The Bookshop Podcast
The Bookshop Podcast
Translating Italian Literature: A Journey with Oonagh Stransky
In this episode, I chat with translator Oonagh Stransky about her love of the Italian language, the importance of small presses, Héloïse Press, and the art of translating books to English.
Oonagh Stransky has translated a range of fiction and nonfiction writers, including Roberto Saviano, Pier Paolo Pasolini, Giuseppe Pontiggia, and Carlo Lucarelli. Her work has received important prizes and nominations. Born in Paris, Stransky grew up in the Middle East, London, and the United States and attended Mills College, Middlebury College, and Columbia University. A member of PEN American Center and the American Literary Translators Association, she currently lives in Tuscany.
Hi, my name is Mandy Jackson-Beverly and I'm a bibliophile. Welcome to the Bookshop Podcast. Each week, I present interviews with authors, independent bookshop owners and booksellers from around the globe and publishing professionals. To help the show reach more people, please share episodes with friends and family and on social media, and remember to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to this podcast. You're listening to episode 278. Uno Stransky has translated a range of fiction and non-fiction writers, including Roberto Saviano, pier Paolo Pasolini, giuseppe Pontigia and Carlo Luccarelli. Her work has received important prizes and nominations. Born in Paris, stransky grew up in the Middle East, london and the United States and attended Mills College, middlebury College and Columbia University. A member of PEN American Center and the American Literary Translators Association, una currently lives in Tuscany. Hi, una, and welcome to the show. It's lovely to have you here.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you so much, Mandy. It's wonderful to be here.
Speaker 1:I thoroughly enjoyed reading Abandonment. What a beautiful story. It was written in Italian by Erminia del Oro and translated by yourself and published by Eloise Press in Canterbury in the UK Definitely one of my favorite books of the year. But before we talk about Abandonment, let's begin by learning about where you were born and raised and what first led you to Florence, Italy, and becoming a translator of Italian literature.
Speaker 2:Oh, thank you. It's a pretty long story and I will try and capture it the best way I can. So I was born in Paris. My parents were both American and we traveled around a lot because of my father's work. I lived in Beirut, in Jeddah and in London before going to boarding school for a couple of years outside of Boston, and then I went to college in California.
Speaker 2:I heard languages as a result of traveling and also at home Arabic and French and at home my father spoke Czech with his mom and I studied French throughout school, and my stepmother is French, so we spoke French at home and French became one of the key languages in my life, in the sense that it was one of the languages I was studying for my comparative literature major at college, but I never really felt a connection to French the way that I felt with Italian, and the first time I went to Italy was when I was 19. It was winter break from college and I went to visit an elderly woman who was a close friend of my grandmother's and something about the language just electrified me. It was amazing. So I got back to college afterwards after this great visit with her and in her city, and I decided that I had to learn Italian, and that meant taking classes At my college. They didn't offer Italian, so I cross-registered at Berkeley and I took classes there and I joined an.
Speaker 1:Italian club and what age were you when you decided to start learning Italian?
Speaker 2:So I was about 19 when I started learning Italian seriously, and one of the key things that I did to help me learn Italian was I applied to go to Middlebury College Summer Language Program. I don't know if you've ever heard of them, but it's a great summer intensive program where you promise to only speak Italian, and I got a wonderful grounding in grammar and it positioned me very well for learning language later on. And then I went to Italy for my junior year abroad and I studied at the University of Florence and I had a great time. And after college, when I graduated in 1989, I moved back to Italy and so I lived there or here, rather, for about five years, outside of Florence, this time in the countryside, so that was really special.
Speaker 2:After moving back to New York in well gosh, what was it then? 1994, I started translating. Only several years later it must have been seven or eight years later First very short pieces and then longer pieces, and then in about 2000 or 1999 or 2000, I got my first contract for my first book length translation, and it's crazy to think that now it's been 24 years that I've been translating what I love about translation and Italian, because the Italian was already there. I knew that I wanted to work in Italian. But is that translation kind of welds together my love for literature, for stories and books? Reading was a very big part of my childhood because it allowed me to sort of disappear into a world that was entirely my own. And translation also allows me to weld that love of literature with a love for books as objects. So something that I studied while I was in college was book arts and everything about letterpress, printing and typography and bookbinding, and so all of these things sort of confer together in translation.
