Ungovernable Women with Portia Mount
"Ungovernable Women" (formerly The Manifista) dives into the lives and careers of extraordinary women who have redefined success on their own terms. Each episode offers a glimpse into the journeys of trailblazing women who dare to lead audacious, purpose-driven lives and the lessons they learned along the way.
Ungovernable Women with Portia Mount
Releasing Perfectionism with L'Oreal Thompson Payton
Ever feel like you're wearing a mask of perfection, trying to outpace the haunting whispers of imposter syndrome while juggling ambition with the raw truth of who you are? L'Oreal Thompson Payton joins us to unravel these threads, sharing her journey from being a high-flying journalist to finding her authentic writing voice. Our conversation delves into the lived experiences of high-achieving women, as we navigate the pressures of ambition, the need for representation of Black women in media, and the challenging dance with imposter syndrome that accompanies a life in the public eye.
Have a question or comment? Email us at themanifista@gmail.com.
Portia Mount on LinkedIn
Tiffany Waddell Tate on LinkedIn
L'Oreal Thompson Payton on LinkedIn
L'Oreal Thompson Payton on Instagram
L'Oreal Thompson Payton's Website
Stop Waiting For Perfect
Kick Some Glass
Welcome to season four of the Manifesta podcast, a career and lifestyle podcast for aspiring women. I'm Portia Mount. Join me and my co-host, Tiffany Waddell-Tate, this season on our mission to help women find their purpose, lead high-impact careers, and live fulfilling personal lives by sharing the stories of women who've carved their own path to success. The future is female. Let's get started. Hello squad, we are going to be talking about the myth of the imposter syndrome and releasing perfectionism to embrace real confidence. So we've been talking about the curse of ambition and how it impacts women and knew that our amazing guests would be the best person to sit down and talk workplace tea with us.
Portia Mount:So today I'm so excited that we're welcoming L'Oreal Thompson Payton. She's an award-winning journalist, storyteller and speaker, and she is the author of the newly published Stop Waiting for Perfect. Step Out of your Comfort Zone and Into your Power. Squad. We will link to the book in the show notes so you can buy your copy. We will also share with you L'Oreal's Instagram handles, as well as her website, wwwltinthecitycom. L'oreal. Welcome. So great to have you here.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely so L'Oreal, let's just jump in. We have been Twitter friends now ex, but Twitter friends since before the pandemic and I just have so appreciated following you in the online space because you contribute and offer so much thought leadership around what it needs to be a freelancer gone corporate gone freelancer, author and now mom and I think all of us wear a ton of hats all the time but when I think about you and your brand voice, you have always struck me as deeply authentic and not afraid to be vulnerable in a very public way, and I thought, talking to you about this curse of ambition and what it needs to do good work, and do good work that's highly visible, and what it looks like behind the scenes in terms of your confidence and where sometimes aligns and sometimes doesn't, you came to mind when we were talking about this topic, and so I guess my first question is what do you think about the concept of a curse of ambition? How does that resonate with you?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:It resonates deeply. That is something that I feel like I have fallen victim to my entire life. I was the gifted and talented student. I skipped a grade, I was valedictorian of my eighth grade, class, honor roll, dean's List, so forth and so on. Like this list of accolades and accomplishments that I then turned to like identify a lot of my identity. You know, identified as this star student, straight A's and over achiever, highly ambitious. I set my mind to a goal and I accomplished it. I was always winning. And then you enter the real world. Well, in journalism, you still get, you still win, there's still awards and there's still these things to strive for, especially if you're not trying to climb the masshead and go from like lowly reporter to editor in chief. And that was the goal for me for a long time, my entire career.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Why I even got into journalism in the first place? When I was reading teen magazines back when I was in middle school. And you know this was the Britney and Christina era. No, not to date myself, but you know I'm a 90s, 2000s kid all the way and I didn't see myself represented in those pages right Like it was before. Beyonce was Beyonce. She was still in Destiny's Child. It's before Michelle was floated, it's before Black Girl Magic was trending, before Black Lives Matter was a movement, and so there wasn't this representation that we have today.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:And I recognized at an earlier age.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Like you know, I love writing, that is my gift, that is my superpower, that's how I know best to change the world.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:So let me use that for good and become editor in chief right of a teen magazine, because I believe that that time, that that was the only way or the best way to do that. And as I've gotten older and wiser, probably a lot more jaded in the journalism industry especially, I realized, you know, there's other ways to achieve that goal of you know, making representation, of helping Black women and girls in particular feel seen and heard and loved, then sacrificing myself and my mental health for a title, for the salary, for, you know, the paycheck that we presume comes along with that, Because, honestly, like, the closer I got to the top of that mess has, the more I realized, like yo, the editor in chief is, in a lot of meetings, boring. That's just not what I wanted to do. I want to write and that's all I've ever wanted to do since I was a little girl, and I'm very fortunate that that's what I get to do now.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:That's good. That's good. And also, please don't invite me to the meeting. When you get an email me, you know that part.
