Top of the Class
Top of the Class
#13 How to Approach Any Application and be an Effective Student Leader
16-year-old Melbourne student, Magnus Mulhall, was surprised after receiving the 'Best Delegate' award at the Harvard Innovation Challenge but he shouldn't be!
Magnus has interests across the board being a member of the New York Science Academy, a water polo coach, a violinist and an active student leader just to name a few.
In this episode, Magnus discusses what makes applications to any program or leadership position stand out from the crowd and how to make the most of a student leadership position.
- Click here to connect with Magnus on LinkedIn
- Click here to watch this short video from Crimson's leadership expert, Anjali, on developing leadership in high school
- Click here for more information on the New York Academy of Sciences Junior Academy
- Click here for more information about the Harvard Innovation Challenge
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Host's Notes:
This is such a great episode for any current or aspiring student leaders because it can be difficult to know what to do with leadership position once you've got it! It's clear that Magnus has thought through the whole process from application through to execution. His advice on the topic is well worth while for students around the world not to mention his tips on applying for the New York Science Academy!
Hello, and welcome to the Top of the Class podcast. I'm your host, Alex Cork, and in this episode, I chat with Australian student Magnus Mulhall. At 16, Magnus is a member of the New York Academy of Sciences and received the best delegate award at the Harvard University Innovation Challenge. We chat all about crafting applications for any situation, and discuss what it means to be a student leader. Let's chat with Magnus Mulhall. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Top of the Class podcast today. I'm delighted to be chatting with Magnus Mulhall. Is it Mulhall?
Magnus:Yeah, it's Mulhall,
Podcast Host:Mulhall, fantastic. Your I guess what many people might term as well, I term you anyway, as a bit of a consummate all rounder, as someone who's got strengths in sport, music and leadership, you're involved in some different programs and societies. Let's first start off with your interest in sciences, you said you want to be looking at doing medicine in the future. Tell us how like a 16 year old starts setting themselves up for a future in medicine.
Magnus:Yeah, absolutely. So I'm particularly interested in sciences in general. So not just medicine. And I think what brought me to medicine, just to start off with was, you know, it's that crossroad between interacting with people. It's quite a social job if you go into the clinical side of medicine, and then which is something I particularly enjoy. And then also sciences. So I found that crossroad, and that was obviously medicine. So that's first and foremost, why why I'm particularly interested in medicine, in response to what you asking how does someone prepare as a 16 year old? Yes, it's an interesting one, because, you know, don't start studying medicine syllabus, or curriculum, don't do that don't do those types of things, I would say, get involved in things that are at a 16 year olds level. So things that you can access, like the New York Academy of Sciences, like these societies that really foster passion for science and things that you can, you know, ultimately, in your interview, or, in your application reference, say, you know, I'm this really passionate individual about science, I've been able to get involved in these societies. And then, you know, another benefit that comes out of being involved in all of these societies, like the New York Academy of Sciences, is you discover all of these new fields of science and these new practices and different areas of science, really. So it it broadens your understanding of the entire, you know, field of science.
Podcast Host:Talk to us about the New York Academy of Sciences and how you got in and why you decided to apply and is it an application? Or do you just kind of like, sign up online? Like, well, what's the deal there?
Magnus:Yeah, absolutely. So um, I think it's approximately, I haven't looked into the the details of a bar, I think it's approximately 1000 students from across the world, as selected. In short, it's essentially a society. So it's based in New York, and they have scientists ranging from, you know, Junior scientists and breach researches, which is what I am to senior scientists who win Nobel prizes and stuff like that. And it's just like this one large community of science scientists who have, you know, a general passion for science. And in terms of the application process, all of its conducted online. So you can, you can essentially sign up to the New York Academy of Sciences from anywhere across the world. And you go through a written application process, and that that's it. All it is, is a written application, you submit your written application lists, co curricular achievements, passions for science, what areas of science, success in academic success in science, all of those, you know, trademarks or hallmarks of an application, all of the general criteria, and then you submit that, and I think you wait a few months or so. And then they get back to you with a letter of acceptance, obviously.
