Struggling to reconcile your personal values with the ones you've learned from friends, family, the society you live in? We explore this in this conversation with Laura Jean, a registered dietitian and coach for health and professionals who want a values based business where you and the humans you work with can flourish.
Laura shares how we can befriend our judgments and use our values to inform our actions so we can get a little closer to who we are. We talk about the role of judgments in our lives, how they help us stay safe, and how to distinguish between our own values and those imposed on us.
We also unpack how our values influence our decisions, sense of safety, and relationships with ourselves and the world around us. What does it mean to define success based on our values, and how can we work towards our goals while staying true to ourselves?
Get in there and give it a listen for more!
Laura Jean on IG
Dietitian Values Podcast
Workbook Resource
Resources:
Manage Your Stress Mentorship
Discovery call
You can find more about Brain-Body Resilience and JPB:
On the BBR Website
On Instagram
On Facebook
Sign up for the BBR newsletter
Struggling to reconcile your personal values with the ones you've learned from friends, family, the society you live in? We explore this in this conversation with Laura Jean, a registered dietitian and coach for health and professionals who want a values based business where you and the humans you work with can flourish.
Laura shares how we can befriend our judgments and use our values to inform our actions so we can get a little closer to who we are. We talk about the role of judgments in our lives, how they help us stay safe, and how to distinguish between our own values and those imposed on us.
We also unpack how our values influence our decisions, sense of safety, and relationships with ourselves and the world around us. What does it mean to define success based on our values, and how can we work towards our goals while staying true to ourselves?
Get in there and give it a listen for more!
Laura Jean on IG
Dietitian Values Podcast
Workbook Resource
Resources:
Manage Your Stress Mentorship
Discovery call
You can find more about Brain-Body Resilience and JPB:
On the BBR Website
On Instagram
On Facebook
Sign up for the BBR newsletter
Hello friends, and welcome back to the Brain Body Resilience podcast. I'm your host, JPB, and today I have a very special guest. I am here with my dear friend, Laura Jean, who you know. I put that all into one, Laura Jean. That's a first and a last name.
Speaker 1:But I'm so excited to have you here. We originally met through our kind of business networking group, and when I say business networking group it's so much more than that, but I don't know how to explain the depth of what that group has meant to me. But we met there. It's been a couple of years, I think somewhere deep pandemic, and I've gotten to know each other through that. And so, if you would we tell the people a little bit about what you do in your life, for work, for business, who you are.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Thank you for having me. Yep, so my name's Laura. Also answer to Laura Jean. Somebody messaged me the other day. Oh, I didn't realize that was your surname. This, yes, laura Jean, is very commonly my full, full reference point now. So that is absolutely fine. And so I'm based in Australia, as you can probably now, the big reveal has happened as I've begun talking, and I am a dietitian by training, but really I'm just a human over here, human in as long as as well as everyone else is, I imagine, and I have a lot of labels or categories that I fall into around things. So, yeah, dietitian, I've been practicing as a dietitian for 20 years and I'm a mom, I'm a gardener, I'm an avid reader and podcast listener and all of those kind of things, so many things that I'm sure people can yet understand or relate to, I hope.
Speaker 2:And yeah, business and entrepreneur as well, so my work is primarily around supporting people who are business owners entrepreneurs to bridge the gap between the values that they hold as a human or as a practitioner or clinician, and the values that they're asked to take on as business owners and entrepreneurs and to help them find a way to remove the disconnect and to find a, I suppose, to set a values based foundation for their business, the work they want to put out in the world and the human they want to be.
Speaker 1:I love all of that. Thank you, welcome. I'm so happy you're here. I always love our conversations. I'm so happy to share this with everyone. There was so much in there that my brain was just like oh, there's a lot to talk about, just in that how. I guess let's dive right in. How do you know what your values are, as opposed to, like you said, the values that might be somebody else's or that you're asked to operate within? And then I want to I also. How do we know what our values are? Let's start that, okay.
Speaker 2:So I think the second part of that, which I'll just jump straight into it, becomes how we disconnect and that's, I'm just going to say straight up, lifelong work, you know, like that's ongoing. So how do we know what our values are? I think that it sometimes starts like some people it depends because, differently, everyone's a bit different. Some people just really know what their values are and we know these people right, we see them taking action and all like just showing up in the world, in our lives, like just so, like with the difference we really grounded in who they are and that and how they are. And it's not that we, you know other people don't know who they are, as necessarily there's so much other influences and programming and experiences that ask us to be different ways. You know, I feel like, with a lot of the work that you share and like almost like any kind of like self development work, is really that discovering who we already were, like who we are, like who we really are, and that's what I feel like. That's how we know what our values are. When we have, when we can feel regulated, when we can feel grounded in who we are, we probably found that space. How do we physically know. Well, it just takes a little bit of like, I suppose, scratching around and playing about, of like what comes up for you, so you can kind of dig into finding your values by there's this many exercises out there. Words are a great place to start, so looking at word lists, words that resonate with us and things and words don't always work for everyone right. So how we feel can be an indicator of our values, whether we're acting into them or not. So often that feeling of maybe something's not quite right, something you can't put your finger on, that can be like a message or information from, or many things obviously. But our values can play a part in that.
Speaker 2:One of my well, I will say it is kind of favorite now places to find my values is in my judgments. I used to judge myself really hard for having judgments because I wanted to be this quote unquote good person. And then, you know, learn to look at my judgments a different way. Through my own kind of journey and with the help of our joint friend James Lee, we are two human around befriending your judgment and finding why, only what's in there. And as I've done more work around values, I've realized that in our judgments. We can find a lot of information about our values, our resentment. We can find some information about our values, particularly about how we do or don't turn our values towards ourselves. So there's lots of places where we can find them.
