Paul Buckley on Creative Direction

Paul Buckley is a Senior Vice President, Executive Creative Director at Penguin Random House, where he conducts a large staff of exceptionally talented designers and art directors overseeing ten imprints called The Penguin Art Group. Paul also personally designs, and art directs for a few of the imprints under his umbrella and is directly responsible for the branding of authors, big and small. His iconic design and singular art direction have been showcased on thousands of books, winning many awards and invitations to speak around the globe. Aside from books, Paul has designed posters for ICON/The Illustration Conference, The Society of Illustrators, and We The People at 41 Cooper Gallery NYC. Paul has also created illustrations for print and online publications, book covers, and shirts.

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Transcript

Roy Sharples: 0:06

Hello, I'm Roy Sharples, welcome to the unknown origins podcast. Why are you listening to this podcast? Are you seeking inspiration? an industry expert, looking for insights or growing your career? I created the unknown origins podcast to provide access to insights and content from creators worldwide with inspirational conversations on storytelling, about art, architecture, design, entrepreneurship, fashion, film, music, and pop culture. Paul Buckley, the Senior Vice President, Executive Creative Director at Penguin Random House, where he conducts a large staff of exceptionally talented designers and art directors, overseeing 10 imprints called the penguin art group. Paul also personally designs and art directs for a few of the imprints under his umbrella, and is directly responsible for the branding of authors, big and small. His iconic design and singular Art Direction have been showcased on 1000s of books, winning many awards, and invitations to speak around the globe. Aside from books, Paul has designed posters for icon, the illustration conference, the Society of Illustrators, and we the people at 41 Cooper Gallery in New York City. Paul has also created illustrations for print and online publications, book covers, and shirts. Hello, and welcome, Paul. So what inspired and attracted you to become a creative director in the first place, but also, specifically within the publishing industry,