Podcast Host:Well, not obviously, unless you get a good application. Yeah. Hopefully they get back to you or literally to get back. Yeah. Right. So how much did you know about it prior to applying and what benefits have you seen from being a part of it?
Magnus:So in terms of applying, interestingly, I only discovered it, I actually discovered it through LinkedIn, or someone that I was in contact with and for all of the aspiring, you know, entrepreneurs on professionals even who are like 16 or 15, definitely get on LinkedIn. It's it's a goldmine. Yeah. So I discovered it through LinkedIn. I was in contact with someone who was currently in the New York Academy of Sciences and I said, How do you go about applying for this and she essentially just directed me in that general direction, submit an application. And in terms of benefits, I think one of the benefits that the application process will yielded was, it encouraged me to create a list of and this is something that I've continued throughout all of my applications. Keep a list of all of your co curricular achievements, your academic achievements, whatever they may be leadership positions, academic competitions, keep a list of them in a Word document or somewhere accessible, so then you can just reference them, drag them across your application, instead of having to wrack your brain for all of those achievements that you, you know, achieved five years ago or three years ago. So that's one of the benefits that I saw it through that application process. I actually, I think that was where I started my you know, log of achievements, I guess you would call it in terms of benefits from the actual society itself. Something that they do that's really interesting is they host these hackathons on like a monthly or two monthly basis, where they allow students they propose this problem to the students. And I think the problem for this month or this, you know, few months is telemedicine. Are you working on that hackathon?
Podcast Host:Are you producing anything for it?
Magnus:So I'm planning to currently you know, with exams and everything, I'm studying for that. But after exams, throughout December I'm planning to look into there's this new technology called haptics. And haptics is essentially like the physical equivalent, so that the feel equivalent to a sound recording.
Podcast Host:Well, I know haptics from my phone settings. When I go through my phone settings, and it says haptics, it's like how, how much the phone buzzes back at you or something. So okay, so now you're telling me what it means. Like, I'm glad because I never knew exactly what it means. I just thought it was the buzzy thing on your phone. So tell me more about haptics.
Magnus:So haptics does have a bit more depth to you know, not just, it's not just buzzing on your phone. What haptics is, is, you know, you've got your recording for sound, and sound allows you to replay all recordings allow you to replay sound without it actually being there in the present. So you can record something and play it, you know, hours later, and it's still there. And haptics is essentially the same, but for feeling, so you can create technology that allows you to feel things that aren't actually there. What I'm looking into in relation to telemedicine is how can you use that to interact with patients physically, when you're not actually interacting them physically. So you use haptics to, you know, do physical examinations and things like that?
Podcast Host:Wow. So that's an interesting, yeah, piece of technology that you look into? And you say, how do you submit that? Do you just kind of write them a, an essay about what you're thinking? And then send that off? Or is it more in depth project would have to a presentation or anything like that?
Magnus:Yeah, absolutely. So it's quite an in depth, actually, there are multiple, multiple stages to it. The first is obviously just develop a general outline of your idea, you create an abstract on, and they require you to submit the abstract by a due date, and then they assign a mentor, an older member of the New York Academy of Sciences, to your group. And, and they essentially could guide you along the process of developing your idea, you know, testing it out, they guide you essentially.
Podcast Host:Yeah, of course, yeah it's their job as mentors, right.
Magnus:What you do from there is you develop this whole robust plan of, you know, what, what does it entail, you do research into the area of science, and you do actually develop quite a strong understanding of that field of science. And then finally, you present it through a presentation, you present your idea. And then obviously, if it's something that's quite promising, as an idea, you'll have stakeholders that are interested and potential investors that are interested in it. Wow.
Podcast Host:And and most of these students, so you're paired up with a group, you said, No, no, no, you're just doing this solo.
Magnus:No, I will be paired with the group, but later in December.
Podcast Host:Okay. And are any of these other people that you know, from the New York Academy of Sciences from Melbourne, or from your school or anything else, or it's just elsewhere around the world?