Speaker 2:How do we know if we've got them? It kind of just takes acting into them and checking in on all of those little indicators. Usually there's a really, there's a felt sense. Oh, like I feel like it's very similar to like that feeling that we have when we are feeling grounded in our nervous system, that kind of exhale. It's like having that feeling when we make decisions, having that feeling when we have interactions with people, when we're showing up in our values. And it's not always like there is discomfort sometimes to be shown about values because of what we're, how we're asked to show up. So does that kind of answer your question, jp? How we know, we know, yeah, but there's those messages from our bodies. It's probably a little bit like there's the, and I think it's definitely a marrying of the intellectual and the felt, like the whole human experience around it.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, there's yes, I love all of that. There's so much in there. I really appreciate that when you're feeling into your values, you have the feeling of, like you said, groundedness and instead of feeling you know a lot of the times when we feel discomfort, there's kind of I think a lot of us tend to go to the like what's wrong with me or just what's wrong, instead of and we could take that moment to pause and ask ourselves, like why doesn't this feel good? Like is this aligned with my values, and go from there. And that's why I wanted to have you on and talk to you today.
Speaker 1:I've talked so much in previous episodes about the link between our stress and our anxiety and how we kind of navigate those things through our values lens and being able to use our values as a guide, and I learned all of that from you, and so I'm really excited that you're here to expand on that and explain that a little bit better. And I love that you brought up judgment, because and this is something that, like, we've had conversations about this and I feel I feel like there's this idea, there's, you know, that kind of just statement thrown out like, oh, no judgment, it's a non-judgmental space or something, but do you think that's possible to be non-judgmental?
Speaker 2:I can and I'd put it in the same basket as like positive vibes only and that kind of situation. We're definitely shutting down parts of ourselves if we're not having judgments. Judgments keep us alive as humans. Right, like to judge, you know, from just that physical point of view, is like I judge that stick in front of me, like I judge that as a snake, like if I'm walking around in the bush right, like I'll use a good Australian analogy I judge it. I judge that stick You're a snake. It's clearly not a snake but I judge it as a snake because that's a safety response, because one time in a hundred it might be a snake.
Speaker 2:So we judge people, we judge actions and we judge things based on our experience, programming what we, the information that we know whether that's your own experience or ancestral experience or whatever it might be to keep that we have learned to keep us safe. And where that marries up, I feel like, with your work, is that it's relearning around the messages we've got around safety that maybe don't serve us anymore. The stick thing, still really solid. Like I'm gonna judge those sticks as snakes, like for the rest of my life, just in cases. But there's those other things, other judgments, perhaps around situations and experiences where we can learn new things and so where we can find information for ourselves and I think our values can support us because it can give us that next space, like I'm judging or I feel this way about something or someone, and just that opportunity again to pause and notice and ask why I think with that judgment we miss a lot of critical analysis, that opportunity to think critically. If we're not judging, then we're not thinking about it. Are we Like we're not going more than yeah, I really do feel like it's that shutting off our own experience and perception when we don't judge, or when we say we're not judging and usually that whole idea of no judgment, it's like no offense, but it's like, yeah, well, clearly I'm gonna say something offensive, no judgment.
Speaker 2:Like it's like I'm sitting over here like you know, white knuckling that try not to judge, try not to judge, try not to judge. And you know, if we're, then we're like completely bypassing our own experience in that moment and there's so much, like I mentioned before, like how we know when we're in our values or acting in our values is how we feel. Like there's a really big part of that If we're in that space of like. If you imagine how you feel when you're in situations where you're trying not to judge somebody. There's either that physical thing or you're just so up in your head like doing like circus work to try not to get judgment thoughts coming up that like there's absolutely no connection with the body or what's going on, or no connection Like we're not.
Speaker 2:It's almost like. You know, it's not as extreme as being in that stress response where it shuts off the other parts of our brain, but we're just so in our head and overthinking things in an attempt to maybe not judge something versus just recognizing it. Kind of a similar to the like in the work that I've done as a dietitian is being all around supporting particularly women, but about lots of people with their relationship with food and eating, and it's almost like how we kind of go well, I'm not going to be hungry, I'm just not going to be, and then you obsess about it. And similar to judgment. You know, when we focus on not judging, often we just that's what we're stuck with, that's what we're thinking.
Speaker 2:And then judging ourselves. Yes.
Speaker 1:And that is such a huge topic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know what let's I want to I was like where do I want to go first, cause there's so many places. But we're there, let's go there. The self judgment is such a huge source of stress for folks and I believe, after you know learning some things about values and being able to recognize things in my own life, I believe that so much of that comes from that. Judgment for ourselves comes from trying to live through the lens of other people's values and not being attuned to what our values are. A lot of the shoulds right, I should do this, I should be this way, I should like this, I should be like this.
Speaker 1:And just to, I have this example in my head my mom. I was having a conversation with her at some point and she asked me you know, do you still hold these values about the specific? It was about her religion, and I had to tell her those are your values. And I think that that can be really hard to separate and pull apart sometimes and distinguish between the values that we have learned, whether it be from our, you know, our family that we're born into, or the world around us, the society around us, the culture, telling us you know the larger cultural values and being able to, to, to, to pop up and being able to, to, to pause and take that moment to reflecting and curious about what are my values within this Are they these things that I'm told I should be or care about, or do?
Speaker 2:Absolutely, I think. I think should, should, the word should is just a great red flag for us around our relationship with ourselves and particularly our relationship with our values. You know, when we think we should do something or we say we should do something, yeah, it's such an opportunity to pause and think about why. Then that's where that judgment like judge it, Like why why?
