What happens when a young girl from Brazil, with a love for chicken hearts and a complex relationship with her faith, moves to California not knowing a word of English? Join us as Bianca takes us on her incredible journey of transformation on the Death to Life podcast. From navigating cultural and religious influences in Brazil to adapting to a new life in California, Bianca's story is a testament to the power of faith and community in overcoming life's obstacles. Hear about her struggles with control, self-worth, and the challenges posed by her faith community, and how she found freedom and self-acceptance through Jesus.

This episode is a moving exploration of identity, faith, and the transformative power of the Gospel, leaving you inspired and encouraged to embrace your own spiritual journey. Tune in for a heartfelt and powerful narrative that showcases the resilience of the human spirit and the boundless grace of God.

0:00 - From Victim Mentality to Transformation
12:06 - Adapting to Life in California
17:40 - Discovering Faith Through Music and Theater
23:20 - Overcoming Victim Mentality and Identity Transformation
29:30 - Finding Identity Through Faith and Community
39:47 - Navigating Faith and Identity in College
46:51 - Navigating Romance and Relationships in College
55:42 - Navigating Expectations in Marriage
1:05:26 - Navigating Marriage and Mental Health
1:20:01 - Spreading the Message of Salvation
1:24:55 - Navigating Growth and Redemption in Marriage
1:36:30 - Embracing Identity in Faith

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Speaker 1: 0:35

The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is Death to Life.

Speaker 2: 0:59

The other thing is I also lived with this victim mentality. So if there was somebody better than me, then it was because of my circumstances, it was because I didn't have support, or it was because a list of reasons for why I wasn't the best there was always a reason Because I was a victim.

Speaker 1: 1:18

Yo, welcome to the Death to Life podcast. My name is Richard Young and today's episode is with Bianca. Bianca is so sweet, dealt with control issues, value worth. You know the same old tricks that the enemy throws. He was throwing them at Bianca, to her chagrin. But you know what God made a way, and the story is going to be beautiful. You're going to love to hear her heart and what God has done. And so let's get into it. Buckle up, strap in Love y'all, appreciate y'all. Here is Bianca. All right, biancaca, where are we going? Take us to the start. Where is the start of the Bianca story?

Speaker 2: 2:11

I knew you're gonna ask this and I was thinking about it and I still don't really know, but we're just gonna go with the beginning I grew up at the beginning.

Speaker 1: 2:20

We'll go back there. I know there's only one person who's been like. I'm going to take you to the middle. Most people go to the beginning. That's fine. Where'd you grow up, okay, so.

Speaker 2: 2:32

I grew up in Brazil.

Speaker 1: 2:33

You're Brazilian.

Speaker 2: 2:34

I am yes.

Speaker 1: 2:37

I would have guessed that you're central american, but you're brazilian no, south american.

Speaker 2: 2:43

Yeah, anyways, I did a 23 and me recently and I am, I'm half asian, my dad is japanese, oh, and there's other stuff in there where did he meet your mom? In Brazil.

Speaker 1: 2:58

Naturally.

Speaker 2: 2:59

I'm not quite sure. Yes, I'm not sure if he was born in Japan or if he was born in Brazil.

Speaker 1: 3:07

But you were born in Brazil. What city in Brazil were you born in?

Speaker 2: 3:11

I was born in Sao Paulo, but my family's from the south of Brazil, rio Grande do Sul, so that's where I spent the first eight years of my life, and then we moved up north to manaus big city, in the middle of the amazon forest, and I was there till 12 and I came here when you go to a chuhaskaria, do you eat the chicken? Hearts. That perfectly, yes, I do you eat the chicken hearts.

Speaker 1: 3:40

You said that perfectly.

Speaker 2: 3:41

Yes, I do. You eat the chicken heart? I do, it's actually one of my favorite, favorite meats.

Speaker 1: 3:45

For the listener. In the places in Brazil that I've been to they don't have like restaurants like Golden Corral. They just have different churrascarias, which is a ton of beef and like a really good salad bar, but then and you have this thing on your table that if it's like green or if it's on, they'll just keep coming to your table with food and one guy comes with a spear of chicken hearts and it's as gross as it sounds.

Speaker 1: 4:16

I did not eat any when I was down there, but you love them. What's the texture? Is there a crunch? Is there like?

Speaker 2: 4:24

Okay, I'm told it tastes like liver. It's maybe a. There's no crunch. Rich Did you ask if there's a crunch.

Speaker 1: 4:30

Yeah, because it feels like it's a heart. So there's ventricles and all this. It feels like it would be chewy.

Speaker 2: 4:42

I don't know, I couldn't do it. Okay, it is cheery, but, and it's good. It is weird, though, than when you say it that way, there's a sphere full of chicken hearts.

Speaker 1: 4:46

That's exactly what it is, though given to you it is okay. So you grew up in brazil eating chicken hearts? Yes, were you an adventist?

Speaker 2: 4:56

yes, keep going yes, yes, so my, my mom's family is Adventist. My dad was not Adventist, I don't think he was Christian at all. So when I grew up as a sort of dichotomy of a home where in the home we didn't really have it wasn't really a Christian home necessarily, but my grandparents were very Adventist, so my on my mom's side, necessarily, but my grandparents were very Adventist, so my on my mom's side. So I went to church and I knew all the traditions of Adventism and all of that and I was very familiar with Adventism, but like in and out of church growing up, if that makes sense. But it was interesting because I grew up with.

Speaker 2: 5:33

My mom has two brothers and they are stark opposites on where they fall in in. Well, they used to be in Adventism and one of them is pretty conservative, One of them is a little bit more liberal. I don't like those labels, but yeah, so I grew up with both, seeing both sides of Adventism. I guess this will come up later on, but Adventism has always been around but I haven't always liked it.

Speaker 1: 6:06

So what does that mean?

Speaker 2: 6:10

It means okay. So for jumping forward into the story, my parents got divorced when I was eight or so and I think even before that my mom's experience in the church wasn't great. There was just a lot of judging, like my dad was an Adventist, right, so there was like judgment. And then when she got divorced, there was also some judgment that she felt, and so I think this is my perspective. Her story could be totally different, but this was my perspective growing up and I think that I harbored a lot of that I don't want to say grudge, but that ill feelings towards Adventism because of the way that I saw my mom interacting with the church and yeah, in my Help me with that.

Speaker 1: 6:54

She was frustrated with the church, or she led her.

Speaker 2: 6:57

I don't think she was frustrated with the church. I think it was just there was my. My grandparents were pretty conservative. I think she just grew up with this very legalistic mindset and it wasn't good for her. She just tried to break out of it but felt like maybe she needed to fit into it and so there was, just, like I saw a lot of internal struggle on that yeah, that arena, and so I don't think that she was ever frustrated with the church and she was still in the church. But there was just it wasn't like we went to church every week and wasn't like church was always a happy topic to talk about. I grew up with this weird vision of the church because my grandparents were awesome and they taught me about Jesus and they took me to Sabbath school and all of that, and so I grew up with that influence. But then seeing how my mom felt was different from that.

Speaker 1: 7:54

So who was this God? That was the main who you worshiped in this church.

Speaker 2: 8:03

I don't know if I had actually really thought about God until maybe later, after the divorce. So I think before the divorce, like I said, it wasn't necessarily a Christian home because my dad wasn't Christian, so I don't, I didn't really think about it. It was. God was just what you talked about in church, like it. Just it wasn't something I really thought about as a kid. But at some point after the divorce so my dad was with me for pretty much every day, I think towards the end of their marriage. He was a stay-at-home dad, so I remember just spending a lot of time with him and when they got divorced it went till maybe I saw him once a year till I moved to the States. Oh, wow.

Speaker 2: 8:50

There was just this big difference in my interactions with my dad, and so I think around that time is when I probably started noticing God like noticing and actually forming an opinion of who he is and I think I just I grew up with this notion of God just being very distant. Again, my grandparents still took us to church, and so there's this God was what you talked about in church, and church and God were like almost the same thing and there wasn't really a big distinction. But I think I was thinking about this and I think at that point I did. I still didn't really think about God very much, but it was a little bit more of something I thought about, especially because I my last year and a half in Brazil so like age 11, 12, I was in an Adventist school, so there was chapel and worship and all of that every day. So this was something that I thought a little bit more about.

Speaker 2: 9:47

But I think that my vision back then was actually that God was a little unfair. Yeah, yeah, and I mean I guess it makes sense if I look back on it my dad wasn't there anymore and my mom was going through a really hard time during that season and in my mind it wasn't fair that my mom was going through this and it didn't feel like I do remember it didn't feel like the church was specifically helping us. So maybe they weren't doing anything bad and were saying anything bad or judging or anything like that explicitly, but it also wasn't helping and somewhere in my brain I think I had the idea that churches are supposed to help people that are hurting and I think my vision of God at that point was that he was unfair. I never really rebelled against God at that point, but I think that was my vision. He was unfair and distant. He was just far away and maybe didn't really care about what was going on.

Speaker 1: 10:50

Yeah, Kind of like an agnostic feeling. He's up there but he's not really involved in my life.

