Death to Life podcast
#170 From Despair to Divine Love: Christian's Transformation and Faith
What if the lowest point in your life reignited your faith? Join us in "Death to Life" as we explore powerful stories of transformation and strength found in divine love. Christian shares his journey from a strict Seventh-day Adventist upbringing in Perth Amboy, NJ, to finding purpose through faith. Despite challenges, including significant eye surgery, his vibrant community and cultural heritage helped him overcome a dark period in December 2022. Another story follows a young individual who, after losing a friend, struggled with faith, grief, and rebellion. With the help of a supportive youth leader, they realized true fulfillment lies beyond partying and substance use, highlighting the importance of mentorship.
Finally, we delve into the transformative power of God's unconditional love. Personal accounts reveal how breaking free from legalism and shame leads to true freedom and identity in divine acceptance. From overcoming the pressures of canvassing summers to battling personal hypocrisies, these stories emphasize that embracing God's promises leads to peace and a profound sense of identity. Tune in to witness how these individuals moved from despair to a life rooted in divine love, showcasing the universal impact of God's love.
0:00 - From Death to Life
13:11 - A Journey of Faith and Doubt
24:24 - Struggles With Legalism and Lust
32:38 - Breaking Free From Condemnation and Shame
45:38 - Discovering Freedom Through Love and Grace
55:07 - Embracing God's Unconditional Love
1:03:48 - Living in God's Unconditional Love
💰 DONATE & SUPPORT our Ministry: lovereality.org/give
👍 LIKE us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alovereality
📷 FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/riyoung31/
📚 LEARN more at our site: lovereality.org
Looking for discipleship and fellowship? Join a Circle at lovereality.org/circles
What if the lowest point in your life reignited your faith? Join us in "Death to Life" as we explore powerful stories of transformation and strength found in divine love. Christian shares his journey from a strict Seventh-day Adventist upbringing in Perth Amboy, NJ, to finding purpose through faith. Despite challenges, including significant eye surgery, his vibrant community and cultural heritage helped him overcome a dark period in December 2022. Another story follows a young individual who, after losing a friend, struggled with faith, grief, and rebellion. With the help of a supportive youth leader, they realized true fulfillment lies beyond partying and substance use, highlighting the importance of mentorship.
Finally, we delve into the transformative power of God's unconditional love. Personal accounts reveal how breaking free from legalism and shame leads to true freedom and identity in divine acceptance. From overcoming the pressures of canvassing summers to battling personal hypocrisies, these stories emphasize that embracing God's promises leads to peace and a profound sense of identity. Tune in to witness how these individuals moved from despair to a life rooted in divine love, showcasing the universal impact of God's love.
0:00 - From Death to Life
13:11 - A Journey of Faith and Doubt
24:24 - Struggles With Legalism and Lust
32:38 - Breaking Free From Condemnation and Shame
45:38 - Discovering Freedom Through Love and Grace
55:07 - Embracing God's Unconditional Love
1:03:48 - Living in God's Unconditional Love
💰 DONATE & SUPPORT our Ministry: lovereality.org/give
👍 LIKE us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alovereality
📷 FOLLOW us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/riyoung31/
📚 LEARN more at our site: lovereality.org
Looking for discipleship and fellowship? Join a Circle at lovereality.org/circles
The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is Death to Life.
Speaker 2:There was a point that I was thinking of ending my life towards the end of that year, actually in December 2022. I kept talking to Joel. I actually started talking to Chris Whitmore as well, and I was finally able to realize that, because of Jesus, I don't have to be controlled by the lies of the enemy or by what people may say about me, because at this point, I was at my lowest point in my life, because everybody knows what I did. People are unfriending me on social media, all this stuff, and it was rough, bro, but I'm thankful because God was able to show me that he's there and he always has been there.
Speaker 1:Yo, welcome to the Death to Life podcast. My name is Richard Young and today this episode is with my brother, christian, and Christian man has got a wild story. Sometimes there's stories from deep legalism or stories from deep, you know, wild and out. This is a combination of both of those things. It might not be suitable for young ears because Christians lived a real life, but it is going to be a blessing to you. It is so powerful to hear Christian's heart, to hear how he's been loved. I think you're going to love it. So buckle up, strap in love. Y'all, appreciate y'all. Here is Christian. I guess we're starting off with like what you believed and why you believed it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I grew up going to the Seventh-day Adventist church. At the age of six years old my mom brought me, exactly in 1998, right after I had a very serious eye surgery I remember like it was yesterday because I wasn't allowed to watch TV for like a week or two Then, right after that, straight to church. I'm like, oh snap, what was the eye surgery? Eye surgery was because my eyes, like, were very crossed and it was to the point that it could affect my vision long-term during that time. So the doctor decided to do eye surgery. So that's what we did, yeah.
Speaker 1:Are there pictures of you that you have crossed eyes and everything?
Speaker 2:Yeah, when I was younger you could see it Like when I was like four or five, like I still have a little lazy eye, but it was a lot worse, like it was like all the time it would never straighten out, like it was always like crossed. It was really bad when I was younger.
Speaker 1:Okay, and so you're, you're going to church. Age six, what was that like?
Speaker 2:At first I thought it was a little corny because I couldn't watch pokemon no more. In the mornings I couldn't do certain things. Like my dad used to take me to the bodega my mom, I don't know where it's like no bodega. You're not buying on saturdays. Like no cartoons either. Like you're not watching pokemon, not just on saturdays, but you're not watching pokemon at all. By catching with them cards, I'm burning them all what a hater.
Speaker 1:Just kidding mom, uh, mom, yo, that's crazy.
Speaker 2:I know that was the vibe man when I got it when did you grow up In Perth, amboy? It's a very small town in New Jersey. It's like 15 minutes from Staten Island, new York. A lot of Hispanics bro, it's like 90% Hispanic.
Speaker 1:So are you Puerto Rican? Are you Mexican? What's your?
Speaker 2:ethnicity. So my mom she came from Nicaragua and my dad came from Dominican Republic and I was born in the States. So I'm American, I was born out here, but my parents are Central American and Caribbean.
Speaker 1:That's what's up. So did you only speak Spanish to your parents?
Speaker 2:Honestly with my mom. I always spoke to an English with my dad because he decided for some reason not to learn English like that Uh with him. I was talking to him in Spanish all the time. I bet he learned a little though, right? Oh, he understands it. Yeah, like if his uh like coworkers or like the people he's doing contracts for, like speak to him, he understands it, but he just doesn't talk, doesn't talk it to any of his family, just like work related.
Speaker 1:That's interesting. So you, you, so you're a. Do you consider yourself a new yorker?
Speaker 2:you are new like new jersey, through and through now definitely new jersey, because the thing is, uh, new york as close as I am to new york is like a whole different world out there man. But like we have different habits and stuff, like there's a whole rivalry sometimes of new yorkers and jersey people like even with the pizza. So I imagine even with the pizza so you're going to?
Speaker 1:what kind of church you're going to? You're going to a spanish church, english church at this.
Speaker 2:Uh, when I was younger yeah, oh, spanish church. I was at that church almost my whole life and so yeah, what so?
Speaker 1:no Pokemon, no cards. What else do you remember from growing up? Going to this church?
