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Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
Secrets From a Coach - Debbie Green & Laura Thomson's Podcast
195. Shift Your Service Culture via Your Stroke Economy
In this final part of our 3-part focus on service, this one is all about dialling up your internal and external service experience by focusing on the concept of the Stroke Index.
We are thrilled to be joined again by our close colleague Lindsey Thompson who is an expert in Transactional Analysis and Team Dynamics. She shares powerful insights into how to clean up the internal atmosphere to create a shiny experience for your customer. If no-one is looking out for each other within or between teams, then this impacts even the most hardened of us at a fundamental level - our human need to know 'I matter' which creates belonging and commitment.
Lindsey explains the concepts of Stroke Economy as part of your team health-check and how looking at your Stroke Index is the place to start when looking at building an internal sense of service. A stroke is a unit of recognition - think of it like a behavioural calorie that fuels our relationships. And when everyone is busy, it is even more valuable when we take even just a minute to check-in with each other. If you want to give a customer experience of time, care and respect - then this has to be felt inwardly between teams in order to keep providing this externally.
For leaders (both formal and informal) this is a good reminder of the need to shift from transactional to relational interactions - getting to know your people beyond a superficial level. If leadership was all about just tasking and powering through a do-do list, then you wouldn't need leaders.
(NB: Here is the link to the analogous story that Lindsey references - the Warm Fuzzies)
Lindsey Thompson is owner of LTW Coaching Ltd and as a trainer, professional coach and Emotional Intelligence Practitioner she specialises in TA and Team Dynamics. You can contact Lindsey via Linked In
Curious for more? Here are some of our related episodes:
Ep. 98 Summer School: R is for Relationships
Ep. 137 Keeping Well in a Corporate - a TA Perspective (with Lindsey Thompson)
Ep. 128 Teamship - Minimise Politics, Maximise Pace
secrets from a coach thrive and maximize your potential in the evolving workplace. Your weekly podcast with debbie green of wishfish and laura thompson staveley of phenomenal training. Debs, hello you all right? Oh, do you know what I am buzzing, and should I tell you why? Go on, because I've had a week away. I've stayed at an amazing hotel, nice, and do you know what I loved the most about it? The sense of camaraderie, warmth and hospitality from that team was just amazing, and that's what made it.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's amazing, isn't it, what they were looking after you well.
Speaker 1:They were looking after us well. You could tell the teams liked each other because as you're walking down the corridor, different members would say all right to each other. They were very professional. And, as a group of trainers who go up and down the country spending time in hotels, not every team has that same sense of internal service culture and it can't help but leak out, can it, devs? If a team doesn't like each other and they don't bother about each other, at some point that can leak out to the external customer facing experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you're spot on, and whilst I was delivering up in lovely Scotland, we had great service as well from the internal team. Big shout out to the two people that looked after us well when we were up in Scotland. So it must be something in the air last week that was giving it that vibe of we have to look after people well and making sure we are providing a service. That's our job. So how do we serve well and the team around? I think that's you know. That's our job. So how do we serve well and the team around?
Speaker 1:I think that's amazing law yeah, but whether it's a hotel and hospitality, whether it's a hospital and health care or an academic institution or a financial institution, what we are going to be focusing on this episode with our incredible guest is looking at how do you create an internal service culture, and our amazing guest, lindsay Thompson, is going to tell us all about stroke economy Debs.
Speaker 2:She is. It's right up your street, laura Shall, we listen in.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm going to save it for the stroke bank.
Speaker 2:So, hi everyone, as you can see if you're watching, but if you're listening, I'm joined by lindsey thompson. Now you might recall that we've spoken to lindsey on a number of occasions about various topics, because she's passionate about lots and lots and lots, and the last time we spoke to you, linds, you were doing um halfway through your, and I know that's probably a year ago now. So tell us a little bit first of all, before we get into what we're talking about today, in alignment with our theme for this series. How's your studies going?
Speaker 3:first of all, yeah, they're going well. I think it's getting more challenging. So I started it. I was in lockdown and I thought, oh, it's time's time, that would be great. And it's a four-year master's program, so I'm in my final exam year, so it's all coming a bit oh.