Paul Buckley: 1:49

it was a bit of a fluke, really, I went to SVA on an illustration scholarship. I was my father was an art director and advertising friends everywhere. And he noted in me very early on a propensity towards drawing. And, you know, I was lucky in the sense that I had a parent who recognized a path that I was interested in and encouraged that so you know, folks who were getting children's books for Christmas and their birthdays, I was getting that yours Society of Illustrator and Communication Arts and print. So I grew up is a very small child, certainly geared towards the commercial arts. And when I was 17, I was working in Bucks County for a traveling petting zoo, and amusement park, and it was full of unsavory characters back then in the 80s. That think freaked me out. And he went into high gear, and landed me a apprenticeship in a small advertising agency, paste up, studio back in the day when there were no computers, it was stat machines and triangles, and T squares and razor blades and rubber cement to lay down a piece of tape and I was in charge of the stat machine, I would enlarge type, I would clean it, keep it running. I think after a couple months, they gave me five bucks an hour and I get on the train, I'd commute back and forth in New York City from bucks with my father, four and a half hours a week. So during that time, I was going to a school down here called Bucks County Community College, which was a bit of a fine art school and it actually provided a fine base. And from there, I landed a scholarship to SVA on my illustration work. And I started commuting to New York. I mean, in the beginning extra to backtrack a minute here. In the beginning, I would commute back and forth to New York a few days a week work in this pay stub studio. And the other few days a week I would go to Bucks County Community College, do my homework or I'm back and forth to New York. I was seven I was literally 17. I graduated high school a bit early and the week after graduation that Monday, I hit the ground running and I was commuting to New York City which was a terrible life. I knew that my father had done this for 12 years. I didn't like the look of it. I didn't find it a healthy way to lead a life. So when SVA offered me a scholarship, I moved there. And I was still extremely really gung ho about illustration, I knew all the players names, I knew what I loved what I didn't like, I could speak commercial art very well. But at the same time, I was getting a graphic design, but education, not a degree, but an education and the studios that would pop around into it started working for New York Magazine and various other magazines at the same time. So going to SVA couple days working in different studios, commercial studios in house. And at the same time I started doing in my junior year freelance illustration. And it just, it was sort of, I realized that I wasn't in love with illustrating as much as I was in love with graphic design. Now, it's usually the other way around. But for me, it was it was not. And I had these two skills. And I just, I don't know, I think I need structure in my life, I started to lean towards a full time job. Or otherwise, I would work till two, three in the morning, every day, get going again, around noon. And it was just it was a not a healthy situation for me. i After SVA, I took a trip to the road trip through Americas and a bit of Central America winding up in Belize for a month. And when I came back, I needed a job. And someone who I had worked with from that paste of studio back in the day knew of a junior position at NL which is now part of Penguin was mass market publishing, I met the art director with my portfolio. Totally illustration, and he took a chance on me a little bit of design there, but most of it was illustration. And I became a junior in there. And he also ran a department that was trade, which is, you know, the distinction between mass market and trade. mass market is anything you would feel find in an airport or a drugstore, you know, those little mass paperbacks and trade is something a little more sophisticated, generally a more literary sort of author, as well as, you know, running the gamut to cook books and things like that. And I wanted into that department. So he let me make the switch that art director was, you know, took me in, and I learned the ropes. And then I realized, you know, I was very lucky this fit like a glove, I always loved reading, I'd never actually really thought about as a kid design over illustration. But once I started doing it, it felt right for me. And I stuck with it, in a sense that every book that came to me as an assignment, I saw as I'll design and illustrate this, and then I quickly learned, I am not the best illustrator for every project and to let go, and to hire the right person for the job, ultimately made my work better. So I was lucky in two ways. My father recognized in me a love for the arts. He was already in New York, in the field. And then I landed into a spot that I realized fit me, you know, many young people today and, you know, always struggle with what is their career going to be? And I feel for them because not everybody is lucky to find the path easily or have someone to help them find that path. And I was extremely lucky and both of these ways. And I've literally been with the same company for I think 33 years now. I met my wife there on the first day and wow make excuses to go to the stat room to designer in the marketing department. I met my best friends on that first day there. And it has provided me an excellent life and I just, I tenaciously hung on through three mergers, some wicked wicked art directors, some very wicked publishers, all people that I had to suffer and weather storms through and I hung in and I made myself at home and now I Think When did I get the creative director title, it's going back aways now, but maybe 17 years and something like that. But I just followed the path. And I was very lucky. And every day, I'm working on different sorts of projects, reading different authors and working with fantastic people.

Roy Sharples: 10:22

Right! It must be an elating experience working for an affectionate brand with undated influence upon people's lives and society. But overall, I mean, Penguin has revolutionized, in fact, democratized book publishing, through making books affordable to the masses, and proving that books are essential for everyone than just that high society elite view. And that the belief that stories, connect, change and move people forward across time and space.

Paul Buckley: 10:55

Yeah, it's one of the things that when I say publishing, felt like you know, fit like a glove, you're doing something that matters. I don't ever want to work on a website. I don't ever want to work on ads. Not that these things don't matter, they do. But I just really like that we put out into the world, things that can change your life for the better. I also like that we're keeping alive. Books, these these gorgeous, you know, my work is two dimensional, but it turns into these gorgeous three dimensional objects that, you know, hopefully, the goal is always craftsmanship and distinction, and they look good on your table. So keeping that alive since much of publishing is, I think, 75%, something like that is bought online. But hopefully, when it gets to your home, it's something you're glad it's In addition, you're glad you bought.

Roy Sharples: 11:59

What is your creative process, Paul, in terms of how do you make the invisible visible by dreaming up ideas, developing them into concepts, and then bringing them to actualization?

