#122 Beyond Betrayal: Nichole's Triumph Over Infidelity and Rediscovery of Faith

Summary: Join us as we dive into Nichole's life-changing journey, where she faced deep brokenness, betrayal, and a crisis of faith. In the midst of turmoil caused by her husband's infidelity, Nichole bravely explores forgiveness, even for the other woman. Through her struggles with anger and the pursuit of healing, she witnesses her husband's spiritual transformation, ultimately leading to her own redemption.

Nichole's powerful story showcases how God can turn our heartbreaks into blessings. Discover the inspiring tale of forgiveness, guidance through challenging relationships, and the transformative power of faith. Her unique perspective on finding peace in unexpected places will leave you moved and inspired. Don't miss this incredible journey from pain and betrayal to forgiveness, peace, and transformation through the good Gospel.

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TimeStamps:
0:00 - Transformation and Freedom Through the Gospel
6:21 - Marriage, Self-Esteem, and Relationship Challenges
16:57 - Body Image and Motherhood Struggles
26:49 - Betrayal and Infidelity
35:32 - Betrayal, Forgiveness, and Moving Forward
45:21 - Seeking Spiritual Transformation and Finding Hope
54:24 - Navigating Infidelity and Healing
1:01:02 - Divine Intervention and Transformation
1:04:12 - Discovering Forgiveness and Finding Peace
1:15:02 - Seeking God's Guidance in Difficult Relationships
1:22:51 - Healing and Ministering Through Personal Testimony

Keywords: Brokenness, Betrayal, Faith struggles, Infidelity, Self-esteem, Transformation, Freedom, Forgiveness, Anger, Healing, Spiritual journey, Redemption.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:35

The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life.

Speaker 2: 0:55

That same night that I found out, my son looked at me and he said mom, god forgives dad, I forgive dad and you can forgive dad too. That kind of stuck with me and I'm like can I forgive him? Then I learned, I read and I felt that the Holy Spirit was telling me you not forgiving is pride.

Speaker 1: 1:23

Yo, welcome to the death to life podcast. My name is Richard Young and today's episode is with Nicole. Want to talk about Nicole a little bit. She's married to last week's guest, ben, and if you heard Ben's story, you heard how wild that is. And now we hear it from the other side and I love her heart. This was not easy this whole last year, but she is a testimony and a blessing and I'm sure you will be encouraged to hear from her. So buckle up, strap in, let's get to her story. Love y'all, appreciate y'all. So yeah, where your husband's story started, he's got a different background than you and I. But where does your story do you feel? Where does it start?

Speaker 2: 2:20

Yeah, so I am. I come from a large family. There are six kids in my family and I am number three of six and grew up in an Adventist home, so going to church every week and in an Adventist school, raised in Minnesota. At the end of my sophomore year of high school, my parents moved us to Lincoln, so I've been in Lincoln a really long time. Went to College View Academy my last two years of high school and then went to Union and graduated from Union in 2000.

Speaker 1: 2:50

So who was God? As you were growing up, you said you came from a religious background or you grew up in the church. Who was God?

Speaker 2: 2:59

God to me. I knew that God loved me and I knew that I loved God. I was also very afraid of God. I was very afraid of not living up to, just like. I hear a lot of people in the Seventh-day Oneness Church on your podcast talk about feeling like they're not living up to, not good enough. Sometimes you got to make sure you follow all the 10 commandments, or that's it. I just believed I had to work really hard to maintain my good, strong status with God.

Speaker 1: 3:33

Were you somewhat afraid.

Speaker 2: 3:36

I was very afraid. I was afraid of doing things wrong. I was afraid of when God comes back. Am I going to be going to heaven? You read things in the Bible about the 144,000 and at that age and whatnot, I think my parents would just try to explain to me don't be afraid, there's nothing to be afraid about. But I didn't really understand what that meant and I didn't really understand how not to be afraid. I just was so worried that I wasn't going to get to heaven.

Speaker 1: 4:06

So how did you reconcile that? You just thought God was just a scary guy, and so the answer was to get your life right.

Speaker 2: 4:13

To get my life or just stay close to him, trust him. So I guess into my adulthood my goal was just to do devotionals and pray and keep going to church and doing all the things just to stay close to him so that I wouldn't veer too far away from him. How was that going? Pretty well, I think. I met Ben and we got married and had kids and, of course, raising kids and you want them to know God, you want them to know the Bible, you want them to just know what he has in store for you. So I felt like I really tried hard. I took them to church we have family worship on Friday nights just reading Bible stories to them, just really trying to teach them anything that I personally knew that I could to teach them about God. And so they had a good handle, a good base of who he was, and I also didn't want them to fear God like I did.

Speaker 1: 5:14

Yeah, so talk to me about when you meet Ben. What was that like?

Speaker 2: 5:20

We were, I think, 17 years old. It was like in 1995. Me and my friends that I had met at school, here at College View Academy. They welcomed me in pretty well and we used to go cruising O Street I don't know if you're familiar with that we talked about it in his episode and I just love that.

Speaker 1: 5:40

somewhere in the podcast universe we talk about cruising O Street. I'm just very happy that we have that. Did you ever?

Speaker 2: 5:48

do it.

Speaker 1: 5:49

You know what, not being from Lincoln and just getting to Lincoln, when I was a freshman in college, I heard about cruising O Street and I didn't have a car and I'm like what is that about? So, no, I probably have never cruised O myself, but have heard of been amazing stories of picking up on the side of the road. Yeah, you have to tell me this when you're cruising O Street and if most people. If you haven't listened to Ben's episode, it's last week's episode and he tells us the story of how you got from your perspective. What was that like when Ben pulls you over to the side of the road? What was that like?

Speaker 2: 6:25

We were downtown and we had come up at the same stoplight. So he was in a vehicle with two of his friends and I was in my vehicle with one of my friends and looked over and waved and said hi, and basically he said, follow us. So that's what you did If you saw someone that you thought you was cute or whatever, you would follow them to a parking lot or somewhere along O Street there and you'd stop and talk, maybe exchange phone numbers, things like that, and so you weren't nervous I'm not really. No, we did this every Saturday night. There were lots of phone numbers being passed around and I didn't know what would come of this. We followed them and they took us to the subway around like 56th and O Street, somewhere around there, and we just talked for a little bit. We exchanged phone numbers and the funny thing was is I didn't hear from him for three months.

Speaker 1: 7:16

Wow. Yeah, out of the blue he finally calls me and I kind of remembered him, kind of not, and so we just started talking and then started going out for dates and shot out to old-fashioned getting to know people, because you have to have some guts to actually ask someone for their number, like when you meet them, and then to actually call them and their parents might answer the phone or something like that. And now you just sneaky follow them on Instagram for two years and then who knows what will happen from there. But so then, right away after those three months, you guys start chitting the chat and coming back.

Speaker 2: 7:57

Chitting the chat. Yep. Our first date was the Dollar Movie Theater Starship. Yeah, I should be.

Speaker 1: 8:05

If anybody who's listening to this knows and has been to Starship, shout out to you because you're a great listener.

Speaker 2: 8:13

So you went to Starship, you saw a movie, keep going Saw a movie, yeah, and then we just from there hit it off and just started dating each other. And well, that was that.

Speaker 1: 8:27

So him not being an Adventist? Did that freak your family out, or did that? What was that like?

Speaker 2: 8:33

Yeah, they were not a fan of that, but they didn't really say much. Actually, they'd asked and I'd say, no, he's not Adventist, but they didn't say much about that. And Ben made it easy in the fact that he would come to Vespers with me occasionally on Friday night and then he would come to church with me on Saturday. Slowly he kept doing more and more with me and the church and my parents liked that and it was also easier that, as far as his spiritual background was, he wasn't committed to any religion or anything like that, so that made it easy as well.