Magnus:Yes. So from Australia, there were only 27 students selected. It was predominantly from America and more northern countries, I suppose. But yeah, there was one other student from Melbourne high, who's selected. And I have done a bit of collaboration with him in the New York Academy of Science, but it's predominantly students from other countries, which I think that's the real value to it. You know, you get to interact and develop these networks with students from countries and cities, kilometers away from you. And I think that's the real goldmine of what has been the biggest learning experience from that interaction because I hundred percent encourage students to find an international community of like minded people, and it's always I think, hard to get outside of your own school bubble sometimes and your schools always like, well, there's
Podcast Host:so many opportunities here like why would you need to go anywhere else, but there is so much better in finding a community outside of your school, what have been some of the things for you that you've noticed from being able to interact with students from around the world?
Magnus:Yeah, I actually might tie this a bit to the Harvard Innovation Challenge. And what something that we did in the Harvard Innovation Challenge was, it was essentially 300 students from across the world. And we were paired with just randomly paired with a few students from random countries across the world. And we were put in this group. And, you know, they said, develop this up solution to this problem. And my problem, our group's problem was education, challenges in education throughout remote learning. And something that I really found interesting was the cultural differences, the social differences, and then also the, you know, financial opportunity, the differences in opportunity, as well, between all of the all of us, because, you know, Australia is a fairly privileged country were quite developed. But there were students from rural Vietnam and India and think places like that, that, you know, weren't as developed and established as Australia. And it was really interesting, you know, we had all of these amazing ideas for technology, and, you know, these complex, quite expensive ideas, right. And, you know, it was interesting, because these students were kind of that would grounding the project and keeping us to reality, because we're like, okay, we're targeting rural Vietnam, they're really not going to be able to afford this virtual reality, or augmented reality technology, we have to think more realistic, we have to, you know, scale it to who we're targeting. So I think it was, you know, just an understanding with so many people from so many different places across the world, they had a group had an amazing understanding of how we could translate these ideas across to different areas of the world, and places that didn't have necessarily as much developed infrastructure.
Podcast Host:Okay, well, we're talking about the Harvard Innovation Challenge. So let's keep talking about that. Because I do think it's a really interesting thing. Were you on campus at Harvard for this particular challenge?
Magnus:Unfortunately, we weren't, I was stuck in my room, because it was returing remote learning, obviously. So we were, you know, rooms for like, seven hours, days, you know, on a cool collaborating, but I think, from my understanding, they do actually have a physical Harvard Innovation Challenge. So they've got one in Dubai, obviously, one in America. And that actually allows students from those regions to actually congregate on hobbins campus and actually interact physically. But for this one, it was a global challenge. So we had people from all over the world, and we weren't actually able to, you know, venture into the campus and collaborate then physically. But what we were able to do was, you know, extend the duration for which we were collaborating, because it was remote. Yeah, we didn't have to, you know, travel places we could do. We could sit at our desk and have seven hour days of just collaborating and working on our project. So in some sense, there were some benefits that did outweigh the, you know, negatives of being stuck in a room chained to your chair.
Podcast Host:Yeah, that must have been exhausting, just I mean, zoom calls and those kind of things they can get so tiring, and seven hours for how many days in a row? How long is the challenge?
Magnus:It was? Four days, four days. Yeah.
Podcast Host:Okay. So that's, yeah, that's a long time sitting in a chair. And by the end of that challenge, you're supposed to come up with, you know, it's a kind of a hackathon style kind of thing. You first come up with a project by the end of it.
Magnus:Yeah. It was essentially a hackathon.
Podcast Host:Yeah. Okay. And, again, like, how did you find out about that? Was it LinkedIn that you saw that pop up on?
Magnus:It was yet again, LinkedIn? Yeah. LinkedIn, as I said, is a genuine goldmine. Like, you will find so many opportunities on LinkedIn, I think it was a week before closing date again. And I was scrolling through my LinkedIn and it just popped up. Someone had liked it. And obviously, I had shared interests with that person. So it worked quite well, you know.
Podcast Host:Was it an ad or someone else posted about it?
