Thank you for joining Reverend Ben Cooper & Simon Pinchbeck for #ChristianStraightTalk - our weekly podcast straight from the barrel of truth. They look at the character of a man and the character of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, as the Scripture says do not conform to the pattern of the world. The New Testament reference is the book of Romans chapter 5 verse 3 to verse 5.
Our Podcasts have now been published and can be purchased direct from Amazon.
We are on Apple Music, Amazon Music, I Heart Radio, Buzzsprout, Spotify, and multiple other Podcast platforms - you will find us under the title Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast.
Thank you for joining Reverend Ben Cooper & Simon Pinchbeck for #ChristianStraightTalk - our weekly podcast straight from the barrel of truth. They look at the character of a man and the character of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, as the Scripture says do not conform to the pattern of the world. The New Testament reference is the book of Romans chapter 5 verse 3 to verse 5.
Our Podcasts have now been published and can be purchased direct from Amazon.
We are on Apple Music, Amazon Music, I Heart Radio, Buzzsprout, Spotify, and multiple other Podcast platforms - you will find us under the title Reverend Ben Cooper's Podcast.
God bless. God bless you, wherever you are. Today we are in, we are gathering around the mics, we got the coffee, we've got the biscuits, and we've got the word of God. And we've got our good brother with us this morning, we've got Simon with us this morning, wherever you are, whatever your timezone is across the world was we gather around the word of God for this next podcast. And we have the title of just just your character, just your character. So wherever you are, just be the man or the woman that God has called you to be. Don't let and don't let anyone define you or shape you. But just be you. Yo, Simon.
Simon Pinchbeck:Good morning, Ben, it's great to be back with you. And it's great to be back across the mics. And in the middle of things, again, it's in the middle. But we'll get to what we we're not going to mess about we're not gonna fluff around, we're gonna go as we normally do, we're going to get straight into it, because Ben character is a word that is not used too much these days. And there's not too many people believe in it these days in it, you know, because you can be one thing one day, and another thing another can
Reverend Ben Cooper:be Ben this morning, and I can be Brenda this afternoon. You can be anything you want.
Simon Pinchbeck:You can and you know, we have politicians that say one thing one day, and so there's no character or integrity, you know, any
Reverend Ben Cooper:leadership? No, we're in a right old, funny old place in the UK. But the Bible talks about in times, and what it what it will be like so it shouldn't be taken us by surprise. But I think what we are experiencing is a lot of people are not struggling with Lucifer and Beelzebub and all the spiritual forces is just trying to work out actually. I am who I am. But the people around me won't really let me be who I am. Well, a character.
Simon Pinchbeck:I read something the other day, and if I can remember it without looking it up, it's Be careful what you think. Because your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your character. And your character becomes your destiny. So a lot of people just say what comes out the top of their head and say what like, you know, we'll just have a got no filter, Ben. That's correct. The character
Reverend Ben Cooper:is you got to be strong. The filter.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. And and we got to lead with our lives simply as Christians, we've got to lead with our lives, we've got to show people so we can't just say, you can't just say I'm a vicar and then you know, be down the pub. Why? Dan at Benton shop, always the old gambling became
Reverend Ben Cooper:the church is that when the times it certainly isn't right.
Simon Pinchbeck:You know, we need a few quid I'm gonna put a few quid on that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, no one's
Simon Pinchbeck:we've got, we got to lead with our lives. Character. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:how difficult is is that when, when so often we're being shaped. The Bible says that it don't conform to the pattern of this world. But have your mind because your mind is a very powerful place. So when you look at how we was created, and who created us and who we are in Christ, Jesus identity, I think that the word identity has been taken out of its true meaning within the circles of ministry and church and life. And it's just been batted around when actually who am I in Jesus?
Simon Pinchbeck:So, I mean, what you said there is a big one as Romans 12 Two don't conform to the pattern of this world and when we when you decide to make Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior, you then become a citizen as a citizen of the kingdom. And so we can give our hearts to Jesus but our minds need constant work, then I jump and our minds do need constant work. And, look, Romans five three to five tells us we can rejoice too when we run into problems and trials for we know that they helped develop our endurance and endurance develop strength character and character strengthens our confident hope of salvation. And this hope will not lead to disappointment for we know our dearly God loves us, because He has given us a Holy Spirit to fill our hearts with His love but character, strength of character strengthens our hope in in salvation. So, we have got to be men and women of integrity. And let our yes be yes or no be no as we follow in Jesus we've been so we've got to be very careful what we think what we say what our actions are. We got to lead with our life and your character. Ben should protect your words. So your character should be what you're, you know what you're saying? And if we look right at the very beginning of the Bible, Ben, Genesis 126 Got what the gods say.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He said, Let's make a church person. He didn't say, oh, no, sorry, wrong Bible Church to bring your one that one.
