Summary: Morgan Huffman's real struggles with control, self-confidence, and pride in her marriage are laid bare. Betrayal, religious differences, and past trauma challenge her relationship with Tyler. Confronting communication issues, addiction, and infidelity, she finds transformation through faith in God.

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TimeStamps:
0:01 - Developing Confidence Through Pain
13:54 - Trauma's Effect on Relationships
30:41 - Navigating Relationship Expectations and Identity
39:33 - Navigating Communication and Addiction in Marriage
48:47 - Intimacy Issues and Addiction in Marriage
58:51 - Overcoming Infidelity and Stubbornness
1:07:15 - Betrayal and Religious Differences in Marriage
1:13:18 - Struggling With Marriage and Faith
1:27:41 - Honest Conversations and Vulnerability
1:33:13 - The Struggle With Belief and Betrayal
1:48:41 - Overcoming Pride and Self-Deception
1:53:08 - Transformation Through Faith and Forgiveness
2:03:27 - Testimony and Transformation

Keywords: Struggles, Battles for control, Self-confidence, Prideful, Betrayal, Religious differences, Past trauma, Communication problems, Addiction, Infidelity, Transformative power of faith, Redemption.

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Speaker 1: 0:36

This is From Death to Life with Richard Young, and I'm Richard Young.

Speaker 2: 0:42

Today's episode of From Death to Life with Richard Young, we get to interview Morgan.

Speaker 3: 0:48

Huffman And Morgan is married to Tyler Morgan and he's married to a young man named Michael Huffman. He's a young man.

Speaker 1: 0:58

he's a young man, he's married to a young man called Michael Huffman. He's a young man, he's married to a young man called Michael Huffman, and Morgan is married to Tyler Morrison, the guy who I had on the last episode, and her story is quite a bit different than Tyler's. Both started in death and both end in life, but how they got there and what they needed to hear are completely different. This testimony is powerful. It's a miracle in and of itself. Like the last episode, it is probably inappropriate for young ears And, with that in mind, we're gonna go ahead and start this episode off. Okay, so, morgan, the first time I feel like I met you, met you like I'd seen you in the ad building, but the first time like we had a conversation. That vividly stands out in my mind is when we were in my truck and we were leaving either coming to or leaving the handshake and you were in a Batgirl costume and I just remember you had it wasn't like an irrational kind of confidence, it was like a totally rational confidence, Like you just seemed so sure of yourself And when I think about it, you might have been 19. You carried yourself with this confidence. That was remarkable And I was just like who is this girl? Who is she? And Tyler had already told me he'd already put me on notice that she's the one bro. So I had both eyes open and I was just thinking what was it that developed this confidence in you? Like, take me back growing up, and I mean I don't think you're gonna deny that you had this confidence, but what gave you this?

Speaker 4: 3:41

I think a lot of what gave me this confidence was probably just my love for it's gonna sound so cliche and so cheesy and I hate that this is about to come out of my mouth but my love for life, like I just love to laugh, i loved people, i loved engaging. So I guess because of that love I was like just confident to talk to people and to maybe like put myself out there. Put myself out there we'll get to that But comfortable with that because it could maybe lead to fun, like it could lead to engagement with others, some good laughs, and I also, early on, had just developed this I'm not gonna care what people think about me sort of attitude. And that was not always the exterior that I put out, it wasn't always the mindset that I was in, but it developed over time.

Speaker 1: 4:50

And that was Why did that have to develop? Because that sounds like something that was developed out of pain.

Speaker 4: 4:58

Facility yeah.

Speaker 1: 5:00

What was that?

Speaker 4: 5:01

about Man. So I moved to Florida, orlando, florida from Dallas, Texas, when I was 10, and people were not very nice to me And I just remembered feeling, like at 10 years old, so sad that people didn't like me, and then people were saying that I was mean and that I had just, yeah, like an unhappy face at all times, like I just had this reputation for not being nice. And so then I just decided like I'm gonna do my very best so that nobody can ever say that about me. I'm gonna go out of my way to be nice, i'm gonna always be smiling, i'm gonna always be approachable, i'm gonna do my best so that people will always like me.

Speaker 1: 5:55

Was it true that you were mean or that you had a sad face?

Speaker 4: 5:59

I didn't feel like it was. I mean, i think I was, no, i think I was 12, 13, 14. I felt pretty nice, but people had just decided this thing about me and so I was gonna do my best to prove everybody wrong. So then came like super, like I was always outgoing, but then it was like over the top. I was like go out of my way to talk to people so they can't develop any ideas about me before I can talk to them, or like just always on, like the defense slash offense. I don't know if you can be both at the same time, but that's kind of what it felt like I was doing.

Speaker 1: 6:37

Was that tiring?

Speaker 4: 6:40

I think probably initially it was, but it also was maybe more my nature because I already was more outgoing And so this was just like, well, we got to do what we got to do. I got to give the people what they want. You know what I mean. So just willing to kind of put on that show pretty much at all times. So yeah, it probably was exhausting. Looking back, i think I just became so used to it and just so accustomed to the energy that it required that it didn't seem exhausting. But now that I am not that way, i can confidently say it's an exhausting way to live. But then I got to high school and there was this boy. He was really cute And we gave each other like our little numbers on our flip phones And he walked me across campus to church because I worked for the youth pastor And he, like tried to hold my hand and I was like, yes, mom, and we get to the front of this youth building where I work And we kissed first, kiss 14. And then we went inside, we kissed again and then he left. I am just like that's it, like that's the end of it. I don't really think about it anymore. We text like a 14, like lol, ttyl, like nothing very deep. And then a couple of weeks later my parents show up at school and I think I'm in trouble for leaving campus. Like they must know, i went to Wendy's with my friend. I had to get that frosty And so I'm nervous to get in trouble for that. But they take me into an office and they're like we know that you had sex with that boy.

Speaker 1: 8:32

Oh mercy.

Speaker 4: 8:33

And I was like what? No, no, no, no, i did go to Wendy's today, but I did not do that. I did not do the thing that you think that I did. I was like I kissed him but I didn't do anything else. I was like 14. And so it turns out that this boy had told a whole bunch of people that we had and they told their moms. Their moms got together and decided that they should tell the youth pastor, and then the youth pastor that I was working for called my parents And then my parents told me. So this is like our community of people talking about this thing that I have no idea I've been accused of, until my parents are telling me And I just remember feeling so devastated that these people would say, like all this stuff about me and no one ever asked me. They had just decided that in their minds like oh yeah, morgan did this thing And then like it's super scandalous and crazy. So I'm going to tell all my other friends until literally the whole entire school was talking about this thing that I had supposedly done And I obviously tried my best to defend myself, but everyone had already sort of made up in their minds that this was the case And because, as much as I tried to tell people that it wasn't true, this boy was saying the opposite, like oh, she's just denying it, like it definitely happened And would like give some crazy details that he had come up within his head to like I don't know, prove it. And so from then on I was like, okay, so it clearly doesn't matter what I do or say, nobody can be trusted. Nobody can be trusted. Nobody can be trusted. I mean, people already think these things about me. So I guess I'm just going to do whatever I want And I'm just not going to care what people say or think, because they'll say and think whatever they want anyways. And so from then on I can confidently say, except for my sister, i did not have any genuine friends, and that was largely, i mean, like I had friends and I was really good at like getting to know people, but not ever really letting people know me. So I could talk with people and hang out with people and know all about their lives, but I always held everyone at an arm's length when it came to me and my business, because I learned very quickly that I had to be super private and very protective of my life, and so that created just this very walled up Morgan. So before I like to describe it as like a pink sparkly bubble. So when I was like in middle school, the pink sparkly bubble was I promise I'm nice, i promise I'm approachable. Like I promise I'm, we can have fun if we're friends. And then in high school that pink sparkly bubble became like I'm fine, stay a little bit away from me, but I'm fine, like everything is going to look good, even when I was like really like severely depressed as a 14 year old. And so, yeah, that kind of developed this Morgan that was going to always be outgoing and engaging and entertaining but was never really going to be honest and genuine with anybody.

