Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
181. Looking for Everyday Opportunities to Learn and Develop
In this second episode in our 4-part focus on 'Future Readiness, Today' we look at easy, everyday ways to seek moments to learn and develop ourselves. As the waves of change due to automation, digitisation and AI continue to wash through the world of work, now is not the time to copy and paste our way through the working day. Although efficiency helps today be easier, it could reduce our creativity, confidence and empowerment in the future.
We take a practical and proactive look at what we can do today to set up well for the future. Taking Ownership for our CPD (continuing professional development) no matter where you are in/out an organisation. Practising Metacognition (thinking about your thinking) to get into the Habit of learning. Learning habits include setting a PDP and reviewing it monthly/quarterly (regardless of a line manager!), having visual reminders to keep learning new knowledge at the forefront of your mind. Mentoring, buddy groups and knowledge circles are great ways to keep learning fresh 'fibrous' info, alongside the pre-processed convenience -knowledge via google or an AI guide.
Curious for more? Check out our relevant episodes:
Ep. 97 Summer School: G is for Growth Mindset
Ep. 85 Inspiring Confidence in the Next Gen Workforce#
Ep. 67 The Gift of Hard-Won Wisdom
Ep. 34 To Adapt is to Flourish - with Tom Willis talking about moving across industries
In this second episode in our 4-part focus on 'Future Readiness, Today' we look at easy, everyday ways to seek moments to learn and develop ourselves. As the waves of change due to automation, digitisation and AI continue to wash through the world of work, now is not the time to copy and paste our way through the working day. Although efficiency helps today be easier, it could reduce our creativity, confidence and empowerment in the future.
We take a practical and proactive look at what we can do today to set up well for the future. Taking Ownership for our CPD (continuing professional development) no matter where you are in/out an organisation. Practising Metacognition (thinking about your thinking) to get into the Habit of learning. Learning habits include setting a PDP and reviewing it monthly/quarterly (regardless of a line manager!), having visual reminders to keep learning new knowledge at the forefront of your mind. Mentoring, buddy groups and knowledge circles are great ways to keep learning fresh 'fibrous' info, alongside the pre-processed convenience -knowledge via google or an AI guide.
Curious for more? Check out our relevant episodes:
Ep. 97 Summer School: G is for Growth Mindset
Ep. 85 Inspiring Confidence in the Next Gen Workforce#
Ep. 67 The Gift of Hard-Won Wisdom
Ep. 34 To Adapt is to Flourish - with Tom Willis talking about moving across industries
Secrets from a coach thrive and maximize your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson-Staveley of Phenomenal Training. Debs, laura, you all right. Yeah, I'm buzzing after our episode that we recorded last week.
Speaker 2:I know I was as well. I consciously went about with that curious mind to go oh, I literally did what I asked people to do as their call to action.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, me too Because I think, as we were sort of explored in that one, the role of learning and setting up well for the future, not only from a cold commercial point of view you're more likely to be employed in the future if you've got a learning mindset but actually from an overall health, well-being, confidence and empowerment all of that soft gooey stuff as well. In fact, it reminded me of a conversation I had with an IT director, or CIO or whatever they're called IT director who'd been pretty senior in the world of IT transformation projects for a number of years stellar career, anyway. He, at the time when we were speaking, had two teenage daughters, and I said to him oh, I'm really interested in future proofing. What are the skills that you're encouraging your two teenagers to focus on? And he said I think it boils down to openness to change and a positive attitude towards learning. And I thought how interesting. And that was about five, six years ago, so that was pre-pandemic, but I reckon that still stands strong now.
