Summary: In this gripping episode, we delve into Emilyanne's tumultuous and negative past, where she was entangled in a web of religious struggles, unattainable perfectionism, and an insatiable thirst for validation. Her difficult childhood and rebellious adolescent years painted a bleak picture of her journey towards self-love and acceptance.

However, amidst her darkness, the power of God emerged as a transformative force. Jesus took hold of her life, orchestrating a profound and awe-inspiring metamorphosis that she could never have achieved on her own. Witness how her encounters with God's unwavering love and faith led to a remarkable turnaround.

Prepare to be astounded by the redemption and resilience in Emily's life as God's transformative power shines through, erasing her past and guiding her towards a radiant and positive future. This thought-provoking episode highlights the miraculous impact of God's grace, showing how it can elevate even the most broken souls to new heights of hope, joy, and freedom.

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TimeStamps:
0:00 - Transformation Stories and Faith Journeys
7:02 - Growing Up With Pressure and Rules
17:42 - Navigating Relationships and Rebellion in Adolescence
27:29 - Validation and Self-Worth in Relationships
34:29 - Finding Independence and Rejecting God's Help
48:03 - Finding Hope and Identity in Faith
59:06 - Journey to Freedom and Unexpected Changes
1:04:32 - Struggling With Isolation and Influence
1:15:33 - Struggles With Faith and Identity
1:27:50 - Rediscovering Faith and Community
1:41:21 - Resting in God's Love and Grace

Keywords: Spiritual life, Strict religious upbringing, Performance-based acceptance, High school rebellion, Sexual immorality, College party lifestyle, Personal Growth, Faith Journey, Self-Discovery, Vulnerability, Overcoming Doubts, Intimacy with God

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Speaker 1: 0:35

The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is death to life.

Speaker 2: 0:56

I think I was frustrated because I think I started believing the lie that Serena got a husband because she was better than me. It sucked because I was like she's been so good for so long and waited for four years praying for her husband. So of course she got a husband and I was still struggling with behavior here and there and had been so off the path for so long. I was like I'm definitely not going to get that and being having that first row seat to that was so beautiful. But also I think it just opened up a way for a saint to be like. But that's not for you, yo.

Speaker 1: 1:38

Welcome to the death to life podcast. My name is Richard Young and today's episode is with my sister, emily Ann, and man. Emily Ann, man, what a story. I think this is one of the first ones of someone who was rocking with freedom and then the enemy. He lied and she listened for a while and I don't want to spoiler alert it, but this is a powerful, powerful testimony and you're going to love it, and Emily Ann has the most incredible heart of all time. So buckle up and strap in for Emily Ann. Love y'all, appreciate y'all. How are you feeling?

Speaker 2: 2:33

Pretty good, I just I got up at seven and I went on a walk some week.

Speaker 1: 2:37

So you're awake. How many have you listened to a few episodes of the death to life podcast?

Speaker 2: 2:45

Oh yeah, I've listened to a lot of them.

Speaker 1: 2:49

What episode stands out in your mind?

Speaker 2: 2:51

I think the one that impacted me the most over the years is probably Joyce and Will's story, their love story. I think that was. It was great listening to both of them, but then hearing how they got together was really impactful.

Speaker 1: 3:09

What was it about that? Or their story?

Speaker 2: 3:12

I think it was mostly just their faith and I think their steadfastness and the way they left their love story in God's hands, I think that was just really impactful back in the day when I first heard it. Also, Nicholas's was good. It was a really short one but it was like good about. I think it was about validation and kind of affirmation and stuff like that. You know, these were like, this was like when you had only a few out.

Speaker 1: 3:44

You've been and you were, I think, a key for Lorraine receiving this. We're not new like yo actually don't tell me. You have to tell me when we get into the story, but I think your story you were on from Jump Street. Were you on the Friday nights with Nicholas and all of them, all the time?

Speaker 2: 4:03

Yeah 2020.

Speaker 1: 4:05

Yeah, I'm excited to hear this story. So where do you feel like your story starts? When it comes to like spiritual life or who God was in your life, where do you feel like it starts?

Speaker 2: 4:14

I feel like it starts from the beginning, because I grew up with very religious parents. I was a pastor's kid and so, yeah, I made. My parents were in the faith. My mom grew up in as a Christian. My dad was not so much but came to church in his late twenties and then they hooked up my mom and my dad they're like here's a good woman and here's a new man that's come to church. And then I was came a few years later. So I feel like I grew up in the church with a strong religious background. So I don't really remember anything the way I felt really, but I just remember that religion was very much part of our lives Because I was trying to remember if I had any personal feelings about it, but it was really more of a structured rule following do this, don't do this, don't do this kind of thing. I didn't really put a lot more meaning in meaning to it growing up. So we my dad was a pastor when I was in second grade but, yeah, before that I was in Christian education we moved out to Iowa to take our my dad's pastoral role. But as far as what I thought about God, I don't really think I thought about it too much. I was just following the rules, making sure.

Speaker 1: 5:36

I was a good kid. Your dad came to Christianity in his late twenties and then became a pastor, so it was like a takeover his life kind of thing.

Speaker 2: 5:45

Yeah, it was like drug dealer to pastor kind of thing.

Speaker 1: 5:48

It was crazy. And your mom had always been a Christian.

Speaker 2: 5:52

Yeah, so she was a teacher. She went to Glaw, was called Cedar Lake, she was super sheltered. And then she fell in love with my dad, who was super non-sheltered but yeah, and so he kind of, you know, he kind of took that sharp change in his life and he became really intense. He's devout. Is he still a pastor? No, he's not, but he's very involved in the church and my mom's still a teacher in. Adventist education.

Speaker 1: 6:21

So you grew up pretty. I don't know what better word to use, so I'm going to use strict. Was it a strict?

Speaker 2: 6:27

Yeah, strict and sheltered, just very rules focused, at least from my perspective. I had a great childhood. There's nothing I can really complain about as far as I have good parents they're very sincere people and have good hearts. But yeah, I was just very rules focused and I quickly became a perfectionist. I quickly became a performance kid. I got like a B plus in second grade in my math and I cried. As you should have out there you. Yeah right. So yeah, but I mean I remember sitting in church. We had two churches one. They were our apart and I just remember being in church a lot and coloring my little precious moments, coloring books, playing with my little felt and counting how many times my one of the elders would say a certain word or how long the prayers were is just little games we would play. But I was in church a lot and was involved in music a lot as a pastor's kid. They were always like you should play, or violin, you should sing. So a lot of pressure to be involved. Look good, my brother was really bad behavior since toddler on and I think there was a lot of pressure on me to be good, be like, to be well behaved, because he was taking so much of the mental and emotional energy in the home. And I was like I'm just going to be good, I'm going to make sure that I don't stress my parents out and that's got me into this performance based acceptance or just wanting that merit or wanting to stay out of the limelight negatively. I was afraid a little bit because I could see it wasn't going well for my brother. So yeah, I think yeah, I had a good childhood and that's there's, those types of things made me more performance focused along with the very strict religious rules and sheltered ness.

Speaker 1: 8:40

So, as you're growing older and you're thinking our God is something or somebody to you, what did he think about you as you were getting older, maturing, getting to that weird stage where insecurity rules the day? Yeah, who is God?

Speaker 2: 8:58

God to me was I guess it was just someone who loved us but wanted us to follow all the rules, and if you didn't follow the rules then you weren't really in. So you'd have to ask for forgiveness, to get back in and then try harder and then you know kind of the cycle Was there a rule that you thought was arbitrary, or were you like yeah, all these rules make sense. I was a younger kid I didn't think anything about them really. I did think it was strange that some of my friends weren't allowed to do bike riding on Sabbath or swim in the lake or something like that. But we weren't as strict as that. Like we were strict but it was also a beautiful thing. Like we had Friday nights we would do special like a special smoothie drink and we'd have these special cups and we'd have like candles, and so it was not a bad thing, right, like it wasn't a bad experience. And uh oh, we have technical difficulties. So I was a smart kid, so I was doing like very performance based on intellectually. So I was going really hard when it comes to school. But I was the only kid in my class. Pretty much there was two other kids but they weren't interested in going as fast as I was. So I was super focused on just being really good at school and outside of that I was just a tomboy. I was playing with all the older boys at recess. I was playing football, just super active, like in athletically, and I remember even in one of my conferences my teacher said that I needed to stop like chasing around the boys or I needed to stop letting the boys chase me around. There was some shame put on me about hanging out with the older boys but, um, I pretty much just kept doing all the things I was supposed to do, working forward in my school. I like got to jump up many grades in certain subjects. My brother he ended up going to public school because his behavior was not really the behavior that could be in a K through 12 class with one teacher. So he went to public school so he could have more resources. And my mom was a public school teacher at that time because they already had a church school teacher when we moved there. So I think they were just working on his behavior and trying to figure out what was going on with him. And I was just like I'm going to be good, I'm going to get be really good at school, I'm going to follow all the rules, going to not get any attention on me unless it's good, positive attention. And then, yeah, I started having crushes on boys. There was like only three boys to choose from. But I had a good, I had a good life. I played outside a lot, did gymnastics, and let's see. Then I know that I got into this crush and I remember we emailed or something back then. I don't know what we were doing AOL or email and my parents found emails and this probably was more like fifth grade right, and they were upset. I think it was probably just we should hold hands and I remember they were so upset so that was a big issue, so my crush was a problem, so that then I felt like they put a lot of like no, no, no on me. It was very more shame and guilt kind of thing. We don't do that. That was a tough spot for me as a fifth grader. But then we moved back to Michigan and my dad went to school, my mom got a job at the village and that's where I got my friends and everything there finally stayed in one place for a longer time, because before that we had been moving around all over Michigan through growing up. So sixth grade, get to a new school, have no friends. The only person I kind of knew was Serena, because our moms had known each other in college. They were college roommates, but Serena was in a different grade than me and I didn't really know her that well anymore. That's when I started getting involved in leadership kind of stuff, because it was the thing Like you played an instrument and you got involved in praise and you got involved in sports. That's when I started playing basketball. But yeah, at this point I was highly competitive, highly independent. I don't really think my parents they thought that I was doing really good on paper and so they just let me do what I wanted to do. As long as I was getting good grades. They were like, okay, I think it's because they were so distracted by my brother who they were diagnosing with ADHD and he was getting in trouble all the time and it was taking up a lot of their attention and I looked like I was doing great and I probably was. I was getting good grades and everything was going well. But I think in looking back, it's always just developing an addiction to performance and perfection and just that constant cycle. But yeah, I was super competitive and just crushing on boys, not really thinking too much about God, just was following the rules. I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing and got involved in spelling bees and all the things. So I feel like I was doing good and feeling good and I thought I was just a normal kid that liked boys. High school was when I felt like it got a little different.