Speaker 3:So, yeah, it's going well, and so I'm studying transactional analysis organization, which analyzes the psychodynamics really that play out in organizations. So the aim of being a cta, you know, a certified transactional analyst is that we are able to analyze and eliminate dysfunctions in people and teams in organizations. Yeah, so it's looking at the whole of the organization, from the structure and the system to the teams and the relationships to the structure and to each other within that system, and then, of course, the at the intra-psychic level, how the people are doing within that team, because they are actually all interconnected. It's and Deb's, like you know, I'm really passionate about it and I'm fascinated by it because it plays out in every day that we walk into a room. Yeah, every organization that that we deal with has a whole set of aha stuff going on. So, yeah, my last year. So I'm just writing the final part, um, final dissertation, final oral, and then I'll be yes, there oh my god, I know I can't believe it's gone.
Speaker 2:It has gone quick in a way, but not for you, but maybe. But I think what you were saying is, you know, we we were obviously talking about internal service, external service how do we provide, um, this customer centric approach? And I thought it would be really useful to talk to you because obviously I've been in the room with you where you have shared this whole piece around that transactional bit, the relational bit, organizational bit, and you just watch, everybody just look at you and go, oh my God, that makes so much sense. So we thought, for this chatting to you, we would use your experience to talk about so what does that mean to provide service within a team? And also, when we talk about the stroke economy because you like talking about that as well and when you say, yeah, linz is going to speak about the stroke economy, everybody looks at you as a little bit like what? Um? But once you explain it, it just like blows their mind. So so tell us, linz, what is it about service within a team that people should be mindful of?
Speaker 3:So you know, we know that people can't connect with people on task. You know we need to go. We need to. High performing teams or teams that work really well together and thrive need to go from that this is my job, this is what I do, this is how I do it to that relational space. This doesn't mean we've got to love each other and be super friendly. You'll be friends. It means that I have to get an understanding of your world as well, how you are. Yeah, you know what's your role, what do you do, what's your priorities, what's your strengths. You know how much I'm asking you to do something. Where does it sit in your world versus my world? So it's beyond that simple. I know what you do and what your type, what your role is.
Speaker 3:So, in order for teams to thrive, we need some basic human needs, and that is the first one. You know is what I'm always mentioning. This deb's from mountain and davidson. This is that basic human need is to matter. Yeah, do I even matter here? You know, that's the unconscious question we will ask ourselves. You know, do I matter? And whether that's in a whatsapp group, a team group, a, you know, someone ignores your message when you drop a message into a group chat, you know you're like oh yeah, all right, yeah.
Speaker 2:Thanks, do you not?
Speaker 3:like me? Yeah, do you not like me? It's a really deep psychological reason. The first thing is mattering Do I matter? And then we go up no, I do matter here. Then the do I get positive recognition? Okay, that's interesting. Do I get some positive reinforcement for who I am and what I do? Yeah, if I get that, then I can go to belonging and I can go to thriving and doing my, performing my task at a high level.
Speaker 2:Before you move on to that. You know, when you say it's going beyond, where people say, oh hello, what do you do? What's your job? How do people get under the skin of that for you so they really understand, rather just have it as a job title? They think they know. How do you get people to go underneath the surface with that?
Speaker 3:I think in 2024 that's more difficult.
Speaker 3:Um, you know, because, whereas we might be sitting in a room together every day, you might get a sense and you might get an understanding, because I see you, you know, I notice things about you and I care enough to have a check-in with you and see what you're doing.
Speaker 3:I might hear you huffing and puffing while you're putting the kettle on and going, oh, they're not having a good day, or something like that. Or I can hear they've had a bit of an argument with someone on the phone that told their child off, while they're not doing something else. And you know stuff, whereas when we're sitting, you know, maybe working in a or a disparate way, we tend to be less able to pick up that stuff unless we have some really honest conversations. And I think, debs, you and I both agree that some of the work that we're doing in the teams is because that isn't organically happening like maybe it used to. So we then create those spaces to be able to say how are we really? This is really me, let's just go below the surface rather than knowing that. You know, I don't know. You've got two kids went to mallorca and yeah arsenal, yeah you know it's that it's going below that, that that subsurface yeah
Speaker 3:I think, when we're talking about leadership and teams, I think it's our, it's the leader's responsibility to take time. Yes, it takes time, deb, it's us, it's not. You know you can't answer a question and go well, I've got've got this. Yeah, this is building trust over time. You know, it's that basic acknowledgement. When you're walking into the room, yeah, you do say good morning, we are checking in. I think it starts with acknowledgement. That taps really deeply into our. You know I matter.