Speaker 1: 12:20

When you tell that story, a story from my life just jumps into my head. My parents used to screen every single movie that we watched, and then they would watch it with us and they would fast forward like the parts that we shouldn't see. And we had rented the movie The Mighty Ducks and we were so excited to watch the Mighty Ducks And we, my sister and I, woke up on Sunday morning and we went to my parents room because they slept in on Sunday and we can't sleep in, we're kids. We knocked on the door and I asked my mom if we could watch The Mighty Ducks and I promise you I still to this day, to this day. I thought she said yes. So I ran downstairs and I told my sister I was like we can watch The Mighty Ducks. So we threw it in and we're watching it. And my mom and dad come down the stairs and they were like what are you doing? And I was like you said we could watch this. And my mom was like no, i did not, i would never say that. And she called me a liar. I don't know if she called me a liar. She just like she said I can't trust you because you did this. And obviously it made a big impression on me because I was now untrustworthy. I was now an untrustworthy kid and I like I tried to defend myself and say no, like because I didn't. I didn't feel like I really believe that. She told me I could watch it And my parents love the Lord. God for him. People. They never meant to position me or mark me up, but somehow I felt like maybe I wasn't trustworthy after that. Maybe I was like it hurt me. I feel like for years it hurt me. Just this, this moment of surprise that oh, i was untrustworthy. And I hear your story. What did you make of the community? thinking that you had done this thing.

Speaker 4: 14:41

I mean, when so many people say something about you, you start to wonder like, oh, I honestly feel like I did take on what people were saying about me And, as much as I didn't feel like it was true, I man, it was powerful, Like it really had such a crazy impact on 14 year old Morgan's mind. Because, then you start to think like maybe I am only good for these things and maybe I am only worth as much as my body is worth. They're like yeah, it definitely. And it also made me feel like I would probably never be good enough, because my best was clearly not good enough, because I was in this crazy spot that I never imagined myself being. And so then I started to beat myself. But for even like kissing this guy, even texting him, i began to blame myself for putting myself in that position to even be spoken about like that in the community. Yeah, no, i definitely think that the words that these people spoke about me had a huge impact on the way I saw myself. I realized it.

Speaker 1: 16:04

So your pink, sparkly bubble was not just. It was like a force field of protection around you as well as a facade so that people could see what you wanted them to see. It was kind of a dual threat, like you're not going to see what's really going on and you will never get close, you're not going to touch me again 100%, because if I could be in control, i would never put myself in a spot to be hurt again.

Speaker 4: 16:35

So as long as I could keep people out, i could protect myself. As long as I never really invested so much in the relationships with my friends, i could never be put in a position to be betrayed by them again in a way that I had been my freshman year. So, yeah, it was absolutely a defense mechanism And that really dug some deep roots into the person that I became Just super guarded, super fake. I hate to say it, but yeah, i could never let anybody in because I was scared. I was like y'all hurt me, i'm not going back out there. I'm not going back out there. That my desire was still to be with people. So I had to be guarded enough to do that.

Speaker 1: 17:27

Did you know you were fake? Did you know like? is that like a conscious thought, Like I'm just I'm going to be fake because I can't, or was it just going to that?

Speaker 4: 17:38

I never would have described myself as a fake person because I was as real as I could be. I was like, yeah, as real as the world would allow me to be comfortably because of the past And I didn't. I mean, it became so second nature that I didn't even realize I was putting on a show, because it really just felt like what I had to do. It was just, yeah, I'm going to put this pink sparkle bubble on every day, going to polish her up at night and get ready for the next day. It just became so normal. So, no, I definitely never would have described my and I remember somebody calling me fake and I was like, like I was shocked that somebody would say that. But yeah, no, I was fake.

Speaker 1: 18:27

So I've seen this with kids from divorce Trauma, trauma will do that. Trauma will put the protection up because fool me once, shame on you. I'm not going to get fooled again. Fool me twice, shame on me. If I'm hurt again, it's my fault and I'm not going to let that happen. But then intimacy with people just goes way down, yeah.

Speaker 4: 19:02

Yeah, that's all from marks.

Speaker 1: 19:04

It's all from pain. It's all from trauma. So, as you're moving through high school. How did that go?

Speaker 4: 19:18

Man it was. It got worse, it 100% like freshman year was bad, but then it just got worse because, yeah, there was just like sexual harassment from a different guy and I was so scared and I didn't know what to do with it And I ended up telling my cousin, who was a teacher, and she was like Morgan, i have to tell the principal this stuff. And I was like please don't, i don't want to cause any more issues, i don't want any attention about this thing, please, like I'll just avoid him and the hallways, it'll be fine. But she is legally required by the state of Florida to tell, to report, essentially. And so this student who had been sexually harassing me at school was expelled and he was on the soccer team and they were about to leave for tournament at like Walla, walla or something I don't know. The whole entire team found out that it was me, which I still to the state. I don't know how that happened, but anyways, they were just so mad at me and they were like we just wish you would have been kicked out instead of him And then we could win these games. And they were just so, so mad at me And it was just like another devastating blow like just another. I am literally only worth my body because soon as I stand up for myself, i am made to look like a horrible person who got an innocent boy kicked out of school. So that was bad. And so then I super didn't care what anybody thought about me. And then I was extra reckless, started dating this other guy, which actually was a little miracle because it just kept me in this little like bubble of our relationship and which wasn't great, but it was at least better than like constant harassment of all sorts at school. And then I graduated and I just continue to be this individual that was going to protect myself at all costs. And then I got to Union College and I met the bald eagle, aka to Halemorson, and he was a lot of the things that I liked, right Like also definitely like a people pleaser, very fun, love to laugh, and we just immediately clicked. And people always ask us like how did this happen? Like how did you guys end up together? Like this doesn't make any sense, and we're like we just had a bunch of fun. I don't know, it's actually a little bit of a miracle because we actually are such different people. But yeah, we just immediately hit it off, had a bunch of fun and started dating.