Speaker 1: 9:07

And so almost from an early on it was like written in the stars yeah, you guys were going to get married pretty much.

Speaker 2: 9:12

I remember being at my sister-in-law and brother-in-law's wedding and Ben and I were 19. And I remember knowing at that point that I wanted to marry him, and he was always like, yes, I love you and one day I want to marry you, but let's get through college and make sure that you're graduated and I'm graduated, we have a good career. And so that's what we did. He went to Southeast Community College and did the firefighter thing and I went to Union and did the nursing thing and we graduated. And it was actually October when he proposed and I was graduating in May and then we got married the following August of 2000.

Speaker 1: 9:50

During this time. We pretty much just covered a lot of time. What did God feel about you in your mind and what did you feel about yourself Was like the success of life, making you feel pretty comfortable At that point in my life.

Speaker 2: 10:08

I don't remember thinking about it a whole lot. As far as what does God think of me? I just knew that he loved me because the Bible tells me, and that's what I knew. I didn't really think about it beyond that.

Speaker 1: 10:23

How did you feel about yourself?

Speaker 2: 10:26

My whole life I've had this kind of issue with self-esteem mistrust. I never really liked myself too much. Growing up in an Adventist home, you're sheltered from the world. In some ways that's good, some ways that's bad. But getting to know people, what I say on the outside, outside of this SDA world, you find out there's a lot of movies you don't know. There's a lot of songs you don't know. There's a lot of worldly things you don't know because you grew up in a close, closed-knit environment and sheltered is like a shelter and that's good.

Speaker 1: 11:01

You want to keep your children as innocent as they can be. Then, when the world shows up, it's pretty ugly. There's a lot of things that are pretty ugly and sometimes I think my daughter one time she told us that she knew what the F-word was because my son, john John, was talking about the F-word and she's like John John, like he had put his middle finger up. And she was like no, john, john, don't do that. That stands for the F-word. And I think Natalie was listening to them talking and Natalie was like oh no, she knows what it is. And he said what is the F-word? And she said failure. And so it's sweet that she didn't know, but then at some point, when you find out what life is like, you're like, oh no, yeah, no, I'm glad that it was only failure. That's good, yeah, yeah Of course we kid, but so you felt you didn't know a lot, and so did that have something to do with how you felt about yourself.

Speaker 2: 12:00

Well, it makes you feel insecure, like you're stupid. Sometimes you might feel stupid, or like you just don't know how to fit in sometimes with people. And I would say, even now, as a grown adult, though it doesn't affect me like it did before, but still I'll be like in the operating room and they'll be talking about this movie, that movie, this show, that show, and it's just stuff that I don't watch, and so it makes you feel like an outsider in some senses. That's okay, I don't know what you're talking about, I can't add anything to this conversation. Kind of makes you feel a little self-conscious, sure.

Speaker 1: 12:38

What do you think the root was of? And I don't know if the devil needs a root or anything. He just goes wherever he wants and lies. But what did you feel like the root of your low self-worth or insecurity was?

Speaker 2: 12:55

I remember as a kid just being self-conscious of my looks. I didn't feel like I was attractive. We went to a small school so there weren't a lot of kids to choose from, but I always had crushes on boys and they never liked me back. I was always the friend type of a situation, so I was self-conscious about that, sometimes feeling caught between I wasn't the most popular but I wasn't the least popular Just being stuck in the middle and sometimes not always knowing my role or where I fit in.

Speaker 1: 13:26

I don't know Things like that, yeah it's pretty natural stuff that the enemy just uses wherever he can right. When we're that age, he doesn't need much. And you just feel like you're not enough, even when it isn't even about that. Dealing with that. Getting married what was that like? What was marriage like?

Speaker 2: 13:50

I was super excited. I was beyond thrilled For one. I continued to live with my parents through college and as I graduated and all that, and so I had a curfew. I felt very confined and constrained. So just to be able to get married and move out, I just felt so much freedom. With that, I can stay out as long as I want. I don't ever curfew. I can go where I want. I don't have to tell anybody besides my husband, and more than likely we're doing things together. It was good and we were a Christian couple. I don't remember at what point Ben got married, baptized, but he did get baptized before we had kids. Anyway, it was sometime between 2000 and 2000. We were doing good. We even went to the little church in Fremont, nebraska. That's where we lived for a little while. Yeah, it was good, keep going. What happened? What happened? We were just living life. He was working, I was working, we started having babies, we had three kids, three boys, and life was good. I felt like all was well for a very long time and probably, I guess, in 2016, I started noticing that we were having relationship issues, a lot of issues with communication and just not getting along very well. That's also when I started going to nurse practitioner school. I just thought maybe that was what was going on. I'm still working. I'm still a mom of three boys. I've got this husband who I've always said Ben was needy. I guess that was one thing about our marriage was I always felt like I didn't measure up, I couldn't always meet his needs, and so that was that. But in 2016, we went through some counseling and some things and it was rough going to school and having kids and working. It's not easy and I would say the communication issues would come and go. We'd have issues here and there, but we'd work things out and keep going on and yes, that was that, and we're just raising our boys and trying to do the best we can to be a good Christian family, things like that.

Speaker 1: 16:07

Life comes around right. Three kids, communication life comes around. Was God a part of this? Or would you just come to seek comfort?

Speaker 2: 16:19

Yeah, it was a comfort thing, for sure. Or I did try to maintain a relationship with God. But I felt like to maintain a relationship. It was I will do a devotional when I can, which I wasn't doing that regularly. I wasn't spending time alone with God. I didn't have a secret place, nothing like that. It was just we're going to go to church and I will pray every night and pray every morning. I'll do devotionals when I can. Occasionally, ben and I would do devotionals together. But that was how my relationship with God was. It was I love him and I'm going to try to stay close to him. I didn't know anything about Holy Spirit other than the Trinity right God, the Father, god the Son and the Holy Spirit. I didn't know, and I guess it wasn't stressed to me, that the Holy Spirit lives in me. I didn't know that I can talk to the Holy Spirit, I can hear him speak back to me. It was mostly like I'm just going to stay in touch with God and that was it, not realizing that I do have an advocate here on earth and that he lives in me.

Speaker 1: 17:27

Yeah, no, absolutely so. Keep going with the story.

Speaker 2: 17:35

Yeah, so I graduated in 2019 with my NP and things were going along just the same as ever Just crazy house, raising three kids.

Speaker 1: 17:49

So did life slow down a little bit for you.

Speaker 2: 17:52

No, no, not really. I still was working as a nurse and he was a firefighter. He's gone 24 hours at a time, so a lot of times I was home alone with the boys. There were times where I was just beside myself because these boys are crazy and I just didn't feel like I was a good mom sometimes, and it probably wasn't the best mom at times, but I did my best for what I knew at the time. Sometimes I look back and I think, gosh, what if I did this differently? Or this is how I would have handled it differently in freedom, wishing that I knew then what I know now. But you can't go backwards, so all you can do is move forward. And the good thing is they're still in my home, so I have the privilege of being able to teach them freedom now.

Speaker 1: 18:39

No, absolutely. I think I used to have a low key addiction to thinking about what could have been Like. I would go to sleep at night and I would just oh, this will put me to sleep, I'll just think about what could have happened if I would have really known the gospel. But there's really not a lot of answers in that, and so, while sure we do wish we would have known, maybe it's an exercise and futility to go back there and just try to live that life, move forward in love now.