Speaker 3:Yeah, if you're on a team's call and someone is missing, we don't just go oh, oh, I don't think Dave's on. Okay, yeah, where's Dave. Yeah, we know where Dave is. How is he? Everyone checked in with him? Yeah, yeah. So that unconsciously says, when I'm not on that call, someone's going to care that I'm not all right, yeah. Whereas if we just go, yeah, dave's not here. Or do we care about people here? Yeah, yeah. So that acknowledgement can be in such, you know, such basic. I did, I did a team day yesterday and then there wasn't a chair for someone. I was horrified, I got the wrong. I just had more people there than I assumed.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, I hate that as well.
Speaker 3:No, that hits that really, oh, do I even matter then? Am I supposed to be here? Yes, do you want me? Yes, but it's such a psychological need. So acknowledgement is key. I think when we build on that acknowledgement into giving recognition, it's not just about that. I know you're here and you're appreciated.
Speaker 2:It's how do I show you're appreciated? Yeah, and I suppose, as you said, you're right People, I think I'm with you, linz. I do think it's the leader, manager, team supervisor's responsibility to get to know their team. I don't think there's any excuse not to. And a lot of people we hear will say I haven't got the time to do that. In inverted commas, that nice stuff. I don't. I just need them to get on and do their job. But what's the impact of that?
Speaker 3:Well, we know that we've got enough data to know that people are staying longer less time in roles than they've ever stayed. Some of that is generational and some of that is I'd actually never really felt like I really belong here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know, if I'm sitting at home in my lounge and doing this for you, I could be doing this for another someone else. Yeah, that's true, it's that bit where you go. No, these are my people, this is my world, these are the people that I work with. We all matter to each other and we're working together for that joint goal. I'm part of that going, working together for that joint goal, and I'm part of that. Yeah, if you don't, if you haven't created that, you know it's more difficult to get people to work at tasks. There are some roles you can. There are some roles, you know, in some coding and those sort of it, jobs where you don't actually need anybody and you're probably choosing that role because you do want to work as a very, you know, independent individual. But I think the one that the bugbear that I often have is when people say I can do my, you know, as a leader. They say, but I do my task really well at home and that's when I go. Yeah, but your job's not about time.
Speaker 3:Yes, oh, good your job is about engaging, inspiring, making you feel like they really belong to you, making you feel they really matter to you and, you know, role modeling, everything that you're doing, that you know gets people wanting to come to work. So, yeah, yes, we can all do tasks at home. I'll be doing my invoicing this afternoon. It's like that.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't need anybody for that with your tiara on, though I hope you put your tiara on lise.
Speaker 3:I do put my tiara on debs. I don't. I'm a princess um yeah, so it is yes, there are some things we, there are some tasks, things we can do yeah then then we have to be much more intentional about how do I make sure I'm still doing that.
Speaker 3:If people are coming to work and I still don't feel like I belong when I get there because they want to acknowledge me, I haven't got a seat, I forgot to book a desk and then I'm just going to be on a call all day with people that aren't here, then it's. It doesn't impact, doesn't create any sense of belonging.
Speaker 2:And I suppose that's the mattering, isn't it? And that's what you said about the mattering. So when we're thinking about teams generally, and if we have a good leader that's providing a service in inverted commas to their team, what difference does it make to the team dynamic and individuals within that?
Speaker 3:I think it's about how that leader sets the culture around, how we are in this team, and there's a very famous woman called Julie Hay and she came up with a health structure. So if you're just looking at an organization or a team because often the team is representative of the culture of the organization it's like a little fractal really. How we do it here is how everyone's doing it some shape or form. She looks at and says one thing you can do is check and to see how healthy a team is is by looking at its stroke index or its stroke economy. Okay, and this is how. So I know when we're doing this bit of work, deb's stroke always gets a bit of a titter titter ha ha.
Speaker 3:So, um, in transactional analysis, a stroke doesn't mean I'm physically touching somebody. A stroke is one unit of recognition and it can be very tiny. So, for example, if I'm, if I was walking down the corridor, uh, as someone said, oh morning, morning I went, oh, I exist, yes.
Speaker 3:So one of our psychological hungers as a human is. You know, we've got three. It's for stimulus, so having our connection with other humans and having our brain matter working structure, and for recognition. Yeah, okay, so it's really instinctual for us. Do I? Do I exist? Yeah, and then what's how? That one moment of stroke when I go down the corridor and someone says morning. In that second I go, oh, I do, yeah.
