Top of the Class

#11 How I Got In - Harvard Scholarship Student on the Highs and Lows of the Application Process

• Crimson Education • Season 3 • Episode 11

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Eunice is the first student from her school to get into the Ivy League and she has set the bar high as a Harvard admit on full scholarship.

Alongside her Harvard admission, Eunice is a Coke Scholar, Gates Scholar and Jack Kent Cooke Scholar.

Eunice shares her journalism related extracurriculars, why she felt bitter about the application process and gives her advice for students aiming for top colleges.

Don’t forget about the Comments Section series! Send your comments in text or audio form to me at my email address or on Twitter. This could be your thoughts on previous episodes, shoutouts to the guests you loved hearing from or any questions you have.

Alex

Hi, Eunice. Welcome to the How I Got In podcast. It's awesome to have you on the show. Can you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself?


Eunice 

Hello, my name is Eunice and I'm from Macon, Georgia. And I am an incoming freshman at Harvard College. I applied sociology, religion or government, which is what Harvard calls political science. And so I was very active in civics and community service and I liked talking about race and culture so a lot of my extracurriculars were around those interests as well.


Alex 

Perfect. Well, we'll get into all of that in just a moment. But firstly, massive congratulations for gaining admission to Harvard. Tell us a bit about Macon, Georgia?


Eunice  

So I'm originally from Gwinnett. And that's to the north of Atlanta. It's a pretty nice suburb. And I moved to Macon after my first semester of high school. And I moved because of my father's new job. And so when I moved to Macon, it was a completely different area. We would call it a city, I guess, if we consider the population, but according to The Washington Post, it’s the most redlined city in America. And so there are serious issues with white flight and redlining. And so there's a huge educational disparity in Macon. My high school was one of the better public schools but we have a 99% poverty rate. When we come to school, students are required to have clear backpacks or mesh. We walk through metal detectors in the mornings and sometimes the principal and administrators would come into classrooms and check students’ backpacks randomly. And we also have a drug dog named Daisy. And so it's a completely different environment that I was used to back in Gwinnett where college was something that was obvious to my school but when I transferred to Howard, I felt like I was in middle school again, because there were rules everywhere. And so that took a bit of adjustment for sure.


Alex  

So out of your high school, was it unusual to aspire to Harvard?


Eunice

Oh, yes. Our school doesn't really send students to Ivy League institutions. Not that it has never happened before. But when I told my college counselor I would like to go to Harvard hard at Harvard, what she did was not, ‘oh, let's work on this so we can get you to Harvard.’ She sat me down. She looked at Harvard’s class profile and she was like, ‘do you understand that there's a 5% acceptance rate and that means out of 20 students, you have to convince the admissions committee why you should be there.’ And, you know, she wanted to give me a reality check. Because that wasn't something our school didn’t know much about. Even in my graduation speech, I wasn't allowed to talk about college or AP courses, because that would be exclusive to certain people. And the teacher was like, ‘Eunice, you got to understand that most of us are going to live and die in Macon and these students are going to have children next year, they're going to get married the year after they're going to serve our country in the armed forces, not all of us are going to college.’ And so that gives a little bit more context about where I'm from. With what I told people about Harvard, it was never something that even seemed like any bit possible to the people around me, not even my family. 


Alex

Why was Harvard still the dream school, despite all these challenges that were around you?


Eunice 

I think part of it was the name. And I'm going to be really honest about that. So I used to play violin, and I was arguably not bad at it. I was in the prestigious Youth Symphony in my state, but my violin teacher said to me, ‘Eunice, what do you want to do?’ So what does that mean? That means, okay, you're not really good enough to pursue this as a career. And I was like, ‘you know, teacher, I'm not really sure. I'm thinking of like, maybe classics or like linguistics’, and she was like, ‘well, then you're gonna have to go somewhere like Harvard.’ And I don't think it was necessarily to knock me down. It was just that even in the Atlanta Symphony, which is a really prestigious orchestra for professional musicians, they also had their own issues in terms of finances or with classical music dying or whatnot. And so that was one reason. Another reason was, when I did get in, I told my maternal grandparents who were super excited. And she was like, ‘oh, but isn't it expensive?’ and I was like, ‘oh, there's no parent contribution, Grandma, so mom and dad don't have to pay.’ And that's why she was happy about the fact that it was affordable, more than anything else. And so, to me, I guess it's just a narrative. I'm not necessarily specifically first gen, because my dad went to seminary here. But I'm the first one in my family to have that traditional four year college experience in the United States. And it sort of symbolized a fantasy that I had, I had to sort of make sure that my parents' efforts weren't for nothing. And to be able to say it's that American dream, I guess, is really a really strong narrative for children of immigrants. 