Simon Pinchbeck:Did he say, Mike
Reverend Ben Cooper:Lopes No, that's, that's the Men's Ministry one. Let's remake all types of genders. No, actually. God said, Let's make man. The key. A key word at the moment. To me in my heart is that when God said let's make man man is a very interesting word and you will find only in the scripture when Christ is referenced as a human being, he is referenced as a a man or a son. So when you talk about a man, the church talks about blokes a blog, what is a bloke?
Simon Pinchbeck:I think it's the church terminology for
Reverend Ben Cooper:a feminine man happens to be done it. There is something going on stranger Men's Ministry in churches where the word bloke is being bandied around when I've got to be careful what I say. But when you look at the biblical terminology, God said, Let's make man what is a man? When you study what a man now the scripture comes into the New Testament, it says, The man, Christ Jesus, the man, the man, it doesn't say the bloke of the the bloke, Jesus that doesn't fit that does not fit that is a weak terminology of a man. The world has many blokes, the world has many all types. But the scripture always refers to a man as a man or he. So
Simon Pinchbeck:I've just said a quick look about a definition of unblocked gambling we know it's a pretty it's an Australian slang for for for a man, you know?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. So it's not it's slang. So slang is a very dangerous area to be in when you're referring to biblical references. Because the Bible is not slang. The Bible is God's word. So if I if I change in the wording, I'm in a very dangerous position.
Simon Pinchbeck:So why do you why would you change that word?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because Gaby care to be really careful.
Simon Pinchbeck:You're never careful when
Reverend Ben Cooper:we have a lot of Minister is within the church that are trying to make a bloke when actually he's a man, a man, a bloke is a weaker or weaker representation as a man what we want is men. What is a man? Most men have fathers in some way. So a father is not a bloke. A bloke is a very weak terminology. And it is correct. It's a slang word. It's a loose word. It's loose, and it
Simon Pinchbeck:covers all men or
Reverend Ben Cooper:gender men, every type of you can
Simon Pinchbeck:each each man is his own man. And so a man God has put his put a character in a man in that man,
Reverend Ben Cooper:the word man is a very interesting and it is a strong biblical terminology.
Simon Pinchbeck:What does it say? Then? He says, in Genesis 126, right here, right on the first page of your Bible, let's make man in our own image.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So if God is the invisible God of Israel, and the scripture says in John chapter one, verse one, in the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God. So suddenly, we have the word at the beginning. And also we have Christ obviously, because Christ is the living word. And then the Bible says in John, again, the Bible keep referencing the Bible. John referenced the very interesting part it says, And the Word became flesh. And Jesus is referenced as the man, Christ Jesus. So the church is using very unbiblical language it's using, loose and a slip of the tongue language, when this is why we're in so much problem, problems with, I believe the church without realizing it is and lots of men's ministries are making blokes when a bloke is a lesser, a lesser. Good because it's warrior. It says in a man,
Simon Pinchbeck:let's make man in our own image. So let's make man in our own character.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Right? Now you're adding the character to the skin.
Simon Pinchbeck:So you go, let's make man in our own character, according to our likeness. Now, this is God, this, God is saying, Let's make him in our own character.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So what is the character I should be following God's character,
Simon Pinchbeck:so we should be seeking God or
Reverend Ben Cooper:God's character, God's God's what? Eddie can't get away from the combat of Jesus, and come back to the character of Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:And then he goes on to say, and let them have dominion over all the earth, all the bits and pieces. So they have power over all that. So yeah, the deal is here. You know, character comes before power, doesn't it? So let's make money in our own image, our character and give him and give him power. Right. So let's give him Pat didn't say let's give him power to shape the character. No, no, no, no. So you've got it's very, very dangerous with leaders who have power. Because then the misuse of power is, is probably one of the worst things that we will ever ever see on this planet. So you can give someone power and they misuse it. If you give someone power the wrong character. Yeah, we're in trouble. So to give someone power the right character, God's character with the image. Yeah. See one?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Well, moving forward, we're moving forward anyway. So what you're talking about is work. This is really serious because I believe a mass percentage of Men's Ministry is trying to feminize the god character. And what I mean by that is trying to weaken, weaken and put us under the farm. And make us blokes when a slang terminology is not a biblical terminology. So I believe there are lots of dangerous ministers out there men's ministers, general ministers that is trying to soften the character because if the set character can be softened, I can control the character.
