#121 Flames of Faith: Ben Walkinshaw's Fiery Testimony of Rebuilding his Marriage in Christ's Love

Summary: Discover the incredible impact unexpected sources can have on personal change. Prepare to be deeply moved as we interview Ben Walkinshaw, a native of Nebraska. He shares his remarkable voyage of self-discovery and faith that's bound to resonate with all of us.

Ben's tale is a profound one, touching on his experience of God's love leading to his personal transformation. From embracing bodybuilding to bolster his confidence and establish his identity, his narrative is relatable on various levels.

But the journey doesn't conclude there. Ben delves into his marital challenges, confronting infidelity that jeopardized his relationship. He navigated this turmoil through prayerful introspection, uncovering a path to redemption. Surprisingly, even a reggae song played an unexpected but pivotal role in his transformation.

Our exploration encompasses themes of faith, struggle, and renewal. Ben's story encompasses resisting temptation, attaining liberation, and reconstructing relationships. Influential books like "Free from Sin" and "Why Isn't This Working?" are discussed, revealing how they aided him in finding solace amid life's storms.

Prepare to be captivated, inspired, and instilled with hope as we traverse this transformative journey.

View more resources on our website!

TimeStamps:
0:00 - Transformation Through the Gospel
11:52 - Identity, Bodybuilding, and Boosting Confidence
19:41 - Marriage, Religion, and Temptation
37:52 - Finding Hope and Redemption Through Podcasts
54:47 - Finding God Through Music and Transformation
1:02:29 - Finding Freedom and Rebuilding Relationships
1:14:05 - Finding Rest in the Storm

Keywords: Transformation, Faith, Self-discovery, Bodybuilding, Struggle, Redemption, Temptation, Reggae, Literature, Marriage, Healing, Hope.

Looking for discipleship and fellowship? Join a Circle at lovereality.org/circles

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:35

The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can And that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life.

Speaker 2: 0:55

But I do remember him saying something about God loving me. I don't remember if I said yeah, but he loves everybody. But I remember thinking wait a second, wait a second, wait a second. You mean God loves me, not me as part of everybody else, but Ben Wachenshaw, god loves me. He died for me. My sins, he took those from Ben And that realization changed everything.

Speaker 1: 1:27

Yo, welcome to the Death to Life podcast. My name is Richard Young And today's episode is with my guy, ben Wachenshaw. But before we get into Ben's episode, what I want to do is tell you to share this episode with a friend, and this episode is quite powerful, deals with some stuff that probably isn't for children's ears, but if you have a friend who's struggling, this can encourage them and help them And encourage them and bring them life. So share this episode with a friend. Yeah, ben, his story is. It's not easy, but God has changed his life, changed his heart, and old Ben is dead And you're going to hear about that in this episode. It is powerful. So, without further ado, buckle up and strap in Love. Y'all appreciate y'all. Here's Ben Ben man where are you from? Who are you? What's your quest? Where does it all start?

Speaker 2: 2:39

First I got to say that we need to get this mug started And it's straight fire up in here. I don't know. I just wanted to catch all the Death to Life buzzwords quick before I forget.

Speaker 1: 2:53

I don't know why I speak the way I speak. Maybe it's because I still think that the early 2000s of the late 1990s are the way that everyone should be speaking.

Speaker 2: 3:04

Absolutely. I agree completely.

Speaker 1: 3:07

That is how I speak. Yeah, man. When you first started hearing this stuff, what I was saying and how I was talking, were you like what in the world is this?

Speaker 2: 3:16

No, not at all. I thought it was perfectly appropriate. So, yeah, we had to get those buzzwords out quick.

Speaker 1: 3:23

Where are you from? Where'd you grow up?

Speaker 2: 3:25

I grew up in Lincoln, Nebraska. I was raised there. All through college I got hired onto Fremont Fire and that was the first time I moved out, And then I moved back to Lincoln once I got hired on Lincoln Fire.

Speaker 1: 3:39

So you grew up. I don't think I've ever met you in person, even though I lived in Lincoln for 13 years. I don't think we ever ran into each other.

Speaker 2: 3:52

I'm sure we have. Just didn't know it because I started dating my wife, nicole, when we were like 17. So that'd be in 2000. I'm sorry, 95.

Speaker 1: 4:06

Okay.

Speaker 2: 4:07

So from 95 to now I'd been around the College View Church and Union College. And I think my brother-in-law, jason Reed, so there was probably some overlap in there. Man, all the Reeds, who's?

Speaker 1: 4:21

the youngest, reed Who's the. Stacy No, not Stacy, kayla. Yeah, all of them came through College View. Shout out to Jason Reed, who was on my intramural team one season and hated playing with me in basketball. More than he hates anything he hated playing with me And fair enough. I did not pass him the ball. But yeah, man. So did you grow up in a Christian household? Did you grow up as a Christian?

Speaker 2: 4:54

Church for me growing up was Sunday school. There was a church about a half a block away So my parents just sent me and my sister down for Sunday school on Sundays. And we never really went to church service. My parents never went to church service unless someone was getting married or buried or baptized. That was the only time I've ever seen them in church And we did that for several years until I was old enough to help more at home. We never used our furnace, so I was always cutting firewood with my dad or doing cleanup stuff in the yard. So when I was old enough to do that, I wasn't going to Sunday school anymore.

Speaker 1: 5:37

Which you feel like you learned at Sunday school. What was the stuff you were coming away with?

Speaker 2: 5:42

I don't know, not a whole lot. I don't remember the denomination of the church, But I remember the felt figures, the felt Jesus on the board. As a side note, I'm really glad that I transitioned into Sabbath school for my kids So they got to enjoy the felt Jesus as well. But I do remember there was I understand what an altar call is now, But I remember them in Sunday school asking if we had Jesus in our hearts And if we gave our lives to Jesus and that kind of stuff. And I remember Because I did it. It seemed like every other week, it seemed often And I remember every time they asked even though I've done it several times I kept raising my hand saying that I wanted Jesus in my heart And in just case the last time didn't catch or Can't be too careful, doesn't? hurt Doesn't hurt to ask again. So at least that was my mindset.