Speaker 3:So you get a unit of so that's a unit, so it could be a unit of recognition, is one so in that? In that, if we think about this like a stroke bank, yeah, so to speak, I would go, I've got one in, got you, okay, yeah. And then so there's different types. You can have a positive stroke, unconditional, or conditional. Okay, so a conditional stroke might be Deb's. I love that workshop, you, that section, that workshop you ran yesterday with me. It was great that you doing that.
Speaker 3:So I go, the stroke is conditional on that yeah or it could be unconditional, and the unconditional stroke would be devs. I think you're amazing, oh, and I do thank you so it could be you or not.
Speaker 2:Um now you could have.
Speaker 3:There are some people in your team that would like very quiet recognition, that say thank you, I really appreciate what you've done today, that you really helped out, and I want you to know it matters, thank you. Or some people will like a bit of a brass band, go, yay, let's put it on our intranet and do a big hoo-ha. And there are other people that would hate that. So it's about knowing your team, yes. People that would hate that. So it's about knowing your team. Yes. And even people that say, oh, I don't want, no, it's okay, I'm just doing my job.
Speaker 1:I don't want that. We hear that, don't we? Yeah?
Speaker 3:because at some point they've trained themselves not to need it got you and then?
Speaker 2:but what's the impact of on them? If they train themselves not to need it, where do they get it from?
Speaker 3:they don't take it. So if I said, if I was saying to you that was a great piece of work, devs, and you went yeah, yeah, that's what I do, it's just nothing. Yeah, it's not landed got you, so you're not letting. You're not letting it in, but unconsciously that's still necessary. And the other thing and often if you have a leader like that that's going, yeah, I don't need it they might not think to give it oh, okay, okay, so I've trained myself not to want it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So they might go well, they're doing their job, like he would say, or they would say so how we are with recognition will impact how we do it.
Speaker 3:Okay, that's interesting, isn't it then you know we don't want low, you don't want, you're amazing, you're amazing, you're amazing, you're here. Well done, you got it, you got into that. That is also like the other extreme devalues, and not all recognition is equal. You know, often if you're in an organization and your colleague says to you you know that you're very fond of and you care about, you know that was great today, you go, yeah, thanks, you know. Yeah, it was nice. Yeah, but if the ceo stopped by and said just thank you for that, you're like oh, yeah it goes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it goes up a notch, it goes up.
Speaker 3:You know, recognition is not equal. So people that we have in relationships, like you know, partners them. Telling us that we've not done a very good job can be really painful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly Because we really care about their opinion. Yeah, that withdraws then or takes the units away from us. Is that how it works?
Speaker 3:Yes, draws then or takes the units away from us. Is that, is that how it works?
Speaker 2:so we get our stroke index up by receiving stroke, receiving positive strokes and giving strokes okay so when we give strokes. We also go coaching. Ah, okay, that's cool. So, yeah, it lacks the kindness.
Speaker 3:Yes, it's what we're designed to do it's really interesting when you, when you watch the um, when you watch children, children are really, really tied into stroking. They're very instinctual and very true to how they are. They haven't trained themselves out of anything yet and, if you ever. I once watched my daughter. She gave a lovely stroke to my cousin that had lost a load of weight and she said, oh, angela, you look really lovely, angela, you've lost so much weight. And she said, yeah, I've got a long way to go. Oh, angela, you've lost so much weight. And she said, yeah, I've got a long way to go. Oh, okay. And I saw her face. She was like, oh, ouch, okay, I could see that she felt the pushback of the stroke.
Speaker 1:Whereas us we don't.
Speaker 3:We've trained ourselves out of that, but they do feel it's deep to you. So it's a basic need and I think what's important in a team is how well we stroke Right and what do we stroke. So, for example, we were working with a sales team recently and they tend to get strokes when they do a deal Right, okay, but they might only do half a dozen a year because it's a big piece of work. So what gets stroked in the meantime?
Speaker 2:Yeah, good question. What did get stroked in the meantime? Or they didn't? Not much work. So what gets stroked in the meantime? Yeah, good question. What did get stroked in the meantime? Or they didn't?