Simon Pinchbeck:Wow, wow. Wow, that's that. Yeah. You said something very true there. And I think I think that is right. And
Reverend Ben Cooper:but there's a feminizing. So you're trying to feminize there's almost masculinity. So look, let's be honest, brothers and sisters, and everyone that listens to this. Where are always gonna say it? Where are the real men in church? That's, that's quite a harsh thing.
Simon Pinchbeck:Question a few times, to be honest with you. And I know there's a few.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The real means understand what I'm saying. There's a few beacons of light out there. But there's many men that are being and being shaped and trying to be shaped as the word bloke. And that brings it in a feminizing way of softening the character into a character then they're not really they're not really are. You could not you could not time, David and you could not time and change the character of Samson, a character in the Bible. The men they were men say they lived as they wanted to live, but they live for God.
Simon Pinchbeck:That's a big thing. So what you're saying virtually what you're saying is that there are factions out there that want to weaken, weaken the character that God has put inside of you,
Reverend Ben Cooper:and what is and what is theirs. That's what I'm saying and what I'm what is the biggest issue in religion and church, it's control. That's yeah, I'd go a little bit further and I would say, gay pride. What is it doing? It is knocking out what does this do so changing gender and changing all this? It is trying to take the man out of right. It is weakening The man,
Simon Pinchbeck:I think you can, I bet you can take a step back from that. And you can, you can see where any person that has got a bit of masculine character is now being called a toxic masculinity isn't Yeah, so anyone who sort of the geezer is eating, you know, heterosexual guy
Reverend Ben Cooper:that is a strong, strong, not strong as in manipulating and controlling, but a real man. Show me the real men in ministry preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ to find
Simon Pinchbeck:the character of a real man, then you You're right, we need to seek God and we're gonna need because God has said, Let us make man in our own image.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So what So what is this, that people can live and do what they like the judgment is between you and God and you can cross genders and I don't have any issues with whatever you want. Because I'm just seriously just trying to keep me in check, let alone worry about because, you know, the, you've only got a speck, I've got a plank in my eye so you can go and live and do what you want to do and change that. That's that choice is up to you. But what we have without any shadow of a doubt for years, we have had a gentle wave but actually is fierce now. Coming at what coming up marriage? What is marriage between a man and a woman?
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, it's it's a it's a tidal wave now been. It's a tidal wave, tsunami, tsunami, breeze come in, after everything that God stands for
Reverend Ben Cooper:you but also, exactly. So you go back to what you're talking about to change the character of a man, you've got an almost feminine and I'm not saying no, this is not about the battle of the sexes. This is not about that. Because I thank God for women got I you know what, they are strong, they are powerful, they are beautiful. They are everything that they should be. But what we have facing, we are lacking fathers, we are lacking men.
Simon Pinchbeck:So, Ben, this is such a huge subject. And it's Herot absolutely massive this subject. And I'll come back
Reverend Ben Cooper:to that. Look at the leaders in this nation.
Simon Pinchbeck:I come back to that bend when I met that lovely young lady. In a she was in a ministry and she said to me, Do you know any real men and and I said any proper man, she said, I said, Well, you're in a big church. You said Yeah, but there's no proper men. So we're, you know, this is
Reverend Ben Cooper:that the the the church is, is softening in the character of a man, and that is coming against God,
Simon Pinchbeck:because they are softening the character of God. That's making him so not you're probably making him. You know, when we talk about father heart, that's right, talking about in a mother Hall God
Reverend Ben Cooper:because that I'm afraid to say that's out there as well, I've come into a lot of an arena of conversation where people within the clergy have said, God could possibly be a woman. So we have this character of God being challenged within the ecclesia we aren't gonna worry about the world. It's what's within the church system. And what is all this gender stuff doing? It is crossing over. And it is weakening in both sides or trying to weaken both sides. It's
Simon Pinchbeck:very interesting, because on a couple of talks that I've given to churches and manuscripts or whatever, I often say, what are the characteristics of Father, Father garden, and people come up with that, you know, loving, forgiving, kind, humble, all that sort of stuff, which is great. But not many people come out with strength, power, you know, go on authority thority character, they don't come out with that stuff, because it's not being
Reverend Ben Cooper:tall. But and then we'll go a little bit further not being preached
Simon Pinchbeck:and not being preached and not being shown and and I was just saying tonight, I got a great mic. It was in a in a great church out in in Barnet, and he was telling me he was having a conversation with some guys who were who were not church men. They were and they were saying, Well, what do you think Tony about about this, that and the other and he was saying, Well, the Bible says this, the Bible says that and then they went so why I don't we hear church leaders shouting from the rooftops about, about this stuff? Yeah, when we're seeing it going all the other way. And it's interesting. Why aren't you know, this is in the bodies of the character of God character of God. And the deal with that Ben is this God's character never changes.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm the same yesterday, today and forever my mental. Yeah. Yesterday and forevermore.
