Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
190. Human-Centric Selling Approach
In this third episode of our 4-part focus focusing on Maximising Personal Touch we look at how to bring a human edge to sales and customer interactions in an increasingly automated world. We discuss the value of positive mindset, behaviours, and using the skills to build relationships and provide exceptional service. We share top tips for active listening, effective questioning and creating momentum in sales conversations. We also discuss the different personality types and the importance of adapting and flexing to meet the needs of others.
We give practical advice on the BIDs questioning technique and the power of listening and building relationships. As well as gathering information and understanding needs, its an effective way to build relationships based on trust. A good listen for anyone wanting practical tips on encouraging repeat business and customer loyalty - or who wants a reminder on the human skills that underpin selling success.
Curious? Check out our previous relevant episodes:
Ep. 93 Hybrid Presentation Skills
Ep. 108 The Power of Storytelling to Connect
Ep. 116 Relationships Last Longer Than Emails
In this third episode of our 4-part focus focusing on Maximising Personal Touch we look at how to bring a human edge to sales and customer interactions in an increasingly automated world. We discuss the value of positive mindset, behaviours, and using the skills to build relationships and provide exceptional service. We share top tips for active listening, effective questioning and creating momentum in sales conversations. We also discuss the different personality types and the importance of adapting and flexing to meet the needs of others.
We give practical advice on the BIDs questioning technique and the power of listening and building relationships. As well as gathering information and understanding needs, its an effective way to build relationships based on trust. A good listen for anyone wanting practical tips on encouraging repeat business and customer loyalty - or who wants a reminder on the human skills that underpin selling success.
Curious? Check out our previous relevant episodes:
Ep. 93 Hybrid Presentation Skills
Ep. 108 The Power of Storytelling to Connect
Ep. 116 Relationships Last Longer Than Emails
Secrets from a coach Thrive and maximise your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with Debbie Green of Wishfish and Laura Thompson-Staveley of Phenomenal Training. Debs, laura, you all right? Yeah, I'm really good. I'm so fired up by this current mini-series that we're working on, all about maximising human edge. What's your week been like from a human perspective, debs?
Speaker 2:Yeah, lots of human connection and contact actually, and negotiating my way through getting what we need from various doctors and GPs and things like that. So all about the human edge and that ability to, I suppose, have the right mindset as you're walking in to have a conversation with somebody. So, yeah, so I think it's. For me it's all about mindset, behaviours and your capability to be able to position stuff, ask great questions and I know we're going to look at listening and all that stuff on this one. So it all sort of feeds into life really.
Speaker 1:It absolutely does and, as we focused on the last couple of episodes part of this miniseries, one person's job is another person's personal interaction. So you know whether you might work in a doctor's surgery or in a school or in an office or in some kind of broker situation, but how you then interact with others is all of our experience of life. So, whether it is part of your job now or you've got some thoughts about what it means to have a great customer interaction or sales experience, this has been all about how we maximize that human touch before it all gets automated away. Debs, because once no, because once it's gone, it's very difficult to retrohumanize a process or an interaction that has been offloaded to the machines, and the machines are brilliant at doing stuff. I mean, I can't imagine life now without the online vending machine that is your Amazons and your Ebays and all that kind of stuff. But what role the human in an increasingly automated, algorithm focused sales process that we're seeing all over the world? And the amount of transactions that happen online?
Speaker 2:it's in the trillions and it's only going to get more and more as it gets cheaper and easier to have things like shopify on a website to be able to automate it yeah, I think it's incredible, really, but I think it's still back to those basic acts of service. So, how are you being in that moment? Are you looking at it from a giver's mentality or a taker's mentality? And I think that's always interesting to just explore. You know, what does that actually mean? You know, am I, am I, you know, giving my best in that moment? Am I, how am I, serving others in that moment?
Speaker 2:And I, I know I can't think of the Gandhi quote will come back to me was it lose yourself in the service of others? I think his quote is yeah, and it's always that. Am I doing that in every interaction? Am I providing something? Am I giving a learning? Am I giving some guidance, support? And you know, is that what I'm doing? Or am I doing it to take something back? And I think that, for me, is the fundamental difference between the giving. I'm sharing something with you. I'm learning. I'm learning as we go. Let me share my experience with you, rather than I only want to speak to you, because I want something from you and I think it's a real interesting one to get your head around actually Lose yourself in the service of others. What does that actually mean, am I showing up to give you something or showing up to take something from you? And I think that's the thing I always think, that's what adverts work no-transcript.