Speaker 1: 6:44

Were you pretty sincere as a kid, did you? I like this or I want that to be?

Speaker 2: 6:50

I think so. I wasn't doing it for any other reason. So yeah, I was sincere.

Speaker 1: 6:57

Yeah, so you did that until you got to stay at home.

Speaker 2: 7:02

I did that until, like I said, i was old enough to help more around the house and Or the yard. And then Sundays, until All the time. Sundays just quit being church Sunday school day And it was the day that I would help cut firewood or clean up the yard or whatever. And that didn't come back until I started dating Nicole, like in 95 or whatever. Then I just went to church with her on Saturday and that's where I've been since.

Speaker 1: 7:33

So who was God? as you're growing up, as you're going through middle school, high school, was God a factor in decisions that you made, or was God just? I probably believe in God, but wasn't an impact on your life.

Speaker 2: 7:50

No, i definitely believed in God, and I guess it was more of a fear-based relationship where I don't want to go to hell, even though I don't know what that is, it doesn't sound great. Yeah, i believed in God, and as far as who he was and the effect on my decision-making, i got to say I was always able to word things to myself to justify whatever I wanted to do, whether it was something I know I shouldn't do. I always felt bad when I did something I knew I shouldn't do. I got over it pretty quick though. So God was more of a I don't want to say scare tactic, but like a scare tactic.

Speaker 1: 8:42

What did he think about you in your mind? It just depended on how you were behaving.

Speaker 2: 8:47

I never really thought about what he thought about me. I know, and this was the key thing that led to my death It was just the fact that I knew God. I knew he loved me. but from everything that I've been told, he loved everybody. That's his deal. he's God. If everybody is special, is anybody special? That was kind of a thing that I was thinking Yeah, he loves me big deal, he loves everybody.

Speaker 1: 9:21

It wasn't personal to you, it wasn't. God loves Ben it.

Speaker 2: 9:25

God loves the world and you have to be part of the world. but Exactly, yeah.

Speaker 1: 9:31

Huh, I'm interested to hear how that later leads to calamity. but so yeah so you're going through anything of note as it comes to your identity as you're growing up and what you believed about yourself and who you were.

Speaker 2: 9:51

I don't know. I never really was myself. I was always trying to fit in, who my friends wanted me to be, who other people expected me to be, even though I was. I had always said that that I'd like to be different. I wanted to be different, but not very. I wanted to be different, but in a socially acceptable way, if that makes any sense.

Speaker 1: 10:25

That's like the typical high school of mine, right? I want to be different, just like everybody else. Like you, don't want to be what your parents want you to be. You want to be your own self, which is just like your buddies.

Speaker 2: 10:39

Kind of yeah Yeah as far as the clothes that I wore. my friends didn't wear the same kind of stuff, but I was, i set myself apart, but not crazy.

Speaker 1: 10:53

What were you wearing? What were you into?

Speaker 2: 10:56

I don't know 90s stuff untouched for Adderall's son. I did, did everybody? No, yeah, I mean I don't know. Yeah, you're probably right, i probably wanted to be different, just like everybody else, Just like my friends. I, yeah see, i don't think about a whole lot of that kind of stuff And I just let whatever happens happen.

Speaker 1: 11:24

But yeah, sorry, No, you're good So your identity. I think this is a typical, not typical like in. You're not special, but in. These thoughts happen when you're growing up. There's all this life is good, hopefully when you're a kid, in middle school, and then suddenly something changes and all this insecurity comes in and you're trying to be enough and trying to add up. Where did you go to high school? in Lincoln.

Speaker 2: 11:51

I went to Northeast High School and at Northeast I even before that I never really did sports still don't So I felt left out when all my friends were talking about Husker football. I didn't know anything about Husker football. Saturdays I was working at my dad's shop. I never paid attention to Husker football.

Speaker 1: 12:15

For the listener if you're not from Lincoln, nebraska. Husker football is the religion for the state of Nebraska.

Speaker 2: 12:22

And Todd.

Speaker 1: 12:23

Osborne was the God of that religion. And when you were a young man right in 1995, he was like the good times For someone to say in Lincoln, Nebraska, they don't know much about Husker football. That's like a fish saying it doesn't know what water's like.

Speaker 2: 12:41

Absolutely. Yeah, I didn't know about that stuff And I wasn't very talented in sports. As soon as I found something that I did, which was swimming I wasn't very good at swimming either, but I liked it at least. So my identity in junior high school was swimmer and drummer. I was on the drum line also. Marching drum line Wasn't great either, but I enjoyed it And I wasn't the worst guy there, so it was fun. So, as far as identity is concerned, that's who I was. That was where all my friends were, That was all I thought about, all I talked about. So, yeah, that's what I did all through high school basically.

Speaker 1: 13:27

What was your plan going forward? What did you want to do with your life?

