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Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
179. Keeping Successful Whilst Your Job Is Transforming
Welcome to the first episode in our 4-part focus on 'Future Readiness, Today'. As the waves of change due to automation, digitisation, hybrid working and AI continue to wash through the world of work, we take a practical and proactive look at what we can do today to set up well for the future.
Back in 2018 McKinsey's Global Trends report predicted 14% of the world's workforce may need to switch occupational categories. Maybe you are a customer service expert who now needs to generate opportunities as part of your role. Or a finance person who is now expected to collaborate and be more of a business partner. Many of the classic 'vertical' professions are now required to work in much more holistic and creative ways as organisations reshape and transform. Its still you, but with small adaptations week by week to enable your evolution over time.
We share practical tips for getting a GRIP on your mindset so you can maintain calm and empowered in all the noise. We focus on the power of networking to keep your radar on about what might be ahead that you could prepare for. And for those looking to influence their employer to invest in qualifications we share stats that demonstrate this is cheaper long term than having to hire in new people.
We cannot control the waves of change but we can grab a surfboard and make best use of our skills and attributes.
Curious for more? Check out our relevant episodes:
Ep 165. The Stoic Approach for Success During Change
Ep 156. Stretching Your Comfort Zone - Overcoming Nerves with Karl Green
Ep 122. Vision Requires Visibility - getting out and about opens up opportunities
Ep 166. Relationships Last Longer than Emails
Secrets from a coach thrive and maximize your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with debbie green of wishfish and laura thompson stavely of phenomenal training deb's law, you're all right I'm really all right. How are you?
Speaker 2:I'm all right actually, yes, I'm just keeping one eye on the future, Laura, because I think it's quite important, but only one eye, not two.
Speaker 1:Yes, I mean, it's tricky to not get cross-eyed at the moment, Debs, isn't it? With all of the different things we need to focus on, it made me think, actually, debs, that lovely phrase the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time to plant a tree is today and I guess, as the first in our four-part focus looking at future readiness today, how can we take some practical little things that we can do right now that actually at some point in the future we might look back and go? I'm so glad I took that decision and started that thing because actually it's really then kind of helped and I guess the attitude we wanted to bring to this is not panicking about the future, but being poised and feeling ready and prepared so that we look forward to the future and rather than just kind of dreading all the further changes that might be around the corner, but having that sense of positivity and empowerment. Debs, what are you picking up in the coaching space around people's sense of being ready for the future?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's such a good question, depending on who you're talking to.
Speaker 2:Some people go so looking forward to it, some people go. I'm just going with the flow. But I think the common theme that's coming through is how prepared am I to step into a new role or how prepared am I with what is going on in my organization as it continues to transform? And I think what I'm hearing especially last week I was talking to somebody who was saying normally they'd have a cycle of restructuring in their organization every five to seven years, but they're having one that's happening in the next year. The last one they had was three years ago. They're having another one this year into next year and they're saying they're becoming a little bit more frequent is what they're finding.