Speaker 1: 15:03

So what happened in high school.

Speaker 2: 15:06

I think in high school I just realized I didn't want to follow the rules, so I think that when did that hit you?

Speaker 1: 15:16

When were you like these are trash? When did that hit you?

Speaker 2: 15:22

Yeah, I think in high school, just up until then I was just, I was sheltered and the rules were so good and we had a great family upbringing with all the rules and everything. But then I started seeing other kids and what they were doing and they weren't following the rules as much. I think I just got exposed to a different way of life and I think, because I didn't have a really solid personal like, I didn't have a like. God was not personal to me growing up. It was just like a religion that I was supposed to follow to stay in this club. So in high school I was like a leader and involved in things and I was one of the only two freshmen to get on the basketball team and so I thought it was cool. I was like I've arrived, all my hard work and it was going well. I had at that point I had gotten stronger in the rules a little bit before it took a turn Like I went way into the rules, like I was reading, I kissed dating goodbye. I was like besties with one of the pastor's daughter and we were like making all these promises to God and signing these contracts and probably never kiss somebody before I get married like going in so and and it was good. She was my best friend at that point and we were on the same page and I was highlighting that book like it was the Bible and yeah, and for me it was just like the rules right At eighth grade and still on the rules freshman year, I'm still thinking about, okay, the rules. Now I'm starting, even though I was crushing on on boys and stuff I was always boy crazy I still wanted to follow the rules. So that book was just more rules and more regimen.

Speaker 1: 17:19

And then when did the rules stop becoming appealing to you?

Speaker 2: 17:25

Probably that year. So I went so far reading that book and making all these promises and then, through basketball, we had a girls team and a guys team and since I was the youngest player on the team, I was around a lot of older seniors and everything. But the boy that I ended up liking was not in our school, he was from like a different town, and so basically that's when it switched. I had this older guy in my life that was liking me. I was 15, he was 18 or maybe almost 18. And then literally I was like I did not want to follow the rules. I was like goodbye For five rules, I don't know. Like it was so drastic from I remember making all those commitments and reading that book to boom. I met this guy and next thing, you know, I'm like doing all the things that I kissed ate and goodbye, I said I would never do so. Yeah, so that was the end of freshman year. I was like I said I was busy, I was playing sports, I was in leadership, I was still doing praise team stuff. But then this guy walks into my life and he has a car and he's not from here and I started lying and I would say I was going to Vespa, as my dad would drop me off and I would really be in the football field making out and I would be like getting a cinema melt at McDonald's and going to one of these random rooms on campus and just like eating my cinema melt with this guy and kissing like in a prayer room or something on campus. It was terrible, like wild. So we were just adventuring around, getting into trouble. But yeah, I just didn't care about the rules at that point because I for me I think it was just this seems so much more attractive. And then trying all the time to try to follow all these things and I just don't think I really understood why I was doing it and I thought, if I'm going to do all this and still not measure up or still question if I'm in or be in and out based off of my performance, then it's not really worth caring about and I'd rather just have fun and just cross my fingers and hope it goes okay because there was no personal relationship. So, yeah, freshman year ended up. I didn't, we didn't have sex, but we did all the other stuff that you could do mostly, but because couldn't have sex before marriage, you can't do that. Cannot do that. That is like the ultimate downhill. You are done, you are. It's over for you. You lose a part of yourself because I had read those books and those books were like, if you do that, you're giving a part of yourself away that you will never get back and you are going to be incomplete forever. So I was like we can't do that. So, yeah, freshman year, I'm just yeah while and out.

Speaker 1: 20:31

I was talking about this on a previous podcast. Sexual immorality is bad because it's it hurts us, it's a sin against our own body. Like we just become attached to somebody that we're not in covenant with and then if one person walks away, like you take the heartache and pain and then you just multiply it several times. But the way purity culture tried to stop it, it was like the scared straight, like we're going to scare you from doing this thing. But what it did, it had opposite effects, because then when the guilt, shame and condemnation comes in, it's too much to bear and people just bounce, they're just like I can't deal with this. And this is coming from the way I've grown up or the way I've thought about it, and so, yeah, not great, right.

Speaker 2: 21:33

Not great? No, yeah, because it definitely felt. Because once I was exposed to those feelings of somebody liking me and wanting me and, honestly, just like this secret rebellion that I never had before right, because I was following all the rules those feelings felt so much more exciting than my commitment to the rules, like the rules were just like why would I do that when I can have this? You know, and around that same time my mom was going through different, like seasonal depression and she had that struggle for a while, but it was to the point where she was not teaching anymore and it was an abrupt thing. So she wasn't teaching anymore. So that meant that I could not go to the academy anymore. So they chose to put me into public school. So I went from the academy which was like kumbaya, everybody loves each other to public school. I had never been in public school my entire life. That was pretty rough. The girls were mean, like I was the new girl and it was tough. So the only person I knew was one of the basketball players from my Andrews team, and so we would walk together from public school to Andrews Academy to go to our practices. So we just became friends, and we were already friends because we were on the basketball team. So I started crushing on him and it was like the only person I knew in public schools. I'd sit with him and his friends and he had been in that town for a long time so he had a lot of friends and so I would sit with him and his friends. The girls didn't like me because I was hanging out with all the boys. They were the only people I knew and the girls were mean. So it was just, it didn't start off well, so I only did one semester there and then started taking all my classes online and took my other classes at the college because they offered that ability to take college courses. So I just took as many college courses as I could and took all my high school classes online and so I was never actually in the building past mid sophomore year. But which was drastically different from where my experience at Andrews Academy, where I was like the president and involved in things and confident and excited and it literally just shook me and I was like introverted, quiet, scared to death to go to school. I would literally listen to Lil Wayne rap songs to get me through the hallways.

Speaker 1: 24:11

Mercy Ludacris was the answer. Yeah, maybe, yeah, see. I don't know.

Speaker 2: 24:17

But Ludacris, lil Wayne, I had all these hype people on my iPod that were helping me get through, like the struggles of that year. But anyways. I'm barely home at this point. As soon as I turned 16, like I had a car, but we also lived really far away, so I was barely ever home, because once I was in town I wasn't going home until it was time to be home for the whole night and we didn't have internet so I was like definitely barely ever home. My mom had whatever her mental health stuff that was being focused on for her and my dad and my brother, so I was just like peace out. I ended up going independent and, to be honest, I got great grades. I was taking all those college classes. I was super involved in basketball. I had a job at 14. Was a bag of 14, a cashier at 16. Yeah, so yeah, it was going okay. Ended up crushing on that guy, ended up dating him from 16 to 21 actually, and yeah, like it was basically the cycle of working basketball, having a boyfriend and pretending that I wasn't doing anything wrong with my boyfriend in line to my parents, and coming home late at night saying it's because I didn't have internet at home so I needed to study and do my online classes and I'd really just be like in his room in the basement. We'd be like watching Netflix or he'd be watching anime and I'd be doing my online class and yeah, and we ended up, yeah, being intimate young, like 16 and a half or something for me, and so basically the rest of my high school, I was just focused on this guy. I joined the track team because he was on the track team. I was at his house more than I was at my house. His mom had a baby when we were at that age and so, like he was had a lot of leadership in his house. His dad wasn't around, so he had three siblings, so we were just there a lot. I was around that, so my whole life basically became about him and his friends. I had one good friend though, serena Weinland.

