Tim Greenhalgh on Creative Direction

Tim Greenhalgh is the Chief Creative Officer at Landor & Fitch where he steers the creative direction globally for this brand transformation company.

Tim has been awarded for his work from the likes of LEGO, McLaren, and Harrods. He has also been a judge and advisor for many awards and industry bodies, including the DBA and D&AD’s International Advisory Board. Tim is listed as a Retail Design Luminary by design: retail and is also a course mentor on the BA for Interior Architecture & Design at the University for the Creative Arts (UCA). 

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Transcript

Roy Sharples: 0:06

Hello, I'm Roy Sharples, welcome to the unknown origins podcast. Why are you listening to this podcast? Are you seeking inspiration? an industry expert, looking for insights, or growing your career? I created the unknown origins podcast to provide access to insights and content from creators worldwide with inspirational conversations and storytelling, about art, architecture, design, entrepreneurship, fashion, film, music, and pop culture. Tim greenhouse is the Chief Creative Officer of Londo, and Fitch, where he steers his creative direction globally. For this brand transformation company. Tim has been awarded for his work with the likes of Lego McLaren and Harrods. He has also been a judge and advisor for a number of awards and industry bodies, including the DBA and the D on a DS International Advisory Board. Tim is listed as a retail design luminary by design, retail, and is also a course mentor on the BA for Interior Architecture and Design at the University of the creative arts. Hello, and welcome, Tim. So what inspired and attracted you to a career in branding within the creative industry in the first place?

Tim Greenhalgh: 1:36

I don't know if I ever really set out to do branding, because you know, back when I was a boy, you know brands existed, but the kind of world of brands probably wasn't quite as, as sharply focused as it is, it is now. I mean, I, I knew I wanted to do something in the world of creativity. I thought I wanted to do something in the world of art. But I did this thing called a foundation course, which I think is possibly, genuinely the happiest year of my life, because it was just like going back to the sandpit in terms of just being able to play across many different things, whether it's fashion design, or printmaking or fine art, or it was just wonderful. But typical of me, I couldn't quite decide what I wanted to do. And I thought I wanted to do graphic design and pottery. But actually, what I ended up doing was what was called three dimensional design in Manchester, which was glassblowing, furniture, jewelry design, and, and ceramics. Wow. And loved it. But then, as I got towards the end of my degree, I realized that I probably didn't want to be a potter. So I decided that, that I would focus much more on my furniture. And actually, I was lucky enough to get offered a scholarship to do an MA, because I actually got a young designer of the year, not the only one but one of the young designers of the year for a table I design which was based on Battersea Power Station. And as I say I got a scholarship to do an MA at Manchester in interior design, which I was thrilled about. But they managed to get me a job over the summer for a company called fish. So I went down, and it was just amazing. I was buying things working for this business. And I suppose that's the first time I genuinely realized where design met branding because we were working for Debenhams, we were working for Midland Bank, which later became HSBC and all these different companies. And so I asked if I could actually have a full time job because I felt I was learning more working for Fitch and they did offer me a job. Very quick aside, they then said, can I just quickly have a holiday because I've not had a holiday since I finished my degree show. They said yes, of course. I went away to Spain for a week, came back was so excited about the job I had. But I went straight from Victoria Station, having gone back to Gatwick Airport, straight into the studio in Soho. hadn't even dropped my bags off and just suddenly couldn't find my desk and said, Where's my desk? And they said, well, actually, did you not get the letter? And I said sorry. They say, well, actually, we had to let you go to the project. He said, But you're here now. Sit down, get on with something and when you get home tonight rip the letter up. So if I'd gone home anyway, so Wow. Yeah, amazing. So I guess is the name of the game. Anyway, but you know, the thing about Fitch The thing about my career has been the thing I've enjoyed the most I suppose hence the reason for that long story was just, I love a multidisciplinary world. And if you think about where brands are today, they are everything from websites to apps to spaces to events to films to storytelling. Yeah. Which is entirely played into the thing that I find the most interesting about how design can make a difference is it's looking at that multidisciplinary way in which brands can show up in people's lives.