Speaker 1:The World Economic Forum is still predicting that in 2025, some of the most premium skills are going to be around problem solving, critical thinking, all of those things that require us to learn, maybe new ways stepping out of the groove. As we talked about the last session, so this one was going to be all about looking for everyday opportunities to learn and develop. So what are you picking up Debs in terms of how everyday moments to be able to access some of this stuff, what are you seeing? Maybe, from an attitude point of view, is really key to getting the ball rolling with that one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for me, what I'm noticing is, again, it's very mixed depending on people's attitude, their beliefs around learning. So I'm doing some mentoring with some young people at the moment and we've had a mix of people come through and a couple of them are, oh my God, so up for it. They are on it, they've got a plan, they are following up, they're doing if you like in in inverted commas their homework or home actions that they were setting themselves up to do. They're bringing loads of information into the mentoring conversations as well and then so they're going like gun ho at it, really wanting. So that desire to want to learn is definitely there.
Speaker 2:On the flip side, you've got a couple that are not really engaged in that whole approach of wanting to learn more.
Speaker 2:They're just going through the motions of going to school every day because there's no investment in them. They feel like and this is their words, not mine that no one understands them or they're not being listened to or people are not giving them time, because, for one in particular, it takes them a little bit longer to pick up on what's being asked of them. So if you haven't got the time to give someone else to help them learn and the space to learn and adapt your style to get the best out of it for them, then, potentially, that person's going to always have that feeling of, well, what's the point of learning? And it's really interesting to watch the two contrasting groups, if you like, of people. That how do we bring that mindset together, of that having that desire that you want it, having that commitment, knowing that you can, and the belief that I am able to do this, I think is something that we just have to nurture, especially in our younger people, who may not be listened to or not be given time to explore and learn at their pace.
Speaker 1:Oh, debs, I mean I'm sure anyone listening here who is a manager of a team you know. I mean whether that is mentoring in the sort of formal way that you're mentoring, or whether it's different attitudes to learning and opening your mind to different things within a team. You know there will always be, I guess, differences in how up for it people are in that moment. But are some of the key things then feeling safe, feeling listened to, and then, rather than it being something like I've got to do this in order to keep my job, actually I want to do this to be able to thrive in my job. And so much of it, I guess, is about how that learning opportunity is positioned.
Speaker 1:I mean, for example, debs, how many times have we intervened as suppliers on maybe some joining instructions that are about to go out and it says mandatory course you must attend? I mean how not to create an environment of where people feel empowered and you know there are. That's where language then really really comes into it, because there might be a requirement for your role, but you can dress it up in a way so that people feel like they have free will, because your body might be there, but if your brain is just going this ain't for me, I'm just going to go through the motions and smile through it. So even the invite process, the setup of how that learning is being positioned so people feel involved, as you said, and listen to, can also then impact whether we look for everyday opportunities to learn.
Speaker 1:How much do you want to?
Speaker 2:How much do you want to? Yeah, it is that. How much do you want to? How much you want to? Yeah, it is that, how much do you want to? And that's when you made me smile as you were saying about those joining instructions. Um, because it is even in a coaching session. You know how you might set up that coaching session.
Speaker 2:Or if you are with somebody and you're going through their pdp or you're going through their annual performance review, whatever it is, how you set up that conversation is gonna make or break the conversation and the outcomes at the end of it. So if you are that person, if you're like holding the conversation, then how you show up to that is going to make a massive difference on the um impact of the way the dialogue then throws out. Because if you're turning up miserable and sad, like we talked about last time, or you're talking up ready to go and up for it with lots of movement going on and being a bit mad about it, that will set the tone for the conversation and it will either spark your brain into going this is fun, like you talked about, fun is super important or this is going to be hard, and if both parties are sitting there feeling like this is just some tick box exercise, then it's the opposite of learning, in fact, you're learning ways of how to dodge and avoid those meetings.
Speaker 1:So I guess there's always learning that's taking place, but it might not be the productive one. You're missing an opportunity in terms of how that's sort of set up. So I think we're going to focus on this one around not only attitude, as we've also just talked about, but the skills and some practical examples. So just to bring a bit of fun to it, how I like to describe a PDP, a personal development plan, is imagine it is like your career Fitbit.
