Dr. Meg Jones talks to us about queer and trans issues in education, and being an ally to all youth in our classrooms and beyond. Meg is known for her work in queer and trans issues in education, including educational policy, school-based literacies, and teacher education. In 2021-2023, through a Fulbright Finland Foundation and then an American Scandinavian Foundation Fellowship, Meg was a visiting researcher at the University of Helsinki in Finland where she worked with a team to focus on critical issues in global education. Dr. Meg Jones is an Assistant Professor of Education at Champlain College in Burlington, Vermont.
Suggested citation:
Persohn, L. (Host). (2024, June 11). A conversation with Meg Jones (Season 4, No. 12) [Audio podcast episode]. In Classroom Caffeine Podcast series. https://www.classroomcaffeine.com/guests. DOI: 10.5240/B609-044F-CF1A-3C94-4006-A
Connect with Classroom Caffeine at www.classroomcaffeine.com or on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.
Dr. Meg Jones talks to us about queer and trans issues in education, and being an ally to all youth in our classrooms and beyond. Meg is known for her work in queer and trans issues in education, including educational policy, school-based literacies, and teacher education. In 2021-2023, through a Fulbright Finland Foundation and then an American Scandinavian Foundation Fellowship, Meg was a visiting researcher at the University of Helsinki in Finland where she worked with a team to focus on critical issues in global education. Dr. Meg Jones is an Assistant Professor of Education at Champlain College in Burlington, Vermont.
Suggested citation:
Persohn, L. (Host). (2024, June 11). A conversation with Meg Jones (Season 4, No. 12) [Audio podcast episode]. In Classroom Caffeine Podcast series. https://www.classroomcaffeine.com/guests. DOI: 10.5240/B609-044F-CF1A-3C94-4006-A
Connect with Classroom Caffeine at www.classroomcaffeine.com or on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter.
education research has a problem. The work of brilliant education researchers often doesn't reach the practice of brilliant teachers. Classroom caffeine is here to help. In each episode, I talk with a top education researcher or expert educator about what they have learned from their research and experiences. In this episode, dr Meg Jones talks to us about queer and trans issues in education and being an ally to all youth in our classrooms and beyond. Meg is known for her work in queer and trans issues in education, including educational policy, school-based literacies and teacher education. In 2021 to 2023, through a Fulbright Finland Foundation and then an American Scandinavian Foundation Fellowship, meg was a visiting researcher at the University of Helsinki in Finland, where she worked with a team to focus on critical issues in global education.
Lindsay:Dr Meg Jones is an assistant professor of education at Champlain College in Burlington, vermont. For more information about our guest, stay tuned to the end of this episode. So pour a cup of your favorite drink and join me, your host, lindsay Persaud, for Classroom Caffeine research to energize your teaching practice. Meg, thank you for joining me. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to be here. So, from your own experiences in education, will you share with us one or two moments that inform your thinking now.
Meg:You know, I feel like we often get asked to recount like some moving moment in our work and education and about. You know, either zero or a hundred come to mind in that moment. Zero or a hundred come to mind in that moment. But what keeps me going day to day is probably something that happened during my PhD research. When I was doing my dissertation, I was a visiting researcher over at the university of Helsinki and I was invited to give a one time I think it was a 50 minute long lecture on queer and trans topics in education broadly to a group of master's students in their education program. And it's always difficult when you go into a context or a setting and you aren't really given much information about the knowledge of the individuals there. Have they already had baseline conversations around these topics? Do they want to dive into queer theory and gender complexity, or do we need to start with the basics of language? So I just did my best and I remember getting to the end of the lecture, if you will, and a couple of students stayed after and they came up to me and I thought they're going to have questions or maybe complaints.
Meg:Given the topic, I really had no idea what was coming and every single one of them said thank you just for being here and simply talking about this topic in relation to education, because for some of them it was the first time they had ever heard it talked about so openly, so forwardly, matter of factly, and coming from somebody who identifies within those communities themselves and shares that. That was, you know, really I cried when I was like I'm scared up, but then I also I continued having conversations with some of those students because they ended up being some of the participants in my research. And there were even more students who, in conversations and interviews for the research, shared. You know that lecture was the first time I felt seen, Nevermind the fact that we were talking about what this might look like in what we know as K-12 spaces. Just hearing the words, just having it talked about came up repeatedly in conversations after that date. I had a student who shared that, a participant shared that they came out to themselves after that lecture because they had never been given language to name how they felt for their entire lives. They didn't realize it was a possibility.