Roy Sharples: 5:09

Tim, your taste is excellent. The architectural and design marvel of industrial Britain and its magnificent art deco style is Battersea Power Station, which dominated the London skyline for generations, and was an endless source of inspiration for many music, videos, films, and television programs. were inspired you to come up with that

Tim Greenhalgh: 5:34

I was trying a lot of different things. And my tutor is said to be about because I was I was more drawn to the kind of the architectural side yeah, design. I guess I was satisfying my craft by a through my glassblowing. And through my ceramics, but when it came to furniture, was heavily influenced by a lot of Italian designers. And also a lot of architects who had quite naturally and often very typically develop the furniture design themselves. So he suggested I looked at the way in which I could use machines to create pattern and also to create interesting furniture. So the power station, if you look at those, the the actual tear of the actual columns of the power station, yeah, the detail, the Art Deco detail in those columns is unbelievable. So I was actually able to recreate that using routers and machinery in the workshop. And so that's really what inspired it. Plus, as you've already said, I spent quite a lot of time just looking at the it is if you look at the power station, it is an absolute proportion for any kind of a table. Yeah, so in fact, I think it has been agreed reference that that before as the upside down table.

Roy Sharples: 6:49

An upside down billard table?

Tim Greenhalgh: 6:53

its way up. So it was the four columns with the chimneys within a a glass, a glass top and yeah, Margaret Thatcher's saw it at my show and asked me if she could have it for the hallway at number 10 Downing Street. It's not right. Yeah. Wow. I think she was just being polite.

Roy Sharples: 7:14

When did you first get the inclination that you are creative?

Tim Greenhalgh: 7:18

I mean, ever since a child, all I done was really apart from sport. Wow, was was drawing I just spent my entire time job was the thing that was kind of my happy place. Yeah. So as I say, my parents had friends who were artists. And I just used to love spending time with them watching what they were doing and things. My mom was an actress as well as a director. So I spent a lot of time in my early years painting set building sets for theater productions and stuff. So that was was fascinating. But I think, as I say, I did the foundation course, RPG of my life. I studied the various things I said, but I think it was the first time when I actually presented to a client and the client at a relatively young age and the client seemed rather engaged, or rather compelled to go with my suggestion that I suddenly realize that maybe at this point, now I'm starting to become creative. Yeah. Because, you know, I make a differences, as I think it's important to do between being an artist and being a designer. Yeah, I think we're the designer, you know, we're producing, producing stuff, something for somebody else. Yes. And that's not to say that artists don't, but they live more within their own heads, and they're producing things for themselves that they hope the outside world will appreciate. Whereas with design, I think what we do has an end use. And I think, you know, one of the things I've always said is that part of our jobs as creatives and designers, is to get a client to say maybe rather than No. And what I mean by that is because of what we do, we live in a dark world, we live in the magic arts of creativity and ideas. It's very subjective. And I think sometimes we can be we can do things that make our clients quite nervous. But equally, and their instinct will be to say, no, that will work. Whereas our job is to make sure clients understand how it could work, how it could make the world their brand, their products, their offer better. And I think that's the true creativity, which is to not just be able to draw something that's amazing, but to get somebody to understand it, and agree to

Roy Sharples: 9:30

Yes, in that context, creativity is new ideas that have a use commercial and societal value. That's also a fair general description of an artist and designer, whereas the artist in general designs for themselves by their own individual sense of the stakes and the the outcome, whereas designers tend to design for people and the practical use of what they're designing for, and how to end apt, they're designed to appeal to others, not necessarily the themselves. So Tim, what what is your creative process in terms of? How do you make the invisible visible by dreaming up ideas, developing them into concepts, and then bringing them to actualization?