Unknown:No, someone else posted about it. And one of the people that I was connected with, actually liked it. And I saw and I was like, Oh, interesting.
Podcast Host:And you saw the application, what was that? Like? What was it is a difficult application? Is it competitive to get in?
Magnus:No, actually, it's not competitive whatsoever. I think one of the great things about that challenge was it catered to all students from across world regardless of their opportunity and that privilege. So you didn't actually have to have many achievements. You didn't have to have much of a knowledge in areas of science or education. You could literally just write 300 words, expressing why you're interested, they would review that and then send you an email based off whether they selected you or not
Podcast Host:Something related to Harvard that's not competitive? Really? Maybe more competitive than you might think. I'm sure there's a lot of students applying him he still might not get it and I'm going to guess it's not limitless like the number of People who can take part. So I'm sure they've got some kind of cap on it based on what people are writing or whatnot. But how many students take part? You know, it must be hard to know when you're all doing it online.
Magnus:I think from my recollection, and this is, you know, the new form of measurement, the new unit unit of measurement. I think there were seven or eight pages of zoom. Yeah, however many that is there were seven or eight pages.
Podcast Host:Okay, that yet well, okay. Assuming that probably like 40 ish people can fit on a zoom screen, I think maybe at any one time.
Magnus:280
Podcast Host:Around that. Good maths. Yeah, yeah, around that. That's okay. So it's a healthy number of students. And you got in a particular Ward as a result of your time in that competition. What was that?
Unknown:Yeah. So I was actually equally as surprised, as you know, the rest of the students. Yeah, I won the award, essentially, what the, the HSC, or the Harvard Innovation Challenge was broken up into two tracks. One was education throughout remote learning. And the other was public health throughout remote learning. What I won was the best delegate award of the education track. So that was essentially awarded to, you know, as it says, best delegate of the competition. And the person who actually won the public health Award Best advocate award was also a student at Melbourne high. So, you know, to two students from Melbourne Hye won both of the tracks for the Harvard competition. And yeah, it was just awarded to the best delegate, you know, in terms of contribution, collaboration, networking, all of that stuff.
Podcast Host:Is it the same guy who's also in the New York Academy of Sciences?
Magnus:No, it's a different one.
Podcast Host:Every guy goes, Yeah. What does it do for you personally, in terms of like, confidence, or in terms of your, I guess, global standing? Does it feel like you're kind of pushing the boundaries of your school and Melbourne a little bit more? When you are named Best delegates of a global competition? And you're part of the New York Academy of Sciences? Is there any time that you're feeling like, Oh, you know, school is great, but there's so much more out there. And I need to keep pushing the boundaries now that I've kind of got this level of achievement on a, I guess, a global scale. Are you looking for the next thing?
Magnus:Yeah, yeah, I absolutely am, I'm, I'm doing that. And then something that I'm also trying to do is, you know, keeping all of this stuff separate from school to some degree. Because, you know, I don't want to be to living two different lives. But school is something separate to, you know, all of these co curricular activities. And if you can bring these activities to school, like water polo, for instance, like music, then that's great, but I don't necessarily think it's students in your class will want to hear about, you know, I'm the best delegate of the Harvard official, so I kind of tried to keep those two things separate. And then I try to excel in school, whilst also excelling in that different area of life. So I kind of look at it as two different spheres. Um, you know, you can excel in both at the same time. And that's something that is extremely important to emphasize, you don't want to just neglect a school because school is extremely valuable it so school enables you that all these conventional things, and then you can do pursue your interests and all of these unconventional things outside in that other sphere.
Podcast Host:Would you turn yourself a busy person? Because it sounds like you've got a lot going on with waterpolo and music and external competitions and school obviously, Are you stressed? Are you busy? Do you not have time for anything else?