Simon Pinchbeck:But all of a sudden, what we're hearing from the pulpit and what we're hearing from you can be who you want when you want, wherever you want to be. The theology has to change the theology or doctrine has got it? No, it doesn't. If
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm changing the theology, I'm changing the Word of God when God says you cannot add on you cannot take away. So when I say show me a real man in Christ, I know. I know that the real men will go Do you know what? Yeah, he's on the bottom without they're on the bottom with this one. But the ones that are struggling, will go, how dare they told like that. But because there are too many blokes, bloke minister is trying to be a man and trying to make themselves a man when you are already a man. You if you find out your identity, who you are in Christ, suddenly you will be a man and not a bloke.
Simon Pinchbeck:What's that is there's one. There's one out there in a moment and it calls himself the busy blokes podcast
Reverend Ben Cooper:and the busy blokes. I'm very busy. And I've got lots of busy things going on. I'm very busy.
Simon Pinchbeck:Now load album, you know, the world of church
Reverend Ben Cooper:world, a church needs what it needs, fathers. It needs men, and it men and when you look at the nation, look at the leaders that we've got. Where are the absolute strong, strong, powerful men in leadership? What have we got
Simon Pinchbeck:to look at all that nonsense? Get out of that nonsense that theology has to change. We have to change now we don't because what did Jesus say said in Matthew 2435. He said, Heaven and earth will pass away. But my Word will stand forever. So ever. The word in the Bible, you don't change you say he doesn't say wetland who can change it as
Reverend Ben Cooper:blending? No, we blend
Simon Pinchbeck:the word this is the true Word of God. And we understand on it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We need the characters look at look at the Leonard Ravenhill. Look at the Smith Wigglesworth. They were men. I want men
Simon Pinchbeck:who are men of character. When I add character is more important than power. Look at look at some of the men in in in. In the Bible. Look at Joshua
Reverend Ben Cooper:right now. Look at Joshua and Kai. So
Simon Pinchbeck:why did God said to him didn't he and Joshua one night and be strong and courageous don't turn from Allah. He said Be a man of character stays tramp stay don't turn the left or the right stay. Don't be weak. Don't be weak three
Reverend Ben Cooper:times he has mentioned. Strength. Strong, strong, strong, courageous, courageous, courageous. So what does that make that that that can almost make you look look like a Viking type of man can it? Do you know what I mean? A man that is like I'm having it. I ain't we ain't messing about we ain't gonna be but what we got is a lot of feminizing going on we've got a lot of movement out there you know where gang glue yourself to the motorway and protest like that when really you should be going you know what? I am a man and I'm standing up for what what what should be stood up for now.
Simon Pinchbeck:I think we've got to put a time is time to put we can't just to be the man mess up to be the person standard in the ground and go this is me. This is me Take it or leave it. This is my Bible in one
Reverend Ben Cooper:button, then people go you're being arrogant. Now I'm not because this is what this is what the Bible says. I formed you in your mother's womb. I created you. I created your bone. I am you. You are me. I created you. I found you. So if Christ formed us physically, he also made the character because you can't you so if you think or if anyone thinks that my character is formed by me alone. That is wrong. When you really look at everything man does not create anything. Humans don't create anything. Everything has been spoken. And that's why God said let's make man in our image the image but also the image carries character.