Speaker 2: 10:57

Yeah, I guess that's a good way to describe it, yeah at 12, where do you move? We moved to the states. The first year I was here I was in the bay area um why'd you guys move?

Speaker 1: 11:11

what happens? You just why they're like, let's just leave here honestly, I don't remember.

Speaker 2: 11:19

Like I said, my mom was going through a tough time, so I think there was. She knew people out here that were friends when she was in high school, college, and so I think it was just she decided to come out here and I don't know if the intention was for us to stay, but we stayed. She had an accident that like prolonged our stay here throughout like the whole summer. So I think we came in June, because it was right around my birthday, and then she had an accident over here that ended up sending her to the hospital and so she had to stay, and then I think we just decided to stay, because then it was August and school was starting and she was like I don't know how much longer I'm going to be here, so I'm just going to put you guys in school, so, hopefully, just stay.

Speaker 1: 12:06

So the Bay area is where you guys were, like San Francisco, oakland, which one? Do you know what city it was?

Speaker 2: 12:14

Yes, it was, we were right by mountain view.

Speaker 1: 12:17

Oh, there's an. There's an Adventist, school right there.

Speaker 2: 12:20

Yes, there is. Yeah, Mountain View Academy there is. I had friends from there. I did not go there, though, so it was an interesting time because I got put in school. They put me back a grade because I didn't speak any English and they didn't want to put me in middle school without knowing any English. So they put me in sixth grade and I was in the Silicon Valley with a bunch of rich kids and not knowing any English. So it was quite the adventure. There were some kids who were nice and some who weren't so nice.

Speaker 1: 12:57

You didn't know what they were saying, but it didn't look like they were being nice exactly.

Speaker 2: 13:01

I didn't know what was happening, so I just knew the ones that were nice to me and I, that was fine how long did it take to for you to start speaking english fluently? I think I was in esl for a year and a half, so sixth grade, and then half of seventh grade in a half, so sixth grade, and then half of seventh grade, and then they're like you're good wow, thumbs up.

Speaker 1: 13:23

Do you remember like really kind of grabbing onto some of the language and being like, oh, and getting some confidence, and all that at 12 years old?

Speaker 2: 13:31

that's a big deal I yeah, I guess it is honestly I don't remember. I I like I think I've always been this way, I don't really care what people think about me, and I think that helped me, because I just spoke things and I they weren't right for the first year that I was trying to speak it, but I just said things and that helped me to just learn it. So I don't remember any moment where I was like, oh my gosh, I'm speaking english. I remember some points where I tried to speak english and it didn't work, didn't work but yeah, I don't remember any specific point where I was like oh, I got it.

Speaker 2: 14:17

Yeah, maybe it was a song, I don't remember what song, but I just remember wanting to sing in English and I think the first time that I probably sang in English without reading words was probably pretty cool. I don't remember the feeling.

Speaker 1: 14:33

Was it a Lady Gaga song?

Speaker 2: 14:37

No, it was probably a Hannah Montana song. So, is this like 2008, 2010? Like what? What time?

Speaker 1: 14:46

2008, exactly, yeah, that's pretty good. Pat myself on the back. You said hannah montana, good job. And uh, your boy knows a little bit about miley cyrus. Okay, do not mess around. I know the zeitgeist that when she was, hannah montana was killing it in 2008, which makes me feel really old. Also because if that's when you were in the sixth and seventh grade, I'm like wow, you're like you're a baby right now. Okay, so keep going. What happened? You're learning english. You're in the states, you're in. So keep going. What happened? You're learning English, you're in the States.

Speaker 2: 15:24

You're in public school, keep going. Okay, what happens? So my mom got married, got married to my stepdad. Now, at the end of that first year I think it was like early 2009, I think when they got married, so it was very quickly. After we moved here and after I finished school in 2009, we moved to the central Valley in California Nantica, california. That's where I lived for 10 years, yeah. So then I went to middle school, there, high school, and he had four kids already. So he had the his oldest was a girl and then three boys. So we went from being me, my mom and my sister for the last five years before that to then living with four boys one of which was it's quite the change.

Speaker 2: 16:26

It was quite the change. Um. One of them was the youngest boy, was the same age as me, so we were in the same grade, went to the same school for middle school and, uh, then the two other ones were older. They were in high school at the time. So yeah, it was an adjustment.

Speaker 1: 16:49

Were you guys going to church heavily at this time? Or did she marry an Adventist or a Christian, or what was that?

Speaker 2: 16:55

Yes, he is an Adventist. So we were going to a Brazilian church for the first two years yeah, the first two years when we got here, and that's where they met. That's where they met the Brazilian church. So you're in school.

Speaker 1: 17:09

What was high school like in regards to what you're considering about God? At some point in high school we start considering God a little bit more. Correct what you're considering?

Speaker 2: 17:21

about God. At some point in high school we start considering God a little bit more correct. Yeah, so actually some time around middle school, and I don't know what triggered this desire, but at some point in middle school I really wanted to be a Christian. I don't know if I would have phrased it necessarily as I want to know God, but I wanted to be a Christian. And so I found the couple of people who were Christian at that time at school and that's who I became friends with, and I think this was seventh grade, maybe it was eighth grade. One of them gave me a little book. It's this devotional book that I have right here. It's called His Princess and it's literally just like one pagers, it's like super short and it has some verses on the other side and I just remember reading this book and being like, wow, this is super cool I have.

Speaker 2: 18:15

There's a God who calls me his princess or his daughter, and I just remember just feeling like that was. I don't remember putting words to it, but I felt like God was present. So it went from like God being a really distant God, an unfair God, to then now God is present, like he's there, and I remember even what age. Are you in middle school, 12, 13-ish, like I feel like I was pretty young to be thinking about this. But I was looking back at my life, like our life in Brazil and like my mom's life, grandparents, like all of our lives intertwined, and I remember looking back and being like, wow, it's so cool that I can see God through our story and I guess I can look back and I can pinpoint what I was thinking about.

Speaker 2: 19:07

But I remember having that distinct thought of God has always been there and I remember just clinging onto that thought and that was middle school. Ever since then there's always been something inside me that I really want. I like the presence of God and I want to be in the presence of God and I want to be a Christian. That's how I described it then. So going into high school I think somewhere in late eighth grade and my freshman year of high school, I forgot about that. It was like in the back burner. It was there but it wasn't something I really thought about. I got into theater and musicals and singing and band and all of that and it was. I had such a fun time in it that I guess it took over what I was thinking about.

Speaker 2: 19:56

Are you a good singer, some say.

Speaker 1: 20:00

What were the main musicals that you sang in?

Speaker 2: 20:04

I did Beauty and the Beast and I did Anything Goes.

Speaker 1: 20:08

Were you, belle, I was Wow, you have to be a good singer. If you were singing Bonjour, bonjour, like you have to be tight. Yeah, those were fun times.

Speaker 2: 20:24

I still is there a youtube video of you performing beauty and the beast at your public high school I don't think so, unfortunately sad I have looked, I don't think there is, but that's okay, okay, I'll just remember them so you were a theater kid a little bit. I was I. For at least those two years I was a theater kid they're the best. I thank you rich, I agree.

Speaker 1: 20:55

I substitute at the local public high school and all the stereotypes that pretty much line up. There's theater kids, there's jocks, there's all that stuff and the theater kids, they're passionate, they're going for it. Yeah. A little strange sometimes.

Speaker 2: 21:13

Yes, yes, I agree.

Speaker 1: 21:18

But they're going for it. They got a plan.

Speaker 2: 21:22

They have fun and that's. Yeah, I really enjoyed that. That was a good thing, yeah. And in high school I also got very it sounds funnier to say, but I got very serious about choir. It was like that was my thing. I just loved singing. The first year I would. So I was a freshman in college honor choirs and what was it? In high school they called it advanced choir. And then at some point during my freshman year I also decided we need a um acapella quartet for the ladies, because there was a quartet for the guys, and so I pulled together some of the other girls in school that liked to sing and we made it. I think it was actually an octet. It was like two sets, but yeah. So I was just like that was my thing.

Speaker 2: 22:17

I just I wanted to sing and I wanted more singing, and so I made it happen, so that was a really big thing for me in high school. It was all throughout high school and after high school, and actually it still is.

Speaker 1: 22:32

This one's just for me, not for the listener. Listener, keep scrolling what's your favorite musical? And if it isn't West Side Story, what's wrong?

Speaker 2: 22:42

I ever watched West Side Story. What.

Speaker 1: 22:46

I know, I know, crazy, we're done, we're going on the list so what?

Speaker 2: 22:52

is it going on the list waitress? It's not a very well-known one and I think it came. Is it from the movie 15? Okay, yes, it was an adaptation from a movie and then the musical got also filmed as a movie. So there's a waitress the musical, the movie is it the, the lady that makes pie?

Speaker 1: 23:16

yes okay, I haven't seen it. Yes, it's good. I thought you're gonna say hamilton, I'm glad, I'm glad waitress instead of hamilton. But you probably love hamilton, don't you? I?

Speaker 2: 23:28

I like Hamilton. Yes, all right, I do enjoy Hamilton.

