And They Were Roommates

2: How to Not Hate Everyone You Live With

• Quaple Network • Season 1 • Episode 2

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This episode we discuss living with other people, creating boundaries, and answer a listener question about jealousy! As a little peek behind the curtain, this and the next two episodes were actually recorded before our pilot so there is, unfortunately, no funny interlude in the middle of this one. However, it means we provided a full 56 minutes of (good?) advice!

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We answer at least one listener question every episode. You can email us at quaplenetwork@gmail.com with your questions about life, relationships, polyamory,  or even a specific weird situation you need help with. As patrons your questions get moved to the top of the stack. We are looking forward to answering your questions and doing our level best to give you good advice!

A big thank to molly ofgeography for the use her song Hanahaki (Bloom) for our music.

And remember, we believe in you!

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Iris:

Hello lovelies! I'm Iris.

Foxglove:

I'm Foxglove. I'm Sage.

Sunflower:

And I'm Sunflower!

Iris:

And this is And They Were Roommates, a podcast about modern love, life, and everything in between.

Foxglove: Disclaimer:

we are not experts at being adults; we've just lived through a lot. This week we will be talking about living in small spaces, how to not hate everyone you live with, and managing jealousy. All right, who wants to actually fuckin start talking?

Sage:

Small space apartment living.

Sunflower:

So we live in Brooklyn...

Sage:

Which means we have only about... 800 square feet to our names right now for four of us.

Foxglove:

For four adult humans?

Sage:

Yes.

Foxglove:

So it's cozy.

Sunflower:

Ityeah.

Sage:

You know how realtors always describe places that are only one room as cozy? Yeah, it's cozy.

Unknown:

No,

Iris:

Nowe have three rooms...

Foxglove:

In fairness, we have three rooms.

Sunflower:

Yeah.

Iris:

Well, we have three bedrooms, plus a living room, plus a kitchen, plus a bathroom. So a few more than one room.

Foxglove:

We're kind of living in the lap of luxury by Brooklyn standards.

Sage:

Honestly, having a washer, a dryer, and a dishwasher? I don't know how we did it.

Foxglove:

Yeah, I've known someone who paid more in rent for like space on a couch in Brooklyn than each of us does in rent.

Sage:

Also, just a quick shout-out to Sun for actually finding the place that we ended up living and immediately saying, 'we should message the agent for this place right away, so that we actually can have a chance at getting it because I don't think this is going to happen again.'

Sunflower:

Yeah, I'm kind of obsessed with just randomly searching on Zillow? It's just really fun. Especially cuz like, you can look inside of really rich people's houses, which I also really like.

Sage:

Guilty pastime.

Sunflower:

Yeah, right?

Sage:

But anyway, actually living in the eight hundred square feet of space that we have.

Sunflower:

Yeah, so over the past, likehowever long we've fucking lived herealmost two years now? Yep. Over the last two years, we've really figured out how to like, live in this amount of space with four people and not drive ourselves insane with just likestuff? And I will say the first thing that we did was throw a LOT away before we moved in here.

Foxglove:

Oh, yeah, straight up.

Sage:

We came from a place that washow big was it? It was a five bedroom house, with two kitchens, because it used to be a duplex, and we had filledwe'd still filled pretty much every room with all of our stuff, which meant that when we decided to move to Brooklyn, we had to either figure out where all of that stuff was going to go in a hurry, or get rid of it somehow.

Foxglove:

In fairness, I didn't personally throw that much away, but that's becauseumthe exact descriptor for my lifestyle per everyone else in this apartment is, quote, like I'm planning to go on the run to a non-extradition country at any moment.

Sage:

Yeah, that's accurate.

Iris:

You could fit all of your belongings in a duffel bag before we stepped in and made you buy real furniture.

Sage:

And you can't any more

Foxglove:

I own books, fuck you!

Sage:

and we're so proud of you.

Sunflower:

Yeah, but like, if you were running because you needed to run, youyou wouldn't necessarily bring every book that you have.

Foxglove:

I mean, that's a bold assumption about my personality you just made right there.

Sage:

Yeah, I was gonna say, that'sthat's a daring statement knowing you.

Sunflower:

We had a lot, a lot of tough conversations before we moved as well about how many books come with us. And the answer was all of them, I would like to throw that out there. Really, really good conversation. We had a lot of conversations, and then we were just like,'yeah, we'll, we'll bring all of them, see how it goes.'

Iris:

The U-Haul

Foxglove:

We should do a separate episode about how to move without killing anyone at some point,

Iris:

Yeah.

Foxglove:

because we also learned important lessons about how to pack books.

Sage:

Oh, Lord. Yeah.

Iris:

Yeah. The U-Haul was like half filled with books, half filled with furniture though.

Foxglove:

Yeah

Sunflower:

Yeah, at one point when my like, dad and brother were helping us like, pack up the U-Haul and everything, they were like, 'what is in here? How do you guys own this many heavy things?' And I was like, 'it's just books.'

Sage:

Just books, all books. Speaking of the U-Haul and Tetris-ing things into the U-Haul, one of the things that was really useful beforehand was mapping out how we were going to fit all of the stuff that we owned into the apartment.

Foxglove:

Yes.

Sage:

Because we got a floor plan with reasonably correct dimensions except in a couple of placeswhich, discovering that was interesting once we had already moved here. But, if anyone has heard of Google SketchUp, I can highly recommend it to create a model of your apartment and figure out how everything is going to fit in it because, when you really need to know if that king-sized bed is going to fit in your bedroom and clear all of the necessary walls, you can map it out and do a virtual walkaround and it is super convenient. Instead of you know, assembling it, realizing it doesn't fit, and then immediately downgrading to a smaller bed.

Sunflower:

More like downgrading to one dresser.

Foxglove:

I mean, yeah.

Sunflower:

I will never not have a king-sized bed.

Sage:

Yeah, never giving it up.

Foxglove:

I will say, if you don't have Google SketchUp, you can achieve the same thing with graph paper and a tape measure, it's just a little more time consuming.

Sage:

And SketchUp is free, for the record.

Foxglove:

Yes.

Sunflower:

Yeah. Also, this is not a paid promotion.

Sage:

No, it is not. We just really like it. Well, alright. I really like it, I guess is the more accurate statement here.

Sunflower:

It's really helpful to know like, what's gonna work and what's not gonna work, especially when you have likeit's weird when you move from like a actual full-size house, you don't realize how many like random tables you have that are just like tables to put things on?

Foxglove:

Mm. Mm-hmm.

Sage:

Yeah. Came with a lot of those.