Speaker 2:One of the few things I admired about the church is that we had good potlucks. Man, we always had the best food in the area, praise God. I'm not going to lie, brother, like I'm not trying to gas my church, but I've been to different churches where potlucks I'm, you know, I'm thankful for people you know cooking, but I'm just keeping it real, bro, we had the best food in the area.
Speaker 1:I'm sure I'm sure you did. Did they have like a whole uh like plan? Did the?
Speaker 2:did the people like plan it out, like you brought the Puerto Ricans in the kitchen, just threw down my brother. That's all I got to tell you. They don't want that time. My mom, bro, they, uh, those Puerto Rican ladies. God bless their hearts, man. They were great cooks, bro.
Speaker 2:So what was the Puerto Rican delicacy at your uh potluck it was like, which is kind of like rice with like a green peas or not green peas, but like the green beans, and uh, they do a thing with that. They used to do like lettuce, uh, some bomb vegan like season, like it looked like chicken, but it wasn wasn't. But it tastes like it, so I'll take it, man, I'll take it. And I was back in 98, bro, so like that's, when veggie meat was not that good.
Speaker 1:I don't know how they pulled it off, but man, I think veggie meat was better when we were growing up dude, or like the franks maybe. Yeah, like morningstar farms. They changed their recipe and now it's whack. We used to eat grillers all day, oh yeah, griller's always had, yeah. I haven't bought a griller in forever because they changed the recipe and it's whack now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's not the same. No more. They try to compete with impossible. I think that's what it is.
Speaker 1:Hey, if anyone's listening to this and they and they know what I'm saying, like message me on Instagram and say uh, hashtag, why do grillers hashtag? Why are grillers whack? Now, that's, that's what. If you're listening to this and you resonate with why grillers have taken a dive, Okay, so you're in that church. You're growing up, Keep going.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so eventually, though, I did start to get involved. Um, when I was about eight or nine years old, I started to get a love to studying God's word, so I felt like it was a unique book. When I was younger, I'm like, okay, it's cool. Stories Like there's a Daniel in the lion's den, there's also David and Goliath, and I saw the story also of Jesus Christ dying on the cross, which I'm like that guy is awesome. When I was a kid, I'm like I want to be just like him and I would start memorizing the Bible verses, like in the primary sabbath school lesson, like the 13 verses. The motive wasn't necessarily the best, it was a competition amongst my other classmates, because whoever memorized all 13 verses and set it up front would get a special prize from their sabbath school teacher and free food, like to go take it out somewhere.
Speaker 1:So so there's this competition in this, in path Pathfinders. I don't know if you've, if your church is involved in it, it's called the Pathfinder something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we used to call Bible Bowl, but it's like PBE, Pathfinder Bible experience and, uh, next year is going to be on Romans and first and second Corinthians and a friend of mine, uh, who loves the gospel their kids are involved in this and uh, uh, and she was like oh, I can help you, I can help your Pathfinder team. And they're like no, mom, we don't want to learn about it, we just want to memorize it. And I'm just like whoa, because they're kids and that's how they think they're just trying to get that number one.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I thought that I mean that's hilarious and you can read that book and have it memorized and miss the whole thing if you're not coming from the right spot. You know what I'm saying and that's what the spot you were coming from. You're trying to beat all these primary kids.
Speaker 2:Trying to beat all the primary kids, trying to be like getting the spotlight, like looking for affirmation in the wrong places, of course, because only God could give us that For sure. Yeah, brother, I was like and I did it. I memorized all 13 verses. I did it more than once, and one time my mom was my teacher, so I was even going after even more. I'm like, nah, bro, like my mom was teaching this class, I am not about to lose, like this ain't happening. So that was like my motives when I was younger. I was like competition even more. I'm like nah, I'm not going to make my mom look like a loser, I'm like I'm winning this competition. Let's go yeah.
Speaker 1:So that's the kind of culture you're growing up in?
Speaker 2:Yeah, A little competitive, yeah, very competitive. That's the culture I grew up with in my church. It was always a competition, not just with me, but like it was just like, yeah, messy, who was god at this time? God at this time was just really like the person that could decide my fate of going to heaven or to hell, pretty much. And my mom had me going, so I, my dad, even though he didn't never went to church like that. He's like, well, you're going to church. I'm like I don't want to, but you don't go. He's like that's not your problem. Like I'm working, you're gonna go to church and if you don't, no video games. I'm taking away your smash bros, your mario kart, your n60, uh, your n64. Your cousin's not coming over, no, mcdonald's. I'm like, all right, I understand, I'm going. I was not trying to get punished, bro. Take away my n64. And then, like my privileges of hanging out my cousins, I'm like, nah, I'll go for three hours, I'll suck, suck it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah For Mario Kart man.
Speaker 2:For. Mario Kart bro, for the love of the game.
Speaker 1:For Princess, princess Peach, princess Peach. So keep so. God was the one who was in charge of getting you in or out. And and what would? What would decide how, if he was happy with you or not?
Speaker 2:So for me, I had thought pretty much that for God to be happy with me was for me to memorize these Bible verses, to come in my suit and my tie to help out at the church. At this young age already I was thinking like that and that's pretty much like the vision I had of God, which is not the healthiest. Hmm.
Speaker 1:All right, well, keep going. So you're growing up, you're in that church. What happened in your life?
Speaker 2:Yeah, eventually I got a little older, I started to hate church because there were some bullies in the church and during that time I was not social like that, I was like the socially awkward kid. So I wasn't necessarily like the cool guy, I was like more of like the weird kid who would get shy around girls and stuff like that. So they were picking on me frequently and it was like I hated going. I hated going more than I would go to school and I went to a public school right in front of the church and sometimes I would get bullied more in church than actual school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's sad bro. Yeah, I feel like I'm similar to that no-transcript.
Speaker 2:I'll tell my mom she'd be like, oh you know, like just try to avoid them and stuff like that. But it was not helping. They still kept doing their stuff. Man, they tied me to a pole one time. Bro, haters, dude, bro, who it was? The older kids too sometimes like I love actually that person, that brother who did that. I got nothing but love for him. Now me and him are actually mad cool. But that was like when I was younger. He went on some like awesome stuff bro, but he knows all of them. I'm not gonna say his name today, but he knows who he is. We cool now we ain't holding down, get some okay, so you, you didn't want to go anymore no like.
Speaker 2:Once I hit the age of 12 to about 17 and a half, technically 18 years old, I wanted nothing to do with church and it got worse.
Speaker 2:I kept would you still go, or would you? Oh, I had to. I didn't have a choice, bro. Like if I didn't go, it was punishments on the spot. Like I would like try to rebel. I would try to. I started acting out because I was like a sweet boy. When I was younger. My mom was like what, once you turn 12 years old, like you became like this demon child, like what happened to you? Like I still love you, but you're just completely out of character. Because I didn't want to be at church. I wanted nothing to do with church or religion. Like I was just like in my, in my own world. Like I was like I'd rather just go play video games, mind my business, play sports, watch sports. I get treated nicer anyway outside of church. So why am I going to church?
Speaker 1:that was my perspective so that's going 12 to 18. Who was god at this time like?