Speaker 1: 23:31

We'll keep moving. The listener can come back in. So this is your identity, would you say. Or what was your identity?

Speaker 2: 23:39

I think it was. I think it was my identity at that time, because it was just that. Or academics I don't know Both of them. I wanted to sing and I was really good in school and that's just that. Was that made up Bianca, at that time. During that time, yeah, I actually placed a lot of my identity in academics I think In performance maybe is how I could say it or accomplishments.

Speaker 2: 24:05

There was a lot of self-worth and I think when I look back on it, I think there's a part of it. That's when my mom and my parents got divorced and it was just my mom and my sister for a little bit. My mom worked like crazy. She worked like morning, afternoon, evening and was doing school, I think on her free time, the free time that she had. So she was very busy and I just remember at some point I got a really good grade and something and that made her really happy, and so I think it that's when it started where I just wanted to feel, I wanted to feel appreciated or I wanted to make my mom happy, and so I started putting a lot of worth on in that and it came back up in high school, eighth grade, high school somewhere around there and that just became a really big part of my identity where I just I wanted to be the best and I wanted to get the best grades and I decided I wanted to be a doctor at that time so I was like got to do what I got to do to get into a good school so that I can get into med school and be a doctor in 15 years.

Speaker 2: 25:20

Like just planning ahead was my thing. So, yeah, I did all sorts of like pre-med programs in high school and then in college and so I like was going for it, just like with the choir did I see that you just graduated from medical school?

Speaker 1: 25:38

did I see that on instagram?

Speaker 2: 25:41

that was not medical school. No, what was it?

Speaker 1: 25:44

it was a master's in public health oh, master's in public health, so that's awesome yeah, so god redirected and we'll get there.

Speaker 2: 25:54

but yeah, so that was a lot of my identity. It was just how well can I perform and am I the best? And I will tell you rich? I can say this now because I'm free, I don't need that identity and my accomplishments. I tried so hard but I was never the best.

Speaker 1: 26:14

There was like I was going to say were you the best though? Were you the best? I wasn't.

Speaker 2: 26:20

I really wasn't. I okay, I'll say, in high school maybe I was a pretty good singer, Maybe that was maybe.

Speaker 1: 26:27

Oh, were you the best.

Speaker 2: 26:28

That title there.

Speaker 1: 26:31

That's the thing I don't know I'd whatever that's for your high school, but when you go to the next level, then it's all. So if you're always got to be the best unless you're barbara streisand, you're always going to be you're always going to be looking up yep, exactly so, yeah, yeah, there's always somebody gonna that's going to be looking up.

Speaker 2: 26:49

Yep, exactly so, yeah, yeah, there's always somebody that's going to be better than you at something. So it was just, it was bad, it was toxic, as the kids say nowadays.

Speaker 2: 27:00

There was just like there was so much comparison that came from that too, where I just because I had to be the best- best then I would compare myself to the best, because I had to get to where they are, and it wasn't even about me being better, right, even people say that's okay. Now too, it's just be better than yourself, than you were today or yesterday. But it wasn't even about that. It was just like I want to be the best and that person's the best, so I must be that person.

Speaker 1: 27:31

I need to be better than you. I don't need to be better than just this person. Like you, you must be lower so I can be higher.

Speaker 2: 27:41

Yes, and that was honestly. I just lived with that like it was normal until last year. Just I look back on it and I'm just like Did you know you were living like that? No, I didn't. Because the other thing is, I also lived with this victimhood mentality where I was the victim. So if there was somebody better than me, then it was because of my circumstances, or it's because of this, or it's because I didn't have support, or it was because of my circumstances, or it was because of this, or it was because I didn't have support, or it was because a list of reasons, whatever reasons there were for why I wasn't the best, there was always a reason. And because I was a victim, so I just I just couldn't be there.

Speaker 1: 28:22

Where did this victim thing come in?

Speaker 2: 28:25

I don't know. I don't know If I trace it back. I think it's been around since at least middle school and I don't know if it's been before that, but somewhere around there.

Speaker 2: 28:50

So it's always unfair. Yes, everything was always unfair. God was unfair, god was unfair, life was unfair, everything was unfair. Apparently I think it makes sense that popped up in middle school, because that's when I started reflecting back, remember the book, and I thought, oh, god is present, and I reflected back on my life and seeing, oh, god has been in my. I think that reflecting made me feel like, oh, I didn't have my dad and oh, my family is so far away because it's just me and my mom and my sister here, and so I think there was a lot in there that maybe made me feel like this victimhood mentality was a thing.

Speaker 2: 29:30

After that, in high school, I actually was planning to go into music. My plan was to go. I left high school early Okay, I'll get to that in a second but my plan initially was to go to college for music and be pre-med at the same time and then go be a doctor doctor, but like having had that music experience so that sounds very familiar I was like I want to go so and I wanted to go as far away as possible from my parents like juilliard.

Speaker 1: 30:00

Let me just get into juilliard in new york city just just real quick, just a random music school at the opposite part of the world, so that I don't have to be yeah, so I was just.

Speaker 2: 30:14

yeah, there was a rebel in me at that time. I guess I was just being a teen, but so what happened? Yeah, okay. So in high school there was another part of I don't know if this was necessarily my identity, but this was something that was really important to me at the time and that was the attention from boys. And for me it's pretty obvious because I just grew up without a dad, so I just felt the need to have the attention of boys and I.

Speaker 2: 30:43

In high school it became a problem. I shouldn't say it that way. It wasn't that bad. In high school it became a problem. I shouldn't say it that way. It wasn't that bad, but it was just something I was always thinking about. There was just I don't even know if I worried about having a crush myself. It was just like that guy is popular, or that guy, other girls have a crush on him, so I want him to have a crush on me. That was my perspective. It wasn't like like I have a sweet crush on this boy. It was just I want them to like me. It's not that.

Speaker 1: 31:19

I need to like them. It's not that I need to be liked as much as I need to be praised and loved by popular people. Yeah, so how did that work? Was it going well in high school with getting the attention of the gentleman?

Speaker 2: 31:38

It was. Yeah, it was, it worked. I don't know what I was doing, but it worked.

Speaker 1: 31:46

There was a thing. You guys know what you're doing. You guys know what you're doing. You girls know what you're doing. Okay, you're like I didn't know what I was doing, I was just being a little flirty. You guys know exactly what you're doing okay, okay, you're right okay, you're brazilian and I don't want to be stereotypical about brazilians, but you guys know what you're doing.

Speaker 2: 32:05

All right case I don't know ridge I don't know no, the brazilians know I'll own it. Yeah, so it was. It was going great, there was I. I got the attention, especially being bell and the beast was attracted.

Speaker 1: 32:24

Gaston was attracted. Lumiere, sorry, everybody, everybody. The clock I don't know what his name is. He was the teacup.

Speaker 2: 32:39

Oh man, yeah, so it was going well. So my freshman year I dated a senior. So I thought that was pretty cool, pretty cool. So it was not a good relationship at all, and I don't even know how long it lasted, because it seems like those high school relationships feel like forever, but they were probably like two weeks long, yeah, I don't know how long it was, but it just it wasn't good. It just wasn't good and he was after things that I shouldn't have been getting involved with at the time. Yeah, wasn't good. We then my second year in high school I don't know what happened. My second year in high school I decided I wanted to be a christian again. I don't think I ever decided not to be a christian, but it just wasn't fresh.

Speaker 1: 33:31

You started doing not Christian things and then you're like all right now that I'm done with those not Christian things. Let me go back. Let me go ahead and be a Christian.

Speaker 2: 33:40

Something like that. So my second year I was like again looking for other people who were Christians, and so I surrounded myself by Mormons who have pretty similar lifestyle to Adventists. So I just felt right at home with them because I was like, oh, I know, this is what I'm supposed to be doing, so this is great. They also loved music, so it just worked really well. Yeah, so that second year was a lot of just hanging out with a lot of Mormon friends. I think that was the year that I actually also started a Christian club on campus or tried to start a Christian club on campus. So there was like me and a few other students and a teacher who was like openly Christian, and so we just all got together during lunchtime and I don't know what we did. We probably did some Bible studies or something, but I don't remember and that was another experience where I felt like God was present. One of those lunch times I remember feeling really stressed out with school because I had to be the best. So I was in all of the honors and AP or advanced, whatever else you want to call it, all of it, and all the extracurriculars that I could be part of, and all of it. So I was just really stressed and I remember praying during that lunchtime and I think I was praying with the other kids there too, but I just remember praying and this literal weight lifting off my shoulders and after praying and I was like, okay, god is present. There, he is again. That's cool. And I think from that point on in high school, god was always present. He was always there somewhere, even if it wasn't front of mind. So, yeah, that was my second year.

Speaker 2: 35:28

My third year was a lot of just academics. I sunk myself even deeper into academics, um, because, oh, I think this was actually at my second year in high school, I think I decided not to do honor choirs anymore because the performances were on Saturday, on Sabbath, or the practices were on Sabbath or something like that. So at some point I decided I didn't want to do that, and some of it was prompted by my stepdad and my mom and they were saying like, oh, we don't really want to go see this, or you don't really want to go drop you off because it's Sabbath, and blah, blah, blah. And so at some point during my second year I decided I can't do honor choirs anymore, which made me really sad and then made me dig deeper into the academics, because I could do that that's not my identity anymore.