Speaker 2:So being able to navigate their way through a changing landscape of jobs can be, I think, both exciting but also quite challenging for people. So whether they've got people transitioning to a new role or they're just having to learn how to adapt to those organizational shifts or just wanting to continue to be successful in the role that they're doing, they're finding it difficult to know what's the best route to take. Do I go with the flow? Do I make it happen? Do I just see what happens, or do I be more reticent about any changes I'm going to make, or how do I show up? So there's lots of uncertainty creeping around and there's not one size fits all is what I'm sort of beginning to understand. Talking to different people, it's more about how they can cope with what's going on in that transformational world that they're now living in, and I think that's something I think we could probably talk about quite a lot really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is why we wanted to focus on this one around keeping successful while your job is transforming around keeping successful while your job is transforming. So it could be you're part of a transformational plan in your organization and you want to be able to honor all your business as usual that you need to do now, as well as be agile and think about what's ahead. It may be that the expectations around your role have really kind of changed and you now got to step out or step up in slightly different ways In terms of what the global stats are showing. So, just as a bit of prep for this session, debs, so there was a McKinsey report that really started to look at what might this mean in terms of workforce global trends, and this is a while ago now, so this is 2018. So this is pre-pandemic, but at that point, the prediction was 375 million workers around the world, which represents 14% of the entire world's workforce, may need to switch occupational categories by the time we get to the end of this decade in 2030, due to digitization, automation and AI. That has probably sped up a bit, really, because we've had hybrid working, which was kicked off by the sudden change in where we work, and we've also had some runaway successes with technologies like chat, gpt, all the other ones that have come up, because it just does make writing information so much easier. It is now an everyday bit of tech that not many people now may have kind of sort of missed on. It's becoming. It was a runaway success. So there's been these kind of proof of concepts that have worked and have become scalable. So what we're seeing is is there's a real shift in demand on service level agreements, quickness and responsiveness. There's a lot of kind of noise that's kind of around there at the moment and I guess what we wanted to do was to, as always with our pod is how do we keep empowered, how do we keep feeling thriving while the world is getting noisier and noisier around us? How do we then carry on feeling like we're empowered, but also with kind of one eye on the future, as you said, and one eye on today, and just to get a bit of sort of confidence around this.
Speaker 1:So the stats suggest that to replace someone new in a role. So let's say an organisation is thinking do we spend a bit of education? I think it would then help me be more flexible in my organization. How am I going to justify that spend, like, how might I ask my manager to sign off that expense, which can seem like it's going to be an instant? No, especially if cashflow is an issue in your organization. But the cost of not doing that could be far worse.
Speaker 1:So here are some stats that just might help prepare if anyone is thinking actually I can see that I can do more in this role, it would keep me more resilient for the future, but I need to get some kind of certification or something. So they say that an average replacement cost is 20% of the annual salary for mid-range positions and anything up to 213% for exec positions. Wow, because the cost in severance pay, recruitment costs and also the productivity through that person's learning curve is really big. So unless that training costs more than 20% of your annual salary, actually within a year you'd be saving your current organization money by getting them to invest in something that's not only going to help keep you motivated now, saving your current organization money by getting them to invest in something that's not only going to help keep you motivated now in your role but also more versatile for that organization at some point in the future.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's incredible, isn't it? But I can see where that's coming from and I know one of the things that it's always been super important to us is that whatever role you're going into is being able to continuously learn, right. So, because none of us know everything, and if we're stepping into that a different role that's in the organization that's going through some changes, you know that ability to be able to learn and bring something with it and keep up with the trends and have an awareness of what's going on in your industry, learning from others that are in a similar industry to you is really super important. So that skills development is something that I think is it's an ongoing process that for us to be future fit is.
Speaker 2:I think it is the ability to keep on learning and just expanding your thoughts rather than just rely on what you've always known, because I don't think that's necessarily going to hold you in good stead, as, especially with future generations coming through who are changing jobs quite quickly anyway, so they're getting on that flow of transformation, but those are already in a job who may be comfortable.
Speaker 2:They have their mortgage, they know what they're getting, they're not maybe ready to move to a different company, but they're seeing it change around them. It's like how do they ensure that they stay informed and keep their skills up to date? So why would you not invest in someone if that's what it's going to save you, rather than that person saying, well, my organization doesn't want to invest in me, so you know what I'm off, and they go somewhere else and that person gets that brilliant skill set and you've missed a trick. If you're a manager or leader having regular one-to-ones with people and maybe not asking them that question about future development or their hopes and dreams, and just sticking to the day job conversation, then I think you're missing a trick. I think it's all to do with the communication that you're having so that you understand what that person needs as their own development, debs, you reminded me actually I was co-delivering a session with one of our organisations.
Speaker 1:We work with one of their directors who was encouraging people that in those one-to-one conversations to ask some of these future focus questions. So what could be some things that are on the six to 12 month radar that are worth me finding? I know in a moment you're going to talk about the power of networking to enable us to keep successful whilst your job is transforming. Now's not the time to get lost down a rabbit hole and get more and more entrenched in your own kind of blinkered perception because you might be working so hard on a project that, unbeknownst to you, most of the people around you know isn't going to be be continuing. You know, had you not got that network, you might not have found out that information. So it was. I think it's looking for those opportunities, isn't it? To just get a bit of a feel for actually what's ahead so I can start to make some practical decisions.
