Matthew Skic from the Museum of the American Revolution and I talk about their exhibit Black Founders: The Forten Family of Philadelphia . 9-year old James Forten heard the Declaration of Independence read in July of 1776, and never forgot its promise of liberty and equality. At the age of 14 he signed aboard a privateer, was captured, taken to New York where a British officer offered to release him and send him to England. He refused rather than betray his country. Back in Philadelphia after the war he became a successful businessman--a sail maker--one of the wealthiest Black men in the country, and the chief benefactor of William Lloyd Garrison's newspaper The Liberator. Join us to hear more about James Forten and his family's story--and for more on Forten, read Julie Winch's great book Gentleman of Color.
Matthew Skic from the Museum of the American Revolution and I talk about their exhibit Black Founders: The Forten Family of Philadelphia . 9-year old James Forten heard the Declaration of Independence read in July of 1776, and never forgot its promise of liberty and equality. At the age of 14 he signed aboard a privateer, was captured, taken to New York where a British officer offered to release him and send him to England. He refused rather than betray his country. Back in Philadelphia after the war he became a successful businessman--a sail maker--one of the wealthiest Black men in the country, and the chief benefactor of William Lloyd Garrison's newspaper The Liberator. Join us to hear more about James Forten and his family's story--and for more on Forten, read Julie Winch's great book Gentleman of Color.
WEBVTT
00:00:01.290 --> 00:00:02.071
Hello, everyone.
00:00:02.310 --> 00:00:04.932
Welcome to the Revolution 250 podcast.
00:00:05.032 --> 00:00:05.911
I am Bob Allison.
00:00:05.952 --> 00:00:07.932
I chair the Rev 250 Advisory Group.
00:00:08.391 --> 00:00:10.413
We are a consortium of 70
00:00:10.413 --> 00:00:11.272
organizations in
00:00:11.292 --> 00:00:12.432
Massachusetts looking at
00:00:12.473 --> 00:00:13.333
ways to commemorate the
00:00:13.372 --> 00:00:15.034
beginnings of American independence.
00:00:15.694 --> 00:00:17.673
And our guest today is Matthew Skick.
00:00:17.774 --> 00:00:19.655
And Matthew, welcome to the podcast,
00:00:19.695 --> 00:00:20.054
Matthew.
00:00:21.094 --> 00:00:22.035
Thank you for having me, Bob.
00:00:22.835 --> 00:00:23.795
And Matthew Skick is the
00:00:23.856 --> 00:00:25.475
curator of exhibitions at
00:00:25.515 --> 00:00:26.635
the Museum of the American
00:00:26.696 --> 00:00:28.277
Revolution in Philadelphia.
00:00:28.336 --> 00:00:29.396
Tremendous institution.
00:00:29.417 --> 00:00:30.617
You've been there since the beginning.
00:00:31.925 --> 00:00:33.646
Yes, I joined the staff in June of 2016.
00:00:33.807 --> 00:00:38.189
And that previous summer in 2015,
00:00:38.189 --> 00:00:39.590
I had interned for the museum.
00:00:39.609 --> 00:00:41.331
So I got a chance to help
00:00:41.411 --> 00:00:43.171
open the museum to the public in 2017.
00:00:43.171 --> 00:00:45.813
It's really an exciting
00:00:45.872 --> 00:00:46.914
opportunity to open
00:00:46.973 --> 00:00:48.194
something new that's going
00:00:48.234 --> 00:00:50.314
to tell these old stories,
00:00:50.354 --> 00:00:51.356
but tell them in a new way.
00:00:52.701 --> 00:00:53.082
Definitely.
00:00:53.143 --> 00:00:55.244
And it's a lifelong passion
00:00:55.265 --> 00:00:56.066
of mine to study the
00:00:56.106 --> 00:00:58.168
American Revolution and to
00:00:58.189 --> 00:00:59.570
be able to open a national
00:00:59.651 --> 00:01:01.393
scale institution dedicated
00:01:01.453 --> 00:01:02.774
to telling that story.
00:01:03.415 --> 00:01:05.197
It's a once in a lifetime opportunity.
00:01:05.218 --> 00:01:07.079
I'm so happy to be a part of it.
00:01:07.099 --> 00:01:08.921
And you're just telling me
00:01:08.983 --> 00:01:09.823
you grew up near
00:01:09.884 --> 00:01:11.725
Washington's Crossing in New Jersey.
00:01:12.331 --> 00:01:12.792
That's right.
00:01:12.811 --> 00:01:12.932
Yeah,
00:01:12.951 --> 00:01:14.453
about 10 minutes away from where
00:01:14.513 --> 00:01:15.472
Washington crossed the
00:01:15.513 --> 00:01:17.513
Delaware in central New Jersey.
00:01:18.293 --> 00:01:20.933
And my first job as a
00:01:20.993 --> 00:01:21.993
teenager was as a
00:01:22.034 --> 00:01:23.254
historical interpreter at
00:01:23.314 --> 00:01:24.635
Washington Crossing State Park.
00:01:25.454 --> 00:01:26.834
Good thing you stuck with it
00:01:26.896 --> 00:01:27.975
then through college and
00:01:28.016 --> 00:01:29.316
through you got an M.A.
00:01:29.355 --> 00:01:30.495
at the University of
00:01:30.536 --> 00:01:31.356
Delaware in the winter.
00:01:33.427 --> 00:01:33.647
you know,
00:01:33.686 --> 00:01:35.066
doing material culture kinds of
00:01:35.106 --> 00:01:37.468
things to prepare your career in museums.
00:01:37.867 --> 00:01:38.628
Exactly right.
00:01:38.867 --> 00:01:39.569
Yep.
00:01:39.789 --> 00:01:41.028
I wrote in,
00:01:41.188 --> 00:01:42.149
I remember writing in seventh
00:01:42.168 --> 00:01:43.228
grade that I wanted to be a
00:01:43.269 --> 00:01:44.290
museum curator.
00:01:45.010 --> 00:01:49.131
And here I am now getting to do that.
00:01:49.850 --> 00:01:52.792
And I studied history down in Washington,
00:01:52.811 --> 00:01:53.132
D.C.
00:01:53.171 --> 00:01:54.331
at American University and
00:01:54.371 --> 00:01:55.031
then went to the University
00:01:55.091 --> 00:01:56.612
of Delaware to continue
00:01:57.132 --> 00:01:59.253
that path and then landed
00:01:59.274 --> 00:01:59.993
here at the museum.
00:02:00.853 --> 00:02:01.034
Great.
00:02:01.587 --> 00:02:02.207
And we're actually going to
00:02:02.227 --> 00:02:03.969
talk about one of the
00:02:04.049 --> 00:02:05.070
exhibits you've had up.
00:02:05.090 --> 00:02:06.212
You still have the virtual
00:02:06.272 --> 00:02:07.674
exhibit about one of these
00:02:07.754 --> 00:02:10.177
extraordinary figures in American history,
00:02:10.217 --> 00:02:11.860
James Fortin of Philadelphia.
00:02:13.455 --> 00:02:13.716
Right.
00:02:14.056 --> 00:02:17.939
So last year, in February of 2023,
00:02:17.939 --> 00:02:19.762
the Museum of the American
00:02:19.782 --> 00:02:22.183
Revolution opened up Black Founders,
00:02:22.223 --> 00:02:24.205
the Fortin Family of Philadelphia,
00:02:24.725 --> 00:02:27.407
which was the first major
00:02:27.527 --> 00:02:29.210
exhibit to tell the story
00:02:29.650 --> 00:02:31.792
of the Fortin family,
00:02:31.872 --> 00:02:33.794
a whole exhibit dedicated
00:02:33.834 --> 00:02:34.875
to telling that story.
00:02:35.694 --> 00:02:38.518
And the focal point of the
00:02:38.557 --> 00:02:40.719
story is James Fortin,
00:02:41.300 --> 00:02:44.984
who as a young man,
00:02:45.024 --> 00:02:46.665
he grew up here in Philadelphia,
00:02:46.725 --> 00:02:48.227
part of the growing free
00:02:48.287 --> 00:02:50.209
black community in Philadelphia.
00:02:51.237 --> 00:02:52.318
And as a teenager,
00:02:52.397 --> 00:02:53.419
he signed up to serve
00:02:53.459 --> 00:02:55.139
aboard a privateer ship
00:02:55.618 --> 00:02:56.639
fighting on behalf of the
00:02:56.680 --> 00:02:57.580
United States during the
00:02:57.599 --> 00:02:58.520
Revolutionary War.
00:02:59.080 --> 00:02:59.941
And then he went on to
00:02:59.980 --> 00:03:02.542
become a successful
00:03:03.262 --> 00:03:05.201
businessman here in Philadelphia,
00:03:05.723 --> 00:03:08.022
accumulated great wealth as a sail maker,
00:03:08.383 --> 00:03:09.163
became the wealthiest
00:03:09.223 --> 00:03:11.183
African-American person in
00:03:11.223 --> 00:03:12.645
the city and perhaps even
00:03:12.664 --> 00:03:13.844
the entire United States in
00:03:13.865 --> 00:03:16.665
the early 19th century and had
00:03:17.925 --> 00:03:19.788
eight children who survived to adulthood.
00:03:20.187 --> 00:03:21.788
And so we talked about not
00:03:21.849 --> 00:03:22.669
only James Fortin,
00:03:22.710 --> 00:03:24.230
but the generation of his
00:03:24.290 --> 00:03:26.112
children and also his grandchildren.
00:03:26.133 --> 00:03:27.614
So three generations of one
00:03:27.674 --> 00:03:30.576
family from 1776 to 1876.
00:03:30.576 --> 00:03:35.080
So it's a great way to look at,
00:03:35.280 --> 00:03:36.561
use one family as a window
00:03:36.580 --> 00:03:37.262
through which to look at
00:03:37.301 --> 00:03:38.663
the first 100 years of the
00:03:38.682 --> 00:03:40.585
United States as an independent nation.
00:03:41.885 --> 00:03:42.225
It really is.
00:03:42.286 --> 00:03:43.447
And a lot of exciting things
00:03:43.646 --> 00:03:44.448
in the exhibit,
00:03:44.487 --> 00:03:46.068
but I think one of the favorites is
00:03:46.521 --> 00:03:47.664
the bible that is you were
00:03:47.724 --> 00:03:49.688
able to find or one of his
00:03:49.729 --> 00:03:51.453
descendants put on
00:03:51.533 --> 00:03:53.076
permanent like a gift to
00:03:53.097 --> 00:03:55.241
the museum of the fortin family bible
00:03:56.290 --> 00:03:56.730
That's right.
00:03:56.811 --> 00:03:57.051
Yeah,
00:03:57.472 --> 00:04:00.253
it was truly remarkable and very
00:04:00.493 --> 00:04:01.275
generous.
00:04:01.935 --> 00:04:04.137
And as we were doing a lot
00:04:04.176 --> 00:04:05.777
of the preparatory research
00:04:06.519 --> 00:04:07.658
for the exhibit,
00:04:08.039 --> 00:04:09.281
we were working alongside
00:04:09.341 --> 00:04:12.022
James Fortin's biographer, Julie Winch.
00:04:12.782 --> 00:04:14.383
From UMass Boston.
00:04:15.025 --> 00:04:16.586
Exactly, UMass Boston.