Speaker 1: 26:28

Serena Weinland shout out, she was the best.

Speaker 2: 26:31

She was my bestie Once we started playing basketball. Right, we became tight and we were not alike at all. I don't even know how she stayed my friend, to be honest, because we were not alike. She was super into her faith, super strong in her Jesus walk and I was super not. I was like peace out gonna be go boy crazy. But she still loved me, so she still stayed my friend.

Speaker 1: 26:53

Did you guys, did you and her talk about? It feels like, besides this guy, it's a pretty lonely experience for you, just how you're describing it. Were you able to talk about some of this stuff like processing, like what's going on and the decisions that you're making, or were obviously you thought the decisions you were making were the right decisions or you wouldn't be making them? How did you deal with all that stuff?

Speaker 2: 27:22

I didn't think they were the right decisions. I think they just felt right because I was probably like feeling lonely or just yeah, I was just doing whatever felt right for me at that time. But I didn't think too much of it. I just was like this is too hard to do the right thing or to do what God wants me to do. This is so I'm gonna just keep doing whatever I wanna do. I didn't really feel guilty about it. I don't think I don't remember feeling bad about it, I felt like this was my person and I was gonna be this person forever. So I was like who cares? But yeah, I don't remember having dialogue about it with Serena. Serena was always just super loving friend. She loved like she was good friends with this guy too. So she was like coming over when I was over there and hanging out with us and we would do things together because he was really into basketball, she was really into basketball, I was really into basketball. Like he would help train her in the summers and things like that. And yeah, I don't think there was anything going on in my head about like processing the decisions. I was just doing the best I could to like be a high achiever in all areas. And I feel like I even thought my boyfriend was like me, high achieving in a way, because he was really popular. He was like really tall, like really fit and really wanted by other people and so I was like high achieving in everything competitive, competition. I think I felt proud of myself like that. I was so independent and so well achieving. Yeah, so what happened? Yeah. Then we ended up breaking up like a couple of years in. That was really hard for me. I felt like I lost all my friends, because all my friends were his friends, except Serena, which she was his friend too, but I still had her. But at that point I was yeah, I was just a wreck. So that was a terrible summer. I ended up getting involved with one of his best friends and it was just terrible. We got in a big fight on my birthday. He dumped me. So that was my 21st birthday, but then from there it went downhill. So I went from having a boyfriend and my whole life being about my boyfriend for four and a half years, five years to not having a boyfriend, being at a university, public university, being 21, being able to do whatever I want, which I was already doing, but now it's 21. So I had more access to do whatever I want and started going out downtown and started making friends and I realized that, oh, people do like me because I think I was super competent freshman year. And then, once I started finding all my validation and affirmation in boys and relationships, I literally lost all of my confidence of thinking I was like a pretty person or an attractive person or that anybody would really even want me. And that's what I think, why I held on to that relationship so tight, because that was all I had as far as in my little teenage brain. Yeah, there were points of that relationship that was not good for my self-image. I had a pretty bad self-image at that point. So I started seeking validation because I was like, oh my gosh, people like me, like boys like me, in the real world. It's like I was in a city and I'm going out drinking. It got a little crazy and I worked at a restaurant downtown and we got in that restaurant, going out after work and sleeping all day kind of thing, and I was still doing well in school, but I was definitely in that party lifestyle as far as going out with my friends. So I ended up at that point I had already been like having sex with that boyfriend for five years. So I just ended up continuing that behavior with all these other people that I would meet and I think the issue is that I felt like sexual anything was attached to my worth. Yeah. So it kind of makes me sad now, but it's okay. I don't want to cry because it's literally done.

Speaker 1: 32:00

No, but that we end up getting worth from what we feel like we can offer. And if we offer this, then I'm acceptable, then I'm loved, and we so desperately want to be loved and we want to be enough, and so this is what I can offer, and it just ends up how we operate, because we want to be loved.

Speaker 2: 32:24

Exactly, exactly. Yeah, I totally wanted to be loved and I felt like I was abandoned from that relationship. Yeah, I just got in the cycle of going out, looking for the cutest guy that I could find in the bar and then going in. I was like I'm gonna talk to this guy, I'm gonna give him my number and I'm gonna either go home with him or he's gonna go home with me, and that just became the kind of like the norm for that year, maybe the rest of that year, and I didn't have any good Christian people around me.

Speaker 1: 33:02

Let's just say that Was God still. Was he just compartmentalized? Was he still in there somewhere? Or was he just not even?

Speaker 2: 33:11

you're not even dealing with who he is yeah, I don't think I wasn't concerned about God at all. I was. After that breakup, I feel like that person became a God or an idol to me in some way, so that's like really all I cared about. And then after that breakup I was like so lost, like I just went spiraled into this cycle of sleeping around and there'd be even times I remember God would go out. And if I didn't have somebody like interested in me or going to some after party or sleeping with somebody or being involved with somebody in some way, I felt like I was a failure that night. I felt like I don't know. It felt like a big deal to me. So I would have these flings and stuff. That some of them would last longer, right, if I wasn't actively with somebody or being pursued by somebody or being validated by somebody, like I felt depressed, like my life sucked.

Speaker 1: 34:14

My buddy, who used to work at a bar, would describe this thing that happens at the end of the night, depending on what time the bar closes If it closes at one or two or something and it's this moment where the lights come on and everyone's hey, it's over, right. And he says, when the lights come on, there's a mad scramble, and the scramble is to find somebody to leave with, and he described it most of the people. They're pretty drunk by then. But he said it was so sad to see people just running around trying to figure out like, oh, who is going to? Who can I be with? Who can I be with? Who can I be with? And as you're describing this situation like there was so much on the line for you, If I don't go home with someone, I'm a failure.

Speaker 2: 35:04

Yeah, so I would definitely solidify my plan as early in the night as possible, like I've had these guys that I knew would be at these places that I had been involved with, and make sure I was knew where I was going as soon as possible. So, yeah, it was very, it was calculated for sure and I was also started smoking weed, which I had never done before. I thought I would never do that. But after that breakup I was just, I think I was just open to whatever numbing I could have. So I started doing that a little bit, but it was never on my own, it was always with other people. I just started saying yes to more and more things. Right, sure, why not? Why not? Yeah, that continued probably for about a year and I ended up feeling pretty broken and honestly, I didn't want to date these guys. It was I was still in love with that ex. At this point I was just like I don't want to date anybody, I want to get back at the male race or whatever for screwing me over, and I was just like I was hardcore. I was like don't want you, don't want you. Even if a guy really was interested in me for more than just superficial, surface level kind of stuff, I didn't want it. I was like nope, I'm in my phase of life where I'm having fun and I'm doing whatever I want. I don't want to be tied down to anybody, you know, and I'm not going to get connected to these people. I'm going to just have fun and live my best life. But yeah, no, there was no Christian friends, I was not going to church. I had no desire to do any of those things. I like Christian or faith things. I was still really good at school, still working a lot, doing all the things, but also being crazy. And yeah, no interest. I was like God, I'm going to do this without you, it's going to be fine. I got me like nobody else really has me. So I got me. So I'm going to keep doing it on my own and yeah, it didn't really change from that for probably about 10 years, 18 to 27,. I was pretty much in that. I'm independent, I'm going to do whatever I want. I'm going to make the choices whatever. I don't need God. I don't want God. It's too hard to be in and out. I never know if I'm secure and I didn't think I could ever be secure in salvation. That was crazy, because my performance was never going to be good enough to be secure in my salvation. I was never going to be good enough long enough to be able to be in Because at that point I had so many cycles of bad behavior. I was like I am far too gone. I was not supposed to have sex before marriage. I have had a lot of sex. I knew that I was done, for I was still friends with Serena, but we were never really in the same place again. We'd stayed up. We would see each other maybe once a year around the holidays and she would talk about Jesus and I'd be like cool, you've been doing this forever. Glad it's working out for you. I'm good. But yeah, I'm trying to think of where to go next, cause after college I ended up dating somebody, moved in with him. He had a kid. We lived in like the ghetto. My car blew up. There was a lot of crazy stuff that happened.

Speaker 1: 38:30

But so you were living your best life while not living your best life, but you thought you were living your best life.

Speaker 2: 38:38

Yeah, I thought I was. Yeah, I was doing it on my own and I was still doing, accomplishing enough things and feeling good about myself. I was having enough small wins in areas that I thought were important to think like I'm doing good, like I lived with my roommates. I had, you know, cool friends that I could go to concerts with. I had a good job that you know made me good money. I just had to work on the weekends and I still did really good in school. I was in clubs, so I was pre-med, so I actually was very studious because I thought I was gonna be a doctor, so I was like I don't make sure I get all the A's and because you can't there's this idea.

Speaker 1: 39:20

There's this idea that living your best life is doing it independently.

Speaker 2: 39:26

Yeah, that was absolutely me.

