BBR #183: Self-Care and Holistic Practices for Therapists with Chris McDonald

Discover how therapists can better care for themselves while supporting others with our special guest, Chris McDonald, a holistic therapist, yoga and meditation teacher, podcaster, and author.

Chris shares invaluable insights on the necessity of self-care for those who hold space for others' emotional and traumatic experiences. Learn how incorporating personal practices like yoga and mindfulness can elevate the authenticity and effectiveness of these techniques when applied in therapy sessions. Chris also delves into her mission of training therapists to integrate yoga into their professional work, emphasizing the crucial role of nervous system regulation in fostering a healthier therapeutic environment.

Chris shares the benefits of processing rather than resisting emotions, helping to ease the nervous system and reduce stress. We discuss practical techniques for inviting and allowing emotions to flow naturally and explore the integration of holistic approaches such as Qigong and art therapy.

Get in there and give it a listen for more!

Resources:
The Holistic Counseling Podcast
Find Chris on Instagram
Linked in: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-mcdonald-bb831823/
Twitter: https://twitter.com/HCPodcast8

BBR Episode #151: Busting the Myths of MIndfulness and Meditation: A talk with Addie Dihelster

Transcript

Therapist Self-Care and Holistic Wellness

Speaker 1 0:00

and welcome back to the Brain Body Resilience Podcast. I'm your host, jpb, and today we have a special guest. We are talking with Chris McDonald, and Chris is a holistic therapist, yogi meditation teacher, podcaster and author. She owns a group online practice called Path to Hope Counseling. She is a 200-hour RYT, is certified in brain spotting and offers gentle yoga to clients in session and offers yoga sessions. She specializes in treatment of anxiety, depression, trauma and grief in young adults and, to support her fellow therapists, she offers clinical consultations and supervision therapy for therapists and is the author of self care for the counselor. We're going to talk about that. I love this. She has helped many therapists prioritize their own mental health and wellness and is the host of the podcast, the holistic counseling podcast, which definitely check out. It's a great podcast and we'll leave all the information in the show notes at the end. Hi, chris, thank you for joining me. I am, yeah, thanks for having me. We recently had a conversation for your podcast and I loved it so much I just wanted to continue that conversation here.

Speaker 2 1:25

I'm so excited to be here. I've been enjoying your podcast. I feel like I learned so much just listening to you.

Speaker 1 1:31

Oh, thank you. I truly feel honored with your experience and what you do, and I feel like we just have very similar ideas about care and working with people, and so, yeah, no, it's just.

Speaker 2 1:47

isn't it awesome when you just feel like you meet people that are in alignment, and that's what I feel like with you? I feel like we're aligned and and just like really want to help people in the same kinds of ways.

Speaker 1 1:59

Yes, and shout out to Addie, to Hilster, for the introduction, and I had an episode with her last year. I think I will link that one, cause it was a great episode as well. Um, I guess, first I want to talk about providing care for caregivers, um therapy for therapists, because I just see such a need for people who are taking on so much of other people's um, or or maybe not taking on holding space for so much of other people's emotions and traumas and just things have going on in life, and providers need care as well and I think we forget that sometimes.

Speaker 2 2:56

Oh my, gosh for sure, and that's what I tell therapists I work with we need to do more self-care and people don't want to hear this, but we do. We need more because we have to offer that space and if we're not regulated, our clients are going to pick up on that.

Speaker 2 3:14

So there is that co-regulation that comes into play as a therapist, that if we're more in a good space and we're regulated, that's going to help clients to be more regulated. This is all about nervous system regulation right. And if we're calm and soothing, that's going to help them to settle down and be calmer. And to me, we're role models too. So if we're taking care of ourselves, we can say hey, you know, I've been going to the gym, I've been taking care of my body, I've been eating right. So this is something that I do as well. And sure, it can be difficult at times, but this is something that can help you too. So for me, I don't teach clients things that I don't do. So if I say you know, here's some yoga that you can use, this is something I do as well.