Speaker 2: 19:11

That's right. Move forward and continue to teach them God's love and what I've learned as an adult here too just teach them all of those things. Yeah, so we were just living life and Ben was doing his bodybuilding thing, and so that was always a point of contention for us a bit. There were women that would come up to Ben all the time oh and we want to know diet and exercise advice, or they wanted to do bodybuilding themselves and they would want to be trained and things like that, and so he found a lot of enjoyment in training people. Growing up he wasn't super athletic or anything, and as an adult, when he got into bodybuilding, this was something that he was good at, that something he was an expert at. That people looked up to him for that. He felt like he could offer something to other people because he knew it all. And that was an issue at times when there were women that wanted to be trained. At first I was like, yeah, that's okay, because I trusted him really well, and there were a couple instances where some red flags went off and so, yeah, so other girls sometimes you can just tell. So, being a nurse and being a mom, you have this gut instinct right. Sure, you know who you can trust, you know who you can't, you know when something's going on. And so there were people that would come in and out of his bodybuilding world that I felt I could trust and there were people that I didn't, and I would let him know and then he would either back off from training them or I'd say no pictures, don't send any, don't let anybody send pictures, progress pictures, before and after, things like that. I don't think that's really necessary, things like that. And so we would slowly set up kind of some ground rules as things progressed like that, and sometimes I would actually help with the training and help with the competitions and things like that by putting their color on and things like that. Sometimes it was something we did together, but anyway, that's a bodybuilding thing. So there was some insecurity that came with that, because I'm not a bodybuilder, I don't have a perfect body. I don't have. I have a mom body, and feeling self-conscious about that was an issue. There were times I just didn't really even want him to see me naked. He'd know that's how self-conscious I was.

Speaker 1: 21:39

Yeah, because the world says this is what beauty is. And if we're judging ourselves by what the world says is beauty, it's, and that's always even changing what the world says is beauty. And so you're setting yourself up for unless you're on the cutting edge of that world and can transform your body in weeks, and then you're just set up to be insecure about how you look. Yeah, because it's not even health, it's not even strength, no, it's vanity, right, very much yeah, it was all vanity.

Speaker 2: 22:19

It's not a healthy sport to diet down to get to a point where you are what 5% body fat or less, and up on stage you're dehydrated, your electrolytes are off, there's so much. You're not even eating vegetables or fruits or anything like that. You're just eating so much protein and it's just not. It's not a healthy sport at all. But it's what he enjoyed and he was good at it and so that's what he did, and he used to do a show every year and then it just got to be too much. For lots of reasons. It was a burnout for me too, because he has to diet. He's got to diet for 12 to 16 weeks and during that time it's not easy for him and so he's grouchy hangry, he's hangry, and then I felt like I couldn't eat what I wanted to eat anyway. It was just a cycle like that every year. So finally we got to the conclusion, okay, you're going to do this every other year maybe, and so he was doing that for a while, and so that improved things for both of us. I think he was less stressed. He was. It's hard to build body mass, hard to build muscle, when you're constantly dieting down every eight months or whatever. It was good for him too. Then he was able to put on some size, he was happy with himself and things like that. Yeah, that was our world for a lot of years.

Speaker 1: 23:38

Man, I felt like for so many years and I still probably struggle against this it hadn't been about being healthy for me, it hadn't been about being strong for me. It was really some bar that I had in my mind, and it's not even a high bar for me. I'm just, I don't want to. I don't want to be crazy out of shape, I want to be. I want to still be able to wear clothes that you know that fit and everything. But then it took a turn and it ended up being that. And so to have a healthy, like you said, you have a mom body and there's this dad bod kind of thing, like if we dad bod is different than a mom bod, because a mom is actually producing life and dads are just like we just get a gut, so it's not the same thing, but we really have to be very careful of what we're believing, thinking, the bar that we're setting for ourselves, because that will take a toll on how we see ourselves and it can get really. It can get really discouraging if we're not set on truth and just I'm going to be healthy because my body is good and I want it to function well so I can keep loving and keep sharing, as for as long as I can.

Speaker 2: 24:59

Right, yeah, I know I was. It probably affected me more than I thought it did. He went to the gym several days a week for a couple of hours at a time and I exercised, but not like that and I didn't eat like he did and I didn't look like he did or like the other women who do this, or several years he did this bodybuilding and I think I was very self conscious about myself and it probably at some point led to some depression that I wasn't aware of. I think yeah, because looking back now, I do think I was depressed and I didn't know it, and whether it was just being super busy and not having time to do things that I really enjoy, coupled with the poor body image, coupled with maybe I'm not the best mom all of that stuff probably led to a little bit of depression.

Speaker 1: 25:54

And you just hit the nail on the head. Just in, brene Brown talks about the way that shame attacks women, and shame attacks women through body image and mothering. That's what she says and I think if you're listening to the podcast for any amount of time, you'll hear the stories, and so much of it is shame based on mothering and body image. And the problem is we can't go to truth whenever, like tomorrow. If I get on the scale to find out something about myself, what is true about me, let me step on the scale. If I don't like what it says me running to truth, then maybe it'll help. But we use truth as a oh. This will help me feel better rather than living from truth.

Speaker 2: 26:48

Exactly yeah, and I'm just glad that I know the truth now, because I do. I'm not going to say that I have a fabulous outlook on my body and things like that, but I do accept it a lot easier now. I know that this is the body that God gave me and I am healthy and he I did amazing things with his body. I carried three boys and gave birth in, and as long as I stay healthy because I think it's important to stay healthy I'm good with that.

Speaker 1: 27:20

So from that, the body building, the life is going and going. What happened next?

Speaker 2: 27:26

So there is actually. There is this one day. It was a Thursday, and we actually had been having communication issues again, and we had set up to go talk to our counselor again, and so we had an appointment on that Friday. Thursday, I walked into the gym and I rounded the corner after I put my things away in my locker and just happened to this lady. I didn't know, didn't think much of it initially. I walked up to them, though, and she just had a different look on his face, and she barely looked at me. She made quick eye contact and then put her head down to the floor and would not look at me. No one said a word, he didn't introduce me, it was just silence, and I didn't know what to say. I didn't know what to do. I was like my heart was racing and I was immediately upset, but I didn't know what to say, and I just said okay, I'm here, I'm just letting you know, I'm here at the gym, I'm here to work out. I just wanted to say hi, I'm going to go work out now, and so I left, and then I went into this area where I work out, and I was working out, and then he came a couple minutes later and I couldn't understand why I was so upset. He's just like I don't know why you're so upset. I'm like you didn't introduce me or anything. I forgot her name, I didn't know her name, and so that led to a whole bunch of questions and anger and frustration and hurt and things like that, and so I was pissed. I was pissed off the whole day. Can I say that word? I'm sorry? Say whatever you want. Okay, so I've got a lot of stuff going through my head. And then the next day we were going to be at the counselor's office. So I'm like I'm just going to talk to her about it, because Ben saw there's nothing going on here, but my gut's telling me something different and I bring it up to the counselor and she says Nicole, she was very spiritual. I loved this lady, such a spiritual woman, and she would pray the best prayers over us and things like that. But she was like this could be Holy Spirit telling you something. She said I want you to go home and pray that the Spirit of Truth will reveal truth to you. And I had never heard that before. I'd never heard of Spirit of Truth and I didn't know what Spirit of Truth was. But that's what I did. I went home and I prayed. I said, father, my gut's telling me something here and if my gut's right or not, you know the story. And I said please send the Spirit of Truth to speak to me and show me the truth of what's going on here. So that was on Friday and then the whole weekend, just I felt horrible. I was a mess. We had some kid things to do. So I was doing my best to just lay low and not be too upset with Ben and not arguing in front of the kids and let our kids do their events without any trouble. But all weekend long I felt horrible. And I remember just taking a shower and this overwhelming peeling of just awful mess came over me. And this whole time Ben's telling me look, I don't know why you're so upset. He was denying everything, saying that he would never cheat on me, he wouldn't lie to me, he just didn't introduce me because he didn't know this lady. He was embarrassed, didn't want her to know that, he didn't know her name because they had been talking for a while, apparently. And get through the weekend, and then Monday comes in. I messaged my friend and I said told her what was going on and told her my gut just didn't feel right. And she said, nicole, I got to tell you something. She said I didn't believe this. She says I did not believe this because I did not believe this about Ben. But she said about eight months ago my husband told me that someone told him that Ben was messing around with somebody. Oh, my heart sank and I was parking a parking lot talking to her and I'm like, okay, I had a couple of appointments that afternoon. I'm like, okay, I'm going to go home and I'm going to confront him. And so I canceled my appointments, drove home and I'm like, this is good, because the kid that is still at school, it'll just be he and I, we can hash this out. So I go home and he's napping and I'm like, okay, I'm going to wake him up. So I wake him up and I said I'm going to give you one more chance because, mind you, I had been talking to him all weekend long trying to get something out of him. So I'm going to give you one more chance to tell me what's going on here, because I've got some new information telling me that you are messing around with somebody. And he continued to deny it and didn't deny it, and I'm like I don't know what to do with this information. He's denying it and he's just saying things like oh, maybe someone's pissed off at me, or maybe someone's pissed off at you, or I don't know why someone would say this and people didn't believe it, because Ben always has been very doting on me, he's always been very caring, and I don't know what else to say besides doting. He just dotes on me, right, and so no one believed that about him and that's why she didn't say anything. When she first heard it, she was like there's no way, and so he's denying it and whatnot. And then later that evening I had to have a Zoom meeting with one of the kids doctors, so in order to access the Zoom meeting, I needed his phone, took his phone into my room with my son. We were talking to the doctor and I had looked through his phone that weekend and I didn't find anything. So I was like, ah, I'm not going to find anything, I'm just going to look one more time though. So I looked one more time and I really feel like it was Holy Spirit revealing it to me. I found a bunch of texts and pictures and things. Of course, in that moment I was just beside myself, very painful.

