Mina Jacqueline The Ultimate Buyers Guide for Body Contouring Technology

Mina-Jacqueline Au is the Founder of VivreSKIN, VivreSKIN Laboratories, VivreSKIN Academy, and VivreWELLNESS*

She is also a member of the American Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, serves as an advisor at the famed Institut Pasteur Paris, and is a member of MENSA International, an exclusive organization for those with extraordinary IQ and uses that gift for human advancement.

In this episode, Mina shares her thoughts on 13 of the top body contouring devices today in the market ranging from Emsculpt to cavitation devices you find on Alibaba.

Connect with her on IG @vivreskinlabs

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Transcript

BBS 93 Mina Jacqueline The Ultimate Buyers Guide for Body Contouring Technology
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[00:00:00] Austin: So after, I don't know, a million people sending in mails, demanding that we bring Mina back for a second episode with Mina. She is joining us again today. Mina, thank you for being on the show today. 

[00:00:17] Mina: Thanks for 

[00:00:17] Austin: having me. Awesome. So I wanna make sure the viewers and audience members know who you are so quick bio here outta the gate, and then we're gonna launch into the theme and topic of today, which is a really exciting one.

[00:00:29] If you can't tell, uh, based on the, uh, the timber Ray and the volume of my voice here, but this is what we've never done on the ultimate buyers guide to body contouring. Technology. So listeners viewers, if you're watching this on YouTube, there are 13 systems we're gonna cover today. Cool. Sculpting in sculpt sculpture, true sculpt Venus freeze, Venus legacy, BTL, vanquish, Alexis accent, prime eon, which is a very exciting product.

[00:00:57] Red light therapy and the, oh, is it our [00:01:00] favorite Mina cavitation devices from China? 

[00:01:03] Mina: Well, let's see. I have lots to say 

[00:01:06] Austin: about that. let's let's see. We'll see. So we're gonna cover this in a very specific dare I say, near scientific method of, uh, we'll cover the product high level first, then we're gonna get into the science and then we're gonna speak to the consumer reviews.

[00:01:21] Mm-hmm and lastly, a Mina, Y NA on the device, would she consider adding to her practice so quick, not Amina, so you all know, and more importantly, why you should listen. If I were you and I was a listener or a viewer of this particular video, I would be thinking, who is Mina? Why should I care? To listen to her.

[00:01:39] And let me tell you why Somina is the founder director of vs scan repair clinic. She's also the founder and CEO of vs. Skin laboratories vs. Skin academy and V wellness. She's a member of the American academy of anti-aging medicine. She serves as an advisor at the fam. Now this is my French [00:02:00] game here on full display Institute, pet, uh, pastor petty, which is probably wrong in pronunciation.

[00:02:05] So not wrong. You're so, so not wrong. OK. Awesome. And she's a member of Mensa international. Why should you care? Well, folks from Mensa have very high cue and they use that to propagate human flourishing and human advancement. Very, very exciting community. Um, she's been featured on Dr. Oz NBC today, wall street journal live, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:02:28] I could bore you all to tears with her five mile long resume of accomplishments, but here's what you need to know. Listen to Mina. She is one to listen to. So preamble outta the way, let's start with the. Billion dollar name that we've all heard of. Cool sculpting, cool scope. 

[00:02:49] Mina: Don't we love cool scope. So cool scope is, is a generally very, very good machine.

[00:02:54] You know, definitely one bad I've had to assess whether I should bring in or not. [00:03:00] Um, it is very saturated. Cool scope is owned by a very large company that has lots of funding for advertisement. So it's become a household name and it's been around for a while. Um, the technology itself, if you ask if it works or not, it does it, it uses Crysis where it deep freezes the, the cells of the, uh, the fat cells.

[00:03:21] So what happens is one, the dead cells are just stead and dying there. It gets purged out through the lymphatic drainage system. So with something like that, there's a lot of patient, um, Patient education that's needed from the provider end. And that's something I see all the time, you know, with a lot of physicians where, when they're looking into a machine, you have this laser rep sitting in front of you, they tell you what's great.

[00:03:46] What's good. And they're like, okay. Okay. And then they do a demo and they see it works, which in the case of cool scope, it does work. Um, and they're like, great. Let me bring in the machine. And now mind you, these machines are lots and lots of [00:04:00] money. Um, and you know, then they just go straight into the selling mode.

[00:04:05] However, one thing people tend to forget is to truly look at clinical studies, look at the reports of all their adverse events and with anything and everything in an aesthetics medicine, there's always adverse event, Botox, injections, anything doesn't even have to be devices. Now, some of these are minor, some of these are major and you need to see what there are, that has been collected over the years and in the.

[00:04:30] Problem with cold sculpt is actually, there are a few issues. One is that because the applicators that's needed to put on the area that they want to lose. Um, it's stationary. So with over time of, you know, putting, and sometimes these are, um, user issues, you know, they might not have a qualify technician.

[00:04:53] That's doing it. So either the setting's too high, they put it too cold. I'm not really sure cuz I don't have cold scope [00:05:00] myself, but I don't know if there's like a setting where they can adjust the temperature. But the fact that is that it's there. For an extended amount of time, it can cause burning of the skin because the cold technology has to truly penetrate through many layers of the skin before it even reaches the fat.

[00:05:17] And not only does it reach the fat, you have to have it to go through the fat, to kill the fat cells. So you're going deep and I've had patients where they have gotten cool sculpt elsewhere. Come to me where I need to fix skin burns. Um, and so that's a big issue. The other issue is fat cell. Um, hypertrophy.

[00:05:38] So instead of shrinking the fat with time, the fat actually becomes hypertrophy. Now that doesn't mean that they got fat in that area. It's the fat cell itself. It's manipulating and mutating that fat cells at this point. Nobody, no one knows why on what causes it, but there has been adverse events with that.

[00:05:59] [00:06:00] Uh, one famous one is made famous by the supermodel Linda Evangelista, where she has claimed that quote unquote, her face was deformed from the usage of cool sculpt. Um, now she's not deformed, but I guess when you know, you have somebody that's so beautiful and so perfect. Looking any little, little imperfection.

[00:06:20] Deformity to her. Right. So, um, but that's not to be taken lightly as a provider. That's assessing the machine because that needs to be known you by the machine. That's your risk. And it's your responsibility to also advise the patient of that ahead of time. You know, we, none of us want lawsuits, so 

[00:06:41] Austin: God, no, of course not.

[00:06:42] I I'm looking at a study here from, uh, PubMed central that was published, looks like in 2014, June 26. So it is a bit dated at this point. Mm-hmm um, but there are some high praise or is some high praise for. Cryo lysis in [00:07:00] particular mm-hmm has been proven to be a very safe method for, and I'm quoting here.

[00:07:03] Cry. Ly lysis has been proven to be a very safe method for body com uh, tour and is accomplished with only minimal discomfort. Um, further up in the study, it says cry. Lysis was shown to reduce subcutaneous fat at the treatment side, by up to 25% after. One treatment and improvements we're seen in 86% of the treated subjects.

[00:07:27] Um, so yeah, it, it, it seems like this approach is effective. There just are some side effects to be sensitive to 

[00:07:35] Mina: exactly, exactly. I mean, it, it's just certainly effective. I've seen my own patients as Scott it, you know, and it's one of the very few Mach, uh, methods in terms of the hundreds and thousands of body machines out there that does not require multiple session.

[00:07:50] Of course, there's some, you know, and depends on the patient's body fat content as well. You may need two sessions. You may need some people might need three, but generally [00:08:00] I have seen changes after one session. And that is very rare when it comes to body countering machine that is noninvasive. Um, and another thing about cold, the, the signs of cold, um, you know, as somebody that basically fixes skin looks at skin all day, um, Cold is always safer than heat, right?

[00:08:21] Cold does not produce pigmentation. Heat will induce pigmentation in patients that have either Mola. And a lot of them don't know they have Mola. Um, it also triggers pigmentation in patients with skin type four and above skin type four being me, Asian skin. And then it progressed to darker colors. Those patients are very, very hard to treat when it comes to suns spas, melasma freckles, any kind of spot because you know, somebody that understands laser medicine.

[00:08:52] We know that certain heat waves, certain heat, length, frequency, and all that put together will [00:09:00] trigger to make things worse. So I had a patient and this is something that was jaw dropping to me that came to me and she's like, I just have lots and lots of sunspot. And I'm like, sure, come. And she's Asian.

[00:09:10] So she's skin type four and long story short. She had showed me a picture of her after she gave birth. And it was just, you know, slight little marks went to a very, very reputable dermatologist. I don't know if she saw him or, you know, one of his NPS or anything like that, but they put her straight up on, um, 10 session laser and it looked like it worked, you know, it all diminished.

[00:09:35] However, six months later, not only did they come back, it came back with a vengeance. And then now when the time she walked into my office, she looked like she had dirt on her skin. That's how dark it got. And upon first look, she has Malama. So now you have the perfect storm of not using laser devices on somebody that is a skin type four and has Malama.

[00:09:56] And, uh, so I mean, long story short, we treated her and now [00:10:00] she's super happy. We put her on, on a great regimen as well for, at home to continue maintenance of, of suppressing Malama because unfortunately Malama, there's no cure. Um, and that's a hormonal thing, you know, you get that yeah. Being pregnant and things like that.

[00:10:15] Um, so that's, that's a problem with a lot of providers and, and, you know, my word of caution is with any device we talk about is to truly understand it and not just listen to the rep or even the doctors that the rep connect you with, because just know they get paid, um, talk to people that has it, you know, other providers do your research, ask for clinical studies.

[00:10:38] That's, that's the best thing you can see how many ethnic patient has been treated, you know, with that device. So with cool sculpt, it's very safe because cold does not trigger. Pigmentation. 

[00:10:51] Austin: So, yeah, which is interesting. Cuz in that same study it says, uh, very last paragraph cry. Lysis is safe for all skin [00:11:00] types.