00:04:16.846 --> 00:04:16.946
And
00:04:18.322 --> 00:04:20.963
She, after her book was published,
00:04:21.004 --> 00:04:21.983
A Gentleman of Color,
00:04:22.004 --> 00:04:23.084
The Life of James Fortin,
00:04:23.105 --> 00:04:26.105
that was about just over 20 years ago now,
00:04:26.946 --> 00:04:29.947
she was got in contact,
00:04:30.846 --> 00:04:32.247
was actually contacted by a
00:04:32.747 --> 00:04:34.367
direct descendant of James Fortin.
00:04:34.387 --> 00:04:35.988
In fact, his great, great, great,
00:04:36.228 --> 00:04:40.009
great grandson who lives out in Illinois,
00:04:40.029 --> 00:04:41.391
but is originally from Philadelphia.
00:04:42.250 --> 00:04:42.771
And he said,
00:04:42.790 --> 00:04:45.353
I have the Fortin family Bible.
00:04:45.713 --> 00:04:48.475
But and Julie kept in touch
00:04:48.615 --> 00:04:51.175
with Atwood Fortin Jacobs.
00:04:51.216 --> 00:04:52.317
He goes by Kip, though.
00:04:53.137 --> 00:04:55.338
And and then we rekindled
00:04:55.379 --> 00:04:57.319
that connection with him in
00:04:57.600 --> 00:04:59.341
anticipation of this exhibit.
00:05:00.141 --> 00:05:00.822
And so.
00:05:01.721 --> 00:05:02.262
Initially,
00:05:02.923 --> 00:05:05.384
Kip and his daughter Taylor put
00:05:05.423 --> 00:05:08.964
the Bible on loan to the museum,
00:05:09.365 --> 00:05:11.206
but then they decided in
00:05:11.286 --> 00:05:13.788
March of 2023 to donate it to the museum.
00:05:13.867 --> 00:05:14.867
And so it's now part of our
00:05:14.908 --> 00:05:16.108
collection and it's
00:05:16.149 --> 00:05:18.430
currently on display in our core exhibit.
00:05:19.689 --> 00:05:22.151
But what's great about this
00:05:22.190 --> 00:05:24.971
particular Bible is that in
00:05:25.011 --> 00:05:25.951
the middle of it, it has,
00:05:26.190 --> 00:05:27.591
like many other Bibles,
00:05:28.012 --> 00:05:30.031
family records pages.
00:05:30.411 --> 00:05:32.273
So listing out births, deaths,
00:05:32.413 --> 00:05:35.333
and marriages for seven
00:05:35.372 --> 00:05:36.593
generations of the family.
00:05:37.454 --> 00:05:40.353
And in some cases,
00:05:40.533 --> 00:05:41.995
this is the only place
00:05:42.035 --> 00:05:43.014
where that genealogical
00:05:43.055 --> 00:05:44.035
information is written down.
00:05:45.838 --> 00:05:48.399
And so it's a real treasure
00:05:48.680 --> 00:05:50.800
for Philadelphia,
00:05:51.321 --> 00:05:53.262
especially African-American
00:05:53.302 --> 00:05:55.603
history in this city and
00:05:55.803 --> 00:05:56.504
connected to such a
00:05:56.564 --> 00:05:58.384
prominent Black family of
00:05:58.425 --> 00:05:59.586
the early 19th century.
00:06:00.987 --> 00:06:01.887
It's truly remarkable.
00:06:02.666 --> 00:06:03.088
It really is.
00:06:03.848 --> 00:06:05.228
We're talking with Matthew Skick,
00:06:05.288 --> 00:06:06.670
the curator of exhibitions
00:06:06.730 --> 00:06:07.430
at the Museum of the
00:06:07.449 --> 00:06:09.211
American Revolution in Philadelphia,
00:06:09.230 --> 00:06:11.192
and we're talking about their exhibit,
00:06:11.252 --> 00:06:12.233
Black Founders,
00:06:12.312 --> 00:06:14.413
the Fortin Family of Philadelphia.
00:06:15.048 --> 00:06:16.269
And James Fortner said he's
00:06:16.329 --> 00:06:17.411
born in Philadelphia and
00:06:17.451 --> 00:06:19.394
he's about nine years old in 1776.
00:06:19.394 --> 00:06:22.235
And he hears the Declaration
00:06:22.255 --> 00:06:23.278
of Independence read
00:06:23.338 --> 00:06:24.639
outside Independence Hall
00:06:24.678 --> 00:06:25.699
in July of 1776.
00:06:25.699 --> 00:06:28.622
And this makes a great impression on him.
00:06:29.956 --> 00:06:30.516
It sure does.
00:06:30.557 --> 00:06:31.536
And this is a story that he
00:06:31.576 --> 00:06:32.598
would continue to tell
00:06:32.637 --> 00:06:33.778
throughout his life to say
00:06:33.817 --> 00:06:35.439
that he was there for that
00:06:35.499 --> 00:06:38.360
day on July 8th, 1776,
00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:39.221
during the first public
00:06:39.281 --> 00:06:40.341
reading of the Declaration
00:06:40.382 --> 00:06:41.101
of Independence.
00:06:41.521 --> 00:06:42.122
Like you said, Bob,
00:06:42.142 --> 00:06:43.843
he's just nine years old at the time.
00:06:44.783 --> 00:06:48.146
And this Declaration of
00:06:48.185 --> 00:06:49.146
Independence is something
00:06:49.187 --> 00:06:50.908
that he would quote and
00:06:51.247 --> 00:06:53.048
reference in his later
00:06:53.129 --> 00:06:54.689
writings when he is on the
00:06:54.769 --> 00:06:57.391
rise as an abolitionist leader, a
00:06:59.632 --> 00:07:00.754
equal rights leader,
00:07:01.154 --> 00:07:03.798
a civil rights leader in Philadelphia.
00:07:04.298 --> 00:07:05.519
And when he sort of enters
00:07:05.579 --> 00:07:08.004
the more national stage
00:07:08.925 --> 00:07:11.028
through his writings in the
00:07:11.067 --> 00:07:11.908
early 19th century,
00:07:11.928 --> 00:07:14.012
he's frequently quoting the
00:07:14.052 --> 00:07:15.353
Declaration of Independence
00:07:16.053 --> 00:07:17.355
and referring to it and
00:07:17.394 --> 00:07:18.716
saying that this is what
00:07:18.735 --> 00:07:20.038
the United States needs to
00:07:20.077 --> 00:07:23.519
live up to and adhere to.
00:07:23.560 --> 00:07:24.821
These are the founding ideals.
00:07:25.922 --> 00:07:26.523
And that's one of the
00:07:26.543 --> 00:07:27.262
reasons why we called the
00:07:27.302 --> 00:07:28.564
exhibit Black Founders.
00:07:28.785 --> 00:07:29.725
James Fortin is trying to
00:07:29.805 --> 00:07:32.708
encourage the United States
00:07:32.767 --> 00:07:35.850
to increase and enhance and
00:07:36.011 --> 00:07:37.112
strengthen its commitment
00:07:37.192 --> 00:07:39.273
to its founding ideals,
00:07:39.814 --> 00:07:40.814
ideals that James Fortin
00:07:41.115 --> 00:07:42.415
fought for as a teenager.
00:07:42.435 --> 00:07:43.396
Right.
00:07:43.874 --> 00:07:44.053
Right.
00:07:44.374 --> 00:07:44.514
Yeah.
00:07:44.535 --> 00:07:45.355
So then when he's 14,
00:07:45.355 --> 00:07:47.257
he enlists aboard a privateer,
00:07:47.297 --> 00:07:49.358
the Royal Lewis or Royal Louis.
00:07:49.737 --> 00:07:50.598
Yes, exactly.
00:07:50.658 --> 00:07:52.360
Named for King Louis XVI,
00:07:52.500 --> 00:07:54.661
the new ally of the United States.
00:07:56.002 --> 00:07:58.524
And this privateer vessel
00:07:59.365 --> 00:08:00.745
was a purpose built vessel
00:08:00.805 --> 00:08:02.206
for privateering made here
00:08:02.226 --> 00:08:02.588
in Philadelphia,
00:08:02.608 --> 00:08:03.709
built here in Philadelphia.
00:08:04.428 --> 00:08:07.391
Its captain was Stephen Decatur,
00:08:07.651 --> 00:08:08.612
the father of the more
00:08:08.632 --> 00:08:10.052
famous Stephen Decatur.
00:08:10.833 --> 00:08:15.016
And Stephen Decatur commanded that vessel.
00:08:15.516 --> 00:08:18.038
And in the summer of 1781,
00:08:18.038 --> 00:08:18.939
when he took command,
00:08:19.158 --> 00:08:21.240
James Fortin was one of the
00:08:21.259 --> 00:08:22.680
youngest members of the crew,
00:08:22.800 --> 00:08:24.341
but one of about 20 or so
00:08:25.442 --> 00:08:27.084
black sailors aboard the ship.
00:08:28.045 --> 00:08:29.745
And the first voyage that
00:08:29.786 --> 00:08:31.226
the Royal Lewis goes on in
00:08:31.247 --> 00:08:32.227
the late summer of 1781 is
00:08:32.248 --> 00:08:32.748
pretty successful.
00:08:34.548 --> 00:08:35.889
They tow in some British
00:08:35.970 --> 00:08:38.231
prizes back to Philadelphia.
00:08:39.293 --> 00:08:43.355
They auction off those prizes.
00:08:43.657 --> 00:08:45.677
And so the crew earns money
00:08:45.778 --> 00:08:46.759
from those captures.
00:08:47.779 --> 00:08:49.682
And then the Royal Lewis
00:08:49.701 --> 00:08:52.364
goes on its second voyage,
00:08:53.203 --> 00:08:55.566
but it falls quickly into British hands.
00:08:55.645 --> 00:08:58.229
It's captured by a superior vessel called
00:08:58.869 --> 00:08:59.710
the Amphion,
00:08:59.789 --> 00:09:03.614
and based on the logbook of the Amphion,
00:09:03.653 --> 00:09:05.916
the HMS Amphion,
00:09:07.096 --> 00:09:08.418
that capture was made just
00:09:08.499 --> 00:09:10.660
off the coast of Virginia
00:09:11.182 --> 00:09:14.221
in October of 1781.
00:09:14.221 --> 00:09:16.043
This is right around the time of Yorktown.
00:09:16.384 --> 00:09:17.125
Exactly right.
00:09:17.245 --> 00:09:17.465
Yeah.
00:09:17.524 --> 00:09:18.405
So there's a lot of things
00:09:18.446 --> 00:09:19.788
going on in that area.
00:09:20.168 --> 00:09:22.350
And there's a lot of French
00:09:22.490 --> 00:09:24.572
and British naval activity going on.
00:09:24.611 --> 00:09:26.354
And the Royal Lewis sort of
00:09:26.833 --> 00:09:27.634
falls into that.
00:09:29.015 --> 00:09:30.538
And they're captured.
00:09:31.158 --> 00:09:33.859
The crew and the ship are
00:09:33.918 --> 00:09:35.419
brought up to New York, of course,
00:09:35.460 --> 00:09:37.279
which is occupied by the British,
00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:39.240
their headquarters in North America.
00:09:40.201 --> 00:09:42.442
And James Fortin and his
00:09:42.522 --> 00:09:45.822
crewmates are put aboard the prison ship,
00:09:45.883 --> 00:09:47.803
the Jersey, in New York Harbor.