Speaker 1: 36:19

Now it's all academics exactly.

Speaker 2: 36:22

There's no half and half anymore, it's entirely books. Yeah, that was my whole third year. And then at the end of that third year I was so deep into my academics identity that I decided I don't want to wait another year to go to college. Let me just because remember I got put back a grade, so I was 18 at the end of my third year in high school, junior year. So then I decided I want to wait another year to go to college. So let me just go to college. And I took the GED and I just started community college. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 36:58

After my third year yeah, I was just so deep in it, I was like I just want to get there as quickly as possible.

Speaker 1: 37:06

What happened then? How was that? How was community college? It's different than high school.

Speaker 2: 37:11

It was a little different. Yeah, um, it was fine the first year I was doing classes with my mom. My mom was going back to school for nursing, so I was taking classes with her that first year, which I think was a good for our relationship. We just spent more time together and I went from being this rebellious teen to being like, okay, I'll help my mom and we'll do classes together I'll help you out. So I think it was good for us During this time. I think this started somewhere before I went to community college.

Speaker 2: 37:46

Into my first couple of years, we started going back to church. So before that, in high school, we weren't really going to church very actively. We'd go every once in a while, but not religiously. So somewhere before community college, into community college, we started going to church again, but it wasn't an Adventist church, it was an Adventist reform church. What does that mean? So they it is the easiest way to describe it is they're not adventists, they're like their own denomination, but they're like they have all the adventist beliefs there's just like more conservative adventists.

Speaker 2: 38:24

I guess we started going there because they had a Brazilian church. It's like the only Brazilian church in, like all of this area of California. So we started going there and I got. I really loved the community because they were really loving. There was a lot of young people, so a lot of people my age, whereas any time we'd go to church before there was nobody my age. So I really liked to go in there because there was a bunch of people my age and we got to hang out. They did a bunch of fun things.

Speaker 2: 39:01

It reminded me of being back in Brazil when my grandparents would take me to church and it was like a whole day ordeal where you go to church and then you have lunch with people and then you go back to church for the afternoon like youth service or whatever, and then you spend more time together after that. It's a whole day thing, and that was the experience at this church, this Reformed church, and so I had a really good time. They were also they loved music. They were Brazilian, so they all sang, but then there was also an orchestra and there was a full choir and they even did a community choir, so it was mostly reformed folks, but they also invited other people from the community to play and to sing. So I just had a time in my life. I loved being there. It was just. It was great.

Speaker 2: 39:47

But looking back on it, I don't think that God was very front of mind at that point. There was some like behavioral changes, but it was mostly just because that was the norm, right, everybody else around me was following their set of rules. Reformers are all vegetarian. They don't eat meat. That's like a requirement for them. So I became vegetarian. I even became vegan for a while. I think that would probably be hard for them, so I became vegetarian.

Speaker 1: 40:11

I even became vegan for a while like that would probably be hard for a brazilian person, wouldn't it be?

Speaker 2: 40:15

it was rich, my parents hated it. They're like what do you mean? You're not gonna eat this anymore. And so, yeah, it was hard, didn't last very long. That's why. So yeah, address differently all of that. So there is like some behavioral changes and I think I wanted to have the spiritual aspect to it because I was like studying that whatever books they had like study books, guides they had like for sabbath school and stuff like that, I was going through it. But a part of me feels like it was like I wanted the spiritual aspect of it. But I was really doing it because I wanted to fit in to that group and and I wanted the attention of the boys and so in order to get the attention of the boys there, I had to to be a good Christian.

Speaker 1: 41:09

These vegetarian vegan boys. God bless them. You got to be a vegan if you're going to catch their eye. They see you nibbling on some chicken fingers. It's not going to happen.

Speaker 2: 41:21

It's just not going to happen. So yeah, so there is a lot of good, there's a lot of good memories, but just a lot of death behind it.

Speaker 1: 41:31

Or just religiosity right.

Speaker 2: 41:33

Or religiosity, yeah.

Speaker 1: 41:35

Yeah which is not the answer and will always lead to you doing something to be in right.

Speaker 2: 41:44

Yeah, exactly, I remember so when I was little. I remember going to church, probably with my grandparents, my mom and I remember seeing they do like mission spotlight over there in Brazil, like every Sabbath, in between Sabbath school and service, I think, and I remember seeing one of like medical missionaries. And ever since then the health aspect, the health message from the Adventist church, has always been really important to me. That's just been something I've always gravitated towards. This is important and I also, when I was little, always liked athletic things and fitness and things like that. Like I didn't know what an athlete was, but I wanted to be an athlete, essentially Like I would see athletes on the Olympics or whatever, and I was. I just loved what they were doing and I wanted to be an athlete.

Speaker 2: 42:43

So the health, fitness aspect of things was always something that was important to me. Aspect of things was always something that was important to me, but it also wasn't really taught necessarily to me by my family and so it was always a nebulous thing. It was just like, oh, okay, I know you can't eat these kinds of things and okay, being vegetarian is probably good for you and that's it. I didn't get taught much else outside of that, but it was always something I wanted to know more about. So going into the reform and having people who really value this, like this is a really big part of their beliefs. I was like, oh, finally people who can explain this to me and I can understand it and actually lean into that. But it actually, I think, led to some body image issues because I saw the people who were keeping the rules or like doing health the right way, looked different than I did, and the reality is they look different than I did just because they were different from me, like different ethnicity, different they were just different.

Speaker 2: 43:52

Yeah, different body types, all of that, and. But in my head it was like that is what I need to look like in order to say that I'm living this healthy lifestyle.

Speaker 1: 44:03

In order to live a healthy lifestyle, I need to be unhealthy.

Speaker 2: 44:08

So that I can then be healthy. It just makes so much sense. So yeah, so there was.

Speaker 1: 44:16

So did you like try? What kind of unhealthy habit did you pick up then? Or maybe you didn't. You tell me.

Speaker 2: 44:26

I don't think there was actually a habit that I picked up, because I was always really stubborn and I always wanted to do things for the right reasons. And I think there was a part of me that knew that if I wanted to lose weight not that I had any weight to lose at that time, but if I wanted to lose weight or if I wanted to be vegan and all of these things part of me was always like I don't think you have the right motive, so maybe we shouldn't do that. So I'm grateful that God didn't like put that there, because I think that it could have gotten pretty bad, but fortunately it did not. But it was just the body image issues. I think translated later in my relationship with my now husband, because there was a lot of comparison that led to jealousy. I guess you could say that there wasn't any eating disorders or anything like that, but there was. Yeah, definitely affected how I lived later on.

Speaker 2: 45:28

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 45:29

When did you meet up with this guy?

Speaker 2: 45:32

That was so. I did three years in community college and then transferred to UC Davis, where we met. Was he in. Adventist yeah, we had an Adventist club on campus and it was just a pretty big group of us at the university campus and that's where we met he was, uh.

Speaker 1: 45:53

UC Davis. What is the mascot for UC Davis?

Speaker 2: 45:58

it's a Mustang, but we're the Aggies because we used to be an ag school oh okay, it's not like the banana slugs or something like that no, that's Santa Cruz okay, not Not as cool as Aggies.

Speaker 1: 46:12

Aggies is cooler Keep going.

Speaker 2: 46:15

It has always been weird to me to say the banana slugs. So yeah, I'll go with Aggies.

Speaker 1: 46:22

So you met up in the Adventist club at UC Davis.

Speaker 2: 46:26

Yeah, it was a. That was a good time. That was was. That's something that I cherish a lot from my college memories and we still live around the university so we still go to some of their events and things like that they do the current students do. Yeah, it just has a very special place in my. I really appreciated having that community of people. That's awesome.

Speaker 1: 46:51

So so you meet Brian. What's that like?

Speaker 2: 46:56

Yes, so we met he was. He had already been at UC Davis for a year before I got there. So he, when we first met, there was a lot of bumping heads. We how does he like to tell the story? He likes to say that we didn't like each other. There was just we just bumped heads. I was pretty stubborn and sassy. He likes to say I was sassy.

Speaker 1: 47:27

Were you sassy.

Speaker 2: 47:34

I'm not sure if that's a word for an adult, but were you, I guess.

Speaker 1: 47:39

I was. I will give that to him. You could dish it out. You wouldn't take any guff you can just raise a stand.

Speaker 2: 47:51

I was just very honest.

Speaker 1: 47:56

You sound like Natatizi, my wife Very honest. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 48:03

So yeah. So when we met he I mean he can tell his story another time, but he had these people pleasing tendencies and I think that might have made an interesting match. He felt like he needed to win me over because I wasn't very, I wasn't a big fan.

Speaker 1: 48:25

Were you walking all over him, then Kind of.

Speaker 2: 48:27

You know, it was weird, rich, because when we met I thought first of all, wow, this guy is tall.

Speaker 1: 48:37

How tall, is he?

Speaker 2: 48:39

He's 6'4".

Speaker 1: 48:40

That is tall, oh man.