Foxglove:

Although I will say, helpful for working from home.

Sunflower:

Yeah.

Sage:

Oh, very much so.

Sunflower:

Yeah, we haven't actually given tips for how to live in a small space though. No, not at all.

Foxglove:

Oh, no. We got distracted by the general chaos of our own lives.

Sage:

Well, speaking of king-sized beds, if you do have a lot of stuff in your apartment, one of the things that you can do, especially with larger bedsbut, really with any bedis get a bed frame which is lifted significantly off the floor. And then you can fit an entire bed's worth of stuff underneath it, which especially for bulky winter clothes, or cleaning supplies, or anything that you don't need to access on a regular basis, makes a very convenient storage space. Honestly, I would say thinking vertically is the best storage tip I can think of off the top of my head for living in a small space.

Iris:

Yeah.

Foxglove:

You don't have that much floor space, but especially if you live somewhere with even just reasonably high ceilingsour ceilings are ludicrously high, and that means that every once in a while we just have to come to terms with spiders and stuff. But if you live anywhere

Iris:

Never!

Foxglove:

Where the ceilings are reasonably high, storing things in a vertical direction is vastly superior.

Sage:

Vertical dressers. Shelves.

Foxglove:

Yep, the taller and skinnier something is, the more space you can get out of it.

Sage:

Embrace using bookshelves to store more than just books!

Sunflower:

Like liquor!

Sage:

Yes, like liquor.

Foxglove:

Everything I own is either on a bookshelf or under my bed because there's no space anywhere else.

Sage:

But like, can we talk for a moment about what our uh, by-the-kitchen bookshelf stores? Because it's really, it runs, uh

Foxglove:

You mean everything?

Sage:

the whole range of stuff, like liquor, yes, we have a shelf for that, but we also have a shelf for all of our collected tea stuff, we have a shelf for all of our Tupperware is which Sun is the only one who knows how to properly organize and store all of them and get them on the shelf. Thank you for your sacrifice.

Sunflower:

It's just by size. It's literally by size. Yeah, okay, then we have uh, office supplies and our recipe books, because you know, everyone has like, 900 recipe books from either their parents or have collected over the years.

Foxglove:

Yep.

Iris:

Mm-hmm.

Sunflower:

And then we have a mixed, we have a mixed media shelf with a bunch of books that we are trying to share with each other! Or are like, trying to force upon each other so that other people read our favorite books.

Foxglove:

Me sliding into every room like 'Hey, can I interest you in reading Monstress?'

Sunflower:

Yes. Yes, you can. We also have a First Aid shelf, which is also important to have.

Sage:

Yes.

Foxglove:

Yeah, it's all my First Aid junk, which ranges vary widely from 'things that are actually useful on the regular' to 'things I really needed one time and didn't have and then panicked about.'

Sage:

And now we have several boxes of those things.

Foxglove:

Yep, that's correct.

Iris:

Yeah, that's our most mixed-use bookshelf. A lot of the other ones are a little more specific or filled with books, but I also really encourage buying baskets or containers that you can put on bookshelves. If you're looking for a cheaper alternative than just buying a tall dresser, you can buy a cheap bookshelf and then you can put cheap containers or baskets on them. And it's a really good way to get a lot of vertical storage for not that expensive.

Sage:

Also especially if you have closets, if you have high shelves in those closets and want to be able to reach all the way up to the ceiling with your storage space, you can put a bunch of bunch of baskets in there and just stack them all the way up to the ceiling.

Foxglove:

I'm gonna go ahead and pitch like the neurodivergence angle on this as well.

Sage:

Mm hmm.

Foxglove:

I have ADHD, which means that the second something isn't immediately visible to me, it stops existing. Like I have tried my whole life to put things in drawers and like remember where they are, and it justit doesn't work. The second I can't actually see it, it ceases to exist. So I have a bunch of open bookshelves. I do have a dresser for my clothes, but everything in it that isn't clothing is visibly labeled on the outside of the dresser. Like, I have an entire drawer full of braces for my joints, and like, it has a label on the outside of it, because otherwise I would lose them all the time.

Iris:

Yeah, but what does the label say?

Sage:

Yes Fox, what does the label says?

Foxglove:

I don't feel obligated to admit that.

Sunflower:

You definitely have to.

Sage:

You are, sorry.

Sunflower:

You told us there's spiders in your closet.

Sage:

It's democracy rules, here.

Foxglove:

Um, yeah, it says'Actually fuck this' on it.

Sage:

Thank you. Beautiful.

Foxglove:

And it contains everything I own that starts with the letter 'B.' Because that's how I've decided to sort my life.

Iris:

It's perfect.

Sage:

So you're just deciding to sort your entire life alphabetically.

Foxglove:

Well, it contains braces, binders, bandanas, and bras. Which was a coincidence, but was so convenient that I've just decided it's my drawer full of things that start with the letter B.

Iris:

And is labeled with'Actually fuck this.'

Sage:

Amazing.

Foxglove:

That's correct.

Sunflower:

Which is so good.

Foxglove:

The rest of my sentence about having ADHD and storage is that sometimes you just have to give up on the idea of storing things in drawers or baskets. I just have a bunch of things in front of my books on my bookshelf, and that's just where they live, and I've just kind of come to terms with that, and I go through and I organize things whenever the clutter gets to me. But like, I had to kind of come to terms with the fact that I wasn't going to be able to sustain quote unquote,'organization,' the way that like, a book telling you how to organize a small apartment was expecting me to, like, I just couldn't handle it, I kept losing everything I own. And so like, coming to terms with that, and not crucifying myself for it, and being willing to just be like, yes, this is my bookshelf, it also contains all of my lotion, all of my fidget toys, like, you know, five different types of cords, three sets of headphones, and like a microphone, that really did take a lot of pressure off me and made it a lot easier for me to maintain a level of order that is feasible for me.

Sage:

Right.

Sunflower:

Yeah, definitely.

Sage:

One, one thing that I do want to add before we get off of this, though, is shelves for the kitchen on any wall that you can fit them on. Because having that extra layer of storage for pots and pans and lids and all of the bags of chips that y'all shove up there and fall whenever the washer runs a little bit too vigorously.

Sunflower:

Judge us.

Sage:

I am judging you. That's why I'm saying this.

Foxglove:

We are. We are judging you.

Iris:

Listen, I like a chip.

Sage:

But also, racks that you can hang additional pans on so you get two or three layers of storage. That's the only way that we fit all of the cooking supplies that we use in our kitchen. Otherwise, wethey'd just be in a pile on the floor somewhere.