Paul Buckley: 12:12

You know, it totally runs the gambit. Each project, like every person, or anything else is just totally its own animal. And sometimes, when they're oftentimes, actually, when we're in a meeting, or maybe I'm gonna back up a second, explain to the process of how I get pitched. We have weekly meetings for every imprint. And my group oversees, I think, 10 imprints right now. So there are weekly meetings for each imprint, I go to two of them, Penguin and Viking overseeing penguin. And at the table, there are editors, publishers, a marketing director, other as you know, managing editors, that's about the group right there. And the editor will come in, but publishers already aware of the book because maybe there was an auction or they needed, you know, they just sort of sometimes need permission to buy things. So they're well aware of the project. They sit down at the table with the art department, I have my whole crew there, which was several people work on why the imprint, they're all there from juniors on up to me. And the editor starts telling us about the project, who the author is me, we've published them before what the book is about. They'll show us comps, which are always helpful. These are titles in the genre that have done well or more importantly, that we like visually, they'll ask the author for their input on what colors do you like so we can figure out sort of where the FedEx might lie. So there's no real surprises down the road. So it's all very collaborative. Sometimes an image will pop into my head right there at the table, and I'll pitch it not having read a sentence of the book. And sometimes it'll be like, that's fantastic. Let's try that. Or there'll be no you certainly need to read the book. You're not You're not quite we understand why you're saying that but you're not really getting it or it'll be you know, it's always lovely when they say we're not completely sure why don't you read it and come back to us with stuff because of my illustration background. I have infused penguin with illustration. There when I started books were extremely elegant. Not that I don't shoot for elegance, but they were always black and white photo, super tracked out type. Type super small, just sitting on top of photo above it in a box or something. And that's that's lovely at times, but I really love color I really love pop. I really love things that sort of visually scream at junior high can't miss in a bookstore, hopefully. So it's often me bringing back illustrator samples, which we would then go to sketches on. And then the sketches may or may not go to an author, which is always a scary thing, you either direction can be scary. Then the final comeback when I work with illustrators, I like to work with illustrators who can also do typography, I like for them to create their own package, I do a lot of this in the penguin class, especially the deluxe editions, we literally hand them the manuscript and say, Go shock us make us laugh, do something, I want some emotion out of this. And whenever you untie, somebody just say, look, there's a good chance we're gonna prove whatever you come back with, then they really go for it, they sort of take the training wheels off, and there's no hesitation. And it's amazing what an artist will do if you if they have faith that you're going to let them run. The other other times it's, it's going to be photography driven. And those times, it's a matter of sort of looking, looking a lot, which can be, sometimes you sort of feel like a guy just flipping through 100 websites or stock houses. And that's kind of unglamorous, we often don't have money to commission save fiction, photo shoots, though it does happen. It's just more of the rare bird and the publishing world, we do publish, or we do commission photos for authors, if it's a book about a celebrity or a subject that should be on the cover of the book. I really love all type packaging. And even if I'm going to design around a photo, even before I'll start looking for the photo, I think 50% of the time that I'm working on a cover, if not more, maybe 75% of time, it's me going into my type directories, and I look at type and I try all different types, until I find a combination of fonts that excite me and have the personality of the book and that I know I can push in an interesting way. And then I start to think about what falls behind it. And a lot of times, it's just sometimes do, I gotta show in a few weeks, I just got to get to it. And then I sort of hunker down. So it's sort of a combination of all of these things. I mean, we have plenty of lead time, but you're juggling so many projects, there's always some that happen at the end. But those always it sort of plays out nicely, because those are also the ones that you've been percolating on and really thinking about either subconsciously or consciously. And I'm constantly moving through the world is looking at the images all around me, will that work for that title? Will this work for that? It's just always just looking at things and I can go into a museum, it's kind of sick, because I don't enjoy the art I'm looking at and thinking but this work on a book, where I should just be looking at the art and having a good time. Sort of the way I'm wired. So it really, really runs the gamut. But either way, we come back we do comps, I show that to you, my staff is ridiculously talented. They're in the room. Sometimes it's just a matter of should we give this book to this person. I worked very closely with a person in Roseanne Sarah, who's also art directing penguin with me, and we sort of bounce back and forth like who would be good on staff for this title? What are their strengths? Will it help them grow? Will it play into their strengths? And then we let them loose or there might be somebody in the room who will contact us and say, Look, Paul, Rosanna, I'd like to work on this title if you haven't already designed it. And that's always a beautiful thing, too. So it really runs the gamut. But at some point the comps get brought back in or the art gets brought back and it gets put on the table in front of the same people that pitched it to us. They kick it around. Sometimes it's just a homer. It's like yes, let's do this, which is always a gorgeous thing. Sometimes it's a tweak here and there. Sometimes it's somebody's subjective opinion crushing your soul that day. That doesn't happen as much as it used to, but it really really runs it got it right.

