Doubles Only Tennis Podcast

Angela Kulikov Interview: On Net Skills, Dealing with Injury, & Doubles Strategy

• Will Boucek • Episode 182

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Angela Kulikov is a WTA doubles player with a career-high ranking of 57 in the world. She played college tennis at USC where she was the #1 doubles player in the country. She joins me from California as she rehabs an ankle injury.

We discussed her wide array of hobbies including flag football, coaching tennis, and now, golf. She shares her path to becoming a professional tennis player and how she's dealt with injuries, using them to reset and propel her game forward.

You'll learn:

  • How Angela improved her game during COVID.
  • Why she and her partner, Sophie Chang, play two-back on her 2nd serve.
  • The "contingency" or "sparkle" serve play.
  • How she thinks about using different serve formations.
  • A serve and volley drill that helps with timing the first volley.
  • The Reuleaux Triangle framework to follow at the net.
  • Angela's GAT method for decision-making during points (this is at the very end).

Finally, she shares a few book recommendations, her favorite tournament, and how to make doubles more popular.

Angela has a great doubles mind and we'll plan on a round two with her to discuss the psychology of doubles (she has a master's degree in applied psychology). Hopefully, we'll see her back on court soon.

Mentioned in this episode:


See the shownotes for this episode here: https://www.thetennistribe.com/angela-kulikov-interview/

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Tennis Journey and Strategy With Angela

Speaker 1

You're about to hear my conversation with Angela Kulikov. Angela is a WTA doubles player with a career-high ranking of number 57 in the world, and I don't believe this will be the last time you hear Angela on the show. She seems to be as into talking doubles strategy and tactics and psychology at least as much as I am. So I think we'll definitely do a round two at some point. But in this conversation Angela shares her story with us how she got started in tennis, how she was a kind of USTA child prodigy to dealing with some injuries, playing five years at USC and then ultimately having a relatively successful doubles career, at least early on. She is only 26 years old, so I'm sure her career is not near over at this point. We also talk strategy a little bit, so we talk about why she and her partner, sophie Chang, play two back on her second serve at times. We talk about eye formation versus regular and Australian formation. We talk about some lessons that she's learned over the years for playing at the net. She talks about the servant volley, which she's very good at, and she shares a specific drill that helps her with her servant volley that you can go out and implement yourself. We also talk about her partnership with Sophie Chang, who I had on the podcast several months ago. I'll link to that episode in the show notes if you want to listen to that. But I asked Angela what Sophie's best attributes are as a doubles partner. So she answers that question. We talk about her plans for the rest of the year After this conversation.

Speaker 1

We actually recorded again and I'm going to plug this in somewhere. But she talks about this GAT doubles framework, geometry, ability and tendency and how she uses that on the court to take away opponent's tendencies and strengths and force them into more uncomfortable shots and ultimately kind of tilt the odds in her favor. And it's something that I've never been able to define as well as Angela does, but it's something that you can definitely implement into your own game and kind of process out there on the court. At the end I ask a few rapid fire questions your favorite tennis book, non-tennis book tournament and then, of course, how to make doubles more popular. So this was a really fun kind of in-depth conversation and we're going to do a round two at some point. I think we're going to dive deeper into the psychology, as Angela mastered in applied psychology in school, so she has a very good sense of why people are afraid on the doubles court, what we're afraid of and how to overcome that. So I really look forward to that conversation, but for now, without further delay, enjoy this round one with Angela Kulikov.

Speaker 1

Hey everybody, welcome to the show. Today we have Angela Kulikov on. Angela welcome.

Speaker 2

Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1

So we've been kind of chatting back and forth trying to set this up for a while and I'm excited to talk with you about tennis and you're just telling me that you're kind of a strategy dork, which made me even more excited about this episode. But before we dive into tennis, I wanted to check in and see how the golf game is going since Memorial Day weekend.

Speaker 2

It's been going good. So my boyfriend actually lives on a golf course. So right outside my window is hole number 17 of Los Robles golf course. So it's kind of the accessibility to the driving range and the abundance of free time. I have right now doing the PT for my ankle. So I played my first round over at Westlake. I think it's probably one of the easiest courses in America. But it was the first time you could legitimately say I played the round and didn't sort of you know take a practice ball and hit four holes over and you know, just drive the car around, so it's coming along.

Speaker 2

I'm getting better. I'm happy with it.

Speaker 1

So is that your first time to ever play golf, or had you played previously?

Speaker 2

That would be my first. So my first round, I guess, was my first date with my boyfriend Alex. It was at the same golf course I'd never played before.

Speaker 2

I'd been to Drive Shack in Orlando once or twice, as we all do after the campus, but I hadn't really swung clubs or legitimately played around. So that was a joke. I mean, I made contact five or six times there, didn't touch it again, and then for Christmas he gifted me a set of clubs. I, you know, took the hint, obviously. So I was like all right, I'll come around, and you know he plays with the other guys on his team pretty frequently and I'll sort of just ride along in the cart. And when the ankle injury happened, you know it was a little bit of time before I was really able to stand and walk around. But you know I need some kind of athletic outlet and I finally was like all right, I'm.

Speaker 2

I'm there to golf. I can stand in one spot and sort of rotate. Now I've got these clubs waiting for me. You know what I'm going to dive in, why not? And that ended up coinciding with that Memorial Day weekend and I think just the boredom and the stir craziness from no tennis all just came through in this three-day weekend, but you know, it paid off and I feel like it'll be a fun hobby just to carry on for the rest of my life, even post tennis. So I'm into it.

Speaker 1

Yeah, it definitely is. Yeah, the Instagram video, I mean it looked like for somebody who's never really played much. You got I mean, you're athletic obviously anyway, so you can figure sports out but you got pretty good in the course of three days Like your swing looked. I played some golf growing up so I can like kind of see and know what I'm talking about and it it looks pretty good. I was impressed.

Speaker 2

I appreciate it. No, I mean I I've had Alex is pretty good, so there was some coaching from him. There was a ridiculous amount of film. We'll call it. There was just me on YouTube and. Instagram like, like, watching every, and it's like far too many people do it.

Speaker 2

They've got these raps now and just these like really great ways of getting the little tips and tricks just to get you going. But, um, I don't know that was. That was 100, just my crazy hypomania. That usually goes to tennis finding a a new outlet. That's what I owe that to.

Speaker 1

So let's go back to your story. We can keep it to maybe like one or two minutes, but tell for people who don't know you, tell them your kind of story how you got started in tennis, and then we'll go from there.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean tennis was an accident. My parents are both immigrants. I'm half Filipino, half Russian. Neither of them were athletes, didn't really play sports. But I came out and was very active and interested in playing with any equipment or anytime someone had a ball around me, I was throwing and kicking and whatever around with it. Anytime someone had a ball around me, I was throwing and kicking and whatever around with it. So I grew up in Burbank and Burbank Tennis Center happened to have $5 lessons on the weekends.

