Catechism and Liturgy in a Charismatic Context: an interview with Josh Lewis (The Remnant Radio) Part 2

What would it look like to incorporate confession, liturgy and creeds into a modern Charismatic church? Josh Lewis from The Remnant Radio has undertaken the challenge. 8 years after launching a successful podcast where he and his team interview theologians of all shapes and sizes, Josh has ventured into church planting while incorporating historical practices in a modern context.  What is the story that brought him to that point? Join Joshua Hoffert and Murray Dueck as they dive in with Josh Lewis!

For more about Joshua Lewis, the church in Ada, and The Remnant Radio, visit: https://kingsfellowshipchurch.com/

For more about Murray Dueck, visit: https://www.samuelsmantle.com/

For more about Joshua Hoffert, visit: https://www.windministries.ca/

Transcript

00;00;15;16 - 00;00;31;00
Josh Lewis
Like in the day where we've gotten rid of catechism, we've become theologically shallow. So it's like, what's the what's what's the answer? What's invent this new things or crazy thoughts? Let's get back to the catechism. Like let's get let's categorize like like like what we used to not be this.

00;00;31;03 - 00;00;32;23
Murray Dueck
Now is this.

00;00;32;25 - 00;00;33;28
Josh Lewis
And let's invent.

00;00;33;28 - 00;00;36;20
Murray Dueck
Something new or we're ready to go.

00;00;36;20 - 00;00;58;26
Josh Lewis
Back. You know, like we have people in our churches that are super self righteous. Why are they so self righteous? I don't know, maybe because they don't confess their sin every Sunday, right? Like.

00;00;58;29 - 00;01;19;03
Joshua Hoffert
You. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of voices from the desert. This is part two of an interview with Joshua Lewis from The Remnant Radio. If you want to listen to part one, just go back to the previous episode. In this episode, Josh covers things like the new church plant, how they're incorporating the liturgy and some of the creeds into what they do.

00;01;19;05 - 00;01;30;20
Joshua Hoffert
Public confession, the prayer of confession, catechism, and all these things. So for now, why don't you tune in to the podcast?

00;01;30;23 - 00;01;57;17
Josh Lewis
Yeah. The session of Christ is a doctrine that the charismatic movement needs to pick up again. Oh, yeah. Because the idea of his essentially sitting on the throne, he is a prophet, priest and king. And the book of acts starts. These are the things that Jesus began to do and teach, which means the book of acts and the things he's continuing to do in teaching, which means so acts as a book where his kingly ministry is administered through the preaching and proclamation of faith and repentance.

00;01;57;17 - 00;02;19;25
Josh Lewis
The kingdom is here. It's now pushing back demonic powers that's displaying his kingly ministry, his his priestly ministry of making unclean things clean. We heal the sick. We we call people to repentance. We restore their soul. We renew them. We were reintroduce them back to Jesus ministry of reconciliation. We are. We're participating in the priestly ministry and the prophetic ministry has poured out His Spirit on all flesh.

00;02;19;25 - 00;02;49;17
Josh Lewis
Like the the the ministry of Jesus has not stopped. It is continued through the body of Christ. Now the the that is an organic spirit empowered. you can have trust in Jesus no matter where you're at, no matter what level of development you have in your Christian journey, you can be on the backside of, you know, some third world country in Papua New Guinea and trust that Jesus has power for you to carry on his ministry because it's for his glory.

00;02;49;21 - 00;03;03;25
Josh Lewis
If you go down there and you're like, oh, you know, I just I don't have a prophetic gifting, you know, like, don't, don't, don't be like, I'm not a prophet, I can't prophesy. I'd be like, these people knew the contents and the secrets of their heart exposed, so they fall in their face and worship God. Jesus, would you provide power?

00;03;04;00 - 00;03;26;05
Josh Lewis
That that's the kind of mindset because you're seated in him and He is still a prophet, priest and king, right? Like, I don't know if he'll use me to heal. Well, he's still healing and you're in him like we the way that we're thinking about these things is so, it's like a personality test. We trying to figure out who we are, and we're trying to figure out what our gifts of the spirit are because we want to figure out who we are.

00;03;26;07 - 00;03;35;25
Josh Lewis
And you've done it so backwards. Figure out who Jesus is and then know that you're seated in him like, that's it. it's way less complicated than I think we're trying to make it.

00;03;35;27 - 00;03;36;06
Joshua Hoffert
That is.

00;03;36;13 - 00;03;42;09
Josh Lewis
Anyway, sorry. I will just. No, that's great. I talk about spiritual gas all the time, so that's like, a hobby horse. I'm sorry, guys.

00;03;42;11 - 00;03;47;05
Joshua Hoffert
Don't apologize. That's. You're doing. You're it's like you're you've gotten to Canadian.

00;03;47;09 - 00;03;52;02
Murray Dueck
I was going to say he's like a Canadian. We should adopt him. Just apologize all the time.

00;03;52;05 - 00;03;57;07
Josh Lewis
Why is it all Canada? Just like small towns as far as the eye can see, I might I might fit in real well there.

00;03;57;09 - 00;03;58;26
Murray Dueck
Yeah, that's like a lot of that.

00;03;58;27 - 00;04;09;14
Joshua Hoffert
Is it's not just small towns. Canada as a nation is one big small town. So I believe that. Yes. hey, do you know Steve down by Quickie Micro?

00;04;09;16 - 00;04;15;18
Josh Lewis
I'll tell you what. When someone says I'm from Canada, I always have a friend that says, well, do you know so-and-so?

00;04;15;19 - 00;04;23;12
Murray Dueck
I'm like Canada is huge. Like, what are you talking about? Like, did they know your cousin Luther from I.

00;04;23;14 - 00;04;30;00
Joshua Hoffert
I think almost every Canadian citizen, you know, that game, seven degrees of Kevin Bacon, I think they call it.

00;04;30;00 - 00;04;31;24
Josh Lewis
Yeah, seven degrees of separation or whatever.

00;04;31;27 - 00;04;54;22
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. Well, you can find any movie. Any movie star has starred in a movie that Kevin Bacon's been in or something like that, you know? Right. It's, Are you, you're you're only a few degrees separated from a movie. Kevin Bacon has been in nice. And, that's pretty much Canada. So if you start going down the line of Canadians, you know, and ask Murray, you're going to find some.

00;04;54;22 - 00;05;11;21
Joshua Hoffert
Eventually they're gonna find something eventually. It's true. I, I'm an American living in Canada, and I can tell. Oh, yeah, you know, this person. It's it's it's odd how that happens here. Yeah. So anyway that I side start I this there. Murray, I think you were going to say something.