Speaker 2:oh I I kept changing. So like I had respect for god and like, to a certain extent at least, like worldly wise, like I'm like, okay, he's the. You know he, he's real, he exists. I had that mindset till about 15 years old I I did start to gain more character, so the people who used to pick on me stopped picking on me and I started to gain respect, um, from amongst, like some of the youth at the church. So one of the guys was my friend almost my whole life, like he. Actually, despite the ups and downs, we were boys.
Speaker 2:He ends up dying car accident. I was, uh, I was a 15. He died literally approximately five days before my birthday oh mercy. So that hit me really hard and the reason why is because this is when I started to doubt in God's existence was because I'm like, he has a 4.0 GPA, a junior in high school, he's about to be a doctor and he's a very loving person. He likes everybody the same way, even socially awkward kids like me. When I was younger, he always like know how to treat us. He was a great person. Like me when I was younger, he always like know how to treat us. He was a great person. The other person driving his vehicle was a person who was doing drugs and up to no good and he survived, but my boy died. I had a. I had a huge like collision course. I'm like, wait, I thought God has the back of those who are doing his work.
Speaker 2:Like drug dealer or like person that's using drugs, can't say he's doing drug like selling at this time, because I didn't know. But I know he was definitely. You know he was doing drugs and stuff like that and I'm like, how does he survive? But the other one who's like involved in church, youth leader, 4.0, student community, like figure he dies, other guy lives, and from that point on I had like a little like agnostic or atheist point of view for like about two and a half years wow, that's super sad.
Speaker 1:So you're you're kind of giving up on all that. What happened next?
Speaker 2:yeah. So eventually I came to uh to realize you know that the party life it wasn't for me. I was out part smoking, doing all these things for like-.
Speaker 1:Like 16 to 18 or six-, like 16 to 18,.
Speaker 2:yeah, almost stopped at 19 years old approximately. I got checked the dates again but technically in 2011, I was 19 years old, so like 19,. I stopped Rachel. So from 16 to 19, three years bugging out.
Speaker 1:Why did you find that it wasn't for you?
Speaker 2:Because I was empty, emptier and emptier every single time, like I just was not feeling like and on top of that I had told myself I was like, cause there's alcoholics in my family, I was like I would never come to become, to become that. But I was getting closer and closer to becoming an everyday drinker and I'm like I don't see the point of this. I feel good for like half hour, two or three hours after that. So hangover next day sucks. Didn't solve my problems, didn't solve my insecurities, nothing. It just left me emptier than usual.
Speaker 1:Did your parents know that you were struggling with this stuff?
Speaker 2:My mom has suspicions, but I used to hide it very well, so I would be like I'm at my friend's house playing video games or at the mall or stuff like that. I would always sugarcoat where I was going and back then you didn't have to share my location options like sidekicks and stuff and blackberries, so it wasn't the same as today. So I used to lie bro like and that's crazy, because usually I'm not necessarily the best liar even when I was younger, like I would laugh out of nervousness, my mom would ask me, christian, where were you at? And I would start laughing.
Speaker 1:So, even though she didn't, know, ha ha ha ha, not doing drugs. Ha ha ha.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm not getting high, I'm not drinking, nothing like that. My mom, I tell on myself just based on my facial expressions. Everybody tells me, Christian, you cannot hide your facial expression. When you're mad, you're mad. You can try to say all the nice things you want, but your face says it all. I've always been like that. So my mom would eventually be like you are not at Carlos' house that night, you were somewhere else. Why? Because I passed by and you were not there. I'm like oh my, she caught me eventually, but yeah.
Speaker 1:So when you realized how empty it was, you were like there has to be something else there has to be something else.
Speaker 2:Something that helped me in that situation was that one of the youth leaders at the time, even though he knows I was a high school dropout I dropped out of high school, high school dropout not doing nothing for myself he actually popped up to look for me, but not with the motive of me going to church. He was just interested in Christian, the person. So that's where it started to click a little bit. Okay, I might give this a chance, you know. And yeah, I got back into church, I would say into a organized religion. Sorry, I try to try to be. I got back into organized religion like 2011, around September, after I threw a party, which I should tell this. I should say the story, because there's a crazy story.
Speaker 1:What happened? You're like this party was not that cool. I should go to church again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no. So like, look what happened? Right, I went to a youth retreat this. So Friday night. I was at AY, right after I was with my boy, and we got invited to go to a party. So I told them you know what, I'm probably not going to go, whatever. Went back home I changed my mind. I'm like no, you know what we're going, so we go to the party. And, of course, like I had a lie to my mom in this situation. So what I did was told her oh, I'm going to be washing something downstairs in the basement, Cause we had a laundry room downstairs at the, where my mom owns the house. I was washing clothes by, snuck out, went to a party till four in the morning Next day. I got picked up by the youth director at the time, my, my best friend's father, you know, the one who passed away. His father was the youth director at this time. And his father picks me up, takes me to a youth event and I swore to his father I don't think I'm going to party again.
Speaker 2:This, that and the third. This is Saturday afternoon, brother. Right after I finished sleeping through the whole morning program, I was gone. Bro, I didn't have energy for no, divine service, not like that.
Speaker 2:Sunday night comes I throw my own party. No, it's crazy. Right Broken promises, brother. It's like yikes, I throw a party. So this is where it gets crazy. I invite like it's my parents honeymoon. Bro. This is September 6th. I'll never forget honeymoon. People come over, people from my block, everything. They're all coming through like probably 25, 30 people. In a small backyard we're playing Dominican music, playing dominoes, shooting basketballs, got a basketball court. All that stuff bro out of nowhere. I'm a clown at heart. I just grew up like that playing practice on my boys.
Speaker 2:So one of my boys, I thought it would be funny to lock him in the basement. So, this friend, he had marijuana this night and also drank alcohol. Not a good mix, Not a good mix. We locked them inside the basement. Have you ever seen those dogs? You lock up in the cage, Rich, and you leave them inside the basement? Have you ever seen like those dogs? You lock up in the cage, Rich, Like, and you leave them in the cage for a while and they come out and go rah, rah, rah, rah. They start barking all over the place and go crazy. My boy comes out the basement and he bro he came on some like you'll be like whoa, this guy's never liked this. He came out like wow, Like he came and tossed over the dominoes table my and tossed over the dominoes table.
Speaker 2:My dad's a painter. So he grabs all my dad's paints that are outside the garage and in the garage, starts tossing all that that's a lot of money, by the way, All this paint, tossing it everywhere. He goes to the basement. He's filled in paint. His brother's going on the walls like pa pa pa paint on the walls in the basement. Goes into the laundry room, grabs my mom's expensive Macy's clothes. You know, for women that's a thing, man, they got her Macy clothes. He stains that. He stains my church clothes, stains my mom's church clothes in the basement. Bro, it was insane. He goes to the first floor Same thing, Ta-ta-ta-ta-ta. Oh no, he left right About from the 50 people that were at that party. Who do you think still be?
Speaker 1:helping me clean that mess. I'm going to guess about zero people helped.
Speaker 2:Zero, nobody. Bro, three in the morning I'm full of paint, my backyard is full of paint and I'm just chilling outside and I think I had called one of my friends to tell her like to vent a little bit. And I'm like, bro, like this is crazy, like no one still to help me clean, like everybody dipped. And at that moment it's like god spoke to me. He's like you see, when you're in your messes, no one's gonna be there to clean it for you.