Portia Mount:Don't invite us, I don't want to be invited and I won't go. I was like, no, I do, I not want to be invited. Like, if you do invite me, I won't go. But by the way, lori, I will just say, having to interviewed lots of very successful women, they all say the same thing. They get to that top spot and they realize there's no there. There they're like, oh my god. I got there and I was like what in the world? This is not what I wanted at all.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:So yeah this ain't it.
Portia Mount:This ain't it so? Just meetings on meetings and problems on problems.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Right. So about early childhood, early arc of your career, it just hit in the athlete setting the ball hitting it. That resonates with me for sure. It also sounds really tiring, right Like to do all of this incredible work and hit the goals that you set for yourself, even if those goals change. But you know, I read this article that you wrote gosh, I don't remember what year now, but you were talking about just happening, your dope-ness, and it was a different take on this idea of imposter syndrome. So the first question is is imposter syndrome even real? And if it is, what exactly is it?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Yeah, this is controversial, right Like, I feel when I first discovered imposter syndrome so this is back in 2016, 2017, as far as like heard the name I'd always felt the feeling, but I didn't have the words and the language for it.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:And what I learned, you know, in that research from Susan Ims and Pauline Clance they studied a lot of middle class white women, college educated, so there's definitely some bias in the research. Most research, you know, there's nothing new there, but it talked about these high achieving women who still, you know, felt as though they weren't worthy, as if, you know, there was self-doubt around their accomplishments. They had the resume right, they had the receipts, but they still had the self-doubt. And that really resonated with me because, again, I had those accolades and the achievements and so forth, and I still felt a lot of that self-doubt. I still felt like an imposter in a lot of different spaces, especially when I changed careers, you know, from journalism to nonprofits, and that was a whole identity shift in crisis in and of itself. And what I realized in some more recent years is that two things can be true, right Like, imposter syndrome does exist, I do believe. You know, you cannot reduce or minimize someone's feelings, and so if they feel as though they have it, then they have it right.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:And racism, misogyny, sexism, ableism and all these other isms also exist and can perpetuate the imposter syndrome. And so I've heard and have had this debate with some other black women and it's like, yeah, that's great, I'm so happy for those of us who don't have it. That is amazing, and there's still some of us who do, and that's okay as well, like two things can exist. And so I feel as though that's been certainly the case in my life and career where I have felt this imposter syndrome and it has been heightened by being the only black woman in the room, oftentimes Like that certainly doesn't help the case. I think imposter syndrome gets even worse when you find that you're the only one who looks like you or identifies like you do, and any situation or space that you're in, and so I do think that it is true and I think that there are systemic barriers and places and oppression, et cetera, that help to intensify it and make it even worse.
Portia Mount:Yeah, yeah, lori on, I think I'm guessing you've read the same article that we have. There's an HBR article that came out next You're not too long ago, a couple of years, that basically said stop telling women they have the imposter syndrome. And they made the point exactly that you're pointing out that oftentimes it's the system, it's the organizational system that, for lack of a, you know, elegant way to say it, is not inclusive. Right, when we don't feel included, then we don't feel welcome, then we don't feel like we are and therefore we don't feel like we belong in that space, which exacerbates that feeling of like, oh my god, like, can I even do this job? Like, can I, am I even cut out for it, when we all know, as black women, we tend to be Overqualified for everything we have to have so much, so many more qualifications just to get in the door.
Portia Mount:So I appreciate that you've added that nuance, because that's I think that was a forgotten piece. I think, as we, you know, try to go to figure out like, why is this happening to us? I'd love for you to talk about how do you embrace your inner dupeness, because I love the flipping of the table on that. What does that mean? How do you do it? Give us this, give us the cheat code.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:For me it honestly came down to Making friends with your imposter syndrome and the book and stop waiting for perfect and, like fun fact, trust your dope. This was the original title of the book.
Portia Mount:Based on that article, yeah, your editor was like no, we can't do. That was it. Was it too urban? Was the thought was the title to what had happened.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:What had happened was none of us did our research, we didn't know. A global conglomerate, major global conglomerate owns the copyright. Mmm, I don't have major global conglomerate lawsuit money.
