybody, that's really fostering that team environment. And just don't engage, don't become part of trying to outshine everybody else because the cadre are really good at what they do. They've done it probably dozens if not.

hundreds of times and they will identify those people way quicker than you will and they know exactly what to do about it. So let that be on them. Don't worry about it. Just do your best to be the opposite of that and be working as a unit in a team rather than trying to run everything solo.

Kevin (24:27.246)

Yeah. And on the same token, if you are physically gifted and you maybe ran cross country or something like that and they say, Hey, we're going to go for a run up into the Hills and you dust everybody by 10 minutes. You are now the problem. You are now the problem. And so in the beginning, I would say to blend in as best as possible and build up the last guy in the row and actually help the guys along the way. Cause we had guys like Dave Tebow, Nick Millhouser was in the NFL. We had guys that are physically gifted and buried, but there's.

Nole (24:37.864)

Yeah.

Kevin (24:56.878)

very humble human beings. It's only when they focus out on one time when you have to do a hose lay by yourself or throw a ladder by yourself and it's your time to shine, that is when you unleash the dragon. That is when you show them what you got. But when you're in a group and you're in a group setting, you're not going to try, this is not, you're not going to win this race. If you win the race, you lost.

Nole (25:20.288)

One of the things you'll see in the, in the old school CrossFit community, I'm sure this is still a thing, but I'm not in that world, but we just saw this up at the fire program at the last class. If you're in a situation where you have to make say a run and for some reason it's kind of a timed thing, there's a race and you, you dust everybody. You end up crossing the finish line and there's minutes to spare. The right answer is to immediately begin to jog back to the back of the formation.

Go pick up that slowest guy and run alongside of him, encouraging him to make it so that he can make the timeframe. So if you're in a position where you're that guy and you're that physically fit, yeah, you can demonstrate it, but don't do it to like flaunt it or be in everybody's face. Turn around and go bring somebody with you. And that will speak volumes about your character. Hey, yeah, you're fast. Awesome. Great. We love that. But what do we love more in the fire department? We love your attitude. We love the fact that you're not leaving somebody behind. You're a team player.

Kevin (26:18.798)

Amen. I do like what Ruano talks about is work hardening. He programs into his programming, like work hardening, doing hard work. Because I'll say, like when we talk about being physically fit, that's only the PT. The PT is from like six to seven in the morning. The rest of the day is grinding out on what we call the grinder with ladders and hose lays and just physical manual labor. So.

there is some work hardening there that like, okay, great, you're great at exercising, but can you wear this gear for the next eight to nine hours? And can you do this over and over and over and over again? So I just keep that in mind, like you might be great at a workout or you might need bad, but I've seen guys that are not great at exercising or great at grinding it out and they did fine in that great careers, right? And so.

Nole (27:09.344)

Hmm.

Kevin (27:10.414)

That's something to keep in mind is that it is a marathon and you want to be able to get through the entire day, not just the PT.

Nole (27:19.104)

Yeah, and I'll say to that point, when I came into the tower, I had not done any kind of training in gear, even close to turnouts. I was basically physically fit because of my job as an asphalt guy. I was working hard for a crazy long hour. So I had a base level of fitness and I had been running and training up. But when I put on all the gear, it smoked me. Like I literally had one moment at probably like day three where I almost physically passed out.

and had to go off to the side and take my jacket off. It was super embarrassing. I thought they were going to kick me out. But know if you come up against that, we're back to the pre -made decision not to quit. Know that you will acclimatize to that and you just have to push through and your body will get used to it. It's going to be rough probably for most of you early on, but it's rough for everybody. Don't think it's that way the whole time. By the time you get to the end, is it still hard? Yeah. Are you still hot? Yes. But your body's acclimatized to it. You can absolutely do it.

and not feel like you're gonna just straight up pass out and die. So know that you'll get through that portion as long as you stick with it, right? If you quit, you never will.

Kevin (28:17.934)

Yeah.

Kevin (28:23.31)

A couple suggestions to acclimate faster. I was very lucky to have like Joe Flahaven and some other guys that were already on the job that said, Hey, you need you. We typically work out in shorts and a t -shirt and a 70 degree gym is that that has to end. You have to work out and make yourself uncomfortable. Being uncomfortable is wearing sweatshirts, wearing couple sweatshirts, wearing sweats, sweating it out, working out outside, being in the sun.

Nole (28:26.72)

Yeah.

Nole (28:36.768)

Mm -hmm.

Kevin (28:51.374)

Like all those things I think helped me be acclimate a little bit better. Right. And so I do suggest that and along, we really didn't know as much as we do about electrolytes. Now, they just say, hydrate, you gotta drink, you gotta drink water. You gotta drink a gallon of water the night before. Well, you'll just be pissing like a race horse if you don't put any element or you won't putting electrolytes in there. So we highly suggest like, yes, you need to hydrate, hydrate or die, but throw in electrolytes and you're going to have to electrolyte during the, during the tower at.

Nole (29:01.728)

yeah.

Nole (29:11.488)

Mm -hmm.

Kevin (29:20.078)

at your break, at your lunch. But I do think if you do some sauna work, you do some, you work out outside in the rain, in the sun, in the whatever, in as much gear as you can possibly have, it'll be a little bit easier.

Nole (29:35.744)

Since you brought up electrolytes, let's talk a little bit about nutrition. During the tower is not the time to think about leaning out or putting on muscle or losing weight. If you're going into the tower with a bit of extra weight on you and you're intending to use that for losing weight, you will lose the weight, but you should not go in with that in mind. You need to be consuming plenty of calories. And they should be good quality calories, obviously.