Speaker 3:and so what happens is the stroke index is low on the team, right? If none of us are getting strokes, then what's the point? Mojo, I hate mojo, but motivation. Motivation drops, it's your feel. Your feel someone with, with with a low stroke index. So what we was, the work we would do with teams, is to say, okay, what do we give each other strokes for? Yeah, if we're only receiving strokes from above on this, what do we stroke each other for? Yeah, and it's really interesting because often teams go. I don't think we do.
Speaker 2:Okay, so they recognise they're not doing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so one of the questions I'll always ask is what do we stroke each other for in this team? What do we get strokes for? Yeah, and the second question I'll say what does the team get stroked from outside in what?
Speaker 1:do we get a stroke?
Speaker 3:for? Okay. Often, you'll find teams are really dependent on strokes externally. Oh okay, because actually we haven't got a culture of you know, thinking about what we give each other strokes for. What could we give each other strokes for? What could we give each other strokes for? Oh yeah, we don't. Oh okay, but we don't because it's not a habit.
Speaker 2:It's not a habit. So how quickly, when you focus them in on that and they go, oh, maybe we don't, how quickly do they then come up with things that they could stroke their team Immediately, really. So they do know it Immediately, immediately immediately.
Speaker 3:I think the other thing to the other thing to notice as well is when, when teams are low on strokes, we tend to play psychological games like the drama triangle yeah because we tend to play more games when we've got a low stroke index. Yeah, and once we get into it, you know. We also know when you play drama triangle you never get the stroke you want and often I think most of I'd often say there's also a disconnect between knowing the stroke I need and asking for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that must be difficult for people if they've never maybe thought about what do I need? Yeah, from my team, my boss, my manager, and and then I suppose the other added layer then is I don't know now how to ask this, because I might have been a member of that team for a long time, so they feel a bit odd asking so how do?
Speaker 3:people overcome that. Some of this, to be honest, is just bringing it into consciousness. We all know the feeling.
Speaker 3:For example, you know what's a really easy example of missing a stroke. Yeah, you know when you're, if you're driving down the road and you let someone through, yeah, and then you pull over for them. Psychologically I need you to acknowledge stroke me for my effort. It's not much, I've only pulled over, but I do. I do need that, you know. And when we, when we don't get that, yeah, that really oh, makes us feel really cross and I can't believe you didn't say thank you.
Speaker 2:Certainly I do anyway yeah, well, I do as well.
Speaker 3:It's not really, and then you're like, yeah, because the feeling is I deserve a stroke for that. Yeah, and often, when we're doing work as a team or I'm doing work as an individual for for the organization, I, if I've busted my gut, I'm really pushing it. No, I need someone to acknowledge the effort and the time and the oh all of me that I've put into this and when, when you don't get it, you'll feel it, but you might not always know what that is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, got you Okay.
Speaker 3:Just just just. I don't need you to go. This is a brilliant piece of work, lynn. I just need you to go. Yeah, I've noticed that you've given a lot for that, and thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so people have to have a real good level of awareness then within their team. Right, they have to. If they haven't got that level of awareness for whatever reason, how easy is it for somebody to start to notice?
Speaker 3:So I think when we do this piece of work in teams, it is fascinating because it changes really quickly. Oh, okay, because it's hardwired to what we actually psychologically need, even those people that go. I don't think I'm going to like it. I go two weeks, two weeks. They're just logically need, even those people that go. I don't think I'm gonna like it, I go two weeks, two weeks are just going. Thank you, yeah, um, you know, give it two weeks, you will notice it's more.
Speaker 3:It does get easier quite quickly yeah, and then what I try to do is make it. Let's make it fun, yeah, let's have a fond curiosity about how we work together as a team, so we kind of set some of the things that we think should get stroked and we can't make. And then what we do is we set up saying if someone gives you a stroke, thank you for that. Then you have to say thank you, even if you might want to go, oh, it's all right, just do my job. We go, no, thank you.
Speaker 3:And then sometimes we Conscious yeah, conscious, thank you, because we both know this is awkward, because we've agreed it we go you're bringing a bit awkward there. You go a little bit, but I'm saying thank you, yeah, and then sometimes we'll get a one up. Well, we'll go, thank you, I appreciate you, saying that, oh, okay, yeah, um so, and then we we often get into that space where we might even then, because it comes part of the language because we go oh, look, I gave you a stroke there. Thank you for that stroke. Oh, I noticed that stuff comes into play. Even though it's fun, it's still having the same psychological effect it's still working for us.