Speaker 1

So I started off there. You can't find those anymore.

Speaker 2

No, exactly, my parents did not have any idea at the time how expensive tennis really was either, so whoops on their part. But I was lucky enough that the USTA was sort of doing their next search for the next generation of guinea pigs, I suppose. So I was super young I was about seven and a half, maybe eight I think, for that first talent ID camp, um, and they liked me. So I spent the next 10 years over at the training center in Carson. I, you know my I, like I said my parents wouldn't have been able to afford a sport as pricey as tennis. So without their help there's definitely no, no prospect for me. Um few injuries around 15, 16 sort of knocked me off of that. You know, elite, we got to get you at Wimbledon by 17 trajectory, but probably was for the better in hindsight because it solidified college for me.

Speaker 2

I spent five years at USC. From that five because of COVID. You know, really got to address and kind of regather that momentum and steam I'd lost. Because I, you know, really got to address and kind of regather that momentum and steam I'd lost. Because I, you know, I was brought up on that one track I'm going to be a singles pro would never have taken double seriously.

Speaker 2

And you know it was tough because I went from next big thing-ish to kind of irrelevant, like I really my first two years in college I wasn't ranked, I played bottom of the lineup and there was a big adjustment period for me, just mentality wise, of accepting yeah, you're, you're sort of not this prodigy anymore, you're, you're kind of back to the middle line. So a lot of development for me happened there. Line so a lot of development for me happened there. Covid especially gave me truly a year to go back to the beginning and address some things I otherwise wouldn't have gotten to, just because when you're competing every single week you can't really address grips, you can't really make huge technical changes. In that eight months where tennis stopped I actually did have a chance to go back to the drawing board. So it was sort of a combination of bad luck and good luck that got me to where I am now. So I'm, you know, in a weird way I'm grateful for the unlucky things that fell in my tennis path.

Speaker 1

So let's go back to say, like 18, 19 years old, you've had the injury, you're starting college or maybe you're a year in. What advice would you give yourself at that time, knowing what you know now?

Speaker 2

I mean, it would have been to just come to that acceptance of where I was sooner. You know, I think when you're brought up, in that, you know you're one of the top juniors and you're constantly comparing yourself to your peers and you know, my group would have been Kayla Day, Cece Bellis, Claire Liu those actually, they were the younger ones. Funny enough, I'm a 98, they're the 99s. And it's when you're growing up I remember that being this like benchmark. You wanted to be the best at your year, but I, you know, it just took me too long to accept that I wasn't that anymore. That was just the truth.

Speaker 2

It was me trying to protect this image or ego, I guess. I suppose I held about what I was and what I was supposed to be, and it took maybe my freshman year, getting just slapped in the face quite a bit, to go oh, maybe, maybe you're not. And then my sophomore year to sort of be okay with that. Like it felt like I was grasping at straws to protect this identity that didn't even exist. And when I finally just settled in and went, all right, yeah, you're, you're not that good. Like you're, you're not a professional prospect anymore, that was honestly where, um, there was a huge shift and this huge jump, honestly, in my level that allowed me to become a professional prospect again.

Speaker 1

Interesting. So once you like, took that pressure away, your game improved pretty much.

Speaker 2

It sounds funny. But once I kind of said, yeah, you suck, let's do something about it, instead of no, no, I'm still good, I'm still good, watch, watch, watch. And you know we watched. But uh, yeah, it was. It was when I just said you know what? This is where you are, this is where you were, this is where you are, this is where you were, this is where you are. It kind of freed me up to just build without those unnecessary strings pulling me to prove my value or my worth to anyone or myself.

Journey From Tennis to Football

Speaker 1

So do you think you were able to like work harder after that or work smarter after that, what actually allowed you to improve? Or do you think it was just totally mental and you didn't change anything with your kind of day-to-day improvement?

Speaker 2

I think college days working hard was never an issue. I was always kind of your works too hard type doesn't work, smart, I think early on. So I think a lot of it was more just that mental freedom. You know, we know how much of a role confidence plays in matches. I think it gets applied to the way we we train as well. You know when you're, when I'm busy trying to uphold this idea that no, no, I'm still this prospect, I'm going to train differently than no, okay, I literally don't know how to hit a two handed backhand. Like actually I can't make five two handed backhands in a row. We're going to hand feed today. Like it kind of permeated down even to those little training decisions. And yeah, I wouldn't say I started training smart until post-college and another injury that ended my singles career before it began. But yeah, a lot of it was mental. It was just that freedom to go back to the beginning instead of trying to protect something I no longer was.

Speaker 1

And then in one of your other Instagram reels, you kind of go through your story and talk about football. Then after college you spend three years kind of grinding and it looks like it was pretty difficult and emotional, as the lower level of the tour can be. Um, talk a little bit about that time between say, uh, what was it? Us open 2022. Is that right or 2023?

Speaker 2

that'd be my first.

Speaker 1

22 would be my first 22, and then the, the time between the end of college and then that US Open.

Speaker 2

From a football standpoint or just an overall?

Speaker 1

Oh, no, no, no Tennis, we'll get to football later.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean that's so. Like I said, covid also saved my career because again I was improving. There was a big jump, like I said, my junior year, especially in doubles, where I started realizing, oh, maybe in this area I still have a shot. And COVID let me truly go back to the drawing board. That was when I met one of my coaches, dave Schwartz, who's the head coach over at Claremont McKenna, and he was super integral to that. You know we were spending, so his his season actually at CMS got canceled because COVID shut it down. So he was free and I was a kind of a fun project, I feel like, for him. So we were spending hours every single day.

Speaker 2

Just, you know, we reworked my forehand grip.

Speaker 2

We were discussing so many tactical things because he is very much a tactician himself and just readdressing and fine tuning every little detail and the improvement rate at one point there started becoming absurd.

Speaker 2

I mean I would practice a lot with some of the men on the men's team at CMS and you know it's it's division three but obviously they're men, so the the lever levels pretty high. But it kind of became this like measuring stick for me as I would play against them and we started seeing over the course of like a week I mean I don't know UTR well enough, but my UTR would be increasing every single week and we were really seeing these jumps happen in every part my fitness, my overall athleticism, adding miles per hour to the serve, the grip coming through on the forehand, adding a two-handed backhand. So I started just making these really huge jumps to where, honestly, the goal was singles, the goal was wow, maybe she can be one of those late bloomers that makes a, makes a push on on the tour post college and um, that ended up biting me in the butt because that amount of training and we're talking like again, like the golf thing we mentioned, it was that for tennis yeah seven months.