Portia Mount:Nobody does, nobody does darn it.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:No, buddy we had the rollerback and come up with you had to take a step back. Okay, okay, we have to take a step back. Come up the plan B, the original version. Trust your dope. This was inspired by my friend, melissa Kimball, who's the founder of hashtag black creatives amazing, phenomenal person, and she had given me this pep talk before a Twitter chat. Our IP, you know Twitter. I refuse to call it by its new name.
Portia Mount:We, we are, we are aligned. We do not use, we do not call it to the other name, we don't we don't, we will not speak. We won't speak of it.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Think of that name.
Portia Mount:Yeah, and don't, and do not know when. Dms, don't add us on this. That it's yeah, not a debate. We call it Twitter. It's Twitter, it's Twitter. Okay, it's Twitter.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:It's always gonna be. It's always gonna be Twitter forever forever Twitter forever forever.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:So there was this Twitter chat she invited me to be on. It was a panel about Black women and I think it was around a study that had to do with the like really high suspension rates of black girls in America in the school system, etc. So, yes, something you know very passionate about, and the other panelists was the head of a nonprofit for black girls and very beforehand I was like Melissa, I don't think I'm qualified, like I am not. You know, I haven't done the research. I'm not leading a nonprofit.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:I volunteered for the nonprofit but I wasn't, you know, at the head of the table and she gave me this really inspiring and pep talk that I still have the screenshot of to this day and still refer to and this is like six, eight years ago and Essentially was telling me to trust my darkness, trust your voice. You have a lot of gifts and value that you bring to the table, even if it doesn't look the same as the researcher or the Executive director of the nonprofit like you, still your voice matters, your story matters, you still have something that is worthy to share and, as I have gone on since then, I started to look at Imposter syndrome as kind of a good thing, for me at least, because it means that I'm leveling up Somehow in my career, in my personal life. I'm stepping outside of that comfort zone, right, because that's when imposter syndrome shows up for me the most.
Portia Mount:Yes, when I'm trying something new.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:I'm doing something different, something I've never done before, something that is Requiring a lot out of me, and something new. And so it's kind of like, okay, this is new, this is scary, and this is different and I am capable, I am smart. You know, I have done hard things before and this is just, you know, a Reminder that, okay, we've outgrown that comfort zone and I think that that is a sign. Looking at imposter syndrome as, like this, sign of growth and the. We all know that the magic happens Outside of that comfort zone. So imposter syndrome is, for me, I'm kind of like reframing the narrative and like, okay, this is good because it means that we're leveling up and that is necessary for Success, for growth, to, you know, like, do all the ambitious things that I have in mind. It is going to be uncomfortable and make me, you know, doubt myself, but I have to push through in order to get to the other side.
Portia Mount:Oh, I love that, I love that reefer, I love that reframe and I love the, the framework of Imposter syndrome as a signifier that you're going outside of your comfort zone and therefore it's a good. It's a good thing. Wow, I think that's gonna resonate with so many members of the squad L'Oreal. I want to zero in on this kind of issue of perfection. You know a perfectionism and you, you know we start at the top of this conversation. We'll be talking about being the, a student, right and like. I think that's super relatable to. I like to call myself a recovering Overachiever and I know a lot of women who you know they're self-professed recovering Perfectionists and but you know, if you work to corporate America especially, you quickly learn that being perfect rarely if ever. Okay, I'm just gonna go say never gets you promoted and never gets you like the best assignments, it never gets you the best of anything. It just doesn't work. So I'm just curious, you know, why are so many of us struggling with perfectionism? What is going on?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:And it's really funny that you mentioned the promotion in particular, because that is without giving too much away, but in recently leaving, you know, the newsroom and going back to full-time Freelance writing, as Tiffany mentioned earlier, because I had that aha moment. Finally, like I got the performance review was going after the promotion Was promised. The promotion hit all the metrics, exceeded the goals and the KPIs and the page views and Still only got met expectations. The math wasn't math in like right. I'm like how does one exceed the goals and still only? And that's when I realize it's never going to be enough. No, never going to be enough. They are constantly going to raise the bar and move the goalpost and I Can work my ass off and it's not going to be enough. And then, in the course of because again, recovery and perfectionist, overachiever, highly ambitious, like my default setting is do the most. Yes, I don't know any other way of being guilty as charged as charged.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Then guilty.
Portia Mount:As you need a support club. We do, we do. We're gonna start a whole community of do the most, but even when you're asked doesn't need to be doing the most.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:That's what that's.