Roy Sharples: 20:00

So what critical skills are needed to survive and thrive as a creative director in the book publishing industry?

Paul Buckley: 20:09

First and foremost, I think it's big skin. There are houses, editors, publishers, marketing directors, places where you might find yourself where your work is getting killed all the time. I've worked for people where it's purely subjective, they're not good at communicating. Why. So you sort of feel a little less lost and kind of shooting into the void every time you present comps to these folks. Again, that that seems to be in the past I didn't I find myself in the last 10 years working with a ridiculously good group of people who get the amount of work and struggle that we put into the things that we put before them. And they appreciate that. So everything is always constructive. That said, constructive or not, there are times where you have to fight for your work, you know that you've nailed it. You know, what they're asking for is coming from the author who doesn't really have a good visual sense, then they may or may not say that to you, but they're also stuck in hard place, because they got to get back to that author. So there there are times you have to fight for something. That said, it's always that line in the sand is always shifting, it's always changing, it's always a struggle, you don't want to be the most difficult person in the room. You don't want to be someone that people cannot collaborate with. So I'm always sort of keeping an eye on that. But at the same time, I'm not going to will, over someone's sort of bad direction and lackluster needs. The point is always be distinctive and well crafted. That said, it's just gone the gamut. And you know, UPS is knocking at the door, and this author is just not going to give up. Maybe we decide, you know, sometimes they let an author go like, well, we just got to get this done. Probably won't pick up the next book. You know, based on the best you can do is crafted. Well not put your name on it because you're embarrassed if you ever pick up a book and you don't see cover designed by us because somebody is very unproud of that.

Roy Sharples: 22:34

Yeah, yeah, the pride and craftsmanship is a key one, and remain an honest, trustworthy and responsible for taking pride in everything you do, as a creator, helps you achieve the highest quality craft and professional excellence levels, but also, being passionately dedicated to your craft, evokes continuous wonder discovery and joy. Your other point about how you are constantly observing, analyzing and criticizing everyday life, and then imagining how the thoughts you have can be manifested and applied to your work that really struck me. Like the story you you told about when you go to an art gallery, rather than appreciate the art for what it is, your mind goes off into the tangent of how could it be made relatable and understandable by providing purpose and meaning in the context of a book. So if you look back upon your career to date, what are the lessons learned in terms of the pitfalls to avoid, and the keys to success that you can share with aspiring and existing creative directors in the book publishing industry?

Paul Buckley: 23:47

Well, we're a we're a collaborative sort, right? You're hiring people not unlike a director. So the best thing you can do for yourself and your team, your publishing team is hire the best people you can. What I've noted very quickly, is that there are people who see these full time creative jobs as jobs. And there are people who see them as careers you want to be the person that sees it as a career. If not, you know, if you want to go freelance at some point, fine, but in that period of time, you got to crush it as a career so that you can leave with a very well honed body of work. The people who see it as a job, you can recognize that quite quickly. They never hire the right people. You know, they're always you know, this is gonna sound kind of crude but they're always giving chances to people. Now, often their friends this, this doesn't work. If your friends are extremely talented, go for it. If your friends that you're hiring, whether it's be on a freelance basis or on a full time job. If they don't show that spark, I don't, I don't care if they're 2122. And they, they of course are going to grow. But if they don't show that spark, if you can tell, they're lazy and unmotivated, and kind of don't get it, you may change that by putting them around a group of, you know, slamming talented people. But if you have enough of those people, they drag you down. So you do have to be very rigorous and who you hire. And you do have to, if you're in this business, because you need a job and you're decent at it, you can get something approved, you're just sort of doing it for the wrong reasons. So, basically, for me, it's about hiring my heroes. And just who was going to, you know, somebody spent two or three years writing this book, who is going to do them justice, who's going to do this book justice. And it's just you gotta keep that Pereda hits coming. And you should be thankful that you have a job that is so sort of wonderful. And that sort of get lazy and hire people that you sort of like, but they're not fantastic. Does that make sense?