Speaker 1:Now I know on our next episodes we're going to be looking at learning and really have a look at some practical things around that, but I just wanted to highlight a couple of things that have made me smile this week, debs, and then I know you're going to give us some practical tips around networking. So, yes, artificial intelligence is huge. I mean it's kind of talked about lots. For anyone that does do some reading around the world of work, it's been quite sweeping the impact it's then had. However, there are also some unintended consequences that are also worthwhile having to think now. So, yes, it is the shiny new big thing, but AI works brilliantly as long as everyone is playing the game and the thing about us humans is we like to game the system?
Speaker 1:So I was speaking to someone last week who's part of their role, as they do factory visits over in another part of the world, and all of the reports that had been sent to them digitally made it sound like this factory was just amazing in terms of what it was able to do, in terms of its values, its ethics, environmental conditions. When they actually rocked up and did a real life factory visit the moment they arrived, they could see things were not what it seemed okay.
Speaker 1:And because of that human ability to not be able to kid a kidder, they were able to challenge, they were able to ask to go around, not just the factory site tour that, conveniently, had all just been freshly painted, but all the doors that they weren't going to be opening up. And actually, within about half an hour, they recognised that this real life factory that we've been given this storyline about all is not what it seems. Had that all just been done via drone footage, all done, automated, or decisions being made, then potentially, you know who knows what, what impact that thing could have had. Equally, you've got supermarkets that are now considering do we remove some of those self-checkout tills?
Speaker 1:and replace them back with humans. Oh, yes, please. Because the payroll costs saved of not having humans anymore has been outweighed by the price of shoplifting and theft, and it's really difficult to thieve in front of a human till operator, whereas if you say, oh yeah, these diamond earrings are just two bananas in a bag Must have scanned it wrong. Yeah, must have scanned it wrong, sorry. So what we're seeing is a couple of years on, since some of these sort of sexy automation things.
Speaker 1:That has happened is AI and all of these processes work really well as long as everyone is a good actor in that supply chain, but actually not everyone is out there wanting to play by the rules and you got to have a kidder who can see another kidder. You can't kid a kidder. So I think it's going to be interesting from a keeping successful while your job is transforming is believing in the technologies and the new ways of working and the processes, but also just keeping one eye out for what do we also need to watch to ensure that we can keep everything working so we're not wholly reliant on it. So, whilst your job is transforming, I think it's also keeping yourself right at the centre of that. What is the value I add what does it mean in terms of having just one eye ahead in terms of what's around the corner, and sometimes there are some unintended consequences that happen. You will then be very useful if you're able to problem solve and deal with all those challenges.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm with you on that, because you said we might revert back to having people actually at the till serving you.
Speaker 2:Then that organization has to be adaptable and flexible, to go back and how they lead, how they onboard people, how they communicate, all of that stuff that they do.
Speaker 2:They're going to have to up the skill sets again, I think, in order to collaborate well, build the networks well, and I know I'm going to have to up the skill sets again, I think, in order to collaborate well, build the networks well, and I know I'm going to share some of that things around networking in the first 90 days and all of that lovely stuff, because I think collaboration and networking have to go hand in hand and to pivot really quickly, I think, because of having to change, as you've just said. I think it's going to be key for the next five to 10 years, and if you're a manager that can't be asked or thinks they don't need to or somebody else would do it for them, I think you're being a bit of a dinosaur and you need to wake up and smell the roses, I think, and go hmm, what might I need to do to adapt and flex to what's going on in the world around me?
Speaker 1:So Debs just remind us. So the topic of this is around keeping successful while your job is transforming. It's part of our future readiness today. Since time began, us humans have been networking, meeting new people, collaborating and joining the dots up. What's the link that you see between the benefit of networking today and what that means for our ability to keep successful in the future?