Speaker 1 3:59

So for me, I'm genuine in that. I feel that's really important. I I agree Absolutely. It's really easy to talk about what to do and I think most people know that things like you know movement and nutrition. We all know that those basic things are good for us. That doesn't mean that we're doing that.

Speaker 2 4:22

And nobody's a hundred percent all the time, of course.

Speaker 1 4:26

No, and I think that that's something as well to remind people that it doesn't have to be. It needs to be flexible if it's going to be consistent. But if we are not practicing the things that we are working with folks about, I don't think we. I think having that, that tangible understanding that, the experiences with working through that and for ourselves, gives us a better ability to communicate that to people rather than just. I learned this technique and now I'm passing it on to you.

Speaker 2 5:04

Yeah, so true, and I teach therapists also. I have a training for therapists on how to integrate yoga into sessions now, and part of what I tell them is you cannot enter this training unless you are embodying this practice. So you must do yoga in order to teach yoga. That's my firm belief, and that you have to have a personal practice to understand how to teach it, because it's just, it's just not going to come across the same way. Oh, here, let me do this, let me show you this, but I'm not going to do it. But you do this for work, it's just it. No, you can't. You really just have to do this as part of who. You are right, because I do yoga is integrating who I am personally and professionally. I'm a holistic person personally and professionally, so it's not like I just have it as work. It's how I incorporate my whole life.

Speaker 1 5:58

I set myself up with all these practices for who I am as a person. Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely, and I think, just like you said a moment ago, yeah, absolutely, and I think, just like you said a moment ago, it is sincere and it's, it is genuine, and I think people can, you can tell when, when something is not genuine, when somebody is not, you know, authentic in in what they're they're presenting to you.

Speaker 2 6:26

So I think that that makes a big difference, I think.

Speaker 1 6:31

I think it's really cool that you are both teaching, uh, working with therapists on how to care for themselves and also how to better care for others using different modalities, specifically working with the body. Can you talk about that?

Speaker 2 6:50

a little bit. Yeah, which part? The self-care first. Yeah, yeah. So I've been teaching therapist self-care for a while now. My first book came out in 2017.

Speaker 2 7:03

And what I realized is I really came from more of the holistic perspective and started to adopt that many years before that and thought, wow, I've really come up with something now, because I wasn't doing much self-care when I was a school counselor many years ago and I had a lot of sickness and I had migraines like three times a week and just was sick all the time. I just was really not taking care of myself. And once I started to and got to some of these more healthy routines and had more consistent exercise and nutrition, I started to feel a lot better, felt more in alignment, had more spiritual practices. I was like there's something to this and I was seeing like so many therapists were struggling with this and they wanted to give, give, give, but they're not giving to themselves. It was always outward, outward, and I would give workshops for therapists and that was the thing I was like what's, what is the obstacles getting in the way? And everybody would say me they would be getting in their own way. You know, no matter how busy, everybody's busy. Everybody's got stuff going on, but it's usually them that's not making it a priority. So that's why I wrote the book and had my self-care for the workbook companion workbook that came out too, because I thought, okay, it's great to talk about this stuff, but most people read it, they put it down and then they're onto their next task.

Speaker 2 8:20

So I thought the workbook would be great to have a place to just kind of journal and write things down, have some reflections, and not as a book just to go through from start to finish. But OK, is there parts I need to work on? Is there something I'm struggling with? Because maybe some parts you're doing well in, you know, maybe something you need to work on is social support, so let's go in there. Or maybe you need to work on more of the exercise piece, and that can be something and I also have as interactive. So there's QR codes for meditations, for yoga, self massage. So it's not just a journal that you just have a paper in your hand so you can actually get into the body, the physical practices, the physical practices and the more I've done after doing Addie's course, I did the mindful movement training, which was a 60-hour course, and the yoga training, which is 200 hours. It's a lot of hours of training.