Speaker 2:And ask and that point around those, what I kind of call that like values layering. So, like you know, over our lifetime we have all of these layers that builds up that we can be experienced by or not. And, of course, because humans are fun, complex beings, sometimes we can rebel, like the very layering of values on top of us can cause a rebellion within and to choose other values which also may not be ours. So we can be influenced either way with those experiences. So, yeah, from our family of origin, educational institutions, community groups, religious groups, professional organizations, workplaces, they all have values and then we're within that, we're nested in the culture and social aspects of our identities and also then, where we do so, there's all of those things and even just geography, like the values of, like the different values, say, in Australia versus, say, the US or Canada or wherever else anybody might be listening which obviously there's more countries in the world than that. So you know, so there's that real layering of values over our lifetime and so I think that the I suppose the work kind of becomes when we start looking at what are my values or we start asking that question is that peeling back of those layers and just asking ourselves you know, it's almost like Marie Kondo in our values Does this bug join? But you know, finding those kind of spots and thinking, well, is this my values? And the work around that nervous system, stuff of like all supporting ourselves or taking care of ourselves when we realize it isn't, when we have to face those moments where we have to tell people or share with things that, yeah, no, that isn't my values anymore and there's a level of discomfort in either one. Right, there's that activation of our nervous system and when we are making choices in our values, there's that background feeling of being grounded. It's still uncomfortable, but I kind of feel like it's like, you know, for people who like the tree analogy or like a like visuals, kind of like a big tree, right, you're still, you're grounded, you're always root. Well, unless there's like a really giant windstorm. You know, I'm not there's no absolutes here, right, but if we use that one, if we take it at face value, you know you really grounded and rooted in the ground and the tree can still Play and move in the wind and can lose its leaves, like you know, it's still impacted by the environment around that. So our values are Like nothing is a, you know, a Complete, you know magic wand answer and it can give us a real sense of physical grounding and it can also give us that sense of a space to come back to.
Speaker 2:You know, when we are Stressed, dysregulated, um, whatever it might be, when we are in those spaces of relating, when we are in those spaces of judging ourselves, there's the opportunity to just ask whose values am I, am I running this through? Whose values am I judging my actions or thoughts through? Are they mine? Because if they are yours, then that judgment, or that which is really just checking in with ourselves, right, that judgment is giving us information around who we really want to be. And if they aren't ours, then that judgment is giving us information about who we really want to be too, because we don't want to be that person, we don't want to act into those values. So, rather than who we want to be is probably a better way to think about how we, how we want to be because we are who we are, but how we want to be, how we want to act, how we want to show up and how we choose.
Speaker 2:And so judgment Gives us information around the kind of human we want to show up as, and so, yeah, I say Mine that baby for for all the good stuff, because it's going to give it to. If you know, if we're, if we're open to Similar to you, know how I'm sure you talk about Often, too, is about how, like the things that um Impact our nervous system, give us information about ourselves and about what feels safe or not for us.
Speaker 1:Our values can too, and our judgment oh, my goodness, I, I love everything that you're saying, uh, and I love the way that you say it. I just so much enjoy our conversations. Um, I really appreciate the? Um, just the highlight of the fact that the, the places that we navigate throughout our days, throughout our lives, all have different sets of values educational institutions, your Workplace, your family, your religion, or you know, and and so on.
Speaker 1:And so it's not that there are, I and I think, just having that understanding that there are multiple sets of values that we are having to navigate throughout our time, and so that's why it's so important to understand what your values actually are, so that you can be Grounded and rooted in the ground and every time I hear you say rooted, I get a giggle. But you know, so that we can, you know, we will sway with you, know and be affected by our environment always, but when we have that understanding and that uh, foundation of strength that that your values give you, you have a platform to stand off, and you can always come back to that and then get curious about, like, why doesn't this thing feel good? Is it because it is not within my value set? And, and I think something that ties into. That is the, is the idea of like boundaries, based on your values right.
Speaker 1:And I think that, um, well, something that that, uh, our friend James Olivia had said, that that really stuck with me, is this idea that Boundaries are not a wall that you put up, which I think is something that has I don't know if that's new or if it's just something I have become more aware of that people are, you know, like this is my boundary and this is it and this is this wall I'm putting up, and you have to abide by my boundary. But boundaries are, you know, our commitments dictate our boundaries, right?
Speaker 1:And that's what that's what I learned from, uh, james, olivia and I just I love that and I feel like it's the same with with values, right, like these are my values and you have to abide by them because it's what I value, and that's not true, right? We all get to choose our own values or discover what they. I guess that's do we choose our values or do we just uncover what they are?
Speaker 2:I think there's probably a bit of a combination. I think you can decide what's, you decide what's important to you and how you want to be in the world, and you can. I think you can decide Um, and you can. You can make choices and and act differently to, to act into them. I mean, I think some of it's wired and it's definitely shaped by all of our experiences and for, you know, a majority of people there isn't that conscious choice. So everyone, a lot of people, are running around acting into the values of those, all of those experiences in their life. And it's interesting what you're saying before about that whole.
Speaker 2:Like you know, we really get influenced and it's not like necessarily nefarious activity, but all of those different spaces want us to have their values right because, as humans and and within the human experience, and we, we want, we want to, you know, like they're in, particularly within our culture Of what we have, is that a rager of difference and value uses one way, another way, another tool, another way that people can be homogenized and brought together, so having the same values, and often some of those groups are people brought together by values.