Sunflower:

I think the other big thing for small spaces is it might sound really weird, when you don't actually like see it happening, but making sure that you designate space for specific activities.

Foxglove:

Yes.

Sage:

Definitely.

Sunflower:

In our case, especially, like, our living room has a rug, and everything that's attached or supposed to be in the living room is like at least touching the rug, or right on the outside of it.

Sage:

It has at least one leg on the rug.

Sunflower:

Yeah, so like, everything is kinda like fenced into like a square, well, a rectangle that is like living room space, and then outside of that we have like, our dining room table.

Foxglove:

And it makes it feel less like we live in a vast empty space. Like, it makes it much easier to limit like, clutter from just spreading through the public areas, it makes it a lot easier to like, feel like you're transitioning from one activity to another as you move through the apartment, which is super important, again, for me, a person who really struggles with like, task initiation. The fact that leaving the living room space and going to the kitchen space actually requires me to go from rug to hard floor does mean it's a lot easier for me to, say, start cooking a meal, rather than just thinking I'm still doing the same thing I was before.

Sunflower:

But we should talk about how we don't hate each

Foxglove:

Yeah, I think that's crucial to living in a small other yet. space.

Sage:

Come on, put some trust in all of us! Believe in us the way that we believe in our listeners!

Sunflower:

Wow, that was so cheesy.

Sage:

You love it.

Foxglove:

Oh my GodI am gonna leave that in. Alright, so the other key to living in a small space, especially if you're living with a lot of people, is to not absolutely despise everyone you live with.

Sage:

And how do we do that?

Foxglove:

We talk! Incessantly!

Sage:

It all goes back to communication, Episode 1!

Sunflower:

Yeah.

Iris:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

And if you haven't listened to Episode 1, you should turn around and go listen to Episode 1.

Iris:

Maybe finish this one first?

Sage:

Important context.

Sunflower:

I mean, I guess, but, you'll miss the whole communication bit.

Sage:

No, stop it

Sunflower:

Stop right here

Sage:

right this moment. Yep.

Foxglove:

Yeah, drop this episode, go do a different thing.

Sunflower:

Do not pass go do not collect $200.

Iris:

But maybe we can talk about some tips specifically for not just communicating with partners specifically, but communicating with people you live with, regardless of your

Sage:

Yeah.

Iris:

relationship to them, whether they're your parents, whether they're your roommates, temporarily, whether they're your partners, whatever it is.

Foxglove:

Oh, I want to offer a blanket piece of advice first. If at all possible, my absolute number 1 top tip for this is that two-ish people is probably the maximum number of people who should share a room, because every time I have lived with more than two people, I have been not speaking to at least 1 to 3 of them by the end of the six-month period.

Iris:

Specifically in one room.

Sunflower:

Yeah.

Sage:

That's valid as hell.

Iris:

You do live with three people now.

Foxglove:

Yes. Like, in college, for six months, I shared one room with three people, and so there were four of us, and none of us could get the fuck away from each other, and none of us were talking by the end of two years.

Iris:

Exactly.

Sunflower:

Yeah.

Iris:

Like, that's my absolute number one tip, I know, sometimes it's unavoidable, but like...

Sunflower:

I definitely think that if you can have your own room, try to. And if you can't, at least try to make sure that you take intentional time separately, even if that means like, one person is in the bedroom and one person is literally anywhere else for like, not just a little while, but for like several hours.

Iris:

Yeah.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Iris:

I think one of the things that is super interesting about like sharing a room is that some people share a room with their partners. But an option that a lot of people don't considersome people don't have the finances for it which is also very validbut, some people don't share a room well, because their needs are different. So for example, Fox and I don't actually share a room, even though we've been, you know, the anchor partner to each other for a long time.

Foxglove:

And we did share room for a long time in college, it bears mentioning.

Iris:

True.

Foxglove:

Iris and I lived together for two years in the same room, and then an additional year where we shared... I guess what you could generously call an apartment?

Iris:

Yeah, yeah, in college.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sage:

It had all of the qualifying characteristics.

Sunflower:

Yeah.

Iris:

Yeah, that's one of the big things is that, I feel like there's this huge stigma of like, if you're romantic partners with somebody, you should share a bed and share a room with them. But I'm here to tell you that it is not always the case. Welike Fox said, we did actually share a room for multiple years. And on top of the fact that we have both different mattress needs, so sleeping is easier when webecause we can't afford an expensive bed that has different settings.

Foxglove:

Yeah, fun side story, when we moved here, I didn't have a mattress because I've never successfully moved anywhere with both a mattress and a bed frame, I usually had one or the other. And so, in the two weeks that it took me to get a mattress, I slept in Iris's room every night, which is only relevant because by the end of it, when I woke up, there would be a horrible crunching noise as I put my shoulder back in joint every day.

Iris:

Yeah.

Sage:

Oh Lord.

Sunflower:

Horrific, really bad imagery.

Iris:

Yeah, so there's that. And then on top of it, I'm super light-sensitive, and Fox wakes up best when they have light that they can see in the room, so we just have really opposite sleep needs. I need a blackout curtain, they need sunlight. I need a soft mattress, they need a

Foxglove:

I sleep on a board.

Iris:

Yeah, you sleep on a rock. So I just want to like kind of destigmatize not sharing a room and a bed with your primary partner all the time, because it's entirely unnecessary if you have the finances and capability to sleep in separate rooms. And that's what works best. Do it. Go for it.

Sage:

Definitely.

Sunflower:

Yeah. Either way, regardless of what works for you guys best you should discuss it and figure out what works for you, and how to share your time and what you need, and if you guys can't agree on stuff or like the same situation works for you, then you canyou know. It just doesn't matter. Whatever works for you best and for your relationship, then you should just do that.

Foxglove:

And the ability to say out loud, like, 'I love you and I want to spend time with you, but right this second, I really need alone time'like, no matter how much of an extrovert you are, eventually you are going to need a little bit of space from the people you live with. And the ability to just say that and have faith that they're not going to be upset with you, and like, understand that that's something you've established as likea need and a function of the relationship, even if it is just 'Hey, we live in the same space because we both answered an ad on Craigslist,' like the ability to say, 'I need some space to myself, can I have the room for like, three hours from x time to y time'so important.

Sunflower:

Yeah, absolutely.

Sage:

And also just taking it back a step, obviously in some living situations it won't be possible for you to have a room with a door that closes for doing things that are not just sleeping. But being able to design your space that you live in with other people so that you have, say, a table in a common space that faces a wall where you don't have to interact with anyone out in a common space and can wear noise cancelling headphones or just somewhere you can be out of the way where you're able to not interact with anyone is super important. So that you can take time alone even if you don't have an isolated space to call yours.