Simon Pinchbeck:And the sad thing is, a lot of times that characters getting buried so that lie feminize lie side is just sake dinner's over. And yeah, and you said earlier in when we were talking earlier, we very rarely get time to spend and, and speak to God and say, Lord, you know, exactly who am I? What do you what? What are the characteristics of you put in me that you want to use for your kingdom? I'm not worthy. For Gideon.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What did he say? What was said about him, your warrior, son, whatever, come on,
Simon Pinchbeck:and there's a deal. If you spend time you don't know where you are, at least if you spend time out there, and just spend an hour or so asking God know Allah, from God to you, and see what he says about you. Because he will say what he knows what he put in you. If this is what you are, this is who you are. So what you're not what your bishop says you are. It's not what your minister says you are. It's not what the minister leader from down the road says. Now it's what God says you are,
Reverend Ben Cooper:who do you say I am got to juice? Yo, my son is what is a son. So when you work out what a father is what a son is. Now we're talking biblically, what a father is what a son is what a man is. You will find at the core of that, you will find Jesus and when you find Jesus, you will find God's character. What is God? He is no woman. He is power. He is the God that spoke the world into being He is everything that a man should be, you know, we look up Paul, when he cried out. Oh, wretched bloke. Oh, my. Oh, no. Sorry. A wretched man. Am I?
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, yeah. The thing the thing is been there's Jesus was total character, eggs. Absolute character. Exactly. And we're following over, man. Yeah. So we follow in Jesus who's got who's a man of character, stratum in tech Power Word. Three things will test our character. As a man as a man as a woman. One is power. Yeah. Two is money. Oh, yeah. And three is access to sex. or so where you look at men in the Bible? Yep. Ben, who started off a man of great character. Let's look at Solomon. He was a man of great character wasn't
Reverend Ben Cooper:the winner in glory.
Simon Pinchbeck:But what happened to the old lot? Didn't he added the lot. He had power. You had money. He had access to sex. God ELPA. And it destroyed? Yeah. Then it destroyed. Absolutely. We've got Samsung. Yeah. I mean, it was the same time we've got David. David. David was the same way. You know, he's you, you know, that power made him. In the end he was became quite weighed in the
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, and it's
Simon Pinchbeck:the sixth thing came in and that sex, drugs and rock'n'roll. Hezekiah It was another great king, great king, but Sonny started believing his own lunch. He just honed legend in his own lunchtime. And then you got if you look at if you bring it into today's Oh, you're the guy look the prosperity people the
Reverend Ben Cooper:money is just money is the focal
Simon Pinchbeck:money is destroyed these people and you know, destroy their character is there was a guy out there. A powerful preacher Jimmy Swaggart, I think he's come out. Coming back. Jimmy he went down the line of prostitutes Tinian that just had destroys your witness destroys your character. completely done it. I know he's come back. He's got another channel and all that but. But that stuff will destroy it. And I'm afraid
Reverend Ben Cooper:to say it's open for all of us. And it's there for all of us, you know, All have sinned and fallen short of your glory.
Simon Pinchbeck:You find you find people, you know it true leaders. Don't seek followers, do they? No, no, no, no. And by their life, people will be attracted to because
Reverend Ben Cooper:a true follower is just so concerned about the sin within and trying to live and trying to live you're not you ain't got time to build your own lunchbox. I mean, you build your own platform or you're raising your profile. Go on way raise your own profile get used. I want to profile. Just one I just need Jesus because if I don't get Jesus, I ain't gonna make it.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's great to look at Lee Leaders. But there's only really one leader we should be following Jesus Jesus Christ in
Reverend Ben Cooper:it. Now, when you talk about a real leader, there is an issue that the church doesn't and and people don't talk about is when you look at the character, Jesus, Jesus, in one particular place, I'm thinking, is in the Gospel of Mark chapter three. And in the Gospel of Mark chapter three, he he is dealing with an issue he is dealing with now we all I believe we all face this issue that I will get to just hold on, hold this for one second. So Jesus is is on the mountainside, the unclean and impure spirits come up to him. And they say this to Him, the Son of the living God, and He said to them demonic forces, don't you tell anybody who I am? Right, then he goes on, off hour later, then he's calling his 12 disciples. So he's calling his 12 disciples at the beginning of His ministry. But then he goes into a house. And as he goes into this house, he can't eat and he can't drink. And he can't, and the disciples can't eat with him, because there is a crowd that is attracted to Jesus. But then his family come into the conversation. They heard the scriptures, they heard what Jesus was doing. And they came down to the house. And they said, Is he out of his mind? What is he up to? So there are people in your life that don't realize your true character? They looked at Jesus and just see him It says, The scripture actually says that his mother was there and his brothers, and they came down to this house and said, Is he out of his mind? What is he doing? So there are many characters, many characters that are trying to be shaped by your family? This family? This mum of Jesus, his brothers, were calling and saying, Is he out of his mind? What is he doing? And the scripture actually says they came and they tried to take charge of him. There are many people, in families, in life in culture, where they are trying to shape you and tell you how to operate on walk in your ministry, and trying to characterize you.