Meg:And so you know, here I am feeling all this pressure to be an expert on this topic and you know, reading Butler and reading Foucault and trying to make sure that I'm this well-versed academic in queer and trans studies and queer theory and what mattered most to those individuals was simply the presence of the topic and that, I think, has been one of the most moving moments for me in education amongst so many, from when I was a classroom teacher through my graduate studies, working with amazing individuals the whole way. That moment is what has kept me going, especially given the recent, you know, educational policy, national policy here in the US at least, around queer and trans individuals and rights and visibility. Knowing that simply being present was enough for them in those moments. I think has been a really cool experience.
Lindsay:What a wonderful story and it certainly reminds me that I think so much of what education true education is really all about is helping people feel seen, helping them to understand themselves and the world around them and how to navigate all of those complexities. And, yeah, what an impactful experience to have students come to you to say that they needed the language, they needed the encouragement, they needed the support to identify who they've always been but never really had the words to put to it. So that's amazing. So, meg, what do you want listeners to know about your work?
Meg:It's, I think, with most educational research, with academic work, with educatio bein i a teacher, it's hard. It's hard with time, it's hard with energy, it's hard with balancing who am I as a professional and who am I outside of that professional identity. You know my family, my hobbies, my friends and at the same time, it is valuable. I think that's what I want them to know about. My work is that it is a passion. It is difficult, it's emotionally difficult.
Meg:So many times I have been asked to explain concepts, I have been questioned, I have been challenged, and I think this maybe resonates with people who work in fields or maybe research or teach about topics that are very personally relevant for them that when you have to repeatedly show up and defend your work, you're also defending who you are, because that work is connected to your identity. And I've been in many situations where I've had people question language that I teach about and it's the very language that I use to identify myself, and in those moments it's difficult to keep the professional and the personal separate and I would argue that I don't keep them separate and we shouldn't. As educators, as researchers. We are human beings and, especially given the critical and qualitative work that I do, every bit of me is involved in that work. I'll go ahead and kind of you know if anybody's listening and they fully believe in separation of self and researcher. You know the concept of bracketing right. Like the first time I hear that in any qualitative course, I'm like nope, that is. That is not who I am. So my work is deeply personal and it's it's valuable, it's worth the energy, it's worth the time and I think that my work serves to just kind of constantly be an annoying little tap on the edges of harmful educational policy and practice.
Meg:I am not going to change everything about the experiences of queer and trans youth in our schools with one research project, but I hope that I can just tap and annoy with every paper I put out, with every lecture I give, with everything I post any just my simple presence. I hope my work is a constant pebble in the shoe of people who support and make these policies. And with enough of us being pebbles in the shoes, then maybe we can make some change. Maybe we can help protect queer and trans young people in our classroom spaces and in our colleges and universities. I think that is the purpose of my work and that's what I would like people to know. I also maybe this isn't about my work, but rather about me I hope two things.
Meg:One I hope if people access my work or see my career trajectory and have thoughts and have opinions, disagreements I hope they'd engage, because the whole point of doing what I do is to get people to engage with the topics that I talk about, which is mostly around queer and trans experiences in K-12 spaces and in college university spaces. But I hope that they feel welcome enough to reach out and engage and disagree or agree. Maybe see themselves, maybe don't see themselves, but I also hope that if anybody's listening who is a classroom teacher or maybe an undergraduate student, a pre-service teacher or a master's level student and things like this really they're passionate about it, that they have a voice and their voice is important, no matter what space they're in, that they can make a difference. They can be that annoying tap, they can be that pebble too. I simply occupy one particular space, one particular lane, if you will, and we need all of us doing this work.
Meg:So I teach pre-service teachers, mostly undergraduates right now, and a lot of times they'll share with me that they simply feel helpless in the face of so much going on and so much policy. Many of them work in school settings where there are parents and families and large well-funded organizations coming in to push back against the inclusion and visibility that they try to create in their classroom spaces. And they'll come and say, like what can I do? And I kind of connect this back with the moment that I shared at the beginning of the conversation. I tell them, like, show up, show up, and even if you are told that you can't say a certain thing or you can't talk about a certain topic, you can be there and there is a way there. You know I'm not going to try to get all into energies and stuff, but I do feel like we can show up into classrooms with a certain energy of acceptance, inclusion in seeing young people for who they are and even when policies are sometimes literally tying our hands behind our backs, we can show up in the best ways that possible but also and this again is to everybody listening take care of ourselves.