Speaker 1:only I'm able to do that and come over now, because my mom's gonna kill me come over now, bro.
Speaker 2:My dad came back. He's dominican, not in the lord. I had to go to my boy's house for like two days, bro. He was tight like cause. I like we literally spent from what my boy did. I'm like I don't want to exaggerate, but it was like close to like six or eight hundred dollars worth of paint lost, and that was back in 2011. So that was like that was worth more than what it is now, but that's still money even today. I'm sure you know that's still a lot, but even more money now it's still money now, but even more back then.
Speaker 2:That's when people were making three, three hundred a week, four hundred a week, and bro, it was crazy. But yeah, ever since then, like I got involved with like like ministry stuff, but it still wasn't with god, so I wasn't organized religion, but not necessarily relationship with so that influenced you to get your life right and you thought organized religion would be the answer yes, and that's where I was, um, not right okay, so what?
Speaker 1:what kind of organized religion were you getting involved in?
Speaker 2:so my friend took me to a gyc 2011. And where was it? In houston, texas.
Speaker 1:So this is you're like I'm, you flew out, you're like you're, you're going all out my first plane ride and everything never did a plane ride before that.
Speaker 2:Actually, the most I had gone to was to massachusetts, like a four-hour drive, so I never left this area like that. When I was younger, I went on this retreat and I was hearing a lot of like end time messages and like stuff, like on fear. You know, in a way there was some you know grace involved. I'm not going to say not full, but like it wasn't like full grace you know what I'm saying Like it's not like the authentic thing, it's more like fear mongering or putting salvation on our hands type vibes. So that's where I started to get self-righteous. I'm like you know what. All right, I cut off all my friends from high school, like even the ones who didn't go to the party Cause, to be fair, some of my very close friends that didn't go to the party that night. It was mostly from my block.
Speaker 2:Um so I cut everybody off. I was like a hermit, bro. Like I was just like in my room watching conspiracies like Walter Veith, all this, like the world's going to end, the Luminati's and everything Like bro, like it was crazy there's Jesuits in a general conference, like stuff like that. Bro, go and eat Yo. That was my vibe for like Did you like it Like?
Speaker 1:what does that feed in somebody? Why?
Speaker 2:Like ego, like it was just feeding my ego.
Speaker 1:At this point Now I start to feel like Well, how does it feed your ego watching conspiracy?
Speaker 2:stuff, because it kind of takes me away from personal growth with the Lord and more on problems with the church, with the system, and it starts condemning other people instead of looking for Jesus to help us with our personal stuff. So it's easier for me to see what's wrong with others than to see the speck of my own eye. You know how the Bible talks about that, for taking the speck out of someone's eye.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so in lowering others down, you felt higher up.
Speaker 2:Yep, and from all the bullying I had gone through, I was just like it's about time, man. Self-consciously, I'm like it's my turn now. Now it's my turn.
Speaker 1:There's Jesuits in the general conference, now I'm the man, because I know that, because there's Jesuits in the general conference, now I'm the man, cause I know that, cause I'm not a.
Speaker 2:Jesuit Don't know that, sheeple don't know that. And I'm out here giving out great controversies and like, just like telling people he's coming soon, he's coming soon. Repent, repent, when I wasn't having that personal walk with God myself.
Speaker 1:Okay, so this 2011.
Speaker 2:Yup, and that carried for a while. I went to Texas. I studied to pastoral ministry for like a year and a half.
Speaker 1:You were like after this GYC, like you were all in then.
Speaker 2:I was all in, like I was all over the place, bro. Like I told you before that GYC, I haven't done more than a four hour drive my whole life Like to Boston, massachusetts, like to go visit family.
Speaker 1:And now, like Texas, I start bouncing all over the place Like and so you were convicted. You were convicted that God was what now?
Speaker 2:I was convicted now that God's like um, you know, like he's. He's our heavenly father, who I need to be obedient to, and I need to prove my point to him that I'm trying my hardest to be a righteous man. So when that judgment comes, like he would consider me for salvation where he would consider to like not leave me out of the, out of heaven.
Speaker 1:Interesting. So how long were you on this kick?
Speaker 2:Oof. I was from 2011 to probably like around 2022.
Speaker 1:Oh, mercy so um 2020.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was like about like just before I met met, like before I met you like through uh, I think it was joe or chris, stuff like that like I was on that train for a minute, brother, it's 11 years so yeah, describe that.
Speaker 1:How was it going for you with all that like?
Speaker 2:so there was times, honestly, where, like outwardly, it would seem like I had things together, like there was a point that I actually outwardly like even I fooled myself, thinking that I was like righteous, like righteous like in the world, like in the incorrect way, because, like I'm not doing the bad stuff when really righteousness comes from Jesus, not through my works. So during this time I thought I was righteous because of what I was doing. So I'm like OK, so I don't listen to non-secular music, I have a vegan diet, vegetarian diet. I might eat no chicken, no more, I'm not wearing J's, I'm wearing just very humble, cheap shoes.
Speaker 2:You can't wear J's if you're righteous. Oh, bro, back in 2014, I canvassed with you know which. By the way, I'm not trying to like this to group with my canvas with, but, like they say, they use terminology called worldly brands, so like if I was wearing like a yankee cap or stuff with nike or like anything like that, like they wasn't vibing with it like that's worldly brands.
Speaker 1:You shouldn't. Jays are worldly brands yeah, jays are worldly brands so I have to wear walmart shoes to be righteous bro, something like that, and I'm not lying like they.
Speaker 2:I fell into that and I was like I was just doing vans because like there's nothing on there, just like black vans, black vans. Or like walmart shoes, like the wannabe fairies, like they had at Walmart, like 15 bucks. I was rocking those for a couple of years. And it's because, like, yeah, like they put that worldly brand terminology in my head, bro, so like I couldn't even wear a sports gear, nothing and I believe that that made me righteous. I did that for like a year and a half, to be fair, and I went back to wearing my sports stuff.
Speaker 1:but what was the craziest thing that you thought was making you righteous? Now, as you look back, maybe was it that, was it the brand stuff? Or was it something else?
Speaker 2:I think, honestly, it had to do with my diet, the diet and the brand stuff. Yeah, because I was vegetarian, strict vegetarian, for a while. Like and like I would tell my mom, like, oh, you're drinking coffee gross. Like, why are you eating meat? Like, like you, you're drinking coffee Gross. Like, why are you eating meat? Like you know you're going to like, like they say in this book that you eat meat, you're not surviving the end times Like I was. I was bugging bro, so like I think that was like one of the weirdest things.
Speaker 1:What did she say to you when you would say that She'd be like shut up fool, let me have my coffee.
Speaker 2:She's like she would get really upset.
Speaker 1:She's like that's very judgmental what is a typical response to that? When she would tell me that yeah, like, what is the response from a legalistic mind?
Speaker 2:oh, I was like, oh I was like you're just a liberal, like you're a liberal dude, like I would say that, sometimes even directly to her, which I think is very disrespectful. I'm like oh, I say in spanish, like I used to just like be like you don't get it, like you need to get off of that, like now, like, if not, your awkward guy's not gonna be good. Like I used to say stuff like that, bro, because of her drinking coffee, or like eating like red meat, or stuff like that so where did you I don't know if this is coming up in the story where did you meet Joel at?