Speaker 1:Elephant.
Speaker 2:Elephant the human elephant the elephant in the room.
Speaker 1:And yeah, then you can give us a bit more of an insight into that idea of the givers. I think that's brilliant. And then we'll have a look at some very practical skills and, as kind of hardcore previous sales trainers, debs, I know between us and all the rest of the team, we've got some, you know, some really useful content that actually still stands firm today in terms of some of those key skills. So let's have a look at why the human edge in sales, why that is such a hot topic right now, whether you have sales as a formal part of your role or you're part of an organization where there is a sales team. So, debs, let me tell you a story.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that. Tell me a story.
Speaker 1:So it was around about the time I had my wake up and smell the silicon moment back in 2016, 2015, 2016. And I'd made it my business to go out to all the kind of tech conferences that I could squeeze into around my day to day life at that point. And there was a fascinating story that I picked up about what happens when you completely remove the human from the price setting aspect of selling product online. And there was this classic story that sort of demonstrated actually, at what point do you need that human in there, just to make sure that everything is okay and it's sensible? So Amazon had the big marketplace that they had where you sell books online.
Speaker 1:So Amazon, you know, is one of the world's biggest vendors selling books, and they had two algorithms that would then go out and basically learn all the information that's there. One algorithm was set to look for the cheapest price and add on 20%. Another algorithm was set to look at another price and minus it by 10%. So I might have the figures mixed up a little bit. My human brain couldn't quite keep up with it, but what you basically had is unbeknownst to the customer looking at it.
Speaker 1:You had these two algorithms in the background, silently competing with each other, and what that meant then was that there was some unintended consequences where the price setting dynamic price setting that was made for a book and it would depend, you know, the more people that search for it, the higher it would then charge, and et cetera, et cetera. So there was this one book called the Making of a Fly. So how flies work, flies and insects that yep, that was on a random syllabus for a course over in the States from a university, like a really kind of dusty old published ones back in the day, and within the space of a couple of hours this book had gone up to be automatically priced by the algorithms at $23 million Brilliant.
Speaker 2:I wonder how many sales they got.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it happened within you know, just so quickly, and I'm sure anyone here that is familiar with the stock market is aware of just all these algorithms that are whirring away in the background that are able to work at an incredible pace.
Speaker 1:But the consequence that then had is is you had a completely ridiculous amount of money that had been priced for something that wasn't actually as premium, as you know, as that was nothing particularly special about this book, but it was almost like a cautionary tale, for anyone is in the world of price setting, sellings, interactions, that actually, if you remove the human completely, at what point does it just have that sniff test of someone going?
Speaker 1:No one is going to pay $23 million for some textbook about how flies and insects work, but the machines wouldn't have recognised that because they would have seen okay, people are clicking on it. Therefore it's popular. Therefore, we will do X, y, z. So I think it's been quite interesting looking sort of eight years on, actually, what role the human in that interaction and some of the work that we've been doing at various conferences and workshops is. I call it the three I approach, which is the intimacy, the innovation and the intuition, those things that are, just as you said, the nuances, so what someone might not be saying in that conversation, as well as the information that they might type in, for example, that informal information that you can pick up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that story, oh my goodness, that's incredible when you think about it. But that's so important about having that human connection as well and being able to be somewhere where you go is that right? And looking to your person next to you and go, that's not right, is it? And go, no, that's not right. Then you can fix it in the moment, and so it doesn't let the machine just run riot right, and I think that's where it's really important is that the connection we have and the relationships we build. So it doesn't. It's not a transit just purely transactional, it has to be relational.
Speaker 2:So how we show up, how we present ourselves, how we listen and I know we'll come on to some techniques in a bit but how we listen really well, and I think that for me has always been how well do you listen to what you're hearing?
Speaker 2:What do you if you're with a customer, a client, a colleague? Um, if you're, you're, you know one-to-one. You, if you listen, you'll understand what it was that they need. So it's identifying what those needs are for somebody in that moment. And you can only do that by listening and then moving into questioning and understanding and creating a space to probe, so you're creating clarity around it, and I think that's the difference around it. That's what a human does exceptionally well, because they can react in the moment, because they're watching all the body language, they're listening to the tone, and I don't think there is a machine out there that can do that just yet. To pivot and take a different tap in the questioning or the listening or the inquiry, because I think we are super good at that and that's what we do really, really well is we can pivot, we read it and change.