Magnus:I'm quite often quite stressed, actually, to be honest. But I kind of enjoy the stress to as strange as that sounds, it doesn't motivate me on having things on a list to do. Because I feel like if I didn't have those things on a list to do, I'd get complacent. And then I, you know, just wind up on my bed watching Netflix or something along those lines. And I think it's also important to emphasize that I do do those things sometimes. And everyone does that. It's just in human nature that everyone will sometimes to some degree burnout. But it's just about getting back up on your feet. So I think I would say yes, I am quite busy. Most of the time, you know, whether it be studying at home for academics or sport training, practice, all of those things. But I do prefer it, I would prefer that a busy life over you know, a lot where I'm just sitting on my bed watching Netflix.
Podcast Host:Yeah, well, you're going into the final years of high school now. What do you say is been the path for you next two years in terms of time management, because I know a lot of students who do have very busy co curricular activities kind of wait to wait. Some of them I guess, just drop everything in their final years of high school, which is a bit of a shame, I think. Yeah. Where do you sit in that kind of category. Do you have any activities that might be closer to the chopping block than others.
Magnus:I completely agree with you, Alex, when you said, it's a bit of a shame, like I ultimately wants to say just a resounding no, I'm not gonna drop them, because they are equally if not more valuable than academics. And you know, you look at the workforce, soft skills are one of the most highly emphasized things in and highly sought after things in the workforce, you need to be able to communicate, you need to be able to work in a team, you need to, you know, understand how social relationships work. So I think those you can't learn that stuff through studying a textbook, Khan learn that through VC, biology, OVC, maths methods, or any of those things, you have to learn that through collaborating with other people. And a perfect opportunity to do that is through curriculum. So I would say an ultimate not i'm not intending to drop them. And if anything, I'm probably intending to, you know, wrap the wrap it up slightly, because I'm kind of on the fence as to whether I look to an overseas University and look to try and pursue maybe some sort of overseas university degree, or whether I stay in Australia and something that the American system emphasizes curriculum. I think, just in the grand scheme of things, it's like, this is a weird analogy, but it's like, you know, you you develop a new relationship with someone, just let's just say that they're a girlfriend or something, yes, I'm for a boyfriend, and you're not going to drop all of your other relationships with your family members, and with your cousins and with your friends, just to spend time with your partner, like you may, you may change how you do it, but you're not just going to completely neglect those other relationships that you've developed. So, you know, as strange as this sounds, see your activities as relationships, you've developed this new relationship with a new partner, but you're not going going to just neglect your family, you're not going to neglect brands. It's about you know, changing it, depending on what your priorities are.
Podcast Host:Now, you have a very strong background in student leadership. And I know that in at least my experience, anyway, a lot of the time student leadership is kind of spoken in vague terms, where it's more of a mindset than anything else. And it can be a little bit hard to grasp exactly what you should be doing as a student later. Now you're in your 10th. At the moment, do you currently have an official student leadership role?
Magnus:I do currently. So I actually came to MHS. This year, as a year 10. And I initially didn't, and then I think it was maybe two weeks in, we held an election, the entire school held an election for the school council representative. So we held those elections, and I think it was maybe 30 students applied. And I was one of them. And we submitted a written application. And something that I found interesting was, you know, I went for quite an unconventional written application, I put a lot of mine in top point format, with capslock. activated, obviously, on my keyboard, and it was just up slipped off points. And I placed myself in the shoes of a student reading these 30 passages of written applications, no student is going to read through 30 written applications or 200 words, and look at it and then read age and evaluate who's going to be the best June representative. It's just, it's just not going to happen, right? So you know, I tapped into that I thought, okay, they're going to be scrolling through the screen, looking for something that catches their attention, hence, why I put the caps lock and the dock points. So somehow, I managed to, you know, get into that position, I was elected by the student body. And all throughout this year, I've been able to, you know, create initiatives for the students and contribute to reforming the school system and the school structure, policy changes all of that stuff. And I think what really brought that about was understanding the student cohort or understanding the people that you're leading, because if I didn't know that, you know, students would be scrolling through that those 30 applications, really just neglecting each of them, then I wouldn't have been in that position. Because I wouldn't have understood how to, you know, grasp their attention.