Speaker 2 9:12

But I do movement every day and I hope to do that the rest of my life, to do some movement. Now, do I do a 90-minute yoga class every day? No, is it 10 minutes some days? Yes, that's okay, though I'm doing some movement, but what I've learned I think Addie's course really brought this to the truth of movement is healing, and that's what I've found and that's what I convey that message to my clients so much more now, because the clients that are helped the most are the ones that follow through with homework and do the most movement Period. There's no way around it.

Speaker 2 9:50

And it's hard with clients with depression, because I know it's so hard. They have low motivation. It's really difficult to get them going to be consistent. But once they do, if they can overcome that hurdle to be able to push through and move more, I'm telling you that's where the healing comes in. Yeah, there's so much and I teach the Qigong too that we learned in her course and I'm telling you, moving the energy like that, oh, it's just amazing to see what can come of that. Yeah, yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1 10:27

I love that you give people the workbook, the time to reflect and to practice those things, because we love consuming information.

Speaker 2 10:37

Let's read, but then I forget about it.

Speaker 1 10:41

Great. But you know when information is great? I think that's the starting point. But if we don't do anything with that information, it's not useful.

Speaker 2 10:51

But on to the next activity, right. What's next Exactly?

Speaker 1 10:56

I think I'm just. I love hearing that more providers are exploring working with the body because, like you said moving that energy around. It's necessary to release some of that, that, um, you know, activation energy from from the stress response, and if we're not doing that, you know CBT and DBT are, are great. I'm not a trained therapist.

Speaker 1 11:27

I don't know, I don't know what those are as far as how to practice those. But I know that changing your thinking without the ability to regulate, you know the rumination and the anxious thoughts come from that. Overactive, you know, sympathetic state, and if we're not working with that, the talk therapy can, and if we're not working with that, the talk therapy can be absolutely useful, but it can only go so far. I would love to hear your thoughts on that I was going to say.

Speaker 2 11:55

That's the CBT wall. I call it so for those who aren't aware cognitive behavioral therapy is CBT, so it's working with your thoughts. The way I describe it, too, is looking at what are more of the unhelpful thoughts and how can we challenge them and be able to put them into more, reframe them to more helpful thinking. It's not always positive and negative. Some people get that mixed up, because sometimes things can just suck and we can validate ourselves that this sucks, but I'm going to get through it right, we can say it that way instead of this sucks and it's never going to get better, because that's going to bring us down emotionally and can lead to more negative behavior. So our thoughts impact our feelings and what we do. So just keeping that in mind. But a lot of clients that I see since I'm more holistic they have done therapy for years and years and they're tired and they've hit that CBT wall and they're like I'm not getting anywhere else and I still have the anxiety, I still have the depression. I don't need anybody to validate me anymore. Validation is great.

Speaker 2 12:57

Talk therapy can be great. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it. But for some people especially those with trauma too, because trauma is so much deeper in the brain. Yeah, it just doesn't access that part of the brain, because if we're in talk therapy, we're we're in the front of our brain and trauma and anxiety especially is in the deeper parts of the brain. So we need to access that through bottom-up processing, which is usually through yoga, movement, those kinds of things, breath work, and that's what I kind of yeah, the body, yes, that's how I integrate and it's an integration so with talk therapy, so they can access some of the talk therapy as well. Sorry, my cats decided to join us.

Speaker 1 13:47

Welcome All are welcome, yeah, I love that you touched on the um the positive and negative thoughts because I think so much of the time.

Speaker 2 13:57

We don't want toxic positivity either.

Speaker 1 13:59

Yes, exactly what I was going to. You know I think so much of the time people think that if you have, you know I'm going to say negative thoughts.

Speaker 2 14:12

I want a better word, I know Unhelpful.

Speaker 1 14:15

Thank you. Unhelpful, yes, or even just the people you know, just the emotion that you know sadness, grief, anger, irritation, any that people we name as bad are just part of the human experience and we're not supposed to be void of any of those and only holding excitement and joy and all of that.

Speaker 2 14:42

Well, it's yin and yang. We got to have one to have the other Exactly.