Portia Mount:That's what that's what we're gonna call this canoe tag line. Go sit down, go just go lay down somewhere, don't do them up, stop Okay.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Have all the seats.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:I have all the seats yes, I've seats, yes, and my therapist over the summer was like I'm starting to see, I'm starting to notice some depressive symptoms, mmm, and the journalist in me, of course, was like what do you mean by that? And so some of the symptoms were fatigue, irritability there's a fancy word for this that I don't remember and it begins with an A but it was like not finding pleasure in the things that you used to enjoy. But it was like check, check, check. And the thing for me, the breaking point, was Not having the energy to play with my daughter when she got home from daycare.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Mmm, because, listen, we and those who are familiar with my journey know, but those who aren't like, we went through a lot to have her multiple rounds of IVF and Fail cycles and trends, all of these things. So a lot of time, energy and money Just call it like it is Went into having this kid, and now I don't have the energy to play with you and you get home after you've been at daycare all day and there is, you know, like feelings around that as well, because you know, you, mom, guilt is a israel.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:It's real and I was absolutely this is not worth it and that's not the example that I want to set for her right. Because we've all heard it. We saw the scandal episode. The you know work twice as hard to get half as much has been like the black girl mantra. Daddy, papa Pope forever right. He laid it in he spoke the truth.
Portia Mount:I did it just like it broke us all down. I remember how we were all on Twitter talking about it the next day like, oh my god a collective drag.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:All of us, all of us, and it's like why I'm in it I didn't sleep with the president, like, why do you have to come for me?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:right, exactly, it's just attacking, attacking us. Yeah, so rude and so truthful and so honest. And that is the mentality that I was raised with, that my mom was raised with how she, you know, distilled that into me and my sister and it was a survival mechanism for black people, black women. And I want better, I want different for my daughter. I don't want her to have to Play into that lie and that myth, because that's the thing like you can work twice as hard, three times as hard, four times as hard, and it's not going to get you the promotion, is not going to guarantee success, it won't get you the six-figure salary.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Like, so let's do it by our own rules. Like let's make our own way, let's live a softer life where we're not as stressed, because that has a toll on our physical health, our mental health, as I learned, you know, the hard way over the summer. And so I want to model for her a different way and that's my Accountability, that's my legacy, like and so I want, I don't want to pass on the overwork and the trauma and the depression and the anxiety and all of that onto her. So I have to choose and live a different way for her to see what's possible.
Portia Mount:I I love that so much. Lori at L'Oreal.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:How do you step into that space where 80% or less is good enough for you If you've been tearing perfection on the inside?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:yeah, that's been a work in progress and I have a mentor, kyra Kyle's, and I love dearly, and she was one of the first people to tell me that she's like listen, your 60%, 80% is someone else's, 100, 120%, like that's just how I'm wired. Yeah, so I don't have to, I don't have to do the most, and Getting out of my own way. And writing the book was a lesson in humility first and foremost, and also I'm learning perfection, because it's like, okay, these things don't go together. Parenting and perfection don't mix, like that was a really early wake-up call. They do not like it just don't go together, never have and never will. And so what am I even trying to do there?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:And then in writing the book, it was like coming up on the deadline for that first draft and I was just like this ain't ready, this isn't perfect, right, because again, that pressure, I'm a black woman in publishing, so I have to make sure that I'm showing up and I'm perfect so that other black women get opportunities. And you know the whole first, only different thing that Shonda Rhimes talks about and not that I'm the first, only different you know one to get a publishing contract, but like there aren't a lot of us, and so the publishers, the bookstores and everybody use those numbers and how our books sell yeah, in order to determine, you know, future contracts for myself, other writers etc. So a lot of that pressure I put on myself and it was like, no, this isn't, this, isn't it? Like the first draft is not meant to be perfect, like Anne Lamont writes about the shitty first draft.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:That's real, that's just, it is what it is like. Get it down on the paper and stop trying to do my job and my editor's job, like her job, is to help me make it sound good and read better. So let me let her do her job and let me focus on doing my job. And the thing that really drove that home for me One of the few times I was sitting in a coffee shop working on the book A lot of it was written in the notes app in the nursery at two, four o'clock in the morning when I was breastfeeding my daughter when she was a newborn Was just like. I saw this tweet that said you can edit bad, but you can't edit nothing so well.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:I've got a point on the paper and we can make it better. We can make it better, but I have to get it out there and just realizing and accepting and believing that Done is better than perfect, mmm, because you can always, always go back, I mean, well, now the book is published, so you know so you can't go back. I wish I could change, but I can't go back to that. But you know, maybe if it gets a second edition or something like that, but the thing claiming that out there and it's reaching people.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Yeah, thank you, it's reaching the people it needs to reach and that's because I got of my out of my own way and didn't let you know Perfect be the enemy of good, and that is really really crucial. To do anything artistic or creative, but like to create anything at all. Period done is better than perfect.
Portia Mount:I Remember Following you and I were not Twitter friends like you and Tiffany, but now we now we're gonna be Twitter friends.