Kevin (29:45.966)

No. No.

Nole (30:05.92)

When I went through the tower, we had, we brought our own lunches. I think they probably still do that. at some, at some point during the COVID thing, they were catering meals for those guys, but I think those days are over. And of course, depending on where you are, it's going to be different, but make sure you bring enough food and that it's good quality, fresh food. You're not eating fried chicken or whatever, cause you've got to feel yourself for that, for that afternoon. And then when you're done at the end of the day, make sure you're consuming lots of good, healthy calories. Do not shortchange your body because it's a,

Like Kevin said, there's a lot of work hardening going on. It's a physically demanding thing. You may only do one workout in the day, but the entire rest of the day is going to be super arduous. So consume those calories, drink that water, supplement with electrolytes for sure. That's something we didn't do when I went through the tower. I didn't even know about that. I probably drank a Gatorade every once in a while, which makes me shudder to think about at this point, but.

Kevin (30:59.214)

I did have a little bit of the triathlon background in my days. And when we did in triathlons, we had goose, you know, like those goose and they had caffeine and some electrolytes, but a ton of sugar too. But, but I did, I kept those goose in my turnout pockets. I kept them in my lunch bag. I kept them all over the place and I would just rip those things off and suck it down. And nobody had saw one second of it. So there's ways you can get around it by not like having to actually open up an element packet and pour it in a water bottle.

Nole (31:02.016)

Yeah, okay.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm -hmm.

Nole (31:26.208)

Mix it in, yeah.

Kevin (31:27.342)

But, and they're giving electrolytes now and we have Evan Hawke was out there that's doing a much better job than when Noel and I were there. But yes, you have to think about that and you have to prepare for it.

Nole (31:37.152)

Yeah, because you don't want to be in a position, it's already hard enough, and you don't want to be in a position where you're hungry or you've eaten bad quality food so you feel sleepy or just bloated or whatever, and you certainly do not ever want to put yourself in a position where you're dehydrated. It's easy to not do that by just drinking enough and taking electrolytes, so don't put yourself in that position.

Kevin (31:59.79)

So I want to talk about response to failure and almost expecting it because no one had the opportunity for about nine years to teach the AutoX out at our academy. And some of the things I'm not going to generalize a generation, but I had seen in the last few years more of a talk back, more of a, they want to be heard of why they didn't, why they failed one thing. They wanted to explain my advice to you.

Nole (32:23.328)

Mm -hmm. Yeah.

Kevin (32:28.846)

is to take your lick and just, just own it. Extreme ownership. You, you failed. You didn't do something right. It's to just take your lick and say, sir, yes, sir. I'll do better next time and move on and don't dwell on it. Don't try to explain yourself. Don't say that your ankle sore or that you did whatever your thing is. It definitely seems to be more of a thing recently that maybe the young want to be heard or explained or whatever.

That's to me, that's not what you do. I would just say, just own the failure and move on and do better next time.

Nole (33:07.584)

When I first, this is not the tower, but this is something that could happen in the tower. But when I first got into the field, I'm on probation and we were cleaning up after some drill and we're folding salvage covers, which if you don't know is a giant canvas, quote unquote, waterproof tarp, giant thing. And I'm folding it in the way that I was taught in the tower. And some salty engineer is standing over there with a big lip or end and a huge mustache. And he's like, Hey boot, what's the name of that fold you're doing? And I said, sir,

Kevin (33:32.11)

Yes.

Nole (33:37.408)

It's called the Z -Fold, sir." And he said, what? And he said, that's not what it's called. It's called the, I don't know what he called it, the Francis Ford -Fold. And that's one of those moments where I could have stood up and said, well, sir, in the tower, they taught me it was called the Z -Fold, blah, blah, blah. And here's why, because see, it looks like a Z. That doesn't go well. So what do you do? And I had been taught this for my time in the military. You say, sir, yes, sir.

Kevin (33:58.286)

No.

Nole (34:08.224)

and you just take it because what does it matter? Like that, yeah, that's not technically a failure, but kind of it is because he thought I had the wrong name, but you just take it and just move on. And that deescalates the situation. It makes them see that you have ownership. That's obviously a silly example, but a hundred percent, you got to just take it. Don't explain yourself. They don't want to hear it.

Kevin (34:10.382)

Take your lick. Yeah.

Kevin (34:24.942)

That's great.

And.

And we happen to work for a large prominent department where a lot of guys come from other fire departments. The worst thing you can do is say, we didn't do that at my last thing, or we called it something. Right. We are. Well, you chose to be here. So take your leg, shut your mouth. You're going to be better than most when you actually get on the floor, but in the academy setting or on probation, just close your mouth, say, sir, yes, sir. And move on. That experience will help you dramatically down the line, but.

Nole (34:36.352)

Mm -hmm.

Nole (34:39.968)

Right. Where I came from, we did this, yeah.

Kevin (35:00.398)

This is not the time.

Nole (35:02.048)

And I will say this too, keep in mind that the cadre that you're working under, again, they've been doing this a long time. They probably know exactly what your reason is for not completing the task. They probably know you have a bad ankle. They might know you came from some other fire department out back East or whatever. They probably know all that and they don't need you to tell them.

Are they still going to ask you or challenge you as to why you didn't complete the task? Yeah. But they might actually be doing it to see how you respond. So don't worry about it. Again, it's back to one of those things like let that stuff handle itself. Don't worry about it. You can only control how you respond. And there's really only one right way to do that.

