Business of Endurance

The Ultramarathon Man Revealed: Endurance and Inspiration with Dean Karnazes

• Charlie Reading • Season 7 • Episode 10

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Welcome to another episode of The Business of Endurance Podcast, where we dive deep into the minds and lives of the world’s most inspiring endurance athletes. Today, I’m thrilled to have a true legend in the world of ultrarunning—Dean Karnazes. Known as the "Ultramarathon Man," Dean has not only redefined the limits of human endurance but has inspired millions with his remarkable stories and insights. In this episode, Dean opens up about the mental and physical strategies that have powered him through some of the world’s most gruelling races. We explore his evolution in race nutrition, tackling post-race blues, and balancing the demands of ultrarunning with family life. Whether you're an aspiring ultrarunner or looking for inspiration to push through life’s challenges, Dean’s wisdom on health, longevity, and mental resilience will leave you motivated to conquer your own limits. Get ready for an unforgettable conversation!

Highlights:

  • Dean's First Ultra Marathon Experience
  • Proudest Achievements & Evolution of Ultra Running
  • Nutrition Strategies for Extreme Environments
  • Dealing with Post-Race Blues
  • Balancing Training and Family Life
  • Cultural Experiences Through Running
  • The Significance of the Western States 100
  • Mental Strategies for Endurance
  • Reflections on the Olympics


Links:
Click here for additional helpful content mentioned in this episode.
Connect with Dean Karnazes on Instagram & LinkedIn & Web.

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Speaker 1:

I'm Charlie Redding and I'm Claire Fudge.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to the Business of Endurance.

Speaker 3:

Don't think about how much further you've got to go. Don't think about the past. Don't think about how miserable you are.

Speaker 2:

Welcome to another episode of the Business of Endurance podcast, where we dive into the minds and lives of the world's most inspiring endurance athletes. Today I am thrilled to have a true legend in the world of ultra running on board, and that is Dean Karnasas. So Dean is known as the ultramarathon man not to his particular liking, but that was the name of his first book. As the ultramarathon man not to his particular liking, but that was the name of his first book. And Dean has not only redefined the limits of human endurance, but he's inspired millions of people with his remarkable stories and insights. In this episode, dean opens up about the mental and physical strategies that have powered him through some of the world's most grueling races, challenges and adventures. We explore the evolution in his race nutrition right back to basics at the start, to much more strategic, tactical nutrition. Nowadays we talk about tackling the post-race blues, which he suffered with a lot at the start and he's now much more attuned to dealing with them. And we we talk about balancing the demands of ultra running with family life.

Speaker 2:

And if you don't know about Dean, dean runs literally hundreds of miles. He's won races like the Badwater Ultra, which is 120 mile ultra marathon through Death Valley, basically the hottest place on earth. He's run marathons to the South Pole. He's finished in the top 10 Western states more than 10 times. His running CV is off the chart. He ran 50 marathons in 50 days in 50 states. He's run Silk Road ultras. Honestly, you name it. Dino Karnasas has done it, or Karno as he affectionately known.

Speaker 2:

So whether you're an inspiring ultra runner or looking for inspiration to push through life's challenges, dean's wisdom on health, longevity and mental resilience will help get you motivated to conquer your own limits to get ready for an unforgettable conversation with Dean Karnasas. One of the things that Dean is going to touch on in this episode is what he calls the BHAG, which is the Big Hairy Audacious Goal, and if you stay around till the end, I'll give you something that will help you achieve your BHAG your Big Hairy Audacious Goal. Dean, welcome to the Business of Endurance podcast. I'm so looking forward to this chat. I've loved your books, laughing out loud, listening to them while training, so I know this is going to be a cracking conversation, but I always like to start with the inspiring story For you. The story that I picked up from Ultramarathon man was that first run, and for those people who haven't heard that story. You know why did you start running on your 30th birthday and why did you keep going.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean I'll digress a little bit earlier in my life. I used to love to run when I was a kid. Some of my earliest childhood recollections were running home from kindergarten and I ran competitively until high school, at 15, we won the cross-country championships and I thought that's as far as I'll take my running career. So I stopped running at 15. Fast forward to my 30th birthday. A couple of university degrees later, a business degree, comfortable corporate job in San Francisco, and I'm in a nightclub on my 30th birthday celebrating At midnight. I told them I was leaving. They said why? It's your 30th birthday. Let's have another round of tequila to celebrate. And I told them no, I'm going to run 30 miles to celebrate. They said but you're not a runner, you're drunk. I said I am, but I'm still going to do it.