Speaker 1:I've got a quick question for you.
Speaker 2:When you were a little girl, what language did your parents read to you in? Was it English? When I learned to read, I would spend a long time on my own reading and I just loved that. I remember the physical sensation of holding the oversized storybooks in my hand, the fairy tales in my hands, and looking at the pictures and tracing with my finger along the words. Yeah, reading was very precious to me. Since we moved a lot. Seeing my books get packed up and then reappear in a new house was very important in terms of continuity. It allowed me to feel like oh, this is my room now. Okay, I have my things, my books are here, so I am here. I know that sounds crazy for a kid to think like that, but no, it doesn't sound silly at all.
Speaker 1:I imagine that your books helped you feel settled.
Speaker 2:Yes, they helped me settle Exactly.
Speaker 1:Let's move on to the book Abandonment, which you translated from the original text by Herminia del Oro from Italian to English. This book is beautifully written and it won the English Pen Award. What drew you to translate this book and how difficult was it to find a publisher?
Speaker 2:All of those are really great questions. So this book originally was published in 1991. So it's actually a relatively old book. I first read it in 2002. And well, I don't know, something just happened.
Speaker 2:I was immediately blown away by the story and how it was written. It's about poverty and hardship, it's about trauma that gets passed down, it's about being biracial and not feeling accepted and mostly it's about really wanting to find out who you are and going after that. I guess what especially made me want to translate it was the writing was absolutely enchanting. I found it. It just drew me in.
Speaker 2:I love this story because it's a survival story. The main character there are actually two, mother and daughter, salas and Mariana. But Mariana survives terrible hardships on a daily basis. She listens to her inner voice and her dreams. She constantly questions the world around her and she stops at nothing to seek answers. So those elements, they really spoke to me. I was also drawn to this book by its descriptions of Eritrea, in particular of the natural world. It's a country that has long fascinated me and I really liked the way that DeLoro describes how nature impacts the soul of the people. Nature is as important as the characters. Sometimes you get that feeling. Then there's the style of writing which I mentioned before, which shifts from these great descriptions and sensorial writing to a lyrical passages filled with dreams and creation stories and marginalized figures and outsiders. It's a tapestry of life, really.
Speaker 1:Yes, and it's based on a true story.
Speaker 2:Exactly so. Herminia del Oro, who was born in Eritrea and lived there for much of her life but then moved to Milan and now lives in Milan, was approached one day by a woman who is the inspiration for the figure of Mariana. There's a letter, and a letter that exists, and the letter was inspiration for Herminia to construct this story.
Speaker 1:So it is based on a true story, but it does also draw on Herminia de Loro's masterful storytelling skills and for anyone interested in purchasing a copy of Abandonment at a 40% discount, please go to the EloisePresscom website. That's H-E-L-O-I-S-E-P-R-E-S-Scom. Click on the catalog, click on the cover of Abandonment. Bookshopscom Click on the catalog, click on the cover of Abandonment and, as you check out, the discount code is the word bookshop B-O-O-K-S-H-O-P, and that will be applied at checkout and you'll get your 40% discount. Thanks, ina at Heloise Press, for doing that. It's great. Okay, una, how difficult was it for you to find a publisher to take on this project?
Speaker 2:It was very difficult. So, like I said, I read it in 2002. I was traveling to Milan in 2003. And so I wrote to her, to Herminia De Loro, and I said may I meet with you? And we had hot chocolate in a cafe in the Brera section of Milan and I was just. I was really amazed by this wonderful woman. She was extremely gracious, very low key, she was not presumptuous at all, and I told her I loved her book and that I wanted to try and translate it. Now, keep in mind that at that point, 2003, I had only translated one or maybe two books by then, so I was a newbie and she didn't have to say, oh, yes, by all means. But she did, she encouraged me, she said oh, I'm so grateful to you for anything that you can do for this book and for the story of Mariana and for Celeste. So here we are, 2024.