Speaker 2: 48:43

And he's, yeah, and he's just really lean. So he just looks really tall, Like even if he wasn't. He just looks really tall, but he also is tall. I didn't know he was that tall. So, yeah, he's very tall. I'm looking up. And I'm 5'1".

Speaker 1: 49:02

Oh my, Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Speaker 2: 49:07

Yeah, I should send you a picture of uh me not in heels, yeah. So when we first met, it was weird because I thought there was something like charming or like attractive about him, but at the same time I was like he's really loud and just very. I was like he's really loud and just very extroverted and it was just too much for me. So there was something that was attractive about him, but I also just didn't like it.

Speaker 1: 49:40

So are you, natalie? Are you like? This is exactly like my wife. I like Richard, in spite of Richard. Not because of Richard Were you like Ryan's cool, but not for any reason that he wants to be cool.

Speaker 2: 49:55

Oh my goodness, yes, actually that does sound very familiar, wow, yeah, so that was when we first met and I quickly became involved with the group. Like I wanted to help out in leading the group in any capacity I could, and he was already one of the leaders. So then when I became involved, then we started spending a lot more time together because we were probably there were other really passionate people about the group, but we were really passionate about the group and so we bonded over this shared passion for the group and leading the group and different vision for the group and all that. Yeah, we started spending a lot more time together. And after so he was dating somebody at this time and, yeah, not good, not good. Yeah, he was dating somebody at this point and in december I think december, so we meet in september, october, in like december, I think, he breaks up with his girlfriend. So after he breaks up with her, there's like a two month period or something. We're like we're just vibing, we're just friends and there's we started spending a lot more time together now because he doesn't have a girlfriend to go talk to. We spent a lot more time together and it's a lot of.

Speaker 2: 51:23

It is in a group setting. It's not just us two, but just that proximity helps to realize feelings sometimes and we went to a retreat for our group, for different groups on public campuses, and the speaker talked about he always talks about relationships to this day. Everywhere he goes he still talks about relationships. So that was one of goes. He still talks about relationships. So that was one of the talks that he talked about was about the Proverbs 31 woman and the Proverbs 31 man. And I remember sitting in that talk and I was thinking I feel like all of this is pointing to Brian and I realized during that retreat that I had feelings for Brian that I didn't really recognize before.

Speaker 1: 52:16

Brian, in spite of himself, is a Proverbs 31 man, yes, and I love him. Question mark I love him.

Speaker 2: 52:28

Question mark. So after that retreat we go home and I felt like God was telling me to talk to him like that. We should clear the air or something.

Speaker 2: 52:43

Get married Not yet, rich Not yet. Because yeah, because at that point we were still like doing ministry together, so we were still leading this group together and we just didn't want awkwardness to be in the middle of all of that, because that was important to us. So I felt, okay, I need to talk to him. And at the same time he also felt that he'd had feelings, but he didn't think it was reciprocated. So he was going to come and talk to me about hey, this is how I'm feeling. So I think we should take some time apart and just put some distance in here so that we can keep doing what we're doing with ACF, with our group on campus. So we come together. We talked that night in his car and he said something like I have feelings for you and my response is me too, and his face just goes. He was not expecting that. I was expecting this to go very differently. So that was the start of our what year was this?

Speaker 1: 53:50

this was 2018 2018 so what year did you guys get married? 2020 like in the middle of the pandemic, legitimately yes, in the middle of the pandemic, legitimately.

Speaker 2: 54:04

yes, in the middle of the pandemic, yes.

Speaker 1: 54:07

So all of these things, your identity, all of this stuff, and does it go into the marriage or like the expectations? And all of this stuff.

Speaker 2: 54:18

Yeah, yeah, so, yeah, okay. So let me fast forward a little bit. So we meet, we have that conversation. We had decided let's not do anything about this just yet. Let's like go pray and read and study and just spend some time before we like jump into just the feelings of things. And that didn't really work, if I'm being honest, because we were spending so much time together because of the group.

Speaker 1: 54:46

Man, I'm not sure if anyone has like ever been in love with someone and been talked out of it by God through prayer. Like man, I really love you with everything and I'm like infatuated and like you're the one. But I prayed and God said like usually, god just ends up agreeing with us. Isn't that interesting how that works and we don't have to go too deep into that.

Speaker 1: 55:08

But like when you love someone, you'll do anything. As brian adam says. You guys are like we're gonna go pray, but where are you gonna be after you pray?

Speaker 2: 55:19

yeah, yeah, that was hard but anyway, so started dating I think the month after that officially dating and okay, that was the year that I took the MCAT. So I was still pre-med at this point, I was still going hard on my academics, doing all sorts of different things. Oh, there's okay. Before we get here, I'm going to backtrack for a second, because in college and community college I went to a couple of research programs in different universities where God it it just feels like God was always chasing after me, rich, and if I look back on it, it's just God was always there and he was always like hey. Back on, it is just god was always there and he was always like hey, man, he really loves you, he really does, and it's just so awesome to look back on it and realize this. But those two research programs I was going there because of academics. That was just my identity, like I wanted to go and be the best and so I'm gonna go and do this research program. So I'm the best, at least in the eyes of these people who selected the participants. So the first one I go to was in Oregon and the one of the people who went there was this girl who was next door to me in the dorms that we were at and she was a Christian and she was pretty open about being a Christian. That we were at and she was a Christian and she was pretty open about being a Christian. And I thought, oh, this is pretty cool. Like we're all scientists, we're all doing like science-y projects here together and there's this Christian around here and she loves science and she loves God, and so we became really good friends and it felt like that was like God literally just put her there to be like hey, I know you want to run away from home and be far away from your family, but that doesn't mean I'm going to be far away, I'm still here, and so that that friendship has been really special to this day.

Speaker 2: 57:16

The next year I go to another one in Michigan and this one is a really big deal for me as a pre-med because it was at the med school and it was like specifically for pre-meds who wanted to go into medicine, and so that was like big deal for me. And so I get there and I'm like nervous but like really excited that I got into this program and the very first thing that we do as a cohort is sit down to get introduced to some of the doctors that lead the program, is sent down to get introduced to some of the doctors that lead the program. And this doctor, who is, like the head of the pediatrics department, head of this program and head of like other things, professor at the med school he's got like a bunch of titles. The thing that he talks about that night is how his faith has helped him in his career and how, even to this day, working in a public hospital, he still prayed with his patients who consented to it or whatever. And so he was talking about how faith was really important to him and how you can't leave out your identity and your culture and what makes you when you go into medicine.

Speaker 2: 58:19

And it just felt again. It was like God showing up and being like I know that you really want this and if you really want this, I want to go with you. I don't want to be left behind, and so that was like that was really impactful for me, because it was coming from somebody who I really respected and somebody who I just really like. I wanted what he had right, like I wanted that career and I wanted to go into medicine and to hear somebody say there is something more important was really impactful for me. So anyway, so those two experiences, I think, made it so. When I got to UC Davis and I found this Adventist group, I really wanted to, I wanted to serve God. I guess that was the motivation behind it. I really wanted to be involved. I really wanted that community.

Speaker 1: 59:12

That was your backtrack. We were telling about you getting married.

Speaker 2: 59:15

Yes, correct, Okay. So before we got married, 2018,. So a few months after we started dating, I was studying for and taking the MCAT, which is the big test to go to med school. And I was going to apply that year. I was in a rush, I just wanted to get there. I was taking the test and I wanted to apply for med school that same summer, which meant I was on a time crunch and didn't study for it. Well enough, clearly.

Speaker 1: 59:50

It's a tough test. From what I hear, I haven't taken it myself.

Speaker 2: 59:54

It is a hard test and I needed to have studied way more for it than I did, but there was just always this pride and I don't know what else Pride and part of it maybe is imposter syndrome of I've gotten to where I am now, but I really don't know what I'm doing. And it made it really hard to study for the test because I had no confidence that I could do well on the test, and so when I took.

Speaker 1: 1:00:18

That doesn't sound like pride.

Speaker 2: 1:00:19

To me sounds like insecurity there, there you go, that's a bet.

Speaker 1: 1:00:25

Now. It may parade itself around as pride, yes, but what's underneath of it is fear, shame, insecurity.

Speaker 2: 1:00:33

Yep, exactly. So I took the test and it went terribly, terribly. Super low score and looking back on it, it's expected because I just didn't study for it. I just I didn't know how to study for it and I was too insecure to ask for help and to receive help and to do anything about it. It was a really low score and it was like a. It solidified my insecurity and so I just went to a really dark place after that because after that I couldn't apply to med school with that score and so, okay, I can retake the test, but that also means I won't go to med school.

Speaker 2: 1:01:13

When I thought I was going to go to med school, there's just all sorts of like self-worth tied to it because I didn't do well on this test. That must mean that I am not smart and I'm not good and I'm not like so many different things just came up and I just went into it. It was just a dark few months where I was just yeah, I was just depressed, like I think I like skipped a bunch of class that quarter, that fall quarter. I still got good grades somehow, I don't know how, but I just I skipped a bunch of class. I just I wasn't going to work when I was supposed to go to work, like I. Just it was just a dark place, and that was the beginning of our relationship, me and Brian, so that that set a tone.