Speaker 1: 33:15

Sure.

Speaker 2: 33:17

And then what do you do with it? I'm exhausted. I was exhausted from just all weekend long having this horrible feeling and not sleeping and whatnot, and so I'm not proud of this. I mean I didn't handle it the best way, but I didn't know what else to do. He was in the kitchen with our youngest and doing homework and I lost it. I really lost it. I started yelling at him and hitting him. I was hitting him and my son was watching it, and the thing about that is it's very painful because I can remember my son saying Mom, stop, why are you hitting dad? Stop doing that. And then I must have said enough that my son knew more what was going on and he was like dad, how could you, how could you do this? Is this for real? He's crying and I'm crying and Ben's just dumbfounded. He just looks stunned because I really think he could just get away with it and that's what he thought he could get away with it. So that night my other son had been working out in our shed and he came inside to this hot mess and explained what was going on. And our other son was working, ben went in our room and he didn't know what to do. I remember he just slid down to the floor with an open bag and I said you need to call your mom. You need to call your mom right now and tell her what you've done and make sure she's got a place for you to stay tonight, because you're not staying here. And he packed a bag and he drove off and went to his mom's house. Any questions at this point?

Speaker 1: 35:14

I remember we talked and I think something and you tell me if you resonate with this. It was you and this is going to sound like duh, but hear me out, listener you were cheated on. He chose to do this thing to you. He was doing it to you. Maybe you didn't know that on the surface level, the front of your mind, but it seemed like you believed because you weren't this. He was doing it to you. You were worthy of being cheated on. Not just that he cheated on you, which is sad on a myriad of different levels, but that you yourself. You're worthy of being cheated on.

Speaker 2: 36:07

Yeah, I'm like what did I do? Was I not a good wife, did I not? I knew I was self-conscious about my body. I didn't want him to see me naked. There was a lot of what did I do wrong? Why did this happen? And, yeah, he chose to do. This is what I said. He made the decision to do this, and so I got distracted and I didn't finish telling you that it wasn't the girl at the gym. It was somebody that I knew. It was somebody that I considered a friend and somebody that I saw on a regular basis, and so that was super painful, because not only was I betrayed by my husband of 22 years at that point, but I was betrayed by someone I considered a friend and I don't know it. Just it was so painful, I don't know.

Speaker 1: 36:59

The betrayal thing comes back and it's also stealing from us. It's this is what this person thinks about your friendship. This is what this person thinks about who you are that they would smile in your face but then behind your back, oh, they think you're stupid or whatever. The truth of this whole thing is you could have been wife of the year, but it's deception. It's the other person. It's what's going on with the other person? And we've come to learn how sin works, and deception and the lies that lead us to making all these micro decisions that end up making this. Nobody like we, nobody just falls into bed with somebody, or nobody just randomly sends a photo. This stuff is built up because of lies, because of deception, and there may be, like this idea that, oh, I deserve this or I deserve that, but even the I deserve this and I deserve that is based on lies. Like all of it is just like a big ball of lies. And then one person falls for it and then the other person, because of moralized they believe it's, it ends up not being man. Ben was in serious trouble. Look where his life is leading him. But also, what did I do to deserve that Like what's wrong with me?

Speaker 2: 38:33

Yeah, and so there was a lot of unanswered questions and I tried so hard just to make it all make sense. And of course you just can't make sense of something like this, and that's what I learned.

Speaker 1: 38:47

But yeah, there's no answer there. What are you going to get to the bottom of it, like you're lying in bed at night and you finally connect all the dots and, oh, this is why he did it. And even if you came to that conclusion, it would not bring comfort, right? It would probably just make you more hurt, mad, betrayed, whatever. But it's the bargaining right, it's the trying to rationalize something that, at its root, is just a lie. Believe that leads to a lie. Believe that leads to a lie. Believe that leads to calamity.

Speaker 2: 39:19

Yeah, our world was turned upside down. Here I am with these kids and still trying to work, because you can't just not miss work because your life's small and apart. You still have to go in, still have to try to do life. And we were apart for a little while and he just he stated, as parents, I think, a couple of weeks and then we have a camper. So eventually moved into the camper because I was exhausted, I needed help, help, I needed help with the boys for making dinner and just I needed some relief because you go to work all day long, you come home and make dinner for the kids, you try to be there for your kids and you're exhausted and you don't have time to process anything that's going on. So, yeah, I was a mess, I was really Did you have a plan moving forward?

Speaker 1: 40:09

What were you weighing out as far as options went for you?

Speaker 2: 40:15

I knew that I would be okay if I left him. I worried about my kids and what that would do to them. And they had said to me too they're like Mom, all of our, all of our friends whose parents are divorced, they're RMS, their families are MS, they're not happy, they're depressed, they're angry. And so I'm like, yeah, I'm sure they are. I don't want that for you guys. You know Also that same night that I found out and my youngest was there a little while later, just before Ben left the house, my son looked at me and he said Mom, god forgives dad, I forgive dad and you can forgive dad too. And so that kind of stuck with me and I'm like, can I forgive him? I know God, does God forgive him. I had that question Like that's a pretty big offense, one of the 10 commandments. Of course, lying is too, but I'm like, can God forgive him? Can I forgive him? So that was in my mind. Maybe we can move forward, I don't know. So then Mother's Day rolls around a couple weeks later and I'm like, oh, this is fabulous. I'm hating life but I try to make the most of it. My kids and I go to breakfast, we go bowling and whatnot. And then Ben's let me take the kids in the afternoon and you can go pedicure or something like that. While we were bowling I kept looking on my phone just to see where he was at. I'm like, oh, this is this just sucks. Looking on my phone, where is he at on life 360? And he was at some bagel shop, right, and he doesn't drink coffee, he doesn't eat bagels. What is he doing? And he was there and noticed for three hours and like what in the world? Who's he sitting with? Is he having breakfast with her? All these things go through your head. And a couple days later I found out that he said I was sitting with a couple guys from church. I don't know if he, if these were his exact words, but I'm like, what do you mean? And so a couple days earlier, when we're trying to talk all through this right and try to talk.