Speaker 1: 39:28

There's this song that encapsulates that. It's called my Way. It got very famous by Frank Sinatra and in the song he's yeah, I've made mistakes, yeah, I've had a lot of heartbreak yet, but the reason why I'm the man is because I've done all of this my way, I've done it the way I wanted to do it. So, even while there's heartache, pain, breakups but then there's also some good times and because you're independent, because nobody else is helping, you're a strong, independent person then it's success. Yeah, and it wasn't going well.

Speaker 2: 40:07

No, and it wasn't going well. Now that I'm looking back on it, right, but I think, like you said, in the moment, like in those years, I probably thought I was it was going great because there was a lot of things that I was. I was getting validation from so, validation from so many areas, and I had a lot of attention. So in my head I was probably thinking I'm doing real good. And, yeah, I was on that whole. I wanna do it myself. I don't want God to do it for me because I don't really wanna give anybody else the credit. So if I'm gonna be get all these good things in life, I want the accolades and I want the merit and I want to get the attention for it.

Speaker 1: 40:48

It's almost like one of the first lies of sin, or like a root of sin. Is this idea that our happiness, our joy, has to be brought by us Like we have to do it. Our happiness and joy, and it's on us to do it, and so I must figure it out. And, as you're, I was just watching this kid the other day and I think the lie just comes in from Jump Street, because one of the most important things and you're a nanny, you might understand this, even at a deeper level than I do when my kids are older but everything has to be done by myself. I did it, by myself, I did it, and so this lie that permeates from the jump is that our happiness, our joy, our success? It we have to do it. Apart From anything else, we have to figure it out. Yeah. And it just ends in some sadness.

Speaker 2: 41:51

Yeah, and I heard a lot of people too that guy that I moved in with I broke his heart. I definitely was not Caring about other people, but I also didn't really. If you look back in my high school I really didn't care about other people that much, like I was hurting my friends. I was like getting involved with Like people that my friends had liked and before that relationship, so yeah it was. I was very out for myself, good or bad, like I needed to be feel good and However I got that feeling I didn't care who was in, who was who got destroyed. Really I had also been Very money motivated. I was doing a lot of side hustles. Before that, like in college, I started doing side hustles. I was a romance consultant, which is basically like parties for sexy things. So that was how I was making side money, because I was like women empowerment I'm gonna help women be more satisfied with their lives and we don't need a man, even though I felt like I needed a man every part of my life. Pretty much. So I was side hustling. I met this couple who were really great and they took me under their wing and that kind of pushed me to move out from this Situation and it was actually one of the best things that happened to me in my life. Like I had a couple that was invested in me from financial and emotional like perspective and I could run things through them, and they were Christians. So I started going to like leadership conferences and reading leadership books and personal growth and development and you know me, it was a high achiever. So I was like personal growth and development all in, dropped my other side hustles and went in on this whole like network marketing thing and it was good because these people were Christian. A lot of the talks I listened to every day were faith-based Christian people. So I started hearing all these concepts of just God did it for me. God helped me through a blah, blah, blah God, but I was just like I'm still gonna do it without God, I'm gonna be the one who's gonna build this business, gonna become a millionaire without God. Because I wanted the attention and I wanted the. I didn't want to give any other credit to someone else. I realized a few years in that that was not gonna work. But I struggled, trying to like find enough commitment and discipline and All the umph to do all the things I needed to do to be successful. I graduated college. Didn't want to go to med school at that time I'd worked in the hospitals. I didn't think that was. I was committed to that route. I also had this network marketing thing which I thought I was gonna be a millionaire in anyway. So I was like good, I ended up working random jobs but I stayed in the, the business, built the business a little bit but never really saw a lot of success from it. Because I was so struggling with being disciplined enough, being committed enough, doing all the things and I had really never struggled with that before, like I was a pretty high performer, so that was tough on me. So I would say Then that was around covid time. I was still getting into relationships with people that weren't working out well for me. I had another relationship that ended up being a guy that was lied to me about everything. And then covid happened. At this point I had got out of the corporate world and I had decided what could bring me joy. That was a job. And that's when I started nannying, because I didn't like the corporate world. So I jumped into nannying. I was nannying a newborn Baby, and then that was to end of 2019. And then 2020 happened and I was working 60 plus hours a week and nannying this one baby. Like me and this baby were tight and all of a sudden we got even more tight because then I wasn't hanging out with anybody. You know, I was just hanging out with this baby and still trying to build this business right, because that didn't stop. And so let me think then, 2020, covid that's when I started. So that summer, 2020, covid that's when I was in that relationship with the guy ended up. I was thought I was in love with him. It was like six months, covid. It was literally the most isolating time. So we just became super attached. And then I found out he was lying to me about his name, his age, his past, and this was like fall of 2020. And so I basically just had this guy and then this baby that was nannying. And then this guy I found out was a complete liar and he had reinvented himself. He said, but it was yeah. So then that was fall 2020 and I was brokenhearted because so the world was right, the world was brokenhearted and I was brokenhearted and it was covid. So serena had been asking me To get on the bible study for a while.

Speaker 1: 47:02

So she, you and her had still been buddies and she like reaches out randomly and just like you should come to this thing and it probably sounds like the least appealing thing at all of all time 100%, 100%.

Speaker 2: 47:14

Yeah, we were actually spending like becoming more close, yeah. But also that's when I met lorraine. Spring of 2020, while I'm dating this guy, I met lorraine, which was crazy, because lorraine called me on a FaceTime call and I had never talked to this girl except one time in college. I had met her at a hot tub thing. We were all hanging out at the hot tub and I didn't like her and she didn't like me.

Speaker 1: 47:40

Lorraine, you didn't like Lorraine, no no, I didn't like her.

Speaker 2: 47:43

What's? That's a lie.

Speaker 1: 47:44

She's the best she was. She was a different person back then.

Speaker 2: 47:47

Yeah she was. She was a prudent kind of christian person and me at the time I didn't want to be around any christian prude people, so I didn't like her. But then when she called me on facebook, I answered and it was like nine o'clock at night on a weekday and she Was like hey, I'm at this bar, do you want to come hang out? And I said no, I have to work work at 6 am Tomorrow. And I was like, but we can hang out another time. And so we started hanging out and we became besties like real quick.

Speaker 1: 48:23

Was she still married at the time?

Speaker 2: 48:26

No, she had. Her divorce was not finalized at that time, but she had been separated from him, moved out for a while. So yeah, covid was happening. We became besties for the listener.

Speaker 1: 48:38

If you don't know who Lorraine is, go back into season two. I think it is early season two and her story is wild, is one of my favorites. Check it out, it's Lorraine, but sorry, keep going.

Speaker 2: 48:50

Yeah, okay, yeah. So we became good friends. It was just nice to have a friend. She lived close by and, yeah, I knew she was more christian than me. I wasn't christian at all. I did at this point I believe there was a god, but I didn't want any part of it. I wanted to get the credit right. But then after that told me and Lorraine become friends, were hanging out all the time, covid's happening, things are shutting down, were just spending a ton of time together. Then I had that breakup, found out that guy was lying about everything. And Finally Serena's keeps asking me to come on these bible studies and I'm just like no. But then Lorraine was really more christian than me and I was like she probably like this bible study and she probably likes Serena and I feel like maybe they could all be friends and I don't really want any part of this. I told Lorraine about it, but I didn't think she would get on unless I got on. I was like I'm getting on the study, I think you should get on this study. And then I got on because I didn't. Yeah, I wanted her to get on and I wanted her to be exposed to whatever Serena was exposed to, because Serena seemed to be having a great life and she seemed happy, regardless of her circumstances. And I think there was a little bit of me that was like that too, like she was pretty well rooted and my life was always like a roller coaster and I was just as good as it was going. So there was definitely a pull there where I was like she has something that I don't have. But I also didn't want to follow the rules like she did. I was like she's so good, she's so good, she's always been good. There's no way that I could be that way. I'm definitely not as good as her and I definitely have performed Bad in the moral categories and I knew she had done taken a pretty good moral pathway. I didn't think I was going to be good enough, so I was like I'll just get on for Lorraine because she seems like she would like this community and she seems like she would like this, so I get on. They were four, four guys in florida that started this bible study on what friday nights and also friday night was the night that me and Lorraine would go out. It was improbable that we would be available, but things were shutting down probably at that point, so maybe we didn't have anywhere to go. We got on. They started talking about good stuff. Everybody was happy and nice and I was like, oh, lorraine's gonna love this and but it was. It was really cool because people were like Liking their lives and having a good time in this study and they were. They seemed to be happy. And my experience with the church was and that was just rules and things and following rules and there wasn't really like a lot of happiness associated with it or joy, so it was really different than what I had experienced and I was like these guys can't be for real, they must be doing bad stuff. But I don't know. I just kept coming on because it was intriguing, because everyone was talking a little bit differently than the way that I had interpreted my religion. And, yeah, I just kept getting on and started asking questions. I think, or maybe I think, I just heard you say Are you the righteousness of God and Christ? So many times I was like super scared you were gonna ask me.

Speaker 1: 52:09

But Did I ever ask you?