Speaker 2:So if we think of like religious groups and community groups, often the values is the piece that unites them and what becomes a slippery slope is like towards the idea that you have to have the same values versus the values aligned. And as humans, as we navigate those different spaces, as we navigate relating and relationships, we can, we, we can hold that. We don't have to have the same values. We can be values aligned, we can be like, valued. We can find just value connection. It doesn't have to be, you know I will. I can only agree with or hang out with people who have the same values as me.
Speaker 2:You know we can hold their, their humanity and still, still see that. So there's that, that piece of recognizing that those other spaces will Ask us to take on their values, will ask us to act into their values, they being, you know, either the system or all the actual humans. You know you might be in a relationship with somebody who wants you to act into their values and you do it too right. We do too. We want everyone like. Sometimes our Judgment and annoyance at other people is because they're not acting into our values or they're not giving Us our values, you know, not acting towards us in our values and so it's just that recognition that everyone's values are different or these settings have different values.
Speaker 2:So there's lots of values going on right and it doesn't mean anything or say anything about anyone. There's not an homogenous. So sometimes there's this idea of values, or even like ethics and morality, like there's this like one right way.
Speaker 2:Which is a value of our culture. So, no, there's no hierarchy when it comes to values. There's no values that are better, more, you know, top of the chain or whatever. Like Values just are. They're like I I define values which I didn't, which I probably should have at the start to come to a shared understanding around it are characteristics that underlie our attempts to get our needs met.
Speaker 2:The dictionary defines values as like morals and principles and like there's all this judgment going on, but I feel like they're just neutral, they're just and it's interesting you brought up when James Libya said about the commitments, because we've had a few conversations and what they call commitments Um is, is very close to how I conceptualize values, and so that whole idea of the boundaries and and having boundaries Is that they are our commitment to our values, our commitment to how, who we want to be, those characteristics we want to act into Um and because we're setting you know, when we see that stuff about the walls and things with boundaries, because people are setting boundaries inside Culture, inside systems that have a certain set of values, boundaries become rules and most of the time people aren't Making boundaries, they're making rules.
Speaker 2:They're making rules to tell people and themselves how to be um and it's more about control, often Um and so, and I found this myself through my own journey of, you know, quote, unquote, boundaries. Because that's like you know, once you, once you've mastered self care, move on to boundaries. Or I don't know, maybe do boundaries and then self care. You know, tick, tick, tick around the whole, like the, the, those kind of buzzy Hot topic in things. But the way that boundaries have been conceptualized is is walls, and I see this picture of fences all the time, so like don't have a brick wall fence, have a pailing fence where there's gaps, and it's like Keep going, keep going.
Speaker 1:You know, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's, it's, it's a rule. Yeah it's a rule, it's not a boundary, and that's okay.
Speaker 1:You can have rules, so we can just be really honest about what they are we don't just to be clear. What is, what's the difference between a rule and a boundary?
Speaker 2:A rule is telling somebody yourself are the people how they have to show up, how they have to be To. You know it's it's. It's it's a telling you have to or you should. Usually there's some shoulds involved. Right, they should Recognize my boundary. I told them this thing. They should. It's it's often really trying to control behavior and thoughts of your, you or other people. So it's usually about control. You know they won't listen to my boundary. That means they won't follow my rule.
Speaker 2:Right, a boundaries for no one else but yourself in my and you know I'm talking about through my, how I conceptualize it, which it isn't how anyone else has to. But I'll give you what I've got around. It Is that it is them for me and my relationship with my bound, my values and and and my and it's not a rule for myself either. If I have a boundary, it's fluid. It's and not fluid as in. You know, because this, there's this idea, right, if you let people, if your boundaries aren't strong like that fence, then you're not. You've got to try harder. You've got to keep push. You know you've got to. You've got some boundary work. It kind of feels like that whole idea of you've got mindset work.
Speaker 2:Um, so A boundary is my like. I really appreciate those words of James Olivia and and they have helped me to Put words around how I feel around it, um, around that. It's a commitment, it's my commitment to me. I see it as my commitment to my values. So if I have a boundary, it is, it's kind of like the edge of of how, of maybe my my thoughts and actions around around something, um, how I want to show up, um because and sometimes we, you know because then, um, so let's think of a boundary, let me think of one, so a boundary might be around.
Speaker 2:You know, spaces I I want to go to because of so. So one of my values is around Resources, and so there's physical resources, so environment, but there's also me as a human, me as a resource, and so I mentioned I have a lot of labels. So my mom, I'm a business owner, um, like my garden, like to do all these things, so sometimes boundaries are around um Monitoring my energy and saying no to things, right, and so it is saying no.
Speaker 2:I used to have a rule Um, no activities after 4 pm On a Sunday, because I was trying to protect Me as a resource, but that was a rule, right. And then I came up against somebody other people, and like oh, but this thing's on and that thing. And then it's like, no, I've got a boundary, but it was a rule, and a boundary looks like checking in with myself how do I feel today? What's my energy like? So the other week, my, my boundary was I didn't get out of bed really on a sunday, like I just needed to rest and If I'm sick into the rule, well, I probably could have done something in the morning and and not had. You know, like a rule is really dictating our, yeah, control. It's a more about control, like so, and boundaries that are rules, that are fences that are telling me or somebody else how to be. It's about control, which you know our nervous system and we love it, you know.
Speaker 2:As humans a nice space to try and find safety and has it working out for us. That's great. So, boundary, I feel, is more. It's a moment by moment, relating to myself and my values. It's where a boundary comes from. I just don't think it's a strict thing. It's just what am I like, similar to what James Olivia says. What am I committed to? To live into this value in this moment?