Speaker 2:I met Joe in 2016. I was a part of a Souls West Bible College. This is in the West Coast Arizona area and they had told me for me to you know, to be able to join their school officially, I had to canvas for the last two weeks of the summer. They sent me to Central California and I was out there canvassing with him and a couple other canvassers.
Speaker 1:So what was the plan for your life? Were you going to be a pastor, or what were you going to do?
Speaker 2:So at this point, I just wanted to serve. At this point I just wanted to feel worthy of God, worthy of being accepted by God, because I'm knocking on doors all day. I'm here doing this while everybody else is swimming in pools and having the time of their life. I'm out here knocking on doors, 150 degree weather, like it was pride, a lot of pride was there where, like, I was doing these things just like for acceptance from God and like, also like to feel holier than the rest of the youth at the, you know, like in my church or anywhere else, cause they're having fun and I'm not like that was like not the good motive to be doing ministry. Of course, hmm, all right.
Speaker 1:Well then, uh, as this keeps going, how was it going for you, honestly?
Speaker 2:like I thought I was good. But there was one thing that was tormenting me this whole time, and is the, the porns. You know how you say it the porns, the porns, the porns the lusts, the wwwshouldntbeherecom.
Speaker 2:I've heard of it yeah, yeah, so like that's the one thing that would like really destroy me, you know, like, like, like it would make me feel like drunk and it was like just like once a month, but that was enough for me to be down about it for weeks, for sure, once a month. At that point, like, and I was being prideful about it, hey, at least I just watch it once a month, for everybody else I know watches like every day. I'm watching it once a month. Like I can't be that bad, like that's like that was my mindset at the time and yeah but you felt pretty close to god.
Speaker 1:You felt like you were doing right.
Speaker 2:You're on that, that vegan tip yeah, because I was getting up at four in the morning reading my great controversy, then going to the gym to go run at five in the morning. I thought that was making me more like acceptable in God's eyes. Like I felt like, okay, I got up before all of the canvassers at some point four or five in the morning, I'm reading and I'm, like you know, doing exercise. So I'm, you know, I'm better than almost everyone else around me, like and it's like short term, of course, because I only did it for a month, but still like it was just yeah, so when you were done with canvassing and you were done with, like, what happened next for you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so with canvassing I officially didn't finish until 2019. I canvassed that summer too, so I would always canvass every summer. Sometimes it would be for like six weeks, other times 10 weeks, sometimes four weeks, it depended on the year. Were you good at selling those books? I started to get better with time. Yes, because I remember one time someone saying in a devotional talk that if you don't sell 10 books in a day, then you're with Satanan. Yeah, they said that straight up like you're with satan, like pretty much like, if you're not selling 10 books and you're not trusting in the lord. But it was kind of contradictory because I knew someone that was selling like 20 30 books a day and they had.
Speaker 2:They were not with, had stuff going on like yeah, which I'm not gonna'm not going to throw him under the bus, but like and I was like kind of confused by it Like that was like interesting, I'm like all right. So I yeah, I heard that one time. So that kind of like motivated me more to like read and pray more and like prove my point by selling 20 or 25 books per day.
Speaker 1:So what happens after the summers of canvassing?
Speaker 2:After the summers of canvassing, covid hits, and that's where things got. How old were you During COVID?
Speaker 1:Yeah, when COVID hit. How old are you?
Speaker 2:28. I'm 32 now, so during COVID I was like 28.
Speaker 1:What were you doing like full-time job?
Speaker 2:Uber, uber and Lyft. I was canvassing back in Jersey too, so I would buy books at times and canvass in Jersey, so it was Uber. Lyft and selling books. All right, that's what I was doing from 2000 to 2023 or 2022.
Speaker 1:Did you ever drive people to the?
Speaker 2:city or did you drive like All over the place? Take them to Washington DC, sometimes like once or twice I got four hour trips, other times like three hour trips to Connecticut, sometimes to the city all over I got to drive to a lot of places. Wow, it was paying the bills, but unfortunately the money I wasn't using it on good things, you know. So like there's that, but that's where my life started to spiral more out of control. I felt like my mask fell off during COVID.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so COVID starts, you're doing that.
Speaker 2:To describe that your mask falling off. My mask fell off because now I no longer had the religious organization, their programs, to be able to keep me from doing the bad stuff I've been wanting to do this whole time. So before I was so busy preaching I was preaching every weekend. Sometimes I'd preach three to four times a weekend and I was so busy swamp with youth ministry and preaching that I didn't have time to go to strip clubs. I didn't have. I was stressed out about something and I just randomly like snuck out on a friday night and went for like an hour to go like you know, like relieve myself, and really it didn't do anything for me I would think that in in a mindset like that, that you would double down even more.
Speaker 1:They're like I'm not trying hard enough. Is that what you tried, or were you just like? This isn't working at all?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I did double down more. Eventually, like I started to condemn myself even more and, yeah, for it worked for like about two and a half years maybe. Well, I'm not going to say work, cause really it blew in my face later Cause I didn't go again probably for like another two years. So I like that COVID comes and I had just broken up with a girl just before COVID, like probably three or four months before that, and I was like my quote, unquote, green light, well, I got no girlfriend, this, that and the third, and there's no more church programs. Like I wasn't as busy and I just like started to wallow bro, like it was crazy, like it was. Like it was crazy, like it was like it was crazy.
Speaker 1:What was the stuff you were preaching three or four times a week?
Speaker 2:At that time I was preaching a lot of condemnation, brother. A lot about like condemnation. Like you know, repent from your sins. Repent from your sins Like you need to. You need to do this, you need to do that. Like a bunch of do's, like and telling people to stop being lazy, go knock on doors, hand out literature. He's coming soon and I'll talk about, like, the hypocrisies in the church, while I myself I'm a hypocrite. That's crazy, but that's what I was doing back then A lot of condemnation and rebukes, and sometimes I'll sprinkle it with the love of Jesus. You feel me Like. You know how they be doing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Were people moved by what you were saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, unfortunately, there'll be some people that will like this stuff and they'll keep inviting me back, which, now that I think about it, I'm like mercy. How did I come get invited to get preached all these times Like a false gospel? That blows my mind.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's. I think it's very easy to understand when people are living a double-minded life. They want somebody to come and shame them out of that double-minded life. They believe that if they feel bad enough they can come out of the thing. Um, it will never work. It never has worked. It might be effective in the short term. You know what I'm saying. Like in the same way, I bet you felt I don't know how bad in relation to other things, but at the gyc, if you're leaving that club, I bet you felt bad enough to go for a while, but it doesn't last you know it doesn't last no, it doesn't last.
Speaker 1:It's not a life changer no, not. Long term is shame and condemnation is never a key ingredient for genuine change isn't it interesting that jesus came to bring life and that the son of man did not come into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world from it? Yes, and we, instead of preaching life, preach condemnation, and we're surprised that we end up with the same result, like if you're going to preach condemnation, you're going to get condemnation bro, and it added up like.