Speaker 2

So we were like six, seven hours a day between the court and the gym and me doing some dumb extra stuff even at home. So I messed up my back pretty badly with that and went back to USC for my fifth year and couldn't really play because of it.

Speaker 1

Doctors, could not-. Was that just over-training, just like overuse injury?

Speaker 2

That's probably what it was. It was just an insane amount of rotation and torque I was. I was putting on myself, so doctors couldn't figure it out, but I was able to do two. I could flex, I could extend and I could move. I just could not rotate so I could serve in a volley. Pretty much I was team of that and, uh, that was how I played doubles, honestly anyway.

Speaker 2

So the plan was to shoot me off for doubles in the meantime while we tried to rehab the back. And the joke was always you know what happens if your doubles career takes off too quickly and your ranking gets too high, and we'd all laugh about what a great problem that would be. And then that sort of happened and I got faced with that decision of do you want to play the Australian or do you want to go to Tunisia next year? And it really wasn't that hard a decision honestly. I mean not enough to keep me up at night. Every so often I have a good day hitting groundies and I'll think, huh, maybe that could be fun, but how much I've been exposed now to the top level.

Speaker 2

I'm not a ball striker like that, so it probably was for the best.

Speaker 1

Yeah, um. So I do want to get to some tennis strategy. We mentioned football. Um, how does you've got so many hobbies, it seems like. How does football play into all of this?

Speaker 2

uh, football was just. Football is kind of the the life and the the long, not long lost, I guess it just. It was never really an option for me. But I told you I wanted to play with any ball I could growing up and at school the boys played football early on so I fell love with it, playing two-hand touch on the school blacktop. You know, tennis when it started picking up didn't really there weren't as many flag football opportunities as there are now and my tennis obviously took precedence so I didn't really get to play any other sports growing up.

Speaker 2

I went to USC, obviously a big football school, so there was a bit of that around me that piqued my interest again. And then the injuries around my mid-teenage years I needed something to fill my time and nobody had bought me golf clubs yet. So I started coaching my younger brother and sort of becoming a part of his journey. And then you know I I wouldn't say I lost my passion for it. It was more just tennis and that transition to the pro tour was so consuming for me that I just didn't really have the time or energy.

Doubles Partnership Strategies and Player Attributes

Speaker 2

It felt like to to follow the NFL as as closely as I did. Um, but I'd say, you know, seahawks were my team. I kept tabs a little, you know, if it was on on Sundays I had it on in the background. But I would say, yeah, and this this last year it was my brother's senior year of high school football I met my boy. My boyfriend is the long snapper for the Rams, so there was a lot of it just kind of put right back in front of my face. Uh, you know, it helped me just remember how much I I do love that sport. So, uh, you know we'll see what other opportunities become available in the future. There is the the olympics in 2028 added flag football and that's now cool so that's that's highlighted on my calendar.

Speaker 2

I actually was supposed to try try out for the team. This year it was the week of Austin. Actually it was during the Austin, so I asked them.

Speaker 2

I said, hey, listen, this sounds weird, but I'm in a sport where I might be free on Friday. I'm hopefully not free on Friday, but can you hold my spot, and at worst I'll be there on Saturday. And they unfortunately said you needed to be there all three days. So I said, all right, I'll, we'll talk next year or maybe the year after that, but we've got some time before 2028.

Speaker 1

Okay, so what are? What are the tryouts for then? Are the trials just for like a?

Speaker 2

There's a national team. There's actually like a flag. A U S flag national team uh, women's and men. So a us flag national team, uh, women's and men. So, okay, I didn't know that.

Speaker 1

Okay, I'm not as familiar with what their schedule looks like, but that's gonna be the feeder to what the olympic team team being so okay at some point I'll have to lock into that makes sense when you, when you say all this stuff, like I'm thinking of, um, the uh fetter book, um, it's called the Master, I think, and how, like when he was a kid he played like all these different sports, so he would like I think he walked around his house with like some type of ball at his feet all the time and he played soccer and he did all this stuff and then you know, I guess I'm probably like crossing out multiple books, but like there's two approaches to like becoming a great athlete.

Speaker 1

One of them is like a narrow focus, where you really focus on one sport from the time you're very young and you specialize in that specific skill but Federer had a different approach for an approach it sounds like you did as well where you're like playing multiple sports and really kind of fine tuning those motor skills and the hand-eye coordination and the footwork and all those different things.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I'd be a really big proponent of that general philosophy. I mean, mine was not by design, mine was just-.

Speaker 1

It sounds more fun too.

Speaker 2

It is, it really is.

Speaker 1

And tennis is easy to burn out of as well, so that helps, especially with my clearly obsessive personality with Sophie there and I think you had to run maybe for for football tryouts or something, so I wanted to ask a couple of questions about her. So what is what do you feel like Sophie's best attribute is as a doubles partner, and she's probably going to listen to this.

Speaker 2

That's good I can, I can take some shots here then. No, her, I mean. Firstly, soph is just such a wonderful person and that's overlooked. I feel like a ton, and that was one of the things that I think even to this day I undervalue or I underappreciate what a role that played in how good we were and how quickly we were that good.

Speaker 2

So we, you know, I found Sophie at one of my first ITF events. She actually happened to be on the court right before I was and was something like eight all of the tie break. So I watched her play two points, I watched one serve and I watched one forehand and I texted Dave and I was like hey, put on this, you know the last two points of Sophie Chang's match. And the reply was like what are you doing? And she's like you've got a match in five minutes. Why are we talking about this? So, um, you know, I messaged her after that tournament that was the conquered 60 K and I said you know, I think our games would match really well. Do you want to play?

Speaker 2

And we ended up winning the first ITF. We played together and sort of tore through the ITF to the WTA level in under a year. So I think a lot of that would be the way we mesh, just from what a unbelievable ball striker she is. I mean she's 6'2, with a 120 mile an hour serve the biggest forehand I've maybe seen on tour when it's firing super clean technically on on both sides and you know I'm sort of the the net person I suppose that's just creating more stress for you at the net while you're stuck with a huge ball coming at you on the cross from her.

Speaker 2

So you know, between that and between our chemistry, just knowing what a good person she was, how great she was at helping me make that adjustment from college to pros I mean she herself didn't go to college but she knew the trials and tribulations and horrors, honestly, of the ITF tour and what a good friend she was to me, what a good mentor she was to me and how just enjoyable it was to be on court with her because there is so much stress and pressure.