00:09:48.825 --> 00:09:50.465
Notorious prison ship Jersey.
00:09:50.985 --> 00:09:51.566
Exactly.
00:09:51.966 --> 00:09:53.586
And James Fortin spent seven
00:09:53.625 --> 00:09:55.687
months aboard that prison ship.
00:09:56.006 --> 00:09:57.368
He's released in 1782.
00:09:59.126 --> 00:10:00.467
Now, he had an opportunity,
00:10:00.548 --> 00:10:01.869
according to tradition,
00:10:02.109 --> 00:10:03.509
of not having to stay
00:10:03.629 --> 00:10:05.071
aboard the prison ship.
00:10:05.551 --> 00:10:06.091
Is that right?
00:10:06.812 --> 00:10:07.371
That's right.
00:10:07.511 --> 00:10:10.014
And this is a story that was
00:10:10.114 --> 00:10:17.399
shared just after James Fortin's death,
00:10:17.798 --> 00:10:19.340
just before the mid-19th century,
00:10:19.419 --> 00:10:20.561
by Robert Purvis.
00:10:20.620 --> 00:10:23.163
That's James Fortin's son-in-law.
00:10:24.062 --> 00:10:25.663
who worked closely with his
00:10:25.845 --> 00:10:28.005
father-in-law as an abolitionist.
00:10:28.826 --> 00:10:30.988
And Robert Purvis shared the
00:10:31.129 --> 00:10:32.350
story that James Fortin
00:10:32.370 --> 00:10:35.511
would tell him that before
00:10:35.991 --> 00:10:37.953
Fortin was put aboard the prison ship,
00:10:38.514 --> 00:10:41.897
the captain of the Amphion, John Baisley,
00:10:42.616 --> 00:10:46.019
offered Fortin the opportunity to travel.
00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:49.802
come to England and, um, live with the,
00:10:49.903 --> 00:10:52.163
the Baisley family because, um,
00:10:52.705 --> 00:10:55.265
John Baisley's son sort of, uh,
00:10:55.606 --> 00:10:57.187
struck up a relationship
00:10:57.227 --> 00:10:58.729
with James Fortin aboard
00:10:58.769 --> 00:11:00.730
because Baisley's son was a,
00:11:00.850 --> 00:11:02.572
like sort of a cabin boy aboard the ship,
00:11:03.331 --> 00:11:04.633
uh, an officer's servant,
00:11:05.013 --> 00:11:06.173
maybe serving his father.
00:11:06.193 --> 00:11:07.774
And Fortin was sort of
00:11:07.815 --> 00:11:09.917
distracting the young, young, uh,
00:11:10.037 --> 00:11:10.898
captain's son.
00:11:11.697 --> 00:11:13.619
And, um, and so, um,
00:11:14.621 --> 00:11:15.623
Fortin actually turned down
00:11:15.663 --> 00:11:17.245
that opportunity to go to England.
00:11:18.666 --> 00:11:20.989
And according to Robert Purvis,
00:11:21.408 --> 00:11:22.671
Fortin said that he would
00:11:22.730 --> 00:11:26.195
not turn his back on the
00:11:26.375 --> 00:11:27.375
country he was fighting for.
00:11:27.395 --> 00:11:27.456
And
00:11:30.359 --> 00:11:31.559
So then he goes aboard the
00:11:31.580 --> 00:11:34.563
prison ship and Fortin has
00:11:34.644 --> 00:11:37.427
another opportunity to get
00:11:37.466 --> 00:11:39.328
away from the situation he's in.
00:11:39.948 --> 00:11:42.231
And that's when an American
00:11:42.331 --> 00:11:44.033
officer is being exchanged
00:11:44.094 --> 00:11:45.235
and that officer has a sea
00:11:45.274 --> 00:11:46.937
chest with him and Fortin
00:11:46.956 --> 00:11:48.317
can fit in that sea chest.
00:11:49.570 --> 00:11:50.049
But instead,
00:11:50.090 --> 00:11:53.951
he gives his place up to a
00:11:54.490 --> 00:11:56.371
young man named Daniel Bruton,
00:11:56.432 --> 00:11:58.832
who is also a teenager from Philadelphia.
00:11:59.253 --> 00:12:00.173
But he was a bit sickly
00:12:00.373 --> 00:12:02.214
aboard the aboard the prison ship.
00:12:02.693 --> 00:12:04.053
So Fortin gives his place up
00:12:04.134 --> 00:12:05.975
to Daniel Bruton, a young,
00:12:06.154 --> 00:12:07.075
young white sailor.
00:12:07.774 --> 00:12:08.774
And Bruton makes it
00:12:08.835 --> 00:12:10.916
successfully out of the jersey.
00:12:11.556 --> 00:12:13.376
and makes it back to Philadelphia.
00:12:13.437 --> 00:12:14.937
And Bruton and Fortin later
00:12:15.018 --> 00:12:17.678
reconnect later in life in Philadelphia,
00:12:18.359 --> 00:12:19.899
and Bruton vouches for what
00:12:19.980 --> 00:12:21.280
James Fortin did for him
00:12:21.620 --> 00:12:22.541
when they were just teenagers.
00:12:22.721 --> 00:12:24.062
Imagine those decisions that
00:12:24.101 --> 00:12:24.961
these young men were making.
00:12:24.981 --> 00:12:25.363
Really.
00:12:25.942 --> 00:12:26.182
Really.
00:12:26.222 --> 00:12:27.903
I mean, not to go to England,
00:12:27.984 --> 00:12:29.063
where your life certainly
00:12:29.104 --> 00:12:29.745
would be different,
00:12:29.764 --> 00:12:30.504
better than being on a
00:12:30.565 --> 00:12:31.384
prison ship and then
00:12:31.465 --> 00:12:32.785
letting someone else go in
00:12:32.806 --> 00:12:35.866
your place in this sea chest to escape.
00:12:36.567 --> 00:12:36.807
Right.
00:12:37.268 --> 00:12:38.629
Fortin doesn't know what he's doing.
00:12:40.134 --> 00:12:40.293
Yeah,
00:12:40.313 --> 00:12:41.134
Fortin doesn't know what those
00:12:41.215 --> 00:12:41.914
outcomes are going to be.
00:12:41.975 --> 00:12:44.015
What's his future going to truly hold?
00:12:44.456 --> 00:12:46.376
Right.
00:12:46.397 --> 00:12:47.658
We're talking with Matthew Skick,
00:12:47.697 --> 00:12:48.999
the curator of exhibitions
00:12:49.058 --> 00:12:50.899
at the Museum of the American Revolution,
00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:52.059
and we're talking about their exhibit,
00:12:52.080 --> 00:12:53.701
which is still online.
00:12:53.740 --> 00:12:56.062
You can see the exhibit online.
00:12:56.123 --> 00:12:57.482
The Black Founders,
00:12:57.543 --> 00:12:59.283
the Fortin Family of Philadelphia.
00:12:59.663 --> 00:13:01.885
So James Fortin, at the age of,
00:13:02.525 --> 00:13:03.285
what is he now, about 16, 17,
00:13:03.285 --> 00:13:04.567
has been a prisoner of war.
00:13:06.690 --> 00:13:07.913
And then the war ends.
00:13:08.153 --> 00:13:09.538
And so he makes his way.
00:13:09.557 --> 00:13:10.460
How does he make his way
00:13:10.500 --> 00:13:12.085
back to Philadelphia from New York?
00:13:12.789 --> 00:13:14.831
Well, when he's released from the Jersey,
00:13:14.890 --> 00:13:16.111
he actually walks all the
00:13:16.172 --> 00:13:19.413
way back from New York to Philadelphia,
00:13:20.154 --> 00:13:21.556
walks across New Jersey.
00:13:22.035 --> 00:13:22.976
There's a story that he
00:13:23.017 --> 00:13:25.477
received some assistance in Trenton,
00:13:25.518 --> 00:13:26.239
New Jersey,
00:13:27.519 --> 00:13:29.100
but about 100 miles that he
00:13:29.140 --> 00:13:30.682
journeys back and he comes
00:13:30.741 --> 00:13:32.743
back home to his mother and his sister.
00:13:33.102 --> 00:13:36.885
His father had died in about 1773,
00:13:36.885 --> 00:13:37.745
but he comes back home to
00:13:37.785 --> 00:13:38.547
his mother and sister,
00:13:38.586 --> 00:13:40.427
who I bet were just shocked to see him.
00:13:40.947 --> 00:13:41.889
That he was still alive.
00:13:41.908 --> 00:13:42.208
Oh, right.
00:13:42.408 --> 00:13:44.169
Oh, yeah.
00:13:44.330 --> 00:13:44.951
But yeah,
00:13:45.291 --> 00:13:48.572
he makes it back and continues to
00:13:48.613 --> 00:13:49.633
live in Philadelphia.
00:13:49.653 --> 00:13:52.274
He briefly travels with some
00:13:52.294 --> 00:13:54.275
family members to England
00:13:54.375 --> 00:13:54.976
on a brief voyage,
00:13:55.017 --> 00:13:55.716
but comes back to
00:13:55.756 --> 00:13:56.977
Philadelphia after that.
00:13:58.357 --> 00:13:59.318
And then he apprentices
00:13:59.379 --> 00:14:02.580
himself to his father's old boss,
00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:03.240
actually.
00:14:03.301 --> 00:14:04.801
And that's a white sailmaker
00:14:04.841 --> 00:14:05.981
named Robert Bridges,
00:14:06.942 --> 00:14:09.082
a prominent sailmaker in Philadelphia.
00:14:09.903 --> 00:14:12.764
And James Fortin works his
00:14:12.804 --> 00:14:14.206
way up the ladder of that
00:14:14.905 --> 00:14:16.647
sailmaking company and
00:14:16.687 --> 00:14:19.067
becomes the foreman of Bridges' shop,
00:14:19.288 --> 00:14:21.149
which included a workforce
00:14:21.188 --> 00:14:22.149
of about 30 men.
00:14:22.230 --> 00:14:23.671
It was an integrated workforce.
00:14:24.811 --> 00:14:26.971
But now as sort of his right hand man,
00:14:27.032 --> 00:14:28.091
Robert Bridges appoints a
00:14:28.131 --> 00:14:30.832
young African-American man, James Fortin,
00:14:30.852 --> 00:14:31.633
to be the foreman.
00:14:33.754 --> 00:14:36.014
And this is an amazing,
00:14:36.654 --> 00:14:37.774
really amazing story.
00:14:38.575 --> 00:14:42.155
And when Robert Bridges is
00:14:42.235 --> 00:14:43.417
thinking about what's next
00:14:43.456 --> 00:14:45.456
for his own life and he's
00:14:45.476 --> 00:14:46.557
thinking about retirement,
00:14:47.197 --> 00:14:48.837
he wants his own sons to do
00:14:48.878 --> 00:14:50.219
better than working with their hands.
00:14:50.259 --> 00:14:50.999
He wants them to be
00:14:51.259 --> 00:14:53.620
merchants or doctors or lawyers.
00:14:54.500 --> 00:14:54.860
Oftentimes,
00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:57.202
usually those opportunities are
00:14:57.283 --> 00:15:01.986
denied for African-Americans at the time.