Kevin (35:46.958)

Yes. So I want to take a tactical pause. These are all phenomenal things and I think they're very tangible, but I want to also talk about the big picture thing is that I was married, Noel was married. We have wives at home and we talked about, everyone talks about, you hear this thing in culture of you want to have work life balance, this 50 50 split, right? It's been my experience that there are seasons in life. There's seasons of work. There's seasons of.

family, their seasons of things. And this is a season that what is it 16, 18 weeks that I'm going to suggest to you that it's not going to be the greatest work life balance. This is going to be a season of intense work where you're all, most all of your focus is going to be getting through each day, one day at a time, and then preparing for the next day. And you're going to have such a limited, limited window of time.

that I think you have to prepare your wife. You have to prepare your family. You have to prepare even your, if you're not married, your parents or loved ones or whoever it may be, that this is an intense season of life that I'm gonna have to fully focus on. And that hopefully once I get through this intense season, then I can pour back into you. But I would try to prep yourself and prep the loved ones around you to know that this is almost a selfish season. How else would you say that?

Nole (36:47.104)

Mm -hmm.

Nole (37:14.721)

No, I think you're saying it perfectly. And I love the highlight of preparing your spouse or your family or your close friends, because you will not be able to give them the time and attention that you normally do. You're just not going to be physically able to. And if you try, it's going to be detrimental to your success in the tower. You just don't have the time. You're not going to have the energy. And you don't want to have that conversation, especially with your wife, two weeks in, when she feels ignored.

and you're exhausted and collapsing into bed when you get home every day. Like you need to have those conversations beforehand and have that understanding. I think, I think that's spot on.

Kevin (37:54.926)

And until we did have those conversations and my wife was incredible. I lived at an apartment complex right next to our Academy out in Pomona while she lived in another place. And that what she would do is she would bring lasagnas to the apartment complex and we'd get off and come home just, just disgusting. Take the turnouts off, run in this house. And there was this hot lasagna waiting on the table and she said, I love you. Go get them tomorrow.

I could run through walls after that. You know what I mean? And we, we, it was like Christmas. We had a hot lasagna waiting for us. Right. And so, but in turn, like she knew that she had to help me and I needed her help. And so whatever, whatever you do and however that looks, just know that it's going to be an intense season. And the full focus for you is probably going to be on this Academy.

Nole (38:42.336)

Yeah. And I love that you highlight that because it is appropriate, right? You're shooting for a goal. You have this career goal that you want to go be a part of this career of service, this awesome line of work. And it takes sacrifice to get there. So it's appropriate. There's nothing wrong with that.

Kevin (39:03.278)

And I always remember Jason Teeter, our buddy who helps run the fire up academy. He's been on the podcast. He had been working for LA city for a number of years at the point. And I was asking him all these things. What should I use for nutrition? What should I do? How do you do the ladders? How do you do all that? What, what fitness program? And he was like, what's up with your wife? What's she going to do? Where's she going to live? How is she going to do it? Is she going to be, you know, and he, he asked me all the personal stuff about the around my, and I had, I wasn't prepared for that.

And so he made me prepared to say, you need to have those conversations. And I know you, you're fit. You've made the decision. You're not going to quit. Those things are, you're going to be fine, but what's not going to be okay is if you don't prep the wife and you don't have these conversations and you don't, cause she's like, she's not going to see you for four months.

Nole (39:51.04)

Yeah, as usual, Jason is quite wise.

Kevin (39:54.99)

is.

Nole (39:57.088)

When you're in the tower and you're dealing with whatever situations with the cadre, you always want to do your best to demonstrate that you're willing to work hard. Like Kevin was talking about with the hustle, meaning that you're, you're ready to work. You're ready to step in and do whatever task it takes, but that you also are willing and excited to learn. If you demonstrate that willingness to get involved in whatever task is going on.

and actually learn what's being taught, the cadre will notice that they will appreciate it. And because we're all human beings, they will give you more because that's why they're there. They want to teach you. They want to help you learn. And if you can demonstrate to them that you're there for that and that you appreciate it. And I don't mean that you're kissing up to them or anything like that, but if you, if you genuinely want to,

learn and be there and work hard, they will notice it and they will pour more into you. And that's going to benefit not just you, it's going to benefit the whole team. But it's something to remember that again, we're back to add another aspect of attitude, but you can absolutely impact your level of learning and your experience in the tower by how obvious you can make it that you're legitimately there to learn what these guys have. You appreciate the fact that they're giving their time and their effort to teach you what they know.

Kevin (41:24.27)

Yeah, that's great. And I would say be first. So if somebody's going to teach you how to pick an elevator when an elevator, if somebody's trapped inside of elevator, there's a way that you can pick the elevator open. I don't know about you know, but I was never taught that I've never learned that. I have no idea how to pick an elevator, but the common human nature is to stand back and say, well, I don't want to look stupid in front of this group of 20 guys in the academy and say, no.

Nole (41:27.616)

yeah.

Kevin (41:50.414)

The right response is if somebody goes, hey, somebody want to try this two speed door, here's the pick, go, yes, sir. And jump in, be first, go there. You are going to screw it up, but you're going to remember it. And nobody is going to fall to you for messing up the first time that you've never seen it and nobody's taught you. They are going to fall to you if you just stand in the back and do nothing and you never learned from it. And so I always just say, be first. Be first to volunteer to try that. Be first to be in the hose bed.

Nole (42:18.624)

Mm -hmm.

Kevin (42:18.702)

to clean it up, be first to whatever it is, if you show that's that attitude we say, is that you're willing to learn, you're willing to fail, and that is so noticeable.