Tim Greenhalgh: 10:19

So how do you bring ideas to life is, you know, is a very interesting question. I think. I think the the, the thing that I realized very quickly was, of course, you're given a brief. Unless you are creating something purely from scratch, which very rarely happens. I have always been taught that it's really important to, to understand who you are designing for. Yeah. And actually, I find that the most fascinating about, excuse me, spending time, understanding who the customer is, what their ambitions are, what their needs are, what their wants are, what their dreams are. And then starting to think through their eyes as to how best to produce an idea. The next stage, I think, would then be to, to understand the convention of what you're designing. And I say that really passionately. Because I think that any creative, any designer can't look to challenge a convention unless they've truly understood the convention. Exactly. Yes. And respected it. Because otherwise, that's just anarchy, you're just being punkish. Yes, rather than questioning and challenging. And so I think to understand the dynamic of a GOP convention, can you as I've already said, Can you only then truly sit down, and then challenge that convention, and that is something through my formative years that I was taught to do, which was not to just draw my way out of a paper bag, but to think about where to put people back to, to sit down and to look at something and write spend more time writing in the early stages of things that come to mind in terms of things that are typical, how we might be challenged. And then the other thing that we've always done, and I've always totally done quite successful, because I've always been a great proponent of this idea of bold thinking, is to is to not look for the answer, as it were almost right next door to where you're sitting to really look in other places first. Because I think it's often the out of categories where you find the more interesting, more interesting ideas. So, again, I'm hope I'm answering your question in that, I think, understand the customer. Understand the convention so that you can challenge the convention, and then look for inspiration. I'm not abashed or embarrassed to say, you shouldn't be looking for inspiration by but the other other work that's been done, I mean, the final answer the true answer to your question, I think, however, as I'm talking this through, and it's one of those questions that it's getting me to always think about it myself in a way I haven't maybe done for a while is, is. And I've always say this to a lot of young designers when they start with us is, please, whatever you do, don't lose your curiosity. Yeah. Because I think I think that to me, and that kind of sense of enthusiasm, that sense of wonder, that sense of wanting to learn constantly, to me is what has kept me still really excited about coloring in because that's what I do, from

Roy Sharples: 13:36

Your point about anarchy and being punkish. In that context. Yes, you have to know enough about something to reject conventions by constantly analyzing, questioning, and challenging the status quo by providing an alternative as an improved solution.

Tim Greenhalgh: 13:54

I remember I mean, I remember we were working for a really large business in Hong Kong who wanted to launch this new or improve their supermarket chain big supermarket, run by people X Tescos. X as direct Sainsbury's, your expats working in Hong Kong. And the only way for us to understand about how Chinese people both shop and eat was for us to spend time in wet markets. Yes, and the most fascinating places in the world. Yeah, you know, to understand that, unlike a British consumer, you know, people in China and Hong Kong shopping three times a day because they always want the freshest product they can get. So you know, they don't have big ladders. They don't have big storms. I digress to make a point, which is if we hadn't spent time in these wet markets if we hadn't watched how these people eat, and if we hadn't really understood how they would appreciate a more modern, maybe slightly more Western experience, as opposed to just giving them what we've always designed in the UK. I don't think we'd have come up with As good a solution as we did, because it was the beauty of West meat East meets West. Yeah. And actually came up with a solution we came up with, which was, which was fascinating.

Roy Sharples: 15:10

Yeah, that research led approach that applies ethnographic and anthropological techniques and tools that encompass observing people's behaviors and their natural situations to capture what they do. And this approach helps understand the cultural trends and lifestyle factors through context, norms, routine, and the daily life habits within communities and societies. In a way, it's a little bit like method Octan, which was adopted by actors like Marlon Brando, Alpecin, Robert De Niro, and, and Daniel Day Lewis to emotionally self identify with the character and fully immerse themselves in a role. So to give an example of that, Daniel Day, Lewis infamously prepared for his roles in excruciating detail by experiencing the lives and feelings of the characters he played, often going to extreme dedication. So for example, he learned how to write and paint with his feet, and spent weeks and a clinic to deeply connect with the condition of cerebral palsy when you did the roll in my left foot. So my point is, you can never do that, from hypothesis and remote research, like using the internet, you have to experience it physically, by doing it.