Speaker 3:Yes, so then teams can shift really easily. One team that I work with in their morning check-in they say who do who in the team? Would you like to give a stroke to this morning? Okay start their team day with, you know, bringing it into the conversation straight away. You know, we can't assume that everyone's getting strokes outside at home. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, they might not be right. The only stroke they might be getting is what they're getting at work.
Speaker 3:Yeah yes, and we know that if you know what you stroke, you get more off, right, okay, yeah, so the strokes behavior means we psychologically want to do it more. It's how we're hardwired. It's how we've been hardwired from children. We were very free and easy and then at some point we adapted. To what recognition. So if you were taught to work hard and please others and, you know, be polite, we definitely would do that because we got a. Oh, thank you.
Speaker 2:Well done.
Speaker 3:Good girl. We definitely would do that because we got a. Oh, thank you, well done, good girl. So we're hardwired to to do that and you know, if we don't get strokes and we get very low, teams tend to start playing psychological games which then can become very damaging, as we know. Yes, and also as a human, when we're low on the strokes, we, we no longer thrive. Yeah, okay, which we don't, and then we start with them. Then we will. If you have, if our stroke index is low, we will look for any stroke. Any stroke will do, including negative.
Speaker 2:I was just going to say, then that might be not the good ones for us.
Speaker 3:No. So, for example, when Libby was little and I was working from home, if she was sitting quietly, I never noticed. To be honest, right, yeah, okay, and she might not have got any strokes for sitting quietly because I'm so busy, absorbed in my tasks. And what she discovered is she jumped on the kitchen table. I really went bonkers, get down, get down get down, but she got recognition.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she got something. She got something.
Speaker 3:We sometimes see this in a team day sometimes or an organisation, you get that kind of little disruptor in the corner maybe, and I go, I know, I understand, yeah, sometimes, or an organization, you get that kind of little, that disruptor in the corner maybe, and I go, I know, I understand, yeah, you might just not have any recognition. So I just say thank you for your input. I appreciate that and, if you can hold that thought, I'm going to try and cover that later, rather than going what? Yeah, yeah, which is what you're instinctively want to say. Yeah, okay, I hear you, I hear, I hear your point. Thank you, because, because we don't know what their stroke index is, no, and that's interesting, isn't it yeah.
Speaker 2:So, when we're thinking about moving forward from this, if anybody is listening and going, how do I even start to do this? What would you suggest they do?
Speaker 3:I would say there's loads of things. There's a really lovely story to read online. Okay, there's loads of things. There's a really lovely story to read online. It's called the Warm Fuzzies. The Warm Fuzzies, the Warm Fuzzies. It's by Claude Steiner. It's a famous book. It's a children's book that he wrote many, many years ago about this and it's a children's story and the story is so lovely and if you've got children, it's worth reading it. So the story is children would give warm fuzzies and they'd receive warm fuzzies, and warm fuzzies are strokes, and they were given freely and received freely and everyone was happy in the village. And then one day the wicked witch came along and gave them a little whisper and they said the the warm fuzzies are going to run out oh okay, fear.
Speaker 3:So what did people do? Stop giving them? Stop giving them? Oh, oh, that's sad. And if we stop giving them, what happens to the amount we receive?
Speaker 2:Yeah, drops. And then the impact on us as humans is, and then the village began to be an unhappy place to live.
Speaker 3:And it's a lovely book. I'll say read that first, because I think that explains strokes better than any you know 300-page textbook ever will. And I think those questions to ask you know, often we see like a mismatch in stroking. So I'm saying one thing but I stroke something else.
Speaker 2:So the team.
Speaker 3:for example, I know we got asked to come and do a lunch and learn for somebody around wellbeing and you're like shouldn't they be having their lunch maybe? Yeah, that's true, if we really care about their wellbeing and they're saying you know, this well-being is really important and we want our people to have a good work-life balance, but actually what gets stroked is oh, look at you working late.
Speaker 3:thank you, you're doing well yeah actually, if I were being congruent in their stroking, they would be saying what you're doing here yeah, we'd love you to be at home now spend yeah, we're charging your batteries and sharpening your rack so you can come back strong tomorrow. That should be acknowledged. So it's that real disconnect between you. Know what I think you're stroking to what is actually being done.
Speaker 3:It's interesting, so it's been congruent. I think our first question to ask is what do we stroke each other for in this team, and they will be able to name it. I think we're moving away from that place where you know, bringing it to our consciousness, so we're talking about it. I say is your first step? You know, where do we feel like we're missing strokes?