Acceptance and Integration in Therapy

Speaker 1 14:46

Yes, and I think that's something. When folks are trying to get rid of that part and that's not working, I think that they get really frustrated and think that it's not working or it's not. You know, this doesn't work for me, especially with, I think, the talk therapy, because those things aren't changing, because we can't, we can't get rid of a piece of ourselves that's needed.

Speaker 2 15:09

Oh no, that's not going to work, and I think that I'm glad you brought that up too. Cause part of what I teach clients is learning to accept our emotions.

Speaker 1 15:18

Cause like you said we're human.

Speaker 2 15:20

It's okay to have a wide range of emotions. We're going to have anger, we're going to have sadness and if we can accept it and invite it in for tea and welcome it and I know that sounds weird and it goes against what people want oh, I don't want that. Let me push it away. Oh, that's uncomfortable. But the more that we can do that, the more we can allow it in and process it, the more it's going to be welcome and we're not going to be pushing against. The more we push against if what we resist persists and we're causing ourselves more distress by not allowing.

Speaker 2 15:54

And when we push things down, it doesn't go away. It's like an ice cube in a glass. Right, you push it down, might go down for a second, it's going to come back up in another way and the clients I see it builds up and then it overflows, sometimes with panic attacks or you know, other physical ailments, stomach issues, headaches, migraines. It's going to come out some way. But if you allow yourself to stay with the emotion and people look at me like what you want me to sit with the emotion, it's like a foreign concept, right. But just allowing that space, can I accept it and be with it and it's 90 seconds. If you can just sit with that emotion without a story, just be there, be present 90 seconds, try it, see what happens, allow yourself to process through it. You're going to be so much more healthy mentally, emotionally, so much more.

Speaker 1 16:54

I really appreciate that. I think our and I don't, I don't know, I have, I have an idea that it makes sense that we would want to push those things away.

Speaker 2 17:05

You know, our, our brain and body are always trying to protect us from discomfort and pain.

Speaker 1 17:13

And it is very much a practice sitting with things and learning to hold that space and create the capacity to do that. And again, I think you know I try to normalize those types of things and let people know there's nothing wrong with you.

Speaker 2 17:34

No, not at all, it's being human too, historically pathologized.

Speaker 1 17:40

just being a person instead of learning about what that is and how to navigate.

Speaker 2 17:48

Yeah, yeah, and of course everybody, nobody and how to navigate? Yeah, yeah, and of course everybody, nobody wants to go towards the pain. You know that's that's our natural instinct, is to want to get away from that. And it can be biological. That, you know, is to protect ourselves, is to go away from it. But the more that we can just accept, like you said, accept that's a part of ourselves, the more that's going to bring some ease into your nervous system too.

Speaker 1 18:15

The acceptance piece. Can you say more?

Speaker 2 18:17

about that. Yeah, so the acceptance can bring more ease into the nervous system. So, thinking about if you're pushing something away to me that would bring up more sympathetic response in the nervous system, right, because you're not accepting, it's like, oh, tension, what's there, I don't want to deal with that. And so that leads to more increased heart rate. So we're not at ease, right. But if we have acceptance, that calm, settled, that allowing sensation, right, just think of water flowing. Right, I'm thinking Qigong, we do this pushing water. Right, we push forward and back. So can you think of flowing with emotion, with ease, instead of the just pushing away? Right, yeah, like a hard push. I know I see that all the time with my clients. I'm sure lots of listeners feel that too.

Speaker 1 19:13

Absolutely. I'm so into. I don't know that much at all about Qigong, yeah, and I think it's I mean just the foundations of it scientifically makes sense to me. Working with energy and movement.

Speaker 2 19:28

Oh, for sure.

Speaker 1 19:31

Do you ever have, do you experience, pushback from clients on any of those modalities, thinking that they're not um, I don't know not to woo. Yeah.

Speaker 2 19:47

I didn't want to say that because I don't love that, but but yeah, most of my clients that come to me, they come to me cause I am holistic, so most are more open-minded and really wanting something different, so they're ready for something else. Some people too, I see, have more complex traumas, have multiple traumas, and they're at the place where they're ready to try anything, most everything and to do multi-layered treatment. And that's what I find too. To really find it's not just one thing right that leads to healing. It's usually many layers that you have to find what works for you, and what I do for one client may not work for you, so we may have to find some other things.