Speaker 2:Yeah, this has always been a passion project of mine to say what's your network? You know, even if you're new into a new role, what does your 90 days look like? I mean, people are really good on boarding. Well, on the whole, they're very good on onboarding new starters into the organization. So they might have had a planned induction program, onboarding program, but then when somebody changes jobs or the job gets changed and they're finding themselves in the middle of a transformational restructure, they forget that that actually needs to happen again, that onboarding needs to happen again because there will be different people that that person might need to meet or different processes that they might need to explore.
Speaker 2:And I suppose also knowing that if you're a new leader going into a different part of the business, you might have been around that business for a little while, but now you're going into a different part, knowing that actually the performance of the current team may drop. Now it always fascinates me that they think, oh, we've got a shiny new leader, we've got a new person taking over this head of role, whatever it might be. Then the expectation of those around is that that team will continue to perform to the level that they were maybe before if they were a high performing team. It doesn't. Sometimes it drops back because people are trying to build relationships and get to know how that person works. So if you're that person stepping into that role, my encouragement has always been to say who's in that network. Who is it that you need to build relationships with? Who is it that you need to be close to? Who are, if you like, the deputy leaders of the leader? The ones that I always call know everything, they are, see everything and they're the movers and the shakers within the team. So who are those people? Yes, you might have a shiny induction onboarding into the like, as you say, go around that factory if it was a drone showing you all the nice bits, but what you really need to do to be able to hit the ground running and be a fast mover in a transformational world is to get to know people. What's the network? How do you collaborate? Well, and I think for me, networking, building those relationships, is really important Finding who are the innovative colleagues, seeking out those that you can question, you can ask how does it work around here, really considering how you create boundaries with those people? How do you create good connections with them? How do you make sure that you're engaging with those collaborators, if you like, so that you can co-create a joint narrative of success. So it's not all about you.
Speaker 2:One of the things I do see sometimes is when people are new into a role, or the company has transformed and there's suddenly a new department that's come out of somewhere. There is a bit around people trying to show I'm really good at that and let me give you my life story about why I'm in this role and why I'm successful in it. I think it's important. However, if you're new, I think you should have modesty. I think modesty is key. Show people what you can do. Don't tell them what you can do. And if you can adopt that mindset and co-create something together, that relationship, that network, is just super strong and powerful, because you haven't made it all about you. Yes, you're new. Yes, you're in a new department. Yes, the department may even be new and everybody's vying for position as to find out who's who and what can we do. But I think it's knowing where you would add value in that team or in that newly formed department, and then making sure you work on your gaps and you get the people around you, or people that you know in your wider network to be able to, if you like, plug the skills gap and the knowledge. For now, while you continually learn and upskill, so you start to broaden your knowledge, deepen it, so you're in the best place possible. So I think you've got to have a network first. Mindset as I call it.
Speaker 2:Build your network, super important in today's transforming world because you never know who you're going to bump into further out. Or a connection you made in your previous department or team is suddenly in a new department or a team. You have the relationship, but how do you co-create a success narrative with that person? Because you're now working on something together. So for me, what again is your 90-day plan? If you're moving into a role, be it as an intern, be it as just a secondment or just a mat cover, really think about your 90-day plan as if it's fresh, fresh start. But build the network around you. Who have you got surrounding you that you can leverage? Because you come across loads of people. So the more you come across people that you know you can work really well with, keep them safe, keep them close is what I always say.
Speaker 2:Your network will always get you the answer that you need, but you've got to build those relationships in order to get it and be modest with it. You have to be modest, not this here I am. I'm going to fix the world. Everybody will look at you and go, yeah, right, here we go again. So you need to be able to think about how you can get the best out of others as well as yourself. In that, don't make any assumptions that you know everything that's going on in this new way of working, because you won't. And those that are a bit complacent and think, oh yeah, we've been through this transformational change. This is about the sixth time. Here we go again. You're not with the same people, so you've got to get to know the people and, as my dad always says, it's not what you know, it's who you know. That's going to get you the results, so keep those networks going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Love it, Love it, Debs.