Speaker 1: 42:24

How long after the discovery of all this is Mother's Day.

Speaker 2: 42:28

It's two or three weeks, something like that, and I knew that he had called the church. I'm like we got to call the church, we got to find somebody to talk to. We need to support somehow, besides our counselor we've got, and she is amazing, but we need support because I feel very alone and you need help. He called the church and the church didn't really have a support group or anything for for the person who was cheated on For sure. I called other churches too to find out if there were support groups, and there was one that was going to have this nine month program. They meet every Thursday, yada, yada, yada. So I was contemplating that and like I just need a support group. I need somebody who's been through this. I need something because I don't know how to move forward here. I don't know what to do. And then I guess the church had given him the name of two gentlemen and he texted one. The one didn't get back to him and then he texted the other. Apparently that one reached out to him and then you probably know better than I, because he told you the story, where that went from there. But he tells me that he was at this coffee shop, bagel place with two guys from church for those three hours on Mother's Day and I'm like, okay, and, and he was, I don't know, I just feel different, something's different. Like what do you mean? Something's different. I feel like I'm reborn. I just feel different. I can't explain it in a cool, but I know that I'm loved by God and I feel different, okay to me. I didn't know what that meant and I'm still angry and hurt. And he eventually tells me the story about being at the station and wanting to commit suicide and all of that. And in my head and like, okay, I'm not feeling sorry for him at all and I've got a couple of friends I can fight in and they're like, oh yeah, that's. Is you sure you're not just telling you that, just to tell you that so you feel sorry for him. Or there was a lot of different things whirling around about what was going on there. And and Ben just kept saying, nicole, I'm different, I'm not to the same Ben, I was a couple of weeks ago. I am different, I know I am. He goes. Something happened in that coffee shop and that's what he just kept saying oh, ben is dead, and I knew. And talking about how he wanted to work it out and all of that. Now I'm pissed even more because, okay, he's found God For one. I have spent 22 years married to this man trying to keep our family in touch with God and trying to keep us all on the way to heaven, right the stairway to heaven. And there were times in our marriage where I was trying to explain to him so many times, like how you can know, how you know what God's will is, or living for God, or doing God's will, and he just didn't get it. He would always counter with these questions oh, you know, it's not coincidence or how to know, it's not just you making these decisions and it's that, it's God. And he just never understood it. And I was frustrated because now, all of a sudden, he was understanding God, he was hearing God, he was new, and that was frustrating to me because I am sitting here just crushed and he's, I would say. I always used to say to him oh yeah, that's great, you're off here flying high with Jesus and living this new life, and I am miserable.

Speaker 1: 45:56

What do you think you really back then in that mindset, what do you think you really wanted for him? What is there anything he could have possibly done or said, or even something? What did you want?

Speaker 2: 46:14

Here's the thing, In the old mindset. I really truly, if this thing was real. I wanted that for him. I really did. That's what I've wanted for him as long as we've been together. I wanted him to know God and to have a personal relationship with God, and so that's probably one thing that I'm like. Let's just see where this goes. In my head, I was just like I'm just going to keep asking questions, I'm going to watch and I asked my counselor how do I know if this is real? How do I know if he really is new? And you will know them by their fruit. And I'm okay, I'm just going to keep watching him and listening, listen to how he talks, listen to how he does life and see if this is really real, if he really did accept Jesus Christ that day for real, and see where this goes. I wanted that for him, whether we stayed together or not, and I remember the one thing I kept telling myself was he could be, finally, the man that I've always wanted him to be spiritually. He is, spiritually, seemingly different. He spiritually seems to be in a better place and really in tune with God, and I would tell myself I don't want someone else to experience that part of him I should experience. That part of him is what I kept telling myself Like he's finally there, like I want to see that, I want to see that in him, and so that was one thing that, I guess, kept me there the anger that you had when it seemed like he was saying all this.

Speaker 1: 47:58

What was the root of that?

Speaker 2: 48:00

Because he was in such a good place. He was in such a good place with God. He seemed happy. He seemed I'm not that person anymore. I am different. That person is dead, and for me that was hard because I still had a lot of questions. This was just I don't know three weeks after the fact. I had a lot of questions. I was one of those that wanted to know everything, and in these situations things don't come out in one big vomit of information, it comes out slowly. There were it was, months down the road, four or five months down the road, and I would learn something new that he hadn't told me before here. He did this thing and I am miserable and our family is in this horrible place. So we don't know if we're going to be a family anymore. And he is over here loving life Like how fair is that? That's where that came from, sure.

Speaker 1: 49:02

Fair enough.

Speaker 2: 49:03

Yeah. So that was really hard for me. And also in information seeking, I would be asking him questions and sometimes I felt like he was using that to deflect or as an excuse. He would say, nicole, you're asking questions to someone who was, of someone who was dead. I'm new, I'm alive again and you're asking questions of someone who was dead and I'm like, hang on a minute, someone has to answer for this. Good for you, but for being new and for being reborn and loving God, but someone has to answer for this. You still have to take responsibility. Someone has to take responsibility for what was done.

Speaker 1: 49:48

Yeah, and I think that's one of those things where people will say, because of a new understanding of the gospel, does that mean that you're not responsible for the actions that you've done? And the answer to that is of course you are responsible. Of course there are consequences and while in many ways this is a sad story, there's going to be a happiness and joy, but there's hurt, and so there are consequences. And, yeah, we know that in Christ we are a new creation, but we also know we were dead in our sins and transgressions. We were on the line for all of it, but God. So the good thing is but God. Because we were responsible for all of it, we fell for it, we were caught up. So in no way are you not responsible for actions that you've done just because God has changed your life. There's still consequences.

Speaker 2: 50:55

Yeah, and I guess that's just how it felt to me was just like he was trying to escape it all by saying he was new, escape responsibility by living this new life and saying that he was dead and that just didn't go over with me very well.

Speaker 1: 51:13

Sure.

Speaker 2: 51:14

Yeah, so well, he was like so kind of telling me about his conversation with the two men at the coffee shop and he's like you can talk to his wife, and he had told me that he had an affair in Jaila and he's you can talk to her if you want to. They're still married and she can help you with this. And so I was like okay, so I called her text to Jaila and we decided to meet at a different coffee shop and prior to that, first of all for that openness though.

Speaker 1: 51:45

Oh yeah, like Morgan. When Jaila contacts Morgan wants to like everybody, everything on fire and like never contact me again. So like that's a miracle in and of itself is the openness and it shows the sincerity of your heart.

Speaker 2: 52:00

Yeah, yeah, I knew God was with me. I didn't understand, though, why? Why this? Why did it have to come down to this? And then sometimes I would tell myself you know what? Look where Ben's at right now and look how close he is to God, and if this is what it took for that, for him to be saved, for him to be close to God, and then I guess it was worth it. I just and then other times I was like I don't understand, and what I learned later is that God didn't allow this to happen. It was just one of those things that happened, and then God rescued Ben from it, and he rescued me from it. But going back to Jaila, I was willing to meet her. She had wanted me to listen to their podcast before, so she gave me that original version of her and Eddie's. She wanted me to listen to both Eddie, her and also them together. I did. I listened to it all.

Speaker 1: 52:58

What was that like?

Speaker 2: 52:59

Oh, it was so hard. I was not a fan of Eddie. I was angry. I was angry at him for doing what he did, even though I didn't know, and I was angry at the part where he says, no, I don't feel any shame condemnation. I was like are you kidding me? I don't understand this. And the fact that she was okay with that. I'm like no, I don't understand this part. I don't get it.