Speaker 1: 22:33

I remember, right before a Vespers, i was talking to him Like Tyler man, this girl, you got to take it slow, bro. Like you got to take it slow, like you can't be all extra man, she's not from around here bro. Like she's not going to fall for the dog and pony show. Like you got to shine it up a little bit. And he was like yeah, yeah, yeah, i'm going to do that, take it slow. And then, like 30 minutes later, at Vespers, he's just like hanging all over you, just like wanting to talk to you, just like following you around, and he's like turning, like give me the thumbs up. Oh my word, like bro. That is like the opposite of the strategy. I did not know that his strategy was super effective, though I know Like super effective.

Speaker 4: 23:21

Which again doesn't make any sense. And it is a miracle, because that was not my style, like don't be clingy, like don't be too much, because then I'll be nervous that you're trying to get me to get to know me too fast. But it worked. The ball legal took your advice and it did the complete opposite and it just ran with that.

Speaker 1: 23:42

So what was it so attractive about him? Like, why were you just drawn? He's just the fun person. Was there something?

Speaker 4: 23:49

Yeah, it was fun. But I also think there was just like this genuine nature about him and his ability to just like. it seemed to like be just a genuine love for people, and what's funny is he was just better at pretending to genuinely like love people than I was. But yeah, i just really liked him and his bald head.

Speaker 1: 24:22

You don't think that I'm interested in what you said. He was better at hiding it. Do you think that it was just natural for him to be out there and to receive love, or do you think that he was well jump into his mind from what you saw back then?

Speaker 4: 24:44

Okay. So it's interesting because my life's goal was to control. My goal was to make sure I was in charge. Tyler's goal was to make sure he was pleasing everyone around him. He wanted to make sure everyone was happy. He wanted to make sure everything was flowing. He wanted to make sure it was all fun. And so he and I partnered up really well because he desperately wanted me to be happy and to like him, because that was his thing. Affirmation, affirmation, affirmation. And I was like, please, no, like a local retriever, like, please, no, like me. And my thing was like you got to prove yourself, like you need to show me that you're worth my love and my trust and my loyalty.

Speaker 1: 25:36

So what's that about? What's that about?

Speaker 4: 25:38

Because I think it was just part of the armor, like I don't know. People turn out to be not super trustworthy and I have gotten my feelings hurt so many times that I'm going to really need you to prove this. But then the tricky thing about it is no one has actually met that criteria ever, because you're always like watching in the corner of your eye for them to mess up. So I was always watching Tyler waiting for a time and he would hurt my feelings.

Speaker 1: 26:10

Better not mess this up, dude You better not No, literally.

Speaker 4: 26:15

And then, as soon as he would, as soon as he would say something crazy, because sometimes he says things about thinking. Like one time we're sitting in the cafeteria with a whole bunch of people and I have no idea what I said, but his response was oh yeah, that's because you give up on things when they're hard. And I was like, oh, i'm never speaking to you again, it's no problem. But what's funny is I did like I did give up on things when they were difficult because that was my defense mechanism.

Speaker 1: 26:49

Oh. So he hit the truth, and the truth did not set you free. The truth was like. The truth was too hard to handle It was too much.

Speaker 4: 26:58

Yeah, 20 year old Morgan was like yeah, you're the worst, i'm never talking to you, i might break up with you over this one. And so I literally like didn't speak to him for three days and he had no idea what he did. He was so upset. He was like please just tell me what I did. And that was even more upsetting that he didn't know this crazy thing that he said to me.

Speaker 1: 27:19

But he was kind of playing into your power hand too.

Speaker 4: 27:22

Oh, richard, yes, Tyler literally always fed into exactly what I wanted, which was control, and into, like the groveling, like, please, no like, just like me, no like, please talk to me, please be my girlfriend again. And I'd be like, oh fine, just like, wait for him to mess up again. It was all my word, like we were literally a match made in hell. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1: 27:48

Wow, but yeah, that's just how a relationship went for two years, when did you decide, like when you were, because I remember that this time, like you, would just cut them off. You just be like, oh, word, oh, is that how you feel? Okay? And then he'd be done about five days and literally going through it. Did you just at some point, like decide, okay, he's had enough torture and I don't, like, i don't feel as bad, i want to feel a little worse. But he's, he's bald and cute, and like when did you decide? like, okay, come on back into the fold.

Speaker 4: 28:31

I feel like it was long enough to meet the like, like it had to be punished, and punishment essentially like I had to have control long enough to make up for however hurt my feelings were. So, if it was a really bad thing that he did, it was going to be several days of no talking because I had to regain control over the situation, because I had in some way lost control when he was mean to me or like somehow lost control when he didn't do exactly what I wanted him to do, and so, yeah, i don't know. Here's the thing. I want to tell you something about the irrational mind of old Morgan. There's no rhyme or reason. Like it doesn't. It doesn't make a lot of sense. I would just be like, yes, i'm not speaking to you and I'm also not going to make eye contact with you, but not only that, i'm going to be super intentional about being nice and engaging with every other person in this room to really just like dig the knife in even more. So it doesn't make sense. It's a control thing, it's a protection, it's a it's not a thing.

Speaker 1: 29:39

You were a hall of famer If that was like a league of doing that. you were on the Mount Rushmore. Sure, sure, sure sure. I remember I don't know at what point you guys broke up, but Tyler would, he wouldn't come. There was like this pride thing where he didn't want to tell me like things weren't going great, but it was super obvious and he'd come up and sit in my office And he'd be like bro, she, she ain't talking to me, dog. And I have this. The old Richard had this thing called machismo And I'm like, bro, you can't let her treat you like that dog, like like that's not how you, that's not how you are in a relationship, bro. And I remember like I did have some kind of relationship wisdom. If it was all Adam, one relationship wisdom. I was just like dude, you've got to stand up for yourself and you can only play the you should break up with someone card once, like if you play it more than that, you're, you're, you're, you're threatening the relationship that you have with your friend. And so I was like he was like getting close to it, and I don't know if this is before or after Africa. It was after it was after Africa.

Speaker 4: 31:12

I was a mess.

Speaker 1: 31:13

So, yeah, you, you went to Africa. When you came back, had anything changed, like talk to us about?

Speaker 4: 31:21

that. So when I got back from my year in Zimbabwe, i, my first second on campus, someone was like, oh, what, tyler's girlfriend? And I was like I was like not really, you got me wrong. I am not Tyler's girlfriend. My name is Morgan. It is really nice to meet you. Like, that is not my title. And then someone even said, oh, pastor, tyler's girlfriend. I was like what, what is this universe I've entered? No, thank you, No, thank you. And so again, like this control and just this, like no, i'm not his girlfriend. He might be my boyfriend, but don't get it twisted, that is not, that is not the relationship, that's not how we're going to go about introducing me. And so, yeah, that was bad. And also I was just, i didn't know what to do when I got back as far as like what my identity was and what I wanted, and I was depressed because I missed everyone out there. And so it created this really, really, really entitled girlfriend, because now Tyler needed to work extra hard to make sure I was happy and he needed to make sure that he always knew what I was thinking. And oh, i don't know.