Speaker 3:

And I literally walked out of the bar, just humiliated with my life as a businessman, even though I was successful. I just wasn't happy and I started stumbling drunkenly into the night, heading south, knowing there was a town called Half Moon Bay 30 miles away. I thought run there tonight, set your sights on that and that'll be an accomplishment. I sobered up about 10 miles down the road and I thought what the hell are you doing? This is crazy. But something felt right. I kept going and I made it. It wasn't pretty, some blistering and chafing, but I made it 30 miles and I decided that next morning that I was going to become a long distance runner, quit my corporate job and dedicate myself to running. And that was three decades ago.

Speaker 2:

And since that time you have done the most incredible amount of running. There's no point in me trying to work out where to start in terms of which ones to pick, so I suppose the question I'll ask is which do you think is your most proud achievement in your running career? Which one of those incredible events challenges, races do you put at the top of your roster?

Speaker 3:

you know, I've run on all seven continents twice. I've run across the hottest place on earth, death Valley, and I've run a marathon to the South Pole, the coldest place on earth. But I think running 50 marathons in 50 states in 50 consecutive days was probably the most difficult challenge and perhaps the most rewarding, because there was no blueprint for doing it. It had never been done before. Figuring out logistically how to do it, how to get sponsors to help cover the cost. This is back in 2006. So it kind of set in motion this idea of taking on these self-conceived challenges. Now you have people doing all kinds of crazy events that are outside of competition but nonetheless challenging and rewarding.

Speaker 2:

You're right. There is so much going on now. Obviously, the world of ultra running has changed massively since you started. What are the things that are still in ultra running that were then and that are dear to your heart, and what's the unexpected new thing in ultra running that you also love that wasn't there when you started.

Speaker 3:

The challenge and the expansion of what you conceive as possible is expanded when you run an ultra marathon. I live in the world of ultra marathoning and I just think everyone knows about ultra marathoning but they don't. And you know, when someone hears you ran a hundred continuous miles, they can't wrap their head around it, like I couldn't wrap my head around it when I heard about a hundred mile foot race the first time. So I think that thrill of doing the impossible is still there. It's certainly become a more competitive sport. Since I started the numbers have grown exponentially. So the growth of ultra marathoning is blown my mind. It's still a relatively small base when you compare it to marathoning or running in general, but it's more commonplace.

Speaker 3:

The word ultramarathon or ultramarathoning is more prevalent in the everyday lexicon. You read about it in the paper once in a while, so there's a greater understanding of ultramarathoning in the general public. The demographic has shifted, which I, like you, know. When I first got into it it was primarily men and now it's about 40, 60 men and women. You look around and think this person doesn't look fit. There's no way they're going to run 50 miles or 100 kilometers. But what I've learned it's more up here in the head there's people that are not wanting the podium, not even mid-pack, but just to make it. Their goal is just I want to finish this race. And then they're slow and and steady and they do it.

Speaker 1:

I think it's amazing to see so many different types of people from different backgrounds now actually taking part in these events. As you've seen, things evolve over time with the events. How has your nutrition changed over that time? Because it sounds like the first 30 miles you ever did, potentially fueled by beer and tequila. So how has that fueling strategy changed over time?

Speaker 3:

I mean that's a good question. You know, the first time I ran 200 miles it was a 12-person relay race but I just signed up as one person. I told them I didn't have 11 friends left. So you know, famously in the middle of the night I was alone and hungry. I had a cell phone and a credit card. I ordered pizza delivered to me as I was running and I ate a whole pizza. I rolled it up into a big burrito log of pizza and ate it. I just thought early on. I just thought calories were calories. Just get in as many calories as you can. It was just a numbers game Burning 10, 20, 30,000 calories. Just consume that amount in whatever form. I've now become much more precise about the types of calories carbohydrates, fats, protein, simple sugars, complex sugars, branched chain amino acids so I've become much more sophisticated and scientific. As far as fueling During these really long runs, longer than 24 hours I'm still having pizza. I still love solid food and it's a mix now of sports nutrition and food I love to eat while I'm running.

Speaker 1:

I think that mixture is important, isn't it? From a gut training perspective? How did you manage in extreme environments, from extremely hot desert environments to very, very cold temperatures? How did your nutrition change in those environments the hot climates? I tend to eat a very cold temperatures. How did your nutrition change in those environments?