Speaker 2

And knowing that she had my back whether I did something stupid or played awful again gave me freedom to not do something stupid or play awful as much as you might when you're just getting started. So I'd say, yeah, one is just what a great person she is, how much respect she has for the partner she plays with and just how difficult the game is, and then the pure power that comes off of this fucking Chang racket is a spectacle to see in person, and I've, I guess I faced it once early on when I was still in college, but I've never had to play Sophie professionally and don't really want to, so it was really nice to have that thing that I definitely don't have on my game get to be part of my game because it was on my side of the net.

Speaker 1

Yeah, so it sounds like, were you. I guess you weren't necessarily like looking for a doubles partner at the time, because you're still focusing on singles a little bit, but you saw her play and you're like, well, I like to be at the net and if I could have her at the baseline, like that would make it pretty easy for me at the net and I would be able to, you know, force some errors with my movement.

Speaker 2

Right. I mean, that was when I was in that back injury phase, so I was all doubles, I was sort of. I didn't have a clue what I was doing, but I couldn't play singles. I actually. This was when I legitimately couldn't hit ground strokes, so I went and found the best ground strokes I could to be my partner.

Speaker 1

Oh, okay, I see, yeah, okay, that makes a ton of sense. So let's, let's dive into some of the strategies. So one of the things that I asked Sophie about in Austin was this this two back that y'all play on I think it's on your second serve, is that right? And then you serve in volley.

Speaker 2

Talk a little bit about how that started and then why that works so well for y'all I mean it started as we were getting absolutely crushed in that situation in a match early on in our career and just needed to do something. I think actually it was crushed.

Speaker 1

How like? What were they doing?

Speaker 2

we just I'm in my head as we're playing matches. I mean I wish I could pull up the stats myself, but I'm keeping tabs as we're playing sort of on the stats of first serve percentage. First serve points one and I knew we were not winning any points when I was hitting second serves.

Speaker 2

And you know, I, there were two ways to go about it. There was the let's take some pace off then and make more first serves, but it still needed to be addressed and I think it was Soph's idea actually. She just told me like, hey, I'm going to be straight with you, I'm not comfortable with the net right now. Can we just pull me back? And I couldn't hit ground strokes then. So I said, well, are you cool if I still serve in volley? And she said, go for it. And weirdly enough, it worked.

Speaker 2

So we did that at the ITF level, honestly more, and it seemed to fly and it wasn't something I thought would fly on the WTA level. So we used it a bit more sparingly, but it on occasion does. You know, I think sometimes just changing the look to a returner, to something that's completely foreign, just gets in people's heads and it's not really a play I'm ever picking first. It's not kind of my general. Yeah, let's pull of those back pocket things that every so often we feel like circumstances require it. So it's maybe not feeling great at net, I'm not feeling great serving. You know, we, we try it and if it messes with people, it messes with people. We keep going and if not, you move on to the next adjustment. But it's, I don't know, it's sort of just a non-traditional accident. That's one.

Speaker 1

Us a few important points yeah, no, I mean, it can definitely work. The um, uh, elise mertens and chase away, use it. So I'm on chase second serve. You know they'll pull mertens back and she's so good at defending. They both are at the baseline. So it's like, okay, rip the second serve and hit through us Like good luck, right, and they're able to. I'm sure that you know it's not ideal, you'd rather have a stronger second serve in Shea's case.

Speaker 1

But it works for them obviously Talk about the serve and volley a little bit. Is that something you've always had? No-transcript.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that for me, one came from just the lack of quality of my ground strokes, the lack of confidence in them as well. So the injuries in my teen years, you know, were during your most kind of formative, I suppose, or not formative, but solidifying years. Right, that's 15, 16, 17. Like you are finalizing your identity as a tennis player and that's just missing.

Speaker 2

And then I got plopped into d1 tennis at 18 and you know the the ground strokes, honestly, were just behind and couldn't really catch up in time. So the serve and volley started as a singles thing. It was just I really don't want to hit a forehand, I really don't want to hit a forehand here. I don't want to hit a backhand here. That was the only way around it. And it sounds a bit counterintuitive because the serve and volley especially when women do it gets seen as a super aggressive, really ballsy play, where for me it wasn't. It was asking me to stay back and hit a ground. It was asking too much. I'd rather serve and volley and play from there.

Speaker 2

So, funny enough, it got developed in singles and then using it in doubles again, especially in the college level. Not too many girls were doing it. So it's a different look, it's a high pressure. Look, I do have good hands and happen to be a very good volleyer. So it removed me having to be from the baseline pretty much entirely and allowed me to get right to the spot that I wanted to be immediately. So it was. Yeah, it was a funny way that it came into my game, but it wasn't like a thing I said, ooh, I want to develop the serve and volley. It just sort of naturally came through.

Speaker 1

That's interesting. I feel like for most people listening, who are a lot of adult club level players, they're much more comfortable losing a point from the baseline than losing a point at the net, and it sounds like you're the opposite. So many people are pretty content to sit back and rally with somebody who they clearly can't out rally, but it feels just, for whatever reason, more comfortable to sit back and rally and lose the point back there and lose the match back there than try to get to the net or change something up. But you had the recognition to. You know, I'm not comfortable hitting a forehand. I'm going to get in there and if I lose points we'll see what happens.

Speaker 2

Yeah, I mean it sounds funny, but there was nothing more terrifying to me than having to hold a cross-court rally with the person at net threatening me, even if that person was standing in the alley not doing anything, just the court. In college. To me it looked like you know, we joke, there's an ocean and I felt like I had a river. And you know, as I got better and got more comfortable and we made those additions during COVID and sort of reworked some of the groundies, it got better. But you know the the level of ball striking at the top of the women's tour is absurd. It's absolutely absurd. I mean, even just seeing it from Sophie early on, I was I knew pretty quick no, I'm not ever going to hit a ball like that. I don't want to be in a cross rally with you, but I'll come in and you can hit as hard as you want with me volleying and we'll do that all day.

Speaker 2

So it yeah, it was just always way easier for me and ended up accidentally being something proactive, even though it was honestly me just trying to hide something I didn't have.

Speaker 1

Yeah, what? Uh, if somebody listening wants to develop a servant volley, how would you get them started on that? Let's say they're, you know, an adult club player and they serve and stay back every time, how would they get going on the servant volley?

Speaker 2

Honestly, I'd I'd probably take the racket out first. I've had some yips, I suppose, in my career, where all of a sudden I had a couple of weeks I think a year ago where I just felt like I forgot how to do it, which is the craziest phenomenon for anyone who hasn't experienced the yips. But it's a real thing. The way we got it back was starting from the beginning.