Speaker 1:And the triple benefit that then gives you is, yes, as your dad was saying, you know, it's not what you know, it's who you know, and it's who you know, who knows what. That actually could give you a little heads up of ah, that's around the corner, is it? And then you can then make some decisions where you're empowered to think, okay, well, within that in mind now I've just found that out the second benefit is I can't think of a single organization that we work with who wouldn't find conduit people useful. So your conduits are those little hub people that just seem to know everyone with it, and you don't have to be in an organization for 10 years to know everyone. In fact, some of the anxieties can come where someone has been in the same place for 10 years and they don't know anyone because there's been so much change. So, right from day one, as you said, if you have a network first mindset then already is looking at the job decision, the task I'm doing right now. But it's who I know and that network.
Speaker 2:Just on that.
Speaker 2:I think that's where, if you're a manager or a leader or supervisor of a team and you have one of those people join your team, I think you have to have a responsibility to create that network for them.
Speaker 2:So, as part of their onboarding into your team, create a plan of action for them that says yes, first week, yes, we'd love you to do some work, obviously, but they don't know anybody. So if you can set them up for success, get them meeting and greeting the people that are the movers and the shakers, they're going to feel more confident and they're going to want to give something back to you because you've given something back to them first. So I hate calling it the emotional bank account, but I'm going to top you up because I know at some point I'm going to get a withdrawal from that, but it's done in the right way. That sounds really malicious, doesn't it? But it's done in the right way. That sounds really malicious, doesn't it? But it's done in the way that you know I'm going to help you be the best you can be, because ultimately it'll come back on me that says I look after my team.
Speaker 1:Well, I make sure that they've got everything they need to be able to be successful, mm-hmm. And the third benefit is from that relationship with that networking point of view. Surely that is going to be one of the most future-proofing skills that we can get confident, whether you're an introvert that would prefer to do it one-on-one, whether you're an extrovert that is quite happy to rock up to a team meeting and say, hi, I'm the new person from over there, you don't have to do it in a certain way. But that relationship building even more so with hybrid working groups where you could just dial in from all sorts of different parts of the world, and so therefore, it's a global candidate competition now rather than just a national, and so that ability to create relationships based on trust, as you said, I think, is going to be future-proofing and it's very right as well, and we're going to kind of focus a bit on that when we look at learning on our next episodes.
Speaker 2:But I think that's a nice catch about networking because anyone can start that right now absolutely, and I think also it links into that level of emotional intelligence and we always talk about the social awareness bit, so you know when we're thinking about. Have you got your radar on type thing. So, as you said, have you got your ear to the ground and that conversation that you might have as a chance check in? If you're on a virtual call, you might be waiting for people to join, but somebody might say something and then you go oh, that's interesting, I need to go and be curious because that's just sparked a thought within me that may impact over here. So that ability to have raise your social awareness, keep your radar going, enables you to connect the dots really and, as you said, be the little conduit, the connector, the spark, whatever it might be, that might enable great conversations to happen outside of that virtual meeting that you may have had.
Speaker 1:Yes, you're the duct tape that's holding it all together behind the scenes. I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you might be the only one. You might be the only one, you might be the only one, and Debs.
Speaker 1:I have full faith in the people that we work with's ability to do what they need to do but because we have the privileged position of being behind the scenes with so many different people, so many different industries, it is quite amazing that anything actually ever gets done, to be honest, debs, because most of the projects you ever hear of happening are behind time, over budget, behind schedule. People have left. There's been unexpected changes. So the amount of work that goes on behind the scenes to keep a process going, that human element behind it, and I think again that networking aspect, means that you can problem solve quicker and just hopefully create less hassle, because there's a lot of duct tape that is being used to just hold everything together, which is why keeping successful while your job is transforming. I know on our final bit we're going to be thinking about mindset and your own confidence, because, from an identity and viewing yourself as a successful person, that's probably more useful to have that as an inside out mindset rather than using external validation of whether you're succeeding or not, because you might be involved in something that isn't going very well at the moment, because that's the rigors of transformation. So in our final kind of wrap up bit, we'll have a look at mindset and what that means to keep the perception of being successful whilst your job is transforming. So, debs, I thought it might be quite cool just to revisit one of our favourites, richard Becker's GRIP model, so just sort of joining it all together.