Speaker 2:Yes, that's a great question.
Speaker 1:What would you like?
Speaker 3:to be, stroked for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, and making sure it aligns.
Speaker 3:A team I was working with recently. They'll often will get a very well done team A thank you for that piece of work. You smashed it. But three people on that team no, they worked harder than the other four. Right got you. So, even though I'm getting a stroke, I'm going. Yeah, but I didn't that was mainly me that was mainly me that did that, so that's a missed stroke. Yes, actually, we special mention two yes and they need someone.
Speaker 2:So, yes, and they need someone. So the acknowledgement is there. Yeah, it's so fascinating, isn't it? So if there was one piece of advice you would give moving, you know, moving on from this for people to explore apart from reading the warm fuzzies.
Speaker 3:I love that title by the way, I love it.
Speaker 2:I feel like I want to get some of those little squeegee things that you have. I look a bit like you're like. They look a bit like dandelions. You're like yeah, I like them, I'm gonna find them. What other piece of advice would you give to somebody about how can they really consciously start thinking about the service they give to their team and overcoming any excuses they might have so that they start to acknowledge and recognize the team in in the way it should be? What would you suggest?
Speaker 3:I think it's recognizing that your role is actually making sure people feel acknowledged and making sure people feel like they matter. You know, if you can do that, that's the baseline requirement, psychological need, if you can make sure they're getting their strokes for them and what they do, and that we are bringing it into our consciousness because that enables you to have those more difficult conversations like feedback and difficult feedback and difficult conversation. If you've done all that, there's so much trust, so much depth to the relationship. Those, those conversations become easy.
Speaker 3:If you're trying to come in and have difficult conversations with people, yeah, without all the other times making sure they've felt like they've mattered, they've been acknowledged, they've been recognized, they become ridiculously difficult and they've got a really difficult, like a really long good chance of them not working, yeah. So this is about. This is about thinking about. It's not just the doing, it's the human that's doing the doing, that needs it most and even if people don't think you don't think people do, even if you say, and they haven't got to take it, you can still give it it.
Speaker 3:Yeah exactly I love that.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, it's so fascinating talking to you about this and you know we feel. I feel like we, you know we've been on this little bit of a journey with you because every time you're, you've been learning throughout the last four years. I know a lot of this, you knew a lot of this stuff, but the depth you now go into with it and we sit there and we go and even we're learning, we're facilitating with you and you just want to ask more and you want to be a delegate in that moment to go tell me more. What does that mean? How's the impact? So, to have you on today to be able to really pick into your brains and ask you those questions that we maybe can't ask in the room as the facilitators that are facilitating with you. It's been so fascinating, linz, thank you for that lovely stroke.
Speaker 3:Thank you, you're very welcome.
Speaker 2:I Fascinating Linz. Well, thank you for that lovely stroke. Thank you.
Speaker 3:You're very welcome. I will say thank you for that. I will say thank you very much and thank you so much to you for the amazing job that you and Laura do to create this space so that I can be here to do it. So thank you.
Speaker 2:Pleasure. So we're going to ensure thank you 20,000 words away from that. You'll make it happen, Linz, I know you will Just go with it. And then what we do is we do a bit of a follow up to say so what else are you picking up? As a result of strokes, fuzzies, whatever you want to call them, so we can see what impact they have when we're providing service for a team and then maybe what that looks like if we're providing service outside of our team.
Speaker 3:How do we do it?
Speaker 2:outside of our team, so we'll definitely explore that with you, is that?
Speaker 3:all right, liz. Thank you, love that. Thanks, deb.
Speaker 2:Thank you Thank you so much for your time. As always, it's a pleasure and, yeah, good luck with your writing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love coming on at half past seven in the morning.
Speaker 2:We're committed. I cannot thank you enough, seriously. Bless you, bless you. Thanks, deb, take care. You Love you. Bye, so go on then, laura, talk to us about what you took from that and adding to your stroke bank.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, deb, I've got so much to reflect on in my own personal time. That was just incredible. So just what Linz was saying about and I've had to talk about it a couple of times and you, just as she said, you see people in a room, kind of eyes light up going. Oh my God, I get it. And what were some of the phrases around shifting from transactional to relational level. Actually finding out about your colleagues and whether that's a leader or a colleague within the team.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely and we talked about that before, laura and I know we talk about that in rooms is I'm not asking you to take them home and love them and live with them.