Speaker 1:So, it's only you that knows the rate at which you're running, the amount at which you're sleeping. It's all of that personal biometric information, the stuff that you are focusing on in your mind. It could be that you are in a current role and you're just itching to stretch either up or out of the role that you're in. It could be you're not in a role at the moment or in a role that fulfills you and you want to change and shake things up a little bit. So there's no kind of preordained path that you have to have done this at school and then that means you're able to do that. A couple of you know a century ago, if you were born in a certain mining village, that was your lot and you had to be an extraordinary character to rebel against that path that had been set. If you were born into a mining family, that's pretty much would have been your career set out. Now, in this time, you could be anyone anywhere and you know, rather than letting that be overwhelming or feeling like it's just for those people over there, actually learning is going to be your vehicle. Where am I at now, where do I want to be, and what does that mean about looking for everyday opportunities to learn and develop, whether it's accessing free services like this. I mean the whole thing that galvanized us setting this up Devs wasn't it was.
Speaker 1:Sometimes people aren't fortunate enough to work in organizations that will invest money in their professional development. So what we aim to do on these episodes is we take some of the bits that people go oh, I quite like that actually and then we convert that into these little episodes. But learning is the enabler and between us all of us as a team we've seen transformational shifts happen of where people have opened their eyes up to do you know what maybe I could do something in that field and then they make it happen. And it's not a magic wand, it is. Learning is that vehicle that takes you from A to B, and no matter what you're doing now, there's always opportunities to be able to extract some learning. That might not have a certificate at the end of it, but you can sit there in a meeting and demonstrate. This is the effort I've put into my personal development and this is what I want to do to take myself forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely, and I think it comes back to having the will, the willingness to think no, I want to better myself. So it goes all the way back to what was in it for me. You know, if I was to stop and set my goal, what do I want my life to be about? And asking yourself some of those deep questions you know what's my purpose in life? Or you know what do I? What brings me joy? If I wanted to feel proud, what do I want to be doing? You know, these are again all things that will either propel you forward and sometimes you get things coming back at you super quick and other times they may take you a little bit longer.
Speaker 2:But it's that practicing, as we mentioned last time, it's the perseverance, it's, you know, keeping it going. Is it still aligned with who you are as an individual? It doesn't mean that you're not going to get it in the first six months, and I think sometimes that's what people underestimate is actually the skill you need to continue to learn. And knowing that you're going to come and be faced with obstacles and you might be sent off on a different path or you might have to put your learning on hold because of circumstances. It doesn't mean it will never happen, it just means it just won't happen right now.
Speaker 2:So that ability to then keep the perseverance going is checking back in. Is this what I really want in my life right now? It will either be a yes or a no, because then you can go okay, I'm going to close that off if it's a no and I'm going to look for something else. Or if it's a yes, no, I still want this in my life. It's now finding maybe a different way of how I might approach it. So looking at it from a different angle, talking to somebody else about it, whatever that might be Beautiful.
Speaker 1:So in a word, maybe to wrap this up around, attitude, I guess would the word ownership be an appropriate word to sum it up. So, in terms of looking for everyday opportunities to learn and develop, the first step is take ownership. There's only one you, which means there's no preordained path that said you were going to be doing this type of role or this type of lifestyle. There might be things that are getting in your way right now, but nothing lasts forever. That's not only for the good things, but also for the bad things. And the thing about learning is no one else needs to know that you're doing it. It's your own little private relationship with yourself about where am I now and where do I want to go to next. So in a moment we'll have a look at some practical skills around how to take this ownership and galvanize it in some kind of action. Nice, so, debs, I've got a right saucy little word for you.
Speaker 2:Go on then. I like a saucy little word. What is it?
Speaker 1:So this word hold on to your flip chart is metacognition. I like that word. So metacognition, thinking about your thinking oh I like that. And I know you are an absolute superstar around the types of reflective questions. So if I just set the scene and then I'll let you kind of run right, right, right wild, like a wild pony through the field.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God, bring it on, but metacognition.
Speaker 1:So metacognition is the act of pausing and reflecting. What have I learned so far? Where am I at now? How's that then going to set me up for what I'm going to learn in advance? So whenever I run train the trainer courses, I practice it at the very simple formula of every 20 minutes. You need to just pause. So we've looked at X. What have you taken from X? Let's now have a look at Y. How might X link with Y? And just that little 30 second little bridge, rather than it just being a random set of stuff. The benefit of that is not only does it recap stuff if they fell asleep halfway through.