00;05;11;24 - 00;05;31;27
Murray Dueck
Well, first I'll just say you guys have to watch the movie Canadian Bacon that came out with that John Candy back in the day. These Americans decide they got no one to invade, so they'll invade Canada. So they the first thing they do to make the Canadians mad is cross the river into Canada and takes bags of garbage and just start dumping again everywhere because they think Canada Canadians will be so angry about that.

00;05;31;27 - 00;05;32;27
Murray Dueck
Right?

00;05;33;00 - 00;05;33;28
Joshua Hoffert
Lightly returning the.

00;05;33;28 - 00;05;51;12
Murray Dueck
Garbage. Really mad. Yeah. And then they can't make anybody mad. So they're finally at this hockey game. They're trying to insult the queen whether saying it and now that's working it finally got this beer tastes like trash. And then suddenly the guy comes over the boards, just starts pounding. So what do you do in Canada?

00;05;51;12 - 00;05;53;05
Josh Lewis
You sold the beer and sold the beer.

00;05;53;09 - 00;05;53;28
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. There you.

00;05;53;28 - 00;05;54;26
Josh Lewis
Go. nobody.

00;05;54;29 - 00;06;22;05
Murray Dueck
But anyway, you gotta watch the movie. It'll explain a lot. So, But. Okay, so question. I mean, I mean, because we're, boy, we're hitting the high charismatic marks here, which is really good. So I just like again, journey to me is really important how God shapes people. I think it's very intentional. So so looking at the church you're planting, doing the Nicene Creed every week and doing communion every week and doing liturgy, how did you put that together?

00;06;22;08 - 00;06;22;25
Murray Dueck
Because some.

00;06;22;25 - 00;06;23;21
Joshua Hoffert
Question. Yeah.

00;06;24;06 - 00;06;36;09
Murray Dueck
because, you know, most of our listeners are kind of like, you know, charismatics on the kind of similar journey like what was going on here. And, and so, yeah, there you go. Well, I mean, why is it valuable to you? Yeah.

00;06;36;11 - 00;06;49;25
Josh Lewis
I found it to be beautiful and true. So I was like, oh, this is good, right? Yeah, I thought that was good. so the part of it was just the pragmatics of it, right? Like like I like it. but then I had a conversation in.

00;06;49;25 - 00;06;52;08
Joshua Hoffert
Terms of energy. You mean I like it? Yeah.

00;06;52;11 - 00;07;15;08
Josh Lewis
I liked it. I liked the liturgy. So it worked. When I was in an Anglican church, I liked it. but then, I had a conversation with a worship pastor named Joel. I forget his last name. He's kind of a friend of a friend, and Joel told a story about when he was in a charismatic church. They would go to the home groups and, you know, his wife would be in the home group with the charismatic women and, and they'd practice spiritual gifts.

00;07;15;08 - 00;07;31;28
Josh Lewis
And it was kind of an open thing. And then he got hired as a worship pastor at another church. And at this other church. They did a prayer of confession, and it really rubbed his wife wrong. She just didn't like it. She was like, man, I, I can confess my sins to God. I don't have to do it in this public church service, you know?

00;07;31;28 - 00;07;49;04
Josh Lewis
And, it makes her kind of feel icky or whatever. And she just wasn't comfortable with the tradition. And then she got plugged into a home group at that church, and the women just talked about their sin. And it was odd. It was kind of startling, like, oh, like, we can be open about this. We can talk about our sin.

00;07;49;04 - 00;08;16;05
Josh Lewis
The church that I grew up in, we kind of hid this and bottled this up and wouldn't talk about it. And Joel said this phrase that I can't let go of. he said, Sunday morning service is the operating system that we live Monday through Saturday in. Oh, and and the the what we do on Sunday forms and fashions and shapes us in such a way that we carry that we don't realize it, but it's like a it's an invisible dialog that runs in the background of our lives.

00;08;16;08 - 00;08;37;22
Josh Lewis
And when I, when I get together, you know, I have a sermon, this Sunday, first Timothy, I'm doing chapter two. I spent all my last sermon and first Timothy, all entire, you know, section on verse five, but I'm doing on on six and seven. talks about, he rants himself for all. So I'm gonna talk about ransom theory.

00;08;37;22 - 00;08;53;26
Josh Lewis
I'm gonna talk about universalism. I'm going to talk about, you know, at the proper time, you know, being called to be a preacher of the gospel. So I'm gonna talk about that section, of Scripture. And what I'm not going to talk about in that text is the resurrection. I'm not going to talk about the virgin birth.

00;08;54;07 - 00;09;13;22
Josh Lewis
I'm not going to talk about Jesus suffering under Pontius Pilate because my text doesn't talk about it. Right. I'm going to exegetical preach my text. So, like, how do I remind my congregation about the fullness and the beauty of the whole gospel? How can I remind them that all of the good things that Jesus has given them, and his incarnation and his death, burial, and resurrection?

00;09;13;22 - 00;09;34;20
Josh Lewis
If my text hinders me, limits me, boxes me to just talk about these aspects of the atonement, well, let's recite the Creed, right? Like let's remind ourselves of the whole goodness of the Christian faith. Let's let's unify ourselves not just as one church here in Ada, but the historic Christian faith. Like, I just think of the great cloud of witnesses sitting up in heaven on the Lord's day.

00;09;34;22 - 00;10;00;14
Josh Lewis
And we get to the part of the service that they're like, oh, I remember this part. Like we've always quoted the Creed, like, I'm I'm doing this as an ecumenical act of, yes, the Church Universal is saying this creed on Sunday, but also the Heavenly Council is familiar for the last 1700 years of this part of the service, where we recite the Creed, we confess our sin, and we take the table together, like those are the familiar points for them.

00;10;00;17 - 00;10;21;11
Josh Lewis
And and we have a great cloud of witnesses that we're united with as we gather together in the assembly. So, thinking in terms of like, how did liturgy happen? Well, I saw the I saw the historic church using these forms, this habituation to form and fashion. The believer. And I thought, what better, what better thing could we do?

00;10;21;11 - 00;10;41;20
Josh Lewis
Not let's not reinvent the wheel. Let's just adopt the way, like in the day where we've gotten rid of catechism, we become theologically shallow. So it's like, what's the what's what's the answer? Well, let's invent this new thing or crazy thought, let's get back to the catechism. Like let's get let's catechism right. Like like like what we used to not be this now or this.

00;10;41;22 - 00;10;57;07
Josh Lewis
And let's invent something new. Or maybe we could just go back, you know, like we have a bunch of people in our churches that are super self righteous. Why are they so self righteous? I don't know, maybe because they don't confess their sin every Sunday. Right? Like it's so true.