Speaker 2:And it took me this long or actually the book was finished a year ago, but it took me this long to find a publisher for it, and the reason for that is that people didn't really know what to do with it. So I pitched it, because translators periodically are asked by publishers to translate books and occasionally they also pitch books to publishers. And occasionally they also pitch books to publishers. And I pitched this book to mainstream publishers and editors and they turned it down because they couldn't see how it fit in with the rest of their books. I approached academic presses and they said, oh, we love this book but we have no money for it. And I took it to workshops that I took part in and I got great feedback. Everybody really enjoyed it. And then, about three years ago, I guess now, a couple of fellow translators told me about Heloise Press, and so I approached Aina Marti about it and said she accepted. And ever since then it's just been one exciting adventure after the other.
Speaker 1:And for listeners, I recommend you go to EloisePresscom. Ina Marti champions worldwide female talent and, as said on their website, Eloise's careful selection of books give voice to emerging and well-established female writers from home and abroad, with a focus on intimate. Establish female writers from home and abroad with a focus on intimate, visceral and powerful narratives. Heloise Press brings together women's stories and literary sophistication, and kudos to Ina Marti for taking on Abandonment, which was the winner of the English Pen Award. It's a brilliant, brilliant book, wonderful story and beautiful translation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she's absolutely doing some phenomenal work at her press and I really applaud her. You know, what she's doing is she's creating a space for books that would otherwise, you know, get ignored or, you know, never be published or never be translated, in my case.
Speaker 1:That's correct and I encourage everyone listening to search out these small and medium presses worldwide, because they are taking a chance on brilliant writers who, as you said, would otherwise not get read. Let's talk about the prose in Abandonment, because it's lyrical, colorful and descriptive. How difficult was this book to translate from Italian to English?
Speaker 2:That's a really interesting question. In my practice in translation, what I like to try and do is I keep notes about all the challenges that I encounter along the way. I found over time that writing these down later is very helpful because it helps me understand the book and it offers me a kind of a key to understanding it, to explaining it to other people. So in the case of Abandonment, one of the hardest parts was, or one of the hardest, most difficult challenges of the translation was capturing the dream sequences in a way that maintained the chimerical tone of the original but that was also understandable for the reader. Then, if you've noticed, there's quite a few words in Tigrina, which is one of the original, but that was also understandable for the reader.
Speaker 2:Then, if you've noticed, there's quite a few words in Tigrinya, which is one of the Eritrean languages in the book. So I had to find a way of blending those words and keeping them in Tigrinya into the text in a very fluid way. I also needed to maintain a gendered use of language for certain objects that are very precious to Salaschi, gives them male and female pronouns. And then I struggled and I hope this comes across, but there's a way that Erminia dell'Oro, used the Italian to hint at or denote the oppressive force that Italy exerted over Eritrea during the colonial period, and so there are certain words that are in the Italian which I carried over into the English that I chose specific words to try and maintain the harshness of the Italian presence in Eritrea, of the Italian presence in Eritrea, Also because, even after the colonial period was over, all the psychological effects of colonialism were still felt for many years.
Speaker 1:Yes, and I think in many cases the deep wounds of colonialism are still raw. It's such a sad time Now. As a translator, do you feel anything from the original writing is lost during translation and do you connect with the author if you struggle with certain words or sentences?
Speaker 2:Well, I tend to think of translation as a recreation of a book, right?
Speaker 2:So if I've been very faithful and creative at the same time which seems like an oxymoron, but it's not If I understand and I feel and I experience the book as well as I possibly can, and then I try and hopefully manage to relay those ideas and feelings and experiences in English, then I don't feel that anything gets lost.
Speaker 2:No, I see the book as a parallel to the original. I guess the hardest thing some something that it doesn't get lost but it gets changed is that is, wordplay and humor. When I encounter word play and humor in in in a text, often I have to find alternate solutions that work just as well and go down sort of side paths or think laterally instead of just focusing on what the words are. And overall, I guess I would have to say that I enjoy working on my translations without too much author input, which is not to say that I won't ask an author if I don't understand something or the relevance of something or the implications of a certain word and I have done that. I've reached out to authors before. But generally speaking, I like to take my time and work on the translation solo or sola.
Speaker 1:I should say. I've noticed lately that I'm reading more translated books, as are many of my friends, and I'm wondering do you feel translated books are becoming more popular and if so, is this due to publishers responding to reader demand?