Alex  

Yeah, absolutely. Well, let's get into the application a little bit. What did you see as your strongest elements and what did you say are the elements that you perhaps had some doubts around?


Eunice 

So I was worried about my awards, I had a lot of regional awards, or like state awards, but I didn't have specific spikes. So I was a jack of all trades, master of none sort of student. So it was so hard for me to figure out, ‘Okay, I don't have a spike. But I need to have a theme.’ Like, for example, there are students who would do ISEF or research sciences or the US Senate Youth Program and our school knows nothing about that. And it is so difficult for someone in my school where teachers aren't really passionate about extracurriculars. And so there were parts when I compared myself to my other friends who did their applications. I'm like, ‘okay, there were some parts where I could have been unprepared.’ But like, there were some things I think sort of stood out in terms of the Common App, you can list up to 10 activities. And I had too much. And so it was hard for me to sort of either cut them or to try to push multiple ones together. And so I was pretty involved to the point that it was pretty exhausting and easy to get burnt out all the time. And when I look at my friends who are also like Coke scholars, they did so much. They weren't just taking tests and making good grades, they really worked hard to make an impact, and actually make a difference in this world in a positive way. And I think that is something that is really common for all of us, we learn not just inside the classroom, but outside the classroom. And my essay sort of went into that a little bit. My essay was about stepping outside of my paradigm and seeing where other people are coming from. So we have a hard time understanding what other people are saying, and why things are the way they are. And so I built my application on that story on wanting to build understanding, and wanting to be a bridge that connects people together. And that related to my areas of interest in terms of possible majors or concentrations that connected to extracurriculars. Because I have published articles talking about racial issues, or current events, or I also was an activist for different disparities, educational disparity or gender disparity. And so I think it was really important for me to have one theme going through my application, so they could sort of see what I was doing. I also loved math. So I did math. And I was a student who kind of did a bit of everything. But I don't think that would have been really helpful had I not had that one theme trying to bring it all together.


Alex 

You mentioned journalism which I know is a big part of what you do. So talk to me about how that plays out.


Eunice 

So I was with Student Council, and we were in the summer and we were unpacking boxes and helping teachers reorganize their classrooms for the school year and one of the English teachers she was going to start a journalism club like a newspaper and broadcast club and so she scouted me and she Like, Eunice, would you be interested in doing like daily announcements and also writing for student newspaper like, of course, I've always dreamt of writing for a newspaper and doing student publications. But mainly, most of my journalism was done outside of school so I worked for several news publications. There were some international publications that I was a director for too. And one was specifically tackling gender disparity or like female empowerment. Another publication was for tackling educational inequities and promoting STEM education in areas like Macon, Georgia. And then there was a national publication that was mainly for Asian students for civic engagement and so I would write about different current issues. This is also before hate crimes against Asian, Asian American and Pacific Islanders sort of surged due to COVID-19, we also tried to tackle that as well. And it was a mixture of reporting what happened and then there were some articles where we wrote personal stories or about personal experiences, or wrote arguments for certain policies. And my favorite were always the personal stories. I liked writing about my experiences, and how they shaped how I think about race, or whatnot. There was one article that many people ended up reading, and they really identified with and yeah, they would contact me on social media, and it was time for us to heal. And I always wanted to build more constructive discussion. Obviously, there are people who are going to reject, whether it's news or like information from certain places that don't agree with them. But a lot of times there's disagreements because people are just ignorant about what other people are experiencing. I mean, there's always more that I could learn about the black community or black experiences or even white experiences. Of course, there's always more we could learn about the other side. And so how to approach discussion. So all of us are better educated and more knowledgeable about what's actually going on in our society. But also for us not to stop at diversity. We want actual inclusion,


Alex 

You also mentioned that community service was a big part of what you did. Can you talk about that a bit as well?