00;10;57;07 - 00;10;58;01
Murray Dueck
If you.

00;10;58;04 - 00;11;16;04
Josh Lewis
I'll try to forgive you, I'll try to for a memory, but like, you know, most merciful father, we confess that we have sinned against you in thought, word and deed. By the things that we have done, by things we have we left undone. We have not loved you with our whole heart, mind, soul, and strength. We have not loved our neighbor as ourselves.

00;11;16;04 - 00;11;33;10
Josh Lewis
You alone know how we have grieved you, following the devices and desires of our own hearts. Have mercy on us. Forgive us our sins. Renew us by the power of your Holy Spirit. So may be walking, walking your highways. I'm going to. I'm going to butcher the last part. I think it's walk in your will. yeah.

00;11;33;18 - 00;11;36;04
Joshua Hoffert
And I prayer right over there. I.

00;11;36;07 - 00;11;46;11
Josh Lewis
I've got, I've got my, my be thou my vision. It's like a daily devotional. Different liturgical prayers in it that I kind of follow daily, but, but but like, that's our that's it's very simple.

00;11;46;12 - 00;11;50;01
Joshua Hoffert
Prayer and the prayer of humble access. I think it's call. Right. Isn't that so.

00;11;50;01 - 00;12;02;22
Josh Lewis
So we call it a prayer confession. But like in that, in that prayer that I just recited that I am I'm teaching my church. It's not just the things that you've done, it's the things that you've left undone.

00;12;02;27 - 00;12;05;26
Joshua Hoffert
Right. So it's a powerful statement in that prayer. Yeah.

00;12;05;28 - 00;12;23;25
Josh Lewis
Both the sinner who knows that they've sinned, and the self-righteous person who thinks that they've done everything right has realized, oh, yeah, I haven't loved my wife perfectly as Christ loved the church. So like, even I stand condemned. Even I am in need of mercy. And we do this before we take the table, right? Like like making sure we're right with God.

00;12;25;01 - 00;12;34;08
Josh Lewis
like that is that is a part of our liturgy for a reason. so anyway, so everything has a purpose. Everything has a meaning. yeah. In a day where.

00;12;34;08 - 00;12;51;02
Joshua Hoffert
This stuff, by the way, is built, has, is built into the practice of the contemplative lives. So for others, they would have they had. Every morning when you wake up, consider your previous day. What are the things that you did that brought pleasure to the father's heart? What are the things you didn't do that didn't.

00;12;51;08 - 00;12;51;22
Josh Lewis
Happen.

00;12;51;24 - 00;13;12;21
Joshua Hoffert
That grieved his heart? So it's it's it's not even just that. It's a it. You're right. It's the it's the I like that statement. It's a software that habituate the lifestyle because then it's like, well, every morning I'm getting into this routine now and I'm thinking through these things. And then all of a sudden I'm confronted with a particular moment of choice and go, oh, I remember that.

00;13;12;21 - 00;13;19;23
Joshua Hoffert
There were things I didn't do. Maybe I'll do them this time. Right? It's it's it's like organic discipleship in that sense.

00;13;19;25 - 00;13;40;15
Josh Lewis
Yeah. My our favorite prayer in the church is our closing prayer. It's a prayer of thanksgiving again. I'll butcher it. but it goes something like, you know, you know, father, like we have we have sat at your feet, learn from your word and eaten from your table. we give you thanks and praise for accepting us into your family.

00;13;40;18 - 00;14;01;17
Josh Lewis
Send us out by the power of your Holy Spirit to live and witnessing for you. you know, to the glory of your name. Something to that effect. So it's a short prayer, but, I remember hearing a Lutheran brother say he was he was chastising evangelical as evangelical one liners. You know, things that we just say, you know, like these megachurch pastors can.

00;14;01;20 - 00;14;31;04
Josh Lewis
Now I'm chastising them, we'll say things like, you don't come to church to get you come to church to serve. And this I think I was like, that is the biggest load of crap ever. Like, just like, look like the good gifts of God, the means of grace that's found in the preaching and teaching of the word, the means of grace found in the assemblies, worship that he that he inhabits, the praise of his people, that that fellowship with the body and the blood takes place in the table like like real koinonia.

00;14;31;04 - 00;14;51;19
Josh Lewis
Fellowship with the spirit happens in a unique way in the assembly. When these 2 or 3 are together in his name, like there's there's some kind of means of grace, even in the assembly that's not there on a Monday through Friday. Like there's something significant. The reason you come to church is to receive those good gifts. It's the reason I can't get on board with, like, online church.

00;14;51;19 - 00;15;19;00
Josh Lewis
Like I, you know, like there's the embodied thing of church. Like you can't watch remnant Radio and say, I've gone to church. That's again, right, right. That's maybe more grievous to the heart of God than the guy who says, you come to church to serve, not to get, because there's some aspect of that that is true. but but man, I, I, we pray that prayer at the end of our service to remind people there's something here, not just in our church, but in the church of Jesus Christ that you cannot get anywhere else.

00;15;19;22 - 00;15;42;25
Josh Lewis
and it's the means of grace that he's given his people. And so, so as a charismatic, that's how I frame our church. There's these ordinary means of grace and these extraordinary means of grace. And I just want all of God that I can get. I want to surround myself by these ordinary means where he's promised to be, and then expect him because of his character and his nature for this extraordinary moment.

00;15;42;25 - 00;16;07;17
Josh Lewis
He doesn't owe me healing. He doesn't owe me a prophetic word. But he's good and he breaks it, and he gives us a taste of the age to come. Even now, in this life, in these moments of healing. So, like, what I want to tell the body is like, hey, get as much of God as you can in these ordinary means and just as you as you feast on the goodness of God in the ordinary means, there are these moments of extraordinary glory where he breaks in.

00;16;07;17 - 00;16;23;21
Josh Lewis
And just to say, I want you to have both, and to say that I don't want to I don't want to separate them as if they're an enemy or at war with one another. It's like the spirit is at work in both. And, teaching the people of God to feast on his good gifts, I think, is what church is.

00;16;24;16 - 00;16;26;21
Josh Lewis
yeah. So.

00;16;26;24 - 00;16;30;15
Joshua Hoffert
So symbol or sacrament, then?

00;16;30;18 - 00;16;34;19
Josh Lewis
Oh, sacrament, dude. Yeah. Just a symbol can burn, like.

00;16;35;15 - 00;16;36;01
Joshua Hoffert
like.