Speaker 1:And Debs, I think just to sort of you know, put a bit of context on it. This isn't about let's not have any machines, let's stick like you know, take it back, sort of you know, 100 years or whatever. But it's more, if we know that the machines can read the universe's process data within a glimpse, within a millisecond, why focus your attention as a human on that knowledge process and that information gathering? Actually, could it be you have that sweet spot my friend Paul Matthews calls this of high tech, high touch.
Speaker 1:So if you have then got at your fingertips all the information that you might need about that client or that customer or your product or the service that you're selling, but in that moment, that little relational bit, as you then said about, do I trust you?
Speaker 1:Is there a rapport? Do I feel like you understand me and am I prepared now to disclose some information that might not be written down anywhere, but it's a little bit of insight. That then means we've got that sort of common, that rapport that's been established, and I think what's going to be really interesting is looking at what role a face-to-face interaction in the sales process, the number of people that I know personally and professionally who are still going to conferences to meet and greet and network and create that spark, even though it then might all be email based or process based then after but that initial relational bit, as you then said, to create that spark and connection, and then there's that trust and that relationship can then flourish yeah, I think that's put spot on law because, um, I think that's what is happening is, people want to meet people.
Speaker 2:They don't want to feel lonely or alone doing what they're doing. So that getting back to that world of finding your tribe if you like in inverted commas and then going and find the people that you know you can learn from, um, that's, I think that's what's really going to be the biggest difference. So people don't feel lonely. And I think when you look at the stats around loneliness I can't remember what they are off the top of my head, but it's on the increase if we're not careful because of where the world has gone. But also, how do we encourage people to come in and mix?
Speaker 2:I did a workshop yesterday which it could have been done online, but the company were adamant that every one of the workshops we're running is going to be done face to face because they are asking, actively, asking people to come in and learn in a, in a classroom environment, um, rather than just do it all online. So there's full attention and the conversations that happened were incredible. You would never have replicated that had we just been on a team or zoom call, because people were picking up again on that human connection, the human edge bit, that nuance around it, intuitively stepping in and asking great questions, which that would have got lost, I think.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I think there's a lot to be said about human connection together Absolutely, and I know we're going to move on to a moment about what are those sort of relationship aspects of it. But I think that a couple of things to reflect on that. Number one I think there's an increased I'm certainly seeing that increased joy in being. We can just talk and have a conversation. There's no way I would have said this on a Teams call because it could have been recorded. It's no way I would have put this on an email or in a chat because it can be screenshotted. Right here, right now, in a room, there's six of us chatting about you know how we're going to work together and you can just have that conversation without feeling monitored, which then creates more of that disclosure and more of that trust. And then the other thing, just before we lead into well, what is it in that human element is, I think, sales?
Speaker 1:I mean, I know you know both of us, a lot of our team come from background of being sales trainer. Sales is life. You don't have to have the word salesperson in your job role. You know it's the ability to strike up a relationship, identify the need, match and close. All of the skills that we're going to kind of look at and it's almost like a coaching approach of we're going to have that conversation that is at some point going to arrive at some kind of outcome. So I think it's a lifestyle choice rather than what's in your job title. It's a really useful set of skills.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think so. So should we explore some of the nuances that sit behind different personality types and how that might show up and what we need to consider? Should we do that?
Speaker 1:Yes, let's how that might show up and what we need to consider. Should we do that? Yes, let's. So, debs, talk to me. What's all this? What do you mean about different personality types and that relational approach, as you said? So, yeah, what's on your mind? What do you think you might be useful to share?
Speaker 2:So I think what would be useful to share is that ability to one know thyself and know what style you have when you approach and step into any conversation where you might need to interact basically, and you're transacting, but you need to build a relationship first. So it's understanding how you can utilize and identify what are the key components of your preference, your personality type, because you know we all have different skills and strengths within that. So if we can start to identify what's my strength and skill, what am I going to do? So I might you know, to be able to have a great conversation with somebody but also be able to link back into the human edge skills that we talked about before, about that emotional intelligence bit, to be able to recognize how to adapt and flex in the moment, and I think that's what we need to think of. So people will show up with different preferences around you know how they want to be, so you might get a very direct um, you might get a very decisive, very focused person that's talking to you about what it is they want. You want. You might get someone who wants all the detail, is very analytical about it, they're very disciplined in their approach. That it's a process and we will follow it through. And then you get that reliable, patient, very affable, very relaxed person that will sort of create a good space and a good environment with you. And then what we all love is that person that can be very flexible in the moment, interacts really well, has an imagination where they were to sell a story to you. So you go oh my God, I get it. And it's how we adapt and flex our preferences so that we're presenting in the right way what people are looking for. And I think that's, I think, the confidence to be able to do that with a level of certainty.