Simon Pinchbeck:I think it's so sad, don't you? Because in I see it all the time in men, I'll see them being manipulated, manipulated, and shamed being weakened, and the light they had that was shining out of them is gone. So you know when Joe reg Reagan says Joe Rogan's sorry said, says men are living a life of quiet desperation. 100% right, if that's what's happening, because we can't You can't be
Reverend Ben Cooper:or a lot there are many frustrated men within themselves, because work is controlling the mortgages controlling the debt is controlling, the family are controlling,
Simon Pinchbeck:this is a visual, right? So a chameleon, whenever you put it on something, it changes color to that thing done exactly. What happens when you put it on top, explodes and it's gone. You cannot be live in three or four lives. You can't I know, I tried it myself, and you just
Reverend Ben Cooper:try it, you blow you're gone, you're gonna pop.
Simon Pinchbeck:You can't be one thing to one person and never think to another person can you you've got to be true to yourself to your own character to the character that God has put inside of you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And being true to that character means also having a stripping away. And that is painful. When you realize who you are in Christ, a wretched man on my butt, God looks at you and go, that's my son. That's my daughter. I went to the cross to Calvary for them. When you realize who you are, it strengthens your character who you really are. Which then suddenly freedom comes because who, who the sun sets free is free indeed. So a character of even a man or a woman is being challenged at the moment. And
Simon Pinchbeck:you bring some good points Ben and so the thing is this life, this Christian life that we've that we've accepted Jesus Christ, you know, never think it's easy because it's it's
Reverend Ben Cooper:not it's not a it's not a soft flannelly it's not wishy washy. Oh, you know, waving the flag. Hallelujah, wonderful Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:Because the Bible says he who endures to the end
Reverend Ben Cooper:endurance Simon that's a power that's a strong word.
Simon Pinchbeck:So what's your enduring we we got to endure life life attempts station for that stuff down as what you just said when big, big time manipulation.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So they was trying to manipulate Jesus, they're always trying to manipulate it. Isn't that interesting? Yeah, that's what religion is always trying to do manipulate and take the words away from Jesus, we are going to make you who we want you to be. If religion religion has always wanted to do that religion has always wanted to remove it, it says the priests and the leader said, We want him wiped off the face of the earth, you've got to wipe him out of the way he's got got to go. And that is what I'm afraid to say. A fair percentage of denominations are doing because they are not teaching the word of Jesus Christ, there's a difference of teaching it and living it. No one can live this this line, Because narrow is the path. And when you realize how narrow the path is, you can almost think to yourself, it's almost non existent to the human eye because you're going by faith and to go by faith, you've got to be stripped out, you've got to be stripped back and your temptations, your fears, your worries, your fleshly draws, the Scripture says each man is drawn away by his own flesh. So endurance in the Bible is a completely different meaning to an enduring as an athlete.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's not really you what you've what we what we said is right. So when you do accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you are now a citizen of the kingdom and you're separate from the world. And that's the battle and as picking up your cross daily, yeah, and walking with it, because it's the Battle of, of the world wants to pull you and push
Reverend Ben Cooper:you in shape you a monkey, do not conform to the pattern of this world.
Simon Pinchbeck:So is the deal. You know, we have to be men and women of integrity in whatever we do. We, you know, we can't data data bigger, because, you know, we come back to it time and time again, you know, the God and the Father, you Don't wink at sin. So whatever business deal, we're in whatever you said it to me many times, you know, got done work under the table, Dizzy,
Reverend Ben Cooper:don't work under either pull
Simon Pinchbeck:out a little deal under a table and go. Okay, it happened to me once I was, I had this little security company, we had this big contract on the table with this firm that was working with IKEA, and they were going to transform part of its London, we were going to put in, they wanted to quote for many security guards. And I went down there with another guy. And, and the main man, the main director wasn't there. But they were just showing us around so and he showed us around was the security head of security at that time. And he showed us that big thing. And then he sort of pulled us to one side and he said, The person who gets his contract has got Crossmark part with silver. Also, I looked at my mic, he looked at me and we didn't say anything. And we came back and we sort of sat in a car and said the sound this system sit right, we're both Christine is this don't sit right. So I called the director the next day of the whole of the company. And so I wanted to meet now what he was thinking, you know, is he gonna you know, what's he going to say? And I told him about this situation. I told him about his situation and this is what he said. They dug deep they they analyzed it and they given this bloke a good job he was married or whatever in the end, you know, ended up in he lost his job through and we got the contract. Whoa, so truth the Lord. Don't do anything under don't do anything under the table. Dizzy, but now Saturday, Sunday, Tyler so we have to be men and women a character and people know where they where you where they stand with you. Exactly. And people will be drawn to you by your very life because your life is your character.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So what draws people to you in? What have you got about your character?