Podcast Host:I completely commend you for that. You got to know your audience, right? But you got to write for your audience. And in that case, you did very, very well. Do you feel like you are a little less powerful in some sense, because you are you tend, I know that some students look at student leadership as being like a final year thing, you know that most people will aspire to be a school captain, all that kind of thing. Sometimes I think that a lot of students who are in that final year, they're almost too busy to do like serious student leadership stuff. So talk to us a little bit about, I guess what role a proactive your 10 or 16 year old could have within a school community. In some sense, you've
Magnus:got an advantage in comparison to those years 12. I mean, I'm actually currently working with the current MHS school captain and then it 2021 School captain of images, you know, we collaborate over a variety of different projects. And often, it almost seems as if their role is, you know, just oversee all of the progress of the policy changes of the initiative creations, all of those things. And whilst that's great when you oversee those types of projects, and don't necessarily get involved, that's when you kind of you lose out on all of the valuable skills, like organizational skills, things like that, creating events. So I think, in some sense, if you are a year 10, late, I need to find yourself in one of these positions, you really need to put some emphasis on the things that the school captains or those upper leadership roles can do, such as, you know, writing proposals, things like that. And although that seems, you know, trivial and tedious in nature, it really isn't like, I quite enjoy writing proposals now, because you get to shape how it's, you know, kind of presented to the community. So I think, play to your strengths as a year 10, later, you know, the school captains don't really have time to write proposals, and brainstorm all of these ideas. So take this as an opportunity to do that work, brainstorm ideas, write the proposals, then you present it to the school captain. And then you have an avenue that you can, you know, go through to get involved in those upper leadership roles. So that's, that's actually exactly what happened to me, you know, I wrote all these proposals, created all of these ideas, proposed it to these school captains and these SRC presidents. And they said to me, we would actually love you to be on board and kind of present this to the school Council and, you know, the school community, because ultimately, these are your ideas. So I think that's the real, you know, key to creating an impact as a younger leader.
Podcast Host:I completely agree, I think there's so much that a you 10 can do. And you're right, that a lot of the time, the school captains are like looking to do the big speeches and that kind of stuff. But at the end of the day, the nitty gritty day to day, changes that a student community might be looking for, probably best facilitated by someone in the attend who's like ready to sit down and write something out. With the whole student leadership side of things. Is it more of a mindset or a skill set? Like do you see yourself I am a leader kind of mindset? Or is it like organizational writing proposals? What do you see as being most important for you in order to actually make an impact?
Magnus:I think, ultimately, when you boil it down to it's probably the mindset, to be honest, you know, skill sets are always things that you can obtain, you can do that through actually writing a proposal, you can gain experience in writing a proposal, through actually writing, but a mindset, you actually need to intentionally and consciously change how you perceive yourself as a member of the community. And then you somehow, you know, after months, you start getting these opportunities, you change your mindset, then the opportunities come to you. And that's then when you develop the skill set. So I think you start off with the mindset, you change your mindset and tell you so wake up one day and say, I'm a little, I'm going to be a leader, you may not have these roles, but you can tell yourself that you're going to be a leader. And it's the small things that really count, you know, helping out a kid in the hallway pick up picking up his pencil case, as being a leader later. And that sounds so cliche, like I've heard that told me countless times, but it genuinely is, it's the mindset. And then the opportunities follow.
Podcast Host:Let me just quickly check on the skill set side because writing proposals and organizing events and that kind of thing, it can be something that you learn from experience, or it can be something that you learn through your classroom, I don't think many classrooms are going through an English class not really talking about writing proposals too much. So in terms of like, filling that knowledge gap on the skills side, how did you go about doing that? Is that something that you looked up online? I know, it sounds like a basic question. But yeah, how do you go about writing a proposal? Or how do you go about like organizing a school event? Is it someone who you speak to from, you know, the, the levels of barbecue? Or who do you go to for advice on those kinds of things?