Speaker 2: 52:13

I don't think so. I think that I ended up. I know that you probably did it a different way. Maybe it wasn't that specific thing because, like, maybe the Holy Spirit knew that I was like. No, but I know that I ended up talking at one point Maybe this was more in December, I think, like November, december of 2020 and I ended up asking some questions and I think you and Nicholas and Connor definitely spoke up and Zach, I was just starting trying to piece some things together and see if this was real.

Speaker 1: 52:42

basically, what do you feel like you were learning? What was the difference?

Speaker 2: 52:47

I think the main thing that I first noticed Was that everybody was confident in, confident in this, whatever this belief was, and they were well rooted, it seemed, and what I was learning Was I think mostly it must have been the roman stuff, but it was all identity, just identity, and who you are, and that, and at that time I was also starting to watch the love reality waves. At the pdc, because I was like, okay, I'll get into this and start watching this stuff because this is actually interesting and if this is true, this identity stuff is true, that I'm like a daughter of christ, that I'm righteous, that I'm a new creation, that I get to stand in that confidence and it's not actually about my behavior that saves me, and that I'm not in and out and in and out and up and down, and that I actually couldn't have a secure salvation. That I was like, if this is true, I should probably learn about this, at least to figure out, like where the fault is or if there's like some there's. I didn't know if it could be true, so I was just going to look into it and kept keep coming to see what else I could learn.

Speaker 1: 54:04

You're like, if I really am the righteousness of God and Christ, that's big.

Speaker 2: 54:09

I was like that definitely doesn't seem true. But also I was seen, like I said, serena's life and even I was still in this mentorship program and they were doing well and they had relationships with God or some type of christian faith and they were happy, successful people and so I was. Maybe I need to Bring God into the picture because I'm not really having that much success in my life right now. I'm like I didn't have a good job. I had a good job on nanny is actually a great job but like it wasn't what I had planned for my life right, so my life didn't go the way I planned. So I was definitely at the point where I'm like I'm broken, my plan has not gone. I guess I do need a little help. Maybe this whole self focused Ending thing is not really that great after all, because I definitely was so hardcore in that I was going to do it all for myself. I got to the point where I was like I kind of want what they have, my mentors. I kind of want what serena has. Even Lorraine she was happier than me Seemed a little more hopeful, right, more hopeful, and so I wanted that hope in my life and I think that's what kept me going right. I was like, okay, I feel a little more hope, maybe I can be in. Maybe I don't think I can be in because of my performance in the past, but they're saying that I'm righteous, they're saying that I have a new identity or I can have that. They're saying that I'm a daughter of Of christ or daughter of god. And I was like this is whack, but like it's good, but it sounds really whack.

Speaker 1: 55:45

Because you couldn't be in because of your performance, so that, like just trying to balance that out, like that can't be true.

Speaker 2: 55:54

Yeah, like I've definitely gone way too far down the rabbit hole of sin and sexual immorality to ever be able to make it back in. Like I would have to be good for so long Think about the last 10 years I would have to be good for 20 to make up for that and I thought that was impossible. Right, I did not think that it was possible for me to be like anything pure for any period of time. But yeah, but then you guys were saying that it wasn't actually about that and that was really refreshing. It was my whole life I had been about follow the rules, don't mess up. You're going to lose parts of yourself if you do and you're going to have to rely on God to give you this forgiveness. And I didn't even want to rely on anybody. It was radically different than the way that the faith had been presented to me my entire life and, granted, I had a great upbringing, very religious faith based upbringing, right, yeah, radically different. Everybody was super cool and I thought they were a little weird. I thought it was a little bit much, but it was something I still wanted. It was weird but it was good, but yeah. So basically that December, november, december of 2020, I was coming to the Bible studies. I was asking questions here and there I was talking to Serena about it a little bit, but Serena, I also felt like Serena was just too good. I needed somebody who had been through some stuff. I needed more than a good story of good behavior. So I was seeking that validation. Okay, if somebody else got in that did bad stuff, then maybe I could talk to that person. But I just kept coming and you guys kept saying good stuff. And then Connor called me, I think in January. We talked on the phone and he walked me through some things and I remember him. He was just saying stop being so sin focused and just be son focused, because the part that was an issue for me like all this identity stuff and everything was so great and sounded awesome and I was like this is great, this is true. But I was like but what about my life that's still full of sin right now, that I can't just wake up tomorrow and just be like completely different person? I didn't think that was possible and I still had addictions to like different things, like drinking. I thought I was addicted to sex too, like that was where I was finding my worth, right. So I was like I can't, what am I going to do? Just not be in relationships forever, not have that behavior. And I also had like different horns in my life that I was now getting addicted to, because now I was alone. So now I still needed to have some satisfaction, satisfied myself in a way, like sexually, to feel good about myself. So, yeah, I didn't think that like my life could look good enough right to be able to accept all this truth, and I was like I got to stop doing all these things before I can really accept this truth. But then Connor was like no, just focus on God, focus on the Holy Spirit, believe these things, and then you will become more like Christ. You're just a baby and as babies grow, they become more like their parents and so, as a new creation, as we being reborn, you're just, you're going to learn how to look more like your dad. And that was pretty impactful for me because I'm like, oh, I don't have to be perfect right now. I don't have to be perfect before I get this righteousness. I can grow in it, I can focus on it and it'll be okay. So at that point I felt like I got free. I was like January I got free. Me and Lorraine were on this freedom train together. We were just like, oh yeah, this is so cool, it was fun and she was becoming good friends with Serena. We were all just vibing out to this freedom stuff. But I remember there was a point where we were like me and Lorraine were like, so we're free. I don't know, we were just like, are we free? But we were still figuring it out right. But yeah, and I wasn't giving up some of my addictions because I was just like I'm sure it'll work out. I just stopped focusing on it, right, I just stopped feeling shame and guilt about it, but I wasn't giving up things. I wasn't defining my performance and allowing that to give me shame anymore or guilt. I decided that I would believe that I was in, that I was new and I would focus on that and renew my mind in those things and not focus on the sin, like Connor told me. I was like I can do that and we'll see what happens. And yeah, so that was great. And then you guys came out. I decided to get baptized, baptized.

Speaker 1: 1:00:56

That was that weekend. Right yeah, In the freezing water.

Speaker 2: 1:00:59

Yeah, I had never been baptized because I was like I'm not gonna let your parents there for that. Yeah, they came. Yeah, I mean, they had been pressuring me to get baptized I feel like probably my entire life, but I didn't want to just get baptized because my dad told me to, which is surprising. But yeah, so I never got baptized. I got baptized that weekend. You guys came out. You did a three-day event. It was really awesome. But at this point I had been on the freedom train and I was like excited and I was just like blowing people out of the water, you know, like a lot of people do, and my dad thought I was nuts. He was like this love reality thing, I don't know about it. He was not really pumped about it at all, but it was really great. It was a good experience.

Speaker 1: 1:01:51

It was awesome.

Speaker 2: 1:01:53

It was. It was so cool Then. I don't even know that summer, trying to think what happened next, I was walking out this freedom thing for a while and I started giving up the stuff, the bad stuff, throwing out all the paraphernalia. I guess you would call it throwing out thousands of dollars worth of things that were no longer necessary. And then Serena had moved to Chicago. I was like maybe I should move to Chicago. So I ended up. She prayed about it, I prayed about it. We were talking a lot more. I moved to Chicago, lived with her for yeah, lived with her for about six months. It was so fun, we had the best time. It was like such a good roommate because we were both on the same freedom stuff. We were both on Bible studies. It was really good for me to have that influence in my life and it was radically different from any way I've ever lived before. Right, Because I was pumped and she was pumped. So I'm living with Serena and starting to listen to the Bible podcast. I'm listening to your podcast, just super involved in good community. And at that point I'd met Eddie and Jaila. Eddie would call me here and there and it was great. It was also hard because I had moved away from that baby that I had raised for a while, but I was getting through it.

Speaker 1: 1:03:21

I was getting through it. Eddie was so happy that baby shout out to that baby. I like how you just say the baby.