[00:11:00] Yep. With no reported pigment changes mm-hmm and is safe for repeated application. So the, the takeaway here is something like. There's a difference in terms of the possibility or the surface area and, and how wide it is. Let's say for, uh, pigmentation concerns. The, uh, the, well, you said Malama is, is triggered by hormonal changes, not necessarily from device, 

[00:11:22] Mina: right?

[00:11:22] So anybody can have Malama right. And that, you know, and these are body devices. So it it's a little easier, but, you know, for people that would be looking at something that can be used on the face. I mean, there, there was a lot of questions they need to be asking and not only asking a rep will answer anything to say, sell the device.

[00:11:40] You need to be looking at the clinical studies that is done with that machine to showcase that it is really truly effective. Everybody's gonna say their things are all for all skin type. I've got pigmented with a microneedling machine, uh, RF microneedling machine that says it's all skin type safe. I mean, that doesn't mean anything to me, 

[00:11:59] Austin: [00:12:00] show me the data.

[00:12:01] Is the point. Yeah. Is it, is it sensible to be, maybe this is my inner neuroticism coming out, but I'm looking at disclosure statements on, on clinical studies. So in this particular study here, which again is the, the one that I've been, uh, mentioning, which the title of it, for those of you that are curious, uh, in terms of looking it up is cry SIS for evasive body contouring clinical efficacy, and patient satisfaction is the, the study name.

[00:12:26] Now at the very bottom of this, uh, I want your feedback on the footnote section. Like I was alluding to with disclosure statements in this particular study, they report the authors report, no conflicts of interest in this work. So is there, or have there been instances where, and this might be a little in the weeds, but I think this is helpful for due diligence in researching products.

[00:12:45] Has there been, or have there been instances that you have seen where there have been conflicts of interest because perhaps a study was, I dunno, done by. Whatever someone that would have a conflict of interest, that should be something that buyers look out for. Yes, 

[00:12:59] Mina: absolutely. [00:13:00] As a matter of fact, a good friend of mine who is a pretty, a very, a very well known dermatologist out in Chicago.

[00:13:06] He does a lot of studies, not on only just devices, but, you know, skins and things like that. And, and these are published studies. So there's a difference between white paper and published studies, published studies are actually published. They follow certain regulatory guidelines that needs to be followed and white papers are things done in house.

[00:13:26] You know, I. Could tell you who might have a lab to do the study. And there's, there's nothing wrong with white paper, you know, to me it's still data, but you know, sometimes it can get questionable because it's not regulated. Mm-hmm . So this friend of mine who, who does all these studies is also, uh, a medical director for a laser company.

[00:13:47] Um, in terms of, he he's basically like their doctor advisor. Um, so he's not part of the laser company he's just paid by them at the same time. Of course, because these companies know him, he does a lot of laser [00:14:00] studies on not only this company, but also all the other companies out there. Um, so. I guess on paper, it could be considered conflict of interest, but when it comes to somebody and I, I, this is something that I guess other people can't discern really, you know, but for me, like I know who he is.

[00:14:19] He is somebody that has a very huge name in the dermatology world. Um, you know, and being that this is a published studies and he has to follow certain guidelines. It's the conflict of interest. Doesn't get to play a role in it because he is so restricted by the things that a published studies need to have.

[00:14:40] And when I say published studies, you will find these in the American journal dermatology or other like publications that are notable, that are known to publish actual studies. 

[00:14:52] Austin: Got it. Okay, cool. So something to certain. Be thinking about as you're making an investment decision in a new system. Okay. [00:15:00] Um, okay.

[00:15:01] So I do wanna, I wanna get into the consumer reviews, uh, and the final Mina's yay. NA on this type of device or maybe something more like who this might be for. Right. Uh, one thing though, before I get into that is at the end of this study again, uh, well, sorry, the end of the abstract, there's a line that says, although no procedure has been accepted as the gold standard for non-invasive body, Contra is yet cry.

[00:15:26] Lysis is considered to be both safe and effect or efficient. The high patient satisfaction rate. The thing that stands out there mm-hmm is the no procedure has been accepted as the gold standard for noninvasive body contouring as of 2014. So we'll, we will continue to, uh, go down this path and, and maybe throughout or at the end of this we'll figure out, well, maybe that is the gold standard.

[00:15:46] So right more to come on that for the, uh, audience. Let's jump to the we've already gently touched on the science. Any other notes on the science you'd wanna mention with cool. No, not 

[00:15:58] Mina: really. I mean, it's pretty [00:16:00] straightforward. Of course, there's all these like little, little things and, and you know, this is another thing you could have company a selling something very similar as company B and they're both Ola policies.

[00:16:10] And then a company will say a well, we have also this additional technology that will penetrate the cold deeper. I'm totally making this up by the way. and then pen company B will say, oh, well, the reason why this actually works is because our cold technology wraps the cold around the fat itself. It's, there's a lot of fancy wording that is very technological and very clinical and laser companies are.

[00:16:35] The best people to do it. Like if I ever need copywriting for anything I need to sell and I need to sell, now I am hiring somebody that copyrights for a laser company. these are all very similar technology. And may while maybe what they claim is yes. True. You know, this may penetrate the bird. This may wrap the cold around, you know, the cell it's all the same, nothing.

[00:16:57] The fact that we're not breaking [00:17:00] skin, you know, such as actual lipo suction. There's only so much you could do. And so hence why going back to cold sculpt, it is considered one of the most, uh, or no, I should say one of the more effective treatment machines, because that's kind of, I wanna say as close to lipo as you can get.

[00:17:19] Um, and hence why, you know, as we talk about the other machines, everything takes multiple sessions. And when I say multiple, some could be up to 10 sessions because you can really go so deep, no matter what technology you have, whether you're using heat or RA or, uh, cold or radio frequency, it doesn't matter.

[00:17:37] You can't, you just, without opening you up you can only go so deep. 

[00:17:44] Austin: Fair enough. So be leery of fancy copywriting. Yes. Which, uh, we're all 

[00:17:49] Mina: lasers company. Are they Excel in it? They, they are number one. I have to say. 

[00:17:54] Austin: Sure. So if you're looking to higher talent, maybe go steal a, uh, copywriter from a laser company.

[00:17:58] Evidently yes. [00:18:00] Okay. Well, let's get into the consumer reviews cuz the, the other piece of this as well is the consumer's perspective of a product, not to say that placebo effects are necessarily at play here, but certainly public perception of a product as a investor in a technology is something to be considered and factored into your algorithm of decision making for the acquisition of a system.

[00:18:23] So in the case of cool sculpting, we're gonna be using RealSelf as our, our go to for reviews and rankings ratings rather. And so in the case of cool sculpting, it has an 80% worth it rating with 4,455 reviews as the time of this. Any observations on that, or any reasons why maybe it's not higher or why it's not low or anything that jumps to mind with that particular?

[00:18:48] No, 

[00:18:48] Mina: I actually think it's right on par to what it, where it is. And, and also, you know, with when it comes to ratings and reviews. And of course, I look at those too, um, there're factors, you know, just, just like [00:19:00] when you're looking at a restaurant, you know, whether the food is good or not, if there's two people rating it, the rating doesn't mean anything to me versus 4,000, some people.

[00:19:10] So in this case, because full scope's been around for a while, the rating to me, there's a little more credibility to it. Yeah. And, and, and then also with, as in anything, there's always gonna be somebody that hates it. Maybe people that really did have an adverse event. So I think where what you're seeing on, on RealSelf is, is pretty accurate for that machine.

[00:19:32] Austin: Okay. And Preto would be so proud the 80 20 guy. 80%. Love it. 20%. Don't it falls in line with the natural order of the universe with, uh, again, predis principle. Okay. So that's, uh, that's cool. Sculpting the product, the science and consumer reviews. Mina, what is your final thought on? Cool sculpting? 

[00:19:51] Mina: Well, my final thought is that it's a machine worth looking at, you know, I, I would, um, I personally don't have it also because [00:20:00] my practice does do in-office lipo.

[00:20:03] So, you know, I, I, I just can't have 15 machines. I would love to, um, I would consider that machine again, just know your fact, you know, I can't stress that enough and you'll, you'll hear me say it probably a hundred more times throughout the rest of the show. but you know, providers don't spend enough time to do it and physicians don't have time.

[00:20:23] I get it. Have somebody put, you know, assign that project to somebody, go through every single clinical study, ask questions. They're not going to give you their list of adverse event. They may or may not allow to, but ask, you know, were your adverse event done on, uh, color patients? How many were there?

[00:20:41] Those are information that they should be able to give you? Maybe not in a form of the actual study. I don't know. Every company has, you know, their own rules, but you've got to ask. You know, you gotta ask about adverse event and don't just ask the rep, cuz the rep will say, oh no, no, no, there's none really.

[00:20:59] Or you know, oh, there [00:21:00] was one, but you know, so and so just treated her differently, you know? So that's not really on us. Reps will tell you anything to sell a machine. And I think most of us know that. So, um, ask for data, not their words 

[00:21:15] Austin: as a salesperson, I would implore the audience that are dealing with salespeople to run for the Hills.

[00:21:23] When you interface with the rep that does not share something that is not in their best interest. Yes, absolutely. So you should. I agree with that, actually be sensitive to that. Okay. All right. So that's cool sculpting. Hey one down 12 to go. We are making great progress for 20 minutes in this. Maybe we'll pick up the pace here.

[00:21:40] Uh, in fact, let's try to do that here. So second product that we're going to look at our system is M sculpt. What can you tell us about M sculpt? What is it? What does it do? M scope 

[00:21:49] Mina: is great. It uses electric, uh, magnetic frequency to basically manually contract your muscle. So what they [00:22:00] love to tell people is, and I don't know the exact number, whether it was like 30,000 or 50,000 crunches in a matter of half hour.

[00:22:06] That's fantastic. I mean, and I've tried it myself. It works. I'm sore the next day. And even if somebody that has the time and the energy to go to the gym, it's not humanly possible to do the amount of crunches that the machine produces. Um, and this is why so many practices have it. However, there is a however to that machine mm-hmm and I did not have get that machine because I, I was swearing up and down when I opened my practice that I'm getting it.