Speaker 1: 1:01:58

You're like Brian I don't believe I'm enough now, because it didn't go well in school and now you're dating me, and now it's on you to make me feel like I'm enough.

Speaker 2: 1:02:08

Yeah, I guess I did put that on him because it was that was the only good thing that I had. I just I was still doing well in school and that's fine and I got involved in some other pre-med kind of things in school but like at that point that didn't mean anything to me anymore because I was like I'm not good enough, so just going through the motions and so brian was like the only good thing that I felt I had and that just set a tone for our relationship. That just relationships aren't meant to get that serious that quickly, not when you're in college how old were you at this point?

Speaker 2: 1:02:41

2018.

Speaker 1: 1:02:45

I was wait 22 yeah yeah 22 so you meet him right away and there's.

Speaker 2: 1:02:53

It feels heavy, it feels like there's a lot riding on it yeah, there's just a lot and he's just, and he is there and I'm I was so grateful that he stayed through that process of me being in that dark place and trying to figure it all out. So there was just a lot hinging on him being my good thing and we carried that into our marriage, which then gosh, we've only been married for four years, but it's just, it's just been a wild ride because there's just been so much in it. It's just been a wild ride because there's just been so much in it. So now I believe people when they say the first five years are the hardest, and I don't know if that's true.

Speaker 1: 1:03:32

You just say the first year is the hardest. I don't know if they say the first five years is the hardest, but it only took 10 years for Natalie and I to get free and then start walking in newness of life and not living at each other's expense. So who am I? And it's probably because of the years, it's not because I didn't know who I was and she didn't know who she was. So I'm being sarcastic. So you bring that into the marriage. You bring that kind of heaviness a tad. Can I? Were there some expectations going in that you have for Big B?

Speaker 2: 1:04:07

I think my expectations were that things were going to be the same, like I felt taken care of by Brian, and I thought, going into marriage, this is what it's going to be Like. I guess that was my expectation, and we're going to work through things together and we're going to be like that's, I guess that was my expectation and we're gonna work through things together and we're like, yeah, we're gonna go live together that's gonna be our biggest challenge is gonna be just trying to live together.

Speaker 2: 1:04:33

And so when we get married, brian is very adventurous. He just he loves like trying new things, he loves being people. And so when we got married but during dating he was okay with me not doing those things. Like he went to do it, I stayed, it was fine, he would invite me, but it felt like it was okay for me to not go and be boring or whatever. But when we got married, it felt it almost felt like he flipped a switch and now there were expectations of me that I just didn't know. There were like that, were there and I don't even know. The expectations just became like come with me on these things Now. You don't have school to worry about, you graduated. Come with me on these adventurous things Now. You don't have school to worry about, you graduated, come with me on these adventurous things.

Speaker 2: 1:05:26

And if I didn't want to go, I struggled really badly with anxiety at that time, like from the depression and all of that, and going out with a big group of people was anxiety inducing. And going to stay over somewhere with people, like a weekend trips and stuff like that, was like my brain just went on overwhelm. So it was just. It was hard because now he wanted that and I didn't know how to give it to him. I didn't even know that was something that he would want, because when we were dating that wasn't a thing and that that came up, I think, later in our marriage, because we got married in 2020. So middle of 2020. So there was what are we going to do in 2020? Nothing. Nobody did anything in 2020.

Speaker 2: 1:06:08

So we were fine. But in 2021, when things started opening back up and or when he'd be planning with his friends for 2021 for trips and adventures and whatever that started coming back up of oh well, why aren't you going and why can't we go, and that he just it felt like he didn't understand anxiety. I was like I just literally can't go because my brain just doesn't let me, and it's just. It was the thing that like controlled me, and so I thought Brian just doesn't understand anxiety.

Speaker 1: 1:06:37

And so there was just Is it true he might not have understood anxiety, I think.

Speaker 2: 1:06:44

Yeah, yeah, that is true, probably.

Speaker 1: 1:06:48

When did you own the fact that, yeah, I'm dealing with anxiety? Was it like right after the MCAT and into that stuff, like your first couple of years?

Speaker 2: 1:06:58

I think that was so. Right after taking the MCAT, there was some there was definitely depression that I like owned, and I was like this is what I'm going through right now. I think a few months after that there was, I met with a counselor and they talked about anxiety and I was like. Oh, okay, I'm an anxious person, that was just like.

Speaker 1: 1:07:16

And I I immediately just tacked it onto who I am, Like it's just the technical term is hispanic panic, and so, since you're, panic yeah, and you have a hispanic mom and you know what that means, so you just owned it then yeah, I just immediately just tacked it on.

Speaker 2: 1:07:41

It's just hi. My name is young, I have anxiety. It's just hi. My name is Bianca. I have anxiety, it's just.

Speaker 2: 1:07:44

Felt like a lot of people were doing that through the pandemic and maybe probably a lot of people had anxiety, but then it became part of their personalities. Yeah, and I and this was pre pandemic, I think. So in 2019, this was also before we got married my sister ran away from home. I have a little sister. She's four years younger, so she left home unexpectedly and that caused a lot of family upheaval. My mom was really heartbroken and there was a lot of. The whole family just became riled up in multiple different ways and my relationship with my mom at that time wasn't great anyway and all of that just added more stress to it. So I think that added to somebody telling me I have anxiety and then me being like, oh okay, that makes sense, that makes sense.

Speaker 1: 1:08:42

That's just who I am. So, yeah, how was it going in the marriage then through 2021, 2022? What?

Speaker 2: 1:08:50

was happening. We I don't remember very much specifics, but it just we would have. I think Brian described this the other day as like fireworks We'd have like pretty good times and then there was just like nothing described this the other day as like fireworks, where we'd have like pretty good times and then there was just like nothing. Like we just didn't like each other didn't get along, but then we'd have pretty good times and during the pandemic or like 21 22, we were traveling a lot so we got to see pretty cool places together and have fun together and and so we had good high points. There was also some, there was just points.

Speaker 2: 1:09:31

When we came back home from those trips it was hard to get along and there was a lot of.

Speaker 2: 1:09:37

I don't know if it's resentment or something else, but he was very involved in church, something else, but he was very involved in church and that it always made it seem like there was a higher priority than us, than our marriage or me, and so there was a lot of resentment on his involvement with church, but also with him for choosing that and yeah, and then behind all of that, there was also a lot of insecurity about myself and so comparing myself to other people and that led to jealousy, and there was just there's one particular person who was like a recurring thing throughout our relationship and that was always something.

Speaker 2: 1:10:26

That was something we were maybe not struggling with specifically until it came out last year, but there was always something in this under the kids say nowadays, it was just like there were some good parts of it. There was some not good parts of it. So last year okay, wait, yeah. So last year we were looking at moving somewhere and buying a house, so we started talking about that and, for some reason, part of it was the church involvement. Like it felt like Brian was always involved in church and again, that was a priority over us in our marriage and so we felt, okay, let's move away from this area where we can have some time where we work on just our marriage and try to build trust or work on our marriage like just to try to have something that's.

Speaker 1: 1:11:34

We should get along and enjoy our marriage.

Speaker 2: 1:11:37

Yeah, correct. So we thought, okay, let's go check things out. So we went to Spokane to check it out. I don't know why. You can ask Brian, he has a thing with Spokane.

Speaker 1: 1:11:52

He's like Gonzaga or something he's just let's just go to we went to Spokane, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 1:11:59

So we went there just to check out the area and see if we would like it, and at that point I was already listening to the Death Slide podcast. How Hardcore.

Speaker 1: 1:12:12

How'd you hear about the Death Slide podcast?

Speaker 2: 1:12:15

Okay, so, and Brian told me about it Because his friend was on it, joel.

Speaker 1: 1:12:25

Joel.

Speaker 2: 1:12:25

Lutre yes.

Speaker 1: 1:12:27

How do you know, Joel? Just from one of those schools like Southwest or something.

Speaker 2: 1:12:30

Joel is from the area, from the Sacramento area, so at some point we must have met here somewhere. Yeah, so they knew each other from some event or something. So he listened to Joel's's podcast and he was like, wow, this is. I relate to so much of the story like you should totally listen to it because it's got me all over it. And so I started listening to joel's podcast. But I couldn't relate to anything in joel's podcast, so I was like cool.

Speaker 1: 1:13:02

This is like studious young lady who works really hard and doesn't sound like someone who has hyperactivity and attention deficit disorder and dealing with pornography.

Speaker 2: 1:13:13

Correct, correct. So Cool, good for you, jill. So I listened to it in pieces, and I think I listened to it over months, but at some point it is long. There was something about it. Months, but at some point it is long. There was something about it, though, that I was like there's something there. I can't relate to any of this. It's great for Joel, it's great that Brian can relate to this, I just, but there's something about it that's like. That drew me in, and so I was like, okay, let me give this podcast a try. And so I scrolled through to find something that looked interesting, and the first one I listened to after Joel's was Michelle Morrison.

Speaker 1: 1:13:51

That one's wild.

Speaker 2: 1:13:53

Yeah, it is, so I was hooked into it.