Speaker 2: 1:03:28

Her name was Mary. He was precious, anyway, living with Serena, having a great time. We were watching the chosen and making banana ice cream and just having the best time Like besties. We never got to live together before. We never got to spend a lot of time together like this before because we were always in different places. And yeah, and then we signed a lease for two years in this house. We were in an apartment, we signed a lease for a house and then, next thing, you know, jonathan comes into the picture three months after I moved there and the next thing, you know, she's going to get married. And yeah, it was crazy because I was like we had a plan. We were supposed to be here for two years. I had a plan. I felt like it was, I had made good choices, it was going to be solid. And then it was like ripped out from under me because now we couldn't live there. Like she was going to move and marry Jonathan and I was like what am I going to do, right, like I just I don't want to stay here, if you know she's not going to be here because I'm going to get another roommate, and like I just this doesn't make sense. So it was tough for me, to be honest, because I was. I thought we had a plan and then a plan went south. But it was beautiful. It was really awesome to see their love story and, yeah, we'd both decided to move back because I missed my baby. I missed my baby. She was getting married. The people that I had, the baby's parents, were going to Europe for two months and they wanted me to come with them because they missed me. I moved back to Michigan. Serena moved back to Michigan, but separate places now and I don't know what. What happened? But like I had been struggling a little bit here and there, like I would have a behavior mishap and then I would go into secret place and I would figure it out and be like I'm still good, I'm still good, and then I might have another behavior mishap and I was working through behavior things and then when I got, I also had Serena there, which was great to bounce things off of, and had a really great experience in my life. Yeah, it was awesome. And so then when I moved back to Michigan, I didn't really have that anymore and which shouldn't have been my main source, right, but I was still working through the secret place thing. I was developing habits and trying to figure out how to hear God's voice. And did I hear it? I think I heard it, yeah, I heard it. I was back and then quickly being on my own again, the guy came into my life and I got distracted and then, yeah, then I went to Europe for two months and in Europe I had pretty rough experience with the family I nannied, for it just didn't go how either of us expected and they had expectations on me that I did not realize. So it was pretty unisolating experience, because I'm in a foreign country, I don't know the language, I'm with people who are not treating me well for two months and there's a time difference, so I wasn't plugging into the Bible studies anymore, I wasn't talking to any of my community, because they would wake up when it was already three o'clock in France and then they wouldn't really be available till I was already in bed. So like I was like 11 o'clock when they'd be getting off of work. So basically I was just isolating. I was isolated and having a bad time and then the guy that I had started seeing in the fall when I moved out with Serena out of with Serena or whatever he started being my primary influence of like encouragement, because I had wasn't getting on the Bible studies, I wasn't talking to community, I was in a foreign country and then he was one of the only people that was consistently messaging me and calling me and checking up on me and so, yeah, when I was in Europe for two months, I was struggling because I was fighting pretty much every day for, like, my rights with this family and trying to have balance and trying to not be taken advantage of, and then I was being influenced highly by this guy that was talking to me every day and I was a super vulnerable place and I just attached on to this guy and I wasn't really spending time with God anymore. I don't know if I was like. I think I was frustrated because I think I started believing the lie that, like Serena got a husband, because she was better than me and I'm not going to cry again. But yeah, it sucked because I was like she's been so good for so long and waited for four years praying for her husband. So of course she got a husband and I was still struggling with behavior here and there and had been so off the path for so long. I was like I'm definitely not going to get that and being having that first row seat to that was so beautiful. But also I think it just opened up a way for a saint to be like but that's not for you, there's no way, you're not worthy. So I think there was resentment, like for sure, and then being isolated and stuff, and just he was a perfect soil in a way for those lies to grow. And yeah, they grew and my influence was this guy. He wasn't even a Christian, he was Muslim, so that was the whole thing. So I get back from Europe and quit my job because I knew that they weren't treating the way that they should and I move in with this guy, this Muslim guy, because at that point I had spent two months pretty much just falling in love with him over FaceTime and whatever, and moving with him. It's actually Ramadan as soon as I move in, which means he's holier than thou during that time. Right, you follow all the rules in Islam culture during Ramadan at a higher standard than you generally do. You fast all day and things like that. I was there for that whole thing and I thought, wow, he's so devout, he's really, he's really into this. This is, this, is it for him. So maybe I should look into this. So I started looking into Islam and I started doubting all of my Christianity because I was like maybe Jesus wasn't real and it's crazy. I just went down this rabbit hole. I got to figure out the truth here, because if I'm, if I was wrong, I need to be for sure. So it was a rabbit hole and he was also not the greatest person, so I was not in a good situation Like he was. There was a lot of emotional abuse there and it was tough, but I was in such a vulnerable place from that experience in Europe that I think I just I was just yeah, it was just an easy target for him. So then he was influencing me, trying to cut me off from my friends. He didn't want me to be friends with Lorraine. He didn't want me to be friends with Serena, any of my good friends? He didn't. He was like no, like they're bad for you. Yeah, can't you see it? They're terrible for you, can you believe? She said this to you. And so I was disconnecting from my friends. When I got back, I wasn't in the same town as my friends and this guy was basically isolating me even further and it got real bad. And so three months of that and I realized now that he is a lot. He's what you would categorize as a narcissist and love bombing me while I'm in Europe, putting all this effort and all this great stuff and while I'm in Europe. And then, as soon as I was super attached to him, it was just like switched up the game when Ramadan was over, switched up the game. He was a completely different person in a bad way. So, but that point, I was already so attached to him. Right, I was living there, I was attached to him and I was like, okay, I guess I got to make this work. So two months of that and then I realized I was losing myself completely. I didn't know what I believed in, I didn't have it. I wasn't spending time with my friends, I didn't have any values, I just was allowing myself to accept things that he wanted me to accept.

Speaker 1: 1:12:04

Was freedom somewhere in the background? Was it in the back of your mind? This is a thing that I had really believed for a while. What is this thing changing? Are the truths of those things changing, or are they not?

Speaker 2: 1:12:18

Yeah, I think what it was is that I just started believing that it was too good to be true, because I started believing that, oh, they just talk a good talk, they just speak truth over things. They don't actually really help people with their problems. Right, speaking truth is not good enough. We need to really figure out how to be better or how to figure out our problems and how to get through things. I was like I convinced myself that all that experience was just fluffy. I would say that a lot. I was like it was just fluffy but, it didn't actually solve any problems, because I didn't get anything that I wanted. I think after seeing Shreena get married I was like it's not going to happen. For me it must just be a bunch of fluffy talking, speak truth over it and move on. I didn't feel like people were really actually addressing the issues, because I remember at one point they were like you need to choose to believe it. I think Addy said to me you have to believe even if you don't know all the answers. Choose to believe without all the answers. This guy was like no, you need to find the answers. Why would you ever believe something without understanding it? Come fully. I just started thinking that the whole freedom thing was just a fluffy way of living but wasn't actually real. I thought I'd just convince myself that.

Speaker 1: 1:13:52

I don't know you were really praying for you during this time we were, because it's not we're blind or we know when. Oh, like, where's Emily? Ann and I would ask Lorraine and I would ask Shreena, and I think I messaged you one time. I think that I go back in my phone. You and Addy both messaged me, and it was let me see if I can find it.

Speaker 2: 1:14:19

No, I literally read it last night, Richard. I did not reply. I think you were just like, hey, what's up? And I just didn't reply. I remember even when I lived with Shreena, towards the end of us moving out, you tried calling me and I never called you back.

Speaker 1: 1:14:36

Yeah, I just wanted to know if you, because I knew what was going on. I knew that there was some lies, some stuff going on, but it was. You were in a tough spot.

Speaker 2: 1:14:50

Yeah, you definitely reached out. Addy reached out and I just ignored it because I was like they're just going to speak truth or say there's been some truth over me, and they're going to tell me to believe it and it's going to be fluffy and it's not going to do anything.

Speaker 1: 1:15:09

What was this? This was in. This was in 2021. Is it June? We have one in August. Do we have one in June? Oh yeah, no.

Speaker 2: 1:15:21

August, August makes sense. I remember you were, so this would be before I was in Europe. This was like I think you were probably reaching out because what was going on with Shreena and Jonathan and it probably would have been good for me to call you, but yeah, I said I think I need someone to testify, I think it's you and you said I don't think it's me, I'm a hot mess. So that was when I was yeah, that's when I was probably struggling with like behavior, like I was living with Shreena and I had gone downtown and I had slept with somebody that I that was. It was crazy and I was like, oh no, this isn't real, like I'm still doing bad stuff.

Speaker 1: 1:16:02

And I want to talk. I want to talk about that. I just I'm trying to find this thing. I don't know. There's so many social media things that we speak on. Oh, is it this or is this the other one? But here's the thing Sometimes people they'll talk about freedom and they'll say well, what happens If or not? If someone actually said, when you guys mess up, cause you're going to mess up, what's going to happen when one of you guys messes up? And if you or I mess up, emily, does that mean that the Bible doesn't say what it says? Does that mean that Romans six doesn't exist, or Colossians three doesn't exist, or second Corinthians five doesn't exist? It doesn't mean any of those things. It might mean that we were not living by it. It probably for sure. But it like the times that I have messed up in my life and here's a spoiler alert While walking in freedom or understanding the gospel, I have lived from a place where I've just understood it and it hasn't been like minister to me, from the secret place. It's been like, oh, I've, just because I'm teaching in. It's come from like a head knowledge and not from intimacy with my father. And I have messed up. But the times I've messed up have not come from because I was being like living from secret place. The times I've messed up is because I fell back into a former pattern and I had years of feeling sorry for myself when stuff would come up. And so nobody and I've said this a lot, nobody has to teach me how to feel sorry for myself. I know how to feel sorry for myself. It's locked in. And, in the same way, nobody has to teach you how to whatever the root is to feel less valuable, to feel like you're not enough. No one has to say, hey, emily Ann, this is how. If you wanna feel not enough, this is how you can do it. Or if you wanna feel like you don't matter, if you wanna feel like you don't have value, you should do it like this. No, that's locked in, you know how to do that and so. But it isn't those times that you have fallen. It isn't because the Bible doesn't say what it says. It's because there had been a lie, a distraction or a former pattern that was so easy for you to fall into.