Keys to Success at the Net

Speaker 2

We took the racket out of my hand, I mimicked a service motion with my hand, just did the footwork to come in, really got my split and I would just catch it, literally catch a ball out in front with my hands again, just to get back to the tracking, to get back to the appropriate footwork, to get back to timing my split step to when my coach would make contact with the feed. Get back to timing my split step to when my coach would make contact with the feed. And it did wonders for me actually when we removed the tennis of it and just put it back to being it's just a coordinated athletic movement. I'm unique in that sense. Like that's kind of my growing up story. I felt like I was a better athlete than I was tennis player and for me that worked. But I think just breaking it down into the feet and the timing is way more important than necessarily the quality of the volley early on or the speed I have to get into the net.

Speaker 1

So with that, the coach is feeding from cross court like simulating the return basically. Yeah, and you're kind of getting low and just catching the ball with your right hand, like for a forehand volley, and your left hand for a backhand volley pretty much.

Speaker 2

Yeah, he'd stand back there he's. He's also trying to mimic the the timing as well as he could as well. So I'm obviously doing it on air. But I'm shadowing a serve. He's pretending to match the timing of that serve to the return. He's feeding in the return to me. I'm hitting my split step right as he's making contact with that feed or return and then I'm just catching it right out in front of me.

Speaker 1

Okay, got it. What about a half volley, like if it bounces? That's just part of the drill too. You just got to catch it on the short hop deal honestly.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's something I I would do generally just to help my half volley, because if you can do that with your hands, you can do it with a hundred square inch racket.

Speaker 1

So yeah same concept yeah, awesome, um, uh. What are some other keys to playing at the net? It sounds like you've said a few times that's where you're most comfortable. Is there anything that's like you've learned over the years, that you've developed over the years at the net that could apply to some of the listeners games?

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think the biggest I don't know hack to the system, if you will, I've gotten and truly appreciated is how much influence I have at the net even when I'm not touching the ball, or, in general, how much influence I can have over a point when I'm not touching the ball, I'm not touching the ball.

Speaker 2

So in my positioning, in my activity, even you know, the Dave, my one of my coaches, likes to use this, this line we don't want activity without achievement, but there's certain things that I can do up there, even when the ball's not coming to me, that can have tremendous influence on the point.

Speaker 2

Just in the pressure I'm creating in making that cross court or that line rally feel small, in the aggression honestly in my feet. I mean, if I'm a baseliner and I see someone at net who's either not necessarily squeaking out of being a jerk, but I see someone being super active, that that sits in my head, that plants a seed of doubt and that makes the quality of my cross or maybe the decision-making of my cross ball just a little bit worse. And so I think, yeah, just the awareness at all times of what direction the point is going, who has offense, what the geometry of the court is looking like and how I with my positioning being that close, because when you are at the net you are the closest person to the other side how much stress and pressure I can create, even if the ball isn't on my strings.

Speaker 1

Yeah. Yeah, that's a super important point for the listeners because so many people think they stink at the net because they don't have good volleys. But a lot of times you don't even have to have that good of volleys and you can still have a big influence on the match. There's I would love to like get a match tagged or charted at the club level and kind of count this, but I would guarantee that there's matches where the net player misses half of their volleys and still has an influence on the match because they don't.

Speaker 1

What people are so bad at attributing, I feel like, is all the times where they poach, where they apply pressure to the middle and force an error from the opponent, and that's one of those times. You're talking about where they're. They're moving towards the middle, they're being aggressive, forcing an error, but not giving themselves credit for that. Maybe it's partly credit from Sophie's big forehand as well, but they work together right. Like it's if you had hugged the alley and Sophie hits the big forehand. Maybe the ball comes back and Sophie hits the big forehand. Maybe the ball comes back, but Sophie has the big forehand, and then you're pressuring the middle and that combination forces there.

Speaker 2

Absolutely. I mean the team I coach over at CMS in my free time from the tour. That's one of the biggest things I remember driving home to them when we were first sort of installing what we wanted our doubles to look like was anytime I saw someone give pressure, I would stop a drill and give kudos. That was you. I know you didn't touch the ball. I know you think, oh, you just shuffled. You might have even have been scared to take that volley. You won that point and you didn't do anything but get in the right spot and hold your racket up like you were ready. Anything but get in the right spot and hold your your racket up like you were ready. Um, but yeah, just the. It's one of those things that helped me, even when I felt like I wasn't playing good tennis or I wasn't striking a ball. Well was knowing a significant amount of this match is getting played without you touching the ball and you're going to be the absolute best at at that then. So it's been great.

Speaker 1

Are there some good um drills or maybe situational games for playing at the net? So let's say, like I'm at the net, my partner's at the baseline, uh, a lot of people ask me you know, I don't know when to move or where to move and I don't have a lot of confidence when I'm up there. What are some drills or games that we can do to improve that confidence and that skill level up there? Do you have any favorites?

Speaker 2

For myself, a lot of it is timing and, honestly, confidence. I mean the margin for error, timing wise at the top is so slim that if you even fall half a second or a quarter of a second off else on the other side just to having them rally cross. And sometimes it's me just progressing sort of through that cycle the word we use for it was the Rouleau triangle when I was explaining it to my team of when I'm pressuring, when I'm covering and when I'm protecting kind of the alley. So sometimes I'll break it down just to getting the timing right of that cycle and then decide all right, I'm going to go through that cycle once and on the second ball I'm going to go get it. But just things that isolate and break down the timing I feel like are the most helpful for me when it comes to the movement Can you go through that triangle real quick.

Speaker 1

So pressuring is when we're forward.

Speaker 2

Pressuring. Yeah, so if we're picturing the triangle, it's hard to describe. I have a visual, maybe you can post it.

Speaker 1

We'll link to it in the show notes. Yeah, we'll link to it in the show notes. Yeah, we'll include it yeah, pressuring would be.

Speaker 2

you know right, as my opponent baseliner and we're talking about a standard one-up, one-back cross rally is making contact.

Speaker 2

So this is where, whether I'm fully poaching or not, I'm at least going to go towards that net strap, towards the center t, to make them feel like they have to get the ball past me.

Speaker 2

The minute that ball gets past me, I recognize that the next biggest threat is going to be my net opponent, or so my opponent who's at the net, because as my partner hits the ball, that's the first person who's got an opportunity to put hands on it. So I'm now backing up in my triangle, sort of to around that center T spot. I don't really like thinking of it that way, it's more just covering that middle hole that's become open. The minute I see that that ball has cleared the net person, my next threat is the baseliner. So that's where I'm making my final move in that triangle to show, all right, I'm defending my line, my line's not wide open and whole thing resets. And obviously things change at any given moment based on geometry, what I'm seeing, what my opponents have shown for their tendencies during the course of the match. But that's that general progression I'm running through on a basic point.