Speaker 2: 13:31

I wanted to either be a police officer or a firefighter And that was just always the stuff that I wanted to do. And when I was thinking about it I realized that unfortunately, nobody really likes cops. They're never happy to see a cop And everybody loves firefighters. It's a pretty easy decision to make from there. So I went to SEC for a couple of years and got a fire degree and I got hired right away After high school was out. I wasn't a swimmer anymore, i wasn't a drummer anymore, so I needed to figure something else out, and firefighter filled the hole. I guess that's what I was after that. That was my identity. After high school and then through the fire department, which was Fremont, at that time I started working out. And before that, before I was working out, I was never competitive. I just didn't care. And when I started working out in Fremont with the rest of the guys on my shift, they felt like being a part of a team, something that I've never really been before. So I'd work out with them every day that I worked And the challenge was brought up with my captain at the time And there was like a. We had a competition to see who could bench press 200 pounds first And I figured I'd give it a shot, because why not? And I won And that really felt awesome because I never really won anything before. I was never really talented at sports. Like I said, i wasn't the greatest at swimming or drumming, the two things that I did enjoy. And here comes this thing that I never really considered. I was never competitive And now all of a sudden I won. And now I can basically shred around and say that I beat this guy, which I wasn't really supposed to be because he was my captain. But and talking about it, now that kind of started my bodybuilding Yeah, it's not a career, but my bodybuilding lifestyle hobby, i don't know what you call it. And lift in, working out, was it? That was the thing, that was me And I was good and felt really awesome, sound like it gave you some purpose. I could give me. I don't know about purpose, but it certainly gave my ego the affirmation that I wanted People telling me that, oh wow, you're huge, what do you do And how much do you eat, and comments and stuff like that All the time. We'd be on medical calls and we'd be wrapping up the medical call and some kid in the family would be, hey, what do you do for your arms? Or what do you do for your legs? And I was a little embarrassed. But it felt good that, like I said before, this kid that was never interested in sports, was never interested in anything, couldn't do anything. Well, all of a sudden, people asking me all kinds of questions about this deal, this thing I'm involved in now, the sport that I do, and it felt like I was important, like I was somebody which I've never really had that before.

Speaker 1: 17:22

Were you a pretty introverted, quiet person growing up.

Speaker 2: 17:27

Yeah, yeah, i still am. I'm not anti-social, but I mean I've discussed this quite a bit. Actually I'm not anti-social, i just prefer smaller groups. So if I'm in a large group, my whole life I don't do well, i'm pretty quiet, i keep to myself. I'll talk if somebody talks to me, but I don't go seek out conversation, small groups, i'm fine. It's a lot easier to talk to a few people than a lot.

Speaker 1: 17:58

Did the bodybuilding give you a boost in confidence?

Speaker 2: 18:04

You would think. But no, I was still pretty introverted And now when I'm up on stage with 3% body fat and a banana hammock yeah, I was the stuff. I was able to do all my poses and do my little posey routine and that kind of stuff with complete confidence. And there's a psychological element.

Speaker 1: 18:28

You were at 3% body fat. How do you do that? Was it like crazy dedication?

Speaker 2: 18:34

Oh yeah, it's all or nothing really. It's diet and cardio and fat burners help quite a bit, but yeah, you can get down there. It's not fun, you shouldn't stay there for very long, but yeah.

Speaker 1: 18:50

How long after you started bodybuilding did you start going to competition?

Speaker 2: 18:57

So while I was at Fremont I saw a bodybuilding competition on ESPN And then I realized that's what I wanted to do. So as soon as I saw that I decided I wanted to be a bodybuilder. I went to a competition just to see how it was ran. And then I trained for a year with that one goal. And then a year later, after I started competing And I got first and third in my classes in that competition And I was being on stage hearing people cheer for you People you don't even know And at the same time my kids went to a lot of my shows, my wife went to nearly all of them. And I was still able to hear my kids yelling in the audience audiences from 100 people to a couple hundred people. I could still pick out my kids' voices. And being that for my kids and being that for everybody else is awesome. I was hooked. It was then. I never looked back after that.

Speaker 1: 20:16

So before you were into the bodybuilding, had you met your wife? Did she meet you? And there was this transformation afterwards, or did you? How did that work?

Speaker 2: 20:25

Oh no, i didn't OK. so I met Nicole when I was 17. And I don't think my first show was until 2000.

Speaker 1: 20:42

About five years later or something, Yeah something like that.

Speaker 2: 20:45

So yeah, she knew me way before I did any bodybuilding or anything really.

Speaker 1: 20:53

No. So tell me a little bit about that. Did you guys meet when you're 17? And you just both really what she introduces you to Adventism?

Speaker 2: 21:04

So I was at a party with my buddies from Drumline And it was a typical high school party for public school kids. I know it's different for private school. So yeah, i was at a party And then they wanted to cruise O Street, which is main dragon in town, and that's what was cool. I guess it's cell is, my kid doesn't know. But yeah, so we cruise O Street. Yeah, we were trying to pick up some girls And I saw Nicole and her friends, so I asked them to pull over and met her on O Street. We started dating.

Speaker 1: 21:46

I love that. I don't think I've ever met anybody who's gotten married by cruising O Street. And I don't know why they like when. I got to link it in 2002, they called it cruising O Street And it's now called cruising O Street. And yeah, that's awesome that you met Yeah. Wait, you're just driving along and you're like pull over there in another car.

Speaker 2: 22:08

Yeah, i said an off color joke to get them to laugh and pull over And fortunately it worked. Now, realizing that she was 17, the Adventist, and pretty religious. I don't know how that worked, but she probably didn't understand the joke, so that's why that one was OK. But yeah, we started dating And I was introduced to Seventh-day Adventism through her and her family. I remember early we were doing we always did like family worship on Friday nights with her family. I thought it was weird, whatever, i didn't care, and it was fine. We did the worship and then we went out and had our day And then I started going to church with her on Saturdays, which again I thought was strange, but I didn't know any different. So what? she explained it to me as to why it made sense. So I was fine with it And back then I was really easy going. I bodybuilding changed that quite a bit, but back then, yeah, i just went with the flow And things were super easy And everything that I didn't know about religion because I didn't have a huge background in it outside of the very basics, the Bible stories he teach in Sunday school and stuff like that. Outside of that I really didn't know much. And to me, nicole, was she knew everything. Even if she didn't, she knew way more than I did. She basically, over the years, decades, she became religion for me. Everything that I knew came from her. Everything that I wanted to know, i would ask her instead of trying to figure it out for myself. So yeah, all my religion, all of God, came from her.

Speaker 1: 24:12

What did you think about that? What did you think about God, as you're being reintroduced as a young man?