Speaker 1:And I love that the moment to moment relating rather than trying to control and again tying back to the stress and anxiety that I work with so much is that is such a huge factor in our internal stress is that need to control. And again, our nervous system is just trying to keep us safe, right, it wants to know what's going on, it wants to be able to predict what's happening so it can tell the story and it can know whether we're in danger and survive. But that control piece, that stranglehold of control we feel like we need to control ourselves, which I think is so much of it causes so much internal chaos because then we start to feel out of control and that feels very uncomfortable where we don't need to be controlling ourselves, we need to be relating to ourselves and connecting, yes, so I really I love that and I appreciate that, and I know that you talk a lot about values.
Speaker 1:I've been trying to think of how you phrase this and I don't know if I'm going to try and get there, but I'm asking for help. Values as verbs, is that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, values as verbs and actions? Yes, definitely. And one thing I'll just add to as we wrap up that last bit is around boundaries and rules. If you want a little quick litmus test, if you can do it right or wrong, then it's a rule, it's not a boundary. Or if someone else can do it right or wrong, it's a rule.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. I love that. That's such a good practice, because there is this oh my gosh, and there is so much of that feeling of like I'm scared to do it wrong, or how do I do it right, or oh my gosh, and so much, and then the judgment and the shame and the blame and the whole circus rolls out. Yeah, I love that. Yeah if you can do it right or wrong, it's a rule. Thank you, I like that.
Speaker 2:No problem. So, yeah, so values as verbs. So when I began my deep dive into values and was looking at it and thinking because this is something that probably has just kind of been not like, oh, it just comes naturally to me, like it's just like falls out and my brain and the way that I kind of conceptualize the world and my experience, I often went to my values without really knowing it. So then I suppose I was looking at, like what's this process that I use? Or how do I hold, like, what do I have around values and a lot of like those values, word based exercises. If anyone's ever done one of those value finders, you know there's a list of words on there and often there'd be these things like family and as a value, and it didn't really, and you know it took me a little little bit just of thinking around and reflecting around why that really didn't sit with me as far as like what I thought of as a value. Because I, if we go back to that definition I use, which is characteristics that underlie our attempts to get our needs met, a value is, yeah, it's like shown in our actions, and so what are the difference I have there is that there we have values. So that's, that's our actions and how we show up. And then there's things we value, or spaces or places. So if it's a noun, if it's, and those things we value, they're the places where we act into our values. So if you think like, oh well, family is important to me, or serving others is a value, they're not values because you can't well, you can act into serving others. But the other piece that I'll add around values is they need to go, they need to be multi-directional, you need to be able to turn them back towards yourselves. So serving might be your value.
Speaker 2:So helping others, serving others, which for a lot of people in there, helping and health professions that's kind of, like, you know, supposed to be a quote, unquote value. Health is supposed to be a value, for example, but that is something we value, right. And how do we show up for ourselves around our health? Well, our good friend Erica Webb would talk about we show up with kindness and self-compassion. That's a value, that's how you show up. But you can put that kindness and self-compassion in many parts of your life. So your health, your family, your workplace, your work, they're not values, but they're things you value.
Speaker 2:So we look at our values as things we can act into, because you know how you mentioned it and I talk about it a lot our values are a guide, so they guide us where we want to go, they guide us how we want to be, and so they actually need to tell us, not as in like some sort of magic eight ball that's going to tell us we can wrap words around our values and that tells us, that guides us. That's what gives us a space to ground in and a place to come back to and a place to judge our behavior from in, you know, because judgment doesn't have to be positive or negative, so we can have a value. So I mentioned before, like how you know using resources or that kind of sustainability regeneration is probably the word I'm using more now of resources is a value, is a value for me will regeneration, you know being regenerative, and so my values based action statements about that is a regenerative use of resources for me, my community and the environment, and that gives me a lot more information than just saying my value is regeneration. So it tells me that. But it also defines the word and this is another thing when people are working on their values is to define your words by you, by how you hold them and by your values as well, because some words can be different and I've had this.
Speaker 2:I have actually had this conversation with James Lever on my podcast around fairness and justice right. So fairness and justice are really interesting words and they're part of my values set and what, how I define those or how, how the actions around me is spaces for people to be seen, heard and known, and that feels like fairness and justice to me and that might be any kind of space, any kind of place or in relationships, in relating and it's it's about not just humans, it's about the earth as well. So justice for the environment and is is like for it to be seen, heard and known, and somebody else's definition of justice might be a more punishment driven definition of justice, right or fairness might be. Everyone gets the same thing. So really defining those words and by wrapping those action based words and turning them into verbs and actionable statements, allows us to see how we define those values for how we act to other people, but also how we act to ourselves.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, I, yes. So so much you. You touched on so many of these things that I made a few notes before we started of the things that I've wanted to touch on that I've heard you speak about before, and so much of that was in there, just about turning our values towards ourselves. Because I think you know, and a lot of the work that I do with people is understanding that you know, self care means you have to pay attention to yourself. Right, you have to. You have to, you do have to turn your values towards yourself. It's not about you can't just give forever. You have to refill to have something to give.
Speaker 2:And when we do, sorry we're using a cultural based definition of a value If we're not turning to, if it can only go one way. So if it's serving others, compassion, if they only go one way, then it's not. It's a cultural based or setting based definition of those words. Because if our values can't be turned to ourselves, they're either not values they're those spaces or places or something we see as important or we're using a cultural definition. So compassion is a really good one, particularly for people who have been socialized as women.