Roy Sharples: 26:26

Indeed, talent not sure is essential to running a healthy business, and setting the highest bar for excellence. By making the very most out of the products, services and experiences you produce. Great people pull you up and compound the success of your business. And they grow with you, as opposed to those, dialing it in who hoodwinked and squeeze their way into your organization, through the gaps, and in the worst case, become toxic, which poisons the well and is difficult to eradicate Paul, navigating into the future, what's your vision for book publishing, and the role of creativity?

Paul Buckley: 27:07

Well, we are Penguin! So we have a long history, and it's wonderful and scary to, you know, be in charge of a chunk of that, visually, my goal is the same as it's always been, to get you to see something to get you to want it to get you to, to buy it to create keep books alive. Regardless of their digital footprint. I think my team has been rather successful. You know, when I say there's only 25% of books are being sold as physical copies, I'd like to hope that we are a good chunk of that, you know, I don't know what that percentage would be. But I do believe strongly, especially again, with the Penguin Classics, you have many options, if you're going to buy, you know, the awakening or The Sun Also Rises, whatever it may be, you can buy a used tattered copy, because you're in college, and you just need to read it for a class. It's 30 bucks, or you can buy one of our hard covers. Because you're a little bit older, and you either love this book, or it's something you've heard about or you tried it when you were younger, and it was sort of didn't work for you, but you think you should give it a shot. A lot of our people, a lot of our customers buy our books, you know, just for shelf ease, you know, just for because they like the look of them. That's okay, you know, maybe one day they'll pick it up and read it. But what we're always trying to do with the classics, I work on a lot of classics, I work in a lot of books, but classic sort of has my heart because we sort of get away with wonderful things. They're the stories are often old, but the human condition is the same for the relationships have the same issues. The prompts change, we now have phones but the human condition remains the same the problems the troubles, the joys all remain the same. So how do we package them in a way that 100 year old book will look fresh to you without lying to you but will be like this might have something in here that you can correlate to your life so that I find fun a lot of people working on the classics they sort of and this is what happened when I when I started working here they started working on this They would just take, you know, a piece of art from the Loof and slap it on there, put some type over it, put it in a format, Penguin was famous for its formats. And then we busted out of that and decided to have a lot more fun with the material, and to be a little more daring with it. And sales have taken off. Sometimes I pitch projects, you know, I've been here long enough that I can pitch a project. And that's always even more wonderful to work on because you sort of came up with the idea for a series of books. But the point is to always put out something that's this gorgeous read, regardless of the topic, whether it's hard or not. There's there's a way to come at it that will be fresh, and will be distinctive, and hopefully, more people will want to buy it. That that has always been the goal.

Roy Sharples: 31:02

Creators who make books inspire thinking for people to take action. By building connections, understanding perspectives, and broadening capacity across time and space books have always played an influential role in helping feed and evolve the human condition. By expanding our imagination and knowledge acquisition, improving our communication skills, and intelligence so long may it continue to blossom and grow. Do you want to learn more about how to create Without Frontiers by unleashing the power of creativity and consider getting

CREATIVITY WITHOUT FRONTIERS: 31:46

How to make the invisible visible by lighting the way into the future. It's available in print, digital and audio on all relevant book platforms. You have been listening to the Unknown Origins podcast, please follow subscribe rate and review us for more information go to unknownorigins.com Thank you for listening