Speaker 2: 24:18

Mostly the same. Like I said, i knew he loved me, but again, he loves everybody. Okay, i'm everybody, you're a part of everybody. So I guess that includes me. But we never really talked about it in depth like that, because I was going to church on Saturdays regularly, i was doing the worships regularly, i was paying attention in church, so I was trying to listen and trying to pick some stuff up here and there. But that's about as far as I went. Yeah, i never really got too deep. I do remember way back as a kid I would go to church events with my cousins, but that was Sunday church events, but there wasn't a whole lot of God being talked about Then. It was just mostly like youth group overnight lock-ins and stuff like that.

Speaker 1: 25:20

So, as you and her are getting closer, how long did you date before you got married?

Speaker 2: 25:29

2005? Five years? No, i guess closer to three, because we started at 97. Got married in 2000. That was three Yeah.

Speaker 1: 25:43

And by that time were you, you had been visiting and going to church with her. Did you consider yourself like a spiritual person by then, Or how did you place it in your mind?

Speaker 2: 25:57

I didn't consider myself anything as far as that was concerned. I figured I was just a normal guy Go to church on normal, in the sense of going to church on Saturday. I just figured, yeah. So yeah, i go to church Just like most people do. And we do this thing on Sabbath, on Saturdays, where we just hang out and take naps all day, and I was cool with that because I like taking naps. So, yeah, i guess I didn't really consider myself spiritual or unspiritual, or I just figured I was.

Speaker 1: 26:36

You're like, I'm just a normal dude, but I take naps on Saturday.

Speaker 2: 26:40

Exactly, i'm a normal dude, but I go to church on Saturday and then we take naps. Perfect, yep.

Speaker 1: 26:47

I love it. How was it going? How was the marriage going like in the first few years?

Speaker 2: 26:53

Awesome And to be honest, it was awesome The whole 20 up until the point 22 years there was. We started arguing more towards after year 20, the arguments would be worse, but before then any disagreement we talked through and came to a mutual agreement on stuff And I think I could count the number of blowout arguments on one hand in 20-ish years. Yeah, the death stuff doesn't make any sense at all because our marriage was pretty solid.

Speaker 1: 27:46

Yeah, so you tell me, however you want to talk to me if you want to jump into the death stuff or how life was just going for you through these years. We'll just get the death stuff over, because Because you got to get to the life stuff.

Speaker 2: 28:04

That's right, i guess it started. I started talking to this lady from church who was a friend of my wife's And we were all friends And she was into working out and lifting and competing. Her husband was, too, not so much competing but working out and lifting, and we were just friends. Nothing inappropriate, nothing like that. And then I don't know if she was having some issues with her husband at home and decided to talk to me about it And I was just like with the bodybuilding stuff and feeling good that I was important. I was somebody saw that or somebody acted like I was important, So it piqued my interest, It made me feel That's another catchphrase It made me feel a certain kind of way And after that conversation I would talk to her more And we had just talked about stuff that We had just talked back and forth And it was mostly mundane stuff. But every time I talked to her I would feel bad But I would squash it quick because I don't know. I don't know why I did.

Speaker 1: 29:39

You're a good guy. You want to be a good guy. At what point did you know I probably shouldn't be having this depth of a conversation with this person? Was that pretty early on, Or was it before you knew it, Because you said you felt bad about it? When did you start thinking maybe this is not it?

Speaker 2: 30:05

I guess I felt bad about it when the conversation turned sexual. I felt bad about it And I knew that wasn't something I should be doing. But I just feel, like every other sin, you can't stop, you don't want to, but there's just something about it that sucks you back in.

Speaker 1: 30:34

It's attachment. It makes you feel good. You do something, and then there's this reward. To get that reward again, you have to do it again. But if it's the same level of conversation, it's not the same reward. It has to go a little further the next time for the same reward that you had the first time. It's just how it works, right. You can't keep going out of the way of it.

Speaker 2: 31:06

Yes and no, i guess. To me it felt like as long as it was just over text message, it wasn't as bad as it could be. I was fine with the level of what you call reward, without anything else, without upping it the next time, and I was fine with that for a while and then I guess I wasn't. Then I got upped And it was awful. And when I say upped, it wasn't, we didn't. I don't know how rated you want to be on this one, but we didn't do. We didn't go all the way because I didn't want to. That was. I wanted to get the excitement but I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to do that and I didn't want to kiss her. I just wanted to use her for what I could get and what I wanted, and that included pictures and talking and that kind of thing. And when I was done, i was done and I felt horrible when I was done And I just pushed it down and just kept going.

Speaker 1: 32:36

I wanted to take a quick break right now to tell you to share this episode with a friend. That is how the gospel has been getting spread. We are sharing these episodes around and there's so much life in each one of them. So ask God to bring the person in mind that you should share this with, and I just believe he's going to do it. So share this episode with a friend and let's keep telling people how good God is and how he has freed us from sin. Let's get back into the episode. Was there like when you were feeling awful? did you try to make a plan? this is how I'll get out of this, or you're just like man, this I'm feeling terrible.

Speaker 2: 33:25

I did. Yeah, i. There were several times where I said I can't do this, i feel horrible, i'm going to stop her and I'm not going to talk to you anymore. We're not going to, this is done, it's over with. And that would last four, five months, six months, and then I'd be sitting at work and we get some downtime quite a bit, depending on what station you're at And I get bored and I would message her up and ask how she's doing, and then it would just start all over again until it peaked and I crossed, i went beyond talking and then I felt horrible again And then I would I don't want to say let's break it off, i didn't want to talk to her anymore. And then doing that made me feel horrible too, because obviously I was just using this person and using her for my gratification and dumping her off when I was when I couldn't handle it anymore.

Speaker 1: 34:39

Were you still attending church at this time and still like what was the spiritual life like at this time?