Speaker 1: 53:29

So at the end of his episode you were just like that's a crummy guy. I don't like that guy, yeah.

Speaker 2: 53:35

Yeah, I was like, okay, yeah, he seemed like a spiritual guy, seemed close with God or whatever, but I was just like I'm just not loving this story here. It's for one too close to home, very painful, and I'm just angry at him for doing that to her and I just don't know. So then we made arrangements to talk, jaila and I and I honestly she's very matter of fact, very blunt, and I'm more touchy-feely, but she just listened to me and I had never this is the first time meeting her and I just spilled my guts out and told her the whole story to this woman I had never met before but I just felt like I could trust her and I did tell her my story. And she's got her Bible and I've got my Bible and she's reading scripture to me and some of it's hitting really well and some of it's not.

Speaker 1: 54:29

What was the main idea that she was trying to get across to you?

Speaker 2: 54:34

I think she was just trying to impress upon me that we could move forward together and we could do that with God, and that's how I walked away from. That feeling was maybe there is hope. This woman has done this, she's been in my shoes and she seems like a very spiritual woman and there's something that I can learn from her.

Speaker 1: 54:54

That's powerful, yeah, so what happened after that?

Speaker 2: 54:59

I don't know Jayla and I met up a couple more times and then at one point they I don't know if I met Eddie before or not, but anyway we ended up at their house one night for we brought him dinner and we just had a nice dinner together and when you're going over there for dinner, are you and Ben's back in the house? He was in the camper for a couple months, I think, but yeah, on our property.

Speaker 1: 55:23

There's a chance like. There's a chance like how, what? Is your heart towards him at this point, when you're starting to talk with. Jayla and Eddie.

Speaker 2: 55:29

I was not sure where we were going to end up. I was open to. I wanted to do God's will. That's what I wanted to do. I would pray God, I want to do your will. Please show me what your will is. And I was angry. I was angry, I was hurt, I was bitter, I had rage. There were a lot of ups and downs, what I call spirals. There's just things that come up, yeah, so we went over to their home and here Ben's been living this new life for a while now I don't know, maybe six or seven, eight weeks, who knows. And I'm not sure why we're going over there, to be honest, aside from just trying to get to know this couple a little bit better. But I think they had an agenda for me. They sat me down after dinner on their couch and they were like ask me questions about how are you feeling? Wanted to know all the things that I felt about this. And they knew I wanted to feel better, desperately. So they were just trying to help me basically put to rest all the things that I was feeling. So they wanted me to confess anything that was on my heart, confessing the lies into me. At first I was like, listen, I'm not the one who did this, he's the one who did this. What lies? Could I be living? I don't know, because my whole life I've been honest as I can, my whole life I've loved God. I would never do anything like this. They were walking me through and the feelings that I was feeling at the time were the rage and the pain and the mistrust and just all these things. And so they had me confess these things and said this beautiful prayer over me, and it was beautiful, but it didn't heal me right away. I still struggled every day. Everything replays in your mind every like, every day, every. There wasn't a day that went by that I didn't think about it. There was. The thing of it was is I had to drive through the town that she lives in twice a day. So every time I drove through that town I had horrible anxiety. It's like I felt pain all over again and I had so much anger towards her. I'll be honest, I had in my head like it's a good thing that God never really put us alone together in a room, because there were things that I would have done that I would have regretted, like I wanted to beat the crap out of her. I really did, and so those feelings, just all of that, floods you every time you drive through that town. Or, to be honest, like she worked where I worked, I had to see her every day at work if I tried to avoid her, but you just can't always do that and I know she's there. So every time I went to work I had so much anxiety and it was just awful. I don't know what else to say about it. It was just awful.

Speaker 1: 58:36

I remember this conversation. I don't know when you and I had the conversation. Was it around this time where you and I talked about this?

Speaker 2: 58:43

Yeah, probably, and.

Speaker 1: 58:47

I don't know if you remember the conversation, but I remember it and you were really upset at this person and I don't know what I offered. You landed, but I was framing it around this idea that you're okay, this woman and your husband. Your husband was in serious trouble, sounds like he's seeing some things, but if this woman hasn't seen anything, then she is in serious trouble, but you are okay. Yeah, how did that land? Was that tough to receive that?

Speaker 2: 59:33

In a way, yeah, you did tell me, nicole, it's not your fault. There's nothing that you did to deserve this. There's nothing you did to create this, to make Ben do what he did, and that's always good to hear.

Speaker 1: 59:46

I remember I told you that Jay-Z cheated on Beyonce. Now this is all coming to you, yeah.

Speaker 2: 59:51

I'm like if.

Speaker 1: 59:52

Jay-Z cheated on Beyonce. Nobody has any chance.

Speaker 2: 59:58

No one has a chance if Jay-Z cheated on Beyonce, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:00:03

So it wasn't. It's not on Beyonce, yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:00:08

And I think that helped me to get away from that space eventually, where I was like I didn't do anything here that caused him to stray. That was him. And then you talked to me about maybe having some compassion for her. Compassion because who knows, maybe she doesn't know the good gospel that Ben does now she could still be living as her old self and not know that it's possible to die to her old self and live new and free and live for God. And I heard you and I did take it in and there was some space in my heart for that. I don't know, I just it still was very difficult for me. I still had horrible feelings for her and him. The only difference was I was dealing with him on a day-to-day basis and watching him grow, and not with her. And anyway, we were at Eddie and Jay-Z and we had this beautiful time and whatnot, and we went home and we tried to hang out with them again. We did. They came over to our place one time and we'd had conversations in between then and they're just trying to help me along and then we find out they're going to be moving. So that was hard, man. We're just getting to know these people and they're helping us and we like hanging out with them, and now they're leaving. But I was happy for them. But also, god also put other people in my path. There was a lady at work that I knew her name and I knew her face, but I had never talked to her and when this all happened like I just couldn't deal with people I couldn't deal with anything aside from my patients. That's all I could deal with, and so I moved my computer away from everybody I was. I just needed my own space, right. So she had seen this and she must have got my phone number from my boss, and she was. She texted me. She's look, I know we don't know each other very well, she's, but if you don't mind me saying so, I see something's different in you and you look like I did four years ago, and if you ever want to talk, please reach out to me. And so I did. And she was pretty instrumental too, and just because she's still with her husband, he cheated on her for a lengthy period of time and she is just a very spiritual woman and she was just super sweet. They're both wonderful people, but they're still together, and so she helped walk me through this as well, and that's just the thing of it is God. Looking back, I'm like this has sucked so hard, but God has put people in our path just at the right time when we needed it the two, eddie and the other guy that met Ben at the shop. Had Eddie not gone through what he had gone through, had this other guy not gone through what he had gone through and I guess at that time he was free for a year, he had experienced freedom a year ago Then they wouldn't have been able to reach out to Ben. And had Eddie and Jaila and this other gentleman I'm not going to use his name because I don't know, I haven't asked him but had they not reached out when they did, or whatever, things could have been and would have been probably completely different. Ben and I probably wouldn't even be together now. But Eddie went through what he went through and this other guy went through what he went through, and they now have this new understanding and they live in freedom and they live for God and they were able to pass that on to Ben and then Jaila and this other friend. They all were able to minister to him and to me and to us as a couple and, like I said, I really feel like God wanted us to stay together. And when I realized that, I flat out asked him. When I realized that I could ask him and he would tell me, he told me, yeah, he wanted us to be together. And then there were things that happened that I could tell we were on the same page. I knew Ben was different because he talked different, he prayed different, he read the gospel, he was attending Bible studies. None of these things had he done before. He never really took initiative to do devotionals, to do a Bible study. He never took initiative spiritually, like when it comes to our family. I was always the one like let's go to church, let's do this, let's do that, let's have worship on Friday, all of these things. And I was the one who always let out. And now I was seeing differently in him. I was seeing, like I said, he was talking different, praying different, acting different, and I was starting to see that he was different.