Nole (42:29.28)

Yeah. And not that you should be motivated by other people's perceptions of you, but having been in a training environment with Kevin for nine years, we absolutely recognize almost immediately those individuals who are willing to work hard, strive and learn. They're willing to put themselves out there and the ones that are lingering in the back trying to avoid work, you know immediately. And those training cadre that you have in the tower and your other fellow recruits in the tower, they know the same thing.

So if you're the first guy up in the hose bed, it doesn't take very long for everybody to realize Kevin's the first guy in the hose bed every time I can't beat him. He's up there doing all the work, even though we're all tired. You want to be that guy and not because you're trying to show that you are that guy, but because you should be that guy, right? That should be who you are on the inside, but it's noticed the cadre will notice the other people on your team will notice. Be the first and not because you're trying to win or I can't stress that enough.

Kevin (43:26.062)

Yes, yes.

Nole (43:28.192)

You need to actually be that person. It can't be fake. If it's fake, it's not gonna last. You're gonna end up standing in the back. So get in the hose bit.

Kevin (43:36.494)

I love the idea of trying to find a way to enjoy the process while it's difficult. And I know, I think I've done that in life. That was my coping mechanism was maybe some challenges growing up or something. I would have humor and I would joke and I would do impressions, but that is a way to form camaraderie. And in our tower, we had the dungeon, the dungeon, the dungeon was the basement of the fire tower and it was moldy and just a brick.

Nole (43:41.472)

Hmm.

Kevin (44:05.006)

house and it had a rotten toilet in there, but it was ours and the cadre didn't go in there. Nobody else went in there. It was our dungeon, right? And in the dungeon, you know what I mean? That was our little safety tree. You know, we would start doing impressions of the cadre or laughing or doing, and man, did that bring guys together. We were laughing and we just went through this horrendous thing in 102 degree weather in turnouts and it sucks, but it was a way of breaking it up and enjoying the camaraderie of the guys.

Nole (44:19.104)

yeah, yeah.

Kevin (44:33.326)

enjoying what we're at, knowing that we had made it. We've always tried to do this and here we are. And if you can, I think that's fantastic to have that little time to shine and find a way to enjoy it.

Nole (44:46.048)

our locker room and showers was directly next to the Cadre's locker room and showers. It shared a thin wall and like a double -wide trailer type of thing. You know the spot. You've been there. And I don't remember how this started. I didn't start it. But at some point, we were in there one of the mornings early on after PT. We're all getting showered up and trying to get in uniform. And somebody starts singing Sweet Caroline. And then somebody else joins in. And before you know it,

Kevin (44:57.39)

yeah.

Nole (45:14.881)

all of us because everyone knows the most of the words, right? We can all sing that really loud. So we're all singing at the top of our lungs, huge smiles on our faces. We're having a great time. And we're about, I don't know, less than 30 seconds into that just regalia. And we hear.

Kevin (45:16.078)

We're Caroline...

Kevin (45:30.478)

no. Busted.

Nole (45:31.328)

on the wall and the cadre, they're yelling at us, shut up, cease and desist. And what do we do? We start singing even louder, dude. And then it became this thing for the rest of the tower. We would do it almost every day and they would yell at us and it was, it was a great time. They were enjoying it. I think too, I don't know. It didn't matter. We were having fun. And so there are times and places for that. And yes, you need to engage in that kind of stuff because.

Kevin (45:38.03)

Keep louder, louder baby.

Nole (45:56.48)

You're only going to do this probably once in your life, maybe twice if you pay to go to a private academy before you get hired. You might as well enjoy it, right? It literally is probably a once in a lifetime thing. And there are parts of it that are pretty rough, pretty hard, but it doesn't all have to be that way. And you're going to have memories of this thing. You might as well make some good ones. Very good point.

Kevin (46:17.102)

Absolutely and along those lines Self -talk is a thing. You know what I mean? I'm not into one of those guru things but I I absolutely was cognizant that I needed to maintain a personal like a Something about it because if I'm honest, I woke up and it's Groundhog's Day. My feet were wet I had the blisters. I was sore. I was tired, but I had to say this is the best they ever had Can't wait for another one. I was lying to myself, but I had to say that I

Nole (46:21.184)

Mm.

Kevin (46:44.782)

And I would put on tunes that made me happy and I would smile and I'd say, what's up? No, let's go get them today. But I, I, that's who I have to be. That's why, because I'm, I'm trying to gas myself up because if my nature is to be bummed out, depressed and say my back hurts, my feet hurt, why am I doing this? I should just, you know what I mean? And I have to get out of my nature and try to be that positive and almost fake it till you make it. You know what I mean?

Nole (47:09.44)

Hmm. Yes. Yes.

Kevin (47:11.886)

Because it's infectious if you're the negative guy and you say, this sucks, that cadre's after me, this guy doesn't believe it, I did that perfect and he failed me and it's infectious and it bleeds into everybody and before you know it, everybody's complaining and everybody's not enjoying the process and they're not singing Sweet Caroline and the thing. So I think you gotta be the one to break that infection.

Nole (47:35.232)

For sure. Take that position of leadership and lead the way. Speaking of bad cadre members, this is a little inside baseball information for you. This may or may not happen in your tower, but I found that in my experience, we're in the tower. I'm going through with my group of guys and there is one specific training captain that, and I'm just not going to sugar coat it, we hated this guy. He was awful.

Kevin (47:43.214)

Mmm.

Kevin (48:01.39)

Mmm.

Nole (48:04.704)

What I found out later was that we did not hate this guy. He was an awesome, wonderful captain and a great dude. He was playing a role. And the only reason I share that with you, cause that's kind of some inside baseball and that might mess up what they're doing, but I want you to know that going in because if you run into somebody where you're just like, this guy hates me, he's being awful. There might be some reason that you're unaware of that that's being done. And it might be part of their training protocol.