Speaker 2: 34:48

None of that changed. Well, we were still going to church. It's a horrible coping mechanism that firefighters develop after years and years. Seeing the stuff that we see, we can just push it away, push the images, the calls that we go on. We see some the worst of the worst. Everybody that we see on a medical call is having the worst day of their entire lives, whether somebody dies or somebody is dying and we need to do CPR or car accidents, everything. We see all that stuff all the time, and the coping mechanism that unfortunately, most of us use is compartmentalization. So I was very good at being able to take all of the bad, all of the horrible things that either I've seen through work or have done through my private personal life. I was able just to shove those in its own compartment and not think about them until I wanted to.

Speaker 1: 36:17

Compartmentalizing makes dealing with guilt easier, because you're just that's in this section of my life and that doesn't mess with this section over here.

Speaker 2: 36:27

They're two completely different people. I, you know one person at work on the job dealing with a death, dealing with having to do CPR on some poor parent's kid, or whether it's the secret stuff that I'm ashamed of that I'm doing in my downtime.

Speaker 1: 36:55

That doesn't seem sustainable Turns out.

Speaker 2: 36:59

It's not, no, it's a bad deal. And yeah, it is not sustainable. And I wanted to quit at least one of those things, and I knew which one I had to quit, but I couldn't. I'm not going to quit my job, But so that only leaves the other thing to quit. But as hard as I tried, i couldn't do it. And yeah, i wanted to quit. I tried lots of times, couldn't do it.

Speaker 1: 37:32

So what happened?

Speaker 2: 37:38

Well, yeah, what happened?

Speaker 1: 37:48

And I just want to make sure we understand something. right now We're talking about old Ben.

Speaker 2: 37:57

We are talking about old Ben. He's dead and gone. That's a.

Speaker 1: 38:01

And I know it's heavy, because there there's godly sorrow, but he's dead. No, yeah, we know that.

Speaker 2: 38:10

He's absolutely dead, but it's still difficult because for sure, He yeah, he's dead and gone, but he still did it. It still happened And it's awful. It feels awful. I hate thinking about it. I, in fact, I didn't even want to do this podcast. I knew that it was probably going to come around, just from talking to Eddie and like most of these stories that I'm hearing on on on your podcast, were like mine In one way or another And I was just dreading the day that it would happen.

Speaker 1: 38:50

But when you would hear those stories, even if they were dreadful. how did those hit you? Did they even if you knew they were dreadful and you knew, man, I have a story were used. Sounds like you were encouraged by them because you've listened to every episode except for the Bible draft episode.

Speaker 2: 39:08

Yeah, no, i'll get to that later. But yeah, they were very encouraging and I had never heard an episode outside of freedom. I didn't know about any of this stuff until a year ago a little over a year, but, like I was saying, i didn't even want to do this podcast, but after freedom I had realized that I need to. There needs to be some good to come out of this and I prayed that I would be able, i would be given a chance to to expand God's kingdom, plant seeds and help other people that had been through something like this. I wanted to be able to help somebody through something like this if it happened to them through my story. And there's one of those things where you pray for it and then the next day Eddie calls up and says, hey, when you're ready to do a podcast, crap. So, yeah, god called me out the next day and say we are like well, i don't think that Eddie and I are in agreement with so much stuff.

Speaker 1: 40:26

I don't think Eddie and I talked about you being on the podcast.

Speaker 2: 40:30

Really, i just knew, and I just knew, and I think maybe he had mentioned something to your wife. Yeah, he had talked to her and that's probably another reason why I figured it was coming. But yeah, very next day God presented that opportunity and I figured dang it if he's calling me out on it, so I suppose I better do it, because I remembered the Jonah in the whale story and it didn't work out so great for Jonah to not do what God was wanting him to do.

Speaker 1: 41:01

I want to make sure you know this and I know this. You don't have to be on this podcast and it isn't a Jonah type thing in the sense that unless God is like hey, man do it, then we do it and we know that and we trust him and I don't think I ever had that experience until I was telling my own story And I was like, oh, I'm not sure I like this and I get why people get on here and it's tough because it wasn't fun saying all the terrible ways I was a husband. That's not fun. But then when I remember, you know what The story is about the two. It's not death to death, it's death. and then we see what happened to get to the life. So, yeah, you're struggling. You're trying real hard just because we've heard so many people. There's something about it. When we're trapped in it, It really is like a trap and you desperately want out. There doesn't seem to be a solution.

Speaker 2: 42:08

So not really finding a solution and not really being able to quit on my own, because even then, before freedom, i would ask God for help to get through or to quit doing this. I knew God had played a part in it, i just didn't know how to make it work. So, yeah, i would pray for it, pray to not contact her. I would pray to change.

Speaker 1: 42:42

This wasn't happening.