Speaker 1: 32:42

But he's. He's similar to me in this way that neither he nor I, nor anyone that I know has been able to ever read their girlfriend or wife's mind, when that would have been so helpful.

Speaker 4: 32:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a funny thing that we expect. It is a funny thing When I say we, i just mean me and Natalie. I can, i can only speak for the two of us. Um, but yeah, it was not good. So, yeah, during that time is probably when you and Tyler had that conversation, because I was like extra mean to him during that like six months that I was back.

Speaker 1: 33:18

Yeah, i was. I remember I was in Minnesota already, yeah, yeah, And he told me he's like yeah, we broke up and I was like, okay, bro, like it's not over over, like, but um, why, uh, what happened that? it? okay, like, it just seems like it was like on paper, it really wasn't supposed to work, but there's something that kept pushing you guys together, closer and closer together. Um, what was that? What was it Like? what were you just like? I don't want to put words in your mouth, i'll let you answer.

Speaker 4: 34:00

So we broke up and a large part of that was because I started telling Tyler I don't think we want the same thing in the future. Uh, you're very involved in ministry. You're like super Sabbath, schooly, churchy, and I see that in your future and I know you'll always be involved in ministry and I actively do not want that. I it makes me uncomfortable. It's like a fish bowl Everyone's always watching. You're on this pedestal Like I don't want anything to do with it because of my fear of the community talking about me and which was where were you with God at this point, like what was that going?

Speaker 1: 34:49

How was that going?

Speaker 4: 34:50

Yeah, so what never really went? uh, the crazy thing about me and my relationship with God is I always was like I mean, hey, he died for me and whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. I believe that he died for me, i believe that he loves me, so I feel like we're good here. I feel like, you know, i don't really have to do anything. I feel like I don't have to like ask for forgiveness and all that stuff, like I'm good, i'm not a bad person, and so God was never really like on my radar, like that I was religious and then I was. I identified as being a seven day Adventist, but I never owned a Bible. I think I bought one when I was going to Zimbabwe because I was like this is what a student missionary should have, but other than that, I don't right, But I just, I wasn't.

Speaker 1: 35:42

And so it was. Did God ever come into, like, factoring into my making decisions, like, would you pray?

Speaker 4: 35:52

No, i didn't. I really didn't, because I was like I feel like God's given me a brain And so I can use my brain to think about what I want to do and what decisions to make, and so I'm just going to roll with that.

Speaker 1: 36:08

Man, that's, I think a lot of people are there but they don't admit it like you're admitting it right now, Like it's just a very big reality for a lot of people because they've do you think growing up in it kind of lends itself to that and kind of being that way.

Speaker 4: 36:28

I think, growing up and it lends itself 100%. This is the other big one, this control. Okay, so we like to control everything, from literally like how quickly we get our deliveries. You know what I'm saying. So if it's not prime, i'm probably not going to buy it because I need it now. Like this is my timeline, this is what I want. Like we just want to control our future. So we make these plans and like these dream boards and we just have all these expectations for our own lives and we just love control. And so to think, especially like four years ago, to think about completely giving up control of not just myself but my plans, my future was not happening. Because how could God? I was afraid that he'd make me do something I didn't want to do, or like I was afraid that his plan wouldn't line up with mine and mine seems pretty good, so I was just going to go with that. So, yeah, giving that up is scary.

Speaker 1: 37:34

So then the cognitive dissonance comes. You're the way you are. Heller's going extra with the just Jesus Sabbath school, He's leading out, He's doing music and you're like mm-mm.

Speaker 4: 37:53

No, and I just remember saying to him I'm not going to be the wife that's involved in ministry with you. Like I feel like you need a way to Michelle Morrison. His parents, his dad's a pastor, his mom like plays piano for praise worship leading up to it. She's like very involved And I was like I feel like that's what you want and that's what you need And I am not going to be that person for you because I don't like it. And so we did break up largely because of that, because it seemed like our futures just were not going to align And we were broken up for two months And during that the first month I had peace with it because it was just a really rough relationship leading up to that. But there was just something about Tyler Morrison that I just really felt very drawn to. Now, tyler, and I say we didn't know at the time but we feel pretty strongly that this was just like Holy Spirit you know, because that's really. it doesn't make any sense outside of that And just that he had greater plans for our relationship than we ever could have seen coming. And so, yeah, we got back together and then we got engaged, and then we flip and got married.

Speaker 1: 39:08

Yeah, when you guys got back together, it was the we're getting back together because we're going to get married type thing. It wasn't playing around, it was just like, yeah, we back, we back. And when you got back together, were you like, yep, yeah, this is this, is it. Yeah, which is?

Speaker 4: 39:31

crazy. I was 22. What the heck? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, i just knew I was like, yeah, i want to marry this clown. That's crazy.

Speaker 1: 39:42

Like you guys have seen this. This is crazy. We're going to get married This guy. Yeah, I mean up until I mean, things were good, right, You're heading towards the wedding. You're starting to figure out some strategies to communicate better It seemed like, like you were like what was different that second time around?

Speaker 4: 40:08

I, instead of ignoring him, would just fight with him, and it was not like. It was not a mature, like sit down and I have conversations with each other and like talk it out, but I would just like yell and just get everything out there. And he loved that so much more than me ignoring him for five days, so he would much rather me yell at him than not speak to him at all, and so that was our improvement, which is like me trying to tell him that I was upset when I was upset, instead of ignoring him for however many days. But of course, my control wouldn't let me just have a normal conversation. My control had to go a step further and do the whole like yelling match situation, because I had to let him know that like I'm mad and you better be sorry about it And this is why you need to be sorry. And that was like we had our first like yelling fight like that and Tyler tells me this now. But after that fight he was like we're going to get near, because he was like she's talking to me during our fights.

Speaker 1: 41:14

So yeah, there's a chance.

Speaker 4: 41:17

Exactly For Tyler man. I was a monster.

Speaker 1: 41:22

So okay, when did he tell you about the porn? Was it before or after Africa?

Speaker 4: 41:27

All right. So he told me this is this is a bit of an argument between Tyler and myself, because we remember this very differently. Tyler told me this after I got back from Zimbabwe. He calls me shopping and I'm like what is happening? And he was like okay, i know that Jesus says if you even lust after another woman, you've cheated. And so I just need to confess to you I have had an addiction to porn and so I know I've been cheating on you, but I've got it figured out And I was like what, all right? I mean, he was like I have these blogs on my phone and I have an accountability group, but I'm so sorry, and he's like saying all this stuff, and so I'm just like all right. Well, that's awkward that you think you've been cheating on me this many years, but I guess, since you have it under control, like we should be good here. And so whenever like porn, whatever come up, like the porn kills love, conversation, or like whatever like in my mind I was always like, wow, how lucky am I to be with like the one out of 10 that really beat it, Like that one who could really like overcome this addiction. I don't even need to worry about it anymore. I'm really just like completely unaware to the world of addiction to porn. Honestly, like I had never touched my life, except for my boyfriend, who I misunderstood And I just like had no clue that this was a deep, deep challenge for a lot of people. And so Tyler says that he told me, but never like confessed to having it under control. I vividly remember him saying like it's okay, I figured it out, And then like listed those things that he had said in place, like even like a filter on his phone that somebody knew the password to like he couldn't use GIFs for a long time because this crazy filter And so I was just like, yeah, I mean, he's got locks on place. What can you do? You can't even find it anymore.