Tim Greenhalgh: 16:30

Exactly! And I think that when you know, when you work in a business that is, like landour, and Fitch, where a lot of our work is just pure expression. So it's how a brand expresses itself visually and in kind of more through the graphic arts. Or equally, how you cower brown crease and experience, you know, both of those requires, you've just said, to use some kind of a method of approach, which is to truly understand what it is like to be a customer, trying to buy a pair of training shoes or wanting it to be a customer who wants to start a new skin regime. So they're, they're looking for the best beauty brand to work with or to get involved with. And we have to understand that we did a great piece of research for a sportswear brand, where they were trying to understand Gen Zed consumers. And so we basically, we basically didn't live with them. But when they came in, they did workshops with them, we asked them to keep diaries, you know, that class plastic ethnographic research, yeah. But the things we found out, which completely turned around some of the precondition to the pre thought that we had was, you know, they don't particularly like shopping, they don't particularly look up when they go into stores, they hate being approached by staff. They don't really read the signage, and they'd much rather shop through their mobile phone. I mean, you know, we were like, we'd come up with all these ideas prior to this have amazing signage and videos, and it would just always debunked by totally. And the other one was that we found that which was a phrase that there's live with us for a while, which is that these people, these people listen to Gen Z consumers, are in a constant state of partial attention, which was just the best creative brief we've ever had. Because actually, I look at my own sons, who are now 2021 and 19. And used to think that they just were not listening to me and my wife we were talking to, because they were constantly staring at their phones. But they were absolutely paying attention. Yeah, they knew they know exactly what's going on. It's just we have to design in a different way for these people. And it was just brilliant. Absolutely brilliant.

Roy Sharples: 18:41

What are the critical skills needed to survive and thrive? As a creative leader? In branding? And organizations?

Tim Greenhalgh: 18:50

I think you can never lose your curiosity. You can never assume you know the answer without firstly, really interrogating the convention and understanding what it is you're designing. But then I think there's the other aspect, which is, which is, you know, I might have been a little bit jealously guarding of my own, you know, my own projection through a career path and all that kind of stuff. But I suppose after a while, you then start to do which I think is absolutely right, which is you start to recognize, actually other talent and actually promote other talent. Because I can't be the oldest ponytail in town or don't want to be the oldest ponytail. I have, to some point, fulfill the second half of my job title, which is director. Yeah. Yes. I'm a creative director. Yes, I can still draw. Yes, hopefully, I can still have a good idea. But to my mind is actually, to answer your question is to, actually and this is probably what I spend more of my time doing, than actually drawing you I'd love drawing is creating a culture that encourages bold thinking, going back to that phrase, and it's the culture side of it, where people feel that they have the right to come up with a stupid idea. Speak openly in meetings, not be afraid of being, you know, patronized, or, or looked down upon, you know, and you know, it is that kind of classic, any idea is a good idea. At the beginning, you just have to make sure it's a brilliant idea by the end. So I think from my point of view, it's, it's keeping that enthusiasm, keeping that curiosity and making sure that, that we don't we just we, we, we, the culture, the creative culture is one of, as I say, boldness, curiosity, and, and, and agitated I think.

Roy Sharples: 20:54

Creating and curating a culture where people feel empowered, free, and safe, to express themselves and create without fear, where people approach ideation and problem solving openly and innovatively. By trying out new ideas and ways of thinking, and doing.

Tim Greenhalgh: 21:12

We're all human beings. I mean, I think, you know, we're all guilty at times of complacency, of arrogance of conceitedness, and all that type of stuff. I think what's interesting, and what I've always enjoyed about where I've worked, particularly, Fitch, but also a camera, when I worked with camera was they were wonderful breeding grounds for young talent that actually the graduate program the new, like, my wasn't the beginning, new students coming in, actually keeps the energy and the culture of the business going. So you know, you may be 10 years into your career, and you may have recent dizzy heights and had no promotions every year. But suddenly, this young hotshot comes in from a young college, who's 22 years old and completely changes the way you think about how you're designing. To my mind, that's fast, the exciting part of what we do that is always still feels like being a college!

Roy Sharples: 22:08

Right! Embracing originality and making unique connections between disparate universes to define the future. And by having an insatiable feeling of you never know enough, and are always in the constant search for that trigger, to generate new experiences and inspiration that fuel your imagination, and having that childlike wonder and curiosity and approaching the world through the innocence of a child's eyes. Tim, I should reflect upon your career to date, what are your lessons learned, in terms of the pitfalls to avoid, and the keys to success that you can share with existing and aspiring creative directors?