Speaker 2: 42:43

And so my wife found out, and that had come after a series of other events that made her question my faithfulness. So she already had an idea that I wasn't doing, i was up to no good, but other I was only unfaithful with this one person. In my actions of talking to her and stuff, i never really talked to anybody else. I would see women all the time at the gym and they would talk to me and they always want to know how to lose weight or whatever, and that was the extent of my interaction with any other female. But my wife didn't think that was the case And so anyway she found out and it was horrible, worst day of my life. I ended up going to my parents' house sleeping on their air mattress for a couple of weeks, still trying to function at work. Nicole was nice enough to continue to talk to me and try to work through things and try to work it out, but up until that point I had mentioned earlier that Nicole was. She was basically my god. Everything I knew about religion came from her. Everything I loved was her. My priority was her, then God, then family, then myself, and she was up on a pedestal that she never should have been on, but I didn't know that. I thought I was being a good husband by putting his wife so high in importance, and when that was gone it was. I was just lost, completely lost. I didn't know. I had nothing at that point. And again, i still believe in God and I prayed and prayed, but I don't know. It just didn't feel like anything was working. And then so I'm just complete. At this point My life is just shattered. All I can think is negative thoughts. I can get stark Like my kid. I'm never going to be able to see my kids And the person I love most in the entire world hates me. And I've got nothing. I got nothing left. So then the things just get really dark. I'm at work I remember, balled up on my bed Luckily we had our own rooms at that station because I was fetal position, ugly crying, just praying that we wouldn't get a call because there's no way that I could function. My job is to drive the fire engine And it's hard to see the straight when your white penteers out of your eyes, and all of that. Luckily we didn't get any calls at any super crucial point like that. But so here I am, fetal position, crying, trying to figure out okay. So I hate myself. I destroyed the one person that I love most in the world, basically my God, my idol. I've just destroyed her completely And I know that if I just jump off a bridge or whatever, that all that's going to do is cause more pain, more stress financially for her, because she's not going to get any of my work benefits. So that's just going to cause more problems if I do that. So I figure out backstory. People on car accident scenes never slow down. They never slow down. They never pay attention. If we have an accident on highway two, a pretty good sized highway through Lincoln, people are going to be ripping past it 40 miles an hour And there's a lot of semis on highway two And basically the entire department is just waiting for it's not a matter of if somebody gets hit, it's just when. Just because people don't pay attention, they're either gawking at the accident scene or they're in too much of a hurry to get to work, so they're not paying attention. It wouldn't be anything for me to be on an accident scene and step out in front of a semi. So that way I'd be gone, Wife would be taken care of financially, kids would be taken care of financially because it'd be on line of duty death. And that's where my head was at And that's as low as it got. Thank God, because my next shift was a Saturday. I'm at work And just waiting for somebody to crash on highway two or something like that, just waiting and This guy from church Calls me out of the blue. I don't know this guy. His name is Joe band Vanduhr Hoven.

Speaker 1: 48:27

So, and then Hoven Joe Vanden, they didn't know, there you go, there you go.

Speaker 2: 48:31

I was partly right, he. I was looking into getting into some men's groups because I knew I needed God, i knew I needed something, so I was look calling around for men's groups to be a part of, to help, because I was broken, i need fixed. That's what I do. I fixed stuff And I was the biggest thing that was broken. I Like I said I got that call from Joe and he said how are you doing? Told him honestly which is really weird for me instead of saying now I'm good, i just told him. I said I'm not doing good and this is why. And he said okay, i Like to talk to you tomorrow and I'd like you to meet a friend of mine. His name is Eddie and I Think he could help you out tomorrow. From then was Mother's Day, sunday, may 8th, and and I'm thinking One, this guy doesn't know me to Why does he want to talk to me on Mother's Day? Because he's got half kids and this Eddie's guys got half kids and a wife. I just thought it was weird and Unfortunately I didn't have anything going on Mother's Day that year. I just said, yeah, fine, well, meet you, i'll meet up with you guys and whatever there's. Like I said, i don't have anything else going on. Um, so We meet at bagels and Joe on Mother's Day. The place is crowded. I bring no book pencil. I'm ready to, ready to learn, ready to get fixed because, honestly, truthfully, i didn't want the other option, but again, i didn't know any other. I didn't have any other clues, any other ideas. So Joe and and he come in and and It's just. It was Amazing. The first, i mean I've never really recognized Miracles in my life. I've never been able to talk to God, like you hear people say. And I Didn't recognize it as a miracle until After freedom, by that phone call of Joe calling when I was at my absolute lowest out of the blue. Guy didn't even know. First miracle that that I can, that I ever can think of, and then the fact that I talked to Joe on the phone for Probably two hours, hour and a half, and we didn't get one call. Saturdays are Usually pretty steady during the day, a lot of people running around doing stuff. So to go hour and a half or so without a call on A Saturdays is pretty unusual. That was a second miracle and I didn't notice that Until after freedom. Sorry, i'm gdd jumping around all over the house, good man I look, hopefully you guys can keep up Um.

Speaker 1: 51:51

What did what at bagels and Joe what? how did the conversation start? I?

Speaker 2: 51:55

wish I could tell you It was. I remember Eddie was talking about Romans 6, that's. I think that's where he started. Joe didn't really say a whole lot, but Eddie was hammered on Roman 6 and I don't know what he said specifically, but I do remember him saying something about God loving me. I don't remember if I said, yeah, but he loves everybody, but I remember it thinking wait, a second, wait a second, wait a second stuff. You mean God loves me, not me as part of everybody else, but Ben, walk and show God loves Me. He died for Me. My sins, what I did, he took those from ban. And I do remember asking him that and he was like, yeah, it's exactly what he did. And That realization. Changed everything, everything changed after I had realized that I, i guess after I realized that I was special. Yeah, and you know, we talked. See, we were there for two hours three hours and, like I said, i'm an introvert talking to anybody for that long. It's crazy for me. I don't think I've ever talked to anybody that long. Just, i mean, he's just feeding me all these truths that I I had no idea were Even in the Bible. Yeah, i mean I never looked for that kind of stuff on my own. I never tried to have a intimate relationship with God on my own. I never listened for his voice. I Just didn't know any of that stuff even existed. So it just it blew my mind that Not only did it does it exist, but it's right there in the Bible, black and white. All you got to do is read it and if you believe one thing about the Bible or Two things about the Bible. You believe those are true, then everything has to be true, or else it all just falls apart.

Speaker 1: 54:23

Hmm.

Speaker 2: 54:23

So yeah, that's, that's.

Speaker 1: 54:27

So you walked away from this meeting at bagels and Joe and the takeaway. Do you remember if Eddie shared his backstory with you?