00;16;36;03 - 00;17;02;28
Josh Lewis
Like I, I, I, I have all about that, yeah. Let's let's get back to revisionist history. Let's get rid of Zwingli altogether. Let's just scrub him from history, remove him entirely. I mean, my Calvin, my also going to my only tattoo is, you know, I dove in and around and through the table like, it's just a cup of raw and and a and bread and it says Hawk est corpse man, which is, this is my body.

00;17;02;28 - 00;17;10;26
Josh Lewis
And I butchered the Latin for whatever nerd knows the language of Latin. it's where we get the phrase hocus pocus. Did you know that?

00;17;10;28 - 00;17;12;15
Joshua Hoffert
No, I did so Hawk.

00;17;12;15 - 00;17;35;04
Josh Lewis
Hawk s corpus, ma'am, means this is my body in Latin. And, so many of the Latin speaking priest became Protestant during the Protestant Reformation that there was a few priests left over who could not pronounce Hawke as corpus, ma'am. And they would say hocus pocus. And the Protestant would chastise the Catholics for not being able to pronounce the blessing.

00;17;35;04 - 00;17;47;23
Josh Lewis
And they would say, you think you're hocus pocus turns the the body into flesh and the wine into blood. And that's where the witchcraft, connection of hocus pocus comes from. So anyway, has that.

00;17;47;26 - 00;17;49;08
Murray Dueck
But here's a fun little factoid.

00;17;49;11 - 00;17;57;05
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, I didn't I didn't I obviously did not know that. Yeah, yeah. Very interesting Mary thoughts.

00;17;57;07 - 00;18;19;17
Murray Dueck
Well, I just I think it was Calvin who said that that, he accused, Luther of being a bread worshiper. So, I just, so fascinating because, I mean, again, that that's come a long way from, you know, where you started out to, to go. Okay, this is the body and blood of Christ. I mean, I'm there too, and I, because I, I mean, I like I have a lot.

00;18;19;17 - 00;18;21;01
Joshua Hoffert
That's what Jesus said, so.

00;18;21;08 - 00;18;22;15
Murray Dueck
Yeah. Well, yeah, you know, kind.

00;18;22;15 - 00;18;23;12
Joshua Hoffert
Of as simple as that.

00;18;23;12 - 00;18;44;07
Murray Dueck
There isn't an early church writer. I mean, I wasn't, Ignatius said said I could be wrong. I'm just having to pull my names up here. Pretty sure he said, Ignatius, you know, he's about 150. Yeah. Somewhere in there he said that do not, have fellowship with those who consider the communion table only symbolic, right? Heretics. All right.

00;18;44;07 - 00;18;55;05
Murray Dueck
I mean, I mean, it's pretty clear in the early church, you know? So, so I'll. Okay, here's a thought. Since you asked me, for the last thing.

00;18;55;07 - 00;19;16;28
Josh Lewis
Can I can I go ahead? I'm so self-aware of the listener who thinks there are two options that it's like transubstantiation, actual blood in flesh, and then a symbol. I just want the average listener to know there is a wide range, from Calvin who believes we go up to Luther to think he comes down and and that's just what some kind of mystical fellowship and real presence and actual presence.

00;19;16;28 - 00;19;22;00
Josh Lewis
There's a there's just a wide range of traditions in there. So just just for the listener who's right are these guys.

00;19;22;01 - 00;19;22;25
Murray Dueck
So right here.

00;19;23;01 - 00;19;28;18
Josh Lewis
Yeah, I just just just so you know, there are other you can go watch, but like, yeah,

00;19;28;20 - 00;19;56;00
Joshua Hoffert
We had an Anglican priest who, by the way, we, we had an Anglican priest on, probably 20 episodes or so ago. Sure. And we went through 2 to 2 episodes about almost entirely about communion and the Eucharist and the different views and how we should think through those things. So if you want a fuller conversation about that, that's, that's, that talks about the nuances there.

00;19;56;26 - 00;20;16;24
Joshua Hoffert
then, you know, actually one of the things he said, just a side note of that. And I'll let Murray, carry on with his thought was when you I loved this when you remember this, Murray, when he said, when you look at the table in front of you, it's composed materially of wood, but once you assemble it in a particular way, you approach it differently.

00;20;16;27 - 00;20;36;10
Joshua Hoffert
And because it's assembled in a particular way and you've imputed meaning to it, it's just a bunch of wood, but you sit at it in the way it's composed, and it changes everything about how you engage with it. And I thought that was a beautiful analogy for communion is it could just be bread in front of you, but as soon as you approach that table, it changes.

00;20;36;12 - 00;20;47;23
Joshua Hoffert
Maybe not substantially in the Catholic way, but it's got a totally different meaning and a totally different, impact on you because it's sitting there. So anyway, or nobody.

00;20;47;23 - 00;20;49;18
Josh Lewis
Nobody ever died from a symbol, right?

00;20;49;19 - 00;20;50;01
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah.

00;20;50;04 - 00;20;50;21
Josh Lewis
Yeah. Nobody ever.

00;20;50;23 - 00;20;52;01
Murray Dueck
Yeah. There you go.

00;20;52;03 - 00;21;04;18
Josh Lewis
So I just I just might drop that, you know, sorry, Murray for interrupt you. I apologize, man, I just, I, I always have, like, the listener in mind and, like, theology. Yeah. So. Yeah. Go ahead, I apologize. Fredericton.

00;21;04;20 - 00;21;26;25
Murray Dueck
Well, that's why I'm asking this question, because I, I, the same kind of thing because, you know, it was I'll just throw this out and I might have said this before, but I a father, Mike, who's kind of a friend of our podcast, he's an Orthodox guy. And, same journey he started out kind of word faith guy as a kid and, and, he had this monk friend and I got to sit down with this guy, and he would look me in the eye.

00;21;26;25 - 00;21;44;13
Murray Dueck
At first he was like, oh, one of those prophetic kind of scary, you know, and eventually we we hit it off and, and I said, well, tell me about evangelicals and tell me about charismatics, because I've never met one before. He's this Romanian monk. Right. So, and I'm like, well, you know, and I said the word church split in there going, stop, stop.

00;21;44;13 - 00;22;03;05
Murray Dueck
What do you mean by that? Well, sometimes, you know, in the charismatic church, you know, we come to a different agree, thoughts on something. And some of us think God is saying one thing and another says another, and the church divides. It goes, wow, that's amazing. What amazing theology he goes, in my church, I'm always wrong, right?

00;22;03;06 - 00;22;18;00
Murray Dueck
And, his point goes, well, could you believe that? I'm allowed to think that and think that's self-righteousness and and he was like, you know, because again, you know, the topic went from there into, you know, we need to learn to look in the heart and work on our stuff. You know, that that's what we need to do.