Eunice 

So I campaigned for certain politicians and also worked for our youth commission. So it's a program and I was part of the 2019 cohort. So our advisors left the program, but I didn't want the program to die because it was like one of the only ways students in Macon could volunteer in civics. And so I was an alumna advisor. So I returned for two years. And what we would do is we would go every single month, we had a different theme. And the theme was different agencies of our local government. And so we will learn about how these different agencies come together to make the place it is right now, that was pretty interesting.


Alex 

Were you thinking strategically? Because I know a lot of students approach the Ivy League applications, as you know, ‘I need to have some volunteering, I need to have some extracurricular that speaks to this part of my profile and this part of my profile’, and they try and be very strategic about what they do and what they don't do. Was that the approach that you took? Were you at some stages thinking, ‘how is this going to look eventually?’ Or were you just doing things that you were attracted to?


Eunice 

Um, that's a good question. I didn't think about how impressive it would be at all. To me, I kind of despise that a little bit. And when it comes to volunteering, there are schools that require volunteer hours, and you have to have 100 hours to graduate high school. Our school didn't really have any of that. And the college application doesn't really ask for hours anyways. And so I wasn't trying to volunteer to look good in front of colleges, I only felt like doing the things I did in terms of activism or writing or volunteering, because I wanted to, and hopefully that came across in the application. Because I think that sort of sets people apart, I don't like it when people are taking advantage of different struggles that real people experience for themselves.


Alex 

Yeah, I think it is probably a little bit more organic and natural when you do follow things that you love. But I would have assumed there would have been a little bit more pressure for you as a journalist when it comes to the essay. Did you feel that?


Eunice

I'm sure it is, because it would be weird if we weren't able to write a good essay. But to be honest, I really just had fun. So for the common app essay, I made that a little more serious about my interest in religion and how that shapes our political culture, but my supplemental essay is about pizza. And so I really just wrote about what I wanted to write about. And I have a specific voice when I'm writing it, it really sounds like a human, it sounds like me. So I think that helped. I think, when we try to write college essays, and we add all these different adjectives that we found on a thesaurus, or we're using big words, they can kind of detract from what the essay is about. It’s much more strategic to use strong nouns and strong verbs, and use concise writing. And so I really didn't make it my goal to sound really impressive. Even though there was obviously some pressure because I said I was a writer. And I was really just trying to show them who I was as a person. So they see that overall theme, they can picture what kind of person I will be on campus, and not just see a piece of paper with a list of stuff, they see a person.


Alex 

And at the end of the day, it's about conveying a message. So for you to think about, ‘I've got this message. How am I going to convey it?’ What was that whole process like?


Eunice 

Oh, it was so bad. So I have serious writer's block. And when it came to my college essay, it took me so long for me to figure it out. Because I was like, ‘I think everything about my life is interesting.’ And, you know, there's only one essay that gets sent to all my colleges so does it have to be impressive, but like low key not impressive, or does it need to be serious or does it need to be funny, and it stressed me out! And it was in a moment in my American literature class, and my professor asked me a question. And I was like, ‘You know, Professor, I don't know.’ And to me, that was like, the most profound moment. And because he was like, ‘What do you mean, you don't know?’ And I was like, ‘Well, here's why I don't know.’ And I think when it comes to college essays, students are really stressed out like me, who are maybe perfectionists, and they don't want to do anything, unless it's perfect, and so they end up procrastinating, or they just don't know if their topic is good enough. Or if there's a better one out there. You don't have to reinvent the wheel. I don't think my essay was unique in terms of the topic, it was a moment in class that, to me, was like a lightbulb moment about life and about people and about politics or history or how we view the world. It wasn't something that was really out of the blue or really abstract. And what was more important in my essay was how I described what I was thinking in my mind. So the people who are reading my essays could tell how I thought, or how I process information, and how I applied that information to other contexts. But it was definitely hard to find an essay topic because I needed time to grow. And I could have maybe written about something else I might have been better or what not. And so I don't know, I don't encourage too many people to write their college essays really early for that reason. Sometimes it takes a little longer for us to figure out what we're going to do. But definitely don't wait until the last minute like me.