Speaker 2: 54:37

And not at that point. No, i didn't know his backstory at that point when we were wrapping up talking, he had, he had given me, like the website to his Underground original Backstory Recordings or whatever. And then at the end He's he asked me so Let's ask God to reveal what's in your heart, or whatever, and We, we pray. And then Eddie asks that you know, reveal whatever, whatever Ben's hung up on, or or what lies he's believing, and And then he stops talking And then I hear silence. Well, i didn't realize that we were listening for God to Interject, because I was new, i've never done that before During a prayer, so I didn't know that I was listening for God. All I could think of was breakfast burritos, because I saw a sign at taco John's on the way up to bagels and Joe for breakfast burritos and I thought that sounded awesome. Then I heard reggae music and then I Realized that was the music that was playing in in bagels and Joe at the time. So Eddie asks me what? so what did God say? And I'm thinking, oh crap, was God was supposed to be saying something? and I told him well, all I heard was breakfast burritos and reggae music. And when Eddie's done laughing. He took a quick listen and overhead, at the at the Bagel shop they were playing Bob Marley's Three little birds or the chorus I think that's the name of the song. The chorus is everything is gonna be alright. And he pointed that out and And I just I lost it. I'd never heard from God before. I'd never heard from God before, i'd never Didn't know that God talks to people like he did in the Bible. But yet here he is. I don't know where the burrito part came from, but the the song was everything's gonna be alright, was the chorus.

Speaker 1: 56:57

And Don't worry about a thing.

Speaker 2: 57:01

Yeah, that's the one. That was it. I'm glad you something it cuz I was gonna, i was thinking about it but I decided not to. But, yeah, god spoke to me through music and Mind was blown. It still is, you know I. I knew that that was God at that moment, i knew That every everything just came together in that moment where, you know, i realized that this guy calls me out of nowhere and Brings this other guy that I've never seen before, talked to, before heard of, and he's knows exactly what, you know, I was thinking and what was going through my head and was able to Tell me all of this stuff about me and, at the end of it, all God talks to me and. How could you not be different after something like that? and so When we were done, like I said, i was balling. I'm sure Eddie was too, but I was. And then the hug in this guy, which I'm not a hugger. And so me and this guy are standing up in the middle of the crowded bagels and Joe on Mother's Day, crying and hugging and It was pretty awesome. And ever since that day, my life has been just radically different. I've realized, and so a lot of the stuff that I've learned or started to learn on that day I've slowly been understanding more and more as I listen to your podcasts, as I listen to the Bible studies, as I read books Rich, i've read probably eight books in the last six months, which is probably six times the amount of books that I've read my entire life before that.

Speaker 1: 59:10

You know what books have you been reading?

Speaker 2: 59:13

Well, no longer I.

Speaker 1: 59:18

My man Jake. I love Jake.

Speaker 2: 59:20

Yeah, free from sin.

Speaker 1: 59:22

Jonathan, seventh day, sabbath, yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:25

Side note, i got to meet him the other a few weeks ago. I went to one of his church services when I was in Hawaii with my wife. You cool dude, like the first service that that I did not not off once. So that was alright, let's see if God is real. Why isn't this working was another book I read, and That one was huge for both me and my life. That was a good one. I recommend that one to people.

Speaker 1: 59:50

I just got that one just came into my house two weeks ago. I hadn't read it yet, and it's been on this podcast several times. So, I just started reading it. Did you read the hidden half of the gospel I?

Speaker 2: 1:00:01

Have not started that one yet.

Speaker 1: 1:00:03

No, that's that one's next, though, but yeah, when you leave this restaurant, you know that there's something different, that you've understood something different, but you didn't know exactly. Or did you know? you're like I'm loved by God. I been, am loved. How long was it before you spoke to your wife? I?

Speaker 2: 1:00:25

I Spoke to her that day I remember having it she had the kids because I Was in Lincoln. I had just gotten off work that morning that's Sunday morning when I had talked to Eddie and Joe. So I was pretty cautious with it because I knew that I was different. I knew I felt different. I knew I felt great, better than I felt in a very long time. But I also knew that if I a Acted like I felt she's gonna be pissed. So I kind of I kind of low keyed the the freedom part and how good I felt.

Speaker 1: 1:01:17

Everything's gonna be alright yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:01:20

Bob Marley talked to me, no, and then that was until She found her freedom, which I'll let her tell her own story. but I mean, she didn't like that I was doing well, understandably, and so That that made things difficult when I realized that I Don't have to worry about you, the things that are going on in my life, all I've got to do is keep my eye on Jesus. that I want to figure that out. It's just made things so much easier.

Speaker 1: 1:02:01

Was that last year's Mother's Day?

Speaker 2: 1:02:05

That was Mother's Day 2022.

Speaker 1: 1:02:08

Yeah, Man, it feels like way longer because I feel like I've seen you on these Bible studies and it feels like I've been seeing you for a long time because it seems like you've been around for a long time.

Speaker 2: 1:02:23

Yeah, no, i've been hitting, I've been trying to do all of the ones that I could, because I just some of them are repetitive. But I have never walked away from a Bible study, a podcast, anything, without gaining something, even if it's just a little bit of better understanding of what happened to the freedom, better understanding of that, or whatever So. I mean I've been around kind of just lurking with the camera off and trying to pick up that grain here and there.

Speaker 1: 1:03:02

But yeah, what were you learning at first? I don't know how long after this meeting you started listening to the podcast or showing up to the Bible studies. I remember hearing Eddie told me that he administered to somebody. What did you start picking up just theologically about Oh, this is what freedom from sin is. And did you get that from the podcast or from the Bible studies? Talk to me about that.

Speaker 2: 1:03:25

I got it. I got the understanding of freedom from a combination of the podcast and the Bible studies and the reading that I was doing. I went into all that stuff hard because I saw that this was it, This was, this is what I needed The freedom, the relationship with Christ. I realized that this is what I have to have, and not just for my marriage but for me. And so I guess, to answer the question, I just you know I'm picking up stuff from everywhere. Dan Moller, I heard you talk about him, So I looked him up and listened to it And Eddie's got some energy. But yeah, happy to hear He's got some good stuff to say. And so you know, picking up stuff from the room and just reading the Bible on my own Another thing that I've never done before, really And not just that, but actually understanding it And we do these devotional plans. Like every night we'll do devotional plans And I get stuff from them once in a while that really stand out, so I get understanding of freedom from all different kinds of places.