[00:22:34] And the reason why is because I wanna be on that every day. But one thing I realized, and this is very similar to other companies that have similar machines, is that it. Does not lose. And, and I'll, I'll add a disclaimer to, to what I'm gonna say later. It does not make you lose fat. It works on your core muscle.

[00:22:56] Mm. So what does that mean? If someone that [00:23:00] has a layer of fat on their stomach and they go to M sculpt their abs. Yes, it works. And even if I were to take a biopsy of, you know, that muscle piece and, you know, whatever it is, it works, however, If that layer of fat is there, I'm not gonna see your six pack.

[00:23:19] And that's the problem with M sculpt and then for the people that are fit and have no fat on their stomach and just need that tightening, maybe post-birth or something. I don't know if they really need to pay three, $4,000 for a series of, you know, however cul how much people charge for MCO. It it's hefty, you know, of course, to some people, money may not be an issue then yes, by all means.

[00:23:44] But for the normal patient and my patient base are, I wouldn't say on the wealthier end, but not, you know, we're ho let me throw through thousand dollars at you. I mean, I would love that, but, um, They, they just won't do it. There's other things that's more [00:24:00] worth it for them to do than to do a series of MCO, which by the way, they need to maintain.

[00:24:04] Because if you go to the gym every day and you stop, you're gonna, you know, you're gonna get flabby, right. It's the same thing. It's, it's, it's not a permanent effect. You have to maintain it. And that's, what's also what they sell. The rep will tell you, you know, then you go sell their them a maintenance package.

[00:24:23] Um, so that's one thing. But however, I don't know if you know, there's a new M sculpt out there called M sculpt Neo. So the difference with that and, and friends of mine that actually has that in their office are very happy about it. But I mean, then again, it's like you pay $300,000 for that machine.

[00:24:40] You've got to be happy and just be enthusiastic in three, 

[00:24:43] Austin: $300,000. The 

[00:24:47] Mina: M scope, even the regular M scope is expensive. They price very high. And the reason why is because they spend a ton of money on marketing, celebrity endorsement, they have a mobile truck that [00:25:00] goes around the country. I mean, everybody knows what M is.

[00:25:03] There's a reason why it's because of marketing. Um, so you're paying for their marketing for them. You're paying for that video of, I don't even know who Jennifer Lopez, you know, saying that she got M sculpt before the, uh, super bowl. Uh, so you know, things like that anyways, um, the MCO Neo, they combine technology.

[00:25:27] So not only now, is it, uh, contracting your muscle? There is radio frequency involved where it kills the fat cells. So with what I said it does, actually, it may be something that works. I don't know how many sessions that would require. I don't know what the output energy of their radio frequency is because that does highly make a difference.

[00:25:49] Um, according to my friend, it does work. Um, so, so. They are making changes. Probably they recognize the problem is that it's not [00:26:00] targeting everybody. So it's not selling, uh, with the M sculpt because most people have fat on their stomach. Most people have fat on their arms, you know, there's, we all have fat right on top of the muscle.

[00:26:14] So in order to lose that, I mean, for anything to work, you gotta lose the, the fat first. 

[00:26:22] Austin: I'm looking at one of the BTL ICUL Neos from 2021 on one medical stop.com selling for $194,495. It is a rarely used device that is 200 grand. So, wow. Yeah. Not cheap, not cheap, but it sounds like it, there is some efficacy to it and it's probably a terrific product.

[00:26:46] If you have the deep pockets to, uh, to swallow that, that, uh, tablets say right. Okay. Huh? So the consumer reviews on this particular device, now this is for cul uh, [00:27:00] categorically, which includes the legacy device as well on RealSelf. It appears to give it a fair treatment, uh, 425, excuse me. Uh, 365 recent ratings put sculp at a worth it rating 83%.

[00:27:13] So edging out. Cool sculpting a bit. However, with about 4,000 less, uh, reviews, give or take a few hundred. So pretty high reviews on the less. 

[00:27:24] Mina: Okay. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's a great machine. It's a great machine. It works. I mean, like I said, uh, for providers, if they have the money to spend, it's a great addition, but if you're really trying to get something that is effective and that can target a lot of people, I would say that's not the machine to look at first because you're very, you're limiting yourself with the patients.

[00:27:46] Austin: Love it. Okay, cool. Well, I guess that was your final thought, unless there's any other final thought on M sculpts, that's it. Okay. Beautiful. All right. Trucking, along to sculpture. What is sculpture? What can you tell us about sculpture? [00:28:00] 

[00:28:00] Mina: So sculpture uses, uh, radio frequency as well to kill fat cells. And it is it also, they say it works on muscles, but I'm not sure if it does because the radio frequency doesn't do anything to muscles.

[00:28:22] And, um, a lot of devices out there use of radio frequency as well. Um, Different. They all claim that there was a different kind of RF technology that they're using, uh, you know, the heat, the depth of penetration with the heat, the width of penetration. So with radiofrequency in general, it is a, a not a targeted heating, it's a widespread heating.

[00:28:47] Mm. Um, the problem with radio frequency is that it's going to take lots and lots and lots of treatment for it to have some sort of result. [00:29:00] Now I don't have sculpture. So I don't know for sure from personal experience, but the fact that it's just radio frequency itself, it cannot be like home scope. Like don't expect it to be cold scope.

[00:29:11] And this is also a reason why it's not the price of cool scope. Um, it does take sessions and maybe it's, there's some practices, like that's fine with me because my patients are willing to do that. They have that commitment. They have that patience then. It's something to look at. The good part with radiofrequency is that it also works on the skin.

[00:29:32] Um, basically to be very honest with you and companies are going to hate me for saying this because there are so many devices out there that's for, uh, you know, tightening of the skin. And yes, there are some that are truly tightening, like meaning huge before dramatic, before and after photos. But those are the ones with kind of different technology.

[00:29:54] But any technology with heat will help tighten the skin. That's [00:30:00] it, it doesn't matter if it's RF. It doesn't matter if it's ultrasound. It doesn't even matter if it's an IPL treatment to get rid of marks. Whenever your skin is heated, your stim, your collagen is stimulated. So the whole point of skin tightening is boosting collagen.

[00:30:18] So any kind of device that has heat will do that now. What I, and this is why laser reps hate talking to me, because what I would say is, well, how is it different than all the other, you know, machines that will use heat to, to tighten the, the skin. And then they don't know what to tell me. You know, some, some will actually end up coming up with some sort of studies to show me, but that's not my point, you know, with, with the, uh, body contouring device.

[00:30:47] One thing I, I know, and this is E between devices and even lipo section as well, is that a lot of times when you lose fat, your skin gets saggy. You know, you're not gonna, maybe you do have a 23 year old patient, but most of the times, these are not 23 [00:31:00] year olds. They are 40 50 year olds patients. And with 40 50 year olds, there's not a lot of elasticity.

[00:31:06] There's not a lot of collagen in our skin. So one thing providers will need to know is that if you have a device such as, uh, the, uh, sculpture, if it works great, but you now will have to deal with the skin sagging problem. So RF does work on the skin to some extent, but not where, you know, like someone who has major skin sagging because they're older and their skin's CR creepy already.

[00:31:36] That's not gonna work on that. You're gonna need a different device for that. And it's just kind of like an FYI to, no, am I ready to deal with that?

[00:31:46] I see. 

[00:31:47] Austin: Okay. And I think I might have misspoke. I think I, I might have said true sculpt cuz true. Sculpt is the radio frequency device sculpture is a so I think that was my error. So we're talking, I'm sorry. So that's referring to radiofrequency [00:32:00] sculpture, which is a 10, 16 nanometer laser, um, uh, diode device.

[00:32:06] I think I says true sculpt and then I confuse myself, uh, which that is a radio frequency device. So apologies on my end. If I. If I said the wrong, or maybe I misheard no. Yeah. Well it's confusing S sculpt sculpture sculpt. Um, yeah, so that, that, so everything that Mina just said that was referring to radiofrequency devices, categorically.

[00:32:25] Right. So, and, and the, the chief of that castle, which is that the right expression? No, it's not. What would the expression be? Anyway? The, the, the pinnacle of radio frequency technologies is true scope, really that device you would say, or is there a different device for contouring that jumps to mind for radio frequency and that mechanism of action?

[00:32:46] Um, 

[00:32:47] Mina: I would say the accent prime by OMA. Ah, okay. Uh, it is an RF device as well. However, the reason why I have seen better results with accent prime [00:33:00] is because it combines radiofrequency with ultra. Oh, so in, remember I told you a lot of times the devices that were weren't checking off the list and I'm telling you which ones are the better ones.

[00:33:14] All the better ones are usually the ones that have some sort of combined devices, because what happens with ultrasound? So, like I said, with, uh, radio frequency, it's a widespread heating with ultrasound. It's a targeted heating. So now you are heating up the fat cells from different facets, different angles.

[00:33:35] You're approaching it from almost a three dimensional, uh, way to kill the fat cells, whereas radio frequency. Yes, it works. And if you look at any studies, non spice, uh, device specific that has to do with, uh, killing of the fat cells with RF, it works. But again, you know, every device has different energy output.[00:34:00] 

[00:34:00] Every device says that they do this and that, but it can only work to a certain extent, but the prime does, you know, combine both, um, the patients know no different it's, doesn't, it's not like it's two steps or anything like that. Um, but so I have seen better results, but again, it's something that does need multiple treatments.

[00:34:24] Yeah. 

[00:34:24] Austin: Okay. Huh. So the, the two devices and that jump to mind for radiofrequency categorically with that mechanism of action are so true sculpt. And then you're saying accent prime, which is actually a better product and radiofrequency domain. Um, those are the two that jump to mind. And interestingly, it looks like per real self, uh, true sculpt C in one of their clinical studies, a 24% reduction of fat thickness from a single true sculpt ID treatment measured by ultrasound.