Meg:Circling back to what I want people to know about the work, it is hard and I think if anybody's listening and they are aligned with this work, if they're aligned with fighting for queer and trans rights, for young people, for adults, for everybody.
Meg:Know that it's exhausting and know that that feeling of exhaustion is valid and real, no matter who you are or how you identify. Allies feel it as well. It is intimidating and exhausting and that's what those who are creating these antagonistic policies want us to feel and they want us to give up because of that. But I wrote a very short piece a while back. It was like a section with another piece about radical rest and that we need to acknowledge the exhaustion and the constant fatigue and we need to take rest, but rest doesn't mean giving up. Those who are antagonistic want us to give up. They want me to stop my research, they want teachers to stop trying. They just want policymakers to stop trying, you know, and we just we can't give up but we should rest. So, yeah, I think that a roundabout way that talks about what I want people to know.
Lindsay:No, and I really appreciate that, because you've already answered a question I wanted to ask you, meg, which was what do we do, how do we support particularly new teachers, or certainly experienced teachers who want to be supportive but don't exactly know how, and especially in this political age where much of the language you know, teachers, are barred from saying and even you know there are instances wherein you know offices that would support this kind of work are being defunded and things like that. And so that was one of my questions for you is how do we support teachers to support queer and trans youth in their classrooms? And I think this idea of just showing up is so important. I think that most teachers believe that every child has value. Every person as an individual has valuable contributions to make to the world and work to do within themselves, but also certainly outside contributions to make to the outside world. And so I think this idea of just showing up and expressing that support to every single child world, and so I think this idea of just showing up and expressing that support to every single child, this is just what I tell my own pre-service teachers your job is to support every child who walks into your classroom, every one of them, whether you like them, whether you agree with them, whether you like their family members, it doesn't matter. That's the job.
Lindsay:And so this idea of showing up, I think, is really helpful, because I think there are some allies these days who are feeling a bit discouraged and are feeling like the work is really hard.
Lindsay:I know there are times whenever I'm having just conversations, even with people in my community. So often what I find is that if there is someone who is maybe behind what I see as a harmful policy, there's a misunderstanding or maybe even a lack of understanding that I think that even if we can, like you said, sort of put some cracks in their thinking, to say you know what, it doesn't really matter how someone identifies, they're still humans and we are still going to be kind and caring and supportive in every way we can. So yeah, but it is hard, and sometimes I think that whenever you're met with such resistance, it's difficult to know what to say in order to create those cracks in someone's really solidified kind of thinking. And I don't know. I'm wondering if you have any other tips for us or any other ways, any phrasing that has been helpful in developing a more nuanced stance.
Meg:Yeah, I think again rest, acknowledging that it's exhausting. And showing up when and where you can, I always add on to the piece showing up when you have safety, and some people have more safety than others, so for some they may want to show up as a visibly queer, visibly trans what have you teacher in a classroom, but it's not safe to do so. So that's when we lean on our allies and say, well, it's safer for you to show up as an ally not safe but safer. And so just really kind of thinking where are the spaces and what identities do I occupy where I am safe to show up and how can I use that in the best way to be an ally or to show up for children, practice that allyship. I think that is another kind of caveat to that showing up. But there's two things, two other things I could share. The first is I've had a couple of conversations recently with colleagues slash best friends as they become right so we can get into those more nitty gritty conversations where our true selves come out. And as we are getting, quote unquote, older, we are realizing that our allyship and our advocacy for various causes and groups is shifting to more of a softer, kindness approach and I was sort of lamenting to this colleague friend recently about man. I miss the energy to be angry, I miss the energy to go out and yell and scream and be out every weekend, every March, everything. And I still do show up to those spaces, but I find that I am in a season of life where I can occupy the resistance and the advocacy in a different way and we need all types of allyship and advocacy and work. We need those who are yelling and screaming and stomping their feet and are angry and we need those who are baking cookies for their neighbors with the flags supporting people we may not support Right. And I see myself shifting amongst that spectrum of activism and I think it's important for all of us to say however we are showing up in activism, we have our own way of doing it and that is again not to discount the fact that, like I as a white person, have white privilege and so I need to show up a little harder in some spaces, but there are spaces that I can show up a little softer and still be advocating for that community, for for whatever the cause may be. So that's one just kind of acknowledging where we are in our energy and that spectrum and the second. And so, for those of you who might still be listening, this is my favorite. I've buried the good part. I always advocate for being subversive when you have safety.