Speaker 2:In some cases, people like to know that you know what you're talking about and people can catch a blagger. I think I know, certainly it's. You know, when we have to think about actually I'm hearing what you say. So my recommendation, what I think you know you might consider, would be so being able to, if you like, help solve their problems you're helping somebody solve it rather than fix it for them and therefore being able to be really, um, follow up, proactive, all of the strengths that we have to um, make sure that that person feels like they matter to you in that moment. And I think being able to go the extra mile, that added service, sometimes is the bit you remember. So you know when you we went away recently and you had the lovely a welcome basket Now, we never ordered one, it was just there and there's a handwritten note as well from the owner of the property we were staying at and it just gave you loads of information. Now they probably do it for every single guest, but it felt really personalized to us. It had our names on it, it was just a nice touch.
Speaker 2:And I think how do we get creative and think outside of right? I'm just getting you from A to B and I want you to sign on the dotted line now. How do we create that experience for somebody where you, they are made to feel like they are the only person that you are interacting with? You might have hundreds of people that you're interacting with, but going that extra mile and I think being as enthusiastic as you are with customer one, as you are with customer 204, I think that says a lot about how you look after yourself.
Speaker 2:So, so, how you draw on your own energy preferences to maintain relationships, to establish what's going on, to listen and listen well, and that collaborative approach, I think, is I'm with you, I'm going to walk alongside you as we explore what your needs are. We're going to look at what you're looking for, how can we propose a solution to you. And I think that ability to do that means that in that moment that person just felt a million dollars and they felt valued, and just a hello and a thank you can make a massive difference to somebody's day. And it's our ability to serve others in a way that it's not about us, it's about the other person in front of you, and I think that that's when you get the sweet spot and the joy and you watch that person just light up and you go oh, thank you for noticing, or whatever it might be. So yeah, I love that quote. How do you lose yourself in the service of others? It becomes about them.
Speaker 1:It's never about you, and it's a giving mentality, not a taking mentality, and some of the most accomplished salespeople I've ever had the privilege of working alongside or eavesdropping in as they're having their conversations.
Speaker 1:It doesn't feel like they're selling it feels like, oh okay, there's two sensible, dedicated people having a conversation and you know, trying to arrive is problem solving. It just happens that one of you is then going to send an invoice to the other one as a result of that problem being solved. But it doesn't feel like selling. It's a natural approach of you know, it's a pleasurable experience, and even someone that might be selling you know a huge multi-million pound IT deal. Actually, you know the patience I think is also required to get some of those big deals over the line. I mean, I think I would find that a challenge to work on something that took 18 months to two years.
Speaker 2:So that might be your preference, laura, to like right, let's find it, let's sort it. So that's where we go. Okay, I've got a minute for the long game and I think that ability to know self can be really valuable, because then, if you're in a team and that's your preference, go. Oh my God, this is going to take a long time. Um, what I need from you and can you support me in and you go yeah, let's come up with a way of helping and propose a solution to you. Um, maybe understand what any resistance might be for you, taking help from someone else within the team and then making sure we explore that and then gaining a commitment as to, okay, how are we going to help each other through the next 18 months, because it is going to take that long, but ultimately we're both in it for the North Star bit what's the end goal going to be? So, yeah, it's understanding your style.
Speaker 1:It is, and I think also just from what I've seen as well, there's a reality check of an organisation or a country or a profession that is going through lots of transformational change. I think there's as much selling that needs to happen back of house, getting all of your internal stakeholders geared up and ready. In fact, I've heard people say the client interaction is the easy bit. The challenging bit at the moment is getting the rest of the central support teams on board. You know, because they might be low resource, understaffed. Everyone's wanting everything cheaper, quicker. You know easier.