Kevin (48:06.734)

I know who you're talking about.

Kevin (48:16.782)

Yes.

Nole (48:34.112)

Or it might not be, but either way, just know that what's presented to you as these people who are teaching you, a lot of that is, it's almost like, not like they're acting, but they're filling a role. And so the man that's actually behind that might be very different than what he's presenting because he's trying to do a job. And if his purpose is to weed out some of the weaker members or to...

get some responses out of people by putting them in stressful situations because that's what's going to happen when you're on the job. It might be helpful to know that that's a possibility. So I'm not promising you that's going to happen, but I know it's something that they did in the military and they did it in my tower as well. So just know if there's a guy that you don't like, he might end up being your favorite dude by the end.

Kevin (49:26.062)

No doubt. There's a couple of things I would say is to not judge a book by its cover. And this goes along the line of like managing your personal integrity, right? I always say like who you are, who you hang out with, right? And there, we have a large Academy. There's like usually 56 guys in the Academy. There's going to be a party crew. There's going to be a group.

Nole (49:32.768)

Hmm.

Kevin (49:50.382)

of young party boys that are going to go out drinking afterwards, or they're going to go do whatever. And we've seen these guys get fired, right? They've seen them get, right? And so obviously you want to be liked. Obviously you want to be one of the per the one of the people in the, in the, in the Academy group that is liked and you're doing the right job. But I would say stick with the winners. Look at the guys that are the first in the hose bed. They're going home to study, that are calling their wives, that are you have to me gravitate towards them. And so I have this funny story we had.

Nole (49:56.608)

Yeah.

Kevin (50:19.854)

I'm 32 going into the tower. I get an apartment with six of the guys of the Academy. Nobody knows anybody. So there's six guys in a two bedroom, three guys on a floor in one room, three guys on a floor in the other room. And one of the guys, it just says name, age and his phone number. It was 19 years old. It was Brian Noss. And I called him up and I'm like, Hey dude, I'm gonna let you know right now, dude, I'm 32. This means the world to me. I left this other job.

Nole (50:39.136)

Kevin (50:48.078)

I can't have you out here partying like a 19 year old, listening to techno all night, like having people over dude, like I'm married. I left my wife. Like if you're going to be with me, like be, you know, be solid. Well, about two weeks into it, I realized that he's number one in our class and he's the one telling me you better turn down your music. You probably need to study a little bit more. You suck on like you maybe make a little too many jokes. You know what I mean? And he ended up being top of our.

Nole (50:51.936)

You

Nole (51:04.64)

Hahaha.

Nole (51:08.96)

Stop messing around.

Kevin (51:16.654)

class in everything, right? And, and so, and I was the one being the Jaguars listening to music all night, hooting in the hollering and not studying or whatever. So it's like, I would say I'm, I was super grateful that the house that we ended up being, I was the bozo on the bus. They were all phenomenal and Kalanis, Justin, you know, like these guys, but, but like, just know, like I would say stick with the winners. I was very lucky. I was already in, in there with those guys.

Nole (51:18.112)

Such a good dude.

Nole (51:22.28)

You

Kevin (51:43.854)

And I'm so glad it was because those are the guys that were putting in work.

Nole (51:47.872)

That's so good. This one's a little bit more broad, but anytime, in my opinion, that you're going to go into a world of first responder, military, law enforcement, you need to take a bit of a tactical pause and really assess, what does my faith look like? Where's my integrity at? What are my moral values? And why would you need to do that?

The reason you need to do that is because you're going into, if you have that as a background, which if you're listening to this podcast, you do at some level, I'm sure of it. But you're going into a world where there's going to be times and places and scenarios that are very harsh and very anti all that stuff. Like what Kevin's talking about. There will be groups of guys that are like, that are literally going out to party on nights that you're showing up for the tower the next day. And if that's not who you are, if that's not your character, and it shouldn't be,

because you're going to end up failing out and it's not the way you live your life. But if that's not who you are, you need to go into these situations knowing that I'm going to be true to my personal integrity. I'm going to be true to my faith. I'm going to be true to my moral values. And it may be less obvious in the tower because you're in such a confined, controlled environment. But when you get out in the field, those types of things will eventually come and you will eventually be challenged. And it's either go with the crowd or go with who you said that you are. So just...

keep that in mind. And of course that exists in all kinds of other arenas in the world, right? It's not just the fire police, military guys that are running amok, but it does seem to be amplified in those worlds of first responders.

Kevin (53:29.806)

Yeah, and I think again, you have to have some level of preparation on the moral side, on the integrity side before you go in because for me, all the daily things that I do to keep me on a straightened path were erased. So like in a perfect world today, if I wake up, I sit in the sun, I do some breathing, I read the Bible, I pray, I meditate, go sit in an ice bath afterwards.

Nole (53:35.456)

Hmm.

Nole (53:42.688)

Mm. Well, you can't do them anymore.

Kevin (53:55.054)

None of those things are happening that morning. You have to wake up at dark 30, 4, 4 30 in the morning and you're rushing down to the thing and your day doesn't end till late at night. I didn't have time to do any of these things that keep me normally on a path. And so I think you just, I had to go with, I know I've put some work into this area. I know that I'm, I've filled the bank up a little bit because I'm going to be depleting that as we get through this, because I just didn't have time to do any other thing.

Nole (54:25.696)

I want to go back to the teamwork aspect of being in the tower. We've touched on a couple of times, but I want to make sure we really hammer this one home.