00:15:02.567 --> 00:15:05.269
But James Fortin is given
00:15:05.289 --> 00:15:06.230
the opportunity to take
00:15:06.331 --> 00:15:07.030
over the business.
00:15:07.091 --> 00:15:07.871
And he takes that
00:15:07.912 --> 00:15:09.474
opportunity from Bridges
00:15:10.134 --> 00:15:11.615
and leads that sail making
00:15:11.654 --> 00:15:12.655
business from 1798 until
00:15:12.655 --> 00:15:12.976
1842 when he dies.
00:15:12.996 --> 00:15:13.897
So almost 45 years.
00:15:13.917 --> 00:15:13.998
Wow.
00:15:18.792 --> 00:15:20.494
Wow, that is a long career.
00:15:20.573 --> 00:15:21.134
And in that time,
00:15:21.153 --> 00:15:22.835
he becomes very successful
00:15:22.895 --> 00:15:24.836
with the sale making business.
00:15:24.856 --> 00:15:25.778
You had some sale making
00:15:25.837 --> 00:15:26.899
tools in your exhibit,
00:15:26.918 --> 00:15:28.039
which was kind of neat to see.
00:15:28.700 --> 00:15:30.440
the tools in the trade.
00:15:31.140 --> 00:15:31.280
Yeah,
00:15:31.301 --> 00:15:35.221
we tried to give visitors a sense of
00:15:35.701 --> 00:15:37.182
the sale making trade and
00:15:37.282 --> 00:15:38.642
what Fortin would have been
00:15:38.682 --> 00:15:40.302
doing on a daily basis
00:15:40.403 --> 00:15:41.842
alongside his workers.
00:15:43.102 --> 00:15:46.464
There are just a few paper
00:15:46.663 --> 00:15:48.205
remnants of his business.
00:15:48.225 --> 00:15:50.024
They're receipts of James
00:15:50.065 --> 00:15:50.845
Fortin's work that he's
00:15:50.884 --> 00:15:52.245
doing that we were able to put on view,
00:15:52.326 --> 00:15:53.326
original receipts.
00:15:53.865 --> 00:15:56.528
But we also recreated a
00:15:57.589 --> 00:16:00.091
portion of what James
00:16:00.110 --> 00:16:01.171
Forten's sail loft might
00:16:01.191 --> 00:16:01.871
have looked like.
00:16:02.672 --> 00:16:04.453
And this was a hands-on
00:16:04.614 --> 00:16:07.395
activity space facilitated
00:16:07.456 --> 00:16:09.356
by our talented educators
00:16:09.636 --> 00:16:10.538
here at the museum.
00:16:11.138 --> 00:16:12.158
And so you could try your
00:16:12.198 --> 00:16:13.340
hand at some stitching.
00:16:13.379 --> 00:16:16.802
You could feel sailcloth sit
00:16:16.861 --> 00:16:18.003
at a sailmaker's bench.
00:16:18.563 --> 00:16:21.285
And adjacent to that was a display case
00:16:22.591 --> 00:16:23.432
And you can see this in the
00:16:23.511 --> 00:16:25.232
online exhibit of original
00:16:25.293 --> 00:16:26.332
sailmaking tools,
00:16:26.753 --> 00:16:27.874
not James Fortin's tools,
00:16:27.933 --> 00:16:29.173
but tools of the period.
00:16:29.614 --> 00:16:30.315
And these are actually
00:16:30.735 --> 00:16:33.134
recovered from a shipwreck
00:16:34.076 --> 00:16:35.456
called the HMS DeBrock,
00:16:35.495 --> 00:16:37.277
which sank in 1798.
00:16:37.277 --> 00:16:38.076
Just happens to be the same
00:16:38.116 --> 00:16:39.037
year that James Fortin took
00:16:39.057 --> 00:16:40.197
over the sailmaking business.
00:16:41.998 --> 00:16:43.337
And so they're of the period.
00:16:43.357 --> 00:16:46.078
So it was neat to be able to
00:16:46.379 --> 00:16:48.999
have the documents, the replica tools,
00:16:49.419 --> 00:16:50.580
and then the original tools
00:16:50.779 --> 00:16:52.179
all working together to
00:16:52.220 --> 00:16:53.080
interpret that story.
00:16:56.301 --> 00:16:56.760
Interesting.
00:16:57.061 --> 00:16:58.400
We're talking with Matthew Skick,
00:16:58.441 --> 00:16:59.721
the curator of exhibitions
00:16:59.780 --> 00:17:01.562
at the Museum of the American Revolution,
00:17:02.121 --> 00:17:02.961
and talking about their
00:17:03.022 --> 00:17:04.281
exhibit on Black Pounders,
00:17:04.321 --> 00:17:06.123
the Fortin family of Philadelphia.
00:17:06.143 --> 00:17:08.022
And cell making was really essential to
00:17:08.580 --> 00:17:10.082
this maritime economy.
00:17:10.142 --> 00:17:11.021
So you can see what an
00:17:11.082 --> 00:17:12.162
important thing this is
00:17:12.201 --> 00:17:14.083
that James Fortin's engaged
00:17:14.143 --> 00:17:16.663
in then for almost half a century.
00:17:16.763 --> 00:17:17.203
And again,
00:17:17.243 --> 00:17:18.824
his father had been a sailmaker
00:17:18.884 --> 00:17:20.825
before him, and he inherits this business,
00:17:20.884 --> 00:17:21.904
or he takes over the
00:17:21.944 --> 00:17:23.586
business from Robert Bridges,
00:17:23.645 --> 00:17:26.086
which is a great story of
00:17:26.227 --> 00:17:28.186
someone going into this
00:17:28.267 --> 00:17:29.387
business and running it
00:17:29.488 --> 00:17:31.909
successfully for such a
00:17:31.969 --> 00:17:33.269
long period of time during
00:17:33.288 --> 00:17:34.789
this period of great transition.
00:17:36.505 --> 00:17:37.246
And again, as he said,
00:17:37.266 --> 00:17:38.445
he becomes very successful.
00:17:38.826 --> 00:17:40.748
And then he is also very
00:17:40.788 --> 00:17:42.308
much involved in some of
00:17:42.368 --> 00:17:44.131
the emerging political movements.
00:17:44.211 --> 00:17:45.391
I didn't realize until I
00:17:45.971 --> 00:17:47.333
looked through the exhibit
00:17:47.413 --> 00:17:50.494
that he was one of the real
00:17:51.516 --> 00:17:52.836
backers of William Lloyd
00:17:52.856 --> 00:17:54.837
Garrison's newspaper, The Liberator,
00:17:54.877 --> 00:17:55.057
in the 1830s.
00:17:56.576 --> 00:17:57.036
Exactly.
00:17:57.516 --> 00:17:59.017
It's a little known fact
00:17:59.096 --> 00:18:01.436
about Fortin and the
00:18:01.477 --> 00:18:03.157
history of the Liberator.
00:18:04.097 --> 00:18:06.118
Despite being separated by a
00:18:06.378 --> 00:18:08.519
generation in terms of
00:18:08.578 --> 00:18:09.599
years and their age,
00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:11.319
James Fortin and William
00:18:11.339 --> 00:18:14.260
Lloyd Garrison struck up a friendship,
00:18:14.961 --> 00:18:16.362
which led to...
00:18:18.041 --> 00:18:19.623
a lot of correspondence between the two.
00:18:20.143 --> 00:18:22.984
And when you are looking for,
00:18:23.065 --> 00:18:24.085
and as I was doing,
00:18:24.105 --> 00:18:25.726
trying to find where are
00:18:25.865 --> 00:18:26.727
all of James Fortin's
00:18:26.807 --> 00:18:28.106
papers and his writings and
00:18:28.327 --> 00:18:28.928
that sort of thing,
00:18:30.108 --> 00:18:31.568
you realize that the
00:18:31.669 --> 00:18:33.170
largest grouping of James
00:18:33.230 --> 00:18:34.431
Fortin's writings,
00:18:34.730 --> 00:18:35.550
his letters that he's writing,
00:18:35.932 --> 00:18:36.672
is in the William Lloyd
00:18:36.692 --> 00:18:37.571
Garrison papers at the
00:18:37.612 --> 00:18:38.893
Boston Public Library.
00:18:40.213 --> 00:18:42.855
And so looking through that
00:18:42.914 --> 00:18:44.516
correspondence between
00:18:44.536 --> 00:18:45.777
Garrison and Fortin,
00:18:47.116 --> 00:18:48.317
it's pretty revealing about
00:18:48.417 --> 00:18:49.557
what James Fortin was doing
00:18:49.577 --> 00:18:51.759
to help kickstart the Liberator,
00:18:51.878 --> 00:18:52.919
which was William Lloyd
00:18:52.939 --> 00:18:54.319
Garrison's idea to create a
00:18:54.400 --> 00:18:56.480
national scale abolitionist
00:18:56.519 --> 00:19:00.501
newspaper that wouldn't hold back,
00:19:00.541 --> 00:19:03.883
that was going to be targeting people,
00:19:03.942 --> 00:19:06.182
would be extremely critical
00:19:06.542 --> 00:19:08.403
of the expansion of slavery
00:19:08.423 --> 00:19:09.364
in the United States.
00:19:10.105 --> 00:19:10.224
And
00:19:11.625 --> 00:19:12.065
Fortin,
00:19:12.425 --> 00:19:13.865
there's a wonderful letter where
00:19:13.905 --> 00:19:15.126
Fortin is kind of wishing
00:19:16.107 --> 00:19:17.367
William Lloyd Garrison well
00:19:17.428 --> 00:19:18.169
and hoping that this
00:19:19.169 --> 00:19:20.450
newspaper can be a voice to
00:19:20.490 --> 00:19:21.570
the abolitionist movement.
00:19:22.111 --> 00:19:25.553
But Fortin is also trying to
00:19:25.792 --> 00:19:26.452
secure the first
00:19:26.492 --> 00:19:27.614
subscriptions for that
00:19:27.653 --> 00:19:29.414
newspaper here in Philadelphia.
00:19:30.188 --> 00:19:31.528
literally knocking on doors
00:19:31.868 --> 00:19:33.809
in the Black community,
00:19:34.210 --> 00:19:35.550
in the abolitionist
00:19:35.570 --> 00:19:36.971
community here in the city,
00:19:37.731 --> 00:19:39.573
and is one of the first
00:19:39.633 --> 00:19:41.673
financial backers of the
00:19:41.713 --> 00:19:43.535
Liberator to help kickstart
00:19:43.595 --> 00:19:45.076
it for Garrison.
00:19:45.115 --> 00:19:46.876
It becomes extremely successful.
00:19:47.678 --> 00:19:50.138
And from the perspective of
00:19:50.459 --> 00:19:52.599
many slave owners and
00:19:52.660 --> 00:19:54.101
supporters of slavery in
00:19:54.121 --> 00:19:56.721
the United States, in their eyes,
00:19:56.741 --> 00:19:58.303
it's sort of a demon because it's...
00:19:59.824 --> 00:20:00.183
In their eyes,
00:20:00.263 --> 00:20:01.045
it's sort of inciting
00:20:01.105 --> 00:20:04.988
rebellion and that sort of thing.
00:20:06.549 --> 00:20:06.970
Even so,
00:20:07.009 --> 00:20:09.251
when the Nat Turner revolt happens,
00:20:10.952 --> 00:20:12.615
Fortin and Garrison
00:20:12.694 --> 00:20:14.375
correspond about that.