Speaker 1:And where's the human in all of that as well? So I think those sales skills looking back to what we said at the start is not just for those of us who have sales as part of our job title. Every single one of us, if we're interacting in some kind of supply chain or service chain, has got to identify the need, match and close. How can I help you in each stage of this interaction? So there's that willingness then to work together and then at some point, hopefully you'll have a happy customer, happy client at the end of that.
Speaker 2:And then the relationship as well. Yes, because then you'll get repeat business because you've built the relationship and that person trusts you. You've built the relationship and that person trusts you, and and then people will come back because you've you've been that, you know get that giver, that good human, in that moment where you you've been there to serve and I always get pushed back on that, oh, I'm not here to serve anybody. Well, let's just break that down into current reality around. Well, actually, do you get up and provide your family with a breakfast and put food on the table? Well, yeah, of course I do.
Speaker 2:That's an act of service. Do you volunteer at your local I don't know hospice or health centre or whatever? Well, I do. Well, that's an act of service. So we are serving others. It's just whatever people's perception of the word serve means. I think it's not a lowly, it's not to rock you. I think it's a super powerful position to be in. And that mindset of going I'm giving you something, don't want anything back in return, I'm just giving it to you. That is a good human in my mind anyway.
Speaker 1:But as it happens, there's a happy instinct that most humans have, which is the law of reciprocity. So, if you think the person at the end of the phone or in front or on a Teams call or sitting here around is actually motivated to help me, there's an inbuilt need for balance in the way that we interact with our world, and so actually there'll be that inbuilt thing of they scratch my back. Therefore, I'm much more inclined for theirs to be the first email that I open up on a Monday morning and address, because there's that law of reciprocity that this exists, which is, if you do me a little act of service, I might not be requiring in my mind an equal transaction, but it does actually create this willingness then to pass that favour back in return. So it's of mutual gain, and why wouldn't you want to make?
Speaker 1:human interaction, a pleasure Debs.
Speaker 2:Otherwise, what's the point of it all? Yeah, exactly. Rather than be that, you know like grumpy old person in the corner. Why would you not want to have good interactions with other people, whether you're passing them for a minute or an hour or days, or you're living with them? I just don't understand how you can live under a cloud I can't.
Speaker 1:It's more effort to be grumpy, isn't? It but it is actually enlightened. Refuse to smile if someone smiles back at you yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'd love to ask those people, those, what is really going on for you. Let me understand you, but yeah, it's fascinating.
Speaker 1:Human behavior is best, I think and I know we're going to look at some behavior stuff in a moment, but I just remember back in the day you know my hardcore sales training days there was some stat about how it takes more muscles to frown than it does to smile. That's brilliant, yeah, and I guess summing up, as you said right at the start, this emotional intelligence stuff. How do I use emotion rather than mood to determine the kind of interaction that we're going to have? So should we have a look at some practical aspects?
Speaker 2:Yes, let's.
Speaker 1:Right then, debs. So if you were to summarise what are those inimitable, unalgorithmable, unprogrammable moments of that human interaction, whether it's online, whether it's virtual, whether it's hybrid, however you kind of do it is, we could probably sum it up as questioning, listening, creating momentum.
Speaker 2:Yes definitely that's it.
Speaker 1:So those you know tech will have some amazing, seemingly intuitive questioning funnels that will be doing their thing, but that innate ability for a fully switched on human to be able to think. Hmm, these are the 10 questions I was going to ask you, but the fact you've just told me about that little insight about your weekend let's do a little two minute diver there and who knows where that might pop up, actually that bit of information where we've taken a scenic route in the information gathering stage. So these were my 10 questions, but actually I'm not going to stick to that, I'm going to throw the script away. Let's just have a conversation with some questions. So there was something that we put together back in the day that actually we started to resurrect a little bit more.
Speaker 1:We called it the bids questioning technique we did go on lord, talk us through bids, so b-i-d-s. So it's um, yeah, they might be familiar to if you've ever been on any kind of sales training aspect, but it's a really nice place to to start and it kind of brings almost like that coaching approach to it of help me to understand. So your background questions so how long has your business been operating for? What are your previous suppliers? You know? How have you then done stuff? Then your issue so what is it that you're looking to solve, or what are some of the challenges or the hotspots or the tricky things that you've got going on at the moment? But I'm not going to give you kind of what we do at that point. I'm just going to kind of dig a little bit deeper so then we can get a bit of an understanding of the direct impacts of that issue and what that then does. Is it then what you focus on grows? So it just creates more awareness in that conversation of, oh God, actually the issue of us having a stress team is that the direct effect of that is X, y, z, and then the S stands for solution, which is so if you were to reduce some of the stress levels or reduce the time that's spent in that process. What would that mean for you as a business?