Speaker 1: 43:39

So it didn't. It didn't. It doesn't sound like it really messed with your pride or anything like that. It sounds like you were solid there.

Speaker 4: 43:46

Yeah, i was like I mean I think I was upset, because he was so upset I had never heard him cry like that And he just like felt so bad. But I had no idea, like we didn't get into like the years of addiction, we didn't get into the frequency, i thought this was like once or twice time thing And he felt really bad. Like Richard, when I say I had no clue, i legitimately, yeah, i had like no clue, no concept of what he was talking about. And I didn't try to understand, because this is where pride came in, as I was like why would he be looking at porn Like we're dating, like he's fine, i don't know, like that's just a ridiculous thing. He would never do that again, obviously, and so that was always my mindset. And then we got married. Same mindset We're married, like we get to do married people stuff Like what would he be doing that for? That's ridiculous.

Speaker 1: 44:44

While, while what you're saying is completely true, why would you? Yet, it isn't about that.

Speaker 4: 44:55

As it turns out.

Speaker 1: 44:57

It's. If it was that easy, then getting married would solve a pornography addiction.

Speaker 4: 45:04

Right, and I remember Tyler saying that to me after we were married and everything had kind of blown up which I'm sure we're getting to And Tyler said I thought getting married would fix it. And I was like you're a monster for using me as medication, like I was just yeah, i was so yeah, we're gonna do it.

Speaker 1: 45:25

I just saw this email that he he emailed me from Australia in February of 2012. And I was reading it today. And it's this moment where he had left his phone with his parents but had not signed out a Facebook messenger, and so he was wiling out with a few different girls and his mom saw it And so he sends me this email and it's just like I just need to talk to somebody who knows me. And so I've just talked to, to Leif and you. you guys know about what's going on and how you know 95% of my life is good, but this 5% is just and I can't let anybody know. but my mom knows And I emailed him back and I read the email today and it was not helpful at all. I was just like You didn't get a response to it. No, my response was not helpful. It was like yeah, bro, you gotta get these things figured out before you get married, but I'm glad that this happened and keep fighting and you're a great guy. I love you. Like some bro stuff in there, but I didn't have the tools to help him either Sure no, as it turns out, you didn't. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's okay You know I'm eight years older than him and been married and all this stuff, but yeah, he was hurting. And so then you guys are, you're married, You're going into marriage. Oh yeah, what was that like?

Speaker 4: 47:12

So we I was in grad school and so we tried our best to make time for each other. He was recruiting for Union at the time, so he traveled a lot, for the first portion of the year at least, and it was fun. Like I remember thinking and saying to each other why do people say marriage is so hard? You just have to be nice to each other? And we were like totally living in this, yeah, like everything's great in our marriage world, and that was pretty much the theme of the first year Like it was fine, like we were happy to be married, we were happy to have this tiny house together, happy to be sharing our lives in this way. And then it's the summer, so we've been married a year, so we got married in June, so the June after no July, after I'm in Florida And I'm visiting my parents and I'm at the beach and I get a call from Tyler and he is just like so pumped And he was just like, oh, my word, like I just had this phone call. Do you remember, jonathan? And I was like, and he was like, oh, it was within And he was just talking to me and helped me realize what the Bible says And I'm like you're like a sabbatical teacher, you should know what the Bible says. And he was like, well, i'm like free from sin And he's and I don't really remember a lot of what he said, other than that lead up. And then after that I kind of like spaced out of, just like all right. I remember saying like all right, i'm happy for you. And he was like I get to like love you for real now And I just want to be like the husband that I was created to be bloody the bloop. And I just remember thinking like that sounds good for me, cool, i love this conversation for you. And then a couple of weeks later he met me in Florida And a full disclosure. We had a major intimacy issue in our marriage. So, as good as our first year of marriage was, there was also a huge problem that I would never speak to anybody about because it was very embarrassing for me, and that was Tyler, a lot of the time refused to be physically intimate with me, and this was not what I had expected for our marriage, because this was not what, like all my married friends described like oh my gosh, my husband just wants us. And I was all the time I was like, yeah, super same Can barely keep them off of me. But it was not the case. There was always some excuse. There was always like my head hurts, i'm tired, i'm bloated, like whatever, like there was always something.

Speaker 1: 50:07

Usually it doesn't work that way around.

Speaker 4: 50:12

Yeah, you know what I'm saying. And so and I was tempted to think, like what's wrong with me? Like why does every other woman have a very different? oh, in my mind, every other woman have a very different experience than me. Like there must be something wrong with me. And then my pride would say no, no, it's him, girl, don't play herself. Like he clearly has the problem. And so that's kind of how I would talk myself off the cliff. Every time I would start to feel like I wasn't enough. My pride would tell me nah, he's got something. We don't know what it is, but his headache must really be bad. And so, all right, we're in Florida and this issue arises where, like I really hey, we have the beach gone to all door selves. And Tyler was like no, and I remember just thinking like I remember saying to him there's something wrong with you. I don't know what it is, but I'm not gonna be rejected by you ever again. I'm done. Like we're figure it out. And he was like oh sorry, like hello, hello. And the next day he was like I think I figured out what's wrong. I think that I can't be intimate with you because of guilt. And I was like what, what do you have to be guilty about? That doesn't make any sense. And he was like whoa, like my addiction? And I was like you had an addiction. You feel guilty about your past addiction. And he was like no, my current battle with my addiction to pornography. And I was like do you've been watching porn since we've been married? I'm completely shocked. And he was like yeah. And I immediately go back to this conversation two years prior, three years prior, when Tyler tells me that burst of like, if you've even so much as lusted after another woman, you've committed adultery, and he's confessed that to me already. And so now here I am, a year into marriage, feeling like so you, these aren't my words you said, when you look at porn, you're committing adultery, and so you just continue to do that, even though you believe that to be true. So what you're telling me is that you knowingly cheated on me repeatedly. And he was just like learn. And I was just like I want you gone, i don't want to see you, i don't want to hear you like get on off of the speech.

Speaker 1: 52:49

And was it the fact that he thought that he had committed adultery, Or was it and that he did it anyway? Or was it the fact, or did you consider it committing adultery?

Speaker 4: 53:00

I really didn't, And I think that's largely just because I didn't know much about that world. Like I didn't know much about anything about it. Really I didn't even. I don't know how you find it. Like I literally had no concept of that world and what it does to the brain, what it does to relationships. Now I have a pretty good understanding, but at the time I didn't, And so it felt to me super devastating because of his words about it, because of the way he saw his addiction And so, yeah, like that was just super devastating that he feeling that way continued to do it throughout the course of our marriage.