Speaker 2 20:32

You know what is therapeutic for you? Because some people I'm integrating art as well I might do some art with them in therapy, but they're doing art outside of therapy. I might give them some kind of prompt for something that's therapeutic because art is important to them, but if you don't like art, we're not going to do art. So we have to find what is therapeutic for you and make that an integration, and using the body too. So, as far as pushback, nobody yet has really given pushback with Qigong. People love it they really do. And as far as yoga, if they don't want to do it, they don't have to do it Period, and that's okay because it's always client choice. So if it's something they don't want to do, then we can just do something else, because I also do breath work, meditation, visualizations there's lots of things that we can do and brain spotting.

Speaker 1 21:26

I appreciate it. Yeah, it makes sense that because you are a holistic counselor, people will understand that that's.

Speaker 2 21:36

I make that clear.

Speaker 1 21:37

There might be some different approaches. Yeah, yeah, there might be some different approaches. And yeah, yeah, and that integration that you were talking about earlier, the integration of of mind and body, is essential. I mean, we cannot, we can't, heal without that. And there's such, historically, there's been such a separation between, uh, mind and body. Um, I mean, there never has.

Speaker 1 22:01

But the way that we have thought about it, right, it's been a shift, yeah, uh yes, and I am just so happy to see that and you, you offer this, this wide toolbox for um, not only for your, your clients, but for the, the therapist that you are working with, is so amazing, because I've I've had so many people say, you know, therapy just didn't work or, um, they didn't have a good experience. And it does make me sad because it's you do have to find the right fit, you have to find somebody. Oh, that too, yeah, you have to find somebody you really vibe with.

Speaker 2 22:46

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 22:47

And, like you said, the different modalities for different people. Yes, because everyone has different needs. Absolutely, and I really love, I love that, and I just thought you are teaching that and offering that for other providers as an option to build their toolkits.

Speaker 2 23:09

Yeah, yeah, and you know the counseling world is changing and I want listeners to know that too is there is more of a shift towards holistic modalities, which is a beautiful thing, which is why I created my podcast, the Holistic Counseling Podcast, because I wanted more providers to learn about these modalities so that they can get their training and learn how to offer these as well, because, you know, yoga is one thing that's been integrated more into sessions and meditation. Mindfulness I know most people have heard of that. That's become really popular. There's just so much more out there. Psychotherapeutic Reiki is something that's become more popular. It's just starting to get out there. I had a couple episodes on that. I'm trying to think what else in therapy? Um, using reiki in general, and what was the other thing? Um, sorry, my brain's like it's trying to wake up today. Um, so many things. We're on a podcast, I know right, my brain's like what sound healing?

Speaker 2 24:16

that was the other thing. I was like it's sound sound, using sound with clients. Do sound bath. Is that something you do? I don't, but other clients, other therapists do. Okay, I can only learn so much, jessica well, I don't think that.

Speaker 1 24:31

That too, uh, for providers is yeah, there are so many tools out there and they're that's so much great information and trying to just, you know, get this broad toolkit. I think it's important to have several, several things to offer, but, but we can only learn so much and trying to practice all of the things ends up being less useful.

Speaker 2 24:56

Sometimes, yeah, you do got a narrow dome and that's the only problem. Sometimes people said with my podcast is like, oh no, another training, there's so much, there's so much out there. So it is trying to identify, narrow down what are you most interested in, right, what is what speaks to you? And, if you know, if you start to take a training, you're just like it's not really because, you'll know, I knew with yoga and you know it's so funny.