Speaker 1:So you're asking the person in front of you to say to you this is the benefit it would bring from having a solution, and what that then gives you is all the information you need to then be able to very calmly say all right, well, let's have a look at how we can make life easier by reducing the time that's spent in light of some of the things that you've got going on at the moment. Here's my thinking so far. What are your thoughts on that? But the bids approach is where, if you imagine almost the shape of a great conversation is like a diamond. So you've got your rapport building bit at the start, as you were talking earlier on about the different personality styles, et cetera, just even small talk. There might be some people who value small talk about how was your journey on the way in, and for other people it's just waffle. So to be able to recognize that quickly, I won't ask about how long has the building been here.
Speaker 1:This person just wants to crack on so being able to adjust and pivot, as you said in that moment, and then bids is just a really nice little questioning technique that enables you to get under the skin and really listen to then what's kind of going on. So that's the questioning bit. Debs, give us a quick heads up on your advice as a coach around listening and what that actually means in practice.
Speaker 2:Oh my God. So if I said we are 18 second listeners and, oh my God, his name's completely escaped me Tom Peters, that's him, tom Peters. It's so old Lord, but he's right. And every time we say we are 18 second listeners on the whole, where we're ready to respond, we're waiting to respond, we've got a question to ask, we're like, come on, come on, come on, come on, I've got to ask you something.
Speaker 2:And then the idea behind actually is not to be an 18 second listener, it's to be just sit longer, just let the conversation open up and then, with gentle, nudging questions. So what does that mean for you? Silence, let them respond and listen. So you're listening with your heart, as we always call that empathic listening. So you're listening to understand, not waiting to reply.
Speaker 2:Um, so that ability to hold the silence is a gift, because people might need time to think and process what they're saying. Um, so you have to create the space where they can have the space to think and therefore you will listen and prompt and also okay, based on what I've just heard you say, even by saying, based on what I've just heard you say, shows that you're listening. So that ability to then replay back, not war and peace, but just a summary or paraphrasing of what it is enables you to lead in with another question, because then people will, relationships will be built, because they know that you are truly listening. So I think listening is our gift and we don't do it enough because we jump to the conclusion or we have a question, or when too quick to respond, because our time, we feel time is too quick to my con, my, I suppose my call to action on this part would be just stop, just listen, listen well, and then slowly lean in to ask the question, and that makes a big difference with a what and a how, a very open question.
Speaker 2:So what does that mean to you? Yeah, how might you approach that? When? And then the when, when you hear an action, because you can only hear an action if you're listening. Um, okay, so what you've just said is you would love to do da, da, da, da, da. When might you start that? And they go oh, my god. So it's about forward focus, forward momentum, all the time, which comes back to listening, question and momentum.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's why I think I think you just just you just sort of described then that, which is why it's such a sweet set of skills from a human perspective, is to be listening in that moment, purely to listen, and yet have a sense of momentum that you're able to bring in at just the right moment. And that's the human bit of can I sit here patiently listening but also ensure that I close the bottom of this diamond in the conversation with some kind of onwards momentum. And you know, we've worked with clients over the years where the challenge is closing commitment and gaining the deal and having that discipline to follow up and close deals. We've also worked with clients where actually the challenge isn't the closing the deals. The challenge is how do you convert an inquiry into that relationship. And it's that gaining rapport and the understanding.
Speaker 1:So, whether it's the first part of it or whether it's the final part of it, being able to have that sweet mix of skills of I'm the hunter and the gatherer, I'm the farmer and I'm the generator, so to have that sweet spot is why I think, from a professional point of view, it's such an amazing gift, I think, to be able to have a sales approach, not in a way that looks like you're being all hard-nosed selling, in fact, I think to be able to have a sales approach, not in a way that looks like you're being all hard-nosed selling, in fact. I just don't think that works anymore, because I just don't. I think people, as you said, can smell it, sniff a blagger, and then we'll think, oh, actually, you know, can we just keep it on email? I don't really want to spend any more time with you, and the moment we get into this call, you know the kind of, the better it is.