Speaker 2:Definitely. One thing I can say is that translation has certainly proliferated and changed a great deal since I started translating 20 years ago. There are a lot more opportunities to talk about translation. There are more courses that people can take to become translators. I think translators are just generally more included right, and that's also thanks to a lot of younger people who are fighting for translators' rights. We owe a lot to people who speak up on behalf of translators and authors themselves, who have earned a certain status and who use that status in a responsible way. I also sometimes wonder, though, whether translators aren't certain kind of superheroes that are influencing the reading habits of people like yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I tend to agree with you. I mean, I would not have read this book had I not been introduced to Eloise Press and Ina Marty through my daughter-in-law, who is a writer and teaches at the University of Cork in Ireland in the creative writing department the University of Cork in Ireland, in the creative writing department. And after a conversation with Ina she introduced me to abandonment. And you know, here we are chatting. But that also brings me to one other question. It's the cadence of the language that draws me to reading translated books. They have a kind of musicality about them. Do you experience this while translating?
Speaker 2:musicality about them. Do you experience this while translating? Well, music is definitely a large part of the craft of translation. When I work, I go through and I do a first draft, and that is. It's a very rough first draft, and then I go back over and over and over it and edit, and edit, and edit, so that, generally speaking, I would say I will go through a book, I'll edit it about six to seven, eight times and until I feel that it is perfectly polished and ready to be sent in.
Speaker 2:But before I send it in, one thing that I always do is I read it out loud. It has to capture the music that the original has, and so this also goes back to the question that we were talking about before, where I read with great care. So translators have to not just know the language and understand the culture and get all the references and do that too, but they just have to read with feeling. It's very important to read with feeling. It's very important to read with feeling. So if the tone is there in the final and if it reads fluidly, then I think it's ready to go.
Speaker 2:I'm ready to send it in. But if there's something that it feels funny or it doesn't sound quite right, or the music, maybe there's a pitch change of some kind that just in Italian we say that makes you trip over it a little bit. Then I'll go back to the original and I'll double check and even very late on in the process I might find oh well, there's that, so let me switch it around. Yeah, so yes, music is very important, also as a practice for the translator to listen.
Speaker 1:In essence, music is another language. Now we've talked about Ina Marty at Heloise Press and the authors she represents and the books, many of which are translated from various languages. How important are small presses such as Heloise Press in the publishing world right now?
Speaker 2:Press in the publishing world right now. Heloise Press is critical for translators because you have a direct channel of communication with an editor, right. So you are working. She's got a ton of things to do, but Ina makes time to talk to you about your work and when she recognizes that something is worthy of being translated, then you feel welcomed. A small press makes you feel like you are stepping into somebody's sitting room, into their living room, and you're working with them and you're conferring with them and planning the book together. It's a great feeling and I also want to mention, since we're talking about Heloise Press so Ina makes the decisions, but the editor on the book was a woman named Ruth Clark and Ruth's work was amazing. So it would be remiss of me not to mention the great job that Ruth did working with me on the translation after I handed it in, you know just like shaping it, and we had some great discussions about the book and about Herminia del Oro and what it means for a woman to write about the colonial period.
Speaker 1:I just thought of a question while I was listening to you and I think you just answered it, though you have multiple editors, obviously, when you're a translator, correct?
Speaker 2:There's an editor who goes through it and she ought to, or usually does. In this case, ruth did speak the language of the book that's being translated so that they can double check things and you work with her closely. And then it gets line edited or proofread by a different editor so that it goes through and Ina is available. We bounce some ideas off of her but generally speaking, she will put the ball back in our court and say you to work it out or decide how you want to handle it. I trust you. Or maybe she'll say no, actually I think this is better, and so we work as a team. It's a team effort in the long run.
Speaker 1:Yes, as it needs to be. Una. What drew you to relocate to Italy?
Speaker 2:So, it's funny, in 2009, I decided to leave New York City, where I was living and working as a teacher of English in the New York City public high schools, to move back to Italy and spend more time translating and still teach, but less time teaching, because I had found that in New York City, with my full-time teaching job, I didn't have the time that I needed to translate. Yes, I had summers, but you also need to unwind and I have children or had children. They're now adults, so I had other things to take care of and to do. But now, well, since I moved back in 2009, I've held down other jobs, but I've tried to put more energy into translation and living here. That has been possible.