Portia Mount:Yes, I remember following your story of trying to have have your daughter and as someone who went through a lot of fertility issues as well, and like, and then I remember feeling so Trampled for you when you finally had her, because you brought people along and your vulnerability and sharing your story and, I think, sharing the like, even sharing the issues around depression, and Part of what I love is that you're doing and so you know, you and other amazing black women are telling this other side of our story, which is the story of we do not have to carry the whole world on our shoulders, we don't have to pretend like we have it all together. And my question for you is you know, in thinking about this book, that you've burned. This is your other baby and you put into the world.
Portia Mount:Are there a couple of just really Key things you want Readers to take away? Like there's a lot in this book. I was skimming it, I just got it, so I was skimming it, but I'm going to read it over the holidays. But are there a couple things were like, if you take away nothing else, what is it you want your readers to? To feel, see, think, do as a result of reading your book?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:to take comfort in the fact that you are enough as you are right now showing up. You know, imperfectly, perfect, right. There is a lot of pressure that we put on ourselves as women, especially women of color, black women more than any other. I feel like to have it all together and you don't. You don't need to have it all together. That is not any kind of marker indication of how worthy you are or the type of person that you are and what you need and deserve from the world. And asking for help honestly.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:That was one of the chapters that I talk about in that it takes a village we talk all the time. It takes a village to raise a kid and I'm finding every single day. It takes a village also to raise a mom, to raise the parents and I was so raised to be independent. Be the strong black woman. Have it together. I'm the one who helps everyone else. Right?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:I don't need help because that's a sign of weakness, that's a sign of vulnerability, and I reached a breaking point last year, about a year or so after her daughter was born, where it was just like it had shit hit it the fan. It was just like I can no longer pretend. I can no longer do this on my own. I need help. I need to not only ask for help but get comfortable receiving the help, and that part, I think, will be a little bit trickier, more than ever to let people in, to be vulnerable and to admit that I can't do this on my own. And that's okay. Social media is a lie. Everything else, there's a lot out there, there's a lot of noise. So the biggest takeaways you are enough, you do not have to be perfect, you can show up as you are and it is okay to ask and receive help when you get it.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Drag me. You really just dragged me a little bit. What's up? It's okay to receive that help.
Portia Mount:Receive it, tiffany, receive it.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:I'm like on my neck because I think something that we do as women, as Black women especially, is we will affirm other women on the street. You know like you look amazing. You killed that presentation. I love the way that you pulled this together. Can you teach me how to do X, y and Z, because you know I'm not great at this? We have an entire culture online where I can find a different influencer or thought leader for whatever it is. I'm trying to learn that looks like me now. Thank you to the internet.
Portia Mount:Yes, thank you, beyonce's internet.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:I was literally thinking that.
Portia Mount:Yes, thank you to Beyonce. Thank you to Beyonce and Beyonce's internet.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Yes, and as I like to say, my birthday twin. Thank you to Beyonce.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Now you're just showing off.
Portia Mount:I mean just I was wondering when she was going to slip in that she and Beyonce share a birthday Because let me just tell you L'Oreal I am tired of the information.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:It comes up often, Often often how does it feel to be God's favorite it?
Portia Mount:does I know right, right, exactly exactly.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:It's so easy for us to tell other people how bomb they are. You're enough, you're killing it, keep going. And yet it is so difficult to turn that energy inward. And it's like I don't know. I don't know that I've gotten it right, but I really appreciate you saying that and just reminding us that we're good, it's OK and like you're 60%, you're 50% is 10, the next person Right.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Like it is.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:We're good Facts.
Portia Mount:I needed to hear that today. We need to hear it every single day, tiffany, and you know, loria, tiffany and I were having a chat earlier and we were just talking about how, as black women and you referenced this we get used to fixing everything. We will fix the broken things. We are being asked to fix democracy right now and I love that.
Portia Mount:Women, black women- again, again again again Because we did trigger, because, yeah, I know I know, it's like I just unlocked a core memory, I know, but the only way that we stop doing that is we stop doing that. We say we are not doing that Right, and so I and it's all in my mind. This is all intertwined with what you're saying around this perfection and feeling, you know, feeling like we have the obligation to do that. No, we don't. We can just go and lay our asses down. We could just go lay down.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Listen, just go lay down. And there's about this time last year, right after Thanksgiving, we were in Hawaii with my family and hiking diamond head, which I've hiked before. No big deal Did it before. I could do it again. A lot different with the 20-some-pound toddler strap in my back right. We're going up.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:You're like hey, this baby is so heavy, this baby is so heavy, Listen, and we're at the next, like at the next to last, Like I can see the top. I can see the top of the volcano and old L'Oreal would have pushed through because that's my default mode.