Speaker 2: 1:18:38

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, I think the desire, the desire to be validated and affirmed by a guy, was a varied oil machine. Yeah, and I didn't necessarily know what that looked like in freedom. Maybe I saw, and then I saw it right. Then I saw it right in front of my face with Serena and Jonathan and then I was like that doesn't seem realistic. But yeah, so I was figuring that out. I definitely did not figure it out for a while and that's why I think I fell back into a pattern of old. I was in a vulnerable state. I didn't root myself in the truth. I let a lie faster and grow and slippery slope when, because I didn't renew my mind and the truth. And I think the further away that you get from renewing your mind, the more it just feels maybe not real or you convince yourself that it wasn't real. And if you're not going, if I wasn't going back into my secret place notes and reading it anymore, I was like put that notebook away. I wasn't reading the books, the good books. I was reading Like I was not putting any good things in.

Speaker 1: 1:20:01

It's the addictions so, like we're talking about addictions, I've had an addiction to feeling sorry for myself and I've had an addiction to nostalgia, meaning like that the past was better in my mind than whatever it was. And so I used to fantasize about the past, on if I could change this or if I could do that, and I would spend all my mind like my the time, like we were constantly thinking, and whatever our mind is set on is what's going to become stronger. And so if you're fantasizing about a past that you wish you could change, or fantasizing about this or fantasize about that, then like you get like relief or you get some kind of reward from it, then you can't live in truth. And so I had to break my addiction to nostalgia. I had to break my addiction to feeling sorry for myself so that I could, and that addiction gets broken by setting your mind and things above where Christ is hidden or Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

Speaker 2: 1:21:07

Yeah, yeah, and I think, like me stepping away from spending time with God, like if you stop investing into a relationship with anybody, you know, if I stop investing into a friendship, it's not gonna be on my mind a lot, it's just like fizzles out. If I stop investing in now, does God stop pursuing me? No, obviously, because there's more to this story. You guys were praying for me, like Serena Lorraine. Everybody was worried about me, like God was, and God pursues us through other people and through personally too. So it's like, even though I wasn't committed to God, like God was still committed to me.

Speaker 1: 1:21:51

But you weren't committed because of a lie.

Speaker 2: 1:21:54

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:21:56

Like. You're a sincere person. You've always been. You've wanted truth, and so what was true during that whole time is God still felt the same exact way about you, yeah, and he's just loving you.

Speaker 2: 1:22:14

Even though I was literally questioning the existence of Jesus, like I was reading a book about the fact that Jesus was not the Son of God, like it was crazy and I was definitely just trying to figure out a way to make it not real so that I could maybe find more comfort in the situation I was in. Mercy God got out of that.

Speaker 1: 1:22:37

Now I'm in this other situation.

Speaker 2: 1:22:39

Let me find a way to make it comfortable. Let me find a way to make my own rogue behavior comfortable for me mentally right. I had to figure out a way to sit with this like path of deterring from the truth. I had to figure out a way to make that truth, that real truth, that reality true to me in my heart Because, yeah, I did have a great experience in freedom. I did have a great year. Now that I wasn't in that, I was trying really hard to convince myself that all of that was false and putting a lot of effort into that.

Speaker 1: 1:23:20

And you could have done it, and that's why not. There is a miracle what we're talking about here, Cause you could have done it. There's nothing. It wasn't set in stone that you were going to see through the lies. It wasn't. But we are on the Dead to Light podcast.

Speaker 2: 1:23:45

Yeah, and I mean I was like, I was like I'm proud of you.

Speaker 1: 1:23:47

And you have seen this thing for to be true.

Speaker 2: 1:23:49

Yeah, and I think the prodigal son was like peace out, dad, I'm gonna go do my own thing and be rogue and be on my own adventure. And I'm sure that there was probably times where he was a citizen of the other place, right, that he was trying to figure out how to make that comfortable, and then eventually he realized that wasn't comfortable and then he's I gotta go back home. That was where it was good. There was a lot of inner turmoil, yeah, just trying to make sense of learning about this different religion, learning about Islam, being in a relationship with this guy, not knowing if Jesus is real anymore. But at the root core of me I was like, yeah, the reason why I was trying was so hard because I knew deep down that it was true. But me and my whole independent, let me figure it out for myself I just went into that pattern of behavior. Let me just go so far into things for myself that this God thing doesn't matter anymore. So ended up not going well for me, like that relationship was awful, like I pretty much lost. I felt like I lost myself, but when I look back at my journal I still prayed a little bit Like it wasn't that I didn't believe there was a God. I just didn't know what the right religion was. I was like there's still God, whether it's a law or God. Like there's still God out there. I just don't know what I'm supposed to be doing. So I still prayed and but it wasn't yeah, it wasn't on the forefront of my mind. So, anyways, the relationship ended because I felt like I lost myself. I visited my friends here in Chicago. They asked me to go to a wedding with them to watch their kids at the wedding, and they're strong Christians. I told them about this relationship. I was in they're like sounds like a lot of red flags. They loved me and were very kind and just helped me realize things I wasn't seeing with this relationship. And so I went back, realized a lot of things ended the relationship and they had already asked me to come with them on a trip. So I came with these friends here in Chicago and at that point I was like maybe I should just live with them for a while, cause they're like if you want a nanny or kids for the summer, you totally can. And I was like maybe I should do that because I don't have anywhere to go. I pretty much don't have any friends cause I had burnt bridges, tried to burn bridges with Serena and Lorraine. Lorraine was not going to let me burn that bridge, neither was Serena, but I was trying to. I was like no, and so came here, started nanny in Chicago. Great, safe place for me, right, like good people, good parents, good marriage, christian household and at this point I still was like I don't really believe in this Christian stuff. I don't think anymore. But it's a good environment for me, a safe place, and I ended up staying longer than the summer. Obviously, it's been over a year now that I'm still here. Me ended up saying you can live here as long as you want. I was having a great time. So I decided to keep living here and we had checked in over the last year and it all was going great. But I had started dating a little bit like here and there online, and then the thing that changed everything is my dating wasn't going that great.

Speaker 4: 1:27:10

I'm not sure if I'm going to get a date, but I'm not sure if I'm going to get a date. Hey, Gospel Junkies, Justin here. And I have some good, good news. If you've been a fan of the podcast for any length of time, you've probably heard of mention of this thing called Wave One, and we're bringing it back. Here are the details August 18 to 25, we will be hosting a completely digital Wave One experience, the original Free From Sin series with the one and only Jonathan Leonardo. Every single night, at 6 pm Pacific, 9 pm Eastern, we will be hosting a live Free From Sin Wave One event. And it's all happening. You guessed it yes, for free. So book your calendars, tell your friends, because the Holy Spirit is on the move. The event will be invite only, which means if you want the link, you need to do this one step Text the words Wave One to 808-204-4372. That's W-A-V-E, the number one to 808-204-4372, in order to reserve your spot. If you have a friend that needs good Gospel, this event is for them. Who knows you? Inviting them to Wave One might be the starting point for a future DTL episode. So spread the word and I'll see you there.

Speaker 2: 1:28:25

The great. The thing that changed everything is, my dating wasn't going good. Right, I dated a couple people wasn't going that great, but I was dating better than I used to. I was really trying to find a good person, like a really solid, value-based person. But then I went to Serena and Jonathan's wedding because they had their wedding a year after there. It was actual marriage. And I went to her wedding and I just was blown away. Everything that I wanted was right in my face. I was like this is what I want. I want a man that loves me like this. I want a marriage like this. It was just so beautiful and, yeah, it was a wonderful wedding and I was around Christian and Angie and Nicholas and other people that were in the community that I knew from going on the Bible studies, and it was just so good and their vows were beautiful, just everything was beautiful. The praise was beautiful. It was just like, after everything I'd been through the last year, I was like this is it, this is good, this feels good, this is good, this is pure, this is holy. I want this in my life. This is what I remember. This was exactly what I remember feeling before, when I was in freedom, and I'm like this is too good, I need to reevaluate my life. The last year had nothing good. I literally got home from that wedding Trying to remember what I wrote down. Okay, yeah, I got home from the wedding and I was like, okay, something's got changed, something's got to give here, because this is what I want. I want a marriage like this. And I started just choosing to believe. Maybe it's possible. Again, right, maybe it's possible. And I wrote down because it was obviously still questioning things. So I was like is believing in something, even if it's not right, better than believing in nothing? And I kept putting this question in my mind. I wrote down a prone cons list to believe in the gospel.

Speaker 1: 1:30:37

What do you have on there? Is it good stuff?

Speaker 2: 1:30:39

It's good. It says believe in the gospel pros. Are there any long-term cons? And I said I was happier when I was choosing to believe. I had more hope, better community excitement. Peace wasn't worrying, but that's what I wrote down.

Speaker 1: 1:30:57

Any cons.

Speaker 2: 1:30:59

No, I didn't write any down.

Speaker 1: 1:31:04

Your pros and cons. Listeners are like it's just good, Literally.