Speaker 1: 1:04:47

As you were starting to learn about the gospel, like freedom from sin, baptism being a new creation, what did you start believing differently about yourself?

Speaker 2: 1:05:01

It took me quite a while. It took several months. I, just like I said, I was praying and I was trying to understand all this and trying to see how I could benefit from all this as well. But it was a question.

Speaker 1: 1:05:15

As you're walking in truth, hearing it and being surrounded by it. What did you start thinking differently about yourself?

Speaker 2: 1:05:24

The first of the spirit for one and, as I mentioned earlier, that the Holy Spirit lives in me and that I have sinned, even though I felt like I hadn't sinned very badly. I knew I had sinned and God forgave me. And all sins are the same as far as there's not one sin that's worse than the other. Yeah, I just knew that I needed to forgive. In reading my Bible I was like God tells you have to forgive or you're not forgiven yourself. And to me I was like okay, I've got to forgive. What does that mean? And I struggled with that for a while how do I forgive him? How do I trust him moving forward? How do I forgive her? And that came much later, but I was just what did you learn about that?

Speaker 1: 1:06:12

How were you able to?

Speaker 2: 1:06:15

I heard you guys talk about pride a lot and I didn't feel like I was proud. I didn't feel like that was something that I needed to confess. But then I learned, I read that and I felt that the Holy Spirit was telling me you, not forgiving is pride. And so I dove into that and I was like let me learn more about this pride thing. And I didn't realize how awful pride is. That of the seven deadly sins and that's probably the worst right, and it was the original sin from Satan. And I actually heard one morning I heard Doug Bachelors say on his show amazing facts. He said you are never more like the devil than if you are proud. And I was like, wow, I don't know, I just I connected the dots and I was like me, not forgiving is being proud.

Speaker 1: 1:07:18

And so I didn't want to, yeah, explain that. Why was it pride? Why was holding back forgiveness? Because it was like I haven't done anything and you're the bad guy. Is that what it was? Yeah?

Speaker 2: 1:07:32

it was somewhat of that and what he did was horrible and it was. It was the death of our marriage, it was the death of me, really.

Speaker 1: 1:07:44

So let me ask you this Pride rejects and humility receives mm-hmm. And this idea of forgiveness is always in response. Everything that God asks us to do is Always in response to something that he has done. For example, in the New Testament, it doesn't even tell us to love God. It tells us to believe in the one who God has sent and love our neighbor as our cell. And so when we believe in the one who God has sent, jesus, who has not counted our trespasses against us, who's forgiven us, then our response is actually to love. We forgive Because we are forgiven, right? This is seen in the Lord's Prayer. This is seen in Matthew, chapter 18 Mm-hmm. If we're holding it back, like I said, we either don't understand we needed forgiveness or we don't understand we're forgiven. And that's where pride kind of Intertwines with all of that, because you can't see, because you're rejecting first God, and what I mean by rejecting God is the forgiveness that he's offered, the forgiveness that he's given your cult. The truth is, nicole, you have a heart to forgive. That's why holding back forgiveness, it never would have felt good for you, right? It never would have, because you have a sincere heart that God has given you. So to hold back forgiveness? You would have been going against yourself, I think. Did that end up hitting you like this, like I don't even want to be, like this?

Speaker 2: 1:09:25

Yeah, I just knew that I wanted peace. I needed peace. I couldn't live Like this anymore. I couldn't live with so much hatred and anger and anxiety and just all of those awful things anymore. I wanted peace and I think I I knew deep down that forgiving Ben Would bring me peace and I knew that forgiving her would bring me peace and that's what I really was seeking so how'd that come to be? I've prayed about it a lot and I don't know God, that's all they can say is. But God Jalas said it's supernatural and I think it is. I think he knew that I wanted. He knew that's where my heart was and that's what I needed and he gave it to me. He blessed me with it. He said yes, I'm gonna let you forgive Ben, and you know it. Like I said, it didn't come as easy for her and I feel like, really, it's just been like the last six weeks or so that I really feel free from her. You know, like I told you earlier, I used to drive through her town and have so much anxiety and anger and now I don't I can drive through there and not even Think about her, and that's how I know that I've forgiven her if you do think about her, if you're driving through the town, she's in.

Speaker 1: 1:10:52

What are your thoughts towards her in the light of truth, in the light of the truth of who you are?

Speaker 2: 1:10:58

Her husband had called me earlier on and said that we were going to basically Try to avoid each other and not attend the same church, and things like that. So he had said you go to this church if you want to, we'll, we'll find another church, and things like that. And there are times when I've, you know, really just wanted To know are they going to church? Where are they? And, as a couple in their marriage, does she, how does she feel about herself, how does he feel about himself? I can only imagine that without God and Without Ben having a personal relationship with God and me having a personal relationship with God, and then us together Really diving in and doing this with God, it would be impossible. And so I wonder are they just living miserably? Are they separated? I just wonder about them, I wonder if they're going to church, I wonder if if, because, because Ben has found freedom and I have found peace and freedom, and I just Wonder, I do want that for them. I really do, and I know that she was living in sin and and Not living with God in her heart, let not living for God, and I I Don't want that for her. I do really want her to know God and to have a good outcome. I Really do. And there are also times when you know, if I let myself, I Can surely spiral and start thinking all these horrible things about her, if I let myself. But I have to catch myself right away and no, nicole, that's not who you are. That is not what God wants for you. You didn't come all this way to just Think these horrible thoughts about her and go backwards.

Speaker 1: 1:12:55

Yeah, you don't have to relearn how to be bitter, or relearn how to have rage, or it's not gonna take much practice. That's why we live, if we are new and when. I say if the Bible says, if anyone is in Christ, they're a new creation. The old has passed away. Behold, the new has come. So since we are new Colossians 3 we have to think from new. We cannot think from bitter. If we think from bitter, if I think from my old, self-centered Richard, oh, there's no question I can be doing exactly the same things, being exactly the same self-centered Ben, the same thing, and Ben goes back to living from old Ben. The habits are locked in, they're in there that you don't have to go too far. If you go to old Nicole and drive through that town, you can remember how to be, to have anxiety. So we live from new because we are new. We live from new not because we are becoming new. We live from new because that's home base. That's where our life is found, mm-hmm. And so we cannot risk Thinking in the old way. It's a paradigm shift. We are transformed. We are transformed by the renewing of our mind. We cannot risk seeing our life through that old pattern. We can't see. We can't risk seeing our life through the old habits, the things that were taken from us, you know what. I'm saying like we can't live from there anymore, because, I mean, it sounds like it was terrible, it was awful.

Speaker 2: 1:14:32

I was so desperate to get out of that space and probably Ben, living his new life and flying high with Jesus quote-unquote as I used to say is it helped me along in the process. I want that. I want To not have bitterness in my heart, I want to feel free and I want to forgive and I want to move past this and just live for God.