Speaker 1:The GRIP tool is a really nice concept just to kind of get a bit of clarity in your own head If there's lots of transformation happening around you and you're kind of all bets are off in terms of what you might be doing in that role in 12 months time.
Speaker 1:But you know there's a lot of things that you're kind of being pushed and pulled around, and grip just helps you get a bit of clarity. So what are my goals, what is my role in this and who do I need to to interact with and what are my processes? So, goals, roles, interactions, processes and if you're unable to answer any of those with much clarity, then that gives you a bit of a heads up as to the further information that you might need. You might not be able to get that because no one might know that at the moment, but at least it kind of keeps you in that driving seat. So, no matter what is happening externally, internally you're feeling successful and empowered and a lot more confident, you know, in terms of your role in all of that, any other thoughts you'd have Debs about from a mindset point of view through these times?
Speaker 2:I think there's sort of two. One is knowing where you do add value and connecting back in with your skills and your talents and your qualities. There's a reason you're doing that job. So remind yourself of why you're doing that job, which is your great skills that you bring. Otherwise they would have given it to anyone. So I think there's a little bit of that self-belief, you know, acknowledgement of that. I think also there's keeping yourself well as well through any transformation. That self-care has to be front and center as well. So looking after your physical and mental health and well-being is going to be super important too. So making sure that you are having breaks, you're doing all that thing you know you're going to do. You're switching your laptop off at a reasonable time. You're not trying to prove yourself because you've already got the job, so okay it's. How do you manage your health and wellbeing so that you can function and be successful? Because you've taken care of you too Lovely.
Speaker 1:So at the start, I mentioned how the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. Yeah, the second best time to plant a tree is today, yeah. So what would your call to action be, debs that just then, from all of the stuff that we could do or should have, would have, could have done, what would your call to action be? If there was one thing that you'd encourage for this week ahead, what would it be?
Speaker 2:I think this weekend I'd go with being curious, so taking a moment to think about who's in your immediate network and then thinking about, well, who's in their network that I might need to get to know as well, so it becomes your own little. What's that called Spidergram? Is it a spidergram where they just rose out and out and out?
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I was also thinking it's like your own LinkedIn, but like flesh and bones Flesh and bones.
Speaker 2:LinkedIn? Yeah, definitely. So that would be be curious as to, okay, who's in my network, but actually who's in their network. That, who do I know who's in their network? And if I don't know them, how do I get to know them and how do I build those relationships? That would be my call to action Wonderful.
Speaker 1:My share the secret would be, and so it doesn't feel too awkward. Send them the link to this podcast to then say I listened to this.
Speaker 1:And it really got me thinking, actually, how there's probably some things that we could learn from each other that might really help whilst we've got a lot of transformation going on.
Speaker 1:And then it kind of makes sense then when you then say, should we grab a 20 minutes or so and for anyone who's listening, who is not currently in work, who is looking for work, then also, hopefully that gives you a sense of comfort that, don't you worry, not everyone inside an organisation has got it totally sorted. There's lots of things that are uncertain for lots of people and actually you entering into that organization, as you said, with the onboarding, could be just the magic that starts to enable some good things to happen. So, whether you're inside an organization or outside an organization wanting to get in, it's all about the networking, isn't it, in terms of keeping successful now whilst your job is transforming. So, debs, I'm really looking forward to what we're going to be covering next week. So we're going to do a bit more of a deeper dive on the role of learning in setting up well for the future.
Speaker 2:I'm looking forward to that, because it's always learning. You can learn every day if you want to.
Speaker 1:if you want to, Every day of school day is one of our podcast mottos it keeps you young, it keeps your options open and it just reminds you that there's always something we can do. We can't go back and start again from the beginning, but we can have a fresh beginning at any point.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's really cool. I love that, laura. Well, on that note, I look forward to having that conversation with you next week.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, dev, it's going to be the whole new me brand new me A refreshed version.
Speaker 2:A refreshed version. Yeah, I'll have a fab week. Love it you too. See you later, love you, bye.
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