Sunflower:

There's also likethere's some rules built in there too, like I paint sometimes and when I paint I paint my desk which is in our living room, but it is facing a wall and it is like, in a corner, and like, if I have both headphones in and I'm painting and everything, my partners know to likeI don't know, like text me first usually? To see like, if I want to do anything or if I want to switch, because like that's like my alone time and like my quiet time that I use for myself and to rejuvenate so like, if I have both headphones in and I'm focused on a task, like, sometimes texting your roommate and being like, 'Hey, I just wanted to check in like, do you want dinner' is like, better because it doesn't interrupt an activity as as much as like, tapping them on the shoulder and like talking to them for a couple minutes.

Foxglove:

Yeah, and I in particular, I'm, I think it's fair to say I'm the most introverted person in theof the four of us. Even if I've been doing a task by myself, I usually need like, at least an hour to myself every day. Otherwise, I get like, really overloaded and stressed out. And that generally leads to me just being really unpleasant for everyone involved, including myself. And so like, the knowledge that like, for example, if I leave the door to my room open, but I'm doing something alone by myself, like, people know that they can come in and like, ask me questions, but if it's closed, people knock first. And like that kind of unspoken rule of you know, you're not banned from interacting with someone while they're taking alone time. But like, you're acknowledging that they're being by themself on purpose in a situation where they could be around others. That's also, I think, an important aspect of it.

Sage:

I just want to add a quick sidebar to that, please, as a PSA to anyone living in a shared space, if a door is closed to a room, please knock and do not enter until you get a positive response from the person inside.

Foxglove:

100% of the time.

Sunflower:

Just just good rules to not be you know, a huge asshole.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sage:

Yup.

Iris:

Exactly.

Sunflower:

But yeah, thereyeah, we have a lot of this, these kind of things. We also I, we have dinner together every night because we're huge saps who like each other a lot, so, during, at some point our family dinner, there's usually a check in of being like, 'What do you all want to do tonight?' And that gives everybody an opportunity to be like, I think I could use some alone time for a while. Or like, 'Hey, I really don't want to be alone does somebody want to do like x thing with me?' Or like, do we want to watch TV all together?

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Iris:

Yeah, and always, offering alone time as an option, when you're giving a selection of options just really normalizes that whole, like, it's not a big deal to ask to have some time alone and it doesn't mean you don't like the people around you.

Sunflower:

Yeah. And a lot of times, too, we'll start doing alone time after dinner, and then like in two hours, or some odd if all of us end up wandering into the same area, we'll be like, would we like to reevaluate? What do we want to do something else do we want us to do something different. And then sometimes we also like, pair off kind of naturally throughout the night. So it's like, everyone can get as much alone time as they want, but when you are like, good, if you'd like hit your peak and everything, like you could leave a door open, and if people wander in, you're like, do you want to do something with me?

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

I don't know, flexibility.

Foxglove:

It bears mentioning wewe have similar needs and understanding levels of like, people's need for alone time balanced with like being part of a group. And I think this is a convenient segue into one of the other things we wanted to discuss here, which is, that's not always the case. Sometimes people just are not compatible for living together. Like, Iris was talking about how like, she and I love each other very much. And we didn't despise each other after two years of sharing a room and just having to split the difference on like, conflicting needs. But we're probably never going to be the type of romantic partnership where like, we share a bed and a room on a regular basis, because it's just really not suited for either of us. That's not a personal failing, and sometimes it is important to know, in any kind of relationship, whether it's a roommate relationship, or anything where you're sharing space, it's important to know when to call it quits. And like, when to acknowledge that you have just hit a threshold of like, this is not going to work for us to be like sharing space in this way. Like when Iris and I started like formally dating, I like literally walked into her room out of the blue and I was like, 'Hey, I like dating you a lot. I don't really want to move into your room.'

Iris:

And I was like 'That's fine.'

Foxglove:

And she was like 'No I like my blackout curtains you don't you don't have to bring your fucking sunlight in here, thank you.'

Iris:

I am a vampire.

Sage:

How dare you bringing the light of day into my room.

Iris:

Yeah, I'm a vampire, please don't do that to me.

Sunflower:

Yeah, I always think it's really important to likewe are four people in a couple but our two sets of anchor partners in this whole setup and everything are so unbelievably different with how we like

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

interact as romantic couples, because like, Sage and I have been dating for about four years now and like

Sage:

Woo!

Sunflower:

Yeah, and like, pretty much

Foxglove:

Y'all moved in with each other like

Sunflower:

right away. Like, it was about a week before we likeI spent pretty much my all my time at like, his apartment and like we shared a bed every night, and like that was something that I was like reallythat we really liked, and like we've worked on our conflicting needs a little bit and like, found a mattress in the middle ground, and like have now have blackout curtains and also a sun lamp. Whichhighly recommend.

Sage:

Very highly recommend.

Iris:

You can control the sun.

Sunflower:

We do love a programmable sun. But yeah, so we also have these like, pretty big like, it is really important to me to have a king-size bed for the two of us, because on one hand I like to have somebody there when I'm sleeping, but I don't like to be touched in my sleep. So like, a king-sized bed is perfect, because we can be like two feet away, but I know where to find him in the middle of the night.

Sage:

Most of the time, sometimes I escaped to weird positions and you flail around for a moment until you just whap me with your arm.

Foxglove:

Whatever works! I do think it's ironic because like, you guys share a bed every single night and you're both like 'No, don't touch me, I need like a three foot radius, I have to be able to do a snow angel without bumping into my partner.' And like, on the rare occasions that Iris and I do sleep in the same bed, we're like, physically on top of each other the entire time.

Iris:

Yeah.

Sage:

Right.

Foxglove:

We learned to share a bed in like, not just a twin bed, but like a college twin. So it was like, a little bit skinnier even than that. Don't get me wrong. I don't recommend sharing a college twin bed with anyone for an entire night.

Iris:

No.

Foxglove:

You'reyou're one of the loves of my life.

Iris:

Yes, I am.

Foxglove:

You're a beautiful human being.

Iris:

Mm-hmm.

Foxglove:

That was miserable.

Iris:

Yeah, it's not a good time.

Foxglove:

But like, it doesn't bother us to be in contact, it's just that specifically, if I slept in Iris's bed every night, you would be like picking bits of me up and reforming me like fucking Skeletor every day.

Sage:

Jesus Christ.

Iris:

Terrible.

Sage:

So I think the original subject we were on was know when to call it quits, right? So what are what are some

Foxglove:

crucial red flags?