Portia Mount:It's like push through, push through, push through. Suffer yes.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Because you set a goal, you have to reach it. No matter what we have to do, the goal we have to. We have to cross it off the list. And what I'm starting to pay more attention to is my body, like when my brain is saying push through. That's actually my body being like press pause. And I turned my butt around, found my family, gave the baby to my sister, took a breath, drank a lot of water, and then I turned to her. And because I remember in that moment my therapist telling me like when you find yourself in these challenging situations, I want you to think what would you want Violet to do? And then do that. So I turned to her. Mind you, she had just turned one. She's looking at me but not really comprehending. But I'm like mommy's tired right now and it's important that we listen to our body and honor our boundaries and rest when we need to. And she's just like okay, but where are my snacks?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Like looking at me, but not really. But it was important for me to tell her why and to model that self-care and that rest and that softness and that that is strength too, 100%, 100%.
Portia Mount:And I love that. You've used the word softness a couple of times here and I love you know, I love the whole soft girl, soft woman, ease. I love that that language is becoming normalized for us as black women. I think we need to talk, I think we need and we need, especially people who are in your role to normalize that broadly, because that is not part of our vernacular. We are about grindhouse. You know we have been about grindhouse. Get it done, do everything for everyone and not ourselves. So I absolutely want to like underscore how important it is that you're talking about that.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Because we deserve rest too. We deserve the soft life and, yes, life a luxury. But when I think of the softness, I'm thinking of Trisha Hersey and the Nat Ministry and Rest as. Resistance. Rest being a revolution Like that's the kind of softness. Now, don't get me wrong, I want the luxury too, right because I do.
Portia Mount:I definitely want that because I'm kind of bougie Royals. So I will just say I want all of those things.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:All of it. Yes, she's very bougie. She's very bougie actually.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Not Tiffany coming in with us.
Portia Mount:I know like I was gonna say like Tiffany, you might want to sit this one out, so funny. Yes.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:What.
Portia Mount:Anyway, anyway, let's re-diagress. We digress, moving on, moving on. We digress.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Well, L'Oreal, you've kind of mentioned, you know, this concept of honoring your body, listening to your body, setting a boundary, asking for help, receiving help, reminding yourself that you're good enough. Are there any other practical tips you would encourage for someone who's trying to trust their dope-ness, combat perfectionism and allow themselves to be fully human, instead of these like high-achieving robots, Like what would you encourage people to do? Just daily small things that you do?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:One of the exercises that I include in the book and there's a template as well is writing this breakup letter to your inner critic, because we all have one, unless you're, you know, cisgender, heterosexual, white man. I'm just saying Bike drop, bike drop Elon Musk. I mean what. We all have an inner critic. I don't think EM does. No, he absolutely. Well, that was, you've seen the tweet. That's like some people need imposter syndrome, Just saying, I'm just saying, Just saying.
Portia Mount:I'm just saying.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:So, for you know, the rest of us who do have this inner critic, that negative voice right that's constantly telling you you're not good enough, you don't deserve to be here. What are you doing? Naming that critic, confronting them head-on. Name my negative Nancy. I like alliteration, but I've done this exercise in a couple of different workshops and the names that people come up with are very creative. There's, like there was an antagonistic Angela, pessimistic Pedro, like I was. Like oh, I have to, I might have to rethink my, my critic's name, but anyway, writing a letter to your critic, and for me it started with gratitude because I recognized that she was trying to keep me safe. She's like girl I want to do out here, embarrassing yourself, embarrassing us, like we, I like the comfort zone, let's stay in the comfort zone. We know the comfort zone and I'm like thank you, I appreciate what you are trying to do and now it's time for you to. You know, take a backseat. I'm in the driver's wheel now, like I'm in control and I've got this and doing that as many times as you need to Like. You know, it sounds very like woo-woo in theory, but in practice, especially in a group setting, like if y'all had a little book club and you decided to do it together and then read your letters aloud.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:There is so much power in reclaiming that you know just doing away with that voice, reclaiming your powers. What I was trying to say earlier and just kind of pushing that negativity to the side and not saying that it never comes up again. I think that's the other thing with imposter syndrome, self doubt and a lot of this inner negativity is that you know it might dwindle down for a little bit in society, like while your new level becomes your new comfort zone, but then when you edge out of that and you level up again it's gonna come bubbling back up to the surface and so you'll need to do this exercise again. And I'm also a big fan of affirmations, guided meditations. Leila Delia has a really good one on Insight Timer about reclaiming your power. That I listened to on the regular and it's just really powerful, very grounding exercise and just kind of reminds you of the badass that you are.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:I listened to it before doing the interview for my first cover story ever that I recently wrote when I was switching careers two times over. As Tiffany mentioned, I've done a lot of back and forth, so it's just really finding those things that help remind you of your power and your strength in doing them on a regular basis. It's like maintenance for your confidence.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Yeah, I don't know what I would call my inner critic.