Speaker 2:Which can happen, of course, you know.
Speaker 1:We've had that happen Absolutely. Even on the best days you lose half of them, but anyway. So metacognition means it kind of joins the dots up, and what it does then is it enables your brain to form a bigger picture of, rather than it's been bombarded with, all these different things. So in a moment, I know you'll share with us some peach of a selection of questions. But metacognition is the practical skill of thinking about your thinking, and it doesn't have to be overly formal, it doesn't have to take loads of time. It could just be something that happens, you know, kind of you just need to remind yourself to do it. So, debs, give us some classic things that can help from a skill point of view as we take ownership of looking for everyday opportunities to learn and develop. So we are future ready today. What might metacognition look like in real life?
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I love this. And, as you said, thinking about your thinking. So, first of all, ask yourself the question what am I thinking right now? So, if it has sparked a thought within you, don't just leave it. Explore it, you know. So, what am I thinking about that? How do I feel about that? What is this telling me? What am I learning from this? How do I feel about it? Where is that thing sitting in my body? You know, because we can physically feel some stuff sometimes. Is what I'm thinking true? Is what I'm thinking true? Is what I'm thinking logical or helpful? Even so, we can explore what that is.
Speaker 2:What if I was to think slightly differently about this? How would that show up? So, the ability to question and really question what that thought was. Thinking about your thinking. And then I always say write it down as you're going through asking yourself some of these questions. Just write some of that stuff down. You know what would be different if I did this. How might that show up? How would I feel? What skills might I need to use?
Speaker 2:So, again, the more we're exploring, exploring it, we can then navigate our way through, um, as you said, the little steps. So you know the journey that I'm going on is to enable you to sort of put some stops in. So if you've answered yourself some questions and you've suddenly come up with a plan to get you where you want to get to, then you can break it down even further into those mini stops. So if you think about a tube line as you know sometimes how I describe it you get on the tube and then you know you've got another couple of stops before you get off at the next one. So each one of those stops asking yourself that question what have I learned so far?
Speaker 2:What have I still got to learn? What am I going to not learn? What do I want to let go of? What's important for me now? How will I get where I want to get to? What's my things I need to take with me to my next stop? So, again, these are all what we call curious. And then listening, and listening well, to your responses and listening as to how it makes you feel. Now, that sounds a bit weird, but listening to how it makes you feel. So, listening to your body, is it firing you up and going yeah, or is it like, oh, because then that's not the right thing to be thinking.
Speaker 2:Love it, debs, and she sits there looking so calm and serene With my cat that's joined us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, with your little crazy brain going off right inside. The other thing I'd add into that, debs, that brilliant list of questions, is also who, who could I learn from?
Speaker 2:Oh my God, I missed that one. I love that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and something that I have learned over the years as a facilitator during the war is sometimes the quietest person in the room holds the magic bit of knowledge that completely changes the game of that conversation within the room. So I mean that's one of the reasons why people pay to have a facilitator it's someone to keep an eye out on who hasn't spoken, whereas sometimes when you're immersed in a conversation you just can't see it because you get so engrossed you lose your peripheral vision. But absolutely, I have learned time and time again on average three days a week, in 50 or 48 weeks of the year. For the last 20 odd years I've been running training courses, or 48 weeks of the year for the last 20 odd years I've been running training courses. Sometimes the quietest people in the room hold that nugget of knowledge that is actually really really quite valuable.