Sage:

Yeah, crucial red flags.

Foxglove:

Because it bears mentioning, sometimes you're living with a bad person, and you should leave.

Sage:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

And you should go.

Sage:

And that's the thing like, you couldyou can try to communicate as much as possible, you can address your conflicting needs and try to find a middle ground. But like, at a certain point, there are some things that are going to be just completely incompatible. You might want something that the other person is not willing to give you, or the other person might want something that you are unwilling to give up.

Iris:

Or they're just a bad person.

Foxglove:

Yeah. Or they're just shitty.

Sage:

Or they're just a bad person.

Sunflower:

Yeah, cuz I mean, like, some people don't believe in like, cleaning out Tupperware after they use it or what have you, or like, leaving food in the fridge for way too long or

Foxglove:

Filed under 'Top reasons I hated the one of the people I lived with in the Quad.' Couldn't handle it. I just couldn't handle it.

Sunflower:

Yeah, so I thinkI think it's important to also talk about like, cleanliness levels and stuff. Like sometimes people are just not compatible because like, one person just is okay living in a dirtier place than the other people are, or like, more cluttered, or what have you. Like, sometimes you're just incompatible for that reason. But there's also like, there is some conversations to be had about like, 'Hey, it really gets me stressed out when like, literally every surface is covered with stuff. Do we think we could find some middle ground.'

Foxglove:

That was an issue, Sun and I like, struggled with a little bit, especially after we moved to the apartment where we were much more in each other's pockets. Because like, Sun's maximum level of acceptable clutter is slightly below the level of clutter that I will actually notice. I care if things are clean, but if there's just papers stacked on a table, I will just like, not notice because like, I have a wicked bad case of that visual noise blindness, basically, that like, tends to go with ADHD. And my mother also has ADHD. So like, I just didn't grow up in a house where clutter was a thing that anyone cared about. So like, we sat down after we moved here, and we were like, 'Okay, what is the like, maximum level of acceptable clutter on public spaces? We're going to establish a threshold, and then I'm going to put in the work to see it, and Sun's gonna put in the work to like, cut me some slack when I don't. And like, we're gonna find a happy medium.' And I think we've really done a good job at that.

Sunflower:

Yeah, I think we've alsoI've gotten a lot better at being like, 'Hey, my dude, would you uhthis slight pile of things that you have and put it on a surface in your room?'

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

Which works for us really well. I'm also just, I'm an organizer. So I'll just like, I make everybody piles about once a week in our like'This is your pile that belongs in your room, and this one's mine, and this one's Sage's and this one's Fox's and everyone can take their shit and go!'

Sage:

To take it back to red flags for a second though. This has been a very heartwarming story about how you all have learned to work together on cleanliness, but, uha red flag, say you have a conversation exactly like this. You establish your boundaries, and then someone consistently ignores them. That is a red flag.

Iris:

Yeah.

Foxglove:

Very much so.

Iris:

That's like one of the biggest red flags is not respecting boundaries.

Foxglove:

Yeah. Or like, I would consider also being excessively punitive about something someone's admitted to struggling with.

Sunflower:

Yeah. Yeah, I thinkIris, do you want to give some just like, definitions and how-to with boundaries? I think you're the best at explaining them.

Foxglove:

Oh, yeah.

Iris:

Yeah, sure. Okay. Yeah. So boundariesokay. I really contextualize boundaries different than a lot of people because I consider boundaries to be a gift you're giving to the other person. If you're in a good relationship where boundaries are something that's normalized, you setting down a boundary is telling somebody how to take care of you and somebody else respecting that boundary is them literally doing that care. So when you're setting down a boundary, I think that it's really important to come at it from an angle of like, 'This is what I need, like, explicitly. And this is why I need it, and it's okay that you didn't know that this was a boundary before because we haven't run into this before, so I'm not like guilting you or blaming you or going to bludgeon you over the head with it, but in the future, I need you to do better in this way for me.' And the other person then could go, 'Okay, I'm super sorry that I crossed that boundary that I didn't know existed, I'm definitely going to work to do better in the future.' And it's not about 100% accuracy all the time. It's about actively putting in the effort every single day to respect the boundaries of the people around you.

Sage:

That's a really beautiful way of phrasing that.

Sunflower:

Yeah, I knewyeah.

Sage:

Thank you for that.

Sunflower:

I also think like, when one person brings up yourtheir boundaries, too, and you, you come to a conclusion of how to best deal with those and everything like, please also let them know that you also have boundaries.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Iris:

100%.

Sunflower:

Like, that's a really great moment that that person like, probably came over some anxiety and some confrontation anxiety and came out a place of like, really caring for you too, and wanting your relationship to work. So like, please use that opportunity to also tell them what you need.

Iris:

Yeah.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

So then everyone's on the same page.

Foxglove:

It really is... any conversation about boundaries should be a dialogue first and foremost.

Iris:

Yeah, it's a give and a take and a back and forth. And, a lot of that sort of stuff, too, like, alone time specifically doesn't have to be like a linearlike, some people do need like, 'Okay, I need to set a timer in three hours, no interruptions.' But like other times, like, it'll be like,'Okay, Fox needs three hours alone, but about once an hour, I'm gonna go in, and I'm just gonna, like, give them a kiss on the cheek and tell them I love them, and then I'm gonna fuck off again.' And so like, it could be something like that. Or it could be like, 'Sometimes I need complete alone time, but sometimes we can be doing different things in the same room quietly.' And we know that like, we're mostly not going to be talking, it's just like, sharing space with the other person. So there's like a lot of variation, and it's creating boundaries, and navigating these relationships is all about, like, exploring those boundaries, and being willing to just try stuff until something works.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Iris:

And talking about it continuously. Because we're all about that communication.

Sage:

Speaking of talking about things continuously, I think another big red flag is not just ignoring boundaries, but not communicating period.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sage:

Because like, not everyone is going to talk to each other as much as we all do. We all have known each other for a long time, we're very comfortable with one another. This is alike a foundational element of our relationship. If you're just roommates with someone, you might not have or even want to have that kind of relationship with them. But it's still really important to at least talk about the stuff that you share in the space that you inhabit together. And if you refuse to do that, or if they refuse to do that, that is a problem.

Iris:

100%

Foxglove:

As like a very concrete example, Iris and I had a roommate at one point who was a perfectly nice dude, and we got along with him great when he wasn't our roommate, but as a roommate, motherfucker never did a dish in the six months we lived together.a

Iris:

Tried to kill Sage.

Sunflower:

So Sage just did a spit-take...