Regardless of what you think about the fellow people that you're going through this tower with because just like Kevin said you don't want to judge a book by its cover and If you've ever been through anything like this before you will you will find yourself thinking That guy's not gonna make it. I don't get along with that guy. He looks arrogant. He looks awesome He looks like he's gonna make it don't do that look at it from a perspective of hey, we're all here We've all got the same goal. Let's figure out a way to work together as a team and

let's try to get every single one of us through this thing. Let's not lose anybody. That should be your goal. And it should be a stated goal. And naturally, leaders are going to rise to the surface of your group. That might be you. It might not be. If it's not you and that's not your personality, or there's someone who's stronger or more well -suited for that, then support them and foster just that environment of teamwork. And hey, regardless of what happens, we're trying to get everybody through this. It's not every man for himself.

I know I already said that, but it's easy in these type of scenarios to look at the importance of it for you personally, because it is dramatically important, right? You're looking at potentially the career that you're going to have for the rest of your life that's going to provide for your family. It's a really big, important, sometimes scary deal. But...

There's a bunch of other guys who are in that same position. And if you band together and do it as a team, you're all more likely to be successful.

Kevin (56:04.782)

Man, spot on. Spot on. Be a teen guy.

Nole (56:09.183)

Gotta be a team guy.

Nole (56:13.632)

There's one more on here that I thought we could touch on.

side note that I'm going to edit out. I didn't look at these notes with the idea of recording a podcast based on them. I just read through them and thought these are all great. I would have restructured these so that they were better for actually recording an episode because some of them are redundant. And so anyway, I apologize for that. Maybe AI is terrible.

Kevin (56:24.974)

Hmm.

Kevin (56:43.726)

Okay, I get it. We talked about getting fit and preparing for it, but I would absolutely give a shout out and endorse anybody that's looking to get in the fire service or become an FSA is our buddy Chris Ruano. He has some amazing program called Prep and Defend and it's so applicable to the fire service. If you follow that, you are going to have no problems going in. So that's Chris Ruano. You can look him up on Prep and Defend.

And maybe we can put a link to the show notes to his program, but it's impressive. So if you don't know where to start and you don't have your own thing, I would absolutely recommend doing this thing. It's a little app. It says what you do for the day and it's cyclical and you just follow that and you'll be good.

Nole (57:31.84)

I agree and I will link it in the show notes.

Kevin (57:38.414)

So when you talk about sleep and sleep importance, I want to get specific on this. Are you saying we've known, like, are you setting a time that you always go to bed and always wake up? Are you trying to get sweet quantity saying I'm getting eight to 10 hours? Like, what are you talking about?

Nole (57:41.856)

Hmm.

Nole (57:57.792)

Well, I mean, if you've got the time and you've got a little bit of resources, the first thing I would do is go out and buy some sort of wearable that tracks your sleep. So whether that's a whoop, a aura ring, a Garmin watch, some of the smartwatches do it. I know the Samsung watches I've had in the past would do it. I'm sure the Apple watches do it. What that will enable you to do right up front is to basically get a baseline of what your sleep quality is like.

because you can't always get eight hours. You should shoot for, you know, seven to eight hours. But the quality of that is actually oftentimes more important than the duration, especially when you're in a scenario where you can't get enough. And the way that this has helped me is I know because I track my sleep that if I eat late at night, whether that's

popcorn or a pint of ice cream, my sleep suffers. My numbers drop off because my body's digesting. It can't rest as much. So I would say that's probably number one is the find out what your quality is and then start trying to dial in some things. So, maybe I'm drinking caffeine too late. Let me try to adjust that and see if that helps. So kind of figure that out to find out where your where your best score quote unquote is. And then of course, if you can't do that or that's too expensive or it's too late.

to start that, then yeah, exactly what you said. Go to bed at the same time every night as much as possible and get up at the same time in the morning so that your body can get used to that.

Kevin (59:36.302)

Yeah, and I would say to add to that, I think that's all fantastic is to start acclimating to an early rise and going to bed earlier because for me it was a 4 a 430 start all the time. And then, you know, if you I tended to be a night owl as a bartender back in the day and I would go to bed late, watch movies late and I'd go to bed one or two in the morning or whatever. Well, that's not going to work for you prepping for the fire department. So if you go to bed at 2 a and you wake up at noon.

Nole (59:41.888)

yeah.

Nole (59:47.328)

Mm.

Kevin (01:00:04.238)

It's going to be a hard adjustment from waking up at four or five and then grinding out. So I would say start acclimating yourself that way is earlier and earlier going in. I know Peter Tia and have Andrew Huberman talk quite a bit about getting some morning sunlight in your eye and getting that afternoon sunlight to help set your circadian rhythm up to where you could be literally like awake during the sunrise and go to bed when it starts.

Nole (01:00:19.584)

Mm -hmm. Yes.

Kevin (01:00:32.238)

Electrolytes you said it again, but who do you recommend? What do you like? What are you using?

Nole (01:00:32.512)

when I -

Nole (01:00:37.216)

Dude, you know us, you know me, I love element LMNT. Their stuff is great, there's no sugar in there. It's got a really good ratio of magnesium, potassium, and most importantly, sodium, and a little bit of stevia sweetener in there, flavoring the watermelon one is delicious, it's so good.

Kevin (01:00:56.558)

Now if you're broke and you they are expensive there are other ways you can do it You can put some Himalayan salt in a big jug of water. You can do other little salt and magnesium in water Even the old -school boxers they put pickle juice to they drink pickle juice So if you're broke, that's it. I think elements by far better than pickle juice, but I know a lot of people that use that

Nole (01:01:11.68)

Pickle juice, yeah. Yeah, that's good stuff.