Alex 

Well, it's great to hear that even students who get into Harvard are human as well and have struggles with this application. Now, you did mention that you did the AP subjects at a local state university but how else did you show your academic standards were of the level required by Harvard?


Eunice 

So with my APs because I did dual enrollment, I had to self study for six AP exams, junior year. That was a nightmare. And there's not a single SAT tutoring place in Macon, Georgia. And so I worked with a student who is a year above. He's at Harvard right now. And he got a perfect score on the SAT. And I worked with him for four days. And it wasn't much, we were just going over practice tests. But he helped me understand that I needed to first of all, practice the test, and number two, sort of understand how the tests work. As soon as I understood how the test worked, things went much more smoothly. And so I took my first test in August and I got a 1530. And so I missed one on the math section. And I was like, ‘Well, I'm applying to humanities, social sciences. I don't necessarily need to work too hard on the math section because it's super scored.’ So I took the reading section again and then I got a 1560 total and that was my last attempt.


Alex 

Okay. 1560 is a very solid score in terms of the SAT. And you did six AP subjects as well. Do you remember the APs you did?


Eunice 

So in 9th grade, I took AP bio and I took AP human geography. I got a five on AP human geography. I'm not going to talk about biology. didn't do too hot. I retook it in junior year, so I didn't even report it. And I took world history and I got a four which I feel like I was robbed on that one. AP Calculus, got a five, AP environmental science, I got a five the year. AP Lang, five. What else? AP comparative gov was a five, AP Calculus BC was a five, US history was a four. I'm like, alright, I get it. I didn't take the course. AP government, now that was a surprise. Now that was a four. I did not report that because that was related to my major.


Alex  

So you got a four in what you thought was going to be related to your major. So you didn't report it?


Eunice

Yes. And I think it worked fine for me, because I didn't take that course anyways. So colleges would have no idea that I took the test until after I got in and sent it. The thing with APs, people have different advice like ‘Oh, you should always report all your APs or they're gonna assume that you didn't pass.’ But there are some people who say don't report even the fours if they're related to your major, because that could cost you admission. I feel like if I reported my four, I wouldn't have gotten into schools I got into and obviously it’s less risky for me because it's not like they're going to see AP US Gov course on my transcript or anything. But I think if I reported it, that probably would have killed my chances.


Alex  

Wow. Okay, so a very strategic move there. Let's talk about the other two elements of the application, the interviews and the references. So what was it like getting references from your school? And then also the interview process?


Eunice 

Oh, my Harvard interview was probably my best one. Because my interviewer studied psychology. And so that's kind of close to Sociology. And so the things that we were interested in that we could talk all day about, that's what we share. And I really felt the strongest connection with him compared to my other interviewers. There were some interviewers that were kind of like the gotcha kind of interviewers, or they wanted a specific student, and it wasn't me. And I felt that and there were some dry interviews. But again, I got into those schools, and there were interviews that I also thought I killed, but they don't really have that much effect on interviews. But I did do the optional interviews that apparently weren't considered for admission. I did those two just in case. I mean, I don't know if they factored in my admissions decision. But they did help me figure out how I could picture myself at that school.


Alex

And how about the references? Some people say they mean a lot, some people say it doesn't mean much. What was your general understanding of them?