Magnus:Yeah, absolutely. You know, like, I really do wish they had a subject for leadership as some sort of leadership subject, because it's so valuable, and it will become extremely vital later on in life. But that was just a bit of a side note. In terms of where I actually obtained the skills, I think, the most valuable resources mentors, like you know, you see these school captains, and these SRC presidents, and most of the time, they're actually quite approachable. Talk to them, ask them to maybe send you previous proposal that they wrote up, and you just use that as a structure really, you look at it, you evaluate, you know, what, what's the structure or how they outline the idea how they presented it, usually it's an introduction and a rationale. Why are we doing so such thing x, y, Zed, and then all of the details, the nitty gritty, so contact your mentors or those those higher up leaders in your school community or wherever, whatever type of community you're in, talk to them because often they Are approachable and ask them for some sort of previous proposal that they wrote up and just compare yours really just work on replicating it. And then later on down the track, you develop your own style.
Podcast Host:One other thing that I like to talk to when I'm chatting with school leaders is that idea that it's really important to know the different branches of your school community, you've got your student body, right, and you've got your different levels and SSC presidents and the rankings within that. But then you've got your teachers, then you've got the parent community, then you've got your, you know, you might have an advisory board that's external to the school, and you might have the old boys or old girls. So like the alumni of the school, because I sometimes think that I've seen some great student leaders who push really hard for change. And they're very, very good at it. But the problem that often occurs is that they've only taken into account one stakeholder, which is the student, but I think like a really good student leader is able to listen to other stakeholders as well during that kind of consultative process. So can you talk us through I guess, that kind of bigger than the student body type view that a student leader might have?
Magnus:Yeah, absolutely on, this is actually something that I went through, you know, Harvard, an online Harvard course code on exercising leadership, foundational principles, or something along those lines. And it's actually free. So I definitely recommend any students watching this to, you know, have a look at that. But it talks about this idea, and this, this is a really common idea of looking at things or perceiving things from the balcony, you know, taking a step back and looking down onto the dance floor and looking at all of the, I suppose people of play and things of play, and taking a step back looking at it from the balcony. And it's, you know, it's really interesting, because that, that, you know, you take a step back, and you look at all of the stakeholders. And while while that kind of does sound simple, it's, it's quite difficult to do in practice, you know, how do you consider all of these views of different students and different teachers and different old boys and alumni, like, do talk to them, to just assume what they, they would kind of think of this idea. And ultimately, I think it's just talking really, you have to, you have to do your research, you have to, you know, gauge the the interest of the student body gauge the interest of the teacher body, gauge the interest of the alumni. And often schools, for example, have mechanisms to do this, like they have structures that allow you to do this on, for instance, the school Council, when they make some sort of large policy reform or structural reform, they have to go through community consultation, yes, a really great way of doing that is creating working groups. So you create working groups within the students, you know, five or 10 students with a facilitator. And you do that maybe 30 times with, you know, five or 10 different students each time. And so then you ask for their feedback, obviously, with regards to the idea, you asked them how they feel about it. But then also, another great thing that these working groups bring about is student input and community input. You know, this is also an opportunity to gain input, they don't like an idea, how would you fix this? How would you like to change? So I think if we're talking about a school setting, there are actually tangible mechanisms that you can actually go through and policies that you can, you know, look at that allow you to consult the community, whether it be teachers, students, or whatever it
Podcast Host:may be. Yeah, I think that's a good point. And I think aspiring student leaders who are listening to the episode should take that in into account. What other advice would you give to aspiring student leaders or current student leaders who are out there kind of saying, Yeah, I've got this position, or students who are aiming to get that position? And what advice would you give to them based on your experiences?