[00:34:57] Whereas accent prime let's see what their data [00:35:00] is. D D D D uh, where is their data? It's not visible right here or interesting. Okay. Well, it's not readily visible on their real cell and it's not that new 

[00:35:12] Mina: of a device. There should be some sort of. 

[00:35:15] Austin: Something much. Yeah, I'm sure I could find I was expecting it to be on real self it's not though.

[00:35:20] Well, what is interesting? Speaking of getting into the consumer reviews, um, accent primes, uh, reviews or real self rating. Wow. Uh, 102 reviews, a 55%. Hmm. Were worth it rating. Interesting. Wow. That seems very 

[00:35:41] Mina: low. That seems, you know, to be honest, it seems low to me, but at the same time, I'm not surprised with these radio frequency ultrasound, you know, EMS.

[00:35:56] The problem is it takes time. And I, I mean, I've experienced this [00:36:00] myself with my patients where, you know, I tell them a hundred times I have them sign a paper that says this does require multiple treatment, you know, with one other device, I have, I only sell them by packages because there's no, there's absolutely no reason to tell somebody to come into one for one time, cuz I will never get that patient back.

[00:36:20] Right. And still even with before and after picture, or even though I did see a little bit of improvement after one session, she comes in and she's like, this is not working. I don't want this. And I'm looking at her, like I told you this, like I, this is, this is a 10 treatment process. Um, and the other problem with these is that sometimes there's user issues, you know, mm-hmm , if it's not done correctly and unlike whole scope where it is a stationary, uh, applicator, a lot of the RF.

[00:36:55] It's manual. It's kind of like, um, it's, it's like a massage [00:37:00] almost. It's a manual. Um, what's the word, the manual execution, right. It's execution. And so if maybe the user's not trained properly on it, you know, the heat's not penetrating. If you're moving, I'm not sure if you're supposed to move or not move, but whatever it is that you are not doing properly, the heat doesn't get down there because there's so many layers to get before you get to the fat.

[00:37:26] And not only do you, like I said, not only does the technology has to get to the fat, it has to get there to kill it. So the outcome does vary depending on user usage as well. Um, and I think a lot of these reviews do come lower because of end user error on the provider's end. And also sometimes just patients being.

[00:37:49] Whatever, you know, like I did it three times and it's not working even though they're supposed to do 10 times. 

[00:37:55] Austin: Gotcha. Okay. So that's probably an unfair rating then for accident prime, right. [00:38:00] Um, given that it's a better product than true sculpt ID in your eyes, right. Um, which has a, it has no rating. why crossline.

[00:38:11] No, that cannot be okay. Here it is here. It's 70. Okay. 71% worth it rating for true sculpt ID, but with only 55 reviews, whereas acts and prime has a hu so double with a 55% rating. So it, it looks like it's not, I mean, the categorically rated frequency doesn't appear to be, um, a mechanism of action that is.

[00:38:35] Really on par with something like a cold temperature based modality, maybe even heat based modality, like a sculpture, which is going to utilize the dial laser technology, the 10, 16 nanometer, um, approach mm-hmm , which they're seeing a 24% reduction of fat cells in, or up to that in one, uh, in one session per this particular study that I'm looking at here.

[00:38:56] So, um, so what would you say then in, in terms of your [00:39:00] final thought on accent prime and true sculpt as far as go, no, go consider, maybe don't consider, uh, I 

[00:39:10] Mina: would say if you're a practice that is very limited on budget and you don't have a lot of machines already, you know, you're kind of getting the modality, that's really going to work to get the patient in a door.

[00:39:20] I would say. None of that. Don't get anything, radio frequency, as much as the fact that I actually do really like the axon prime, it's an auxiliary machine. You know, it's one that you can offer to patients that don't wanna get your cool scope or that don't wanna get your liposuction. Um, and again, everybody has different patient base.

[00:39:43] So if you know, your patients will listen to you and will understand that this takes time, then by all means something like the axon prime is a fantastic machine because without opening your body, that's as close as you can get to, you know, something working over [00:40:00] time. Um, the other thing of, uh, caution is that with radiofrequency, and this is also with, you know, whatever we talk about later with ultrasound and even the laser dial, unlike liposuction, the fat's not taken out it's SEL death.

[00:40:15] However, If a cell is sort of, kind of dying and not yet dead. And the patient goes and has a milkshake after her accent prime treatment, the cell may very much be revived. So. It's there there's so much clinicals to cell death itself that we're not informed about by the laser companies. And to be honest with you, the laser companies might not even know.

[00:40:46] I mean, maybe the scientists behind it will, but not, you know, there's so many levels to a laser company and, you know, just by selling the fact that this is cell death, Makes people think it's lipo without lipo. [00:41:00] And also that, you know, you just have to set that expectation and understand that these are the problems that you're gonna come.

[00:41:06] You you're gonna come across with this machine. And, and although these may be minor problems, but for me, who is, you know, also an owner of a practice business is everything. You know, you want patient retention, you wanna return patient and you want that word of mouth too. So this is why accent prime, for example, it's a great machine.

[00:41:27] I don't advise not, you know, to not get it. I, you can buy all means. I, I think it's, it's a fantastic piece to have as an addition, but you just have to understand that those may be the possibility you really, really have to get somebody trained to use it. Um, in addition that you might need additional modalities to support it.

[00:41:48] Austin: Is it fair to say then that the more expensive the devices, the more. Aware you wanna be of two things. One is where this product stacks in your portfolio, meaning is it gonna be your [00:42:00] primary workhorse for contouring? If so, because it's operator dependent, it seems in some sense you probably are better off having a device.

[00:42:09] If you're speaking, there's, uh, spending big dollars, probably better off getting a device where the applicator is stationary. Like a cool sculpting. If it's an expensive device, again, something over a hundred K six figures and beyond. Um, and secondly, you also want to consider, I guess I just alluded to this.

[00:42:27] If it is going to be your primary workhorse, maybe you don't want to have something that's, uh, Technician or operator contingent in terms of the outcomes, something like that. Okay. Now that's obviously, well, go ahead. Sorry please. No, no, no. 

[00:42:43] Mina: Yeah. I, I was actually going to just agree with everything you said.

[00:42:47] Um, the only thing is what, instead of looking at pricing and, and if you are somebody that is familiar with device companies, um, you will know that there are different tiers there's companies, the top tier companies like OMA [00:43:00] qera electronic, and then there was the lower tier company, but still very, very good machine.

[00:43:05] Like, um, is it Venus? Yes. The Venus. Uh, company and then there's, you know, ones that are under, even lower than that. And then there's one, those China made ones that we're gonna talk about lots later. Mm-hmm um, so I would say when assessing a device for body contouring, especially body contouring, because the expectation is so much in a patient when it comes to body contouring, um, you want something, there is good technology behind it, not just, and when I say technology, I don't mean, oh, just let me see.

[00:43:34] Oh, are you RF? Okay. That's great. Not just that it's whatever. And like I said, every company has a different technology, just like laser for the face I could use. I P for, you know, from OMA, the harmony from OMA and somebody else has an IPL from another company. They're both exact same Waveland, but they are different technology.

[00:43:55] It could be the light itself. It could be the hand piece. That makes a huge [00:44:00] difference. So for me, buying from a top tier company, because it's such a large investment is such a high expectation from your patient. You want something where they really put in the research on putting the thing together and not just here's a machine and we made it RF.

[00:44:18] Like that's not gonna cut it, not in this day and age and not in competing with the doctor's office next door. Um, so for something like this, yes. Uh, and, and then when it comes to pricing, they're all the. And it doesn't mean anything. Again, I'm gonna get death threats from laser companies. what they list is literally does not mean anything.

[00:44:41] They'll tell you, this machine is 150,000. This machine's 175. The negotiation process is what's gonna determine how much your machine is. And when I say negotiation, I don't mean just $10,000 off and there I'll try all these fancy tricks to play with you. You know what, uh, actually, it's so funny the other day, uh, I was looking [00:45:00] for a facial machine for my new location and this, this like a HFA kind of machine.

[00:45:04] And this rep has this really cool new one. And I'm like, oh, but I, you, I'm missing an oxygen scaling, uh, gun, you know, with your machine, I'm gonna have to buy it. And he goes, you know what? You buy the machine, I'll throw it in for you. And I'm looking at him. I'm like, it's a $300 thing. It's fine. You can just discount it more.

[00:45:22] You know, like they'll, they'll do fancy things to sound like. I'll throw in this for you. It's the same pot of money. it's, there's lots of room for negotiation. You just have to know 

[00:45:32] Austin: how you said all devices are the same price 

[00:45:37] Mina: in that tier. Okay. In that top tier. So, you know, you're buying a fat countering device from electronic versus a fat countering device in, at OMA.

[00:45:47] It's going to be very similar in pricing. Mm. But if you go to the middle tier your company, like Venus, it's going to be cheaper. However, that middle tier of companies do have very good devices. [00:46:00] I would trust them anything below that. Um, mm. You know, I, I question and you, and at the end of the day, I'm not an expert.

[00:46:08] I'm not the scientist, I'm an engineer of devices. So. I question because I don't know everything and they also don't tell me everything. So I, I tend to stay away from those, that tier of machines. Um, and a lot of those people are also not machine makers. They are not, you know, like Alma makes their own devices.

[00:46:28] Eltron makes their own devices. That tier are usually distributors where they bring in machines from overseas to sell. 

[00:46:37] Austin: Got it. Got it. Cool. Well, um, let's move along. We're 46 minutes in and we are 40 . There are eight more to go. We'll get through this. We will get through this. Okay. Let's talk sculpture briefly.

[00:46:54] Now, everything again, just to reiterate, uh, audience members. I made a mistake, I believe in saying [00:47:00] true sculpt set, misled Mita. That was all radio frequency talk. Now we're gonna talk sculpture talk, which is the laser laser. 