Portia Mount:I'm gonna come up with that. That's good. I'm sure mine is like Judy McJudgy. That's my inner critic. Judy McJudgy, I like that. Yeah, judy McJudgy.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Judy McJudgy.
Portia Mount:Judy McJudgy. So L'Oreal. This is one of our favorite parts of our pod interviews. The Squad loves these. It's our lightning around.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:I wish I had a little musical thing going on.
Portia Mount:But first question for you in Lightning Round is what's your favorite motto or phrase that best defines your mindset?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Yeah, maya Angelou has this quote as she says that success is liking yourself, liking what you do and liking how you do it. And that's my guiding light and principle.
Portia Mount:And like if I can check all these three boxes.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:We're doing good, I love that.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:OK, you are accepting a huge award. What is your walk-on song?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:I really tried to distill this down to just one, but it's a three-way tie with Run the World Girls Formation and Diva, more Beyonce.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Ok, all Beyonce, all Beyonce.
Portia Mount:You are on it. Did you know that Tiffany was born on Beyonce's birthday? L'oreal Do you know they share a birthday? Did you know that Tiffany and Beyonce share a birthday? Did you know that? Anyway, I love Run the World, by the way.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:I still walk that song on my playlist.
Portia Mount:I love Run the World. It's just like it hypes you up. That is a great and Diva, it helps you up. These are all great walk-on songs. I love that. I love it, love it Love it, Love it yeah we're going to be making a podcast playlist. We're going to make a playlist. Yeah, we're making a Spotify playlist, which is going to be super fun. So what is one book besides your own, besides your own, that you find yourself recommending or gifting on the regular?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert, and I reread it every. January, and it's fun because our covers look very similar Like. When I first saw the cover for mine, it reminded me of hers, but for any creative, any artist, it's just a really good reminder of the power that you have and why your creativity matters and it's important to nurture it. So that's my repeat read every January.
Portia Mount:Right on, right on.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:OK, what's the best purchase under 150 bucks you've ever made?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Under $150. I'm trying to remember if my Apple Watch was under $150.
Portia Mount:It was not. I can't live without this thing. Your Apple Watch is not less than $150.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:But it's like three versions ago, so I'm trying to think about it. If you have an, Apple Watch one L'Oreal.
Portia Mount:Are you sure it was a real?
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Apple and not a bootleg.
Portia Mount:If it was not a bootleg.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Apple was from Costco, so I guess it could be Everyone's like.
Portia Mount:where can we get these $150 Apple Watches? I'm sorry.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:That sounds like I don't remember. I don't. I feel like there's some app. No, I take this back. Therapy Notebook by Simple Self. I just bought it and have been using it in just four sessions so far, and it has made my therapy sessions even more productive, because that's the kind of person I am, who likes to be productive about therapy.
Portia Mount:Are you a Virgo as well?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:No, I'm a Scorpio, so OK, I'm a little sultry, you're a little sultry.
Portia Mount:She's like super cool. I'm very organized and productive. I love it. I love it. Ok, so L'Oreal. Now this is a safe space for this next question. What's a secret, unpopular opinion that you hold?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Oh, I'm trying to think if I have anything super controversial. I'm pretty Basic in that regard because I I love, like, pumpkin spice.
Portia Mount:That's not controversial, but in like I do like pumpkin pie, because that is no, absolutely Right here.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Wait, what's wrong with pumpkin pie?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:There's nothing if you're, you know okay.
Portia Mount:So some of our squad may not know, because you know our squad is very diverse, but squad Black people typically do not eat pumpkin. It is in like we just don't eat it. So Except for Tiffany Tiffany clearly is about to make a confession here that she likes pumpkin pie. But this is just. This is just a thing of like. We don't eat pumpkin pie, it's sweet potatoes, sweet potato pie. For us, sweet potato pie. Yeah, so it would be and highly unpopular opinion among black people anyway, if you ate Pumpkin pie, I think Kevin on stage Kevin had on stage had a whole thing on thanks during Thanksgiving about eating, like eating pumpkin pie secretly.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Yeah, oh I, but it's the thing I like pumpkin lattes, the Pancakes movies, everything but the pie.
Portia Mount:Okay, that's extreme.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:That's a lot of pumpkin.