Speaker 3:

The hot climates I tend to eat a lot more salt, so a lot more electrolytes with sodium, potassium, magnesium and chloride, whether those are through supplements or whether those are from food sources definitely more salty food. My nutrition is more liquid-based. In hot climates. I tend to have more GI issues when the weather's warm and that's especially true when it's humid. Running across Death Valley, it's the hottest place on earth. It's relatively dry, which is challenging in its own right, but then when I run in humid places, that's a difficult challenge as well. So I try to take in more liquid calories, as much sodium as I can, to keep things moving through my GI tract.

Speaker 3:

One of the biggest problems with hot climates and running is you take in a lot of calories but your body shuts down, your digestive system shuts down, so everything stays in your stomach. You hear runners talking about that all the time. No matter what I had, it was sloshing around in my stomach and that's usually because one you're overheated, like your core temperature's too high. So I tell people that not just chew on ice, but if there's ice available on the course, to swallow whole pieces of cool down your stomach and let things move through. So that's a trick I've learned for hot climates. For cold climates I tend to probably eat twice as many calories as I'm burning. My body just goes into a sort of shock, because not only do you have the output from the endurance sport you're doing, your body's trying to compensate for the cold. I don't have much body fat, so I just know that it'll load up my calories when I'm doing cold weather races.

Speaker 2:

I laugh as you say you haven't got much body fat. There was a point in your book where I laughed out loud because you were talking about the harsh weather conditions in your living room and the fortune of being sponsored by North Face for keeping you warm in your house. So actually I'm going to race out in Kona, hawaii, later on this year. And you talking about that amazing advice from a digestion point of view for heat. Are there any other tips that you have for training or racing somewhere that's really hot when you can't train in that heat?

Speaker 3:

when you said kona the thing there you do an iron man. Absolutely bravo, bravo, yeah the congratulations. That's on my list. I've done ironman distance triathlons but never kona. It's kind of like the boston marathon. Like anyone worth their weight in Ironman needs to do Kona.

Speaker 3:

Claire's done Kona and I've got it going, so you'll have to come join us Well, yeah, I mean, claire knows a lot of the tricks and you see a lot of the racers. They know what to do. The one thing I don't like is a lot of sun hitting my skin. Even with sun block on, I've learned that it really drains my energy to have that hot tropical sun searing my skin. So I really cover up.

Speaker 3:

I have white UV protective arm sleeves that are cooling and have ice pockets under the arm. I also put a bandana around my neck full with ice. It's called an ice bandana so it keeps the cold up against your carotid artery. There's two systems you need to manage in that heat your internal system and your external system. So you want to keep your skin cool. They're dumping cold water over their head constantly and you want to keep your core cool If they have ice. On course, if you can swallow ice, especially if you're having GI issues, that's helpful to keep your core cool and keep the calories moving through. You. Look at getting some UV protective tights versus running in the Speedos that you do the swim in and the bike in Cover up especially.

Speaker 1:

You know you're coming from a climate that's not so hot, but just really try to protect yourself from the sun specifically so dean has just been giving away some top tips around his heat training and racing, and I just love the idea of the ice bandana, so I'll definitely be exploring that. But if you would like to be able to know a little bit more about how to really put those strategies into place for training and racing in the heat, then in the show notes below, if you click the link, you can download nutrition and hydration strategies for heat.

Speaker 2:

In your books you reference post-race blues a few times. I got the impression they were worse at the start than now. Claire and I did an ultra in the UK a couple of winters ago and I know for a fact I definitely suffered with post-race blues and have done from Ironman. So my question is how have you learned to deal with those post-race blues, because it's definitely a thing and what tricks have you learned whether it's practical, whether it's kind of strategic tips to overcome that?

Speaker 3:

You know, first is just having the realization that you go through these cycles, knowing, hey, this is kind of a trend, like post-race, you're going to be a little depressed. You've been there before, so this is not unusual or atypical. The other is, nowadays I kind of celebrate the lows and say you are so depressed you want to crawl under a rock. It's horrible. Have you ever been this horrible before? Can you get out of this place? I look at it as a challenge. Can you reach the finish of Kona if you're having a bad race and cramping?