Speaker 2:but I think, yeah, that momentum bit and yet to be able to listen patiently, that's quite a, that's quite a, a different set of skills that have got to be drawn apart in that one conversation, potentially yeah, I definitely think and also I think, and what you've just it sort of just made you think, that person may not want to in inverted commas buy from you in that moment, but it doesn't mean that's the end of that relationship. And I think that's the other thing that sometimes people go oh my god, I haven't got that. So that's about taking. I was only communicating with them because I wanted to take something off them. So that might not be it. And if you're coming from that purist place of I'm just here to listen, I'm here to explore with you, I'm here to understand what you said, your background, your issue that's going on, the direct impact it's having, and and being able to then provide the solution in bids. I think that is the bit around. It may not be just right now for them. It doesn't mean it's never going to happen, but then that relationship that you build is something you could nurture and you move through over time and you'll be amazed.
Speaker 2:I think I've always been amazed when we have people that contact us that we haven't heard from in years, and yet they randomly pick up the phone or drop us an email and say hi, I don't know if you remember me, but and you go. Oh, my God, of course I do. And it's the relationship, it's the connection that you've made that people remember. I think what's the Maya Angelou quote? People forget what you say or what you do, but they will never forget how you made them feel, and I think that is it. If we can create a feeling of goodness, niceness, kindness, care I don't know whatever that feeling, but something that's lovely joy then why would we not build relationships with people and not push them into it, but we enable them to find their solution. We just may be the one that navigates and helps them to find it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, whether that is internal selling, internal service, or with the external, you know, customer, client, whatever. And for the logical ones out there, that's the law of thermodynamics. Second law, which is energy is never lost, it's just converted in another form. So the energy you might've put into a couple of really long calls, that, oh, at that point just didn't get over the line. See you again in a year's time and there might be something that bubbles up, you know, in a slightly different way. And still, that good conversation had a good impact. It just might've needed a bit of time to elapse because there might've been some other things out of your control in that moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. I love that law Wow.
Speaker 1:Talking about creating momentum. Come on then. So, even if someone hasn't got sales as part of their formal job title or part of their description, what might be a call to action? Share the secret that brings this human centric approach to selling really brings it to life.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So for me I mentioned it one earlier the call to action for me was listen, really listen to what your person is telling you so you can really work together and identify what would be a good possible solution for them. And it's definitely not about if you feel like you're desperate. That's the only word I always use. If you're desperate, then no one's going to get anything from you. So I believe we don't be desperate. Be mindful and just take a step back and explore. You know, how am I showing up in that? So really think about how I'm showing up. Am I showing up to give you something or am I showing up to take something off of you? That would be my other call to action. Where are you at?
Speaker 1:Yeah, love it, which I guess is so linked to confidence, isn't it? My share the secret would be let's say, your organisation is having some discussions at the moment about what do we automate? What, then, is our role in all of that? Get them to listen to this and then you can then have a conversation around. Okay, so where do we have those interactions? Where's it then become an online transaction and what's that sweet spot? Because, as we've seen in some of the huge organizations, we've been privileged enough to work alongside.
Speaker 1:Once you've automated it and put that service interaction onto a machine, it's really tricky to retrohumanize it Once it's gone. It's gone, and the impact that can have on a brand experience can be quite big, because to have a human is almost the luxury element now. So I would say, from a share the secret point of view, get a colleague to listen to this, then you can just have a bit of a empowered look at what is that role between the high tech, high touch, and what do we need to start doing? A little bit more of or less of. That means that we can have the benefits of all this amazing information gathering that's out there, but being able to bring it in that moment, in that human spark.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love that Lor.
Speaker 1:Love it.
Speaker 2:So we're on to next week. On to next week, yay.
Speaker 1:So we're going to be looking next week around, yeah, really building on this kind of shifting from tell to ask approach and again bringing that kind of human touch approach to it. So, yeah, I can't wait. I've loved this series, debs, and, you know, maybe in a hundred years time they find these recordings buried in a cave somewhere as the bots have taken over.
Speaker 2:They might reuse them, laura and go. That's a good idea. That's a good idea, yeah yeah, bringing the humans in, which is a nice way to remind them oh have a good week, yeah you too.
Speaker 1:Let's not be egotistical about this. Every day is school day, you know Love it.
Speaker 2:Have a good one, laura. Bye, see you later.
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