Speaker 2 25:18

I remember my first yoga training. I went for behavioral health professionals, because it's not a typical yoga training, it was for counselors and I'm looking around and everybody's doing this and I was like this is my people, this is where I belong. It was like. It was just like a profound shift because I had been looking for that. I wanted to find something that was for us, not just a regular yoga teacher training. You know, I wanted something that was geared towards therapists. So, yeah, that's that's when I knew it was just like. This is just incredible to see how yoga can be so beneficial for clients to to have those Cause what I do, too, is I I teach clients how to use these skills so that they can do their own personal practice, so that's homework for them. So I'll say, okay, here's a short flow we'll do during session. So do you want to do one of these or do you want to do all of these for practice?

Speaker 2 26:10

And then they'll do that and kind of incorporating that. And you know we talk about how do you stay motivated, what are some ways to integrate this in your daily life? And so it's kind of building those skills, those coping skills, you know, building resiliency in the nervous system too.

Speaker 1 26:28

You're speaking my language? Yes, I know See.

Speaker 2 26:33

Yes, I talk prevention too. Prevention is doing these things, not just when you're stressed. Doing these on a regular basis, especially breath work too. I teach breath work and teach to do that, just not when you're stressed, but doing that when you're calm so you can build that inner resource, that resiliency, so that when you're stressed that you're able to do your breathing and you calm down quicker. But it's like building that window of tolerance, that you're opening up your window more so that you're less reactive to stress as well.

Speaker 1 27:04

Yeah, absolutely. And the home practice part, the routine for you, like you said, it has to feel good to you.

Speaker 2 27:15

If it doesn't, you're not going to do it and it's also not going to be that useful.

Speaker 1 27:20

Yeah, and if we're only doing that and I think again, I'm not talk therapy is so great, but when we're only, you know, having things to practice or having that outlet, having that, that time to regulate with, with our, our counselor, therapist, even if it's it's weekly or or you know, monthly or however often you see your person, you're not able to practice that outside of that time. True, you're not able to practice that outside of that time, true.

Speaker 2 27:57

And then not building that kind of sense of agency. Yeah, so yeah, because it is building the coping skills so that the goal is, once they're done with it, they still have these skills, right?

Speaker 1 28:06

And.

The Importance of Yoga and Interoception

Speaker 2 28:07

I had somebody I just released from therapy yesterday. She's like I'm good, I have the coping skills. She's just like you know, she has I mean multiple. I mean this person had PTSD so bad that she was just shaking like literally could not get herself regulated. And when what is it? It's April now. So I seen her since November. She's just, she's so, she's so stable. Now it's unreal. Sometimes I'm like, are you sure? It's like I questioned Goliath. I'm like, oh my God, it's just amazing how these things to get sometimes for these clients, how it all unfolds and how the healing just comes together. Because the thing is, the clients that practice regularly, they do better, obviously right, because they listen to me and they put these things into place. But those that don't follow the homework they're not going to do as well because they're not doing what they need to be doing. So the more they can integrate this into their daily life, the more it's going to be helpful.

Speaker 1 29:07

Yeah, you know, the first time I heard the term practice and related to having a practice or or was in a yoga class and I had no practices of of my own or understanding of what that was at that time and I just remember hearing that and thinking like what does that even mean? That sounds ridiculous. Um, I was very resistant and and now, having that understanding of, I mean just of how, like physiology works, you have to have that, that routine, and you have to have that practice for it to be useful, yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2 29:53

Well, to make those changes in your nervous system right.

Speaker 2 29:57

The more we do that the consistency is where the healing comes in, where the change comes in right and neurobiologically that's where it's at. And oh, the other thing I wanted to mention too, because you mentioned about therapists and self-care. You know, the best self-care that therapists can do is if they are teaching yoga to clients. Guess what? You get the dual benefit because you are doing it with them, you're doing the practice there, your clients are getting the relaxation, but guess what? So are you. So that's like a double bonus of self-care during the day.

Speaker 1 30:31

Yeah, absolutely. And then that co-regulation that comes along with it, yeah.

Speaker 2 30:37

But it is because, when you're teaching right, if you're doing it together too, it's like building that relationship too, because there's something about like doing movement with someone too, like mirroring each other.