Speaker 3:

This is part of living is having these dramatic highs when racing, or these very deep lows, these deep, deep lows of depression, and also realizing, you know, some of the greatest creative minds in history have suffered from severe depression and so it's not something you can't live with and still be very effective. It's a strange state of depression, these post-race depressions. You're kind of happy and blue at the same time. You're proud of your accomplishment, you know you've done something that most people could never do, but you're also you know you have these emotions where you feel useless and you're done. You have no more energy left. You know what's the point of living, kind of thing.

Speaker 2:

I've never really thought about this until you spoke, but a lot of us train because we're suffering with something like ADHD and exercise keeps us sane. And then after you've competed, you have a period of recovery and I suspect there's an element of not moving as much because physically we're not capable and we mentally need a break. But equally that break I'm the least happy the day I. If I have a recovery day, that's the worst day of the week for me mentally.

Speaker 3:

We're programmed to move. Modern society is built to be idle. We get in an elevator. You know we're trying to avoid movement and what I think a lot of us crave all three of us is this movement, this constant movement, elevating our heart rate. Motion stirs emotion. We are hunters and gatherers. That instinct is still within us. The things I try to do are daily practices. I have One being. I never sit down. Right now I'm standing up. I have my computer on a stand. So from the moment I get out of bed until the moment I go back to sleep, I try to at least be on my feet all day, at least standing up. When I sit down I really get lazy and lethargic and depressed. I try to exercise the next day after any big competition maybe walk half a mile or a mile to elevate my heart rate. Do some upper body stuff, not leg stuff like HIIT training burpees, push-ups, pull-ups, chair dips just to keep that movement and to get the body kind of re-acclimated to the next event.

Speaker 1:

I think it's so important to keep moving a little bit after you've done something, both mind and body. How do you manage being? You know training for these ultramarathon and extreme events? How do you manage that? And family life, because it's a lot of commitment to do these events and you know the planning of it. So tell us a little bit about how does that work for you and perhaps any tips for newer people coming into ultramarathon events. How can they manage that with a family?

Speaker 3:

I think the quality of time with your family is more important than quantity. So if you're training for any endurance sport, you're going to be, you know, absent for for large, for large blocks of time. But I think when you are with your family, that you're present for them, you're not distracted. You know you put down your phone, do things that they enjoy, things that you, you know, you, you all enjoy. So you know kids are really quick as finding hypocrisy If you tell them you're the most important thing in my life and then you're out training every day and you don't pay attention to them. They see that. So if they are indeed the most important thing in your life, that even if you are out there training, they can sense that when you're not, you're really with them and maybe training is something you need to do to be more with them.

Speaker 3:

Kids are smart. They really pick up on these things. Involve your family as much as possible. Endurance sports are great for kids. You know to see the human spirit at its finest. So bring them to the races. You know, if you travel to a race, don't make it just about you. Don't make it about your race. Build in a lot of activities for the rest of the family around the race and make it equally about them and, you know, doing things they love to do, as well as bringing them to the race, if you can. So involve them, show them your love and dedication to something that you really enjoy, and also your dedication to them.

Speaker 2:

I think it comes across in your books how fantastic the involvement of your parents and son are in supporting you. I love the part of the book where you sort of assume you've gone into a hallucination and you're thinking that your son has you've had a row and he's torn off home, and then you come around and it's lovely how it gave you the opportunity to get him involved but also to see him succeed as well, didn't it?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean, when you rely on someone like my son, nicholas, to crew for you, you put your trust in them. They can either lay you down or they can exceed your expectations, and he did just that. I was thinking about dropping out of the race where he crewed for me. I wanted to tell the life of someone that drops out that quits, and I kind of spun that daydream as a quitter and said, no, I don't want to quit, I want to succeed. So get up out of that chair and keep going.

Speaker 1:

Thinking of the Silk Road race in particular from a cultural perspective. You must have experienced amazing things. Is there anything that stands out as culturally amazing that you wouldn't have experienced if you hadn't been doing these events?

Speaker 3:

The way that running unites people. Running is a commonality we share as a species. Right, there's so many things in this world that divide us, be it the color of our skin, the God we worship, the language we speak, our socioeconomic level. But when you run, we're equal and running just. You get smiles from people, even if they're not runners, if they just see you running by, if they drive by and they see you running. There's just something about the human form and motion that is inspiring and it's positive. That's pretty much universal. People are really courteous to you, especially in these foreign countries. When you're out in the countryside, the people that have less means are the happiest. The kids are laughing and smiling, playing with an old rubber ball they found. You don't hear kids crying. You get closer to the cities and feel the stress level going up People honking, yelling, traffic. Attention just goes way, way up. Then you pass through a city, you get back in the country and everything chills out again.