00;22;18;00 - 00;22;44;21
Murray Dueck
And, and, and the reason I bring that back here is his confession. Right. And and mainly in the charismatic churches I have grown up in, you know, because you're ending with communion and you're having a time of confession beforehand and very liturgical thinking in it while having, you know, charismatic practice. You mentioned prophecy, for example. so my my experience is and that's why I'm moving more liturgical myself.

00;22;44;21 - 00;23;07;13
Murray Dueck
So this maybe why personally, I like this question. In the you know, I really grew up vineyard, right. That was, you know, my background very much ministry time at the end. Ministry. That's the last thing we do. We're going to do ministry time. And I like I like ministry time and and, you know, very little confession. And I do a lot of inner healing with people.

00;23;07;16 - 00;23;25;18
Murray Dueck
Something I do, we don't talk usually about what they did. We talk about what was happening to them. So one on the one hand, we're always getting ministered to because I need healing. and the other hand, I always need inner healing because somebody's hurt me. But we're not talking about what we did or or vice versa.

00;23;25;18 - 00;23;40;00
Murray Dueck
It's kind of taken right out of the church in a way. Right. And, and, and you found a way to kind of instill it back in, how how did you grab that as an essential thing? And I.

00;23;40;02 - 00;23;41;26
Josh Lewis
I don't know, quite understand.

00;23;41;29 - 00;23;42;22
Murray Dueck
Yeah.

00;23;42;24 - 00;23;57;07
Joshua Hoffert
Let me I think I know what I'm learning. So in contemporary charismatic practices and then in inner healing and, and in ministry time and that kind of stuff, it's, it's it's usually the ministry time is what was done to you. That's what we're.

00;23;57;07 - 00;23;58;29
Murray Dueck
Trying. So it's focused on self.

00;23;58;29 - 00;24;12;22
Joshua Hoffert
It's focused on health. It's not focused on what have I done that I need to recover from repentance, confession and and inner healing models. And in you know, that's not fair probably to characterize all in healing models that way.

00;24;12;22 - 00;24;13;10
Murray Dueck
Absolutely.

00;24;13;10 - 00;24;34;27
Joshua Hoffert
But in terms of charismatic ministry time come, you know, this person hurt me. Come pray for me because I feel hurt by this person. And what Murray's saying is you you discovered such a rich, appreciation and then started implementing. We're going to talk about confession, prayer of humble access, prayer of general repentance, whatever terminology you want to use.

00;24;34;27 - 00;24;35;05
Joshua Hoffert
Right.

00;24;35;05 - 00;24;36;09
Murray Dueck
And you mix them together.

00;24;36;12 - 00;24;49;11
Joshua Hoffert
And you put them all together and you're going, there's something rich here. And we love that. I love the story that you shared about, Joel and his wife coming to that appreciation. So Murray's question is like how?

00;24;49;14 - 00;25;03;01
Murray Dueck
Yeah, because you're taking people like Joel's wife. Yeah. Because that would be, I think, typical charismatic thinking. Sure. And you're transitioning into this other confessional model. Yeah. But you there's a lot of thinking. You got to bring people.

00;25;03;04 - 00;25;10;19
Joshua Hoffert
There's steps on the journey that people are going. So I'm uncomfortable with this. And you're like, oh, well, well.

00;25;10;22 - 00;25;15;08
Josh Lewis


00;25;15;11 - 00;25;45;04
Josh Lewis
So, okay, so I can't tell you how it happened. I think there was just. I'm just trying to chase the wind. Right? Like, I just be honest, like, there are things that I just. When when the Lord shows you something and it just, like, drops into your spirit and you're like, yeah, yeah, that has nothing to do with anything I've ever done before, but it is going to be a part of the rest of my life, like communion was not important to my church, any church tradition I've ever been raised in.

00;25;45;06 - 00;25;48;04
Josh Lewis
Right. and then that's when I might say something.

00;25;48;04 - 00;25;49;02
Murray Dueck
Resonating, though.

00;25;49;04 - 00;26;06;07
Josh Lewis
Yeah, it's when someone says something like on a podcast I'm talking to like, oh, so I can I can really encounter God and and communion. And then I remember. I remember being at a coffee shop. I'm going to cry. This is so messed up. Okay. So, messed.

00;26;06;08 - 00;26;07;11
Joshua Hoffert
With some messed up.

00;26;07;14 - 00;26;27;11
Josh Lewis
I was, I was in a coffee shop with a Anglican, not a Lutheran, high church Lutheran guy and, Church of Christ guy. And then we're just talking about the different ways that they pass communion in their church. he was talking about how, you know, Christ comes to you right where you are. They pass the elements down the aisle.

00;26;27;13 - 00;26;48;03
Josh Lewis
You know, some people, they come and they receive a good gift. They ascend the platform like they travel into heaven, as it were. They kneel at the altar, they take the heavenly gift, and then they go out and witness in the world. They they take the good gift and they go and and they just the way that that they passed communion, you know, how some people would hold the elements and come up and the body of Christ broken for you, right?

00;26;48;03 - 00;27;05;24
Josh Lewis
The blood of Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And like a church, I was at the Anglican church I was in, and they had my name tag. Right, that they put on and it's a Josh, the body given for you. The blood spilled for you, Josh. And like, I remember an old lady. I bet she was 70, you know, said that phrase to me and it scared me.

00;27;05;24 - 00;27;32;06
Josh Lewis
Like I was like, whoa. Like like it was. It didn't like I didn't. I didn't stir up that feeling. It just happened. I remember sitting in that coffee shop and having them talk about the ways that their churches had divided and argued about the way that the table was passed. And I remember I haven't taken communion in six months, like, I, I just remember like, oh, people care about this and God cares about this, and my tradition doesn't.

00;27;32;08 - 00;27;55;22
Josh Lewis
And I remember in the coffee shop crying, being like, wow, that's it's so beautiful that there are people who care about the body in the blood, right? Like, and I guess I've listened to there's a podcast on Apple Podcasts. We've done on a Pentecostal view of baptism and a Pentecostal view of communion. And just the Pentecostals are just going, guys, we're all about God's Spirit meeting us in unusual ways.

00;27;55;23 - 00;28;14;04
Josh Lewis
Right? Like, why are we not making an emphasis of this? This should be an emphasis. Right? so I just go, man, if if God can talk through a donkey. Right. And, and then half of these ministers. Right like that God can use. We just talk about Bob Jones. Like people that are morally broken, that God actually can use.

00;28;14;10 - 00;28;36;27
Josh Lewis
Right. Like, man, I just can't. Why can't he use the bread in the cup? Right. Like if he says, this is the way that I'm going to use, like I'm going to meet you here, you meet with me and I'm going to go, yes, sir. Right. And I found that I remember taking communion like, why, why is it that we experience God in worship in the charismatic movement now?