Speaker 1: 53:42

He was doing this thing I can't speak for him completely, but he was overdoing it So you would see how bad he felt about it And maybe, because of how bad he felt, you wouldn't need to pile on more because he's already feeling bad. But it didn't work out like that.

Speaker 4: 54:03

No, That doesn't work with a controlling person, because we're just gonna feed into that.

Speaker 1: 54:09

Mercy.

Speaker 4: 54:10

We're just gonna feed into. Oh you feel bad. Imagine how I must feel Like, imagine how terrible you're making me feel right now. So now, not only are you gonna feel bad for you, now you need to double feel bad because my heart is broken. So we're just gonna feed off of whatever somebody is giving to use that as ammunition. And that's what I did. That's what I did Not knowing. I didn't know any of this at the time. Now I can speak very clearly on it and about how I felt and about how it was operating, but at the time I just thought I was hurt.

Speaker 1: 54:41

And so what was your plan? And you know this happens when you're down there in Florida. At some point you have to come home. What was your plan for the rest of the time down there and at some point getting home, Like when? you talk about it.

Speaker 4: 55:00

Yeah, my parents got to the beach and they were like, where's Tyler? And I was like, oh, he's with Katie And Katie's boyfriend and my mom happens to be best friends with Katie's boyfriend's mom. So she texts her and she says, oh, i hear that Tyler's with you guys, so fun. And she was like no, he's not. And I'm like no, no, he's stuck in my lie right now. And so it was a really tragic for me. And so I told my parents like there's been a bit of an issue. I don't wanna talk about it. If you wanna know what it is, you can ask Tyler and he will tell you. But I am not talking to you guys about this. And what's funny is when I told them there was a problem, they immediately asked me what I did, and this was largely because Tyler was really good at always painting himself as the really sweet guy, always the one who would never hurt anybody, who would never do anything wrong, like the real good boy. And so when all of a sudden Tyler had left the beach condo and I said that there was a problem, it must be something that I did. That was not the case, obviously, but my game plan was just to not speak to Tyler for the week remaining in Florida. I knew that we were flying back together And so I was just gonna see him at the airport. I wasn't gonna drive with him to the airport, he was gonna figure it out, get a ride, and then we were gonna get back to Nebraska and figure it out. And that is pretty much exactly what happened. My mom and dad had no idea what happened until later. My mom called Tyler and that was a really bad conversation. And, yeah, it was. Oh man, i was like, at least we won't have to sit by each other because we're flying on frontier and we didn't buy our seats. We checked in at different times and got put right next to each other. I was like, what are the chances? Oh, i was so upset. I was so upset. And so, yeah, we got back to Lincoln. I had made up my mind. I was not gonna look at him, i was not gonna talk to him, because he had hurt me so deeply And I needed to regain control, reestablish dominance. And we lived in this really awkward space for like 12 hours and then I left the house And I stayed with my sister, who was the only person that I had told and was the only person I was planning on telling, because nobody could know that my marriage was a disaster. This was all part of the Pink Spirky Bubble. Like had to put on whatever kind of show required to maintain appearances, because I did not wanna give anybody any sort of ammunition against me. I did not want the community saying a word about me, because I hated the way that felt. I didn't wanna feel out of control. I didn't wanna feel like I wasn't a good wife or that my husband was a bad husband, even though he was. I didn't want anyone to know that, and so I only told my sister, and that was pretty much how my life was for several weeks. I would stay at somebody else's house, go home, get my stuff, drive to Omaha for school, maybe stay in Omaha, get super trashed, come home the next day and do it all again, all the while not really speaking to Tyler. And if I ever did speak to him, i would just tell him what a monster he was and how he'll never really be different, he'll never really break his addiction.

Speaker 1: 59:04

You really believed that he was gonna be addicted for life.

Speaker 4: 59:09

For life 100%.

Speaker 1: 59:12

How did you come to that conclusion?

Speaker 4: 59:14

Oh yeah, that was a hefty dose of my pride, Because my pride told me if he's capable of hurting you this way, there's no way he's capable of being any different than that. Like, this is just who he is. I had a hard time believing in the ability for people to change kind of at all. if I'm being honest, And that's kind of like a question people ask like is it once a cheater, always a cheater? I was always like yep, if he cheated on you once, he's gonna cheat on you again. But I think-.

Speaker 1: 59:41

Is that just the defensiveness, the protection, yeah?

Speaker 4: 59:45

100%, because the underlying message of that is I'm not gonna put myself in a position to be cheated by him again. So he probably will cheat again. I'm just gonna call it. Right now I can predict it, i'm in control of it, so that if he ever did, i called it. Like if he ever does it again, i knew I was in control, don't worry about me, i'm fine. And so, yeah, that was just the way I saw him.

Speaker 1: 1:00:10

Did you love him anymore?

Speaker 4: 1:00:12

No, no no, no, no, no. And I remember I started going to therapy. So I was like my options are get a divorce or go to therapy or pretend like everything is fine for the rest of my life, but hate. And so I went with the second option. I was like let me just try, because then I can get a divorce with a clean conscience. Like I did my best, i did my part, i tried to forgive, i tried to move on, so all the while kind of like planning that it wasn't gonna work, but I was gonna give it my best shot. So I went to therapy And I think that she did I'm grateful for therapy because it kept me in my marriage. You know what? I mean Like she kept me coping through it, she gave me tactics, she gave me worksheets, she gave me like breathing exercises, like these coping mechanisms to stick it out. But the problem about therapy is it wasn't gonna transform my mind and my heart the way I desperately needed, and so-. Did she position you as you were right and he was wrong, or did she try to position you as, like, open-minded I'm very grateful She totally positioned me to be open-minded because she was a specialist in this sort of situation, specifically with men who are addicted to porn, and yeah, which. I actually didn't know when I picked her. I just picked her because she I don't remember why I liked her face and like I felt like, yeah, i could talk to her. And so she ended up being like I mean sure, she fed into my stuff a little bit to like, build rapport and make me comfortable, but she would call me out on several things. She's like you need to forgive him or you need to not Like this thing, like you, trying to be mean to him to make him feel bad is not doing anything. So you need to choose to forgive him and choose to love him or you need to get out, because this is just, it's not gonna work. And so that was my game plan. I started making eye contact with him again, which was awkward because it felt like I was giving up control And I felt like I was putting myself in a vulnerable spot.

Speaker 1: 1:02:27

Was hurting you. To look him in the eye.

Speaker 4: 1:02:30

For sure There's no good explanation for this, but yes, this is the way that my I'm not clowning on you, i'm just like.

Speaker 1: 1:02:38

When I was talking to Tyler, i was like man. That is impressive when I found out how long you didn't look him in the eye.

Speaker 4: 1:02:46

No, no, no, no, no, no, no Like you were, you're stubborn. Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:02:52

I was like I'm gonna quit her.