Speaker 1: 1:05:02

Really, yeah, So describe this last year as you've been growing. We'll let your wife tell her part of the story. but you're still married, seems, sounds like We are still married.

Speaker 2: 1:05:17

We actually I mentioned taking her to Hawaii while we were in Hawaii. I had not while we were in Hawaii, but I mean before that we bought her a new wedding ring because she had like the old one anymore, which I totally get. So we got her a new wedding ring And when we were in Hawaii I gave that to her And I had. You know, i thought back before we left I had been planning this trip for probably six to eight months. Shortly after I got freedom, i knew I had to do something to start over everything In planning out this trip. I thought back to all the things that I didn't do right, and so one of those things was actually talking to her dad and getting his blessing in person. So I did that and which turned out awesome. It sounds weird, but I never really had much of a conversation with my father-in-law until that morning took him out to breakfast and talked to him and got his blessing to remarry his daughter And I, the first time I asked her to marry me. You know I was a feeble attempt at it And it was kind of cheesy, not the way that I would have done it had I known better. So you know, i took her to Hawaii and did it on the beach there at sunset, and we had a new not really a new wedding, but a new, like a what do they call it? A vow renewal, the thing, all of these things that I had felt that got screwed up, screwed up. I had done over And I, since I was new and she was new, i wanted our marriage to be new. So, yes, we're still married and we really did our bows and we're really doing much better than you would expect.

Speaker 1: 1:07:38

Yeah, man, did you think that was ever a possibility? when you're considering, you're like, if I get a highway to crash today, did you see this outcome?

Speaker 2: 1:07:50

No, no, i didn't. All I saw was all I saw was pain, suffering, sadness, misery. I didn't see any possibility of anything good, which is why I was at the state that I was.

Speaker 1: 1:08:11

What do you know for sure to be true about yourself? now that you've received this truth? What do you know to be true about that?

Speaker 2: 1:08:24

I know that God loves Ben and it doesn't matter if he is a champion bodybuilder or just anybody. God loves Ben Wockenshaw and that he thinks that I'm special.

Speaker 1: 1:08:54

Last night I was having some dinner with some friends and we were talking about how, before freedom, if we heard of somebody cheating on their spouse, i guess some would look with disgust, some would look with disdain, some would look with pity but not the pity like, oh, my heart breaks for you, but how could you be caught? How could you let that happen? And then, as we have received freedom in our lives, like I said I've said this before I never could understand how someone could do something like that. And now I can completely understand how. Not so because it's because I know what deception is like because, of the deception that was in my life. I know what it's like to be deceived. I know what it's like to make little micro decisions that turn into something terrible, by not thinking about how you're thinking or not taking every thought captive, or even believing any thought that comes into your mind. And so I know what deception is like. And so, because I know what deception is like, how can I look at anybody who is deceived with anything but just my heart going out to them and I just want to grab them and just say my man, my sister, can I tell you what's true about you? Can I tell you that your circumstance does not have to be your identity? Can I tell you that you are special? Can I tell you that you are set apart? Can I tell you that you have been reconciled And it's? and we finished our conversation last night at dinner with this idea that the gospel allows us to look at people for who they actually are, even if they're not behaving, and and who they actually are and our heart breaks for them and we are like we're just dying for them to know who they are, because if they do, if they find out that Ben is loved by God, then it's gonna change their life. Oh yeah it's gonna change their life. So let me ask you this, and then we'll wrap it up man. If one of your brothers in the fire department, if you happen upon him and he's in that same fetal position that you were in and and really just in his mind there's no answer. either He's messed up his marriage, or he's messed up a relationship, or like his circumstances are pointing to him like there's only one answer and that answer is to end his own life. What would you tell this guy? What would you try to just speak over him?

Speaker 2: 1:11:49

Knowing what I know now and what worked and clicked in my head, i would tell him, i would make sure that they understood how much they're loved, even if they don't feel like it, how much how special they are, even if they don't understand it and how much God loves them, not as a part of the world, but him as himself.

Speaker 1: 1:12:23

That's that unconditional love. when we receive it, it changes lives, changes lives. Man, ben, i've been always wondering about your story because I see you and I'm when I see you pop up on the screen at the Bible said I'm like man, he's about it. I like, i'm so honored to hear the story, man, and it is a blessing to me and you are a testimony that God is love man. So thank you so much for sharing. I know part of it wasn't fun, but hey, man, it's a blessing and a testimony to me Now.

Speaker 2: 1:13:00

Rich, i appreciate it and you're a blessing doing God's work. I know that everybody that's listening to you is getting something out of you, and I'm gonna speak for everybody when we say thank you, we appreciate you.

Speaker 1: 1:13:14

Praise the Lord, brother, thank you. It's only you. It's only me Waking up to your memory. Your love is all I need. It's only you, it's only me Waking up to your memory. Your love is all I need. I feel it. I feel it Giving me life.

Speaker 2: 1:14:17

Giving me life, i feel it. Giving me life. Giving me life Fast, straight, fast, broken, bad I've been used, never fit, experienced I, i saw the power.

Speaker 1: 1:14:40

You paid it off. I was blinded. Out of gold, out of gold, okay, okay, okay. Try to see what the world has scheduled for me.

Speaker 2: 1:14:52

Now I know your ways are better for me And you are. I find rest is complete Now, when I was completely yeah, yeah, yeah, In the middle of the storm.

Speaker 1: 1:15:03

I faced it On the nights. I thought I wouldn't make it. Every time I lay it down, you'll take it In the middle of the storm, heart-brazing, on the nights, i thought I wouldn't make it Every time I lay it down, you'll take it.

Speaker 2: 1:15:26

I feel it Giving me life, giving me life, giving me life. I feel it Giving me life, giving me life, giving me life.