Speaker 2:It added up like all those sermons I preach. Sometimes, to be fair, I would preach like about love or, like you know, like testimonies and stuff like that, but for the most part it was like mostly fear-mongering, condemnation like behind it. So it wasn't real, like actual, like the love of jesus. You know, it's kind of like a like a different, like love which is not the love of jesus, so it doesn't change people so covid hits and you're just like your.
Speaker 1:Your girl's gone and uh, you're a grown man. You're just like all right, let me see what this is all about you. I'm gonna go all in. Or were you just like lying to yourself?
Speaker 2:I was lying to myself. Yeah, I was lying to myself. I was this is a one-time thing. I just I'm just doing this once. God understands, I'm doing it just once. And like that's how, like the devil, uh, he does what he does, you know, like yeah, I was just a one-time thing and it's it's more than once, like and in certain situations, in my situation, it definitely was more than once. So like that's like where I started to condemn myself even more and at this time, like I was not like doing exercise, not like taking care of my physical body either, and then I'm doing those bad things. It, my life was just completely out of control.
Speaker 1:So what happened, man? What came to a head?
Speaker 2:I think this is going back to September. We're in 2024 now, so September 2022, around there, right, or like in the summer. I got mixed up with the dates Chris Mendenhall presents to me Love Reality and he starts Did you grow up with Chris? I met Chris just before COVID because he used to go to my ex-girlfriend's church. So that's how me and him met. He's the dude, he's great. Chris met and I was like yo, brother, we're about to link in a week or two actually love that guy, so you met him and he's like yo check this out yeah, he's like check this out because he knows what I was going through.
Speaker 2:I had opened up to him about a lot of the stuff I did wrong and what I was struggling with with mental health and my addictions and things like that. He sent me he and like at first, when I watched it, bro, I was like nah, what did you watch?
Speaker 2:I watched, uh, jonathan Leonardo, uh, it was on YouTube and it was like the. It was like the one of the gospel in seven minutes. Yeah, gospel in seven minutes. And at first, cause I have a hard time like accepting this, cause I went to amazing facts Bible college. I went to souls West.
Speaker 2:I was like a I used to follow Walter wife and all, like you know all this stuff that comes with that and that's a culture shock, brother, cause, like you'd be like Whoa, whoa, like, and my first thing is like, what will people think of me once I come? Accept this, which is not the right thing to think, is like, am I pleasing God or man? You know like, and finally, bro, I watched it. Like I had to watch a lot, I'm not gonna lie, it took me a minute like I had to watch and watch and watch, and watch and watch, and I kept like studying every word and I'm like, okay, you go to the Bible and it's there and it's like a smack like to the face, like spiritually, cause I'm like dude, it's been there the whole time. How many times have I gone through the book of Romans and I never saw this stuff?
Speaker 2:I'm like mercy, I'm like mercy and like I finally started to realize that my worth had nothing to do with anything I will do or ever have done, that my worth comes from God. That he always has loved me, even when I was this teenager, second guessing his character. That he's always loved me even when I was up in them bars and those strip clubs, knowing that it was wrong. He's always loved me even when I was out here gossiping about people's lives and my life was not in order, condemning people, preaching this false gospel. That his love had always been the same for me, no matter what. When I finally came to accept that that his love has nothing to do with what I have done, it's like when it started to hit home for me. I'm like, oh my goodness, this is what the gospel is supposed to be like.
Speaker 1:So were you watching the whole sermons by then, or were you watching just?
Speaker 2:so I was watching the mini clips. At that time I did watch some of his sermons on YouTube and but yeah, I was watching, I started, I started to catch up like slowly, like I was starting to watch like certain things.
Speaker 1:So, and you remind me of the timeline. I don't know how you linked up with Joel, so and you remind me of the timeline.
Speaker 2:I don't know how you linked up with Joel.
Speaker 1:I don't know if this is at this time, yeah, so how?
Speaker 2:much you were into it. Yeah, so September 2022 with Joel.
Speaker 1:Didn't I preach at your church before? I didn't know you? I didn't know you at all. I met you when Joel put but Joel messages me one day and he's just like will you, uh, will you preach at this church in New Jersey online? Yeah, you remember this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so during that time I don't have the messages got a new phone, but yeah, I didn't know you yet.
Speaker 1:No, and so I think we link up and cause you what you were like the elder of the church, kind of running the show a little bit.
Speaker 2:I like, no like I was like helping the other okay, and so I go to your church, you remember?
Speaker 1:do you remember what happened during this service, bro?
Speaker 2:I remember it about it the other day with the one of the others of the church, actually, because I still talk to him sometimes okay.
Speaker 1:So from your perspective, from my perspective, I'm preaching this sermon and i'm'm just going over Romans 6 and that we're free from sin, and somebody interrupts me during the service, not from the church, but from another Zoom account, and it's like asking me questions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he got very defensive. I remember I was crazy.
Speaker 1:I don't remember what it was that I said or what even we discussed.
Speaker 2:I just know you were talking about, like our, um, like the righteousness of jesus, I believe. If I'm mistaken, it was about the righteousness of jesus. And also, oh, I was in tennessee during the time. I was a canvassing director for, uh, the adventist school right there in um, how am I forgetting the name right now, bro? It's crazy, I was in tennessee, I remember. Now, yeah, I didn't know you, bro, I I did not know you.
Speaker 1:You weren't at the church service.
Speaker 2:I was there on Zoom, but I'm not going to lie bro. During this time. I was not in Freedom. I was on my way to Nashville, I think, to go chill or whatever. This was Saturday. I was working at an event in school though Tennessee. And so you're okay. I didn't even know you either, bro. That's crazy. I didn't know you're from Tennessee either during that time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was, like I was in Nashville and so I'm preaching the sermon, bro, that's crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I was in Monterey.
Speaker 1:And I didn't know you, but you were kind of helping putting that stuff together a little bit. Yeah um, I remember now after that, like how to keep going like you're grabbing onto it a little bit, but you're not super clear on it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like it was, I was far from grabbing onto it, bro, during that time, during your first time, now that I remember. Yeah, that was far from like before when we like, because, like I know, we spoke way after that. So when I spoke to you personally, that's when it was different during that time, nah, bro, I was not getting nothing like that. To be honest, I wasn't. I was on my way to nashville, bro, like that's when it was different During that time. Nah, bro, I was not getting anything like that. To be honest, I wasn't. I was on my way to Nashville, bro, like that's crazy, on a Saturday, like you know, like I had my camera off and like you was talking, but I did think, wait, I invited you twice, though, didn't I? Or was it once? I don't think. So, dude, we just once. Yeah, the same time the guy spazzed, right, yeah, okay, never mind. So, yeah, now I was not walking in freedom.
Speaker 1:Yeah, bro, no so joel starts putting you on to this stuff too, and you start talking to joel about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, joe started telling me, yeah, joe started putting me on it and like it took me a while to process because, um, I was so acquainted, especially like during that time, like I was just like so lost in the sauce bro, I was just like there to be there, but like I wasn't really, um, I was just caught up on doing dumb stuff, bro. Like that's the time, like like that's like where I was just like doing me and like, oh God forgives me, but not really believing it obviously, and I kept like doing dumb stuff.
Speaker 1:All right, well, keep going, keep telling the story.