Sage:

I should have chosen a moment to drink water.

Foxglove:

I'm going to murder my boyfriend.

Sage:

You did thisyou already did this once you yestjust last night.

Foxglove:

Yeah. Uh, both times by accident. Um, but like, this was a perfectly nice guy. We got along fine. We weren't like, bosom buddies, and we were never intending to be like lifelong besties

Sunflower:

You weren't what?

Foxglove:

Bosom friends is a saying, and I'm gonna need you to just trust me on this one because I'm not gonna Google it right now.

Sunflower:

...bosom buddies!?

Foxglove:

Yes!

Sunflower:

All right. Okay.

Unknown:

It's, it's a thing. It's a thing, I promise.

Foxglove:

Umthis guy, we weren't we weren't looking to be best friends. It wasn't probably going to be that long a relationship. But like, it was such a sticking point that he never did the dishes no matter how often he was prompted or asked to do the dishes. I don't mind doing dishes. I do a lot of dishes in our apartment. Because like, I don't like certain other things to do with cleaning up food. And so like, that's, that's a way I can contribute, and it's not a problem. But it was constant. It was incessant. And it was just finally the thing that broke us on living together. It was just, it was something we couldn't overcome as like, an apartment. So like, if someone is just that determined to not like, pull weight and not listen to the conversation you're having, it's probably an indicator that you're not well suited to whatever relationship dynamic you're trying to engineer there.

Sage:

Yep, there it is.

Sunflower:

Yeah, and like, some people you just won't get along with like that.

Iris:

Yeah.

Foxglove:

It justIt happens.

Sunflower:

Yeah. It's not a personal failing, it happens.

Iris:

Yeah, and like we said, there's alsothere's different levels to this, right? There's like living with somebody who you're super close to and like, want to live with long term, there are temporary living situations that can work, there are temporary living situations where you're really just incompatible even though you're both genuinely fine people separate from living together. And then there are like, people who are abusive, or who are bad people to be around and toxic to be around. And we're trying to, as best as possible, cover all the different scenarios you could possibly end in.

Foxglove:

Yeah, refusing to listen to your boundaries might be something as low key as like,'Hey, we're roommates, and it's not gonna fly because like, I refuse to do your dishes until I die.' Or it might be something as intense as like, 'Hey, this is like a romantic partner who's really not listening to what I need when I need it, and like, won't respect the lines I lay down.' And like, both of those are red flags, it's just a matter of degree.

Iris:

Exactly.

Sunflower:

I also, I also want to bring up there's one red flag that I think that people don't talk about a lot. And that's like having people over. Yeah, like, if you have a roommate who refuses to tell you if there are people coming over, or lik insist that certain people ar coming over regardless of if you like them or want them in your space, or whenyou know, some people are terrible, and also let their guests and stuff into your personal space and to touch your personal things. And that is a huge red flag. Like hat's just an absolute disre pect for like, you, your spa e in your home.

Iris:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

And it's okay to be upset about that, and it's okay if that's like, that's the straw that broke the camel's back.

Foxglove:

Very much so.

Sage:

Absolutely.

Sunflower:

Yeah, I had a friend whosewho ended up crashing in my dorm room for several months in college because their roommate, who they were unable to get switched from, would literally bring people over like, in the middle of the night while they were trying to sleep. It would be like, midnight, 1AM, a nd they would have people coming in and out of the room, and it was just a super toxic bad situation to be living in. And that's just super disrespectful to the person that is trying to just like, live their lives in this casual roommate dynamic. Yeah, that's absurd.

Foxglove:

Yeah, I think that's a really good point.

Sage:

Definitely a red flag

Sunflower:

I had an ex-boyfriend who would bring people around to like, do drugs in our house, which was just terrible, and also, I never really wanted to be part of it.

Sage:

Yeah, that was a whole time.

Sunflower:

Yeah. So like, it was constantly like, illicit substances, and also like, a lot of times they were underage people, which is an incredibly uncomfortable place to be in, and I was barely an adult at that point. So just like, constantly putting me in a dangerous like, position with like, legal boundaries, but also like, you never really know how people are gonna be like on drugs, and it was just not a safe place to be

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

in my own house. So like, yeah, and some people just suck.

Foxglove:

Yeah, it'ssomeone respecting your boundaries should also look like them protecting your boundaries if someone they've brought into your space attempts to violate them.

Iris:

Exactly.

Sunflower:

Definitely.

Foxglove:

Basically.

Sage:

That's a really good way to sum it up.

Sunflower:

Yeah, your roommate's guests are your roommate's fuckin' problem.

Foxglove:

Mm-hmm.

Sage:

I want to circle back, actually, to something that Fox said a couple steps ago about doing a lot of dishes and cleaning because there's some other things they don't like to do. Which brings us to the next point that I think we wanted to make, which is dividing tasks in the house or the apartment between things that you're comfortable with doing and things that might gross you out. For instance, I'm less about doing certain kinds of bathroom cleaning, just because of some things that I had to do while I was a kid. And luckily, Iris

Iris:

I don't mind!

Sage:

that's just yeah, it's something that you are happy to do, and arewe're really friggin' grateful for it.

Iris:

Yeah, and on the other hand, like, I'm the type of person who like is totally fine, like, obsessively meticulously cleaning a bathroom. But for whatever reason, I hate emptying a drain, it just grosses me out all the like, food, detritus in a drain, I hate doing that. So that's like, such a small, different thing. But like, I'll even do dishes if I could walk up to a partner and be like,'Hey, empty the drain for me, though? Please?' So like, it's so dumb sometimes. But like, it's okay to have preferences for the work that you do. I won't like, outright refuse to empty a drain just because I don't like it, of course, if it really needs to get done, I'll do it. But it's one of those things where you're allowed to have preferences, and you're allowed to work with the people around you to craft how to get all the household stuff done in as productive and happy a way for everybody as possible. Everybody pulls weight in different ways, and it doesn't have to look like a one-to-one-to-one like, 'Oh, we rotate all of the chores and all the chores have to get done by every single person all the time.' It can be a give and a take.

Sage:

Yeah, I was gonna say, one of the ways that a lot ofa lot of times you see work being divided equally like Iris said, where it goes in a rotation and everyone does the same tasks just one at a time, week after week. And we've found this arrangement where all of us do the things that we actually like, or at least don't hate doing when we do clean the apartment. And it's justit's been such a healthy way, I think, for all of us to take on those tasks, and means that we're generallyI mean, depending on the week, I guessnot averse to just like, all settling in and just powering through all the cleaning that we have, because we all know, 'Okay, this is my task, and I like or don't hate doing it, and this day of the weekend, we're just gonna knock that out, and then it'll be done.'