Speaker 2: 1:31:10

And then I just prayed and told God I had what I experienced at the wedding and that I wanted that. And then it says in my notes start listening to the Death's Life podcast again, Turn off the noise the show was in the distractions and start listening to those things. Then I wrote at the end I said, even when I'm not committed to the plan, God is committed to me. I don't know where that came from, but yeah, wrote the pros out. I was like happy.

Speaker 1: 1:31:40

That's so beautiful.

Speaker 2: 1:31:43

No cons.

Speaker 1: 1:31:43

I didn't get to the cons, no that line that you just wrote even when I'm not committed to the plan, god is committed to me.

Speaker 2: 1:31:50

Yeah, that's how I felt at that point, because I was not committed to the plan, I was just so far, but I felt like God was still pursuing me or calling me back in through these people, through this marriage, especially because I had felt so unworthy. That's where the lie started, at the beginning of seeing them get dating and then seeing their beautiful marriage, and it was just like full circle. Nope, this is for me. If it can happen to her, it can happen to me. And yeah, all the gospel pros. And then, crazy thing is the day after that, two days later at the wedding, nicholas told me he was like I was like where's Eddie and Jaila? And Nicholas was like they moved to Hawaii. I was like what? I thought they were going to be here and I was like everyone's moving to Hawaii, he's maybe you. And I was like no, I'm not going to Hawaii. And two days later I text Eddie because Eddie had reached out to me and I had ignored him. I texted him and I was like, hey, I heard you're moving to Hawaii, or you moved to Hawaii. I hope you're doing well. And he literally was like, yeah, when are you coming to visit? Granted, I had not talked to Eddie for a long time and I ignored him and I was like, why are you seriously asking when I'm going to come to visit? And I asked him why. And he's because we love you and we would love to hang out with you and show you all the cool things about Hawaii. Which was crazy to me because I was like I've been out of this community for a while, like a year now and more than a year right, like a year and a couple months. Why would they want me to visit? And but I went with it. I was like, are you serious? And he's yeah, I looked up flights that night, found some hey, what about this date? And he's okay, cool, that works. Checked with Jaila. And then I talked to my bosses and I was like, hey, can we make this work? I have this opportunity to go to Hawaii. And then they did. They made it happen for me. It was great. I literally flew to Hawaii two or three weeks later after Serena's wedding because I was desperate. At that point. I was like I have to get community back in my life. Community is just so important for me. It's just a big part of my experience I felt was having Christian people in my life that are encouraging, holding me accountable, being there for me and vice versa, like I wanted to be able to have that in my life. So, I fly to Hawaii. I have a great time hanging out with Jaila pretty much the whole time. Eddie was there too, but Jaila doesn't work right now, so she's homeschooling the kids and we had a great, awesome time and I asked her a few questions about hearing the Holy Spirit and it was just great. But when Eddie picked me up at the airport, he was like so where have you been? I was like I don't know A lot of places, but I want to choose to believe this because there's. This is the best thing out there and it has created the most peace in my life and I want peace. I remember how I felt when I had it. I want it back. So I'm just going to go believe this, even if maybe I don't have all the answers. I'm just going to believe it, which is exactly what I was saying. That was BS. A few months earlier, I was like I need all the answers. If I don't have all the answers, I can't believe this. So I just switched it up and I was like I don't even need the answers. I'm just going to believe this because my life has better fruit when I believe this and I'm happier, healthier, that this is it. This is the thing I need to believe. So he was like, okay, glad you're back, he's working for you, and that was literally like all week it was maybe a 10 minute conversation. I cried and I was like, I don't know, put him back, I want this. And then we had a great time.

Speaker 1: 1:35:37

Was there any lie that you couldn't come back, like the time you were away, like that you had spent so much? Was there anything like I can't go back because that's embarrassing or I can't go? Was there anything like that pressing on you? No?

Speaker 2: 1:35:54

The lie was fear that I was going to have to, yeah, burn my way back in. And I think when I reached out to Eddie, in his first sentence that he said was like hi, so glad to hear from you, you made my day. When are you coming to visit? There was. That was the first response back to me after I said hi, how are you? You're in Hawaii. I think that was big for me because I'm like, oh my gosh, he does not care. It does not care that I was gone, like piecing out, doing whatever he's like, really wants me to visit him and JLo are inviting me here. And so I think that there was, yes, fear there of I'm going to have to explain myself, I'm going to have to prove to people that or explain why I was gone. But I also knew that this was a very loving community and they had loved me before and I didn't think the love would stop. It was just fear of having to explain it, but I didn't really have to. He's just like where you been and he's okay, glad you're back.

Speaker 1: 1:36:54

And I'm like, okay You're like I'm afraid that I'll have to explain it. So let me go on the death to live podcast and explain the whole thing for.

Speaker 2: 1:37:04

I know, yeah, I know. That's why, when you hit me up the other day and you're like are you ready?

Speaker 1: 1:37:10

It was like oh no, I didn't know if you knew what I was talking about, but then I found out quickly that you did when you were like what?

Speaker 2: 1:37:17

else would you be saying that? For I was like, oh no, in a couple of days, like earlier, I had just hung out with Serena, jonathan and I was like, if I ever go on the podcast, like I've been so rogue and now I'm so redeemed, like rogue to redemption is so good and we were all vibing and watching the chosen and hanging out at the beach. It was a great time. But so I guess I spoke that into existence a little bit, but it's my fault, but yeah. So after Hawaii I just started getting back into it, getting on the Bible studies again, getting into secret place, filling my mind with good stuff, yeah, and just getting back into the swing of things, spending time with God, journaling my prayers and surrendering things like surrendering. Like Jaila said something to me in Hawaii we prayed and asked for a lie. One of my lies that I was still believing was like striving, like I was always striving to try to independently accomplish things and do it on my own. And just the last six months I've just been like letting it go, like I'm going to do things. I'm going to do things that bring me joy and I'm not going to worry about it anymore, I'm going to watercolor paint, I'm going to go to the beach, I'm going to not worry about a career as much, you know. Just be more present and get my relationship with God down and find my joy in the secret place, find my joy in community, find my be fulfilled by God and not fulfilled by personal accomplishments or a plan, and just operate in God's will, which is to have Christ living in my heart and being fruitful and abiding in me. You know, abiding in the place that I already am, right, like I'm already there, so that's why I can abide and stay there, renew my mind so that's what I've been doing and finally surrendered, like, all my dating, like I will not be dating. Yeah, I'm just not going to do it anymore. I'm not going to worry about finding a husband. I've surrendered it. I don't want to do any of it on my own, literally don't want to do a thing Like I'm just going to let it be. You know, not going to go on dating apps. I'm not doing that. Not going to go on dates, not going to even entertain anybody who's not in the same faith as me. People have tried setting me up with different guys and I'm like are they a Christian. Are they strong to the relationship with God? And they're like no, but that's not. Maybe you guys can grow in that. No, I see that there's things that God, the Bible, and God says you maybe don't do that because it's just not good for me. Right, it's not good, it's not going to create good in my life, and I've literally done all the things and it created destruction and chaos and pain. So now I'm like oh, there's a reason why God says to not be sexually immoral is because it was created for one beautiful purpose and it has power and it'll hurt you if you misuse this gift. Not because God is like trying to be a rolling God. No, I don't want you to have this until you do it my way. No, he created these, he created us, he created gifts for us and if we wait and use those gifts the way that he created them, that's the best for us and any other way is just not it. It's not going to bear good fruit in your life and I've found that out the hard way. I'm one of those people who do things the hard way a lot of the time and whatever comes back around and I get the lesson. But yeah, now I'm just like yeah, I'm so good, I'm not doing things my way.

Speaker 1: 1:41:11

You know what the greatest sinners make the greatest righteous people? They really do. They really do because those who are forgiven much, love much and Emily from your story. You've walked on the wild side and you've seen all the world has to offer, and it does not deliver on its promises. It never has. And so because of that, you make the greatest righteous person, because how forgiven you are, how loved you are.

Speaker 2: 1:41:51

Yeah, and how powerful that is. You never are too far gone. Even if you stumble, question things, god is still committed to you, to me. Are you a son or a slave? You're a son. You're always a son. It is so good, it is really so good, and it's great to just be able to rest in that, instead of striving for my own for so long and coming up empty handed for so long, right Now I can just rest and be like it's all good. God, you got it. I don't have to worry about it anymore. I don't have to worry about personal Like when you're surrendered. It doesn't matter who gets the credit right. You don't need the credit anymore. You don't need even pride, even in this freedom. This time, right, I still realized I had pride and God, the Holy Spirit, helped me work through that. Let that pride go, okay. No, you don't need to make decisions to try to catch up to other people. You're good. Just rest, stop striving, chill and enjoy your life and enjoy what you can do in the present moment. And if you don't need a husband to be happy, you don't need performance to be happy. You'll literally get to be happy every moment of your life because you have Jesus in your heart.

Speaker 1: 1:43:13

I love it. You're a testimony to me, you're a blessing to all of us, and thank you so much for sharing your story.

Speaker 2: 1:43:25

Yeah, thanks for asking me.

Death to Life podcast

#124 Rogue To Redemption: Emilyanne's Struggle for Perfection

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