Speaker 2:Oh bro. Yeah, you see, this is where the timelines are starting to make sense.
Speaker 1:Now I'm like wait, this is different I I feel like I have a pretty good memory about this. You and I and joel joel wanted to do this, this podcast about uh freedom from addiction yes, and you were all about it and you were like grabbing onto freedom and you were asking questions, you're gonna be the co-host and then you end up, uh, pregnant oh, no, no, no, no, she was already pregnant.
Speaker 2:She was already pregnant okay, well, you tell the story, bro, oh yeah, yeah, I just remember now, bro, this is the part of the story I get to. Yeah, so now, so we're doing the, we're doing this podcast with joel, and this was like probably three or four months into the pregnancy already. We're now, like at this point, like I'm convinced, like God does, he does love me, and like it has nothing to do with like anything I will ever do. And at this point I'm realizing like that the only way you know that I'll be able to walk in freedom is through his promises. It's not through my discipline, it's through his freedom.
Speaker 2:Not this in discipline, like the spiritual disciplines, it was like you know, in freedom, but if it's not in freedom, then it's not good. And like you know, before this whole, before that whole situation, like discipline for me was always like what I could do instead of trusting God's promises. So at this situation I came to realize that it only comes from God, like the victory over sin, like if it's not from God, we're not going to have it. It doesn't matter how hard we try, we're not going to have it. It's a gift.
Speaker 1:When you found out that you guys were pregnant was this when you were starting to learn about freedom. I was trying to learn about it, yes. So when you found out you were pregnant, like were like all these lies coming in? Like yeah, I shouldn't have been doing that. Oh, and now look at what's like describe that oh, bro, it was a disaster.
Speaker 2:Uh, from that time, from september to december, like when we start, when I started that podcast, like with joel, I had like a situation where, like, honestly, I was like all like you know, like my mind was caught up on truth, but eventually, sadly, I started falling for some lies and, bro, I was suicidal that year.
Speaker 2:There was a point that I was thinking of ending my life towards the end of that year, actually in december 2022, and I remember it was yesterday Like I kept talking to Joel and eventually started talking to Chris Whitmore as well, and like I was finally able to realize that, because of Jesus, I don't have to be controlled by my lies. I don't have to be controlled by the lies of the enemy or by what people may say about me, because at this point, I was like at my lowest point in my life, because I was, I came to speak at camp meetings for youth at some point and like everybody knows what I did and like I'm getting these looks from people at times when I go to different churches, like people are unfriending me on social media, all this stuff, and it's just like it was rough, bro, but I'm thankful because God was able to show me that he's there, and he always has been there. So I was able to overcome that situation by the grace of God. At this moment, I no longer live in depression.
Speaker 1:Were you hearing anything condemning from Joel or Chris, or when you were learning about this, even though you were feeling this way?
Speaker 2:No, no condemnation ever from Joel or Chris. Nope, what were they preaching to you? Pure love, brother, you're loved. You're loved Like you're a son of God, you're a son of the most high. And at first I was weirded out by that. I'm like, how am I the son of the most high? I just knocked up a girl. Like how am I the son of the most high? Like if I was like this false evangelist, this false Bible worker, this false canvasser, like this false youth leader, like how am I a son? Y'all telling me I'm son. I came to accept that I am a son of God and I remember watching one of John DeLeonardo's sermons that I believe Joel sent me or someone sent me. I'm not sure who did, to be honest, because it's about three or four people that I know who talked to me about love reality. But someone sent me the sermon and it had to do with know like loves. Everybody, and specifically the prodigal son story, right talks about how the prodigal son was always son.
Speaker 2:I used to preach that story like giving a false illustration about like oh, that's about like you leaving your bad stuff behind and you coming back to god, when that was never the focal point of the story. That's about the focal point of the story was the love that the father had for the son, despite of him hooking up with people, wasting all his riches, all the stuff that the father always loved the son. He was always son, even when he was broke, even when he was hooking up with them girls he was always son. And then he comes back to the house and he receives him with love, despite of all the bad stuff he did, and he hugs him, puts a ring on him and celebrates him, despite of the other brother being salty. He's like I never left and you're not celebrating me like that, like you know, like the father loved his son.
Speaker 2:And at that moment it hit me like heavy, like God's, like dude, like I love you, like I love you and despite of me doing all this nasty stuff I was doing and all this bad stuff I was doing, god views me the same way always, even though I didn't like, and it kind of like struck a chord because you know, growing up, I would hear the contrary the moment you sin, you're a son of the devil. The moment you sin, you're a son of the devil. The moment you sin, you're a son of the devil. And it's just like a huge conflict there at first. But I eventually came to accept that I am his son and it has nothing to do with what I have done, but it's because of our Savior, jesus Christ. Wow.
Speaker 2:So you believe all this stuff? How did it change the way you looked at your girl and the pregnancy? So she did not want to be with me, and with good reason, because I was being a jerk, Like you know. I was just like not being healthy, I was being toxic and stuff like that and clingy. So Joel told me this he's like Chris, you're in freedom, right, brother? Yeah, Jesus loves you, right? Yeah, Give that sister some space, Let her breathe. Let her breathe. Don't be insecure, Like if it's God's will. He got you, brother. Do what you have to do with your personal life and God will make the rest come into happen. Shout out to Joel, yeah, shout out to Joel, brother. He told me the truth straight up. He's like you better put that phone down. He told me he's like don't text me, Don't call it.
Speaker 1:Leave her alone. No, keep it real long, like you know. Like, don't do that. Okay, we're going to take a quick break from this episode of the podcast and I'm going to bring on my brother, bw Ben Williams. How long have you been rocking with the good gospel? Loving that good gospel.
Speaker 4:A long time. It feels like I don't know the exact amount of time, but a while.
Speaker 1:it feels like If I wanted to hear your story, could I do that by finding it on the Death to Life podcast.
Speaker 4:I think so. To be honest, I don't think I've ever found it, because I don't like listening to myself, but I think it's there.
Speaker 1:You've been on this podcast like three times what You've been on it three times.
Speaker 4:Your own episode and then, uh, the two bible verse traps this is news to me. I, but I got. I was like, listen where? So where would I go if I, if I, I didn't even know, okay, where would I?
Speaker 1:next question. Next question then what has the gospel done in changing your life?
Speaker 4:uh, the gospel has just completely changed who I am, and maybe not like the personal, like my personality, necessarily, but like my heart has completely changed and it's I mean, it's something that when I look back and I think about who I used to be and think about the things I did or the thoughts I had, like it's it just feels so wildly foreign to me because of how much Jesus has changed my heart, so wildly foreign to me because of how much Jesus has changed my heart. And so, man, he's just changed literally everything for me, not only for, like, eternal life, but also just for my everyday life. It's been great.
Speaker 1:Ben, you have dedicated time, money and energy to see the gospel moving forward. Why is that important to you?
Speaker 4:It's important to me because the gift that was given to me wasn't just for me, and I think, as I realize and just take to heart more and more just who I am to God like, it also makes me recognize that everybody else is also that person to God like, so precious, so valuable, and he did something amazing for all of us. And if literally anybody, like even the richest, most happy person in the world, like if they were to receive the gospel, it would change everything for the better. There's not one person that doesn't need to hear the good news, and so that's why for me, like I just want to push it forward.