Speaker 1:So, from a learning point of view, if you currently are in a role, are there some people with whom you might work with day by day? But you've never actually had that curiosity question and I know in a moment you'll remind us of those knowledge sessions that you saw one of your clients doing, which sounded brilliant. But that could also be a very easy, natural, informal way of learning is also who's around you. That might not show off lots about it, but actually they might Still. Waters run deep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I like that. Probably a way to sum it up Still waters run deep.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like that Probably a way to sum it up Still waters run deep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yes, definitely. I think that is so important. But as the person maybe at the front of the room or leading the team or being part of that or just being part of that team, you have to notice then and get out of your own way to see what else is going on. So how observant are you? We talk about being a conscious observer in a room. So if you are in that moment and then are you consciously observing what's going on in the room? Where are the dynamics? What are you picking up? The ability to listen and really listen, well, I think, is the gift that keeps on giving.
Speaker 2:But you have to get out of your own head sometimes to just turn up as if this is brand new, never seen it before. A bit like we talked about last time, that beginner's mindset. I'm going to look at it through fresh eyes. I might have been in this meeting for the last 10 years or so, but actually I'm going to bring a different perspective to it. I'm going to bring it with a beginner's mind. I'm going to look at it as if I've never seen it before. And that does take practice.
Speaker 2:But when you consciously work in that, you see those quieter still waters run deep, the knowledge, people that are in that room that are just waiting to be invited to put their point in, and you have to have to catch that. Really, I think you know that's your job. If you're a leader or a supervisor, team lead, whatever you might be, or even if you're in that room and you're noticing that somebody isn't talking and you happen to be noticing that, how do you bring them into the room? But it doesn't mean you're not participating in it fully, so you might spot something that maybe somebody's not noticing and therefore you can bring that in.
Speaker 2:So again, it just says what are you seeing? How's your radar? It links into how emotionally intelligent are we really? Is our radar on? Are we picking up the little beep, beep, beeps and are we actually inviting people to have that conversation? And I know that's what we do as our day job law, because that's the bit where the little beep, beep, beeps. And are we actually inviting people to have that conversation? And I know that's what we do as our day job law, because that's the bit where the magic happens. And we always say we might have a set of slides that we might be going through or a set of content.
Speaker 1:It doesn't mean we go through that, because the conversation might go off and it might be richer, isn't it? And you could email those out or bang out some video tutorial. That's static info, so it is the bit around it. Just want to catch, though, because we know that neurodivergence is such a hot topic, not only in our own friendship circle, but also for our clients as well, and if actually, you know, for us, talking in front of a group of people in a training room is literally our comfort zones, what we do day in, day out. But whenever I'm a delegate, I get nervous because you don't know what's going to happen what's going to be required of you?
Speaker 1:So you know, I think it's. You know the control freak aspect doesn't quite like it when I don't have the control of it, so I have empathy with people that might prefer just to sort of sit quiet with it. So I guess then the skill is, how do we then extract that info to learn and to create everyday opportunities to learn from each other? For some, writing on a post-it note, emailing stuff in advance, doing a survey monkey beforehand to get the information out, to then bring the conversation out. So there might be some people who you work with, with whom don't feel comfortable just being put on the spot and talking in front of other people. So are there different ways that you could adjust that? And, rather than guesswork, you could ask in advance. We really want to learn from each other what works for you in terms of how you learn Nice lovely Couple of little email ask and then you could have a really good half hour session where people are genuinely learning.
Speaker 1:They're not in performance, they're not worried about how they're coming across, but we're able to listen to that curiosity mindset I think so.
Speaker 2:I love that because then that takes away any assumptions, um that you may have about the people that you're in the room with, um, because the minute, as we always know, the minute you make an assumption that every everybody in inverted commas is going to be in the same headspace or ability to learn in the same way, is is that's it, I think, as certainly as a facilitator, I think if that's very naive to walk in and not even give us thought to the diversity that may be in the room.
Speaker 2:And, as you know, your duty of care, as I always call it, is to check in and ask those questions. But, as you're right, I've been a delegate on some workshops and, yeah, they don't know who they're going to get. I mean, I might be a complete randomer that turns up and wants things to explain it, but no one's asking how are you going to get the best out of this experience with us? And I know we always learn as we go, right, laura? So we've learned over years about how do we bring people in the room, how do we make sure it's the great learning environment for them, as you said, because we care enough to find out rather than just bang it out. Well, it is what it is.