Nole (01:01:20.416)

I think I saw it in a newsletter from Element recently. It might still be on their website, but if you look it up, you can find it. There's recipes on how to go to the grocery store and buy the stuff and make your own. It's not going to taste as good because you're going to be using salt, like Kevin said. You're going to be using something called no salt, which is potassium that you can buy in a shaker on the shelf. And then you're going to find a way to put some magnesium in there or take magnesium supplements. And then you're good to go. So yes, you can do it for way cheaper.

than a prepackaged deal. But you gotta do it. For sure.

Kevin (01:01:54.414)

I would advise you, we're talking about this kind of stuff, if at all, you know a fireman or you know us, you can reach out to us and we can connect you to somebody in your area or even us. I think it's wise to try to go to get with a guy and see if you can get some turnouts on, try to maybe pull some hoes and do a firefighter style workout with firefighters. Because it's always a humbling experience for me when I first did a few firefighter type workouts.

Nole (01:02:01.952)

Hmm.

Nole (01:02:14.72)

Yeah.

Kevin (01:02:21.326)

You're using different muscles, you're using different things and getting a bro pump in the gym. That is eye opening to me and I knew exactly what I needed to work on after one humbling with at a station with the guys.

Nole (01:02:32.192)

Yeah, that's super good. If you have the opportunity to do that, do it. And you know where we are. You know how to get in touch with us. If you're anywhere near us, we'll hang out with you. We'll work out with you. We're not going to hang out. We're going to work. I had an experience in the tower, and I want to touch on this before we wrap it up. I was commuting from Myriada to the tower, which is in Pomona. It was terrible. And

Kevin (01:02:38.638)

Always. I'm gonna break you off.

Kevin (01:02:56.622)

terrible.

Nole (01:02:59.04)

I was about a month in and the chief who was running training at that time called me into his office. I thought I was getting kicked out, although I didn't know why, but you don't get called in the chief's office. So he brings me in and he says, he's pointing at this piece of paper. He's like, is this your address? I was like, Sir, yes, sir. Well, I said it more respectfully than that. That sounded really lackadaisical, but anyway, he's like, well, where are you actually staying? Cause he thought I was staying at the crest where you stayed the little apartment complex there.

I said, so sir, that's where I'm living with my wife and my kids. And he's like, you're commuting every day. And I said, yeah. And he's like, how long does it take you? And I told him, I don't remember what it was, like an hour and a half or something. And he's like, you are going to fail this tower. If you do not move closer to the tower, you cannot commute. You can't be leaving that early. You can't be getting home that late. You're going to fail if you don't move closer to the tower. And I just said, sir, with all due respect, I'm broke.

I don't have any money. I can't afford to move. I've got my family. I can't do anything else. This is the only thing I could do." And he repeated it. He's like, you are going to fail this tower. Now, what I want to say to you is that if there are people in your life who want to tell you things like that, that's not the first time in my life someone's told me I couldn't do something. Take it with a grain of salt, listen to them, and try to assess whether or not you think they're correct.

Kevin (01:04:03.086)

Thanks bro. Thanks bro.

Nole (01:04:23.584)

So if they're telling you, for example, that you're obese and that you can't physically pass the tower, look at yourself. If you're obese, maybe you should take that advice and start trying to work on it. But if it's something like, you know, you just don't have the right attitude, you're not a hard enough worker, you're a quitter, you're driving from too far, whatever, something like that, and it's something you can't control, don't let that get to you. It's back to what Kevin was talking about with the self -talk and the mindset.

If there's nothing that you can do about it and you're in this, you're in the situation, you're going and it's time, just go do it. Shocker. I made it through. The guy was, the guy was wrong. Was it, was it incredibly difficult? Yeah. Do I understand why he was saying that? Yes. Would I have loved to live closer? Of course, but I didn't have the option. And so you make it work.

Kevin (01:05:12.622)

I love it. Don't listen to it. And if you know you can do it and it might be a little bit harder than the next guy, but you can do it and it's best for you, then do it.

Nole (01:05:12.896)

Don't listen to the haters.

Nole (01:05:22.144)

I think what I should say, because I brought up the, your overweight aspect, don't put yourself in a compromising situation like that if you don't have to. So if you're listening to this right now and you've got a tower date, or if you're trying to get a tower date and you know you could probably lose a few pounds, get into shape, well then of course, like we've been saying, you need to start working on that right now. Maybe if you know you're going to have a tower date, maybe you don't choose to live in Marietta when you know the tower's in Pomona, right? Maybe you think those types of things through, so.

Put yourself in a better position, but if it comes up and there's something that seems insurmountable, hey, it's not.

Kevin (01:06:01.312)

Yes. A couple of things before we'd wrap to that I would suggest. I get this question a lot. It's like I have a pre -existing, I have shin splints or I have rolled an ankle. I think I can get through, but I'm not sure if I can get through the academy that starts in two weeks. So this is also obviously so case to case, but most large fire departments will allow you to defer and go to the following class.

Nole (01:06:09.184)

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Nole (01:06:27.84)

Mm -hmm.

Kevin (01:06:28.078)

You do run the risk of them not having a following class or that being pushed back for another year. But I would always advise you if you have some injury that you are not a hundred percent on that you don't know if you're going to be able to handle the load, which is significant of a fire Academy. I was asked them if there was an option to defer to the next class. And the same token is if you were obese and you didn't have the time to put in the work and you were too large.

Nole (01:06:54.176)

Mmm. Yeah.