00;28;37;00 - 00;29;06;17
Josh Lewis
Now, I think there could be an emotional aspect that the music kind of connects with us emotionally. There may be an aspect to that, but could it also be the fact that we've told people, he inhabits the praises of his people? Is it is it possible because we've given them an expectation to encounter the Lord in those moments, and because they've attached their faith to it, that they actually experience the Lord because they told that they could, and that, like the Word of God is living and active and sharper than a two edged sword, and we tell people that the power of God unto salvation can be found in the gospel and the good

00;29;06;17 - 00;29;22;16
Josh Lewis
news. And and that's why we preach every Sunday. you know, I've heard people will have you take communion every Sunday. Won't it be ritualistic? Won't it lose its power? And I said, well, do you read the Bible every Sunday that you get together? Do you preach? No one's going to say, let's stop preaching the Bible because we're getting religious.

00;29;22;16 - 00;29;40;21
Josh Lewis
You're like, no, that's absurd. It's the power of God. You want the power of God? Don't you get as much of God as you can? So like, surround yourself around the places that God has promised to be. And this is one of those areas. So, I found that when I would take the table, I would cry. I mean, I bet there was a year my wife would tell you it's probably a year and a half.

00;29;40;21 - 00;29;59;14
Josh Lewis
I would take the table, and every time I would tear up and cry because I was encountering the Lord. and and I think it was because someone told me I could write, you know, like, I just put faith on that. And I was like, oh, yeah, I can do this. if if God's Spirit has killed folk taking communion, like.

00;29;59;14 - 00;29;59;23
Joshua Hoffert


00;29;59;26 - 00;30;20;28
Josh Lewis
You know, for people who don't know that corner of First Corinthians, like it's there if Uzzah reaches out and touches of the ark and he dies, you know, that means that we can touch an object that is touching God, and it is a conduit by which we encounter the Lord. And if that can happen in an ark and that can happen with bread and wine, then, dude, I remember going to Hawaii this year.

00;30;21;00 - 00;30;41;03
Josh Lewis
I got to preach to, a systematic theology course to a group of missionaries. you know why we I'm students and, I preached at a Sunday morning in a very charismatic church, and I, I, I got back to the base doing the missions work and and the, the leader there was like, hey, we're getting together on Wednesday.

00;30;41;18 - 00;30;57;05
Josh Lewis
just kind of a huddle and a family fellowship. We're going to eat together. And I just said, hey, can we take communion? And he goes, what? And I was just like, I don't know, I didn't take it on Sunday. And I feel weird, you know, like, I just like, I just, I feel I feel like it's not like I've become that religious.

00;30;57;05 - 00;31;06;00
Josh Lewis
Call it whatever you want. Like, I don't feel like I. I've gotten to the point where, like, I just, I want to do this and I feel like I didn't have church because I didn't take communion. Right.

00;31;06;00 - 00;31;08;27
Murray Dueck
And I think that's absolutely brilliant. I yeah.

00;31;08;29 - 00;31;10;14
Joshua Hoffert
One of the things I noticed in.

00;31;10;14 - 00;31;12;10
Murray Dueck
And I just shaking, I love that.

00;31;12;15 - 00;31;40;14
Joshua Hoffert
In and starting to hang out with my Anglican priest friend years ago when we did our podcast together and I, I it was it stood out to me one Sunday where I was in his church and he's, he's got to, he's the priest of two parishes. So both both churches. And I noticed that their pulpit was up and off to the side.

00;31;41;19 - 00;31;46;19
Joshua Hoffert
and the pulpit at every church I had ever been to was center stage.

00;31;46;21 - 00;31;48;12
Josh Lewis
Right? Yep.

00;31;48;15 - 00;32;02;08
Joshua Hoffert
And I noticed the altar in his church was center stage. Right. And the quote unquote, altar, which was usually just a folding table with a cloth over it. Yeah. On my church was off to the side.

00;32;02;10 - 00;32;02;29
Josh Lewis
Yeah.

00;32;03;02 - 00;32;07;12
Joshua Hoffert
And I went, what do we value here.

00;32;07;15 - 00;32;20;17
Josh Lewis
Yeah. Our, our communions on the, on the stage. Right. I'm on the floor when I preach for that reason. Yeah. Now, now it is central because to me I just go, because I have more of a Lutheran view. the event.

00;32;20;19 - 00;32;22;03
Joshua Hoffert
Doesn't have to be one or the other, I just.

00;32;22;04 - 00;32;42;08
Josh Lewis
No, it doesn't have you one or the other. No, no, I'm with you. But, like what? What what makes the body and blood? Body and blood. It's the word of God, right? So it's like it's the power of God's word that that actually the promise of God's Word that gives this thing efficacy. Right? So, you know, the spirit somehow mystically unites in this kind of, you know, thing.

00;32;42;08 - 00;32;59;18
Josh Lewis
I have no words to talk like there's no earthly words that I have like it somehow, like the incarnation, Christ has come down and is with us in this weird, mystical way. And, that's central to what we do. And so, so it's on stage and it's center, but it's it's above me, like I'm preaching on the floor.

00;33;00;02 - 00;33;08;12
Josh Lewis
I don't even know, like my worship teams. Like, we've got a small stage and I'm like, make room, you know, like it's it's standing here. You're you're standing over there, you know, like, that's just kind of the way.

00;33;08;12 - 00;33;09;04
Joshua Hoffert
That we do it.

00;33;09;06 - 00;33;18;27
Josh Lewis
And I don't think that our churches, even I don't even think anyone's asked me why we do it that way. Yeah. wouldn't it be more convenient? Wouldn't it be easier if we put that on the floor? It's like, yeah, I probably would, but yeah.

00;33;18;29 - 00;33;35;25
Murray Dueck
Yeah, I just love that intentional shaping of God because, you know, again, we would say impactful event that's you'd sit with those guys and the spiritual principle you picked up there and how that shaped your values and your goals. It's even shaped how you're setting your church up on a Sunday morning. It's just so brilliant how the Lord does that.

00;33;35;25 - 00;33;59;06
Murray Dueck
And and I because because I, I had a I have a friend who's a, an Anglican priest, charismatic Anglican priest. you know, I don't live in that town anymore, unfortunately, but but I could go as a non Anglican and I could take communion there. And you know what, boy? The presence of God was there. Yeah. And and I would go, you know, why doesn't this happen when I take communion in my church, which we would do like once every six months, right.