Meg:I just had this conversation the other day with somebody who was asking a similar question of what can educators do, and I was like, well, we get told a lot what we can't do, but there's so much space left over in that what is unsaid. And so maybe there's books that we can't have in the classroom because of antagonistic policies. But what if there is a book that has a very cis normative, binary representation of gender and we just drop a question somewhere of like I wonder what else let's use a very white feminine associated name Susie would do if she wasn't playing with dolls? What else might she like to do with her life? So there's some ways that we can be a bit subversive against the policies that are constantly telling us what we can't do.
Meg:Another one is you know the language we use in classrooms. This is kind of a gender inclusion 101 for educators. Instead of saying boys and girls say everybody line up, or all of my scholars line up, or I don't really like to use friends in classrooms, but using some collective term that is not disallowed, as far as I know, anywhere yet They'll hear this and then they'll start changing that. But there are ways that we can just create space, create possibility, without necessarily going against many of these really misinterpreted and misaligned policies in educational spaces.
Lindsay:I love some subversion, particularly subtle subversion. I've actually one of my mentors and colleagues has said that librarians tend to be very subversive, and I could certainly identify with that. I was formerly a librarian and I'm educated as one, so I could agree with that. That's really helpful and I love this idea of identifying what you can do. We hear so much about what you can't do, what you can't say, how you can't be, but finding that space, I think, also really helps me to think even more deeply about your first point, that you know you occupy the resistance in different ways and find your own ways of showing up. I think that those two to me go hand in hand, that you're also identifying those ways that make sense for me as an individual, you know, but also are a way to show up in those sort of subtly or maybe not so subtly subversive ways. I think that's very, very helpful.
Lindsay:When I find myself in conversations about whether it's trans youth, queer youth, it really is often just a very misunderstood kind of topic. I can remember having a conversation within the last few months of someone who I know very well We've talked about a lot of tough topics over the years and she said well, I don't think that you know kids in kindergarten should be taught about trans or queer people. I said, well, what do you do if you have a trans child in the room? Then what? What do you do if your student has same-sex parents? What then?
Lindsay:I mean, does that change things at all? Because I think that these are situations that many folks in the general public don't imagine exist. But they do. We know they do. We've worked with young people who have different family structures, who have family structures that aren't, you know, mom and dad. So I just I think that sometimes it's just like you said, it's a matter of sort of putting some cracks in that thinking and complexifying Like this isn't a black and white kind of conversation. There's so many gray areas and so so many across the spectrum of not only gender but sexuality. I think that reinforces stereotypical binaries, especially around gender normativity, that I think we've got to do better than that.
Meg:Agreed and it also creates makes me think about the conversation you said you were having about. You know, a kindergartner shouldn't be learning about trans or transnist or queerness. So many of these policies and the public discourse creates misconceptions about what's actually happening in early childhood and elementary classrooms. I mean, nobody's walking in and asking any child what their gender identity is. But when a child starts moving beyond, you know these normative concepts of gender. But when a child starts moving beyond these normative concepts of gender, leaving space is not harmful. Constraining and limiting possibility is harmful and reproduces a lot of problems in our society.
Meg:So we're not going into a kindergarten and saying guess what? Gender is irrelevant and all made up, even though somewhere deep down in queer theory we kind of think it is. We don't bring that into kindergarten classrooms. We're just saying like, yeah, okay, there's these some quote unquote categories and oh, you don't feel that category aligns with you. Okay, but maybe you come back to it, that's fine, that's it. That's really all that's happening. Or, as you're saying, with families, we're just opening space for all family structures and that goes beyond gender and sexuality. But think about how many children live with caregivers who are not their biological parents? How many children live with people who are not their family, and so the language that we use in classrooms around families really we need to look at it beyond gender and sexuality and be more expansive to be representative of those young people in our classrooms.