Speaker 2:What I am asking you to do is find out a little bit more about them. So you're going beneath the surface, so it isn't just a transactional, superficial relationship. There is a level of trust and respect going on there because you've gone under the surface a bit and because once you understand what makes people tick, what makes them not tick, what they love, what they loathe, actually then you can adapt and flex your approach to get the best out of that individual when you're working alongside them. So, yeah and she talks brilliantly about how the warm and fuzzies was sort of really important and that ability to just I think it's just the ability to stop and just take a moment and reflect on, like we said at one of our earlier pods, you know, am I here to serve? Am I giving you a service? I'm giving you a service and I'm not expecting anything back in return. And whilst we looked at external, I think just as importantly, internally as well. It makes a huge difference for people to feel that they matter, and that's when she talks about mattering.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and for any organisation that for whom employee retention is a big topic at the moment. That Warm and Fuzzy's book, I mean it's brilliant as I read through the sort of synopsis of it. It's basically the Trolls movie, yeah, and so the Trolls and the Bergens, and I just thought it was brilliant. So, rather than an employee feeling like they've got their job and they're being held by the Short and Curlies, it's I'm in my role and I'm engaged by the warm and fuzzies, you know, it's just. It's just that flip between do I want to be here or not? And therefore does that mean then, when I sort of turn from one way to another and I'm facing a customer, client, patient, student, that the smile is genuine, that I'm being authentic, because you can't paste on a false smile for eight and a half hours a day. It's got to come from a genuine sense of I like it here, I feel like I belong, and that internal service culture really is the mirror for the external service experience that your customers are going to experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, definitely, it was just. It was just so good and, as you said, we've heard her talk about that and it makes sense, and it's just that. Find the time to make it happen. I suppose that actually, on reflection, that would probably be my call to action would be make that time, not find it, just make it to ensure you're checking in with yourself as to whether you are providing the warm and fuzzies and that good internal customer service approach, because, you're right, the knock-on effect of that is huge. You just like drop that stone in and watch it ripple out. That can start with you. It doesn't matter what level you are in an organisation. You can impact on people in the way that you're choosing to be each and every day. So choose wisely would be my call to action.
Speaker 1:Oh, brilliant. I think that links to my share, the secret, which is you don't have to wait until you become the CEO of an organisation to create those ripples. 100%. Get a colleague to listen to this and then it doesn't feel quite so awkward if you can see there's someone else who's also kind of seen the light and thinking do you know what? If we need to up our external game, it's got to start from within, so even just to have some of that shared language that Linz takes us through so eloquently and so accessibly. But sometimes it's a bit easier if you feel like there's someone else who gets you and gets what you're sort of trying to do. So that way we might share the secret.
Speaker 1:Get someone else in your organisation to listen to this, and then together you can concoct your plan to create warm fuzziness.
Speaker 2:I love that.
Speaker 1:With lots of strokes, with lots of strokes, save that for your stroke bag, that with lots of strokes, with lots of strokes, save that for your stroke bag.
Speaker 2:I love it I love it. So that was. I mean, we had such a blast with this series. Actually, it's been really good to revisit and remind ourselves as well, hasn't it? It was, I just loved it, the conversations we've had, but also listening to Linz. I think it just sort of summed it up really well for what we were talking around. Just, you know, lose yourself in the service of others, but what does that actually mean? That's Gandhi's quote, not mine, by the way, so just put that out there.
Speaker 1:So we've got a new series coming, haven't we? Yeah, we certainly have. So this one is all about summer specials. So we're going to take a slightly new, refreshing approach. Just for summer, we are going to have a little happy hour that we invite you to join with us.
Speaker 1:They don't all last an hour, it's more like a shot, a happiness shot Happy shot, happy shot, and so we've got some really useful little secrets for success cocktail moments we have that we're going to take you through shaken and stirred, and then we'll resume normal service the month after. So really looking forward to our summer happy hour specials.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I am as well. Laura Should be great fun as always, so looking forward to it.
Speaker 1:Yes, in the meantime, debs, have a warm, fuzzy week, not one where you feel like you're held by the short and curlies with all your various responsibilities.
Speaker 2:Yes, that would be very painful, so I'm not planning on that type of week, laura. So I look forward to our shots of happiness.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. Have a wonderful week.
Speaker 2:You too lovely.
Speaker 3:Bye.
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