Speaker 2:

I think that is a special thing about running you get out in nature more. You've run all these incredible races all over the world, but the one that I picked up on as being a very certainly one of the most special races for you is the Western States. What is it about the Western States that makes it? I mean the story you tell of completing your first and what I'm assuming is your last in a runner's high. I'm not sure whether you've been back since it, just it's certainly it's on my bucket list, if I can ever get a place there. What makes it so special?

Speaker 3:

Well, you know the Western States 100 mile endurance run was my first 100 miler. Nothing holds a mirror up to you like running 100 miles. I'll never forget the race director at the starting line said look around, half of you won't reach the finish line. Congratulations for having the courage to try. And he said the other half of you that crossed the finish line. You know you're going to cross that finish line as a changed person. You're going to learn more about yourselves in the next 24 hours than you've ever known in a lifetime. And it proved true. It was a great awakening.

Speaker 3:

I proved I could do something I thought was impossible. You know, when I first heard about running a hundred miles, I thought there's trickery involved, come on, there's campgrounds along the way or hotels. You know you take taxis or you get on bikes and ride a little bit, but just to go run continuously for a hundred miles. It proved to me that you know I'm better than I thought I was and I'm more capable than I thought I was. So it was just something with the first one and that kind of just grand aha moment where you said, my God, I just ran 100 miles. That sticks with you.

Speaker 3:

And you know Western States is the first 100 mile trail race.

Speaker 3:

I mean, now that I know history, you know I will say that the Old Town of Arizona actually started in ancient Greece in 490 BC, but short of that, the first modern 100-miler was the Western States and it started as a horse race. The legend is that a gentleman had trained all year to ride this 100-mile horse race and a couple of days before the race his horse went lame and he still wanted to do the race, so he decided to run it. They thought he was crazy, but they let him do it and he finished, and they didn't have a traditional running medal. Like you know, if you finish the London Marathon or any other marathon, you get a medal around your neck, right. Well, when he finished, there was no running medals because it was a horse race, but they had these rodeo buckles and so they gave him a belt buckle because that's what they had and that thing stuck. Now, globally, when you finish these 100 mile trail races, you get a belt buckle it's amazing to hear where things originate from the, the history behind it.

Speaker 1:

Talking about, you know that man that did the, you know ran the the 100 miles. How, I guess, does your mental game change over time? So you know, going back to that original 30 miles? You did, but now you've done so many events. How do you play that mental game? How do you push through when times are really tough, when you're in pain? What's your story behind that?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean. People say you know, what do you think about when things get tough? Thinking is the problem. I try not to think, just to turn off my mind entirely. So you know, when things start to get tough, you're typically thinking you know when's the next aid station, you know when's the next mile marker.

Speaker 3:

I don't do that. I put on blinders completely. I don't reflect on the past. I think about the present moment, here and now. I just try to take my next footstep to the best of my ability. That's all I say to myself.

Speaker 3:

Take your next footstep to the best of your ability. Okay, take your next footstep to the best of your ability. Don't think about how much further you've got to go. Don't think about the past. Don't think about how miserable you are. Just think about taking your next footstep as best as you can. And it really takes some discipline to bring your mind back, because our minds are so active. We've got thousands of things racing through our mind. Even now, as we're on this interview, you're thinking about the next question how much time we have left. I don't do that. Bring your mind back to the next footstep, put your head down, take your next footstep. It's almost like a Zen state. I can do this for six or seven hours, just misery saying don't think about anything except your next footstep. And I've gotten to points where I thought there's no way I'm going to ever reach the finish line. And 12 or 15 hours later I somehow crossed the finish line.

Speaker 2:

Is there a way you apply this to business? You had a very successful business career as well. Is there a lesson that we can be learning in business from this?

Speaker 3:

I like to set what are called big, hairy, audacious goals. Set a big goal, a dream goal. The path to get there is never easy. So some days things flow and everything seems to be on track. Other days things implode and you think, oh, the whole thing is derailed. But having that mindset of just, you know, today I'm going to be my best when I get out of bed. I'm going to give it my best effort today and no matter what, no matter how bad things get, I'm going to give it my best effort, because you can't control external events. All you can control is the way you view and perceive external events. So the commitment every day when I get out of bed, be it business or racing, is just, I'm going to be the best Dean that Dean can be. Today I'm dedicated to that one goal and if I can live up to that goal, no matter if I fail, I've succeeded.