Lindsay:Yeah, I think you're so right about that and I think when we do talk about classrooms as inclusive spaces, we just sort of have to move beyond the way we were thinking about those things, you know, 75 or 100 years ago, you know, to understand that there is room for everyone. There is room for everyone in public education and really in education everywhere, and there should be. And so offering that support, offering that allyship, showing up for every individual who crosses the threshold into our classrooms or everyone we might even come in contact with outside of schools, I think it's just, it's so important for a kinder world, a safer world and, ultimately, a much more productive kind of society. Whenever people aren't scared to be who they feel they are, they aren't scared to identify, you know, the way that they've always felt they have. So it's just.
Lindsay:It's such an important conversation and I know over the, particularly the last couple of years, some of the policies that have impacted education have just been so hateful. Really, I haven't quite been able to put my finger on whether that is the hate there is intentional, or if this is just a couple of folks who are scared scared of, you know, I don't know if it's losing their slice of the pie, or you know what we think the ultimate outcome is going to be if we don't make space for everyone. But I don't know, I'm not. I'm not interested in in playing that game. I'm much more interested in supporting everyone. But I don't know, I'm not interested in playing that game. I'm much more interested in supporting everyone.
Meg:I agree completely when individuals show fear, and I do think it's discomfort and fear of, as you said, losing the slice of the pie. Even when I experienced that feeling, that should be the first indicator that you are taking something away from somebody else in order to get that slice of the pie. And it's uncomfortable to shift in privilege and in familiarity. So you know, when I encounter individuals who struggle with concepts of gender diversity or sexuality beyond heteronormativity, I try to keep that in mind that there's a great discomfort in the unfamiliar and it can feel threatening. It doesn't excuse behavior, harmful behavior, but it allows me to maintain a sense of calm in that space and in that conversation. And personally, honestly, like being in queer community, being in gender diverse community, is a huge part of my personal life. It's a beautiful space, it is a wild time, it's lovely, and when I step into classrooms or when I am doing my work, my gender, my sexuality, is the least interesting thing about me.
Meg:Can we just move on from that part of the conversation? I would rather argue about old policies like no child left behind, and continue to argue about these harmful policies about gender and sexuality Like we'd still have an educational crisis that we need to address. That has nothing to do with these issues. So, yeah, like we have so much work that we could be doing and we could be so much more productive if we could recognize the serious issues that are happening with education broadly. And that's not blaming teachers. I'm talking about funding and structure and support and how we view educators and education. Those are the conversations we should be having.
Lindsay:Right, which also, I think, encompasses the inclusivity we're really talking about here. And something else you said, Meg. It reminds me of something that I heard from a past Classroom Caffeine guest. Judith Dunkerley-Bean, who was talking about her child who is trans, said the exact same thing. That is the least interesting thing about me. Get to know me as a person, you know, because, of course, throughout the presentation that Cam made in Judith's class, you know there were so many questions about being trans, and that is the least, least interesting thing about me. Let's talk about some other things. So, you know, that reminds me of something that came to mind as you were talking and something that I think I mentioned in my conversation with Judith.
Lindsay:Anytime I have kind of a heated conversation with someone about trans individuals, I'll often say, well, do you know anyone who's trans? And pretty much 100%. The answer is no, much 100%. The answer is no. So they're working from something theoretical rather than a more humanistic kind of perspective, because I certainly find that people are people. You know, no matter how you may identify, no matter what background you may come from, everybody has complex things about them, everyone has really interesting things about them, everyone struggles with things, everyone excels at certain things and, you know, when we look at humans at the end of the day, as just humans, we're all just trying to make it in this world.
Meg:I sometimes tell people like I come home at the end of the day and I sit with my cat and I cross stitch. I'm the most boring queer person. We're not out here trying to be threatening in any way. Most of us just like doing arts and crafts in front of our TV. So yeah, for the individuals who don't know any, here's an introduction to what our lives sometimes are like. I don't want to discount the very real historical oppression that has happened in education, but what's happening right now is we're bringing in another conversation that doesn't need. Just let people be people and let's address some of the larger systemic issues that have happened, especially in the US. Let's put our time and energy into that. Let's not create more problems. Yes, we need visibility, we need representation, and that hasn't historically happened for queer and trans individuals. But if we can just realize that those identities are non-threatening, then we can move forward and be more productive in other areas of oppression and education.