Speaker 4: 1:02:54

As it turns out, he was wrong. All those years ago. I did not give up on things when they were hard. No, i was just not gonna. I was not gonna budge, absolutely not. No, no, no, no, no. Like I'm, as it turns out, an all or nothing kind of cat, and so I decided I am not gonna look at him, i'm not gonna talk to him, and so that is what I did for months. And so my therapist was like that's a no, and so I started making eye contact, started like saying cordial things instead of just like you know, like bad word, bad word, you're the worst. I would start saying like did you have a good day? And you would say, yeah, i really did. Like how was there any would like jump at the opportunity to talk to me? And I'd be like if you an inch and you take a mile. All right, And so.

Speaker 1: 1:03:43

I imagine it felt pretty good to be so right When someone is so wrong Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:03:50

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1: 1:03:52

Like you could be on your high horse.

Speaker 4: 1:03:54

Oh yeah, absolutely. It's exactly where I wanted to be, and so a lot. And here's the thing I knew that it was irrational And I knew that.

Speaker 1: 1:04:05

You knew that. That's that's interesting 100%.

Speaker 4: 1:04:08

And so then my fear was, if people know this is all only because of, only because of porn, they would think I was absolutely crazy. And so I remember saying to Tyler, like I just wish you would have had sex with another girl. And he was like, why would you say that? And I was like because then people would side with me, because then they would know, like that I was the right one in the marriage and you were wrong. But because it was quote unquote, only porn, I I knew that it it was not going to be like accepted by society, Like I knew that it was going to be like really, It sounds like you just mentioned.

Speaker 1: 1:04:51

it sounds irrational, but you believed it. Like in your belief, like you were able to say crazy stuff.

Speaker 4: 1:05:03

Yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:05:04

Because you believed with your whole heart He was never going to change. He embarrassed you.

Speaker 4: 1:05:13

Right, and that's the thing. Tyler was in an unfortunate position because he is working with just the man. Just what a lifetime of trauma, right, like of pain, like he's dealing with the culmination of that. So he's dealing with the person who is super prideful, super stubborn, super controlling, all because of the lies I had believed since I was 12 years old. And so he's working with, like, yeah, this person who is at all costs going to protect themselves. And so that is what I was. Tyler hurt me, and so now, guess what? I am going to destroy your. I'm not only going to be like, pretend to be okay, but I'm going to make you feel miserable, because I want you to see that I'm okay, but I want you to know that I hate you and I want your life to be miserable. And so it's unfortunate for Tyler that that is the Morgan he was working with, but it was and it was very horrible And, like you said, it felt really good to be like this, vindicated, like victim.

Speaker 1: 1:06:35

Before we move on to like the 2019, i want you to touch on the phone call with Jaila real quick, because I think that's key for later in the story.

Speaker 4: 1:06:49

So, man, i was at work And I get a text from a four to three number And I was like world. And so I open it in the back room where I'm allowed to have my phone out, and it's this text from a person I don't know And she starts the text with Hey, you don't know me, but your husband and my husband have been talking, and you know my. Your husband's been talking to us about how he's been addicted to porn and how that's impacted your marriage, and so I would just love to talk to you about how my husband's infidelity has actually led to this completely transformed marriage and we've never been happier. And I have told three people up to this point and they're the closest people to me. And it was hard for me to even tell those select people because I don't want to be vulnerable, i don't want people to know what's going on here. Bald Eagle is giving my number to strangers to talk about this, like I don't even know her, i don't know her husband, and they have this information. They quote, unquote have this information on me, because that's how it had always been before. The balance was always. I have this information on this girl, like I've got the T like let me tell you what I heard. And so this is the way I feel about people knowing anything about me in 2019. And so I mean immediately furious, and I text Tyler And I just told him like you never can give my effing number out to anybody ever again. Do you effing understand me? you effing idiot? and I'm just like so angry I'm crying. I have never like cried because of anger before, but it's happening. I had to take an early lunch And he texts me back like okay, i'm really sorry, i shouldn't have done it. And oh, i was so angry and so I had made up in my mind I don't know who these people, oh, and so I respond to her I don't know who you are. I don't feel comfortable discussing this, please don't contact me again. And I don't think she responded No, i don't think so. And then I was. I had this new thing to be angry at Tyler, right, because not only did he have this addiction of porn, but now he's betrayed my trust by telling strangers. And that was like just a. It was almost as bad, because then it was another control, a loss of control. Now somebody outside of my sphere of control has this information and I don't know what they're going to do with it. I don't know who they're going to tell And I can't control it because I don't know them. And so, yeah, i was super, super, super angry about that.

Speaker 1: 1:09:57

When, when you hear Tyler side of the story, obviously it's you know, when you first heard, it was probably six or seven months after the fact, after this whole time period, and you heard what he was going through and what where his heart was. What do you make of all that like?

Speaker 4: 1:10:22

So now I feel and I remember feeling this way shortly after everything changed for me, but I remember feeling and I still do I just feel really bad, like guilty, no, like shameful, no, but I feel bad that I was the way that I was and I feel badly for Tyler that he was very much alone and are very hateful marriage And I completely understand his like desperate desire for this couple to like pour into me and help me, like see the light literally at the end of this tunnel, and so I completely understand. However, it was reckless, he never should have done it. But praise God, you know what I mean It all worked out.

Speaker 1: 1:11:09

So 2019 winter spring, seems like there's something different going on. Winter, spring So he's getting a little too spritzed on this gospel. Seems like this gospel is starting to take over. He's going on these trips. How are you handling that?