Speaker 1:I love it. If you're listening to this and you want to partner with Love Reality to get the gospel moving forward, you can go to loverealityorg slash give. You know the web address loverealityorg slash give. Every dollar donated goes to moving this message forward, whether it's through the podcast, internet, church. Whether it's just getting Ben a haircut Actually, no, it is not getting Ben a haircut.
Speaker 4:I'm growing my hair out. Okay, I like it. Dude, it's in an awkward stage, I like it. Your dollars do an awkward stage, I like it.
Speaker 1:Your dollars do not go to that, but they go to moving the gospel forward.
Speaker 4:But if you don't want to go to that cash app at Ben Williams, Do not do that.
Speaker 1:Let's get back to the episode.
Speaker 4:That's not even my cash app.
Speaker 2:Eventually I was able to overcome my insecurities because now I'm starting to finally accept the promises of Jesus in my life. We're now like where I'm no longer defined by her rejection. I am defined by God's acceptance of me and that gave me peace, because for some reason I was a huge people pleaser for a very long time, whereas, like, as someone's rejection like, would affect my self-esteem. Now this is like I'm a son. Someone rejects me, father accepts me. That's more important.
Speaker 1:Like that bullying bro, that thing kind of shaped you a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it affected me a lot.
Speaker 1:Actually, now that I think about it, it does, and so, god healing you from that and allowing you to walk in confidence and righteousness Yep, confidence and righteousness.
Speaker 2:Yup, and God is good because after that we were able, you know we got together. Eventually we got married and we've been able to form a family.
Speaker 1:and you know like it's all because of God you know because if it wasn't because of God, I wouldn't have been able to do this. Wow, man, so you. Throughout these last couple of God, I wouldn't have been able to do this. Wow, man, so you, throughout these last couple of years, I've been counting on you. You ask real questions, you message me and you're kind of because you've had a lot of things that you believed about God, right, and so you're like, well, what about this and what about this, and what about this and what about this and what about this? Talk to me about that curiosity, that thing that, like, you're kind of just going after knowing who he is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so now, like I'm just excited to get to know, like who God really is, because for such a long time I believed a lie about him.
Speaker 2:So it's like now, like I'm able to, to like I am learning about god the real one, you know, like not this artificial god that some people preach about in churches, but like the real god of the bible, the one that's like talked about in the sun, the prodigal son story, that god, the real god, the one in the bible. It's exciting, bro, because like now, like I'm able to how do I say this? Freely share with other people that he loves them, and that has nothing to do with the tats that they have on their arms, the jewelry, the dress code, anything wrong they've ever done. He simply loves them. And because of that I'm intrigued to ask so many more questions on where it's just like this is the type of god that is real and intimate and he's redemptive. And before I was just looking at guys like as, like a person of authority, you know, like who has the power to send me to heaven or hell but now he's kind of like your father.
Speaker 2:He's literally like my father. He is my father in heaven. And it's good, bro, because now I'm able to have friends of all types of walks of life. Before I wasn't able to do this, I was very close-minded. If it wasn't like a conservative Seventh-day Adventist, I was not associating with them at all, unless it was just to sell canvassing books trying to convert them to my religion. But outside of that I wasn't associating myself with people of different faiths. Now that I'm getting to know who God really is, I am able to connect with family members like friends from before and not feel like this negative energy I used to feel before when I had the wrong image of God in my mind when I had the wrong image of God in my mind.
Speaker 1:Wow, bro. So the way you would describe how God changed your heart towards him, how, would you describe that?
Speaker 2:It changed because I felt like, growing up, I had to earn the approval of people around me, so I always felt like I had to do something, like something to impress them, to make them laugh, or, if not, making them laugh is making them feel comfortable or being a good listener. I always felt like I had to do something to earn love from someone. If I didn't do it for them, they weren't going to love me. That's how I always felt growing up. But now, with God, I was viewing him the same exact way. Like God will love me if I'm giving my tithes, my offerings, I'm canvassing, I'm doing ministry. Like that's only when he, that's like when he'll love me when I'm trying my hardest. But if I'm having a down day or not doing nothing at all, he's not going to be happy with me, he's going to be angry with me. And I was far from the truth, because God has loved me the same way always good or bad days, he always has loved me.
Speaker 1:The good Like he always has loved me the same way. Yeah, so this is where I'm going to take you. Let's say, um, you're at the hotel and a kid just walks in and his head is kind of low and he wants to just get to his room. And you're at a big event, the big religious event. To just get to his room. And you're at a big event, a big religious event, and you start talking to him and what is revealed to you is that he just left a place that he shouldn't be at, similar to where you were back in the day, and he's feeling guilt and shame and condemnation. And you get to put your arm around this kid and you get to minister to this kid. Old Christian from back in the day, you could see this guy in this kid. What would you say to this kid?
Speaker 2:What I would tell him is the following you are loved, you are cared for, and it doesn't matter in what season you're in. Right now, god is not going to love you any more or any less, and you're going to be able to walk free from this. It is not the end. It is just the beginning of something new, if you were to accept that you are loved by Jesus Christ. Hmm.
Speaker 1:Man. That's powerful man, Christian, you have a beautiful story because there's both. You know, sometimes we hear stories of someone who was in the world like my friend, john Laulangi. He was directing porn in the valley and then he comes to Christ. And then sometimes we hear people who are ultra conservative and rigid and self-righteous and then they comes to christ. And then sometimes we hear people who are ultra conservative and rigid and self-righteous and then they come to christ. You got a combination of both. Man, you have a powerful story and both extremes are extremes that are hurtful and can hurt a lot of people yes um and jesus freeing us from sin, being our salvation, being our righteousness, being our sanctification, and that's.
Speaker 1:It's not an extreme, it just is. It's what he's done, right? Yes, so, man, I've been blessed to hear this story. I think your life, you, your family, your kid, your wife, I think you're going to continue to be a blessing to people, because this story is a lot more common than we think, right, or common than we know, and you can be right there to put your arm around somebody and say, hey, man, god loves you, you are forgiven. This is what he's actually done for you, right?
Speaker 2:Hey man.
Speaker 1:So, man, thank you for coming on. Man, You're a blessing to me and this episode is going to going to bless people, thank you. Thank you for having me, absolutely, bro, man. What a powerful testimony. And if you're sitting here and you think that God loves you based on whether or not you perform this, prayers for you, father in heaven, thank you that you've made me clean. Thank you that you've made me pure. Thank you that you've sanctified me through your son, jesus Christ. Thank you that you've loved me with an everlasting love, not because of the things that I've done or haven't done, but you love me because it's who you are. You are love and so I receive it. I receive your forgiveness, I receive your holiness, I receive your peace in Jesus's name, amen.
Speaker 1:If you want to vibe with us and you want to get encouraged in the Lord, come to Internet Church every other Friday night. You can text Internet Church. I'm going to tell you what to text. To Text it to this number. Text Internet Church to 808-204-4372. That's 808-204-4372. And we'll send you a link when it's time to be at Internet Church and vibe with us. It is a beautiful time. So that's the love reality. Number is 808-204-4372. And let's encourage each other. In truth, love y'all, appreciate y'all.