[00:47:07] Mina: Yep. Yep. So, uh, when it comes to, to that, I, I think of mission impossible, you know, with the laser guns, basically.

[00:47:14] That's what it is, you know, they're utilizing the light of the laser to kill the, the fat cell. Um, it's all about killing the fat cell. I mean, that's the only way you can perch fat cell is if it's dead. Right. Um, so. To be very honest with you. I have never had any experience with it. I've never even looked at the machine.

[00:47:33] I have not looked at their studies. However, to me, when I, when I hear laser it's very effective. , you know, just the technology of laser alone, the science of laser alone is effective. Whereas there's some out there and I'll touch on one later, that is with some other sort of light technology where I'm just like, how could that kill anything?

[00:47:56] Um, so, you know, and back to, you know, [00:48:00] when we're talking about radiofrequency, yes, it works. But to a certain extent and radiofrequency just can't penetrate so far, laser can, you know, just, if you think about laser for the face, you have lasers that are non ablative and you have one that are ablative to the point that your skin gets ripped off.

[00:48:16] So lasers are very, very powerful and it can kill fat cells. I have no doubt about that. However, the one thing I don't know about sculpture is in terms of the usage, you know, how is it? Is it very much user dependent or if it's not, I do understand that they have little paths, I think. 

[00:48:34] Austin: Is it, is it, uh, sculpture?

[00:48:36] Yes. Yeah. They're stationary that I can see. So. So 

[00:48:39] Mina: then, you know, I, I feel a little better that it's not dependent on the person that is maneuvering the, the pan piece around, um, unless they have. Very light wave light wave light wave length, wave wavelength. Oh my God. I'm getting tongue tied. [00:49:00] 

[00:49:00] Austin: um, it is Friday.

[00:49:01] It is cocktail 30 somewhere. 

[00:49:03] Mina: Yeah. And it's mercury and retrograde. I heard that's what my patient told me today. So, um, you know, unless the technology is just not strong enough, there's no reason why they're not killing the cell app, the, the fat cells. So, and, and I know that sculpture is a pretty well used machine.

[00:49:23] I'm actually interested in hear in hearing what real self has on there as their score. 

[00:49:28] Austin: Sure. Well, so quick couple notes here on the clinical studies, uh, from, uh, uh, this particular site, it does not have a link to the clinical study from what I'm seeing here. Uh, oh, no, it does here at the very, very bottom.

[00:49:41] Okay. So there is a citation. So this is, uh, believable, given that from what I can see. So the outcomes of a 25 minute procedure is that sculpture CA can destroy up to 24% of the treated fat cells with no downtime. And, uh, let's see here. What [00:50:00] else, what else? What else? Over 90% patient satisfaction rate from this particular study and their real self rating, which just actually shocked me is only 68% based on nearly 900 reviews.

[00:50:14] Mina: Wow. Okay. Okay. Well, sculpture from what I understand and I could be wrong, I do believe it's a, it's a older technology. It's an older machine. I don't know when it came out, but if it's an older machine, I, I wanna say in the last five years, body lasers have evolved significantly. Mm. In terms of technology, because people are realizing what a huge market share it could be.

[00:50:44] And it's a high yield product, you know, you're not charging just $600 for something. And at the same time, a lot of them don't work or it takes forever to work. So therefore you don't have the patient for it. So in the last five years, it's [00:51:00] really, really, truly evolved so much to now something looking robotic looking.

[00:51:06] Um, but I believe sculpture is one of the. Earlier machines. I comment came out. I wanna say I'm not sure. Um, so, you know, maybe the lasers are not strong enough and at the same time, again, going back to the fact that, you know, you're, you're still pan, you have to penetrate, so they can't get anything too strong or else you they'll burn.

[00:51:26] You they'll op they'll open your skin right up. I mean, people use lasers for surgeries to, you know, to cut open nowadays. They don't use scaffolds anymore. So lasers are very strong and I'm assuming if it's an older technology, they can't make it that strong. And therefore the patient probably needs many, many sessions or maybe the technology itself just doesn't penetrate deep enough.

[00:51:48] These are the questions I would ask the rep to prove in form of clinical data. Um, you know, if anyone's assessing that machine, but I, I, you know, in general, I just have to say [00:52:00] that there are so many new machines in the last five years. I wouldn't look at anything older than that. Hmm. 

[00:52:07] Austin: Yeah, I'm looking at YouTube videos on sculpture reviews that are five years, looks like the oldest is five years.

[00:52:16] Mm-hmm um, so it's yeah, it's at least a five year old technology, right based one I'm seeing here. I can't find the, um, there's no Wikipedia page on it or anything of the sort, but certainly not a brand new technology. And, um, Yeah, again, that that review rating is very bizarre. It seems like you'd be higher than that.

[00:52:32] And according to their clinical study, their patient satisfaction rate was 90 plus percent. So mm-hmm um, it seems like it is a device that does have the science defense, the mm-hmm . Um, and well, the outcomes indicate that the, uh, it, it does work. There is a fat reduction of the, um, adipose issue, which is great.

[00:52:52] Probably a bit dated and probably with that a bit pricey given the fact that it is dated and what's your final thought on sculpture? [00:53:00] 

[00:53:00] Mina: I would say that, um, unless you have an amazing deal, it's a machine to, then you can get that machine. But you know, like I said, I, I would just, I wouldn't look at anything older than five years in terms of their technology and, and I don't know, sculptures company that makes it, or, you know, like, I don't know anything about them.

[00:53:20] Maybe they they'll tell you this is actually generation three and it's modified two years ago. That may be the case. But again, I would ask for data just so you have an apples to apples comparison because that is, what's all that's going to make the, all the difference in terms of your patient results.

[00:53:37] Austin: Got it. Okay, cool. Cool. Cool. All right. So we will leave sculpture at that. And now we're gonna get into Venus freeze, Venus legacy and VTL. Let's start with Venus freeze. Now these are skin tightening devices. Mm-hmm um, and that is obviously, I mean, it's still within the umbrella, underneath the umbrella of body contouring, [00:54:00] which is part of contouring.

[00:54:01] Um, so Venus free. The one thing I do wanna ask you about before we, we start speaking to that, and this is actually more of an Elix thing. Um, and, uh, but I think this is predominantly, well, this is for radio frequency device that are, uh, monopolar radio devices in particular. There's one study that I'm looking at here from.

[00:54:22] Uh, again, 2014. So this is, this is quite dated, but the title of this is a focused monopolar, radiofrequency causes apoptosis, a poor sign model. Now, the thing that I want to ask you about is with the methods. So the second sentence here, it says that the study was done on three Vietnamese pigs.

[00:54:47] in a certified veterinary. Facilities. So I, I'm not trying to be smart ass here. I'm paying, but yeah, like, is, is that the kind of thing that when you see that you just are immediately [00:55:00] tempted to throw the study out? Yes. That's not human clinical. Okay. Okay. 

[00:55:04] Mina: Yeah, because the anatomy is so different. It's, I mean, the anatomy, the, the, the DMO anatomy for patient to patient is different.

[00:55:14] You know, someone who is a skin type six who's African American is very different from somebody who is a skin type one who's Irish. So imagine a pig, like, and also my question is why this is not drugs. This is not plastic surgery. I mean, it's a device study. Why would they use PS? Like that's, that's very questionable.

[00:55:37] It's a little, um, shady for lack of better word to 

[00:55:40] Austin: me. Got it. So another one of those things that you should be looking for in your clinical studies that you're researching human studies on your devices stay human. Okay. Fair enough. Got it. All right. Moving on. so on the Venus freeze, uh, what is Venus freeze and what should we know about it?

[00:55:58] Mina: So what the Venus freeze, it [00:56:00] actually is a combined technology machine. From what I understand, um, it utilizes there's actually radio frequency, I believe in there, um, to heat the matrix of, of the, the skin and produce collagen. Um, and at the same time, it also has a little bit of, I believe EMS technology.

[00:56:24] Oh no. It's pulse magnetic. Yes. Yeah. The em technology in there. Um, so I think in short, the Fe freeze is a very old version of. The, uh, Elms called new. I don't know if it works the same. It does not work the same because EMS can, can work in ways of like truly strongly contouring, you know, the contracting, the muscles, or it could, um, there's one, that's funny because we were all talking about, and basically it jiggles the itself to death.

[00:56:59] So, and [00:57:00] I believe this might be one of them. Um, I don't know how juggling the cells to death will really make it die. why did 

[00:57:11] Austin: the shake weight come to volume by the way? Do you remember the, do you remember the shake weight? Um, little contraption from ages ago? Do you remember that thing? Oh my God. The 1980s.

[00:57:21] Yes. My mom had had two of them and nothing is more traumatizing than coming down from school in junior high, senior mom doing. VHS shake, weight training video would do shake. It was quite astounding. My God. Anyway, I don't know why the JY thing reminds me of that. That may, 

[00:57:38] Mina: that may be the generation. Very, very reverse 

[00:57:41] Austin: generation.

[00:57:42] yeah. Yeah, it was so good. It made it, it made its way into a full south park episode. shout out to Matt and Trey anyway, back to you. I, uh, don't mean to hijack. 

[00:57:51] Mina: No, no, no. Um, so I, again, unfortunately, I don't have personal experience with the Venus freeze. I've heard good and bad about it. [00:58:00] I think, you know what it is just from looking at the technology and I have it pulled up here.

[00:58:04] Um, it's, it's one of those that that's a hit or miss. You know, it's the technology, the idea is there for the technology. Yeah. And they, or may not work from for some people. I mean, I'm surprised that the radio frequency, you know, like what they're advertising is the radio frequency is to, uh, tighten the skin by producing collagen, which we know.

[00:58:31] And we talked about that, but, you know, RA radio frequency actually does kill fat, but it doesn't advertise that. So to me, what I'm thinking is that there's so little radio frequency or the output is so light that it doesn't even reach the fat. Um, and they're just, it's a marketing kind of thing. Ah, but it sounds, but for someone that doesn't UN truly understand laser medicine, It sounds [00:59:00] great.