00;33;59;09 - 00;34;17;19
Murray Dueck
So I tell people even now, find a charismatic Anglican church and just go on a Wednesday night, just it's different. And you know what? People won't do it. Yeah, they just won't. I'm like, why is it so hard for you to do this? And, you know, belief systems are amazing things. So that's why I was asking, how did you set it up?

00;34;17;24 - 00;34;28;18
Murray Dueck
Because belief systems are so hard to shift in people. And, you know, it's a bit of frog in the pot, right? I guess slowly over time they shift. But yeah, but it's amazing you've managed to put all this together. I just.

00;34;28;20 - 00;34;41;18
Josh Lewis
Find it. We have a we have a booklet that we have in our church. I kind of playfully call it a Protestant guide to liturgy, a Protestant Survival Guide to liturgy. Really. So. So, it's it that a person.

00;34;41;18 - 00;34;43;07
Joshua Hoffert
You gotta put that on Amazon or something.

00;34;43;16 - 00;34;50;11
Josh Lewis
well, I mean, it's nothing. It's nothing. It's like a little booklet. It's like six pages deep and it's like, this is the Nicene Creed. It was written in 325.

00;34;50;11 - 00;34;51;29
Joshua Hoffert
It end up on Amazon. Okay.

00;34;51;29 - 00;35;09;21
Josh Lewis
So sure. Yeah. So it's like it existed in 325. or this when it was put together, it was updated in 381. just kind of, you know, you'll see if you're a Protestant. Luther, Calvin, everybody believes in this thing. they quote this thing, but the there's a phrase in here that might cause my Protestant brothers to cringe a little bit.

00;35;09;21 - 00;35;25;15
Josh Lewis
It's this word Catholic faith. I do not take out Catholic. We say Catholic every Sunday. We do not say universal. We say Catholic. But but I, in that handout, say this is why we say Catholic, right? Is because it means universal church. It was before Rome was Rome, right? Like that's what this was, right? So so this isn't Roman Catholic.

00;35;25;15 - 00;35;42;24
Josh Lewis
This is the universal church of Jesus Christ. Right? you know, we're going to confess. And why do we confess in so it just it explains everything we do. It's got our little connect card in it, like every evangelical church has. So when I see a new person, I'm like, hey, thank you so much for coming. we do service in a way that's really traditional and historic.

00;35;42;24 - 00;35;56;06
Josh Lewis
It might be kind of odd to you. Protestants have been doing this for a long time. Here's a little booklet that'll explain everything we do and why we do it. So they put it in their hands and they can go home and read it after service, or they can follow through the service with us and read along as we're doing it.

00;35;56;08 - 00;36;08;25
Josh Lewis
So, we just, There there aren't booklets that we offer people that say why we have smoke screens and light shows in our churches.

00;36;08;28 - 00;36;09;21
Murray Dueck
Yeah.

00;36;09;23 - 00;36;31;05
Josh Lewis
You know, like it's we don't have them. And I think sometimes people are like, you know, want the lost feel uncomfortable if if our sermon doesn't sound like a Ted talk and the service doesn't feel like a Coldplay concert, I just go, yes, they will. And the church is for the people of God to form and fashion them, to be light and salt in the earth.

00;36;31;05 - 00;36;54;14
Josh Lewis
It's not particularly the assembly on the Lord's. It isn't particularly for the unbeliever. I know that's kind of like a radical thought, but like an an unbeliever should come into our midst and feel uncomfortable. They should go, why are they worshiping this guy? Like, why are they confessing their sins? Like why? Like, you know it. It should feel other and holy and sacred and different.

00;36;54;14 - 00;37;14;03
Josh Lewis
Not like a Ted talk and a Coldplay concert, I don't know, I mean, I'm a charismatic. I speak in tongues, prophesy, pray for the sick folk like I'm, I'm I'm as ghosty as the other. Anybody, you know, like, I'm, I'm, I'm an odd guy, right? Like I'm all for it, but like, yeah, like churches for God's people to equip them.

00;37;15;17 - 00;37;25;11
Josh Lewis
yeah. I want them to be the evangelists. It's not. It's not my job to do everything. How am I supposed to get up there on Sunday and harvest souls? Like, that's not the place to do it. okay, those are mine. Those are my unpopular opinions.

00;37;25;14 - 00;37;27;15
Murray Dueck
So brilliant. Very good.

00;37;27;20 - 00;37;33;29
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, yeah. Very good, very good. we have time for one more question.

00;37;34;01 - 00;37;34;27
Josh Lewis
Go ahead. Shoot.

00;37;34;29 - 00;37;51;26
Joshua Hoffert
Go ahead. One last question. Trying to changing gears just a little bit. Two minutes. Okay. so, you know, a successful YouTuber, we'll say that. Do you have one of those, like, YouTube things that say, I made this many subscribers? Yeah, yeah. Listen, they send to you.

00;37;51;28 - 00;37;53;07
Josh Lewis
Right? Yeah. It's somewhere over there.

00;37;53;10 - 00;37;56;11
Joshua Hoffert
Somewhere over there. It's not center stage. So. No.

00;37;56;11 - 00;37;59;24
Murray Dueck
Yeah. So no communion Saturday. Did you talk to you? That's right.

00;37;59;26 - 00;38;01;15
Josh Lewis
I've got bread and wine behind me.

00;38;01;17 - 00;38;15;10
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. There you go. There you go. Right, right. So church planter. Right. School runner, designer, social media extraordinaire, whatever. Right. All that stuff. Yeah. I also know that you play Fortnite with your kids.

00;38;15;12 - 00;38;16;17
Murray Dueck
Yes. Oh very nice.

00;38;16;17 - 00;38;39;08
Joshua Hoffert
Right? Yep. And and so talk to us a little bit about that. Like the, the the drive to impact church culture, educate people, all that kind of stuff. But being a dad, being a husband and and your, your, you know, quote unquote your vocation to your family.

00;38;39;11 - 00;39;04;08
Josh Lewis
Sure. if I never made another YouTube video again to, like, tomorrow, I'd be okay. I really think I would be okay. in fact, it is a constant prayer. When do I have to kill this? Because, I think there's so many in the fame driven culture that are being boiled alive and they don't get out of the pot is they don't they don't know they're being boiled alive.

00;39;04;14 - 00;39;30;04
Josh Lewis
Right. And I'm constantly praying like, when will this do brain damage? Like when, when will the applause cause me to become a narcissist and never be able to change? Like when? Like when is it too late? Too late? So, like, I'm always praying. Like, when do I have to let this go? Because I'm thankful that I have been able to contribute to the body of Christ, but genuinely believe that the answer for the church, the answer for for the world, is the Church of Jesus Christ.