Foxglove:

Yeah. And it's alsoI think it bears mentioning there are also some times where like, someone lays down a hard line about like, this is a chore I really can't handle. I have some like, contamination phobias with food. As such, I don't clean out the fridge. It's just not a chore I'm really capable of doing, it really messes with my ability to eat any food that has even started to slightly go bad, I usually have to get someone else to handle it. And like, it is okay to have hard limits. However, it's important to communicate those clearly, and make sure that you're having a conversation about ways to contribute that aren't that, so that no one feels like either their like, hard limits are being ignored, or that someone is using those hard limits to take advantage.

Iris:

Exactly.

Sage:

Right.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Iris:

So I think it's time to switch over to answering an audience question, we'll answer at least one audience question an episode, so please start sending your questions in. You can send us questions via email at quaplenetwork@gmail.com. That's quaplenetwork@gmail.com, or through any of our social medias. We're on Tumblr at quaple-network.tumblr.com, and on Twitter at the ATWR_Podcast. Our question this week is from an anonymous user on Tumblr. They had two questions, so we'll answer the other half next week. The question for this week is, how do you manage jealousy? That's a question that polyamorous people definitely get a lot.

Sunflower:

Yeah.

Foxglove:

And I think that to that subject, we are a closed unit. And so that is athat's a question that would be handled differently by every different type of polyamory. If we dated outside of the group, I'm sure we would have a different answer. We don't. And so like that this is an answer that's going to be kind of customized to us and our experience. And I think it's worth

Iris:

Noting at the top.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Iris:

And as, yeah, and as we go on too we'd like to bring other polyamorous people in, potentially to help give you all some different perspectives. But we're going to talk to the best of our ability from our experience and from the experience of like, other polyamorous people we know.

Sunflower:

Yeah, so like, our big our big concepts with jealousy and everything will be within ourselves, within our little four-group we have here. So, yeahandyeah, so I think it's important to name here that a lot of people have different reactions to being jealous or how much they feel the actual feeling of jealousy. And so we have a pretty big range of that in our small group. Fox and I are

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

pretty damn territorial and jealous people.

Foxglove:

Pretty darn.

Sunflower:

Yeah. It's just a level of like, possessiveness that we have as people, which we've always been this way. But Sage and Iris are much different with how they feel jealousy and how much they feel it. And I think that's also really important to say.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Iris:

Yeah.

Foxglove:

Especially because Iris has been in an open relationship before.

Iris:

Yeah.

Foxglove:

And that didn't really bother you.

Iris:

No, yeah. So that's, that's something I can speak to briefly at the top because I think I'm mostly gonna toss this question to you two! But yeah, I experience jealousy in a very unique way. Because as long as I am in an actually healthy open

Foxglove:

I think you should probably chuck a definition for or polyamorous relationship, and I am, you know, in the know about everything that's going on, if my partner is checking in with meI don't really experience that like, stereotypical feeling of jealousy. Or if I do, it's really outweighed by compersion, which is something that we can talk about down the road as well. that in here right now though.

Iris:

I was gonnaI was going to, yeah. But okay, so, all right. So compersion. Compersion can be defined by a feeling of joy when a loved one invests in and takes pleasure from another romantic or sexual relationship. So it's, it's frequently thought of as the opposite of jealousy, because it'sinstead of getting envious or territorial about your partner, it's the experience of like, when I see, you know, two of my partners cuddling, or when I hear about a really amazing date that one of my partners went on, I feel joy and happiness from watching my partners be happy together. And that's something that really matters a lot to me, and that's why I'm really drawn to polyamorous relationships, because I really enjoy knowing that my partner's needs are being taken care of not just by me, but by the other people who love them. So, yeah, I had a open relationship, like I had a relationship unlike this one that is closed, I had like a proper open relationship where the other person and I both slept around outside of that. And as long as I knew who my partner was sleeping with, and that we were continuously checking in, I didn't really experience any of the typical feelings of jealousy. That's just not how I'm programmed as a person. So I'm going to toss this one over to you and you, Fox and Sun, because I think you guys are the best to be able to speak to this.

Foxglove:

Yeah, I think we're the least suited inlike, we're the least suited innately to open relationships periodand I would say polyamory more generally, despite the fact that we're functioning perfectly fine as a groupbecause we do both tend to get, not just territorial, but for me personally, like, if I'm getting jealous, I get kind of cold and a little bit nasty. And I don't particularly care for that in myself, but I am aware of it, and it's something I work hard on. And I know for me, it comes very much from like, a place of feeling insecure, you knowI have, I have anxiety issues. Um, and so like, no matter how often I'm like, assured that someone cares about me, it's still really easy for me to get into that headspace.

Sunflower:

Yeah, um, I agree with all of those things. And also, like, Iyeah, I probably would have never like, if it wasn't these three people in my life, I probably wouldn't be a polyamorous person, I don't think I'm necessarily like

Foxglove:

Likewise.

Sunflower:

suited for that lifestyle. But because of the relationships I had with specifically this group, it's made it really possible because like, I do love them all so much, and also the way that they handle me and my boundaries and my needs on aike a constant basis, of like, really checking in and making sure that I have everything I need, and that I feel comfortable with the steps that we're taking in our relationship. And a big part of our jealousy for me has been able to be like, we move and take steps in our relationrelationship based on how we all feel collectively after conversations. So it was like when we took

Foxglove:

We're exhaustively precise.

Sunflower:

when we took steps to like, be more cuddly and affectionate and like openly loving and intimate in that way, we had a long conversation about like, what that means and how we feel about it. And like, making sure that everyone is like, on the same page or like, is getting cuddles as well, and making sure that like, if anybody wants to beI mean, for us, it's really like if everyone wants to be on the couch cuddling together, like everyone has that opportunity all the time.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sage:

Unsurprisingly, it all comes back to communication.

Foxglove:

Itvery much.

Sunflower:

Shockingly.

Iris:

As all things do.