[00:59:00] You know, don't buy machine a, that's just EMS. Ours is EMS with radio frequency, the rest they don't need to understand. And nobody does really truly understand, you know, what radio frequency does, where it hits. So, you know, it it's because this is one of the older devices. First of all, we know already the technology is not as on par as the ones that came out the last few years.

[00:59:25] Mm. So that's number one. Number two, I feel like because they even know themselves that the output's just not strong enough. Um, so they're not even advertising that as for fat cell it's, uh, you know, the, there F alone, they keep saying that it stimulates collagen. So as in any fat loss, like I said, tightening the skin is important.

[00:59:46] Having that piece of, of, uh, feature is good, but, you know, it's just about the actual efficacy of it and it doesn't look too good to me. Um, If, well, this world only has three kinds of [01:00:00] machine. I will get this one. I otherwise, I mean, with how saturated it is with newer body conting machines, this is just not one that, you know, needed to be purchased.

[01:00:12] Austin: Yeah. 75% worth it rating with only a hundred reviews after it's been around for quite a while. So, uh, this sounds like in the eyes of Mina, this is probably one to stay away from. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, moving on to Venus legacy, Venus legacy, and we'll, we'll go a bit more rapid fire through the skin tightening, uh, devices, cuz they're probably not as interesting as the Contin for fat reduction type devices.

[01:00:35] So Venus legacy though. Um, I will read the, the quick bio here from real cell for sake of time. So we could, uh, get an idea of what the heck it is. So Venus legacy is FDA cleared to treat moderate to severe facial wrinkles for people with. Fits Patrick's skin types, one through, uh, four pale to light brown skin and to temporarily reduce the appearance of [01:01:00] cellulite.

[01:01:00] So this appears to be, if I'm not mistaken, mean this is specifically for facials 

[01:01:05] Mina: it's for facials. Um, I mean, what I'd like to do is any of my machines that I could use on face I use on body as well, obviously, not for thought, but, you know, because there are so many people that have either crepey skin or just aging skin in general.

[01:01:18] I mean, we, it's not just our face that ages. Right. And nowadays, you know, people still wanna be in their bikinis and whatnot. So, um, it's a facial machine, but I believe you could use it on the body as well. I do know the legacy Venus in general, like I said, is one of those mid-tier companies. Um, so their pricing are very well.

[01:01:39] Especially when you're looking at a machine from Alma and then you look at you get price shocked. You know, when you look at Venus because it's so much more inexpensive, um, they use a lot of RF technology. So the legacy is an RF. Um, RF does work war for skin tightening. However, RF in general is not [01:02:00] going to be, I don't wanna say the word strong, but it's just, it it's, you know what I use RF for?

[01:02:08] Let me tell you, I use RF when my aesthetician performs facial, just to kind of have that little bit of lifting, you know, it's not a, a standalone technology and, and this company will completely dispute me for even seeing anything like that. But. It's real. It shouldn't be used as a standalone treatment.

[01:02:29] You know, when you have a patient coming in saying, Hey, I'm 55, I'm starting to get saggy skin and fine lines. Um, what can you do about it? I don't want injectables. It shouldn't be just an RF. And regardless whether it's a legacy or not, there are machines that are using ultrasound technology that is much stronger in terms of deep dermal heating, um, or a combine of RF and ultrasound, which thus proven to have worked [01:03:00] very, very well.

[01:03:01] Uh, I just don't think RF is, is, is good enough. And, and all also RF is it's a spread heat, you know, it's not targeted. So how are you controlling that? It's great. When you know, my patients are doing facial and in the middle of it, one of my protocol is to use an RF just for that lifting effect. And also RF what's really good for is pushing products in the.

[01:03:25] Mm. So it it's, I'm iffy when it comes to radiofrequency. Now this is different. I just want to, you know, people to understand what I'm saying. It's different when it comes to RF microneedling, that's different. You're breaking the skin. We're talking about nothing that breaks the skin right now. 

[01:03:43] Austin: Okay. All right.

[01:03:45] So this is another one that we probably want to maybe think twice about adding. Mm. 

[01:03:51] Mina: Yeah. I mean, it's it's unless you have lots of money mm-hmm and you don't care and you already have 15 [01:04:00] machines. You just wanna add another one for the fun of it. It's great. 

[01:04:05] Austin: Got it. Okay. Let's do a brief touch on BTL. Um, I'm actually going to, I know I promised we're gonna talk BTL and Alexis ultra let's do a quick touch on both of those just high, high level.

[01:04:18] Um, and in fact, why don't we do this for BTL and Alexis ultra? Let's just do a mean thought on both those devices. Then we'll spend the rest of our time on vanquish eon red eye therapy, and then in capitation devices, just for sake of time here. So the BTL skin tightening device, what is Mina's final thought on the BTL?

[01:04:39] Uh, the 

[01:04:40] Mina: BTL we're talking about vanquish. 

[01:04:42] Austin: Um, am I do? Yes. Oh, wait a minute. I'm wrong. It is not a skin tightening device. Oh my gosh. That's embarrassing BTL banquet. So, so hold on, hold on. That I, I lied bad notes on my end. Um, Alexis ultra that I [01:05:00] believe is a skin tightening device, unless I again have gone original.

[01:05:06] Yes it is. So is a noninvasive skin tightening treatment design to smooth wrinkles and address skin laxity in areas like the face gels, neck, abdomen, arms and thighs. And it's a it's oh, it's another combiner combines ultrasound and RF to yet again, to stimulate new collagen production, which any sort of heat energy will do.

[01:05:28] Mina: Yep. Exactly. Uh, any kinda heat energy will do. I mean, I, I guess that's like the broad term of it, right. Um, there. Combined actually will work better than an RF alone, because like I said, one's targeted and one's is spread, you know, overall heating. So now you're now you're targeting the cellular matrix of the skin, not fat.

[01:05:52] So the cellular matrix lies above the fat layer. So you don't have to heat so deep. Um, [01:06:00] it works. Number one, it does work. However there's maintenance to it. Unlike ultrasound, uh, or the actual term is HIFU. But unlike that. You do need multiple treatment, you know, like with the other, other technology, which we'll, I guess we'll talk about later one treatment a year or one treatment every other year is enough.

[01:06:25] Whereas this there's a time commitment, you know, like you really have to keep up at it. Um, and I, again, with this machine, I'm not familiar with their energy output. I don't think it's too. Strong. Uh, I mean, and there's a setting, of course, you know, and we never, generally, the protocol is you never start off high anyway, but because of that, you sometimes you do need to start off with twice a week or, you know, once a week at the very least.

[01:06:54] So for something like that, so it does work, but it takes a time commitment. And also obviously for, you [01:07:00] do have to think of the patient, if your patients are willing to pay for 10 treatment sessions. And even though this is not expensive, but at the end of the day, it's still a 10 treatment session, no matter how much you're charging.

[01:07:11] So that's something you do truly have to, to keep into consideration. I don't care what the, the reps are telling you. Oh, you're good. After four, there's always gonna be somebody that needs more than four and generally they do need more than four. They try to downplay it so that it sounds like an easy sell for you.

[01:07:28] Mm. 

[01:07:30] Austin: Okay. All right. So mean's final thought. Onix ultra or the newest Elix ultra, which is Alexis ultra 360 again, combining ultrasound or radiofrequency energy to stimulate new collagen production. 

[01:07:45] Mina: Um, I, I mean, I think it's, it's a machine worth looking at, but you do need to just, you know, find out all the, the SI things to it and get the clinical data on, on efficacy.

[01:07:56] And, you know, one thing to ask also is the one, the clinical studies are [01:08:00] done. It should tell you, it will tell you how many treatments it was done based off of. Mm. So then you kind of get a gauge. 

[01:08:09] Austin: Got it. Okay. Fair enough. Well, blitzing over to vanquish. We are so close. We've got, let's see, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 1, 2.

[01:08:18] We're. So go through the most knowledge per. In the aesthetics content universe. All right. BTL vanquish. Here we go. So the vanquish has a 64. I'm gonna start conflating all these bits here. Just give it all out at once to orient the, uh, listeners. And then we'll get your feedback again for sake of time here.

[01:08:39] So the vanquish has a 64% worth it rating on RealSelf with, uh, about 200, well, 233 reviews. It is, uh, let's see, it's a non-surgical body Contra treatment. That's FDA cleared for fat reduction on the abdomen and thighs. It uses radiofrequency, uh, triggering [01:09:00] apoptosis. And anything else to note on the description here?

[01:09:03] No, it is not. Oh, it is here we go. Per Dr. Maloney. It is the first aesthetic RF technology to emit an electromagnetic field over a large treatment area, which allows for the safe delivery of RF energy over the entire. Midsection. So it's contact free and that it seems is the big selling point of this particular product.

[01:09:25] What are Mina's thoughts on the vanquish? Mina 

[01:09:28] Mina: has a lot of thoughts on the vanquish Hey, let's go contact free. Yes, because, uh, and I don't know if you know what I'm talking about Austin, but like sometimes when people get facials and they get light therapy and they're laying down and there's this like half moon shape mm-hmm red light or blue light on top of that's literally how the machine looks.

[01:09:48] Um, so is contact free. But I, I honestly don't like, what difference does it make? You know, it's, to me the contact free thing. Doesn't, it's, it's not COVID [01:10:00] right now. Right? OK. Um, they are very old vanquish me, one of the very first non, uh, invasive body conting machines. And. It is actually a machine I believe and correct me if I'm wrong.

[01:10:16] It's by BTL, right? Yes. Okay. But it's not made by BTL. So BTL, I don't know if you know anything about them, especially way back in the day. They like to buy other people's machine and put their own branding on them. Oh, so in fact, oh my gosh. In fact, they had made two years ago a machine that is supposed to compete with cool sculpt and I forget what it's called.