Speaker 1:

What do you see in people currently sort of training for these events, Because there's lots of people who swear by training with music or listening to things. What's your approach to training? Do you ever listen to anything? Or you know, training your mind. Is that about the basics, your mind being empty, so to speak.

Speaker 3:

You know I do a combination of all of what you just mentioned. You know one thing I my mother was an English teacher told me the best writers are the best readers. I love to read, but when you're training for six or eight hours a day, when do you have time to read? I love listening to audio books. I probably have 500 on my playlist. I have all different genres self-help, business, sports, adventure, history books.

Speaker 3:

Bibliofeels say that's not really reading a book because you're listening. But I remind them, the first and probably the greatest piece of literature ever written was Homer's Odyssey and Iliad, and those were spoken words. These were lyrical because the story was passed down lyrically before the written word. So I don't think there's anything inauthentic about listening to a book. In fact, when I listen to a book and then I go and read that same book, I have a very different experience. So I do a lot of listening to audio books. I also do a lot of writing when I'm running. We have some of our clearest thoughts when we're out doing an endurance sport More for me when I'm running than when I'm cycling, because things are just happening quicker when you're cycling. When I'm out for a long training run, I have some really good thoughts. It's the one time where our mind is free to think for itself. We're less encumbered than going through the course of a normal day. I do a lot of voice dictation of the thoughts that I have and then I type them up.

Speaker 2:

I do a lot of voice dictation of the thoughts that I have and then I type them up. Amazing, genuinely loved listening to your books whilst running because it just I'm like you. I think that's such a great opportunity to consume books. I'm dyslexic, so horribly slow at reading, but with listening to books you can consume them so easily when you've got lots of time on your hands while you're training. Having written a few books myself, I know how difficult it is to put together a really good book. What is it about running that attracts so many books? And for anybody that was wanting to turn their passion into a book, what advice would you give? Because it's rare that I genuinely laugh out loud at a book, so there's something going on successfully there. What advice would you give to a budding author?

Speaker 3:

You know to make the voice yours and authentic. I think the prelude to my first book. I said every runner is a story to tell. This is my story. Everyone gets into running for a different reason. Some people look at themselves in the mirror and realize I'm 40 or 50 kilos overweight. I got to do something. Other people are dragged to the sidelines of a marathon and get inspired watching these runners go by. Tell your story.

Speaker 3:

We love stories and hearing about different realities. When you read my book you learn about Dean's reality, which is different than your reality. It's expansive. You learn my way of doing things is not the only way. People live very different lives. We have a lot of demands on our attention, especially with social media. It's constant bombardment of noise. The first sentence has got to be interesting. You've got to pull the reader in the first sentence or else you know that's going to set the stage for the rest of the book. So try to make your first sentence compelling. Avoid cliches. They're tired and lazy. Writing Involve all the senses when describing a scene. Involve what it looks like, what it feels like, what it smells like, what it tastes like. We relate to the world through our senses, so write about how your senses are impacted by what you're going through and the situation you're in.

Speaker 2:

And I can see, having listened to those books, how it's taken me into the story by doing that, so that's absolutely brilliant. We always ask on this podcast what books you find yourself recommending to others.

Speaker 3:

You know modern books. There's a book called the Endurance, about the race to get to the South Pole. It's an amazing story. It's an adventure story. It's got a happy ending. And then there's another book called the Worst Journey in the World, another raceliad and the Odyssey, and that is probably the best writing in history. It's the first piece of written literature after the oral tradition, so it's written lyrically. So when you read it it almost sings to you. It's like you're reading a passage of music. So I continually go back and read any new translation of the Iliad or the Odyssey. Good to great as far as business titles is a great book. You know Malcolm Gladwell's the tipping point is very influential and profound.

Speaker 2:

I love Malcolm Gladwell, love Good to Great, but there's some new ones that I haven't read. That's awesome, adding to the reading list nicely. We always ask the previous guest to ask the next guest a question and your question comes from Ben Rosario. I think Claire's got Ben's question.

Speaker 1:

Ben has asked what leader inspires you the most.

Speaker 3:

My father, my dad, I mean. You know there's a lot of great people I admire from afar, but I don't really know them personally. But you know my dad is. He's always been there for me. He's been, you know, my greatest supporter and he's taught me so many lessons about, you know, the grace of living. So I would say my greatest leisure is my dad.