00:20:15.297 --> 00:20:17.058
And Garrison is seen as this
00:20:17.459 --> 00:20:20.421
instigator of revolts like this.
00:20:20.540 --> 00:20:22.083
And Fortin, in some cases,
00:20:22.143 --> 00:20:24.223
is seen as an instigator too.
00:20:24.924 --> 00:20:27.027
But there's a really amazing letter
00:20:27.507 --> 00:20:28.586
that James Fortin writes to
00:20:28.606 --> 00:20:32.228
Garrison that fall after the revolt,
00:20:32.407 --> 00:20:34.088
news of the revolt is spreading.
00:20:34.689 --> 00:20:35.368
And he says,
00:20:36.229 --> 00:20:38.528
every day there's a new effort
00:20:38.588 --> 00:20:41.410
for liberty, either at home or abroad.
00:20:42.250 --> 00:20:44.590
And what he says to Garrison is, onward,
00:20:44.891 --> 00:20:46.730
onward is indeed the watchword.
00:20:48.192 --> 00:20:49.711
Just an incredible letter.
00:20:50.311 --> 00:20:52.673
He's very forward thinking, you know,
00:20:52.893 --> 00:20:53.913
in his efforts.
00:20:53.972 --> 00:20:54.492
Yes, he is.
00:20:55.970 --> 00:20:56.109
Yeah.
00:20:56.309 --> 00:20:57.109
And he also had a
00:20:57.150 --> 00:20:58.471
relationship with Paul Cuffee,
00:20:58.490 --> 00:21:00.750
who was a mariner from Nantucket,
00:21:00.810 --> 00:21:01.510
New Bedford.
00:21:01.791 --> 00:21:05.231
And Cuffee, he's a whaler.
00:21:05.272 --> 00:21:05.992
And I wonder if you want to
00:21:06.012 --> 00:21:07.593
talk about that relationship, Matthew.
00:21:08.292 --> 00:21:08.532
Yes.
00:21:08.752 --> 00:21:09.094
Yeah.
00:21:09.233 --> 00:21:10.953
And another active
00:21:11.013 --> 00:21:12.413
correspondence that Fortin
00:21:12.433 --> 00:21:14.714
has is with Cuffee.
00:21:15.315 --> 00:21:18.195
And so it was
00:21:18.672 --> 00:21:22.798
Because of Cuffee's work and owning a ship,
00:21:23.180 --> 00:21:23.901
a merchant ship,
00:21:24.481 --> 00:21:25.963
it's coming into Philadelphia.
00:21:28.826 --> 00:21:30.027
the correspondence that
00:21:30.507 --> 00:21:32.126
Cuffee and Fortin have
00:21:32.887 --> 00:21:35.269
really clues us into, in this case,
00:21:35.388 --> 00:21:36.849
Fortin is the younger of
00:21:36.869 --> 00:21:39.330
the person in this relationship now.
00:21:40.070 --> 00:21:41.592
And he's learning a lot from
00:21:41.692 --> 00:21:42.531
Paul Cuffee and his
00:21:42.592 --> 00:21:44.133
experience in New England,
00:21:44.673 --> 00:21:46.973
his experience as a merchant,
00:21:47.513 --> 00:21:48.755
as a successful business owner,
00:21:48.795 --> 00:21:49.295
essentially.
00:21:49.315 --> 00:21:53.176
And what Cuffee is also
00:21:54.076 --> 00:21:55.498
discussing with Fortin is
00:21:55.557 --> 00:21:56.897
the idea that would become
00:21:56.917 --> 00:21:57.979
known as colonization.
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:02.202
And that is people of
00:22:02.282 --> 00:22:03.305
African descent in the
00:22:03.325 --> 00:22:07.891
United States who may be be
00:22:07.951 --> 00:22:10.032
enslaved or or free,
00:22:10.493 --> 00:22:12.836
but actually moving them to
00:22:13.417 --> 00:22:14.558
colonies in Africa.
00:22:15.180 --> 00:22:16.641
or the Caribbean to separate
00:22:16.681 --> 00:22:17.261
them from the white
00:22:17.301 --> 00:22:18.423
population of the United States.
00:22:18.482 --> 00:22:20.344
And initially Cuffee and
00:22:20.443 --> 00:22:22.365
Fortin are supportive of
00:22:22.405 --> 00:22:24.207
this effort due to the
00:22:24.307 --> 00:22:27.549
racial prejudice and the expanding, uh,
00:22:27.730 --> 00:22:29.412
slavery, uh, in the United States.
00:22:30.372 --> 00:22:32.314
Um, and, uh,
00:22:32.453 --> 00:22:34.154
Cuffee is very influential in
00:22:34.415 --> 00:22:35.997
Fortin's thinking about that.
00:22:37.157 --> 00:22:37.218
Um,
00:22:37.748 --> 00:22:40.409
But Fortin has a change of
00:22:40.489 --> 00:22:41.650
mind that happens in the
00:22:41.670 --> 00:22:44.510
18-teens in which the
00:22:44.631 --> 00:22:45.692
American Colonization
00:22:45.731 --> 00:22:47.071
Society is on the rise.
00:22:48.093 --> 00:22:50.713
Fortin is influenced by the
00:22:51.374 --> 00:22:53.015
Black population of Philadelphia,
00:22:53.055 --> 00:22:53.914
who's very much against
00:22:53.974 --> 00:22:55.415
this idea of colonization.
00:22:55.875 --> 00:22:56.875
Why should we be forced to
00:22:56.915 --> 00:22:58.636
leave the country we fought to create?
00:22:59.397 --> 00:23:01.478
And Fortin started writing that,
00:23:01.617 --> 00:23:03.919
and he became an opponent
00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:04.680
of colonization.
00:23:05.509 --> 00:23:07.810
This is well after Cuffee had passed away.
00:23:08.731 --> 00:23:10.153
But what's also interesting
00:23:10.173 --> 00:23:12.433
is that Fortin's business
00:23:13.054 --> 00:23:15.335
is supporting Cuffee as well.
00:23:15.355 --> 00:23:16.536
There's a receipt in Paul
00:23:16.576 --> 00:23:17.817
Cuffee's papers at the New
00:23:17.856 --> 00:23:19.357
Bedford Free Public Library
00:23:19.377 --> 00:23:22.739
in Massachusetts that is a
00:23:22.838 --> 00:23:24.420
receipt documenting that
00:23:24.500 --> 00:23:25.861
James Fortin's sailmaking
00:23:25.921 --> 00:23:28.122
shop was repairing sails
00:23:28.301 --> 00:23:30.703
for Paul Cuffee's ship, the Traveler.
00:23:31.584 --> 00:23:33.224
So we had that on display in
00:23:33.244 --> 00:23:33.944
the exhibit as well,
00:23:33.984 --> 00:23:34.766
that original receipt.
00:23:36.963 --> 00:23:40.105
That's an interesting relationship.
00:23:40.125 --> 00:23:40.787
You really found some
00:23:40.807 --> 00:23:42.409
interesting things for this exhibit.
00:23:42.429 --> 00:23:44.329
You had a model made of the
00:23:44.450 --> 00:23:48.114
Royal Lewis and yet another ship model,
00:23:48.394 --> 00:23:49.275
too, on display.
00:23:49.295 --> 00:23:51.737
I mean, it was really good visually,
00:23:51.876 --> 00:23:52.738
the things you had,
00:23:53.258 --> 00:23:54.278
as well as some documents
00:23:54.298 --> 00:23:56.000
you had borrowed from the United Kingdom.
00:23:56.933 --> 00:23:57.413
Exactly.
00:23:57.453 --> 00:23:59.395
That was among my favorite
00:23:59.415 --> 00:24:01.396
things in the exhibit was that ship model,
00:24:01.436 --> 00:24:04.858
which was a scale model of
00:24:04.898 --> 00:24:05.779
the Royal Lewis.
00:24:06.921 --> 00:24:09.182
We were able to work with a
00:24:09.521 --> 00:24:10.583
ship model builder who's
00:24:10.643 --> 00:24:12.605
extremely talented named Rex Stewart.
00:24:12.644 --> 00:24:14.045
He's based in Albany, New York.
00:24:15.365 --> 00:24:16.926
And that ship model is now
00:24:17.027 --> 00:24:18.327
on display in our core
00:24:18.367 --> 00:24:19.548
exhibit at the museum.
00:24:19.969 --> 00:24:21.711
So it lives on in that way.
00:24:22.290 --> 00:24:23.551
But the ship model itself
00:24:24.132 --> 00:24:26.012
helped to bring to life, in a way,
00:24:27.114 --> 00:24:28.834
the documents that we had on
00:24:29.273 --> 00:24:30.855
display adjacent to that.
00:24:31.335 --> 00:24:33.355
And that was the original
00:24:33.714 --> 00:24:34.976
letter of mark for the
00:24:35.016 --> 00:24:37.236
Royal Lewis that was issued
00:24:37.276 --> 00:24:38.615
by the Continental Congress
00:24:38.915 --> 00:24:41.136
in July of 1781 to Captain
00:24:41.176 --> 00:24:41.997
Stephen Decatur.
00:24:43.037 --> 00:24:44.777
And that came to the exhibit
00:24:44.916 --> 00:24:45.657
all the way from the
00:24:45.698 --> 00:24:47.178
National Archives of the United Kingdom.
00:24:47.978 --> 00:24:49.258
So why was it there?
00:24:49.397 --> 00:24:51.159
Because it was captured.
00:24:51.239 --> 00:24:52.679
Right, exactly.
00:24:52.919 --> 00:24:53.378
Exactly.
00:24:53.996 --> 00:24:55.196
It was in the Board of
00:24:55.297 --> 00:24:57.358
Admiralty papers at the
00:24:57.798 --> 00:24:59.701
National Archives of the
00:24:59.780 --> 00:25:01.782
United Kingdom over in Kew.
00:25:02.743 --> 00:25:04.164
And this is the first time
00:25:04.184 --> 00:25:05.066
that that letter of marque
00:25:05.125 --> 00:25:07.268
is back in the United States since 1781.
00:25:07.268 --> 00:25:08.909
So just think about that.
00:25:08.929 --> 00:25:09.430
Isn't that cool?
00:25:10.351 --> 00:25:10.770
That's great.
00:25:11.392 --> 00:25:11.892
That's great.
00:25:12.392 --> 00:25:13.113
And then you also
00:25:13.534 --> 00:25:14.795
commissioned Don Troiani to
00:25:14.815 --> 00:25:16.016
do a painting.
00:25:16.036 --> 00:25:17.076
There's one of the other
00:25:17.116 --> 00:25:18.337
seminal events in America.
00:25:19.266 --> 00:25:21.088
Horton's life was a boy was
00:25:21.189 --> 00:25:22.811
seeing the Rhode Island
00:25:22.852 --> 00:25:24.654
regiment marching through Philadelphia.
00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:26.079
Exactly.
00:25:26.099 --> 00:25:26.319
Yep.
00:25:26.740 --> 00:25:29.421
And so this is on September 2nd, 1781.
00:25:29.800 --> 00:25:32.261
This is the brief period when,
00:25:32.362 --> 00:25:34.001
in which James Fortin is
00:25:34.061 --> 00:25:35.042
just about to leave for the
00:25:35.143 --> 00:25:37.323
second voyage of the Royal Lewis.