Speaker 2:Compassion for somebody socialized as a woman, within, you know, western dominant cultures is giving of yourself to other people. There's nothing about compassion turning towards you because of so many things. And so if there's no opportunity to turn your value towards yourself, it's either something you value so it goes in that different category, it's not an actual value or you're using the cultural definition. There's like some sort of cultural definition going on, social kind of. There's influences right On how we're defining that and so in that case yeah, come back to how, if there's some, if you can't do it or there's a disconnect, like well, if I show compassion to somebody else I can't show compassion to myself, then again we're using like a definition. That's really been, I suppose, overrun by other values. Like it's a values, it's an externally values driven definition of that word.
Speaker 1:So it's not originating from us, it's not truly our value, based on our definition. Yeah definitely I love that and the piece of the action because I have taken. You know those like what are your values? Find these, pick these words off this chart and and I see all these words that I like, I'm like, yeah, I agree with that one, I like that thing. And then I would just end up with this like list of words and like, okay, but what does this mean?
Speaker 2:Like how do?
Speaker 1:I still was so unclear about what are my values Like I ended and having that, that piece, to differentiate. These are things that I value and those can help me find what my values are, those can guide me to look in these directions. But just having this like list of paper or list of words on a paper that's you know, family, education, health or you- know whatever. It's like okay, but what does that mean?
Speaker 2:Well, how do I?
Speaker 1:how do I know if I'm living in my values based on these words, and having that action piece of acting in in your values makes so much more sense for me and I feel like, is you know? It's just a, it's more useful. It's a more useful piece to help guide your actions and and and your curiosities. It gives you some kind of guidance into, like is this, am I acting into these things? Can I turn it towards myself? Is there a lot of should in there? So, is this coming from outside of me? How does this feel in my body? All of those things? I think it's such a, it's such a great guide and that's why I appreciate your take on it so much, because it just makes so much more sense to me of how to how to get there, instead of just like, oh, here's this list of words and that's, these are my values, but like, then what do I do with?
Speaker 2:it and we've all been part of settings and maybe it starts in our family of origin or you know education settings or workplaces where there's these lists of values. Right, these are our values. You know, I actually say that to my kids. They're not the values of our family, but that's when actions have not reflected, you know, and often again, it's used as like or it's lip speak or it's like you know some words on a glossy brochure and it means nothing. And that's because, yeah, there's no, none of that kind of taking it into that next level of well, how do we actually show up? And am I committed to that? And it's a great way.
Speaker 2:You know, one of your very first questions was how do we know our values? It's like when you start wrapping words around your values and you're like I don't want to show up like that, then maybe it's not your value, maybe it's other people's values or other people's definitions of those words. Yeah, absolutely. And so people want to go finding their values or they've done those word exercises or they've tried them, but then they end up with like 30,000 values because all those words resonate.
Speaker 2:So what I would suggest or offer up to people is like go through those lists and pull out the words that resonate and then go and look at it and, based on how you think about words and how you feel about words, either you might be, depends on where you kind of land in like for you. Some people are more, think about words more, or some people feel them more, and so then group them together, so like put them together. So when I look at my values, action, statements, they are different things grouped together. So what are the words that kind of go to you? They get a few and they don't have to make sense for anyone else. So you might have compassion and justice where somebody else might say, no, compassion, goes over here with kindness or whatever it might be. So write all the lists, all the words that resonate with you, and then group them.
Speaker 2:What words come together for you in little, in categories that make sense to you, and then from that you can go okay, well, looking at those words, what kind of actions or how do I show up when I'm embodying that, when I'm living that value and those kind of statements can help us to give us an information about how we should, how we should, how we can show up, how we're inviting ourselves to. But also there's that opportunity when judgment comes up, when resentment comes up, when all of those things to go over to our values, and go, huh, what's here? What's information for me? Where can I be when we're making decisions you know, obviously I work with business owners and entrepreneurs a lot when we're making decisions around collaborations or when we're making decisions around the next step and I mean that could be in life as well Does it take me towards my value? Does it actually move me towards embodying that statement that I have for myself and it's just for us? Right?
Speaker 2:Values are person specific, not setting specific. Now, there can be spaces where you know you come together and you agree on a set of values as part of an organizational community, but doesn't negate your values as a human. And so your values are person specific and you can take them with you wherever you go and use them for information and guiding and grounding and all that good stuff, and not as a self-flagellation tool, but as a kind of soft place to land and bring yourself back to, to give you just that reminder. It's like you know, we, you know, remember those cartoons as a kid of like the good angel and the bad, like the devil, sitting on your shoulder and the situation.
Speaker 2:I just don't know why that popped up in my head there, but I feel like we can jump off shoulders and hierarchies but our values can give us like more, like somebody, like a good friend sitting in front of us, that we can run things by.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that because I think that's the thing too. I think, like you mentioned this earlier, there is this idea, or at least you know from from my experience and understanding. There there is an idea of values being something that gives you some kind of like moral superiority. I think that a lot of times in certain spaces, values are talked about that way or understood in that way.
Speaker 1:Because of my values, I you know, am on a different level in this hierarchy right and used again, yes, as a means of control and and that's not that doesn't have to be the version of values that we know and live into and understanding that more and more and exploring what my values are and and what I value and how can take actions to live into that and and relate to myself and others through that lens, it's really changed the way that I understand the options of how to show up right and the idea that I don't need to control everything but I can try and maybe understand it and relate to it through those values.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:And and yeah, if anything just for people to really hold is that values aren't a tool to to control ourselves, and if we start using it like that, that's okay.