Simon Pinchbeck:That's it, Jesus. Yeah, that's it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That is greater is He that is me than he that is in the world. The character of Christ and God is so spiritually powerful. You don't need to preach or teach you don't need to jump jump up and down and wave a flag. If you want to live in for Jesus. Your live shows it you are light shining, you shine like a light on
Simon Pinchbeck:fire 16 Let your light shine then you'll then you will fall over and everyone who sees you will be glorified and
Reverend Ben Cooper:who is your light. I am the light of the world. I am on darkness, but within me is light.
Simon Pinchbeck:So the scales of your life have to be firmly tipped firmly tipped towards Jesus,
Reverend Ben Cooper:and who can only tip them Jesus by what have helped me and many
Simon Pinchbeck:of us every day the scales are going up. Up and down.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yo, yo, Chris.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, we we live the life of a Roman seven Christian Roman assembly of things is, you know, why do I do the things that I don't want to do? Help me, help me come down to the things that I want to do? Because that that balance every day we're being pulled by the world, don't we?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. So. So why? How? How do I become this man? I just follow Jesus. Well, I follow
Unknown:him. You follow him? Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I listen to the word. I repent.
Simon Pinchbeck:You know, they used to be a big thing. And they people used to wear little What would Jesus do? Yeah. And
Reverend Ben Cooper:when I asked that question, it went against what they were doing, they cut the they cut the wristband off aren't doing that. You know, I mean, what would Jesus do?
Simon Pinchbeck:What was Jesus done? And what would he do? So that's when you would, you know, would you look at that little video on your
Reverend Ben Cooper:company wristband.
Simon Pinchbeck:So, Jesus, you got this, can you sit over there for a minute, I just just want to imagine I used to think this. You imagine you got Jesus looking over your shoulder?
Reverend Ben Cooper:I can't, I can't leave the house. Sometimes I just want to run so far away from what the world know for myself. Sometimes I just want to run and say God, will you just evaporate me some days? Because,
Simon Pinchbeck:well, this is the sad thing, Ben, because I had a great good mate of mine who's who's great testimony, great witness for the Lord yesterday said amazes so I'm as I'm getting to a point now where I just want the Lord to take me out. And I'm thinking, No, we need you in times like this, we need you to stand firm, we need you to be the light,
Reverend Ben Cooper:but those that are carrying the character of Christ, are taking such a battering, it's like, it's like Paul, he was dragged he was dragged outside the city and you're stoned. To death almost. So when you follow Christ, and you are a disciple of Christ, and you're following and you know that you are a wretch, and you know that you need God and you know, the failings and all that the endurance comes into it the stone in from people around you that the spiritual stone in that the arrows, the flyers, every everything, you become this attraction, for most trouble all the time.
Simon Pinchbeck:Oh, well, you, you know, you're not going to
Reverend Ben Cooper:avoid it. We're not going to avoid it, you're not gonna avoid anything. And the world wants you.