Foxglove:

Yeah. And I think it bears mentioning one of the other things that Sun and I in particular occasionally struggle with is like, because the four of us tend to be such an insular group, not just like in the romantic sense, but also in the sense that, like, we justwe don't have a lot of friends outside the group. And we likeat first it was because we were in a really rural area, and then the pandemic happened not that long after we moved to a city, and so like, you know, we're really used to the four of us having undivided attention from the other people in the group all the time. And so we occasionally have to, like, take a step back and be an adult and like, handle the fact that like, we sometimes get jealous about people spending times with their friends and things. And it's important to be able to acknowledge where that's coming from and like, discuss it in a way that is productive. And for the record, we've fucked that up in the past. And like, it'sit sucks to acknowledge that you fucked up on it, especially because it's easy to hurt the person you care about in that equation by making that mistake, but being able to sit down and be like, 'Okay, I fucked up in this way, here is like, the emotional state that led me to that mistake, and here's what I think causes that emotional state. Like, what can we do to make this work?' Because it's unfair to be like, you can't have friends outside of the group because I'm used to having your attention all the time. Like, that's a bullshit thing to say to someone.

Sunflower:

Yeah. So that's a lot ofa lot of self work and stuff and Iyeah.

Foxglove:

Yeah.

Sunflower:

I definitely think naming that like, we have fucked up in the past is super super good. Super good on on us for being like, 'Hey, we're shit. Let's work on it.'

Iris:

Everyone's human.

Foxglove:

Yeah, no one's good at everything right off the bat.

Sunflower:

Yeah, exactly. So like

Foxglove:

And also like, no one's taught to deal with jealousy, I think is the other thing. Like, you never get taught to deal with jealousy because it's always just like'Oh, well, if you're a jealous person, that's an innate flaw.' Like, being jealous is a state of being that is innately negative. Jealousy is just an emotion. The positive or negative is in how you react to it. But because so much of the world views jealousy as like something toxic, like a, an indication that you want to control your partner, and that like, you, you, you feel like you have the prerogative to control your partner. It means that no one ever really gets sat down and told like, 'Okay, jealousy is a feeling and if you're experiencing it, you should go tell your partner that.'

Sunflower:

Yeah. And like, here's how you talk about it, and here's how you mitigate it, and here's how you work on it. And I think a big thing in Sage and I's relationship in particular is, Sage checks in a lot about like, 'Hey, am I spending like, enough time with you? Do you feel like you get enough time like, one on one? Are you like, comfortable with how much I leave you alone and like' which is especially hard, and I will name this, for me, because I'm not a very like, cuddly or affectionate person, I find it takes like a lot ofa lot of my emotional spoons to be a cuddly and affectionate person, which honestly makes polyamory work better for who I am as a person, because I feel like I... on one hand, don't have to be like cuddly or next to, like, Sage or any of them at all times, but they're still like, getting that from the other partners. So like, there is benefits too to like having other people who are maybe more primed to give your partner what they need at any particular time.

Foxglove:

Yeah, and likewise, I tend to be someone who needs a lot of alone time. And so the knowledge that like, there are other people there to provide like, company and like, you know, someone to do an activity with or like, someone to be around. That option is still there, even if I'm like, 'I've had a really shitty four days, and I really need to be like left alone for a whole day to process it.' And like, having that knowledge and talking about that, like upfront and honestly as a group, does a lot to mitigate jealousy within the group for me personally.

Iris:

Yeah. And I also want to name just that jealousy isn't inherent or exclusive to polyamorous relationships, there can be plenty of jealousy in a monogamous romantic relationship, there can be jealousy just among friends. So jealousy is an experience that is very human and is an emotion and you just have to learn how to identify it in yourself, and how best to communicate about what you need, and also understand what the other person needs too. Because it, like with most things, it's a give and a take of, 'How do we make sure that like, you're still able to have relationships with the people that you want to have, like friendships with, or relationships with, without it getting in the way of our relationship?' And it's, it's that balance.

Foxglove:

Yeah, I would say generally, with the caveat of, if you are using your jealousy as an excuse to control your partner, you're a shitty person. And you should go to therapy about that. However, barring that, I would say that what this really boils down to is, if you're experiencing a lot of jealousy in any relationship, but especially a romantic relationship, umif you're experiencing a lot of jealousy, that doesn't mean you're a bad person, it means that you probably have some need that isn't being met. And talking with your partner will help a lot to mitigate that feeling, and help meet whatever that need is.

Iris:

Yeah, for me, the TL;DR is that you have to work with the people around you to understand the emotions of jealousy and how people are feeling. But I also want to just name, because this is a problem a lot of people deal with specifically when there's like, a polyamorous person and a monogamous person who are trying to have a relationship. And I also just want to name that sometimes people's needs can be so incompatible that they might not be able to make a relationship work. And that doesn't mean that either person's jealousy, or feelings, or natural states of being is any better or worse than the other. It's just that some people are designed for certain types of relationships, and you can both be good people without your relationship types being compatible. But, some people are able to work through that. There are people who are like monogamish, who, you know, are in a relationship with a polyamorous person who goes out and has other relationships, but then themselves only have a relationship with that poly person. And they can make that work. So it's, it's all just about you, your needs, and your partner's needs, and navigating that.

Sunflower:

And making sure everybody is happy and okay with the situation.

Iris:

Yeah.

Foxglove:

Yeah. And also, as a key point, being honest with yourself about what your like, limits are in that kind of relationship, because for example, I would really struggle with like, that arrangement, being one partner of a poly person. And also like, straight up, I don't often have a lot of energy to socialize, I wouldn't be able to sustain an open relationship because I wouldn't have the energy to go out and see other partners.

Sunflower:

Yeah.

Foxglove:

And so like, being honest with yourself about your limits also helps a lot to construct situations where you're not as likely to run into that problem of being like, 'Our needs for, like, what we want out of a relationship are so diametrically opposed.'

Sunflower:

Yeah.

Iris:

Yeah.

Foxglove:

And like, that just depends a lot on talking to people, which I'm sensing is gonna become a theme.

Iris:

I think we should just get a sticker that just has like,'Communication!'

Sunflower:

Yeah.

Sage:

Yep.

Sunflower:

Honestly

Sage:

Little rainbow with'Communication!' over it.

Sunflower:

Do you want to just rename the podcast to 'You should talk about it?'

Foxglove:

Yeah, discuss your fucking problems, maybe.

Sage:

That's four letters!

Iris:

All right. So do you want me to hit you with the outro?

Foxglove:

Yeah, let's do that outro.

Iris:

Okay! That's us, y'all, the Quaple. A big thank you to Molly ofgeography for the use of her song 'Hanahaki (Bloom)' for our music, check out our Patreon at the ATWR Podcast and help us pay Foxglove, our amazing editor. You can find us on Tumblr at quaple-network, and at the atwr_podcast on Twitter. You can also email us at quaplenetwork@gmail.com. We love hearing your questions, and if you love our podcast, please share with your friends and leave a comment wherever you're listening. And remember, we believe in you! Bye!

Quaple Network:

Bye!