Speaker 1: 1:15:01

Yeah, and if you're listening to this and you want the same thing, like you've experienced some kind of loss or Something in your marriage and you're but you're at the place where you have a sincere heart, like Nicole's talking about when you want this but you don't know how to get it. And perhaps you've been listening and you know you understand some truth, but you're not. It's not what you're walking out. This is caught more than taught. Like we can understand, quote-unquote, why we forgive and all the verses about forgiveness and that you are forgiven, and we can understand that. Yeah, if anyone is in Christ, like a Corinthians 5, 17 says they are new and the old is gone and Christ, that we can understand that at a brain level. But if that's where you're at right now and it's not manifesting in your actions, it's not manifesting in your thoughts, the Holy Spirit has to minister these things to you. The Holy Spirit and this is the Holy Spirit's job is Administered Christ's heart for you and towards you, administers God's heart for you and towards you and so if you're in that place, like Nicole was, has come to minister that to you and I promise you this is what he does, amen. He just needs you to see that perhaps he is who he says he is and that by his stripes you are actually healed and that, if Jesus is alive, whoever took this thing from you or ever hurt you they were the one that was tripping, but you've seen too much and you know that he is actually good.

Speaker 2: 1:16:40

Amen. Yeah, I know he's good. I know the good changes he's made in bed, in bed, ben. I Seen the changes he's made in Ben and I. You know it took me a while because I just wanted to make sure that it was for real and I just I Didn't ever want to underestimate God, I didn't ever want to say that this wasn't possible, that God, it is possible. God can change someone in a three-hour period. I know he can because I've heard stories of him changing people's lives in a day before. It's just that when you're that hurt, you just need to make sure that it's not just the person you know lying to you again or Manipulating you or whatever else.

Speaker 1: 1:17:32

Yeah, you had to see it. And here's the truth about telling somebody you're new, you can't, they're not gonna see it. But if you are in Christ, you are new. So live new. So, on the other end, if you're the spouse who has Cheated and you've received this message, you know you're forgiven. You know that, like you believe what God has done, that he has made you new. My, my, what I'm offering you is live, new, live new. Hold no record of wrong. If your spouse can't see that, love them anyway. Love them through that. Forgive them for not seeing you, for what God has done, and don't try to prove anything. Just be the new creation that you are. And If your spouse can't see it, god bless them. I think the biggest chance for them to see it is For you just to walk as the salt of the earth, to be a city on a hill, to lay down your life and to love them, whether they decide to keep on in the relationship or not, and to always have your heart towards them, because that's the kind of miracle like that somebody I Mean. I'm sure you could have a heart and heart and look past it, but it would be difficult, when your love done conditionally To say you know what something's different about this person.

Speaker 2: 1:18:55

Yeah, I always say like I think what really made me turn the corner was God told me himself Nicole, just seek me first, because I'd be like God, show me. If you want me to be with him, show me. If, show me, show me, show me me. And Questioning if I should still be here and be married, and blah, blah, blah. And he just told me, nicole focused on me and that's what I did. I think that's how anybody can get through this is just focusing on God and letting him work out the details. It's not always gonna have a happy ending like this. As far as you know, us still being together and us we're growing together in God and things are looking up. You know, it could have gone very differently and I've got friends right now who are going through the very same thing and it's not going. But no matter what, if it goes well or not, if it goes that you stay together or not, you just need to seek God and he will bring you perfect peace and he will get you through this. No matter what, you can't try to control the situation yourself. You just give it to God. Give it all to God.

Speaker 1: 1:20:05

I want to go back to something you said earlier and you corrected yourself, and it was about God allowing this. And If, if we Structure what we're saying in the light of God allowing something, that gets really weird, because then God is on the line for it somehow, right. Mm-hmm and God had nothing to do with Ben decision, ben's decisions. He was absent from Ben's decisions. That was the problem. So exactly yeah so God has nothing to do with this, but God can use and will use what was meant for evil for good. And this is Romans, chapter 5, where this whole thing, like you said, it has all sucked, it's all been terrible, but we rejoice in our trials because, as I'm looking at you I don't know how long it's been, if it's been over a year Like you, would never be at this place spiritually forgiving, understanding God, if it wasn't for this terrible thing that has happened. Did it have to happen? For in order for you to see who God actually is? No, but correct, god has used this terrible thing and it has grown you in your faith, absolutely God. And so your faith is in God, not in Ben.

Speaker 2: 1:21:24

Exactly, and you know, for anyone who's wondering, like how can you trust him again? Like you said, my faith is not in Ben, my faith is in God. I don't trust Like you. I've heard you say before another podcast that Love or trust it's a risk, right, so it's a risk if I stay with him, it's a risk if I don't stay with him and with somebody else. But reason with your with Ben is Because I trust God and I've been seeking to do God's will, and I feel God telling me this is where he wants me to be, and so I trust God that he's got it, no matter what happens, even from here on out, god's got it, and you know what you love Ben that too.

Speaker 1: 1:22:13

Oh, you love that guy and you see him for who he actually is. That's absolutely 100%, I see.

Speaker 2: 1:22:20

Jesus in him, and I didn't really see Jesus in him before, and it's a beautiful thing. Let's wrap up with this.

Speaker 1: 1:22:26

If you get to grab Old Nicole and just pull her aside, maybe afterwards, where she's feeling the rage and she's feeling the shame and she's feeling all this Emotional flooding. Just she's feeling all the feels. Maybe that's not the right time. Maybe two hours later you get to grab her and pull her aside. What would you say or what would you do, knowing what you know now? I would Hold on to her. I would hold on to her.

Speaker 2: 1:22:55

I would hold on to her. Hold on to her, I would hug her, because that was a very lonely time and I felt very alone, and so I would just hold her and I would tell her that just keep clinging to God, keep seeking God, that he's going to work this out for his good, and he loves you and he loves Ben and he's going to see you through.

Speaker 1: 1:23:26

This is going to be your ministry, and I don't mean like you're going to have a formal ministry, but where we're hurt, that's where we end up ministering from, meaning when we see what God has done. You have a story and You're going to be able to minister to people that are living in bitterness, and you're going to be able to minister to people living in unforgiveness, people that have been hurt and not yet. Not just bitterness and unforgiveness, but also just the pain and the hurt of being betrayed, because all of it is true. And that's where you're going to be able to minister from, because you have been healed Of the betrayal and of the pain and the hurt. And it's beautiful to see and I can't like I'm excited to hear of the testimonies that come From your pouring life into people that didn't think they would be able to move forward.

Speaker 2: 1:24:33

Yeah, I it's. It's encouraging to know that God does take our pain and turn around and use it for good and anything. If I can help anybody with a story, even just to one person, I just pray that it helps somebody by telling my story. Or, yeah, I do have faith that God is going to use me in some way to help somebody else and I look forward to that.

Speaker 1: 1:25:02

You're a testimony to me, and the testimony is that God is love, that you have been loved through this hurt and through this pain, and that not only do you see the other side, but you're walking in it and you're learning how to walk in it. And when the lies come back. You're living from truth.

Speaker 2: 1:25:24

Yep, you can't live from lies, nope.

Speaker 1: 1:25:28

Thanks so much, Nicole. I appreciate you sharing your testimony.

Speaker 2: 1:25:32

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1: 1:26:02

You're a testimony to me, and the testimony is that God is going to use me in some way to help somebody else. And when the lies come back, you're living from truth. And when the lies come back, you're living from truth. It's all I need. I feel it. Give me life.

Speaker 2: 1:26:35

Give me life. I feel it. You give me life. Give me life, yeah, Fast, straight, sparse. Broken body avenues, fear of fear, spirit's eyes, I saw the power. You paid it all. I was blinded. Not a ghost, not a ghost, Okay, okay, okay, Try to see what the world has scheduled for me. I know your ways are better for me and you are how I felt. Rest is complete. No one else can complete In the middle of the storm.

Speaker 1: 1:27:20

I face you On the nights. I thought I wouldn't make it. Every time I lay it down, you'll take it. In the middle of the storm, heart breaks On the nights. I thought I wouldn't make it. Every time I lay it down, you'll take it. I feel it. Give me life, give me life. I feel it. Give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, Give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, Give me life, give me life. Give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life, give me life.