Speaker 2:Get on with it. We just don't do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we are so grateful to people that have given us feedback For example that's why we now have a transcript for each one of the podcasts. Because there might be a lot of us who quite like absorbing information in the background as you're going about the day to day, and there are other people who have to see it to be able to fully process it. So who are we to not?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're learning every day. Right, exactly, yeah, we're learning every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you know we're so grateful to receive that feedback, because you can only see, you know your own map of the world until you're given some sort of feedback around it. So, debs, our first bit, I guess, was around attitude, in a word, ownership. So taking ownership, looking at everyday opportunities to learn and develop If not you, who? The second bit, then, I guess, has been looking at metacognition Ooh, saucy word and the skills and the kind of the practical aspects around it, and not only some self-reflection but also who's around you and how you can tap into that knowledge. And then the third bit shall we have a little exploration around some top practical examples of things that you could look for for everyday opportunities to learn and develop? You may not be in a scenario where you're about to go on some great big leadership development course, but that doesn't mean that you can't take practical action right now and start to do some learning and development on your terms. So, debs, I've got a couple. I guess you've got a couple. I've got a couple.
Speaker 2:Share yours law all right then, all right, not this competition.
Speaker 1:No, we don't we share, we're sharing we're collaborating we're knowledge sharing, we're knowledge sharing, and I guess that maybe embodies all of this, which has been humble enough to learn and just to look at actually what, some other ways of doing it. So the three that I always thought I would look at is number one having a PDP. So we've got a whole episode all around setting a personal development plan. But a PDP whether you've drawn it, whether it is a voice note to yourself, whether it is some gorgeous table word document that you've made, however you do it, it is some kind of development plan, personal to you. It could link to some professional stuff, so simple ones. We've seen is a SWOT analysis what are your strengths, weaknesses, opportunity, threats with reference to your skillset and if there were one to two things that you might want to focus on now, near and future, you got yourself a bit of a plan. That's step one.
Speaker 1:With a PDP, whether you're doing it off your own back or with a line manager, for example, but treating it like a career Fitbit. So going out for one run once does not. It does not a runner make. So sitting there all fired up after listening to something like this, going right, that's it. I'm going to change my life and you write some PDP. That's not the magic. The magic is then setting that reminder to go. When am I going to review it and what might that mean? And sometimes these things. You might make some life-changing decisions in a week and other things might take six months of just putting the trainers on and going out each day before you start to see the compound effect. So a PDP enables you to catch your compound effects. There's little things that I'm doing now.
Speaker 1:So question to you have you got a PDP? If you have, when's the last time you looked at it? About 85% of any HR people that I ever asked to put their hands up in sessions with lots of HR people in how many of us in the room have got an active PDP? About 15% of people put their hands up really proud and the other 85% sit there looking a little bit sheepish. So even the people within an organization that are most likely to be invested in learning and development find it a challenge. So a PDP not only do you make one, you can listen to our other episode that focuses on it. I'll reference it in the overview. But the magic is going back to it and looking at it. The second thing that can then help with that is to have visual reminders, so things to nudge you, to nudge learning. So Debs glancing around your room right now. How many unread books do you have around you?
Speaker 2:Well, I've got one right here, literally right here. I've probably got about. Well, there's one on my desk and there's two that are sitting on my. I'm looking out here no one can see me, but I'm looking over into the corner here and then I've got a sofa that sits behind me. So there's about four that are on there as well, so probably about six on the go.