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, and I think the part at the end there is super important that you know there's a lot of variables and you're not always necessarily following the exact same triangle, because something a lot of players do at the club level is they have these same movement patterns at the net every time because their coach taught them this triangle and they just go through the triangle. And then what that does for the baseline player these same movement patterns at the net every time because their coach taught them this triangle and they just go through the triangle and then what that does for the baseline player is it means the baseline player on the other side of the net knows exactly where you're going to be all the time and it makes it so easy for them to avoid you. So so you have to create, like all these variations off of this triangle, but it's kind of a general framework to start with like all these variations off of this triangle, but it's kind of a general framework to start with.

Speaker 2

Exactly, yeah, I, and that was the thing that was why, even describing it, I it's tough to do it just speaking about it, right Cause. Then it does get broken down into oh, I'm supposed to stand here, I'm supposed to stand here, hit my mark hit my mark, and it's. It's not that, it's absolutely not that. It's just the framework that you're making your adjustments within, but it's very much dictated by who has the ball, who you're playing, what their strengths are you know where the ball landed and, yeah, I, even with my team.

Speaker 2

We we've had to remove that. Sometimes I've had to tell them hey, forget the triangle, and they'll laugh at what are you talking about? You spent a year teaching it to us and I went no, no, it's officially become a triangle to you. And that's not what it is. It was a framework, but it's funny how people comprehend it and implement it into their games because it sounds simple but it's not.

Speaker 1

Yeah, definitely. What about serve formations? Let's talk about that a little bit Obviously. At the pro level there's a lot of I formation run. How do you think about using I versus regular? When to use each, what are some advantages and disadvantages to each?

Speaker 2

So you probably know the stat on this. Do you know what the I?

Speaker 1

I don't know what the average length of a doubles point is uh, it's like three point, it depends on the surface, but like 3.4, something like that.

Speaker 2

So it's low. I mean, I remember hearing it in singles absurdly low as well.

Speaker 1

But singles is like 3.8 or something. It's like yeah, so it's, it's tiny.

Speaker 2

It's the amount of serve plus one. That that is is is crazy. And for how much work we do on I gotta make 100 balls past the service line. It's, it's hilarious.

Strategies for Doubles Tennis Success

Speaker 2

But yeah um, yeah, I mean, I think it's understanding that having the utmost respect for the fact that the majority of your match is being played within the serve and the return and the first ball makes that that much more important. And you know, I I will admit this on a podcast I've never been a confident returner. I'm getting better, I've been forced to get better, but I just was. There was a lot going on. I told you I didn't like to be back at the baseline, definitely didn't want to be back there while you were serving 115 at me and someone was at net hunting me. But that helped me sort of understand that.

Speaker 2

Then, from the other side, when I'm the server and recognize if I can create stress before we've even started the point I'm absolutely going to. So you know, some of it, I think, gets determined by tendencies you're seeing in the match. You know, if I see someone who's having a hard time getting their forehand cross, I might have more or less reason to throw a formation that forces them to get there. But you know it's for me it's just how much stress or what formation in this moment is going to cause you the most stress, and sometimes that becomes as simple as I'm just going to keep changing the look. I'm going to show you normal, then I'm going to show you I, then I'm going to show you Aussie, just because I want your brain spinning Sometimes.

Speaker 2

It's ah, I know you don't have a return line. I know truly, it's for all deuce. There's no chance you're going to pull this one, so I'm going deuce. There's no chance you're gonna pull this one, so I'm gonna force you to pull it and it's. It's sort of playing with that and I. I guess for me the. The main thing I'm evaluating is how much stress I'm gonna create in my opponent's mind with the, the call I make on any given moment.

Speaker 2

So sometimes it's not I, sometimes people love it mean the amount of girls. I'll just absolutely salivate at the chance to rip one straight through is high, but yeah, it's. How much stress can I create with you just sitting there as my six foot two Sophie Chang partner is bouncing the ball and getting ready to pop one at you?

Speaker 1

yeah, yeah, I think, um, taking away certain returns is something at every level that's super important and it's something I've found. So when I study, like when I go and watch like some usta players who are like 4-0 or whatever, just adult club players, it's very easy. It takes me probably three returns to find out like which one they can't hit. So if I hit somebody, see somebody hit three forehand returns, I'll know like okay, they will not take that ball down the line. Or three backhand returns, I'll immediately know. At the pro level it takes me a little bit longer to find.

Speaker 2

Right, there's just less holes.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I have to like look at the data and all this stuff.

Speaker 1

So it's a lot harder to find.

Speaker 1

But the club level it's just so easy to find and if people start to see that stuff they can figure out how to use these formations to take away the cross and serve to a certain spot.

Speaker 1

Or one thing I've actually been playing with even more, because at the club level a lot of players don't have control over their serve, so they can't call like a body backhand serve, right. So what they can do is just call a body serve, if you even have that, and then, just as the net player, you stare at the returner and as soon as you see them turn to a particular side, that dictates your movement based on what you know about them. So, like I know, most returners are tending to hit the return across their body. So it's like if they're in the deuce court they turn to that backhand side. I know it might come line, so I might not be as aggressive or if they turn to that forehand side it's probably going cross, so I'm going to pinch hard. So that's, that's kind of another way you can do it out of, I guess, the regular formation in that case, or even I.

Speaker 2

I love that I actually on. Before, when I was still in college, vanya king was still playing and she would be over in carson and sometimes just needed a fourth body and I would come join in and play some practice points with her and she was the first person I had ever seen make that call where she'd go. I'm serving body. If they take a forehand, you're going right.

Speaker 2

If they take a backhand, you're going oh interesting it was absurd to me because I'm like wait, that ball is coming fast and I got to make that call. But it was. It was actually really great, like just adding that extra level because it gave you an extra second of something to process. Like I got to see my partner's feet and set up before I had to decide which way I was going was going to inform my decision that much more. And it's one of those that I was tough to do at the speed that we're playing at, unless you're playing with a consistent partner, because there is a certain level of trust and awareness and you know just processing ability that you need to have in order to make sure you don't go the same way and just give up a point. But that was we used to, I think so often I would call it like a contingency play or I think we call it like the sparkle player.

Speaker 1

That makes sense. Sparkle play.

Speaker 2

Sparkle play Cause I'd kind of throw my hands like like this, and it wasn't. It was like I don't know, I'm sparkling.

Speaker 1

Cause I'm going to gonna go left. I might go right, who knows, that's interesting. Okay, I hadn't heard anybody use that before I started doing it recently, just because I I kind of just thought of it. Um, yeah, that's. That's interesting to hear that's used at the pro level too and I guess something else that came to mind as you were saying.

Speaker 1

That is like it.