[01:10:44] And they were really like hardcore pushing it. It's not their machine. It's another machine that they brought in from Korea that they branded themselves. I don't remember what it's called. Um, clearly it was a major failure think, which is [01:11:00] another machine. Is one of the biggest failure in noninvasive body contouring.

[01:11:06] I don't care what they tell me with their technology. The thing is because it is one of the earliest machines made the technology is so poor that even without contact and yeah, it better be no contact because it makes you so hot that it's unbearable. And when I say hot, I don't mean like, you know, in a sauna blanket kind of hot.

[01:11:28] I have a very high pain tolerance and I love the heat. I did a demo and within three minutes and I was so excited by the way, because I, here I am, I'm like, I'm getting a free fat loss treatment. I can't wait five minutes. And I really, really try to hold it out five minutes. I'm like, you gotta get this off of me.

[01:11:48] It was so hot. I felt like my skin was going to turn into flames. And then of course the rep didn't know what to say and they wanna, you know, downplay it to make it look like it's not [01:12:00] normal. They're like, oh, you must be so dehydrated. It, it was the worst machine. And now if you talk to any providers that know about this machine, they will say the same thing.

[01:12:10] You know, maybe they didn't have the same experience that were, they felt like they were burning, but it is not comfortable. It's definitely not a comfortable machine. Wow. And if you think about it and it's no contact, and here we are talking about how deep these heat needs to be. I mean, it must be like an oven, you know, kind of tech like bulb or whatever they use it.

[01:12:33] That's why it was so hot. 

[01:12:36] Austin: Interesting. This is the first device I've seen as one of the cons on RealSelf it says small areas of fat necrosis. Which feel like hard bumps on, on the skin can develop though. They usually resolve over time. Thank God with the help of massage. But I, I haven't ever come across a device or read about a device that produces in some cases, necrotic, um, well sort 

[01:12:57] Mina: important and it's very [01:13:00] unusual in a device like that.

[01:13:03] Wow. 

[01:13:03] Austin: Okay. Well that explains why it has a 64% worth it. Rating is probably cuz it's so damn hot. Can't bear it. Yeah. So I'm going to assume that that is probably not a device that Mina would say yes. Oh my God. Call you up today and buy it right now. okay. 

[01:13:19] Mina: Sell it. I actually don't even know if they still sell it nowadays to practices.

[01:13:24] I mean they're circulating around I'm sure. But yeah, don't, don't get that machine even if you're looking to get it like secondhand, because I'm sure there's lots of those on the market. It's there's just other better ones. 

[01:13:37] Austin: Fair enough. Fair enough. Fair enough. Okay. Well, we're gonna scoot along. So now we will look at.

[01:13:44] The eon eon, eon, eon, and eon. I'll give you the quick setup here, uh, is evidently it's maybe the best machine in history. Uh, as far as I can see on worth it ratings, uh, with a [01:14:00] 97% worth it rating. Now, admittedly, very small sample size of just 47 reviews. Um, and those reviews who knows how well let's assume that they're accurate and, and treatable , but eon is an FDA cleared non-surgical laser body sculpting treatment that is, uh, described by its manufacturer.

[01:14:19] So take it with the grain of salt it's coming from their manufacturer, but it's described as a smart body contour or contouring unit that uses an automated robotic arm with smart sensor technology to scan the body and create a customized treatment plan for fat reduction on the abdomen. Flanks. And it's touchless and it uses, oh, interesting.

[01:14:40] It uses a 10 64 nanometer wavelength laser to deliver the thermal energy into the adipose tissue, triggering apoptosis, da. And the claim is that an air cooling system and temperature monitoring, uh, protocol, procedure deal [01:15:00] thing ensures that the skin surface never rises above 39.5 degrees to maintain patient comfort.

[01:15:08] Sounds like a hell of a claim. Yeah. 

[01:15:11] Mina: Um, okay. So first of all, it's very new. It's very, very new technology. Um, and it's very futuristic. If every, anyone actually goes to search for a picture, it's, it's not like the device you and I know of and think about it's literally has like an arm where it hangs down from the ceiling and that's, what's scanning your body.

[01:15:34] So it, it looks very cool. It's like your social media will explode if you put that on there. Um, it's so new that I don't know much about it. I mean, I understand it's using laser technology. I'm not understanding, and I'm sure there's an answer to all of this, but you know, how does it scan your body? Does it, you know, does it sense your BMI or, you know, like what's the standard, does [01:16:00] it use the same standard scanning on you versus scanning on me in order to quote unquote customize treatment?

[01:16:05] So that those are like the question, and I guess maybe this is what new technology is, you know, is it's these cool things that. I wouldn't understand in my head that they've come up with a solution for, you know, um, and, and, you know, having seen the device, actually, I, I don't know where the cooling technology comes from, but understanding that it's using laser and it's contact free, not only is it contact free.

[01:16:30] If you look at a picture it's pretty high app, it's not like the vanquish where it's like right above you. Um, there's got to be major, major heating. Like mm-hmm, , it must be really, really hot. And so a cooling mechanism has to be built into that somehow. Um, but I just don't know how it works because it needs the heat to penetrate first, before the cooling kicks.

[01:16:59] [01:17:00] Right. Okay. And being that it's no contact, the cooling is not in the hand piece, usually when it comes to laser once, when there's a cooling mechanism in a, in, in the technology it's in the hand piece itself. Um, so I, you know, it there's a lot of question, but that doesn't mean. It's bad or anything. I'm, I'm just literally thinking out loud when it comes to this machine.

[01:17:22] Uh, and again, because you know, technology in the medical world evolves so quickly that I'm not surprised, you know, something, if this is effective, then this is the coolest and best machine anyone should be getting . I should be looking into that. 

[01:17:37] Austin: you might, yeah. I'm looking at their, their clinicals now. So their clinical overview here suggests or shows according to a 2019 study done by, uh, looks like, uh, Dr.

[01:17:49] Fala at Fala aesthetics Orlando. So after a single treatment ultrasound, average of fat reduction was 21.6%. Now what's interesting is a contrast, not to pitch [01:18:00] cryo skin here, but I'm going to do do that anyway, is that our study was right around that same percentage for. Presume it'll be a lot less than this device, which I'm guessing with their treatment prices that they list on their website of three to $4,000 per treatment.

[01:18:13] That's what eon is published on their website per eon treatment to get roughly the similar or a similar outcome is pretty astounding. Um, and actually, so they have, let's see, next data point here, bullet is an average circum or circumferential reduction was 1.6 inches. Cryos kinda had a 1.8, six inch reduction.

[01:18:35] Interesting. Um, and 96% of the patients would recommend the procedure. So it looks like a great device. Mm-hmm um, but I can't imagine that it's anything less than what do you, what would you guess if these things value? 

[01:18:47] Mina: I would guess treatments it's probably listed at anywhere between two 50 to 300,000.

[01:18:52] Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the thing, you know, um, and that's, this is with any technology, you know, even with [01:19:00] like an iPhone, right. It's. When it's new and it's hot and it has technology that's nobody's ever seen before. It's going to be expensive. Yeah. And this is when practitioner, you know, but let's just say the efficacy is out of this world, but then now you assess, okay.

[01:19:17] Number one, is it worth it to bring in a device that only works on one thing and that's yes, body contouring is a huge market, but still it's just body contouring patients. So now you look at your own patient base, but it's still very expensive. Your monthly payment. Are you going to pay, are you going to be able to sell that much to even just I'm talking, not even profit, but to make back your monthly payments of the machine and.

[01:19:42] In order for you to do that, you've got to sell, what did you say on the website three to 4,000 of treatment? 

[01:19:47] Austin: Yeah. Treatment is what it looks like. 

[01:19:49] Mina: I'm going to shell that out because three to 4,000, my patients will opt for an office smart Lippo, which is barely any downtime. Finished [01:20:00] in 45 minutes, the scar is the size of a mosquito bite.

[01:20:03] You know, like the, the.in the middle of the mosquito bite. I mean, it's, they are just, you, you have to assess what's out there, whether it's you have it in your office or not. I mean, the thing is if your patient's going to pay that money, but they rather have Lippo, you gotta see what's next door too, because that's the worst thing is to lose a patient because you're trying to charge $4,000 for this fat freeze treatment or, you know, whatever this is the, the laser fat treatment.

[01:20:31] And, you know, you wanna offer an option. You wanna be able to sell them where you're retaining them and not have them go to the office next door with smart lipo. You know? So that's when the pricing gets a little too crazy for me. Um, from non, uh, non-invasive body. Conting that's too expensive. 

[01:20:52] Austin: Yeah. All right.

[01:20:53] So that's probably. Am I fair saying that's probably a maybe thing twice about [01:21:00] before adding yeah. It's machine 

[01:21:01] Mina: to, to watch. Okay. Put it this way. Yeah. You know, to keep it on your radar, watch, see how you know cool scope is also amazing going back to the first machine. But now with this many years of tenure of the machine, now we understand that there are side effects.

[01:21:19] I would watch this machine. Hmm. And then guess what? When there's new technology that comes up, this machine's gonna go down. 

[01:21:26] Austin: Probably probably. All right. So we'll add that to the, keep an eye on it, but maybe be a little bit more right. Run a bit more due diligence. Let's stay on that particular device. Yes.

[01:21:38] All right. Yeah. So trucking along to red light therapy in particular, the ultra slim device, which I will, again, set up here for you real self here it is in three, two. All right. So what is ultra slim? Well, first off it has pretty good ratings of, uh, or a worth it rating of 82%, pretty [01:22:00] damn expensive. It looks like the average cost is 3,200 bucks.

[01:22:03] Uh, just over that it is FDA cleared. It is a non-surgical contour procedure that uses proprietary red light technology. Also known as PBM or photo biomodulation to help reduce the fat layer just under the skin. And unlike cool scalor ultra shape, it doesn't destroy fat cells nor does it remove them like lipo.

[01:22:25] Which to me sounds like a, not something to tout as a big positive, but you know, the former, the, uh, not destroying the fat cells. Cause that's kind of what you want when you're do in cont, I would think. Right. But in any case, ultra slum uses L E D light, uh, red light energy to induce light SIS in fat cells.