Speaker 1 30:50

Yes, that brings up. Have you read Dr Kelly McGonigal's the Joy of Movement? No, I've heard of that, though I think she does a great job of just presenting in a really easy way to understand some of the neuroscientific benefits or the physiological benefits both of um of movement, and one thing she talks about is movement in groups and how that builds social connection and and relationship and trust, um, through moving with other people.

Speaker 1 31:27

Um, it's, yeah, that's a fantastic book. Um, I'm looking at the time and, um, I want to be mindful of everyone's time and um, I just want to know and I guess maybe I don't know if this would be two different pieces for for other counselors and therapists, or yeah, and or just for everyone if you had one, one takeaway, and I know that what's um kind of a summary of of of what you want people to know.

Speaker 2 32:07

Hmm, Well, and I think one thing that we didn't talk about was interoception. I think that's one of the key things that I teach. I teach clients. One thing that I like to do is psychoeducation for clients, letting them know what I'm teaching them. So when I teach them yoga, I'm teaching them what I've learned about yoga, which is interoceptive practices. So when we teach them something, let's say I'm inhaling, exhaling, arm up down where do you notice that? What do you notice in that arm? What sensations are there?

Speaker 2 32:41

So for helping them to integrate that, notice what they're feeling in their body, because a lot of clients they don't know what's happening in their bodies. They've kind of lost that connection, especially with trauma. So that interoception. So the more therapists can know that for themselves too, while they're in session, notice what's going on with me. Oh, hang on a second.

Speaker 2 33:02

Am I connecting too much with my client's energy? Is this their energy or my energy, asking that If it's not your energy, you have to in your mind just say not my energy, let it go, let it go. Energy is really important too as a therapist, because we can take on. Unfortunately, other people's energy can attach to us, so we have to disconnect from that. Our nervous systems are always connecting disconnecting with energy. So we do have to be cautious of that as well, but being very mindful of that.

Speaker 2 33:34

But the more and research shows that through all the yoga training that I'm doing with other therapists that research shows that the more we are connected to our bodies, with interoception, the more that can lead to emotional regulation, the more we are aware. So, as therapists, if you can do that for yourself and teach your clients this as well, so tuning in and stop your clients when they're talking, because a lot of times therapists just let them go Carl Rogers was great. He's how we all have learned, but I disagree with some of that because I will stop clients. I'll be like hold on a second. Can you stop for a moment and just notice in your body what is coming up for you right now, where?

Speaker 1 34:21

are you?

Speaker 2 34:21

feeling sensation. Just allow them just to sit in it for a moment. What is brewing? That's tuning in that interoception right, Because the body will speak and we have to listen. I think that's the key for both you as a therapist, but also helping your clients to slow down.

Speaker 1 34:36

Yeah.

Speaker 2 34:36

To slow down more, to listen, because we're not, and most people live from the neck up right in here. How can you shift into the body more? And part of that, too, with the yoga I teach is it's not quick yoga, it's slow. Slow, mindful movements is going to be the key for healing. Mic drop.

Speaker 1 34:57

Yes, yes, that's I am. I think that's a big time. We could keep going. I could talk to you all day, but I think that is a great place I feel like I'm on my soapbox, but no but no, I align so much with everything you're talking about and it's very similar to how I work with people and I just I appreciate and genuinely enjoy these conversations. Everyone loves confirmation bias, so I love hearing that you are working with the same things.

Speaker 1 35:32

But for sure, yeah, we are going to wrap this up. Thank you so much for for joining me and maybe we'll do this again in the future. For um, all of the folks we mentioned your um podcast, the holistic counselor holistic counseling podcast.

Speaker 1 35:52

Thank you. Podcast the holistic counselor holistic counseling podcast. Thank you, I will add that in the show notes. Um, if you, if you like this podcast, please go check out Chris's podcast. It's such a great resource, um, and then I have your social media links and your website that I will also add in the show notes here for people to connect with you. Very cool, awesome, all right, well for everybody listening. Thank you so much for being here. You know that I don't take your time for granted. You could choose to be anywhere else doing anything, and I'm grateful that you chose to be here. We will do this again until next time. Chris and I are out of here.