Eunice 

My general understanding was they mean a lot. And they prefer core teachers, because of my weird experiences, I had professors who only knew me for one semester, rather than a year, like a traditional high school teacher would. And so I don't think my references were as good as it could have been, which is why later, I ended up tracking down a teacher who went to a different school. And I was like, you need to help me or there was a community leader who watched me talk about politics and be an activist. And so I asked her to write me a recommendation as well as an outside recommendation. And I think those help describe me as a student as a person better rather than just a student. I was only at my high school for a year and a half. And so most people knew me as a number. I was like, ‘Oh, Eunice is the person who's like, ranking one in the class, or she's like a super smart, or like studious student’, but that was it. And they didn't really want to give me a chance. And so I didn't want my references to be just about me being smart, or me being a good student getting good grades, because that's everyone applying. I wanted references that kind of spoke to who I was as a person. And so I really was careful about who I asked to write my recommendations. I emailed them because it was COVID. And I told them, you know, this is what I learned in your class as a human being and as a student, and this is how it shaped me. If you do decide to write my recommendation, I do want you to keep this in mind and like it just how much your course meant to me or working with you meant to me and how I grew as a human being in your course or something like that.


Alex 

Well, that's a great tip for students who are looking to get references. I think it's certainly trying to find teachers who understand you as a person, not just as a grade and trying to emphasize to them how much their class means. Talk to me about your Crimson team. Who did you have as your strategist? 


Eunice 

I worked mostly with Anjali. Poor Anjali. Anjali, if you're listening to this, I am so sorry for sending you essays like last minute. You are my hero. I love you so much.


Alex

She's great. Anjali is an absolute hero. So she was your strategist mainly? 


Eunice  44:47

Yes. I also worked with Shannon too. She destroyed my essays. She did not hide her criticism at all and I was so grateful to her because she just helped me really step up my essay game too.


Alex 

For someone who is from a journalist background etc. What kind of feedback were you getting?


Eunice

I think Shannon was more grammar heavy, but both Anjali and Shannon were like, ‘Okay, so that's kind of awkward phrasing or it's not clear’, because these admissions officers are probably skimming thousands of essays and so we have to make sure that it's super clear. Also, in terms of like, ‘This doesn't come off the way you thought it would’, like, I wouldn't say that my essays were like sob stories or something like that. But there's a way to talk about dark moments or negative moments, without putting people off. It was things like, that's not what the prompt is asking for, for example, like, the ‘Why this school?’ essay, they're not just asking about how much we love that school, they're also expecting us to write about, who we are and what we're going to be at the school and who we’ll be when we leave the school. And not only what the school will provide for us, but what we will contribute to the school and to the student body. And so there's all these implied other questions that we have to fill in to make a really strong supplemental essay. And I think they helped me a lot with that, like, ‘oh, talk more about this’, or ‘let's cut the beginning’. That was always My problem was to cut the beginning, and then add more to the end. Because I always started off good. And then it was hard for me to find closure at the end.


Alex

And talk to me about receiving the news. I know you applied to a number of different colleges, talk to me about that whole emotional roller coaster.


Eunice  

I was so bitter because I got a lot of bad news in the beginning, right? And I was like, ‘Okay, I'm not gonna get in anywhere.’ And I was freaking out. And I think with this application cycle, there were students who got really, really disappointing news, who probably would not have if it was a different year, it was just so competitive. Nobody really knew what was going on. It was the first time a lot of these universities implemented test optional policies. And so it was much harder for us to predict what's going to happen when it came to our specific admission cycle. And so it was easy to be bitter, and to look at students out there with good news, you think, you know, I kind of hate you. And you know, with my Questbridge friends, whether it's Discord or Reddit or whatever people were taking each other down for good news. And when I saw that, I was like, number one. These aren't friends. These are toxic people that I don't want to be around but number two, that's not what I want to be. Understand that I'm sad or that I'm bitter. But at the end of the day college is college and I definitely understand my privilege here when I say this, but I knew that I wasn't going to be happy, not celebrating with other people about their success. So because a lot of people had a lot of bad news this year, and it had really ultra low acceptance rates, I was really cautious in what I posted, or what I said, when I started hearing good news. And it was really difficult for me to navigate that understanding that, yes, I'm allowed to be happy about good news. But my happiness could bring other people pain. 


Alex  

I didn't expect that you would start off that answer with ‘I was really bitter.’ But in the end, where did you gain admission to?