00:25:37.343 --> 00:25:38.584
So it's that in-between
00:25:38.624 --> 00:25:39.564
period of the first voyage
00:25:39.604 --> 00:25:40.403
and the second voyage.
00:25:40.943 --> 00:25:41.844
And it just happens to be
00:25:41.884 --> 00:25:45.684
his 15th birthday, September 2nd, 1781.
00:25:45.684 --> 00:25:47.645
And George Washington's army
00:25:48.006 --> 00:25:51.207
marching down from New Jersey and,
00:25:51.988 --> 00:25:55.273
and New York down through Philadelphia,
00:25:55.334 --> 00:25:58.057
passes through the city on that day,
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:00.082
and James Fortin is there.
00:26:01.146 --> 00:26:02.508
And he is among the
00:26:02.788 --> 00:26:03.848
thousands of people that
00:26:03.888 --> 00:26:06.250
turn out to watch the army march through.
00:26:06.911 --> 00:26:07.811
Little do these people know
00:26:07.832 --> 00:26:09.373
that they're going to go
00:26:09.553 --> 00:26:10.353
and fight the siege of
00:26:10.393 --> 00:26:13.095
Yorktown later that fall.
00:26:14.096 --> 00:26:16.958
And so what stands out in
00:26:17.298 --> 00:26:18.699
James Fortin's mind is
00:26:18.818 --> 00:26:22.040
seeing men of African descent,
00:26:22.422 --> 00:26:23.903
Native American men in the
00:26:23.942 --> 00:26:25.344
ranks of the Continental Army.
00:26:25.364 --> 00:26:25.564
Right.
00:26:26.124 --> 00:26:26.944
some of which are in
00:26:27.085 --> 00:26:29.067
integrated regiments from
00:26:29.667 --> 00:26:31.630
New England and the Mid-Atlantic.
00:26:32.510 --> 00:26:34.814
But also he points out in
00:26:34.834 --> 00:26:36.055
some of his writings later
00:26:36.214 --> 00:26:37.136
on that he remembered
00:26:37.277 --> 00:26:38.939
seeing one of the New
00:26:38.979 --> 00:26:41.741
England regiments that had full companies
00:26:42.643 --> 00:26:45.345
of soldiers of color.
00:26:46.266 --> 00:26:50.209
And this is a reference to
00:26:50.249 --> 00:26:51.390
the Rhode Island regiment,
00:26:51.971 --> 00:26:54.152
which was a consolidation
00:26:54.192 --> 00:26:55.252
of the first and second
00:26:55.292 --> 00:26:56.273
Rhode Island regiments.
00:26:57.035 --> 00:26:58.276
And this New Rhode Island
00:26:58.316 --> 00:27:01.077
regiment had two full
00:27:01.117 --> 00:27:03.220
companies of enlisted men
00:27:04.000 --> 00:27:05.422
of African and Native
00:27:05.461 --> 00:27:08.163
American descent led by white officers.
00:27:09.204 --> 00:27:12.367
And in one letter to William
00:27:12.407 --> 00:27:13.690
Lloyd Garrison later in life,
00:27:13.789 --> 00:27:15.932
James Fortin conveys this memory.
00:27:16.833 --> 00:27:17.452
And he says,
00:27:17.512 --> 00:27:19.454
I well remembered well
00:27:19.515 --> 00:27:20.695
remember when Washington's
00:27:20.737 --> 00:27:21.798
army marched through
00:27:21.857 --> 00:27:23.839
Philadelphia and he saw
00:27:24.259 --> 00:27:25.401
this regiment that had
00:27:25.441 --> 00:27:27.583
these companies of of of
00:27:27.663 --> 00:27:28.523
black men and Native
00:27:28.564 --> 00:27:29.964
American men marching along.
00:27:30.645 --> 00:27:31.768
And he remembered that these
00:27:31.827 --> 00:27:33.810
were as brave men as ever fought.
00:27:34.270 --> 00:27:35.732
So that gave title to a
00:27:35.752 --> 00:27:36.554
painting that we
00:27:36.594 --> 00:27:38.277
commissioned by Don Troiani
00:27:38.297 --> 00:27:39.578
to recreate this moment,
00:27:39.598 --> 00:27:41.181
15-year-old James Fortin
00:27:41.601 --> 00:27:43.483
standing near the facade of
00:27:43.523 --> 00:27:44.325
Independence Hall.
00:27:45.256 --> 00:27:46.797
watching the Rhode Island March,
00:27:46.836 --> 00:27:47.777
Rhode Island Regiment march
00:27:47.817 --> 00:27:49.298
down Chestnut Street.
00:27:50.278 --> 00:27:51.618
So pretty moving painting
00:27:51.638 --> 00:27:52.599
that's part of the museum's
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:53.519
collection now.
00:27:54.221 --> 00:27:54.840
And we were able to
00:27:54.881 --> 00:27:56.461
commission it with funding
00:27:56.521 --> 00:27:57.902
from the Washington
00:27:58.323 --> 00:27:59.403
Rochambeau Revolutionary
00:27:59.423 --> 00:28:00.824
Route National Historic
00:28:00.903 --> 00:28:03.565
Trail Park Service.
00:28:04.625 --> 00:28:05.026
That's great.
00:28:05.246 --> 00:28:06.386
We're talking with Matthew Skagg.
00:28:06.446 --> 00:28:07.426
It's great that you have all
00:28:07.467 --> 00:28:08.167
of these events that
00:28:08.208 --> 00:28:09.067
happened really right
00:28:09.107 --> 00:28:10.648
around where the museum is
00:28:11.169 --> 00:28:11.788
on the streets.
00:28:12.490 --> 00:28:12.630
Right.
00:28:13.644 --> 00:28:14.404
It's, yeah,
00:28:14.424 --> 00:28:15.766
the Army marched right past
00:28:15.786 --> 00:28:17.105
where the museum is today.
00:28:17.125 --> 00:28:17.326
You know,
00:28:17.346 --> 00:28:18.247
we're right in the heart of
00:28:18.287 --> 00:28:19.487
historic Philadelphia,
00:28:20.366 --> 00:28:22.008
two blocks away from Independence Hall,
00:28:22.048 --> 00:28:23.647
a block away from Carpenter's Hall.
00:28:24.167 --> 00:28:25.628
So when visitors come to
00:28:25.709 --> 00:28:27.088
Philadelphia and they want
00:28:27.388 --> 00:28:28.569
this rich and dynamic
00:28:28.630 --> 00:28:31.451
experience in encountering
00:28:31.490 --> 00:28:33.351
the American Revolution here in the city,
00:28:33.871 --> 00:28:34.852
you can come to the Museum
00:28:34.872 --> 00:28:35.711
of the American Revolution.
00:28:35.751 --> 00:28:36.632
It sort of ties these
00:28:36.672 --> 00:28:38.012
historic sites together in
00:28:38.053 --> 00:28:40.673
a way to tell the story of
00:28:41.114 --> 00:28:41.673
the revolution.
00:28:44.008 --> 00:28:44.588
Yes, it does.
00:28:45.548 --> 00:28:47.611
And you said that Fortin,
00:28:48.291 --> 00:28:49.692
from the beginning of the museum,
00:28:49.732 --> 00:28:51.615
you've made him one of the
00:28:51.815 --> 00:28:52.996
focal points because he
00:28:53.036 --> 00:28:54.718
does have this story that
00:28:55.157 --> 00:28:56.259
captivates particularly
00:28:56.278 --> 00:28:56.980
young people from
00:28:57.019 --> 00:28:58.821
Philadelphia coming into the museum.
00:28:59.884 --> 00:29:00.503
Exactly right.
00:29:00.544 --> 00:29:02.223
Yeah, it's a local story.
00:29:02.565 --> 00:29:04.025
He's a Philadelphian, which is great.
00:29:04.865 --> 00:29:07.365
He grew up in the neighborhood, basically.
00:29:08.526 --> 00:29:10.586
And then in one of the most
00:29:10.645 --> 00:29:12.066
popular parts of our core
00:29:12.125 --> 00:29:14.606
exhibit at the museum is
00:29:15.507 --> 00:29:17.307
the bow or the front half
00:29:17.827 --> 00:29:19.607
of a privateer vessel that
00:29:19.627 --> 00:29:20.627
you can go aboard.
00:29:22.127 --> 00:29:23.689
And it's a great spot for
00:29:23.749 --> 00:29:24.469
our school tours.
00:29:25.388 --> 00:29:27.690
and other student groups that come.
00:29:28.309 --> 00:29:29.730
And oftentimes our educators
00:29:29.769 --> 00:29:31.349
are sharing the story of
00:29:31.450 --> 00:29:33.131
James Fortin aboard that
00:29:33.191 --> 00:29:35.530
ship because they're talking to, you know,
00:29:35.570 --> 00:29:36.691
fourth and fifth graders or
00:29:36.730 --> 00:29:38.031
middle schoolers, high schoolers,
00:29:38.352 --> 00:29:39.451
some of whom are very close
00:29:39.471 --> 00:29:40.711
in age to what Fortin was
00:29:40.852 --> 00:29:42.172
when he was on that ship.
00:29:42.511 --> 00:29:43.593
Because he was 15 when he
00:29:43.613 --> 00:29:44.593
was aboard that ship.
00:29:44.712 --> 00:29:45.053
Exactly.
00:29:45.073 --> 00:29:45.353
Yeah.
00:29:45.472 --> 00:29:47.252
He joins at 14 and serves
00:29:47.492 --> 00:29:48.794
into his 15th year.
00:29:49.054 --> 00:29:49.653
And, um,
00:29:50.413 --> 00:29:54.115
And so he is approximately their age.
00:29:54.256 --> 00:29:55.155
And, you know,
00:29:55.736 --> 00:29:57.317
we encourage students to
00:29:57.376 --> 00:29:59.057
kind of put themselves in
00:29:59.377 --> 00:30:00.979
his shoes and imagine being
00:30:01.019 --> 00:30:02.098
in that situation.
00:30:02.959 --> 00:30:04.000
It's tough to imagine.
00:30:04.700 --> 00:30:08.701
And but we can build
00:30:08.761 --> 00:30:10.923
historical empathy in that way.
00:30:11.923 --> 00:30:13.285
By sharing a story like
00:30:13.345 --> 00:30:15.467
Fortin's and also to share
00:30:15.508 --> 00:30:17.009
that these were real people
00:30:17.249 --> 00:30:18.411
making real decisions.
00:30:18.750 --> 00:30:21.173
It just happened nearly 250 years ago.
00:30:22.654 --> 00:30:24.056
But these were decisions
00:30:24.096 --> 00:30:25.337
that weren't just impacting
00:30:25.377 --> 00:30:26.019
their own lives,
00:30:26.058 --> 00:30:27.160
but impacting others like
00:30:27.819 --> 00:30:29.962
Fortin's effort to let
00:30:30.022 --> 00:30:31.084
Daniel Bruton go in that
00:30:31.163 --> 00:30:32.585
sea chest instead of himself.
00:30:33.685 --> 00:30:34.846
It's a selfless act,
00:30:35.247 --> 00:30:36.787
an act of courage and bravery.