Tennis Player Injury and Recovery Progress

Speaker 1

It actually kind of can force the net player, the servers partner, to focus more on the returner, because they're what so many of us do and I I still do it. All the time is like our tendency is just to continue to follow the ball, because we're like or at least me like, when I'm on the doubles court sometimes I feel like I'm a dog chasing a tennis ball and I just like can't stop staring at the ball. But it forces you to focus on the returner and see as soon as they turn that particular direction. Like. I've got to study that, because if I'm staring at the ball, I'm going to get that information a lot later, but if I'm staring at them, I'm going to get that information earlier and I can be to my spot earlier and the volley will be a lot easier Right earlier and I can be to my spot earlier and the volley will be a lot easier. So that's a yeah, that's a really good play that I think I haven't taught people a lot, but I'm going to start using that one a lot more.

Speaker 1

I like that. All right. So let's wrap up here. What are? We'll go through a few rapid fire questions but share with the listeners kind of your plans for the rest of the year. I know you're kind of recovering from injury. We talked about this a little bit before we started recording. But for people who are curious and want to follow you, talk to us about your plans for the rest of the year.

Speaker 2

Yeah, so it's a bit up in the air just because I did suffer a pretty bad ankle injury. Yeah, so it's a bit up in the air just because I did suffer a pretty bad ankle injury and you know it's at the moment looking like something I should be able to make a full recovery from. I mean, sports are brutal, tennis is tough, so you never know. But so far doctors, pts and everyone are happy with the progress.

Speaker 2

It's just sort of moving a little bit slowly and part of that is when you have an ankle injury, the greatest they like to say the greatest predictor of a recurrence is the initial.

Speaker 2

So once you've rolled your ankle, once the likelihood you're going to do it again goes up, which means the more time and energy I give it in its kind of remolding process now and the amount of attention we can give it in PT and rebuilding kind of the other structures in my ankle to help protect me will end up paying off better in the long run if I give it more time and do more of that steady work now. So you know my schedule will depend on how I'm feeling there. I started jogging on the treadmill today actually, which was a big jump, so you know, it could be something where I can come back later this year. It might be something where I'm waiting a little bit longer and reconditioning it and starting up again next year, but in the meantime I actually I'm going to start actually working with a lot of club level doubles, players over at Mountain.

Speaker 2

Country Club in Brentwood, california. So I'm going to be over there a few times a week just coaching and working with them, working with some of the junior players and watching some football and playing some golf.

Speaker 1

Nice. It sounds like a lot of fun. I'll have to come out there and visit. That sounds cool For sure. So yeah, I guess one thing that came to mind when you mentioned the ankle injury and stuff is it's good that you know you see a lot of these doubles players playing into like their mid and late 30s. If that's something you want to do I mean it seems like you've got time to um time to do that- so, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2

I'm only 26 right now, so there's uh as much time as I'd like to continue writing it out there for me.

Speaker 1

Yeah, for sure. Um, all right. What is your favorite tennis book?

Speaker 2

I liked open a lot. I liked the just brutal honesty of how tough this really is being laid on the table.

Speaker 1

Yeah, that was a really good one. Favorite non-tennis book.

Speaker 2

This sounds really dorky. It's a basic book. It's the Fault in Our Stars. It was my favorite book when I was younger and I have a tattoo of Sisyphus kind of hidden funny enough on my bad ankle. It's the biggest universe laughing at me thing ever. I have Sisyphus character on my ankle, pushing my ankle bone, which is the boulder on the ankle that I injured and that came from reading the Fault in Our Stars when I was 13 or 14. So I'll go with that as my favorite, just because it seems to have influenced my life the greatest.

Speaker 1

Oh, my gosh and the boulder like swelled up after you rolled your ankle. I'm sure you know what?

Speaker 2

I have a better one for you the sniper's mind. The sniper's mind is going to be my favorite. That one is a kind of psychology book that a sports psychologist at USC had recommended to me and shaped a lot of how I approach tennis and, honestly, life in general.

Speaker 1

Okay, I haven't read that one. I'll link to that in the show notes and I'll check it out. Yeah, I saw your, I think, on your Instagram bio. You majored in psychology or something, or applied psychology, is that right?

Speaker 2

Yeah, my undergrad was cognitive science, which was mostly psychology, and a few other courses in linguistics, and then my master's was in applied psychology. So I'm very. That was what I would have pursued if I wasn't going to play pro tennis.

Speaker 1

Does that help your tennis game Like? Does that help you during, like preparing for matches and pressure moments and stuff?

Speaker 2

Absolutely For myself and, honestly, on a doubles court like this, this sounds funny, but I've always felt like doubles is weirdly personal in a way, just, I think, based on the proximity and the physicality of it, just in general. I mean, I don't know if it was actually in open or if it's maybe um the inner game of tennis, but there was some line about tennis being boxing. At what is it? 72 feet? Is that baseline to baseline?

Speaker 1

yeah some.

Speaker 2

It's a shame that I don't know these numbers.

Speaker 1

That sounds familiar. I don't remember which book that was either.

Speaker 2

I'll hunt for it after we're done. But yeah, doubles, just the fact that you are so much closer to each other, the fact that you're never aiming to injure someone, but when you're at net your target is literally someone's body most of the time, and all the flying by your face and just the amount of adrenaline and cortisol that comes through you, I think has a lot more effect sometimes or in certain situations on a doubles court than even singles, because you are literally physically threatened. I mean the times when I'm at the net and I recognize that the problem isn't my hands weren't fast enough, it was actually. It was a natural body response, it was a fear response because someone had a sitter on top of the net and is about to fire right at my face, is gonna cause me to tense up and jump up. I've literally done hours of work in trying to train that reaction out of me.

Speaker 2

So it didn't seem like it was tennis practice, but it was straight up. Can I learn how to kind of subdue that natural fear response and stay relaxed so that my hands have a better chance to go up and get the ball? So stuff like that I dorked out about psychology. Sometimes just straight up the play calling. You know I might know someone can hit their return line, but I know in a big moment like this, if I stand on that line and get you know a few inches closer to the net and just make eye contact, that I'm going to increase stress.

Speaker 2

So I love actually playing with with those factors and it's fun that doubles lets me do that or gives me a different canvas to paint that on than singles would have.

Speaker 1

Okay, we're doing a round two at some point on the psychology of doubles, that is a topic we can go deep on. What is your favorite tournament?

Speaker 2

Wimbledon. I mean I had the opportunity to play that for the first time last year and that I mean, if anything was too much for me. When I got there the first day I remember my eyes kept watering and I kept telling everyone it was allergies because of all the flowers, but it was totally just a surreal. This is a real place, really just a surreal. This is a real place. And yeah, I mean even my match. I felt like my feet were never really on the ground at any point and it's a little bit where I get mad as a professional. Like, well, you know, that was my fourth Grand Slam. At the time you gotta be ready to play and I was. Obviously I competed as hard as I could, but I do remember that kind of knocking the wind out of me in a different way than any any other slam really had. It just felt that sacred to be on those grounds.