Eunice 

So I didn't get into schools like UChicago or Vanderbilt, they came out a little earlier. Like Ivy day, I believe, was postponed by a week. And so I just kept getting discouraged. I was like, am I not enough? Like, you know, I worked harder than I should have, not just needed to but for like mental health and everything. And I don't think it was necessarily whether I was getting into a good college or not, it was just the uncertainty of where I was going to be for the next four years. That really shook me in a really bad way. And I started hearing good news from like, other private universities and then on Ivy day, I got an email from Crimson Connect, which is like a portal for Harvard alumni and admitted students. And like, I thought it was an email from you Crimson Education. I was like, I don't need this energy right now. And I didn't open it. If I had opened it, I would have known that I got into Harvard. And so at 8pm, I was just hovering over the button for the Harvard status to click on my status. And I prayed. I was like, ‘God, You know what? I actually, like, let it go. Now. I actually let it go. Like, honestly, for like this one second. I'm like, I'm genuinely going to be okay if I don't get into Harvard. Like, I get it. God, you told me so many different ways. And I was so stubborn, and I was so greedy about it. And I was overly ambitious.’ And so I just took a deep breath, and my hands were shaking. And then I pressed the button. It was like, congratulations. And I just thought I was going crazy. I was reading it again. I was like, Is this right? Oh, my goodness. It was a crazy day for sure.


Alex 

It's a crazy day. And that moment that you got in, how long did it take for that realization to fully sink in? Or has it yet?


Eunice 

Well, I don't know. It was weird. You know, I know it sounds really bad for me to say this. But whether it was when I was announced valedictorians or I knew I was going to get into Harvard. That happiness lasted like two seconds. And I realized that I just had this fantasy of Harvard. And once it happened, I thought all my life problems would go away. And there were other admitted to Harvard and other colleges, they thought, once they got into college, it was going to get easier. And they realized that they were the same person to the point that unless people ask me where I'm going, I don't tell them. Because even if it's people who have known me for years, they see me differently. But I'm the same person. I'm the same. And whatever it is, whether it's acceptance to Harvard or getting certain scholarships, those weren't going to give me the happiness I was looking for. I had to find that within myself, in my heart.


Alex 

I certainly understand that idea of you know, once you get into Harvard, you don't tend to share it with too many people.. Now, let's talk about your advice for students who are looking to go forward into this application process and potentially wanting to emulate your successes. What advice would you give them if they would approach the application?


Eunice 

I think the most important thing is to be prepared, because I know students who are so much more intelligent than I am. And they saw different results. And part of that could have been luck but I also know that I applied to certain colleges, and I didn't hear good results, because I wasn't as prepared for them. So I would say it's most important for you to know what you're getting into, be as prepared as possible to really craft as strong of an application as you can, and thankfully, I had Crimson. Crimson was so gracious to provide me a scholarship and to just assist me in this process, because without them, I don't think a student like me, from Macon, Georgia, would have been able to even go to Harvard.


Alex

Yeah, well, I know that having the support of people who have been there and done that before is really important, right? And one of the things that I love about Crimson is that when a student does come up to us and say, ‘Hey, I'm aiming for Stanford, or Harvard, or MIT or Oxford, or Cambridge’ or whatever. We say, ‘okay, cool. What have you got? Let's see if that's a realistic option.’ And if it is a realistic option, alright, let's work at it. Like, it's great to be at a company, where they're like, ‘You've got a dream, let's see if we can make that happen.’


Eunice 

Yes, I think that's so important, because I've never had that response before. Whether it's with my parents or with teachers or my college counselor, they felt compelled to tell me what I couldn't do. They felt compelled to give me a reality check. But I already did. Yes, there is some level of delusion to be had if you're going to apply to certain colleges. But that wasn't what I needed. And I think students are more mature than adults sometimes want to think in terms of hearing bad news. Yes, I was bitter. I'll admit that. But in no way was I feeling like I had nowhere to go or I was only going to apply to Harvard, I applied to so many other schools as well. And so it wasn't a reality check that I needed. It was someone saying, ‘Okay, let's do what we can.’


Alex 

Yeah, and that's super important to be able to get that support. But Eunice, it's been awesome. having you on the show. It's been awesome chatting and getting all your insights and, and, and wisdom.