00:30:37.988 --> 00:30:40.607
So these are, you know, longstanding and,
00:30:40.647 --> 00:30:40.928
you know,
00:30:41.229 --> 00:30:43.009
still relevant decisions to
00:30:43.328 --> 00:30:44.549
helping students understand
00:30:44.890 --> 00:30:45.910
their own decision making
00:30:45.950 --> 00:30:46.690
in their daily lives.
00:30:46.710 --> 00:30:47.691
Right.
00:30:47.711 --> 00:30:47.851
Right.
00:30:48.570 --> 00:30:49.891
This is these choices that
00:30:49.951 --> 00:30:50.771
people are making.
00:30:50.811 --> 00:30:52.311
We're talking with Matthew Stick,
00:30:52.392 --> 00:30:53.952
the curator of exhibitions
00:30:53.992 --> 00:30:54.692
at the Museum of the
00:30:54.712 --> 00:30:57.153
American Revolution in Philadelphia.
00:30:58.771 --> 00:30:59.532
Let's talk about,
00:30:59.593 --> 00:31:01.054
you just opened a new
00:31:01.114 --> 00:31:02.695
exhibit on Washington's tent,
00:31:02.756 --> 00:31:03.936
and that's been kind of the
00:31:03.977 --> 00:31:05.377
centerpiece of the museum
00:31:05.518 --> 00:31:06.398
since the beginning.
00:31:06.558 --> 00:31:08.141
And what other exhibits do
00:31:08.181 --> 00:31:10.363
we have in the offing for the museum?
00:31:11.413 --> 00:31:12.674
Yeah, so Witness to Revolution,
00:31:12.694 --> 00:31:13.755
The Unlikely Travels of
00:31:13.815 --> 00:31:14.734
Washington's Tent just
00:31:14.855 --> 00:31:17.395
opened in February of 2024.
00:31:17.395 --> 00:31:18.297
And that's an exhibit that
00:31:18.336 --> 00:31:19.356
tells the story of how
00:31:19.557 --> 00:31:20.337
George Washington's
00:31:20.377 --> 00:31:21.698
headquarters tent got from
00:31:21.718 --> 00:31:23.159
the Revolutionary War to
00:31:23.199 --> 00:31:24.679
the Museum of the American Revolution.
00:31:24.699 --> 00:31:26.779
So our award-winning tent
00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:28.441
theater experience is...
00:31:30.602 --> 00:31:32.102
just the tip of the iceberg
00:31:32.221 --> 00:31:33.803
of that really compelling story.
00:31:34.182 --> 00:31:35.943
It's a dramatic way of sharing it,
00:31:36.003 --> 00:31:37.424
but a lot was left on the
00:31:37.565 --> 00:31:38.904
cutting room floor to share
00:31:38.965 --> 00:31:40.405
how that tent survived over
00:31:40.425 --> 00:31:42.106
the past nearly 250 years.
00:31:42.567 --> 00:31:43.667
So this exhibit is bringing
00:31:43.708 --> 00:31:46.028
that story to the forefront.
00:31:46.628 --> 00:31:47.730
And the tent, of course,
00:31:47.769 --> 00:31:49.490
is still on display here at the museum.
00:31:50.290 --> 00:31:51.892
And next year- You also have
00:31:51.912 --> 00:31:52.652
a replica tent.
00:31:53.334 --> 00:31:53.855
Exactly.
00:31:53.894 --> 00:31:54.295
Yep.
00:31:54.394 --> 00:31:56.057
We just actually just had
00:31:56.096 --> 00:31:57.857
that replica tent down at
00:31:57.897 --> 00:31:58.818
Mount Vernon for their
00:31:58.858 --> 00:32:00.039
Revolutionary War weekend.
00:32:00.701 --> 00:32:03.163
But this is a hand-sewn
00:32:03.202 --> 00:32:03.943
replica of George
00:32:03.983 --> 00:32:06.526
Washington's Sleeping in Office marquee,
00:32:06.685 --> 00:32:07.547
the original of which we
00:32:07.586 --> 00:32:08.567
have in our collection,
00:32:08.948 --> 00:32:10.028
and his Dining Marquee,
00:32:10.088 --> 00:32:11.351
which is in the Smithsonian
00:32:11.391 --> 00:32:12.412
Institution's collection.
00:32:12.991 --> 00:32:14.113
And so this is a traveling
00:32:14.212 --> 00:32:16.015
outreach program where
00:32:16.816 --> 00:32:19.458
visitors get to engage in
00:32:19.478 --> 00:32:20.598
some experiential learning
00:32:20.900 --> 00:32:22.661
and go inside Washington's
00:32:23.142 --> 00:32:26.164
tentage and kind of imagine
00:32:26.184 --> 00:32:26.744
what it might have been
00:32:26.765 --> 00:32:27.986
like for General Washington
00:32:28.386 --> 00:32:29.227
in some of the complex
00:32:29.267 --> 00:32:30.167
decision making that he's
00:32:30.208 --> 00:32:32.990
doing on his level as commander in chief.
00:32:33.151 --> 00:32:37.836
And so what else is in the offering,
00:32:37.875 --> 00:32:38.175
Matthew?
00:32:39.058 --> 00:32:39.278
Yeah,
00:32:39.298 --> 00:32:42.883
coming up in 2025 after Witness to
00:32:42.942 --> 00:32:44.404
Revolution closes,
00:32:45.425 --> 00:32:47.027
in connection with the
00:32:47.307 --> 00:32:48.669
250th anniversary of the
00:32:48.808 --> 00:32:50.171
beginning of the Revolutionary War,
00:32:50.230 --> 00:32:52.232
of course, that Lexington conquered,
00:32:52.673 --> 00:32:54.595
we're opening an exhibit on April 19th,
00:32:54.595 --> 00:32:56.718
2025 called Banners of Liberty,
00:32:57.198 --> 00:32:58.219
which is bringing together
00:32:58.278 --> 00:32:59.621
about a dozen original
00:33:00.161 --> 00:33:01.741
flags from the Revolutionary War.
00:33:02.762 --> 00:33:03.462
In many cases,
00:33:03.502 --> 00:33:04.223
the first time that these
00:33:04.263 --> 00:33:05.244
flags have been together in
00:33:05.424 --> 00:33:06.305
one room where you get to
00:33:06.384 --> 00:33:08.527
see them all there.
00:33:08.547 --> 00:33:10.788
So that'll be open April
00:33:11.009 --> 00:33:16.412
19th through the summer of 2025.
00:33:16.412 --> 00:33:17.873
And then in the fall of 2025,
00:33:17.873 --> 00:33:21.194
we open up our major
00:33:21.316 --> 00:33:22.977
exhibit on the Declaration
00:33:22.997 --> 00:33:24.637
of Independence called the
00:33:24.698 --> 00:33:25.858
Declaration's Journey.
00:33:25.878 --> 00:33:26.398
And
00:33:26.715 --> 00:33:28.676
And this is the museum's the
00:33:28.717 --> 00:33:29.297
heart and soul of the
00:33:29.336 --> 00:33:33.698
museum's 250th 2026 project.
00:33:35.098 --> 00:33:36.378
And this is an exhibit
00:33:36.419 --> 00:33:38.079
that's exploring the global
00:33:38.119 --> 00:33:39.259
history of the Declaration
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:41.221
of Independence and really
00:33:41.480 --> 00:33:43.201
considering the Declaration
00:33:43.241 --> 00:33:44.221
of Independence as
00:33:44.501 --> 00:33:46.823
Philadelphia's greatest export.
00:33:48.128 --> 00:33:51.692
and how other nations around
00:33:51.731 --> 00:33:54.053
the world have not only
00:33:55.713 --> 00:33:56.835
sought inspiration from the
00:33:56.855 --> 00:33:57.914
Declaration of Independence,
00:33:58.295 --> 00:33:59.675
but also encouraged the
00:33:59.855 --> 00:34:04.358
United States to expand its
00:34:04.439 --> 00:34:07.721
promise of equality and its
00:34:07.840 --> 00:34:08.822
efforts for independence
00:34:11.583 --> 00:34:12.603
Here in the United States
00:34:13.505 --> 00:34:14.726
and then also how other
00:34:14.766 --> 00:34:16.248
nations have declared their
00:34:16.367 --> 00:34:18.170
independence over the past
00:34:18.170 --> 00:34:19.771
250 years as a result of
00:34:20.413 --> 00:34:22.335
this new kind of genre of document,
00:34:22.355 --> 00:34:23.695
a declaration of independence.
00:34:25.338 --> 00:34:27.480
And so we'll be exploring
00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:31.164
ideas and stories that are connected to.
00:34:32.545 --> 00:34:33.724
the Haitian Revolution,
00:34:33.744 --> 00:34:37.385
the women's rights movements,
00:34:38.065 --> 00:34:39.447
and the Seneca Falls
00:34:39.527 --> 00:34:41.286
Convention will be
00:34:41.907 --> 00:34:45.527
discussing Gandhi's efforts
00:34:45.688 --> 00:34:47.028
for independence for India
00:34:48.009 --> 00:34:49.048
and also South American
00:34:49.088 --> 00:34:50.088
independence movements of
00:34:50.108 --> 00:34:51.110
the 19th century.
00:34:51.130 --> 00:34:51.730
Right.
00:34:52.329 --> 00:34:54.010
as well as one of the most
00:34:54.210 --> 00:34:58.050
famous references to the
00:34:58.070 --> 00:34:59.090
Declaration of Independence,
00:34:59.110 --> 00:34:59.990
and that's Martin Luther
00:35:00.010 --> 00:35:01.152
King's I Have a Dream speech.
00:35:01.251 --> 00:35:04.152
So he'll be bringing
00:35:04.172 --> 00:35:05.211
together documents and
00:35:05.271 --> 00:35:07.032
artifacts to tell this kind
00:35:07.072 --> 00:35:08.652
of global story of the
00:35:08.693 --> 00:35:09.853
Declaration of Independence.
00:35:10.873 --> 00:35:11.373
It's amazing.
00:35:11.813 --> 00:35:12.032
Now,
00:35:13.134 --> 00:35:14.233
would you have imagined when you were
00:35:14.253 --> 00:35:15.054
back in school thinking,
00:35:15.094 --> 00:35:16.813
I'd like to be a museum curator one day,
00:35:16.853 --> 00:35:17.753
that you'd be working with
00:35:18.034 --> 00:35:18.974
Washington's Tent,
00:35:19.034 --> 00:35:20.994
the Declaration of Independence, the
00:35:21.576 --> 00:35:22.739
Story of James Wharton.
00:35:22.780 --> 00:35:22.980
I mean,
00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:24.744
you have these tremendous
00:35:24.826 --> 00:35:26.469
touchstones of history that
00:35:26.530 --> 00:35:28.737
you're able to present to the rest of us.
00:35:30.115 --> 00:35:32.157
I maybe dreamed about it,
00:35:32.197 --> 00:35:33.657
but never thought it could be reality.
00:35:33.717 --> 00:35:35.257
But here we are.
00:35:35.398 --> 00:35:36.657
I have to pinch myself every
00:35:36.677 --> 00:35:38.898
day when I get to do this kind of work.
00:35:39.298 --> 00:35:41.300
It's really a dream come true.