Speaker 2:Living in New York City, that wasn't possible for me. I have worked in wineries, I've translated commercial things. Like I said, I've translated everything from legal agreements to love letters in order to make ends meet. But when I have a book, I love to dedicate my time entirely to translating that book and all my energy goes into the literary translations. So in the past I guess in the past what five, six, maybe six or seven years I've been able to only do literary translations and that feels to me like a huge achievement and something that I've only been able to do because I have persisted. I stayed with my dream, which was to translate literature, and I've achieved that, so I'm very happy about that.
Speaker 1:And as you were born in Paris, I'm guessing you had an EU passport.
Speaker 2:No, because actually to have a French passport then and maybe also now, your mother needs to be French. So, and my mother wasn't French. My stepmother was French later, but my mother was American and I married an Italian after college and then I got Italian citizenship through that, which was very helpful and that's such a gift to give to your children.
Speaker 1:I think If you can give them a passport to another country, what a gift.
Speaker 2:Oh yes. Well, they've had a bilingual education their whole life, so good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they are lucky children. While we're talking about Florence, italy, there's a story that I'd like to introduce people to who have not heard of it, and that is the story of the mud angels in Florence. Are you familiar with them? Yes, I found out about the mud angels while I was in Florence. I won't go into the intricate story and synchronicity that helped me find this story, but it was part of a missing link that I needed for a story I was writing and I just want to share it with everyone.
Speaker 1:So in 1966, florence was flooded. The banks of the Arno River broke, the city lost a lot of art and books from the library. I think almost about 100 people died, and it also actually flooded in Venice as well. But I'm just going to stick to Florence for now. So there are a lot of students backpacking around Europe. At the time there were students in Florence from America who were doing a semester abroad, and they ended up helping retrieve artwork and books from the mud that was just feet deep in some of the buildings and the streets. What came out of this tragedy was the advancements made in book conservation and art restoration. In the show notes I'll make sure to put some links to the stories about the mud angels, but it's a part of Florentine history that I think is incredibly important and needs to be remembered. I know I will mispronounce it if I try saying mud angels in Italian Una. Would you say it for me, you could?
Speaker 2:say Angeli del Fango would be the translation of that phrase, but I don't know whether they use that. I've only always heard it in English. Isn't that funny? Maybe because people are referring to themselves or to that period as the Mud Angels, or maybe they were seen as the foreigners who came and lent a hand. I know a lot of university students from all over Europe came.
Speaker 1:Yes, it is a wonderful story For listeners who may be interested in becoming a translator. Could you tell us about any organizations that are helpful, please?
Speaker 2:So there are two very important associations for me. One is the American Literary Translators Association and one is Penn. When I started translating in around 1999, I applied for an American Literary Translators Association fellowship for young translators to travel to the conference. Every year they have a conference and it used to be in a different city around the United States every year and I won this travel fellowship and so I guess it was in 2000,.
Speaker 2:The conference was held in San Francisco and I attended an event and I was surrounded, suddenly surrounded by translators of literature. It was the most amazing experience because I had been thinking about doing this work, I had started working and I had always felt very, very alone in this work and all of a sudden, wonderful people. We were all talking about books. I met other people working in my same language or from my same language into English, and there were some wonderful panels and talks and discussions. And so ever since then, any year that I can actually attend the ALTA conference, I do.
Speaker 2:Since I moved back to Italy, obviously that's been much harder, but I attended one inoston and chicago. There was one in new york, of course, the san francisco one, and then one or two others, and this year, I'm very excited to say, one of the one of my translations is up for the um. It's called the ipta award, so italian prose and translation award, which is governed by alta, and I'm very excited about that. The other association that I am proud to be a part of is Penn, and the reason for that is because it also similarly offered me that community, that sense of community of translators.
Speaker 2:When I lived in New York City, so between the years of 2000 and roughly 2009,. When I was translating I think it was about once a month or once every couple of months there was a translation committee meeting down at their headquarters off of Houston Street, and it was a very small group Maybe there would be 10 of us, maybe 15, but we would sit around a table and we would discuss all the problems that we were dealing with, whether it was publishers or actual textual problems, and then we would all go out for drinks afterwards. So it was a great way to talk, work, talk shop and then just relax and know that there were other people who were going through some of the similar challenges that you were.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's just wonderful being part of a community. I think we're involved with the work that you're doing. Okay, let's talk books. What are you currently reading?