Speaker 1

Wow, how can we make doubles more popular? I you you knew this was coming.

Speaker 2

I know, I know you, you have the literal answers to it. I it frustrates me so much because I, I think doubles actually is so entertaining, it's so much quicker. Again, it's physical, it's it's personal, as I guess, as I hot take called it there, but I just think the marketing for it needs to be better. I just, I mean, if you look at pickleball, my best friend is a pro pickleball player and, from what I understand, doubles is actually it in. In pickleball, doubles is the main thing and singles is sort of the, the afterthought. So I really just think it's the promotion of it, it's, you know, instilling in the minds of younger, up-and-coming players and newer fans how entertaining and quick and exciting it can be getting the you know the another hot take.

Speaker 2

I feel like the doubles player personalities on tour are kind of incredible like they, they might be better than the singles ones, and maybe it is just because the nature of doubles is a little different and shapes our minds and our behaviors a little bit. But I just think so much more can go into promoting the doubles players, giving more TV time to doubles matches and just. It's not even increasing awareness. Everyone knows there is doubles, but actually showcasing the speed and fun of it on bigger platforms would make the biggest difference.

Speaker 1

Yeah, totally agree. Yeah, I think I am curious about the awareness part because I want to. I'm going to do this in New York. I've talked about it too long, but I want to stand outside the gates and talk to and, like, interview people. We'll film it and say are you here to watch the singles or the doubles?

Speaker 1

I think I think some people don't know that the doubles is happening. Really do I do. I think some people just go into ash ash, sit into ash all day and like never know that there's a doubles tournament going on yeah, maybe I'm wrong.

Speaker 2

Maybe I'm wrong like the one where they ask people do you think you could win a game against novak? Like one of those formats of just pulling and say, yeah, that'd be good, yeah, good.

Speaker 1

Yeah, I got to do that this year. I definitely think it might be true of like the later stages, like in the like Friday, saturday, sunday, like semis and finals, since they they have the you know women's doubles final on the same day as the men's singles final, and I would love to interview people walking into that. Are you here to watch the men's singles or the women's doubles and see how many of them know that there's women's doubles that day? Because I don't. I don't believe that it's on the ticket when they buy. I think it just says like session whatever. I bet they don't know that it exists or that it that it's happening like on that same day, like right before or after.

Speaker 2

Yeah, that's a good point.

Speaker 1

Anyways, all your points are correct. The marketing is definitely number one. Awesome, Angela. Any final requests of the audience before we hop off here.

Speaker 2

Requests of the audience.

Speaker 1

Requests or comments or anything.

Speaker 2

Requests of the audience, requests or comments or anything. Play more doubles. Talk to your friends about doubles. Talk to your friends about doubles players.

Speaker 1

That's right. Play more doubles, watch more doubles, all of it.

Speaker 2

Awesome.

Speaker 1

Well, thanks a ton. This was a lot of fun. We'll definitely do a round two on the psychology of doubles, because that fascinates me. I love that and hopefully we'll see you back out on the court here in the next several months or so.

Speaker 1

You will Thanks a ton Bye. So after we stopped recording, angela remembered this framework that she came up with that helps people improve their strategy on the doubles court, and I decided that we would record that. So you're about to hear the four minute recording of her kind of talking through that framework with me. It's called her GAT framework and I will let Angela describe how it works and how you can use it for your own game.

Speaker 2

We're going to hit it now.

Speaker 2

If I were ever teaching a one-on-one course on doubles so I came up with it in college and sort of tweaked it and fine-tuned it as I kept playing. But the, the abcs of it is gat, it's geometry ability tendency. So for me, when I'm playing any given point, when I'm watching any given shot, I'm evaluating on those three filters I suppose. So geometry being the first one is all right. If I pull my opponent wide with a serve this one is universal Geometry dictates they're going to have a little bit more angle on the cross, they're going to have a little bit less on the line. That already tells me one part of the court I don't need to worry about. Then I step to the next level, which is ability. So let's say I'm playing someone who's got a one-handed backhand and I know if I have a ball up on their shoulder they're going to have a harder time pulling that inside.

Winning Percentages in Tennis Strategy

Speaker 2

In Boom I filtered to half the court. Now I have an even better idea of where I need to be. And then, once I filtered to, that, it's tendency. So then it's all right.

Speaker 2

Over the course of this match how many times have I actually seen so-and-so hit this ball or lob this return?

Speaker 2

And if I can filter out those three levels generally I can get a pretty damn good idea of what ball is coming to me, and if I can do that with every single ball being hit to me over the course of a match, it does over time. I mean I feel like if I was AI it would be perfect. But I'm able to filter so much through that I start predicting what my opponent is doing, not because I have some incredible intuition, but because I have so much data that I'm collecting and processing through literally every single point that I know what's happening before it happens. And again, that's the quirkiness. I said the strategy of doubles I love getting into, but for me, becoming a true double specialist, mastering doubles in general, comes down to that. If you have full mastery in my head of geometry, you're a doubles player, because that one is a universal rule. If you can start getting good enough to where you're processing the ability and the tendency every single shot. Now we're talking professional level player IQ.

Speaker 1

Yeah yeah, and the percentages here are so important too. Right, like like Federer just did a speech at some graduation thing and he talked about how he won 80 percent of his matches but only 54 percent of his points and it's like you can get this GAT thing right every single time and it might get you from 50% to like 55% of the points, but that is a huge jump 5% of points.

Speaker 1

It's an enormous jump, even though it doesn't seem like a lot. Because, yeah, I mean because my tendency is to pull my backhand across my body, like I can still hit the line one. I'm just not as good at it. So, like you're making me hit the thing, that's not my tendency, which is going to be lower percentage, and it just all kind of adds up. But if you trust that process, it seems like that makes tons of sense, that it'll kind of tilt the odds in your favor just a little bit.

Speaker 2

Right and that's all you need. You don't really need to win 70%. I mean generally, when I'm making these calls I recognize there is inherently a risk reward in every decision I make. I'm honestly looking for 51. If I win 50, tennis is weird, you can lose and I've lost a few matches having one more points. But generally speaking, I mean same thing. I coach to my players when they get frustrated I'm missing every poach. I'm like I promise in 10, you'll make six. You're good enough, we're the number one team in the country for a reason. You'll make six. It's okay if you miss four. But yeah, I mean doubles typically. I feel like just falls in the way of the person that's understanding and managing that best and when you understand you are allowed to miss. As long as you just tip the scale ever so slightly, you play that much more freely and things tend to go your way.

Speaker 1

Yeah, absolutely, very well said.