Simon Pinchbeck:The world wants big time. And the sad thing is, religion Don't, don't we've got, we've got, you know, we've got a lot of good guys, doing the best leading in churches. But sadly, a lot of young men are coming out of Bible school, at character, less character list step performers, they're great performers, and they can preach and I can, I can eat you, but I don't show the character of the Lord, which is where we need to be in it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think we so right back to that text that I spoke about in Mark chapter three. It says that, that Jesus called, and he drew the 12 to him, and he appointed them. There are many people that have been appointed, but they wasn't anointed at that point until in the Gospel of John, when it says, Christ breathed over them, and they received the Holy Spirit. There are many people that are appointed, and think that they're anointed, we're naturally I'm just got an appointment, I'm here to do a job for a set reason and go off on so their character. So this is such a deep conversation because the character of a person should reflect Jesus Christ. And we got to understand our calling, not our limitation, but where God wants us to operate in the sense
Simon Pinchbeck:well, and the second thing is we we should be called right at this moment in time to shine brighter than we've ever shown before. I need to show more. Because there is no character in the world. There is no character in politicians. They're there. They are the world's worst they have to get themselves something called an image consultant because they're so full of lies and no care. Actor that they can't be themselves, right. So they have to tell lies and put those together and show the world this is but it's not only our so
Reverend Ben Cooper:we're living in the West we are living in, in, in theater, it is all Sodom and Gomorrah, you saw them think Amara, the biggest act that is going on is everywhere. And you know what the church cannot copy, the biggest act that's going on, it has got to be different, and it can't act and it can't perform. And it can't do all the stuff that's going on in different areas of that has to stand on the rock. It has to it has to follow God it has to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. And again, I'm gonna say it again. And yeah, I might get back down the line, so be it. But I want to see the men in church, I want to see the men men,
Simon Pinchbeck:we want men of character who have fought who, who have just sought the father and the scene and follow his character, you know, because you said, you mentioned that before that that scripture in Jeremiah one five, and it says, Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. He says this before you were born, I set you apart. Now, God has set you apart. He set you apart for a reason for a purpose. For with character. Yes. Don't let the world swamp that character. That's right, stand out, let your light shine before men. And that's what Jesus
Reverend Ben Cooper:his family were trying to do. They were trying to stop him operating within Himself in His own authority,
Simon Pinchbeck:but he knew what the Father enemy knew what the father's mind was. So we eat you know, time and time again. You know, Peter, he said, get the mean get thee behind me Satan didn't? Yeah, because he knew. If I listened to you, you're going to be tempted not to go Frou Frou what I've got to do. That's right. And so if we start to listen to the world, we might be tempted not to be a part of and wouldn't it be? Wouldn't be a it's one of my one of my biggest fears Ben, you know, standing before the Lord and in going, Oh, you didn't do bad but we really would have liked you to have done this, that and the other don't even say it you know that time you were sitting there watching the football all that time? You know you did this, that and the other we would have liked you to have done more we had all this line that for you. You know, the slight story of a guy that that looks at all the boxes and they've all got his name on them and he said to some PT said these have all gotten these are over me. So now they weren't for you. They were the blessings meant for you. But you didn't reach out for them. And so you never got them on Earth man you should do if we men of character and women of character. That's right. We stand
Reverend Ben Cooper:in our unique individual unique individual standing up
Simon Pinchbeck:for our faith letting the light shine out. Let
Reverend Ben Cooper:your your light your light. Your light shine your light. Yeah, that mean your light been not Bill Johnson. I
Simon Pinchbeck:know what we're ending. But, but you've just hit the nail on the head, low light shine out, not not
Reverend Ben Cooper:anybody else's. And it difficult to bring this to a
Simon Pinchbeck:whole thing we'll probably have to come on next week with this. But, but, but we're coming to what we
Reverend Ben Cooper:were 5858 minute 48 minutes in world. Well, it's interesting, though, isn't it? When you really start talking about real life issues and, and and and the Bible and looking at all this it really challenges you then it? Well, this is what this is what I need to be challenged because church don't challenge me anymore. They don't challenge me. It's got nothing to offer me. But Jesus has everything. And your church leader is actually nice. In fact, in fact, church has nothing attractive for me. It's just showmanship. It's just dancing around the feathers. When actually I want to be in the kingdom. Oh, I want God to say well done good and faithful serve. And I
Simon Pinchbeck:think I think I think the Christian world is full of men and women either they they want a deeper relationship. Just
Reverend Ben Cooper:want to walk deeper with Jesus. That's all I want. Oh are needed. I need it. I can't dance around the denominational drum and all the time for a good time.
Simon Pinchbeck:And the world is is getting worse and worse and we need men and we feel this Sit at least we need you to stand up for let your light shine out. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Man or woman, be that character that God created and Sorokin God bless you.
Simon Pinchbeck:Hashtag Christian strikes. Yeah. A bearer of the truth straight out.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Straight out of that. God bless. Have a great day whatever your time zone is, wherever you are across this world. You know if God can save me and Simon, what much more can you do for you? There's always hope. There's always hope never give up. God bless