Magnus:Yeah, absolutely. I'm a latest student, you're still a student, you're, you're a student. And you may be a leader, but you're not, you know, above the student cohort, you're a student within the student cohort. And that's the best place to lead from being from within the student cohort, all leading from behind the student corvil. You know, you lead from behind you facilitate students, you push them up instead of trying to drag them up with ideas or things like that. So I think, you know, a great way of thinking about it is, you can't hear a group of students talking, if you're 100 meters away from them, or you are 100 meters above them. You cannot hear their ideas and hear what they're saying, from within the group. And so if you separate yourself, and you create this image of all on the Lita home superior to the students, so I have a title on my blazer, then the students aren't going to come to you with their ideas they don't get you're not going to get that rich, valuable insight and input from the students. So tip number one, as a leader, don't lead from above lead from within or behind. So then you can actually listen to the students. With that said, I'm not just saying you know, don't apply for leadership positions because no one cares about the position. that aren't kept care about the title. They care about what you do with the title. And this applies to the application process as well. Students often, you know, in applications I've read a few for the recent Junior School Captain application process of my school. And quite a, you know, common trend that a lot of the students fell victim to was writing about how they experiences qualify them to be a junior school captain and how the role of junior school Captain will benefit them as leaders. Yes, leadership isn't about you, as a leader, it's about the community that you're serving, instead of writing about all this position will enable me to, you know, Garner experience in proposal writing, allow me to develop organizational skills, just get rid of the meat and replace it with you know, the student cohort, the student body, the community, because that's what the selection panel is looking for. They're not looking for a self serving leader, they're looking for a leader that can serve the cohort because that is what a leader does. So number one, the title doesn't matter. It's what you do with the title. Yes, um, it's good. Lead from within the cohort or behind, not from above, because you can't hear someone 100 meters away. Yes. Number three would be right about the the cohort and how you're going to be benefiting the cohort, as opposed to benefiting yourself as a leader.
Podcast Host:And so yeah, knowing how to apply is like, a skill in and of itself that really does take time to master. And and knowing your audience is a really big part of that.
Magnus:Yep, exactly. I cannot agree more. I think this this massive misconception that, you know, there's the perfect application, there's the model application, you want to model this application. But ultimately, like you say, on YouTube, or here's my Oxford application, personal statement, all of this thing, and then run through the structure. There is no structure to an application really, like there are a few pointers that you can, you know, target. But I think a perfect example of why there is not is actually a story that I heard at the Harvard innovation competition, one of the Harvard University students was talking about what he wrote in his personal statement. And, you know, I was expecting all he listed all of these achievements, I impacted so many people wrote about dogs. Nike wrote about dogs and cats. And, you know, there was probably more substance to it than just dogs and cats. But bottom line, he wrote about dogs and cats and how he was interested in them, and you know, how they've impacted these life and stuff like that. And then he found ways to, you know, within his achievements, but he did it through storytelling. And when you have that, you know, pool and I've sat on a few selection panels, you know, for the SRC, co presidents and the SRC cabinet, for my school. And when you get 60 applications that are just echoing the same message, and they just stayed in the same structure it, you start to really lose interest. And then, you know, the 49th application with that. There's someone who starts the application off with a question with the story, they saw with something interesting, and it's a breath of fresh air. It's almost as if you walked through kilometers of desert, and then you finally reach this oasis. And it's genuinely one of the most refreshing things to read as an interviewer or as you know, someone who's sitting on a selection panel.
Podcast Host:Yeah, and keep in mind, like 60 applications, your rating, I've spoken to people who are rating applications in the US and they read 600 and like, the personal statements are a bit longer, you know, usually 600 words or thereabout. And it's, it's a, it's tiring, and that they always remember that one essay that stands out and I've asked a couple of former division officers what their favorite essays and it's always one that has like an interesting story or one that doesn't kind of go through the whole rigmarole of these are my achievements in these areas have impacted people, but have has a bit of humor has a bit of a story about it and is memorable for a variety of reasons. But Magnus has been fantastic to chat and you know, have you on the podcast today. I look forward to having shared this episode far and wide. And hopefully the Melbourne High School and Melbourne and Australia community can get behind this episode as well. But thanks very much. I think everybody would want to connect with you on LinkedIn now that you've spoken about it quite a lot. So a welcome to contact you on there.
Magnus:Yeah, absolutely. Just Magnus Mulhall.
Podcast Host:If you want to have tips from Magnus on I guess how to make the most of LinkedIn. Just follow along and see how he goes about it because you did pretty well on that.
Magnus:Perfect. Thank you, Alex.
Podcast Host:Thanks, Magnus.