Kevin (01:06:57.39)

I think it's worse to go in and fail than it is to then try to defer to the next class. Now you have to make that decision. If you work for a smaller fire department and they say, no, there's no deferrals and we have no idea when the next academy is. Well, now you have to have a decision to make. Now, can you suck it up and figure it out? Because that's not an option. But I do say if most large departments can defer or go something, if you have some injury that's going to not make you do great.

And the second thing I would say is Noel would know way more about this, but feet care is important.

So we had these issued boots and I got hired as an FSA and I showed up to the FSA pack hike test run with brand new whites and I was just completely bloody mess at the end of the pack hike. So I would just say if you're going to go to a wildland academy or you're going to any type of academy that's going to do that kind of thing that requires wildland boots, you're going to have to invest borrow.

Nole (01:07:40.352)

Hmm.

Nole (01:07:50.4)

Yep.

Kevin (01:08:04.206)

money or do something to buy those boots and break them in prior to the academy or prior to whatever you're about to start. If you show up on day one with brand new boots, it's going to be horrendous.

Nole (01:08:16.)

It will be. Yep. Yes. the feet. Same thing with like running shoes. Like if you're coming into the tower and you're thinking, it'd be a great idea to buy a brand new pair of shoes before this tower starts. Don't do it. Not a good idea. You're going to. Yeah.

Kevin (01:08:30.19)

Not a good idea. Breaking your running shoes, breaking your other shoes, breaking everything that you have so that, and my only pro tip that somebody from the camps taught me is he had a pair of regular socks. And then on top of that was a pair of dress socks, whatever that material that men's dress socks are made out of. I don't know if it's nylon or something like that, but it was the sock on sock instead of just, just rubbing on your thing. And I got far less blisters and my feet were

far better at the end of the day. And on the same line, so if you do that, I think that's helpful. And I also towards the end of the tower, I was getting like this weird shit splat stuff running around in steel tub and I started wearing compression sleeves on my calves. And those compression sleeves, yes, they added more heat, which I didn't want, but it did feel like I was a little bit more energetic at the end of the day having those compression sleeves.

Nole (01:09:11.84)

Mm -hmm.

Nole (01:09:28.832)

Hey, since we're talking about wardrobe stuff, something that I think is a very small and seemingly unnecessary thing, but can be incredibly helpful, at least in my opinion, for the way I feel about this kind of stuff, bring an extra t -shirt or two so that when you're having your lunch break, you can throw on a dry shirt and then a dry pair of socks, in the middle of the day.

Kevin (01:09:31.182)

here we go.

Thank you.

Kevin (01:09:48.718)

Yes.

Nole (01:09:53.664)

It's a small little boost, but that can be a big boost to your morale. So bring some extra socks, bring an extra t -shirt, because you're going to be sweating quite a lot. And you will have a break at some point to eat a meal and you could probably throw that on and that'll, you're going to soak it immediately anyway. But it's that momentary just like, okay, I feel good. I feel fresh, ready to go. It's helpful.

Kevin (01:10:12.494)

Yeah, a couple of you savages might need a little deodorant refresher too, because these boys stink, dude. There's a couple of them. I'm like, have you worn deodorant in a month? You just reek. I wouldn't suggest the man spray guys. If you're an Axe body spray guy, you got problems already. So I would just not suggest the Axe body spray. But maybe a couple of you stinkers throw on a little Dio.

Nole (01:10:17.088)

Nole (01:10:25.92)

Mm, mm, mm, no. Mm.

Nole (01:10:37.344)

Yeah, leave the cologne at home, but yeah. Teamwork, dude. The D .O.'s back to the teamwork. You gotta keep the team first in your mind and priorities, which means you can't smell bad. Bad for the team.

Kevin (01:10:39.182)

The cologne guy.

Kevin (01:10:46.03)

That's right.

Yeah, brush your teeth too. Doing that, you're doing firefighter survival and the guy's on top of you and he's got rank breath, dude. Brush your teeth, bro. Yeah, basic hygiene too.

Nole (01:10:59.328)

That's not good. We're getting deep into the weeds now. The problem is, is that some of these young men that are going to these experiences, they need to be told that. No one ever told them to brush their teeth and wear deodorant, so somebody's got to tell them. Sad.

Kevin (01:11:16.686)

Yes. And then along those lines, have a bathroom strategy for the morning. You know, if you're a noon dumper, it's not going to work out great for you. You want to change your biological clock to an early flush. And on the, if you bring in your phone, the portal hell, if you bring in your phone and you have 45 minute dumps, it's not going to be a great few months for you.

Nole (01:11:23.712)

Nole (01:11:42.336)

No, that's not a possibility.

Kevin (01:11:43.982)

and maybe get some Metamucil on board and figure out how to do the power dump.

Well, we just erased that part. We've got off the reservation, but hopefully this has been helpful for you. Obviously any specific needs known are always willing to talk to anybody that helps. We are only two guys with our only two experiences. I'm sure other people will listen to this and say that all their information is wrong. But this is hopefully somewhat helpful to you if you have a tower coming up.

Nole (01:11:51.424)

No promises, dude. No promises.

Nole (01:12:13.792)

Mm -hmm.

Kevin (01:12:18.83)

And I would say ask all the people's opinions and make your own on what's going to work best for you exactly what Noah said. But we are a resource for you guys in the future. If you have something coming up and you want to pick somebody's brain, don't be afraid to reach out to us and we'd love to help.

Nole (01:12:35.872)

Yes we would.

Kevin (01:12:38.51)

This has been the Fire You Carry podcast.

Nole (01:12:42.816)

Nice closer there, very good.