[01:22:42] Um, so any, anyway, it, it triggers starvation mode in the cells creating a transitory pour in the membrane, releasing the triglycerides and fatty acids, causing the fat shes to keep it here, being to shrink, not permanently reduce them. Evidently thoughts on ultra, [01:23:00] uh, 

[01:23:02] Mina: I, I wouldn't get it. Straight up, moving on, you know, it just it's, uh, number one, it, this is the one I was talking about.

[01:23:10] It actually shrink it ITTS the fat cells, but the fat cells always gonna fill back up. Yeah. We're always going to eat. And as we age, as our metabolism slows down, the fat cells will accumulate and fill up even faster. And I mean, unless you're somebody that's like eating nothing but salad with no dressing all day and maybe, you know, a little tiny piece of grilled chicken, you know what I mean?

[01:23:36] Like, unless you're like that, first of all, you're like that you don't need this machine and it's just, it doesn't make any sense to me and red light therapy to me in general, it's great to produce or decrease. Uh, certain things we want on the skin superficially, you know, like we use red light therapy to decrease inflammation in [01:24:00] the skin.

[01:24:00] Mm. Or sometimes when I'd have a very, uh, ablative laser on a patient where they're really, really swollen, you know, after the, the procedure we put red light on them. Now I'm sure maybe it's a different types of ball, but different type of energy, red light doesn't really have energy. That's the thing like, meaning, like we can't control the output of the energy.

[01:24:21] I mean, if that's the case, I'll just change everything in my room with the red light bulb, I'd be super model skinny. By the time I walk out, it just, there's a lot of it's very questionable. And not only that, even the fact that their claim is just emptying the cells, it's, you're gonna get a pissed off patient.

[01:24:41] Austin: Fair enough. Okay. Well, uh, you have a very staunch opinion on that device, so we will move on. That is a, do not buy Perina. All right. So we will wrap up the show today with our favorite category of products, JK, LOL. That is not the case but cavitation [01:25:00] devices from, well, let's just say overseas. So I am looking at a handful of different devices.

[01:25:06] When you type in cavitation machine, you will find products like the standing ultrasonic lipo, laser cavitation 2.0, they love saying 2.0 RF sculpting, 40 K machine that sells for $1,200, uh, et cetera. So why are these devices something that no one should ever even consider touching categorically low 

[01:25:29] Mina: devices?

[01:25:30] So sad. It is. So, um, I, well, I wanna say, I don't wanna say market because there's not one person marketing behind it. It's not like BTL marketing the, the Neo or, or anything, but it is such a common term that people know of because so many people are using it. And I'll explain to you why it's not a medical device.

[01:25:50] So estheticians are buying it and offering laser. And, and if you do a search, these machines call themselves laser lipo. There's [01:26:00] no laser in there and there's no lipo in there, but it's their marketing term. I don't know why, unfortunately, I guess it's not regulated because it's not FDA approved. Number one is not FDA approved.

[01:26:11] Um, so, you know, what does that mean when it's not FDA approved? It means if you're a physician and you have an adverse event, you go to court, you get sued, then you lose because. You're using not an FDA approved device. So that's number one. Number two is just that there's no regulation in terms of what's really, I mean like, like it's calling it laser lipo.

[01:26:34] There's no laser and there's no lipo. Like why is a laser Lippo? I don't understand. Um, the reason why it is so common in term in terms of people know what it, or they think they know what it is. It's because estheticians are buying it and we have estheticians all over the world. Or let's just talk about all over the country.

[01:26:53] That's opening their own be, um, because they don't need a medical license to open just a facial place, you know, not [01:27:00] even a med spot because at the very least med spa, most states does require a medical director. So it's one of the few machines that an institutions can buy and perform legally. So with the saturation of amount of estheticians out there, there comes capitation.

[01:27:17] Now, uh, It does not work. They could call. They could say there was just like, they they're calling it laser lip bulb. They could say it's RF. They can say it's ultrasound and let's give them benefit of the doubt it's in there. The technology, it's not gonna go deep enough. There's no way that they have the clinical studies to, to perform, to see where the performance is at.

[01:27:41] And they're not gonna put something that, you know, as soon as the aesthetician puts it on the patient's body, it's gonna burn, you know, inflame. They're not gonna do that because you know, that that will be a huge, huge issue. So sometimes, and this is really bad to say, I even wonder if it's just [01:28:00] heating up their wand.

[01:28:01] Like it's just turning, it's like a, a heater at home. Right. You just turn it on. The wand turns hot and therefore they think it's working. I mean, it's horrible to say, but certain places overseas. Do make things that are not real. Again, going back to the fact that it's calling it a laser lipo device to the per a person that doesn't know better, and it's having a consultation with an aesthetician, it sounds great.

[01:28:31] Hey, you know, just do 10 sessions of the laser lipo.

[01:28:38] Wow. 

[01:28:40] Austin: Now, oh God, I didn't realize there was no, I haven't looked close at these devices that just immediately wrote them off because the sticker on the side of them pricewise, but there is no laser technology in them. There's no capitation technology in them. So it is immediately deceptive, which should be the first sign of, uh, I should [01:29:00] steer clear this.

[01:29:01] Um, and they just categorically don't work. And so those that do think that the devices are working really are just experiencing a, um, A heating of the wa. And so it, it seems like they are working, right. 

[01:29:15] Mina: They're just, you know what, it's questionable and we, we, there's just no way we could know, because there's no studies behind it.

[01:29:21] Um, and. Before any estheticians, if there are estheticians listening or watching comes to try to kill me, they're going to dispute then. No, no, no, it works. So what is actually really popular in using right now? It's not on its own that there's something called with therapy or body sculpting that is done by estheticians where it's a multi-step procedure to break down.

[01:29:49] Okay. This is quote unquote what they sell it as break down fat cells and reduce cellulite. So it involves the rolling of certain wood devices on a certain [01:30:00] part of your body followed by the capitation device, or they might call it the laser lipo and then followed by, I don't know, some lymphatic drains it's multistep.

[01:30:11] It's like, I look at it as such manual labor that I'm just like, wow. Um, and they say it works. And of course, when you're manipulating fat. Or anyone's body like that it is gonna work because we all, as we age have kind of accumulated water and, you know, fat are not smoothed out. So I don't know if in fact you're gonna lose inches, but they are going to be different.

[01:30:38] If somebody comes and manipulate my body like that, you know, of course I'm gonna look different too. However, um, you know, they think it's avitation, that is part of the procedure. That's making it work, but it's not, I could use hot stones and do what they're doing as part of their multi-step protocol. And it's going to produce the same result if you understand what I'm saying.[01:31:00] 

[01:31:00] Wow. 

[01:31:02] Austin: Wow. So that device, categorically, the category of devices that are these low ticket sub $5,000, right? Quote, laser Lippo, cavitation type devices. Run for the 

[01:31:18] Mina: Hills, if run for the Hills. I mean, no, if you are a legit medical practice, that's looking to purchase it. I would definitely not get it. If you are, you know, a spa owner that is not medicine based, you know, where there's no medical director, um, I would be careful and I would really truly go and understand the protocol for something and why it works and choose the right device to work it with rather than just taking somebody's protocol and just straight up transferring it to using it as your own.

[01:31:50] You know, at the end of the day, I think I've set this a hundred times is the understanding, you know, once you understand something, you can even tweak a treatment, you know, even with these body countering [01:32:00] devices out there that do work, you know, if you combine it with something else, you have your own treatment that is superior to other people and that's really effective.

[01:32:10] So at the end of the day, it's patient retention, and this is how you're gonna get the person to come back. 

[01:32:16] Austin: 100%. Well, Maine, is there anything we didn't cover? We didn't touch on that. We, we should wrap with no, that jumps to mind covered a 

[01:32:27] Mina: lot. We, we covered a lot of devices. I'm surprised. Wow. I thought it would take us all day, Austin.

[01:32:35] Austin: No, we got through it. Cool. Sculpting and sculpt accent prime, true scope. Sculpt venous freeness, legacy, Alexis ultra vanquish by BTL eon red light therapy, ultra slim and capitation devices. Wow. Yes. Well, there you have it. Uh, geez, Louise, lot of ground covered. Uh, I do want to give you the final word. So is there any advice you would give the [01:33:00] listeners?

[01:33:01] I don't know. Maybe it's one bullet. If this is the theme that goes on the jumbotron at the super bowl to beauty and wellness professionals, looking to add a body Contra and device, what bullet. Or what one sentence would you give them as advice? So they can avoid making a very idiotic investment decision.

[01:33:22] Mina: I would say to ask for clinical studies. And, but there's one word of caution with that though, is that you have to make sure the clinical studies is based on the device is device specific because a lot of companies, and this has happened so many times, I've called so many people out on this is that they'll give me a Crysis study that is done on with something else, but Hey, look, it works.

[01:33:47] You know, it, the fat cells die. I know that. I wanna know that the ones that on yours work, you know, so it's, and you're gonna have resistance, but you know, that's very, [01:34:00] very important over anything else. You just really have to understand the device. 

[01:34:04] Austin: Got it. Well, Mina, where can the audience connect with you if they want to jump into your orbit?

[01:34:10] Mina: Um, well, they, I am on Instagram and, uh, I have multiple accounts because of multiple companies, but, uh, they could go on V V I V R E skin labs dot, uh, not.com, just VVE skin labs. Then they can DM me there. 

[01:34:27] Austin: Cool. I will link that in the description below. So you all have, uh, access to vs. Skin labs and, uh, Mina.

[01:34:35] Wow. I appreciate you making the time today. And this has been a lot of fun. Thanks again for doing this. Thank 

[01:34:40] Mina: you. I had so much fun. Thanks for having me back. 

[01:34:42] Austin: It was amazing. Yeah, we'll have you on again. I'm sure at some point soon. Thank you. Okay. Take care.