Lindsay:I think that's such an important starting point for us. Right, because, you're right, there are new policies that are just exacerbating issues that already exist rather than identifying a path forward where everyone can do their best work, be their best selves and be connected in a supportive and enriching kind of community. Yeah, we don't need more policies that work against those kinds of goals because really it is counterproductive for everyone Everyone. So, yeah, I think that's just such an important message. So, speaking of messages, given the challenges of today's educational climate, what message do you want teachers to hear?
Meg:You are seen and even when it feels like you are not heard, people are listening. I think being a teacher in a classroom is one of the hardest jobs that you can have right now and it is very real that that position is underpaid, under-respected, and yet you are held to such high expectations in your own education, your own knowledge, the time that you give the time away from your families, your home, your communities, and just know that it is seen and that there are people out here working to change things. While it may feel like it is actively crumbling down, you are not forgotten in those spaces and we absolutely need teachers. Teachers are really the path forward.
Meg:I went into education because when I was a classroom teacher every year I knew that there were. I was in a state where we had way too many kids in the classroom at times, but we'll say 25. There were about 25 humans that I got to know and that I, at one point in their lives, was a presence and had the opportunity to hopefully support and influence in a positive way and help them develop their sense of self, and then they will go on and replicate that, and so I think you know for teachers, just remember when everything else is awful, when it feels like it's too much, that one piece that you as a human are connecting with and have the opportunity to support and develop. Let's say, 25 on average young people every year, and for some it's more, for some it's fewer. You know, in college courses we see many, and even when I want to just pull my hair out and I am, you know, I'm like oh, we were talking earlier.
Meg:You know, you don't have to like everybody, but you do have to support them. So when I have those, I'm like I actually don't really like you, but I'm going to support you. The effect of educators is immeasurable and this is one of the few professions that we can say that. And so, again, just know that your work is valuable, know that we are here, we see the difficult times and if anybody, if there are queer or trans identified educators listening or researchers and you feel like you're alone, please reach out to me. I will be happy to be in community with you. And even if you just need somebody to jump on, zoom with and let it all out, there'll be no judgment.
Lindsay:That is a beautiful invitation and a really important message, I think, meg. So you're right, being a teacher is not only one of the most impactful, valuable positions one can have in the world, it is also very difficult, and it does seem as though there are policies that aim to make that even more challenging. But I really appreciate you offering that space of community to listeners, because I've heard from some of my pre-service teachers who've actually left preparing for becoming a teacher because they don't feel that there's space for them because of their gender identity, their sexual identity, and so I really appreciate you kind of putting that out there, because it is important that we all feel seen and we all feel heard, and I think that's when we do our very best work. So I thank you so much for your time today and I thank you for your contributions to the field of education. Thank you for having me.
Lindsay:Dr Meg Jones studies queer and trans issues in education, including educational policy, school-based literacies and teacher education. Her work has been published in Frontiers, in STEM Education, journal of Women and Gender, in Higher Education Journal of Women and Minorities. In was a visiting researcher at the University of Helsinki in Finland, where she worked with a team to learn from and contribute to international research situated in the Nordic countries to focus on critical issues in global education broadly and Finnish education locally. Dr Meg Jones is a graduate of the University of Rhode Island and is currently an assistant professor of education at Champlain College in Burlington, vermont, where she teaches courses on public schooling and literacy. You can reach Meg at mjones at champlainedu that's M-J-O-N-E-S at C-H-A-M-P-L- p l a I n dot edu.
Lindsay:For the good of all students, classroom Caffeine aims to energize education, research and practice. If this show gives you things to think about, help us spread the word. Talk to your colleagues and educator friends about what you hear. You can support the show by subscribing, liking and reviewing this podcast through your podcast provider. Visit classroomcaffeinecom where you can subscribe to receive our short monthly newsletter, the Espresso Shot. On our website, you can also learn more about each guest, find transcripts for our episodes, explore topics using our drop-down menu of tags, request an episode, topic or potential guest, support our research through our listener survey or learn more about the research we're doing on our publications page. Connect with us on social media through Instagram, facebook and Twitter. We would love to hear from you. Special thanks to the Classroom Caffeine team Leah Berger, abaya Valuru, stephanie Branson and Shaba Oshfath. As always, I raise my mug to you, teachers. Thanks for joining me.