Speaker 2:Actually, since I'm trying to write about what attracted me to Italian in the first place, I've been doing a lot of reading of memoirs and I recently finished A Ghost in the Throat I don't know if you know it by Dorin Negrifa.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that book. In fact, the author, john McGregor, turned me on to it. It's fabulous.
Speaker 2:I absolutely loved it and it shows the intense and the embodied kind of connection that one can have with the text where she translates. But she relates very closely to this text. She literally lives through it. It's a beautiful, beautiful book and so well written. And then recently I started Dog Flowers by Danielle Geller, which is I don't know if you've read that, but it's a beautiful book, also dealing with some very difficult topics and mother-daughter relationship that is very complex. I'm looking at a stack of books here.
Speaker 1:Everyone who is related to writing, publishing in any field of the publishing industry. We all have stacks of books that are sitting on our desks, beside our bed, around the house, in our bookcases, that we both need to read for work and that we also want to read of our own need to read for work and that we also want to read of our own. It's a pretty good problem to have. And, going back to our earlier conversation, books are like friends and they help us feel settled.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely. And new friends too, because when you encounter a book and you're like this book I'm so grateful that I opened this book and I'm reading these pages it can fill you with wonder. Una, are you a?
Speaker 1:rereader.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I am, because I love the first impressions, but I also like to go back and understand what it is that triggered that. Especially as I'm doing more of my own writing now. That is very important to me. Curiously, a book that I have reread many, many times is Moby Dick. I can't explain. I mean, I can't explain, it's just. The prose is amazing and I've always loved that book, since I read it in college. But it's been several years now since I've gone back to it. Maybe I've evolved a little bit. I'm not sure.
Speaker 1:Maybe you finally extracted what you needed out of that prose and now you can move on. Yes, well, I'm the same. I am a rereader, especially of books that just capture me immediately. And, of course, because I interview so many authors, I go back and often reread the books before I get into conversation with them. Whenever I ask this question to authors about rereading books, I always feel a bit sorry for the ones that say no, I don't reread. I feel like they're missing out on secrets. But in your form of work, I'm sure you are used to rereading and rereading and rereading.
Speaker 2:It would be strange for a translator not to be a rereader, since really at the heart of what we do is reading and rereading. It would be strange for a translator not to be a rereader, since really at the heart of what we do is reading and rereading, and editing and re-editing.
Speaker 1:Well, it's been lovely chatting with you, una, and getting to know more about you and translations, and congratulations again on Translating Abandonment, written by Arminia De Lauro and published through Heloise Press in England. Such a beautiful book and I look forward to reading some of your own writing.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, mandy. This has been a wonderful conversation. I really appreciate it. I am very, very grateful and I really am so glad that you read the book and I am very happy that you enjoyed it too. That's the key thing. Kudos to you and congratulations on doing such a great series. I listened to several other episodes and I was really amazed by your commitment and your other guests, how they spoke so eloquently and had so much to share. It's really really well done.
Speaker 1:You've been listening to my conversation with the translator, una Strunsky, about her translation of Herminia Deloro's book Abandonment, published by Heloise Press. To help the show reach more people, please share episodes with friends and family and on social media, and remember to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to this podcast. To find out more about the Bookshop Podcast, go to thebookshoppodcastcom and make sure to subscribe and leave a review wherever you listen to the show. You can also follow me at Mandy Jackson Beverly on X, instagram and Facebook and on YouTube at the Bookshop Podcast. If you have a favorite indie bookshop that you'd like to suggest we have on the podcast, I'd love to hear from you via the contact form at thebookshoppodcastcom. The Bookshop Podcast is written and produced by me, mandy Jackson-Beverly, theme music provided by Brian Beverly, executive assistant to Mandy Adrian Otterhan, brian Beverly, executive assistant to Mandy Adrian Otterhan, and graphic design by Francis Barala. Thanks for listening and I'll see you next time.