00;39;30;10 - 00;39;53;24
Josh Lewis
I do not believe it's a supplemental podcast called Remnant Radio. I'm glad that I've been able to play a part in people's lives. I'm thankful for that. but I don't read comments like, I, I have a I have a person I hired that we have to pay for her counseling bills because she's our marketing director, and she reads those comments, and and it but it does damage the soul, man.

00;39;53;24 - 00;40;16;29
Josh Lewis
It really does. Like, I just I make a video and I walk away and I pray to God that it impacts people. But. But if it never did, I have a clean conscience and I just I'm doing things in light of that. so, so I think you do things cool. but realistically, I, we have a team now, so we've got a marketing director, we've got a person who runs our conferences, we have an assistant that does all of our booking.

00;40;17;07 - 00;40;33;17
Josh Lewis
I sit and read and write questions for our interviews and jump on a camera and talk, and that makes me a better pastor, which is nice. as a dad, I'm still in the discipline. I'll be honest, guys, I'm not the greatest dad in the world, and I'm still trying to figure out how to do that.

00;40;33;17 - 00;40;57;19
Josh Lewis
Well, so, you know, last night we did, you know, Bible reading and prayers together, and we kind of we work through some discipleship stuff as a family. but that's that's rarer than it, than it should be. you know, we we regularly do have a game night. We regularly do have, you know, an Alexa going on upstairs and Alexa downstairs, and we're using it as intercoms to to corner bad guys and take them out at night.

00;40;57;19 - 00;41;02;14
Josh Lewis
So, so that that is happening more frequently. And but then.

00;41;02;16 - 00;41;06;03
Joshua Hoffert
It's a mainstay in our house now too. So I get it. Yeah.

00;41;06;03 - 00;41;15;04
Josh Lewis
Scheduling I told I told my kids I was like, hey, I got a bunch of pastors friends. You've got kids that are like ready to take us on as a team. And you're like, let's go. I need my six year old's like.

00;41;15;17 - 00;41;16;28
Murray Dueck
you know, like a crazy.

00;41;17;13 - 00;41;19;26
Josh Lewis
so, he's like talking trash.

00;41;19;26 - 00;41;20;29
Joshua Hoffert
Like no clue.

00;41;20;29 - 00;41;22;18
Josh Lewis
How good these other players are.

00;41;23;06 - 00;41;24;20
Joshua Hoffert
let's go back to the discipleship now.

00;41;24;22 - 00;41;43;18
Josh Lewis
Yeah, let's go back to the discipleship. Yeah. So so we, I I'll be honest, man, I, I think I have way more to learn when it comes to scheduling time with my kids. Like just intentionally putting dates on the calendar and, like, we are playing Fortnite, we are doing a Bible study. We are doing this like it's become.

00;41;43;21 - 00;42;06;07
Josh Lewis
I'm sitting on my phone and realizing, my time is not being spent. Well, let's go spend some time with the kids like I, I, I'm not scheduling time with my kids. And the only way you protect your kids and protect your fatherly relationship or your husband relationship with your wife, like the the only way that you can steward those is if you actually put them on the calendar, and you actually schedule.

00;42;06;07 - 00;42;26;24
Josh Lewis
Right. because you'll find yourself just spending your time doing worthless things. So, I'm, you know, I'd grade myself as a C, you know, like, I'm not I'm not like a I'm not B, I'm not failing, but like, I'm not, I could I have so much room for improvement. so, I don't know that anyone needs to take advice from me on how to parent and YouTube.

00;42;26;24 - 00;42;43;16
Josh Lewis
Well, I'm not the world's greatest YouTuber because I don't read comments. I don't engage with content. I'm doing what I feel like we're supposed to do. Not so, like, don't take advice from me on YouTube or on parenting. I don't know that I'm particularly good at either at this stage of life. ask me and ask me.

00;42;43;16 - 00;42;48;05
Josh Lewis
In 14 years, when my kids are grown and I might have a better answer for you.

00;42;48;08 - 00;42;52;13
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, you might say quit YouTube. Yeah, yeah. Just focus on your kids.

00;42;52;13 - 00;42;54;05
Josh Lewis
Yeah, yeah, it might be the answer.

00;42;54;07 - 00;42;55;28
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but but.

00;42;55;28 - 00;43;04;15
Josh Lewis
I'll be honest, guys, I, I don't spend I think people think I'm a lot busier than I am. I've got a really good team around me that takes care of a lot of that stuff. Wonderful. So that's.

00;43;04;15 - 00;43;16;19
Joshua Hoffert
Good. Yeah. Yeah, that's very good. Well Josh, thanks so much for coming on. And thanks so much for, just sharing your heart in your journey. And, it was, it was, And thanks for crying.

00;43;16;22 - 00;43;17;09
Josh Lewis
Oh, sure.

00;43;17;15 - 00;43;17;24
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah.

00;43;17;24 - 00;43;20;02
Josh Lewis
Anytime. I'm a big fan, right? Believe it or not.

00;43;20;04 - 00;43;21;17
Joshua Hoffert
At the right moment. Yes.

00;43;21;18 - 00;43;23;06
Murray Dueck
Yeah. Fine timing. Right?

00;43;23;10 - 00;43;34;19
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. Yeah. That was beautiful. Yeah. And, so, for anyone that hasn't checked out the remnant radio, check out the remnant radio. But for anybody that hasn't been to Ada, Oklahoma King's church. Right. Is that King's church?

00;43;34;19 - 00;43;36;21
Josh Lewis
King's where? Kings fellowship, Kingsport fellowship?

00;43;36;21 - 00;43;43;15
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. So, you guys have a Facebook where you're posting, things and messages and all that, almost like blogs.

00;43;43;15 - 00;43;46;07
Josh Lewis
I mean, like, yeah, they're kind of like devotionals.

00;43;46;07 - 00;43;56;01
Joshua Hoffert
Yeah. So check out King's fellowship on, Facebook as well, and you'll see some of the stuff Josh has put out there. And, but anyway, I just so appreciate your friendship. Josh.

00;43;56;17 - 00;44;01;25
Josh Lewis
yeah. Likewise. Man, you've impacted me a lot when it comes to this kind of stuff, so I'm super thankful for your friendship.

00;44;01;27 - 00;44;06;15
Joshua Hoffert
That's awesome. well, Marie, I think we'll call this one to.

00;44;06;17 - 00;44;08;29
Murray Dueck
Yeah, it was wonderful. Thank you for being with us.

00;44;09;01 - 00;44;10;23
Josh Lewis
All right, so.

00;44;10;26 - 00;44;17;00
Joshua Hoffert
Until next time, everybody. God bless.

00;44;17;02 - 00;44;19;08
Joshua Hoffert
You, you.