Speaker 1:Right, beautiful. So amongst all those calm scatter cushions and all of the calm, you know, self-belief posters, there is also intermixed with that and same in my workplace as well Little nudges to remind you to keep learning is to remind your brain. I'm not here just to consume Netflix and Amazon Prime miniseries. There are also some other things that I can do as well. So the first thing is a PDP. So set it and reflect and go back to it. The second thing is set yourself some visual reminders, advertise to yourself to remind yourself to do some learning. So whether that is some books that are around or little post-it notes or whatever that might be. And then the third one, which probably links nicely onto what you're going to take us through, is mentoring. So we know we're going to talk in more detail in another episode around mentoring, but mentoring is that idea of getting advice and wisdom from someone else who might have been there, done it, worn the t-shirt, with whom you can learn some ways that might then help for you. And mentoring can work in two directions. You could mentor, be mentored by someone to receive wisdom from them. Reverse mentoring is when you actively seek someone to learn from. So reverse mentoring is where. So if typically you might see in an organisation people that have been in the job for a while mentoring new starters. But actually the real sweet spot is if you can get some reverse mentoring as well People that have been in the job for a while learning fresh ways, fresh perspectives from people that are new in and haven't formed those habits yet.
Speaker 1:So mentoring is a bit like Tinder for learning, isn't it? You know you've got to have that spark and it's got to feel like it's mutually beneficial. But it doesn't have to be anything too onerous. It could be a coffee catch up once a month, once a quarter, but even just feeling like you're in a mentoring relationship is a very tangible reminder to yourself that you're valuing yourself. You're putting some time aside just to talk, talk things through, to be able to get some advice, but you need your PDP to then bring a bit of purpose to that mentoring. So it's not just a chat, it's got a bit of purpose to it. So PDPs, visual reminders, mentoring Debs what are your thoughts in terms of top tips for bringing Top tips?
Speaker 2:So I'm going to go with your three as always, because I know you like it in threes going from there. So I'm going to build on that with the habit forming piece. So knowing that, as you said, you can't just rock up and do it one day and never do it again. You have to create a new habit. And actually the thing that I learned a little while back now was that habit forming can take us anywhere between 20 times or days to do it or 240, anywhere in between that. And it doesn't mean I do it for, say, I did it for 20 days and then I stopped. That then goes back to zero. So you have to start again at the zero and start to add from there, so you can't just hold it and then move on and go yeah, I've done it 240 days over the last three years.
Speaker 1:It doesn't work that way oh god, that's like diets, isn't it?
Speaker 2:it is you've got to keep at it. You've got a habit form, and that for me was like diet, isn't it? It is. You've got to keep at it. You've got to habit form. And that for me was like when I learned that it just everything made sense as to why we do stuff and it sticks and why we don't, and we just don't improve or don't get what we want. So habit forming is little bits every single day, which you know, as we said on the last pod, you know, take five, and you know, five minutes every day can make a big difference. It adds up to a lot of time and if you can do it regularly to create a ritual and a routine around it, it then becomes part of who you are and it becomes part of your rituals, your routines. You then do it without thinking, so you'll become, you know, um, unconsciously, competent at it and then, before you know it, you go oh, my god, you know I'm doing it. So that for me would be one of the big things.
Speaker 2:Um, buddy groups as well, I think, can be super powerful, and we've, you know, we've done workshops before where we've purposefully put people from different parts of the organization together as a buddy group, so and then setting them some tasks and works and get together. It's a bit like mentoring, but on a bit of a wider scale, where you might have three or four people in each little buddy group that get together and talk about what they might be learning. And we've done it as a part of a, you know, six, nine month management leadership training program where there are forced in inverted commas moments where they have to meet and talk about the previous workshop and what are they, how have they done with it, what are they learning from it, how are they improving, what are they noticing, where might be some of their gaps. And we found that has been really, really beneficial and that in one organization in particular, the, the the buddy groups have continued to meet every quarter, not every month as we said originally, but they've purposely kept that as their, as their buddy group, their learning set, if you like, because that's what it used to be called. Wasn't it a learning set? Um, but they've kept that going because the benefit they had by still understanding what was going on in other parts of the organization has been really valuable for them. And one group has been going like three years now. So it's not incredible when you see what they're now learning about the organization as well.