Speaker 2:We can, we can recognize that, and then we can go back to our values and ask am I acting into myself in my values, around my values? And it's not something to be perfect about and if perfectionism will be perfect on your set of values and I'd ask you to have a little look at the work by team Oaken and Kenneth Jones around the values of supremacy culture, because it could be that we're acting into other people's values there spoiler you are and so really looking at our values and looking at and and it's great, once you've done that work of like teasing them out and putting some statements and then you can kind of cross check them with your actions how am I showing up? And I would like to add that yet it's not about being perfect, it's not about another tool to beat ourselves up with, and sometimes we do have to make decisions that aren't aligned to our values for other commitments, and I can I always hold that word that James Libby uses, because I think it's really helpful.
Speaker 2:Sometimes we might have a commitment to safety, a commitment to getting other needs met that asks us, that that mean that in that moment, accessing and acting into our values is not the choice that we make and that's about being. That's how to be in human, so it's not a. If there's a right way in a wrong way to do values, then then we're not doing values right, so we're failing, or any of those words, any of those kind of things you know I talked about. Judgment is Okay and befriending our judgment, and that's not that stuff. That's not judgment. That's different. That's like criticism and self-criticism.
Speaker 2:We can be critical thinkers without being critical of ourselves around and criticizing ourselves, and so when there's those kind of feelings or words coming up, then there's a really good chance someone else's values are getting involved here, or some cultural values. So just watch out for that, when you are acting into your values, that you aren't using them as another way to control yourself or try and control others. That you aren't using it as a way to yeah, punish or feel bad about yourself or judge your, judge yourself negatively. I'll add that extra bit to judgment and also that it's not a yeah, like that sometimes there will be, that we will make choices, that it's not. But to get our needs met, acting into our values is not the choice in this moment, and that's okay too.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love that reminder and just the, which is the idea that, again, nothing is perfect and that the idea of perfection was was made up and a story that's been told to us, and and that life is full of complexity, right, so it's not gonna be one way all the time and sometimes we have to assess what, what is this, what is most useful right now, and maybe To honor this commitment that I have, the values have to have to take a pause in this moment, and that doesn't mean that we've thrown our values out or that we're going against our values or that we've failed in our values or something like that, because we are ever evolving, human beings who are learning and experiencing and Revising and and having experiences that that help us to shape how we go forward right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. We can go back to that little litmus test before. If you can do it, right or wrong, it's a rule. It's not a value, it's not about. It's a rule. And I and one thing I often add around the verb piece which I didn't say before. So I do say values of verbs and I also. My other sentence, I usually follow that up with, is a values are actionable, yes, and Aspirational, so we do act into them and we aspire to them as well. It's not, and that's just a reminder to me and to everyone that our values are something we're moving towards.
Speaker 2:It's not a it's not an endpoint, it's not a, it's not a destination.
Speaker 1:So, yes, we act into them and we aspire to them too and it's something that's I don't know coming up in my head and I want to run it by you here. You know, with a lot of, a lot of the, a lot of women that I work with are Very driven, very high, achieving Very self-critical, very hard on themselves and have very strict kind of rules about what should or shouldn't be, how they should or shouldn't feel, all of these things. And so if you're value and I have ideas about how, how we're, what you might say here but if you value success and Something that comes with, that seems to be, you know, I think there's often a fear that if you're not hard on yourself or you're not kind of Critical, that you won't reach that Success. And so if you have something that you value like that, how do you what? Where do you go? How do you? How do you approach that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so if we come back to that idea, so success is something we value. It's not a value, so it's not. We can't act and can act Successful I suppose, but you can't act into right like so, but it's so. It's a place where you will have your values and so then you can come to your values. What are your values? What is your values based definition of both Success as a, as an endpoint spoiler Nothing's an endpoint, but, like you know, if you're defining it Like what would it feel and look like to attain success, but also how you get there, because if you attain any definition of success, whether it's yours or our general cultural narrative Through actions that are not embedded in your values, it's not going to feel like success.
Speaker 2:So, it's twofold with success one, having your own definition. That actually means when you get there it feels aligned. But then also how you get there feels aligned to, because even if you have like so, for instance, you know I mentioned one of my values is around taking care of resources, both mine and the environment. And If I was to get there in a way that's like it's just as much Around how I act and show up every day to take care of resources and the environment, then to get to a point where you know I've got time and space to relax and do things. So, yes, so it's both ends there of like how we define success or what we're aiming for, where we're moving towards and how we get there. Because both of them are really important with our felt sense of success.
Speaker 2:Because we've all seen those examples and maybe you know people who look like they quote unquote should have a successful Like. You know they've reached it right, they've got the wealth, and this is the definition of success is to attain. I can't remember the other word, but anyway it's about attain in a certain outcome. And then the cultural definition, additional bit as around in relation to power and wealth. So success is to attain, to attain an outcome, to attain something, to be successful, and you get to decide the thing the next bit of that sentence through your values. And we see people who have the cultural definition of success and do not feel successful, do not feel content, do not feel grounded, do not feel happy, insert any of those ideas of how we, how we will be when we reach success, and part of that, I think, is when we don't define what success is, but also how we get there you know, maybe wealth is a marker of success for you as an individual, and that is fine.
Speaker 2:And how you get to that point of feeling wealthy, of having that, and you know you can use like remit, see these having that. And you can use like remit seethes definition of what does wealthy feel like. It can feel different for everyone and how you get there is going to be different. Are you going to feel wealthy if you are getting there through the playbook of capitalism, of extraction and exploitation and Palludina River here and there, etc. Will that feel like wealth and success to you or not? And so it's both of those pieces.