Tim Greenhalgh: 22:55

It probably goes without saying that every designer I've ever met, is constantly frustrated, never happy with what they've done. I always think they could have done it better. And I think that's a wonderful attribute to have. Yeah. Because I think going back to them word complacency. You know, I think a pitfall would be too to assume you've arrived, and you've, you've got, you've got to the destination. And I That worries me, you know, i i the energy to be constantly looking for new ideas, is the thing you've really got to keep alive. And I'm keeping a level of naivety. Yeah, I mean, I'm 57 years old, I've been working in this industry for 34 years. Who cares? I mean, really, who cares? If I can't come up with an original idea, if I can't come up with an idea, the guests the room, whether that's an internal audience or a client audience, that kind of getting into the room excited, then doesn't matter how much experience I've got, I've just become dull, right? I've become dull, because I'm not I've lost the enthusiasm. I've lost the curiosity. There's that word again. So I think, I mean, as you asked me about whether that's a pitfall and I've got to be careful that I'm not in any way accusing anybody of being those things. I just think it is something that we all should be mindful of. Yeah, whatever career we're in about, about just about complacency. And I think, I think that's an interesting one. And I think that and I am gonna, I'm sorry, I'm starting to sound like a broken record now. The world is changing faster and faster all the time. Nobody expects me at my age to be the latest tick tock wizard. Couldn't just me, but my curiosity needs to be of a level where it's not an alien concept to me that I can understand. Because I think our curiosity again There's something that will only contribute to fueling new, interesting, groundbreaking ideas. And with so much that's going on at the moment. I mean, I'm fascinated. I don't know if you've spent much time looking at the kind of stuff that Elon Musk is doing around open AI. Yeah. Oh, my God. Just fantastic. is scary. I don't know if I know enough about it yet. I've been looking at it quite a lot recently. But I think the whole the whole, if you can say it can happen idea. Yeah. It's fascinating. Absolutely. But then it gets me to think about what does that mean for 21st century design? Well, I think he's got a lot of exciting possibilities. It just means that you know, being able to use Photoshop may not be your ultimate attribute in the next 10 years. Yeah, because that might be done by, by an algorithm.

Roy Sharples: 25:48

Great points. Tim. Creativity will continue to be the difference humans make in the future. Yes, intelligent technologies can increasingly expedite the majority of roles a human can. But the future workplace is where humans will work in unison with artificial intelligence or the technological equivalent. Robots have multiplied productivity and replaced humans in many work lines, freeing up humans to perform more creative and self fulfilling roles that have yet to be defined, which makes it even more exciting. What's your vision for the future of the creative industry and the role of creativity?

Tim Greenhalgh: 26:30

So I think that's going to be around fluidity. You know, I am asking my Executive Creative Directors and creative directors, and asking them to be nonspecific, increasingly nonspecific. What do I mean by that? Yes, they may have come up through the business has been the best graphic designers, the best interior designers, the best web designers, but now as creative directors, and now as leaders who are directing creativity, in a far more dynamic world that we live in, I want them to be wildly conceptual. And that actually what I'm looking for, and I think what we are going to see a lot more of these days, is that the idea will be the thing that carries much creativity through now, is that new? Well, of course, that's not new. Does it have a greater resonance these days? I think so. I think that, with so much that's happening in the world, and so much need for both brands to communicate clearly. And for the audience to understand really, the power of the idea and the power of storytelling is going to be really, really important. And I think that, that, you know, one of the things I've been looking at is, and I've been talking to some friends of mine who work in the education industry is to what extent that might be a rethinking of the curriculum. And some of the universities, you know, this idea that we should be encouraging as much critical thinking, education, as we are practical skills, education. But ultimately, I think I'll go back to where I started to just say, I think that I'm encouraging my team, the people I work with to be far more fluid in their approach. And I love that word. I think it's a it's a word to hold on to in terms of in terms of how they haven't come up with their conceptual ideas.

Roy Sharples: 28:21

Yes. Your point on instilling creativity, as a core discipline at the grassroots of the education curriculum, so that it's nurtured throughout the education system, which recognizes intelligence as multifaceted by embracing emotional and social intelligence, critical thinking, and practical problem solving by integrating science, arts and humanities as equal parts of the learning jigsaw. Just how soon is the future? One thing for sure, the future is unwritten, and everything is possible. Do you want to learn more about how to create by frontiers by unleashing your creative power? Then consider getting CREATIVITY WITHOUT FRONTIERS? How to make the invisible visible by lighting the way into the future. It's available in print, digital and audio on all relevant book platforms. You have been listening to the Unknown Origins podcast. Please follow subscribe, rate and review us. For more information go to unknownorigins.com - thank you for listening!