Speaker 2:And my third one, which we talked about last time, was these knowledge circles. So how do we consciously pull people together, um, and learn from each other? Um, and I know we do that on our wishfish days, right, where we get together, um and I know that was your ask of our, one that's coming up to make sure that you're learning from you know what linds is doing, or what lex is going on to do, or what carl is doing, or how gailey's working out things, and Mel has been doing all of her stuff. So we're consciously coming together to learn from each other, which I think is just a really good thing to do, because you know you're not living in each other's pockets and therefore people are going off and doing their own thing, and the organization I mentioned before that do it exceptionally well is just because of that. They're quite lean as a team, yet they have big things they're responsible for.
Speaker 2:But the commonality is they're working for one artist and therefore they have to sort of come into the middle, work out what are they doing for that artist.
Speaker 2:They then go away and do whatever it is they're doing.
Speaker 2:They have to come back again and knowledge share what it is they're knowing, finding out, doing so that they're doing the best for that artist.
Speaker 2:So that ability to have a sharing knowledge circle has been invaluable for them and they have really upped their approach. People are beginning to look over at their team and saying, wow, what are they doing over there? Because they're getting really good results. And when you sort talk to them and the person I've been coaching who's leading on that, it is because she has consciously brought people together every week to share knowledge and it's the. The payback has been huge and people feel involved, people know that they're going to get heard, people know they're contributing. So, whereas there was a little bit of nervousness about not talking up, they now know that this is what they're going to be doing, and so the buzz in the room and the energy and the fun that comes out of that in 30 minutes is incredibly powerful. So, yeah, if you haven't set it up or you'd like to set one up, I definitely consider putting time in and creating a knowledge share knowledge circle.
Speaker 1:Oh, love it, Debs. And, from a realistic point of view, run three and then by the fourth one. You know if it's firing or not. Don't view the first three, because the first one, people will go. What's this about? The second one, oh okay, the third, you can start to predict. And the fourth one, people will then speak up, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good, catch Law? Yeah, definitely. But then that becomes a habit. Then right?
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly. Which is why, debs, I thought I'd wrap up this third bit as habits, because I just think everything we've been talking about from a practical aspect is habits. So it's looking for everyday opportunities to learn and development, first of all, taking ownership. Second thing is metacognition, so thinking about your thinking, and then the third thing is setting some of those habits and, in terms of the BB King, that amazing quote that we covered on the last one, the wonderful thing about learning is no one can take it away from you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, I love that, and you can use it all through your life, right?
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And also one of the best ways to learn is to teach. So my share, the secret would be what has this episode and maybe the previous ones you've been listening to, what have you learned about learning and your attitude to learning so far that you could share with either someone in your work network or your personal network that you think might help them as well? Open up opportunities for learning, because the best way to teach, best way to learn, is to teach. So what have you learned by having some chance to reflect on this session that you think might help someone else?
Speaker 2:Oh, I like that. Yeah, I'm gonna hold on to that one and think about that. Oh, my god, I like that. Um. So my call to action would be as you're going on your little journey and you've put in your little tube, stops, as I'd like to call them, um is, at every stop, celebrate the successes as well. So celebrate what you have done, celebrate how far you have come, look back at where you started to where you are now. So do that reflection piece and celebrate the successes.
Speaker 1:Wonderful Right Debs. I'll meet you in Elephant and Castle. I'll start at Queen's.
Speaker 2:Park.
Speaker 1:Yeah, love it oh, we'll have a fantastic week ahead, you too, and then can't wait to catch up on the fourth. Yeah, in our four part focus, looking at future, ready today, where our hope and intent was that we could just take some practical, simple things that we can do right now, that actually, when we look back, maybe in five, six years' time we can think do you know what? I'm really glad I started some of those habits. So looking forward to wrapping up the session when we catch up next week. In the meantime, have a glorious week.
Speaker 2:You too, Laura, and I look forward to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can't wait.
Speaker 2:Love you, bye to it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can't wait. Love you. We hope you've enjoyed this podcast. We'd love to hear from you. Email us at contact at secrets from a coachcom, or follow us on insta or facebook. If you'rea spotify listener, give us a rating, as it's easier for people to find us, and if you want to know more, visit our website, wwwsecretsfromacoachcom and sign up for our newsletter here to cheer you on and help you thrive in the ever-changing world of work. Bye.