00:35:41.699 --> 00:35:43.800
And I get to work with great
00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:44.940
colleagues here at the
00:35:44.960 --> 00:35:49.722
museum and who share that
00:35:49.822 --> 00:35:52.483
similar passion for this
00:35:52.543 --> 00:35:55.965
time period and encouraging people
00:35:56.864 --> 00:35:58.507
more and more Americans and
00:35:58.626 --> 00:36:00.309
international visitors to
00:36:00.349 --> 00:36:02.130
realize that the American
00:36:02.371 --> 00:36:03.692
Revolution is not just
00:36:03.931 --> 00:36:07.715
eight years from 1775 to 1783.
00:36:07.715 --> 00:36:09.157
That's the Revolutionary War.
00:36:09.697 --> 00:36:10.938
The Revolutionary War is one
00:36:11.099 --> 00:36:12.840
aspect of the American Revolution,
00:36:13.121 --> 00:36:14.782
one part of it, a dramatic part of it,
00:36:15.063 --> 00:36:16.103
the beginning of it, really.
00:36:16.603 --> 00:36:19.025
But the American Revolution is ongoing.
00:36:19.445 --> 00:36:21.045
It's really kind of
00:36:21.585 --> 00:36:24.266
encouraging and fostering
00:36:24.425 --> 00:36:28.007
the ideas of liberty and
00:36:28.047 --> 00:36:30.786
equality for more and more
00:36:30.806 --> 00:36:31.547
people every day.
00:36:31.568 --> 00:36:33.967
That's great.
00:36:34.148 --> 00:36:35.869
We've been talking with Matthew Skick,
00:36:35.909 --> 00:36:37.208
the curator of exhibitions
00:36:37.268 --> 00:36:39.349
at the Museum of the American Revolution.
00:36:40.289 --> 00:36:41.150
And your exhibits,
00:36:41.190 --> 00:36:42.489
like the James Wharton exhibit,
00:36:42.550 --> 00:36:43.931
you have an online
00:36:43.990 --> 00:36:45.510
component where we can continue
00:36:46.201 --> 00:36:47.041
watching them if you don't
00:36:47.061 --> 00:36:48.643
have a chance to come to the museum,
00:36:48.663 --> 00:36:50.083
although of course people
00:36:50.103 --> 00:36:50.983
are encouraged to get to
00:36:51.003 --> 00:36:52.806
the museum to see the
00:36:52.965 --> 00:36:54.387
Witness to Revolution and
00:36:54.447 --> 00:36:55.927
the Declaration's Journey
00:36:55.967 --> 00:36:56.967
and these other exhibits
00:36:57.007 --> 00:36:58.509
that you have in the offing
00:36:58.528 --> 00:36:59.929
as well as your permanent exhibit.
00:37:00.851 --> 00:37:01.751
Anything else?
00:37:01.851 --> 00:37:03.193
I feel like we could be here all day,
00:37:03.233 --> 00:37:03.612
Matthew,
00:37:03.672 --> 00:37:04.914
talking about what's going on in
00:37:05.353 --> 00:37:06.695
your museum and in the
00:37:06.735 --> 00:37:07.936
revolution that you cover.
00:37:08.735 --> 00:37:09.536
Anything else we should
00:37:09.577 --> 00:37:10.757
mention before we let you go?
00:37:11.836 --> 00:37:13.637
Well, just as a note about that,
00:37:13.757 --> 00:37:15.639
those 360 degree virtual
00:37:15.699 --> 00:37:17.079
tours of those exhibits,
00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:18.041
they're really great ways
00:37:18.081 --> 00:37:19.041
to encounter it.
00:37:19.081 --> 00:37:20.802
If you encounter the stories
00:37:20.842 --> 00:37:23.304
that we share with just a
00:37:23.364 --> 00:37:24.023
click of your mouse,
00:37:24.063 --> 00:37:25.085
you can explore it as if
00:37:25.105 --> 00:37:26.085
you're in the room.
00:37:26.166 --> 00:37:27.365
But if you're able to make
00:37:27.385 --> 00:37:28.047
it to Philadelphia,
00:37:28.067 --> 00:37:29.007
I do encourage you to come.
00:37:30.467 --> 00:37:31.389
The James Wharton exhibit
00:37:31.429 --> 00:37:32.710
also has music because his
00:37:32.769 --> 00:37:35.490
daughter wrote something
00:37:35.510 --> 00:37:36.952
that becomes an abolitionist hymn,
00:37:37.112 --> 00:37:38.273
an abolitionist anthem.
00:37:38.981 --> 00:37:39.461
Exactly.
00:37:39.481 --> 00:37:39.802
Yeah,
00:37:39.822 --> 00:37:41.903
that is what's called The Grave of
00:37:41.943 --> 00:37:42.384
the Slave.
00:37:42.423 --> 00:37:45.965
It's a poem written by Sarah Fortin,
00:37:46.106 --> 00:37:47.226
one of James Fortin's daughters.
00:37:47.286 --> 00:37:49.909
It was extremely talented poet.
00:37:50.969 --> 00:37:52.710
She was a member with her
00:37:52.750 --> 00:37:54.851
mother and sisters of the
00:37:54.911 --> 00:37:56.452
Philadelphia Female
00:37:56.552 --> 00:37:57.972
Anti-Slavery Society
00:37:59.353 --> 00:38:01.135
alongside Lucretia Mott, for example.
00:38:01.896 --> 00:38:01.996
And
00:38:03.956 --> 00:38:05.278
One of the Fortin family's
00:38:05.418 --> 00:38:08.503
friends was the very famous
00:38:08.704 --> 00:38:11.847
in his day and talented band leader,
00:38:12.668 --> 00:38:13.690
African-American band leader,
00:38:15.592 --> 00:38:16.594
Francis Johnson,
00:38:17.096 --> 00:38:18.657
who actually set Sarah
00:38:18.697 --> 00:38:20.480
Fortin's poem to music.
00:38:21.101 --> 00:38:22.021
And it became sort of an
00:38:22.121 --> 00:38:24.262
abolitionist anthem in a way.
00:38:24.802 --> 00:38:26.583
It was talking about how an
00:38:26.643 --> 00:38:27.945
enslaved person,
00:38:28.405 --> 00:38:30.365
it's actually quite a solemn tune,
00:38:30.405 --> 00:38:31.306
but it's talking about how
00:38:31.326 --> 00:38:32.947
an enslaved person can only
00:38:33.027 --> 00:38:35.788
find freedom in death when they die,
00:38:36.849 --> 00:38:38.369
unless they're freed in another way.
00:38:38.969 --> 00:38:40.971
But so many enslaved people,
00:38:41.431 --> 00:38:43.271
millions of enslaved people
00:38:43.331 --> 00:38:44.652
by the mid-19th century are
00:38:45.233 --> 00:38:45.753
are, are,
00:38:45.954 --> 00:38:48.815
are really not able to live their
00:38:48.896 --> 00:38:50.777
lives in the way that they,
00:38:50.876 --> 00:38:51.898
they want to be.
00:38:51.938 --> 00:38:52.739
And the only way they can
00:38:52.778 --> 00:38:54.360
find freedom is in, is in death.
00:38:54.420 --> 00:38:56.822
It's a very solemn poem,
00:38:56.882 --> 00:38:57.782
but it's getting to the,
00:38:57.983 --> 00:39:00.204
pointing to the fact that the, the, the,
00:39:00.244 --> 00:39:00.344
the,
00:39:00.563 --> 00:39:03.867
the horrors of slavery that James
00:39:03.927 --> 00:39:05.228
Fortin was never enslaved.
00:39:05.268 --> 00:39:06.708
His children were never enslaved.
00:39:07.228 --> 00:39:08.750
They never took that for granted.
00:39:08.809 --> 00:39:10.711
They instead are channeling their wealth,
00:39:10.771 --> 00:39:11.311
their talents,
00:39:11.331 --> 00:39:12.193
their efforts to try and
00:39:12.293 --> 00:39:13.634
end slavery in the United States.
00:39:14.556 --> 00:39:15.557
It's a great story.
00:39:15.577 --> 00:39:16.838
So thank you very much, Matthew,
00:39:16.858 --> 00:39:17.559
for joining us.
00:39:18.059 --> 00:39:20.300
And I encourage folks to
00:39:20.780 --> 00:39:22.161
check out your website or
00:39:22.342 --> 00:39:23.661
and visit the museum if you can.
00:39:23.681 --> 00:39:25.143
Matthew Skick is the curator
00:39:25.163 --> 00:39:26.164
of exhibitions at the
00:39:26.184 --> 00:39:27.204
Museum of the American
00:39:27.244 --> 00:39:28.784
Revolution in Philadelphia.
00:39:29.985 --> 00:39:31.266
And so thank you for joining us.
00:39:31.646 --> 00:39:32.206
Thank you, Bob.
00:39:32.226 --> 00:39:33.088
Appreciate it.
00:39:34.184 --> 00:39:36.304
Also thank Jonathan Lane, our producer,
00:39:36.405 --> 00:39:37.525
the man behind the curtain,
00:39:37.626 --> 00:39:39.186
as well as our listeners
00:39:39.206 --> 00:39:41.668
around the country, around the world.
00:39:41.748 --> 00:39:43.050
And every week I thank folks
00:39:43.070 --> 00:39:44.331
who are tuning in regularly.
00:39:44.391 --> 00:39:45.831
And if you are in one of these places,
00:39:46.291 --> 00:39:47.672
send Jonathan Lane an email,
00:39:47.733 --> 00:39:49.713
jlane at revolution250.org,
00:39:49.733 --> 00:39:51.094
and I'll send you some of
00:39:51.175 --> 00:39:52.516
our Rev 250 swag.
00:39:52.536 --> 00:39:53.597
We have playing cards,
00:39:53.637 --> 00:39:55.137
we have refrigerator magnets,
00:39:55.197 --> 00:39:56.059
we have scarves.
00:39:56.639 --> 00:39:57.719
I never know what else
00:39:57.780 --> 00:39:58.639
Jonathan is going to come
00:39:58.699 --> 00:40:00.362
up with to have for the
00:40:00.422 --> 00:40:02.202
revolutionary symbols, um,
00:40:03.518 --> 00:40:06.101
circulating among folks.
00:40:06.121 --> 00:40:07.882
So Jonathan Wayne, thank you.
00:40:07.981 --> 00:40:08.541
And this week,
00:40:08.641 --> 00:40:11.204
friends in Philadelphia and in Denver,
00:40:11.403 --> 00:40:13.784
Long Beach, and Sebastopol, California,
00:40:14.306 --> 00:40:15.626
Colchester and Vernon in
00:40:15.646 --> 00:40:16.606
the state of Connecticut,
00:40:17.407 --> 00:40:19.768
Escanaba and Detroit in Michigan,
00:40:20.528 --> 00:40:21.710
Short Hills, New Jersey,
00:40:21.989 --> 00:40:25.472
Rio de Janeiro in Brazil, and Wynanskill,
00:40:25.532 --> 00:40:28.233
New York, and here in Massachusetts,
00:40:28.293 --> 00:40:30.315
the town of Arlington, formerly Monotony.
00:40:30.355 --> 00:40:31.096
So thank you all for
00:40:31.135 --> 00:40:32.817
listening in those places and places
00:40:33.297 --> 00:40:34.201
between and beyond,
00:40:34.240 --> 00:40:35.244
and now we will be piped
00:40:35.606 --> 00:40:37.012
out on the road to Boston.