Speaker 2:

And one final question to wrap things up. We're recording this just as the Paris Olympics has finished. What did you make of what I thought was an incredible event?

Speaker 3:

It was phenomenal, the energy was phenomenal and if I could offer any advice, I would hope that, you know, in future Olympics the coverage will reflect a little bit more on the past, because how the Olympics got to Paris in 2024 is an incredible story and a Frenchman who revived the Olympics and who brought us the modern Olympics.

Speaker 3:

After you know, the ancient Olympics ended in 394 AD. Looking at the history, the Greeks in 776 said we need something that transcends our constant conflict, a warring between city-states. We need something that brings us together and they said let's have this event where, instead of killing each other, we compete against each other in sport and we celebrate this. The world needs that message that started in 776 in ancient Olympia, greece, which is still there. You can still walk around the ruins of where this all began. So I wish there was a little bit more of a nod to the past and the celebration of the fascinating history that got us to the modern Olympics. It is a global event that still continues to bring the world together. I'm proud to be Greek. When I watch the coverage, I think you know my ancestors conceived this whole idea and it's still something we have today.

Speaker 2:

The next Olympics is not a million miles away from your US home. Is it in LA? How do you think they'll compare to the Paris one that's just gone?

Speaker 3:

Ironically, I was born in LA, very close to the LA Coliseum where my you know, my America roots come from. I'm going to try to exert my influence saying celebrate the past a little bit. From the coverage I saw here in the US of the transition. It was very much a Hollywood moment. It was Tom Cruise, very theatrical, very Hollywood. It didn't speak to me about sports. It was Tom Cruise, very theatrical, very Hollywood. It didn't speak to me about sports, it spoke to me about Hollywood and entertainment. Hopefully there will be a nod to the past and celebration of the past. It's through celebrating our history and tradition that links us together, not just as living humans now but to our predecessors, and I think that that message is unifying. From what I saw of the coverage at least the transition here in the US. It's going to take a lot of endurance on my behalf to get that message through, but I'm going to do my best.

Speaker 2:

I'm sure, given how much influence you've had on running, you will make that happen somehow, dean. It's been absolutely brilliant chatting to you, loved your books, loved chatting chatting to you today. Some really great insights in there, as well as some inspirational stuff too. So thank you so much. If you want to find out more about dean karnasas, the best place to find him are on instagram, where he is at ultramarathon, and on facebook, where he's just Dean Karnasas, obviously, but also his website is ultramarathonmancom, and I honestly recommend you check out his books. I genuinely love both Run Us High and Ultramarathon man. Like I said, they make me laugh out loud. Go check them out. So what did you make of that interview with Karno Dean Karnasas?

Speaker 1:

Amazing. I love speaking to people with a depth of history behind their sport and I love how he got into it. Yeah, I'll just run, you know, 30 miles after having a few beers and a few tequilas. There's not many people I know of in the running world that fell into running like that. I love the beginning story, and he's just got so much knowledge behind his running as well, hasn't he?

Speaker 2:

I just think it's incredible. I just recommend his books to everyone because I just genuinely think if you don't run, it will get you running. If you do run, it'll get you running more. But you'll also empathize with some of it. And he just throws away the comment about the fact that he was running the 200 mile race. That was a relay because he couldn't find 11 mates. But the story around that is just phenomenal. And running 200 miles nonstop and he's obviously he's done longer than that, I think. His longest run, I think, is 350 miles without stopping. It's just absolutely incredible. But the story he tells when he orders the pizza and the pizza man is like driving alongside him and then he has a full cheesecake as well. It's just brilliant. I think he tells amazing stories, but he's also clearly learned a lot on his journey as well and experienced a lot. Any takeaways that you're going to adopt into your life or training or anything else.

Speaker 1:

I did love his ice bandana keeping your neck cool and actually I often share with my clients about the ice cubes and actually keeping them in your mouth and, when you can, swallowing the ice cube to keep your cold temperature down.

Speaker 1:

So I thought those tips about heat I mean he's done heat and ridiculously cold temperatures as well.