Speaker 1: 1:13:58

What hooked you about her episode?

Speaker 2: 1:14:02

Well, if the first part was about the marriage, that's what hooks me into it, because there was a lot of it that I felt like I related to in my marriage with brian, and then I just kept listening to it and the end of it was crazy. If that was the ending, then then the ending of it was crazy, and then I wanted to listen to more. So I listened to wayne's and then I listened to theirs together, and then they kept talking about tyler, and so I listened to wayne's and then I listened to theirs together, and then they kept talking about tyler, and so I was like I gotta go back and look at this tyler guy's story, and so I listened to tyler and then morgan's and theirs together, and then at that point I was six episodes and I was, and I just kept going did it flow?

Speaker 1: 1:14:41

did you feel like you were understood most of what they were saying, what they were saying about scripture? Were you grabbing or was it just like the stories are wild?

Speaker 2: 1:14:50

I think it was mostly the stories and I think there was some part of it that was like that of the scriptures that grabbed my attention and I was like this is different. I haven't heard this before, but I don't think it was something I specifically processed. So, yeah, so I think at that time I probably wasn't as captivated by the biblical aspect of it. But when I joined the Bible studies, oh my goodness, when I joined the Bible studies, I always had this perspective of the Bible is hard to understand and I think I had this perspective of I have to be holy to understand it, which doesn't make sense, because they also say that you become holy by reading.

Speaker 1: 1:15:31

But that is also correct. You do actually have to be set apart and filled with the Holy Spirit to understand the Scripture. But at the same time, the problem is you don't become holy by reading the scripture. That's the thing. That's the separation. So if you think you become holy by reading the scripture, then this isn't going to work, right, you become holy because Jesus Christ is in you and you are in him. That is what actually makes you holy. So your belief in Jesus sets you apart. And then is the only chance, because if you're not reading the scripture through the lens of this is about Jesus. Because what does Jesus say? Right, he says you read the scriptures, you search the scriptures, but they're the ones testifying of me. So if you don't know what the scriptures are testifying of, how are you going to be able to understand any of it?

Speaker 2: 1:16:22

Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense, but yeah. So when I was listening to it I still had that perspective of not, I'm not holy and so I can't understand it, and I just always had a hard time when people were talking about biblical things or Bible study.

Speaker 1: 1:16:40

So which one did you join first?

Speaker 2: 1:16:43

I don't remember. I honestly I think that I once I decided to join I think I just joined like all of them, like I went to all of them in the same week and I did that so you're just listening to the podcast, you're six episodes in and you're like, yeah, I'm gonna go to every bible city that these schools have starting right now.

Speaker 1: 1:17:01

What, what's going on right now?

Speaker 2: 1:17:03

I think it wasn't right away after the six episodes. I think it took a little longer.

Speaker 2: 1:17:08

I listened to more of them okay um, and then I yeah, I don't remember what specifically led me to be like, let me go on the bible study, but it must have been something in the podcast where you guys were talking about the bible and I I just remember being in the bible studies and feel, feeling like this has been in here the whole time. I I haven't read the book cover to cover, but I have read this and I did not get this, what they're saying out of it. But it's right there and it just it. It made it made the scripture come alive in such a way that I have never read it before. I saw like you guys were literally just saying what was in the book and I was like, why has nobody told me this before? I don't, where did it come from? It's been right here the whole time.

Speaker 1: 1:17:59

Do you find that you now that's the only way you can read it by believing it Like and just seeing him like oh, that must be true. If it doesn't feel true or seem true, that it's. The problem is not with the book. The problem is with something that's going on with me. If it says I'm wholly righteous or something like that, Is that now how you look at it?

Speaker 2: 1:18:19

Yeah, yeah, now I can look at it and I can understand it because it's literally right there and I can just say it's there and I'm going to believe it. And when there's things that I don't understand, like you said, I don't look at it as something's wrong with the book, because a few years before, leading up to that, I had this doubt about the Bible and I grew up Christian but I just I could never understand it, and so I had this doubt about the Bible. And, yeah, now I just look at it and it's just, this is the word of God. It has literally changed people's lives. So it has to be the word of God and I will experience it by just believing it like what's on there.

Speaker 1: 1:18:59

Okay, we are going to take a quick break from the episode I'm going to bring on my brother, christian from the Garden State. Christian, how long have you been rocking with the gospel? My friend hey Rich yeah. So I've been rocking with gospel freedom since the year 2022. Yeah, man, what has it done in changing your life?

Speaker 4: 1:19:19

man, seeing this truth, it's helped me reconnect with people who I completely disses myself from due to toxic religion, and also I've been able to see myself in a better way because the love Jesus has for me. And it's just changed like a lot of things, including my work and also my relationship with my family and things like that.

Speaker 1: 1:19:39

So pretty, pretty big. In some ways would you say that the gospel has changed your life.

Speaker 4: 1:19:47

Yes, it has, because I believe if I had not encountered the gospel, I probably would not even maybe be alive today, to be honest. So it's had a huge impact.

Speaker 1: 1:19:58

Man praise God. You've dedicated time, money, energy. You want this message that Christ has actually finished the work to get out to people. Why is that so important to you?

Speaker 4: 1:20:09

It's very important because I don't want people living in the despair that I was living in for the most of my life, where I wouldn't want people to feel so down and condemned about themselves when God loves them so dearly and so much, and the good thing is that it's free. Salvation is free. Let's go, let's go, yes.

Speaker 1: 1:20:31

If you want to partner with Love Reality to get this message out there, every dollar that you donate goes to getting this message out there. You can go to loverealityorg slash give. That's loverealityorg slash give and, like I said, let's get this message out there. This podcast gets downloaded thousands of times and every dollar goes to keeping that happening and we want this message to go out there. We believe if we continue preaching the gospel, we're going to have more stories and we want to get it out there. So loverealityorg slash givechristian. Thanks so much for coming on, my guy. Yes, sir, there's still a ton of stuff that I don't understand about the Bible, but I do know who it's speaking of. I know who it points to. I believe that he lives in me and I live in him. So I'm not afraid about not understanding something that it says, and I am getting more understanding and more understanding, and I'm meditating on the scripture, but I'm not afraid anymore. Do you feel the same way?

Speaker 2: 1:21:40

Yeah, yeah, I used to be afraid of reading the old testament and the book of revelation like I'm not going over there, you know what the full title of the revelation is.

Speaker 1: 1:21:54

It's the revelation of of what of jesus christ?

Speaker 2: 1:21:57

let's go yeah, so yeah, I'm not afraid to read it anymore, and every once in a while I catch some of those thoughts trying to creep in and say you can't understand it. You can't understand it, but I can. I know that it's there and God will help me understand what I need to understand.

Speaker 1: 1:22:18

Absolutely. So you're going to the Bible studies and you're starting to pick up some things. What were some of the things that you were picking up?

Speaker 2: 1:22:28

That's a good question. I just I started seeing that like people's daily life could be changed by the gospel, because up to that point, I think every testimony that I had heard of my life has changed was somebody who was like addicted to drugs and then now isn't and can live for God is what I would hear. But it being in the Bible studies there's so many people who testify of like their daily life and there was a lot of the mental health things that were speaking to me at that time. Oh, I used to be anxious, but I don't say that anymore and if I struggle with the thought, this is what I speak over it and this is what God has done for me to free me from anxiety. And I would listen to these things and I was always curious about it, but there was a lot of.

Speaker 2: 1:23:22

I don't know if it was pride or it was just anxiety was like a part of my identity. I was always curious about it, but there was a lot of. I don't know if it was pride or it was just anxiety was like a part of my identity. I was like I just am an anxious person. This is just what I'm going to have to live with for the rest of my life, and so it was. It was hard for me to understand what they were saying. Free from.

Speaker 1: 1:23:39

Was it offensive that someone could not be anxious anymore? Yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:23:44

I don't know if I ever took offense in the Bible studies, but I remember at some point Brian told me something like that, or he asked me a question. He said do you want to be free from this? And I was like what do you mean? What do you mean? Do I want to be free from this? Of course I don't want to live like I'm an anxious person. Why would you be asking me something like this? I probably needed somebody to just tell me you are, um. But yeah, I just got defensive because it was my identity and it was part of it. That was like, oh, brian just doesn't understand me.

Speaker 1: 1:24:22

Yeah, there was a lot of that was speaking to me, um, I remember you guys popping up in the internet church and it seemed like you had questions right away and you were commenting right away and your camera was on, which is a key for me to zone in on you and ask you a question. Uh, here's a little trick about internet church guys if your camera's on, I'm coming for your life. Just kidding. Leave the cameras on. It's sad when they're on.

Speaker 2: 1:24:53

It is. It is sad. Yeah, I remember I think this was so in this was March, I think when we were in Spokane and I told Brian you should listen to Tyler and Morgan's episodes because they're really powerful, like I. Just I loved those stories and there wasn't. I think there was something in the back of my mind that was like Brian is struggling with something. You know, maybe these stories will help him figure it out, or something like that, but it wasn't like the explicit reason why I showed it to them and, according to Brian, that listening to Tyler's podcast together was just very sent him into a very shame and guilt space, which then led to a month or so later no, it was like two months later after he received freedom. He has his cool story to tell about that.