Portia Mount:But that's not unpopular, I don't think All right.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:Okay, last question what's a hobby you have? That would surprise most people who know you. I.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Had thought about this one. I don't know that there's anything surprising, but a little known fact that other people who don't know me Wouldn't know is that I was unanimously voted in miscongeniality and a regional pole fitness competition Back in 2013.
Portia Mount:Did you say pole? Pole fitness, as in like being on the pole.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Mm-hmm, I like to look at that. I'm a show by one day. Be like your mom was a baddie back in the day. Did you take like?
Portia Mount:pole, like I'm, by the way, I have to say, when I watched P Valley, which was an amazing series, a Directed the credit, I don't know show runner, a black woman. These women are athletes like it is. Unbelievable just how strong and flexible they are. Did you take Classes and things like that?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Oh yeah, yeah, I was obsessed. I was in the studio like ever and, honestly, best workout I've ever done. Everyone who knows me now is like, aren't you about that Peloton life? Yes, and before then I was, I was a pole girly. It's the instill, the best workout ever, and it's like more than the physical part. Yeah, it was like women of every background, body type, like there was a 60-some-year-old grandma one of my classes Doing tricks and spins that I could never and so it was just wow, a good confidence booster. Like the energy was so good. I highly recommend.
Portia Mount:Always wanted to do a pole class because, let me just tell you, I could just imagine myself like hanging on for dear life and some little struggle heels trying to get up that pole.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:It's a lot of core, it's a bear, it's a full body workout, but it's there's a lot of core involved as well.
Portia Mount:I had a C-section. I do not have the core. I'm sure I don't have the core for for pole, but I. Really. But I'm super impressed by F1. I'm like incredibly impressed that you've done this and I'm, like I said, these women, in my view, are athletes. It, just it, just the agility and flexibility they have. So that's. That is super cool. Where did you do your pole dancing classes?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:exposed fitness. When I was back in Baltimore and when I moved to Chicago, I was at Flirty girl, which is since closed down, which was really sad, and that's kind of what led me to Peloton. Anyways, because my studio closed and okay which it was just really. It was really sad moment. I I miss those girls a lot because we had such a good thing going so that's awesome.
Portia Mount:I follow a few pole dancers on Instagram and they are. They're amazing and you're right. Like all the different body types of women who Do, it is pretty amazing. Yeah, l'oreal, it has been such a pleasure to have you on the pod. Thank you, we want ever. We're gonna be linking to your book and to your website and you have any any upcoming speaking events for 2024? You do you have like full slate of speaking events and where can people like come in here you speak, if you know, in the new year?
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Yeah, there's a couple of local ones and then some different organizations that I'm gonna be speaking, I, but I'm like Northwestern 11th Evanston and so they're Delta chapter, actually inviting you to speak or doing like a book club with it and, yeah, more to come. So, as always, follow me on social media L team the city and my weekly newsletter at L team the city, comm, and I drop all of the, so the things there and I'm all gonna teaching yoga and starting next year to finally making good on the training that I did back at the height of the pandemic. So I'm excited to Wait into those waters as well.
Portia Mount:That's awesome. You, I love that you're so multi-faceted to you and, and you know, just I think, thank you for your vulnerability and for cheering your journey and I hope that the squad listening really just internalizes these messages that you've shared, because we just we have the ability to Be more than ourselves in a way that we define for ourselves. I think is really powerful and you, you, sharing your journey, I think it's shown how like one, one path for doing that. So just appreciate you so much for for that.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Thank you, thank you both for having me. This was so much fun. I love the laughter and know now that Tiffany and Beyonce share a birthday. Oh gosh.
Portia Mount:Don't blow her head up anymore. L'oreal because we are very tired of it. No we let we love Tiffany and we love and we definitely love beyond, we definitely love Beyonce.
Tiffany Waddell Tate:So we are, we are definitely yeah, yes, we don't want the high coming after us. Okay, we do not want the high.
Portia Mount:I'm like dude, we don't want the high, we do not want the smoke. I'm just gonna say we don't want the high smoke at all. So, l'oreal Thompson Peyton, thank you so much for joining us and we look forward to having you back for your next book as well. So thank you for being just like being, such a wonderful ray of light for us. So we appreciate you.
L'Oreal Thompson Payton:Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Thanks for all the things.
Portia Mount:Thanks for listening to the manifesta podcast. Our sound designer and audio engineer is Nina Pollock of Nina Pollock sound. Our Social media manager is destiny Iker. Have a question, comment or topic for our next episode? Email us at the manifesta at gmailcom. Be sure to rate, review and subscribe to our show on Apple podcast, spotify or wherever you listen to your pods. Your ratings help other listeners find us. And don't forget to follow us on Instagram at the manifesta and tiktok at the dot manifesta pod. See you next time.