Speaker 1:

But we've interviewed so many athletes that talk about how they keep their mind quiet and actually he was able to listen to books as he read and actually write his books as he's running. But actually coming back to that like when things get tough, that you've got to be able to be quiet in your head, and I think that's been a massive theme, hasn't it when we've interviewed particularly endurance athletes that how do you get through those barriers and it's being quiet in your head, I thought that just resonates with so many things that we've heard. He knows so much history he's obviously Greek from what he tells us but the history behind the Olympics, the history behind running, I love that and I think as runners, probably most of us don't know where some of this really originates from and that, for me, is I really want to read more about it now, and particularly having had the Olympics just come to a close. That's actually inspired me to read a bit more about the real history behind things as well.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I agree, I think the Olympics history is amazing. I think in this day and age, we would see the UTMB as being certainly the top European race in Western States, the top US race. But the UTMB has definitely captured more attention in recent years because it literally, you know, 20,000 or 16,000 athletes get to race it, whereas Western States is still only a small. It's so difficult to get in there now, but the history and the story behind it is fascinating. So, yeah, I agree, and I actually hadn't heard of the swallowing of ice cubes, so I thought that was great advice.

Speaker 2:

Let's just put it out there, yeah be careful to crunch ice cubes before swallowing them, yeah, but also the arm sleeves with ice tucked into those as well. I thought that was, again, really good idea. So loads of great advice, and for great books as well. And I just think his writing style is so infectious. A great episode, lots to lots to learn, lots of inspiration, absolute lunatic, but it shows what you can achieve if you put your mind to it, whether that's in sport or whether that's in business. And obviously you talked about how you can take that pushing through the pain and apply it to the business life as well, about bringing it back to. Well, look, just put one foot in front of the other. Don't worry about where the finish line is, what the goal is. Just get through one more step closer towards the finish line and being present, I thought that was really powerful. So an awesome episode from an incredible human being. For everyone else out there, keep on training. So I said right at the start I would give you something to help you achieve what Dean just described as the BHAG the big, hairy, audacious goal. Because goal setting is really important, but goal achieving is a very different thing. We don't rise to the level of our goals. We fall to the level of our systems, and Dean talked really beautifully about how, yes, we need the long-term goal, the finish line, to head towards, but we need to stay very present on what can we do today? What now? What's the next step forward? So we have a live workshop that goes on, called the Limitless Life Workshop, and it will go through my goal setting system, but also the goal achieving system, the system that we fall back on to ensure that we achieve the goals that we set. So if you go to the link in the show notes or you go to wwwthetrustedteam, you can join the Limitless Life Workshop. It's about a three-hour workshop, so it's a proper coaching workshop, but I'm going to walk you through the process. I'm going to give you the questions to ask yourself and the time to work through it so that, at the end, not only do you have a clear understanding of what your BHAGs are your big, hairy, audacious goals but also exactly what you've got to do now to start achieving them. So go to the show notes or the website, thetrustedteam, and join us at the Limitless Life Workshop, completely free of charge, of course, if you want us to keep getting amazing guests onto the Business of Endurance podcast.

Speaker 2:

We don't ask for you to pay for us. We don't ask for patronage. All we ask for is that you subscribe to the podcast, ideally on Apple. Give us a five-star rating because it shows us you care and, if you've got time, leave us a comment. One word is fine, something like inspiring or amazing or something like that, but we really do appreciate it and it will help us to continue to deliver amazing guests on what we hope you find to be an amazing podcast. Thanks very much. Jeff and Chloe from Big Moose Charity, we featured in episode one of season seven, made such a great impact on the both of us, we decided to make them our charity sponsor for season seven. Now, they really touched me in the sense that I lost my brother-in-law to suicide in Wales and these guys are working their socks off to help prevent situations like that. Claire, why did Jeff and Chloe really make an impact on you?

Speaker 1:

Coming from a background in clinical nutrition and working in mental health, to me also it hit a spot in terms of the charity and how they are building therapy to help support people with mental health difficulties, and they've saved over 50 lives now and already met their first target of a million and their new target, 15 million, that they're trying to get to.

Speaker 2:

It's absolutely incredible and 15 million is a huge target they've set themselves, but they're speeding up help that people in desperately in need get, and this help is needed more than ever and I know how problematic mental health issues are in today's world. So if you think you can help Big Moose Charity and they're particularly looking for corporate partners to help them raise that 15 million, if you think you can help Big Moose Charity and they're particularly looking for corporate partners to help them raise that 15 million, if you think you can help them or link them into a company that can help them, the best place to go to is bigmoosecharityco, or you can find them on Instagram as bigmoosecharity, or you can even email Jeff at jeffatbigmooseco.