Speaker 2: 1:25:52

So two months after that, we were talking about buying houses still, and he is I have to tell you things before we try to make this big decision in our life and so he tells me about his addiction and lust and also that my suspicions from this person that has been this recurring person in our marriage, this recurring episode of jealousy I guess I could describe it that way that I wasn't crazy, that it was like actually he was actually acting on that, that it was like actually he was actually acting on that. And so there was that was, yeah, I think that was May last year. And so my response to that and this is I know that God was working and the spirit was working in me already at that time, because the way that I received that wasn't to be defensive or to want to leave or to be angry. My response to it was just to be like I just felt pain for him. I just felt bad that he was going through this painful season that led to all of this. And then the pain came after, the feeling of heaviness, of like betrayal, and all of that just came after.

Speaker 2: 1:27:12

And so this past year of our marriage has been like I was describing it to a friend yesterday it's been really hard because of this new. He confessed or admitted to things that I didn't know about before, and so it's been like it's been challenging to recover from that, but at the same time, it's been like the most awesome year of our marriage at the same time because, as we're dealing with this, god has been showing us so many things about ourselves and about us in our marriage. That has just made our relationship so much better. Those expectations aren't there anymore. The fake love that we had for each other that was really like self-love I need you to love me rather than I love you isn't that anymore. We actually love each other and I can say I love Brian. He's done all these things. That's past, brian, I love Brian and our relationship has not felt that way ever Before marriage, in marriage, and it just feels like a new life, a new reality.

Speaker 1: 1:28:30

You see him for who he is, even if he doesn't see it sometimes. And there's lies that come for you, right, there's lies that come for you and you position him.

Speaker 2: 1:28:41

Maybe you haven't.

Speaker 1: 1:28:41

I'm just guessing. Maybe I know a little bit of it.

Speaker 2: 1:28:44

Definitely, there's definitely been yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:28:48

What do you do when that happens? What's god telling you?

Speaker 2: 1:28:54

god has been teaching me very gradually, certain things, but it's just the more truth that he shows me about me and about my marriage, the more I can just claim those truths. Um, I so this is so. Before we, when we were dating, we had sex before marriage and that was. We carried that shame and that guilt into our marriage and there was a lot of that. A lot of that was tied to my self-worth or, like my, the love that I felt, like I, the way that god has explained it to me is I felt like I needed sex to feel loved and this past year, because of the, the nature of the things that he's admitted and he's talked about, it's been really challenging for me to deal with all of that.

Speaker 2: 1:29:54

And it was just very recently. God told me you don't need to fix any of it because you don't need sex to be loved. You just you can love without that need of something back. I love you completely. There's, you don't need this to feel loved and to be loved and to love back. And that was just one more recent example of something that I, that God has been teaching me, but there's just been so many other things. I don't need to control his behavior. I don't need for our marriage to be good.

Speaker 1: 1:30:21

I think if you did end up controlling his behavior, I think it wouldn't make the marriage good. You would just be loving this person that you had created to act however you wanted, rather than sharing life with a person right.

Speaker 2: 1:30:37

Yeah, exactly, and that's just. That's been such a liberating revelation of I don't have to control this Like this. God will bless our marriage. I just need to. I just need to trust God to do what he's going to do. He's made me new and he's made Brian new, and it's just, I just remind myself to live in that reality and knowing that he's renewed me, he's made me a new person. I'm not defined by the anxiety anymore. I'm not defined by the things that I thought I needed to be loved um did, uh did, having sex before you were married?

Speaker 1: 1:31:14

did it as you're looking back on it? Did it make sex something that it wasn't supposed to be in your mind like? Was there more weight on it?

Speaker 2: 1:31:28

I? I think there was, because there was always yeah, before we got married.

Speaker 1: 1:31:32

There's always so much shame and guilt around it and um, it's hard to transition from shame and guilt when you do something that. Then, when you say these vows that night, it's like oh now, this is this beautiful thing before 24 hours, 24 hours before that, it wasn't that, it was just this thing, and so that's when we do it out of context. It brings this thing with us and unless we know we're forgiven and stand wholly blameless and above reproach and actually see it as the gift that it is and put it in its correct context, then it will still have that on it.

Speaker 2: 1:32:09

Yeah, so I think I have always had a distorted view of what sex is, and having sex before marriage definitely did not help with that. So, coming into marriage, I didn't really know how to define sex. I didn't know what it was in that, in its right place, like like you said, and so I think it just carried a lot more yeah, just carried a lot more weight than maybe it should and so, as you're growing in these things, it sounds like your marriage has, like the gospel has, put the growth in your marriage and like on steroids, like you were growing and growing.

Speaker 1: 1:32:51

And now the gospel comes and shines a light on who you guys actually are. And so if you're not living according to that truth, it's the elephant in the room and you're like, why aren't we? And so the growth happens. It's uncomfortable, like any kind of growth, any kind of it. It doesn't feel good all the time when you're getting pruned. But yeah, in that happening it sounds like you've just seen blessing in that yeah, yeah, there's just there's been so much change.

Speaker 2: 1:33:24

if I think back to what our marriage was like a year ago and what it is now, it's there's a stark difference. It's like we're different people or something. Yeah, it's just been awesome to experience that love.

Speaker 1: 1:33:43

Marriage is good. Marriage is a gift. It's good because it's a gift. It's a gift because it's good. He just gave it to us when we don't know who we are. We take that gift and we step all over it and we don't and we think of it as a thing, as a solution to our problems rather than a gift. Like marriage will never be a solution to your problem. It's not built to be a solution to your problem. It is a gift and it is good that man is not alone and for two to be together it's good. But if you're waiting for it to figure out your life, then we're going to be real sad, right. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:34:29

Yeah, I'm going to take you back and I know you're going to know this feeling that I'm talking about and it might be a sad feeling, but the moment you opened up that MCAT score or you got the email or whatever, that moment where you're like, okay, my life maybe isn't going to be what I thought it was going to be, and all these plans since you're you've been planning for forever. If you got to jump in the DeLorean and you got to go back to 2000 I don't know if it's 18 or 19 and you get to put your arm around Bianca and say, listen, girl. What would you tell that girl? Maybe not the moment after she opened it, because that's a hard moment. Maybe the next day where the beginning of the depression had come in. What would you say to her about who she is?

Speaker 2: 1:35:26

I think I would remind her that this doesn't define her and I think that I knew that back then. There was a lot of that going around at the university about mental health and stuff like that, like your grades don't define you and your career doesn't define you, but there was not ever a definitive. This is what defines you, and I think that I would remind her I actually would remind her this little book that I got in eighth grade that made me feel like I was god's princess, I was god's daughter, and this is why I'm going to cry. Yeah, I would just tell her that whatever I could do to be the best, even if I was the best, it wouldn't matter for God to love me anymore or any less. And yeah, that she's just.

Speaker 2: 1:36:30

Her identity is just you're a princess, you you're a daughter and there's nothing that can take that away. And your father wants to give you good gifts and if this is a redirection, then that that will be a blessing and it's okay for you not to control everything in your life because there's somebody who can do that much better than you can. I actually don't know if Bianca would have liked to hear that back then, but I wish you needed to hear that. Yeah, I would just tell her, remind her, that God is good, god is present, god is a father who wants to give her good things, and this is just a little part of the story that doesn't define her.

Speaker 1: 1:37:14

Yeah, yeah, the kingdom of heaven isn't this idea that you have one thing and if you don't get this, then you're not who you were meant to be. The kingdom of heaven is that goodness and mercy shall follow you the rest of your life and because of that goodness and mercy you get to shine and glorify your father in heaven and people will see your good works and people will see that you are actually flavoring this thing and they'll be like man.

Speaker 1: 1:37:48

God must be really good yes, yes, yes, he is and you know what, bianca, I look at your life and you know what I think. I think god must be really good he is, it is true thanks, thanks for coming on.

Speaker 2: 1:38:12

I appreciate you thanks for having me rich man.

Speaker 1: 1:38:20

I love her heart and I love hearing that she is just owning and accepting what Jesus has done and believing that she is who he says that she is. So if you're in a similar spot where you want to believe that, but it just seems too difficult to believe that this prayer is for you, father, I just stand in the truth of what Jesus has accomplished at the cross, knowing and believing that I am in him and he is in me, and, since that is true, that I am your righteousness, since that is true, that means that your son, jesus, has sanctified me and I'm set apart for good works. It doesn't seem like that sometimes, but I will choose to believe this and I'm set apart for good works. It doesn't seem like that sometimes, but I will choose to believe this rather than any other thing that comes my way in your name.

Speaker 1: 1:39:16

In Jesus' name, I pray Amen. All right, Internet Church is where I ran into Bianca and her husband Brian. I want you guys to go to it. This is what you should do. You should text this number Internet Church Text 808-204-4372. Text Internet Church to that number and we will send you a link when it's time for Internet Church, that's 808-204-4372. Bye.

Death to Life podcast

#171 Love, Marriage, and Mental Health: Bianca’s Story of Redemption

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