Speaker 2:So sometimes we can lose sight of the how, the process with, because we're so like focused it's kind of like you know with horses in horse racing how they put the little what they call blinders on them so they can't see, so they can just see straight ahead, the finish line. And when we are just focusing on that success, then we miss the really important pieces. How we get there plays in just as much around how successful we will feel and how successful our experience will be. Because what if we never get there? We can still feel successful in the process, right Like, or when we do get there, if we haven't, if the process, the process is the point. The process is living life, right? It's our every day, the endpoint of living life. I don't think anyone wants to get there in a hurry, right? So it's the process.
Speaker 1:It's not funny, though we are so urgent and we rush so many things, all the while trying to stop the aging process and slow that down. It's such a contradiction, absolutely.
Speaker 2:We've got to push and rush along, yeah, except there's only one end point.
Speaker 1:I love that. It is the process, I think, in that you can define success as showing up. I showed up for this thing. I think that's the point here, right, you get to define your values, you get to define what these things mean to you and then how to live into those.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Success for me in my business is I feel successful when I have spaces where people are seen, heard and known, when people can see themselves, when I have a space for myself where I'm seen, heard and known, where I can show up in a way that I have value my resources, the resources of others, and create spaces for regeneration for that, where we all go away feeling resourced. That's this feeling of success to me. Part of resourcing within a capitalist culture, yes, is money and finance. That is part of it. It wouldn't feel successful to me personally to say amass wealth without that regeneration of resources for the community and the environment. Piece that might regenerate. Regenerate might feel like the end point of that is a feeling of regenerative resource. For me it misses out those other bits of my values based definition, statement of my community and my environment. Then the question for me becomes well, what's that like if we use money, because it's often one in LinkedIn, it says so for me what's my number? What's my regenerative number? That also includes all of those ways I want to act into that value. That's just one example of how we can use our values.
Speaker 2:It doesn't mean that oh well, I've got a value of taking care of the environment. Therefore, well, I can't have wealth, I can't have this or that, because that means I'm not. It's where's that space of where we act into that value, we encompass it and we embody it as a whole. We're not segmenting it off in parts. For me, to have it means you can't have it or they can't have it. How do we find that space of holding those complexities? Yes, how do we redefine that where I'm moving towards to allow for all of that? It's not either or right or wrong. That can change and shift.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's important too is to understand that you also get to change your mind. Maybe if you learn certain things, you have experiences, you uncover pieces or just integrate new information, your values may shift. I think that's something too, that sometimes there's an idea that it's a fixed thing. I don't think that. I don't know that. I think anything is really fixed in this human experience because there's constant change inside of us, outside of us and especially if we are going along this process and then we have this new information that we come to understand or understand in a different way A lot of the times, maybe about ourselves and how we want to be in the world, or what we think is available to us or what we believe we're capable of, how we want to show up, then might change.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a moment by moment and that doesn't mean our values necessarily change moment by moment.
Speaker 2:but our values definitely change, but how we act into them can and how we show up and the choices we make, decisions we make, can change. It's a try saying, but change is the only constant and it is. It's not about removing change or having that control. I think our values are similar to the work you do around taking care of our nervous system, giving us a way to take care of ourselves, no matter the outcome, no matter the process or what's going on in our values. Give us a space to come back to and ground in, no matter the outcome, no matter when we don't act into our values. We can come back to our values and we can think well, what would that have looked like if I had to act into my values? And there's also an opportunity to think, well, why didn't I?
Speaker 2:Maybe there's something else going on, or maybe it's somebody else's value, right, that we're holding up. We think we should be doing so. There's just that, almost like a cycle, a cyclical or spiral, as Emily Reed would share with us, because we do gain more things as we move forward, a spiral of coming back to our values and checking in with ourselves. And it's just a space our values, like I said about grounding, it's just a space to connect to ourselves and really, at the end of the day, that's all it is. Everything becomes a space or an opportunity to connect to ourselves, to connect other people, connect to the world around us, whether it's through our nervous system, whether it's through our values, whether it's through joy, rest, all of those things, and how we can connect and build that connection within the world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh my gosh. I feel like that's. I'm looking at the time and we're about an hour, which is where I want to keep these, and I also feel like that is just such a perfect kind of punctuation spot, a place to leave this, because I think you've I want to say thank you. You've shared so much valuable, valuable information about these values and just these pieces. I encourage you if you're listening to you know, stop and take some of this in and maybe listen to this, listen to pieces of this that may have resonated with you More than once. I've heard you, laura, talk about these things so many times and my understanding of it continues to evolve, and I'm so grateful for you coming to share that with my podcast people. So thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, because having conversations about it and wrapping words around it builds my understanding of it too and adds to it, and so it's regenerative to me as well and my relationship with you and also with values and with that as a concept and as an instrument in creating the world we want to be part of.
Speaker 1:And how do you have anything that you want to leave the people with?
Speaker 2:If people are curious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, if people are curious to get a little bit more like around, like the meta stuff around like, well, yeah, okay, great, great, great. But how do I find these values things? Yeah, I do have some resources. I'll send the link to you, JPB, so people can. You can add it to the show notes. I've got like a three part podcast series of how people can step through that process of finding the values and like a little workbook as well. So if people want like a tool, they can go for that. If people are after more conversation or connection around this, I'm always up for chatting and connecting with people around values. So I hang out mostly on Instagram at dietician value so people want to slide into my DMs and continue the conversation.
Speaker 2:I really do welcome that.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you, and that's very generous. I will add all of all of those resources you offered to the show notes so y'all can find that here. I want to say thank you for your time and attention to this episode. I hope that you enjoyed it. If you found it useful, please share it so that other people might also find some use in it. We will do this again. Thank you for being here Until next time. I'm wishing you the most beautiful week. Jpb and Laura Jean are out of here.