Speaker 4: 1:11:32

Man, it made me so angry. Tyler would literally talk about Jesus, identity, Holy Spirit, freedom from sin, like all the buzzwords. He would just bring it up all the time, And when I say all the time, I literally mean at lunch with people. He'd be like oh yeah, this piece is really good. It reminds me about how good the gospel is and how Jesus has set us free from sin. He literally would just incorporate it into anything and everything I can't relate to anything. Yeah, i'm sure you can. And so I remember just saying to him we would leave lunch or leave wherever it was and just be like you have to stop. You've got to read the room. You have to know that people don't want to talk about this as much as you do. It's not interesting. I remember one time we were talking about what celebrities we would be excited to meet and it was this fun little like ooh, i don't want to meet Justin Bieber, i don't really want to meet Michelle Obama, and Tyler was like well, really, at the end of the day, we're all equal and we all carry the same worth and the same blah, blah, blah. And I was like that's not fun, don't play the game, you're going to talk like that. And I just remember being so mad about it, and so that started to be the trend of our marriage. I would tolerate him speaking, roll my eyes the whole time and then yell at him for talking about Jesus too much when it was just the two of us. And then he went to California for his first love reality tour And I remember him FaceTiming me and he wanted me to be Christian and we knew some of the people from Texas, and so I'm like trying to be cordial, and I think Joyce, i think he yeah, he FaceTimed Joyce while speaking to me, and then he came home and was like extra spritzed about Jesus and being free from sin, and I remember thinking like this is actually miserable, because now, not only do I not believe him, but I think he's actually manipulating people under like the guise of Jesus. I think he's like using this transformation thing as a way to convince people that he's a nice and good person, when really he's not, and so it drove me. I really just wanted to shout at people and be like you have no idea who he is and what he's capable of. What's funny, though, is Tyler was literally using who he was and what he was capable of as this like gold mine for the gospel, like look at what he's delivered me from, but in my mind, there's no way that he can actually be different, and so I think he's just like pulling the wool over people's eyes and manipulating them the way he always had. And, yeah, i hated it, and so I specifically structured my school rotations to be out of state, and so I go to Dallas for three months, and it's this beautiful escape, because I get to kind of be on my own for several months, get to live with some friends. Tyler is so happy because he gets to talk very openly about the gospel without me yelling at him and telling him to read the room. And then I came back from this blissful time away from him and I was scared because I was happier than I had been in months while I was away from him. And it's tearing me because I was like, oh, I actually do not want to be in this marriage. Like I am straight up unhappy being with him. And he, like he knows, he knows that I'm not really happy, but he thinks it's better. It's better than it was a year ago, like it's better than when I wasn't making eye contact with him, but actually it was worse because now I hated this new, transformed person. I hated the gospel he was talking about. I hated the Jesus he was claiming to follow because it didn't sound like the Jesus I knew, because the Jesus I knew was fair and surely he wouldn't transform him. That's not fair. He's the one who hurt me Like. If anybody deserves any like happiness, it's me. And so it was really tragic for me because I was home from Dallas and I had one week in between the end of the Dallas rotation and the beginning of my next rotation. So happens that this is the week that Tyler is going to Denver, colorado, to his dad's church like Brighton, colorado, and he's going to do his own version of a love reality tour. And he was like I really love it If you would come, like you couldn't stay with my parents, i will have so much fun. And I'm like, oh my God, i have no way out of this one. I really don't want to go. Like I desperately do not want to go to this thing. I don't want to hear him pretend to be a new person in front of a church full of people. But fine, because I have to keep up appearances. And so I go. And it is even more miserable than I ever could have imagined. I would literally sit in that church unable to even look at Tyler, and my shoulders were just so tight and I would just stare at the ground or distract myself with my adorable niece and nephews And would just like somehow try and escape from this room. And I didn't know what that was at the time, but now I know that it is literally just this like true darkness that I was carrying. That was that hated the light.

Speaker 1: 1:17:19

Yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:17:20

That was the gospel being spoken in a very like, confident way on the stage. I was not my confidence. Tyler was nervous because I was there and he knew that I was waiting for him to slip up and talk about our marriage, because he had explicit instructions to shoot him from the congregation. I know literally and I'm waiting like I don't really know what he's talking about. But I do have a little filter on waiting for him to say my name or to reference our marriage at all, because then I'm out of there.

Speaker 1: 1:17:51

So when he would say something about God loving us or Jesus's love like, did any of it land at all? Any of it be like well, that's a true point that Jesus does love us that way, Or it's like everything just offensive?

Speaker 4: 1:18:09

So what was offensive was that I didn't find it exciting. Like everyone was like, oh, jesus set us free. Like he died for us. And I'd be like, yeah, we know, we've known that for decades. Like since we were children, we've known that Jesus loves us and died for us. Like this is not a revolutionary thing. Like this is not new, this is not even that fun. Like it's old news, if we're being honest. Because I had no concept of what Jesus's blood spilled meant for me today. Like I had no concept of just the life lived through the lens of Jesus's lens, through his love, through his breath. Like I had no concept of what his death and resurrection actually meant. I knew that it meant I was going to get to heaven. I knew that it meant that my sins were forgiven. Other than that, had no idea. And so then, when Tyler would talk about it, i would just be like I remember talking with Azrael and Zach and just being like I don't get it. I really don't know what's so fun and what's so exciting and I don't know why people would ever cry about this. Like what are they saying that I haven't heard 400 times before. So completely nothing landed. Like no, not a single word of it. They were being honest.

Speaker 1: 1:19:35

So you get back from Colorado.

Speaker 4: 1:19:38

Yeah, and I had told Tyler that I didn't think I could stay in the marriage.

Speaker 1: 1:19:43

How did he get all that?

Speaker 4: 1:19:45

Well he. so I had said, like this is not the life I imagined. You're not the husband I imagined. I don't want to do this. This makes me uncomfortable. And he was like what sounds like you don't want to be married to me. And I was quiet because I didn't, and I didn't want to be like no, that's not true. because it was true, like I didn't want to be with him. but I also was fearful of what would happen if I said, okay, yeah, you're right, i'm going to get some papers filed, because then the the gig would be up, then people would know all this stuff that I've been desperately trying to hide for a year and a half. Like then people would know, like I would just be another failed marriage, another statistic, another person who got married too young and too reckless, and people would just be like do it. I knew that marriage wasn't going to last.

Speaker 1: 1:20:35

So in some ways, though, your whole life of being protected from the community at one point here at the end seemed like it may have paid off a tiny bit 100%.

Speaker 4: 1:20:55

You're like I'm not about to be embarrassed. And so I, literally I would call my sister and be like I'm just going to be in a loveless marriage. It is what it is Like I'm just going to be with him and I'm not going to love him and it's fine. And she was like that doesn't seem fine. And I was like it's better than getting a divorce and being embarrassed Like I'm not, i'm not doing it. So, yes, with the enemy, i'm a free. Will you know what I mean? God was like no, i'm going to use this. I'm going to use this crazy pride He's funny, he's funny. He's a funny guy. He really is, he's just funny, so yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:21:27

Cheers. This will be funny later, Morgan. You're not going to get it right now. You're going to be mad right now, but later You're not going to get it.

Speaker 4: 1:21:36

You're not going to get it, man, the praise God. So, yeah, we got back from that. We got back to Lincoln and I was like, ooh, that divorce conversation was scary, i'm not going to address that again.

Speaker 1: 1:21:46

You believe he loved you? Did you believe he loved you?

Speaker 4: 1:21:49

No, no, no, no, no, because my pain. I was seeing him through my pain now And I was identifying him through the thing that he did. So he was an addict now and I was a self-righteous wife. I was so awesome for being the one to stick it out. He is so lucky to have me And, yeah, no, i did not think he genuinely loved me. I thought that he genuinely wanted me to think that he was a good person And so he was going to go like, oh man, and I abused the heck out of that. Oh, i would just get so mad at him for the tiniest thing, knowing that he would just kind of take it and apologize And I would ask him to do all sorts of things for me and get super upset if he wouldn't do it immediately when I asked him to. But I just totally abused his like laid down my life sort of attitude, which was, i'm sure, really fun for him.

Speaker 1: 1:22:57

Man, august was like full court press time. He and I were talking every day, praying every day. And then, when he got back from Colorado, i was waiting for him to call me to tell me about how it went, and he didn't call. So I called him. I'm like, bro, like how did it go?

Speaker 4: 1:23:18

And he was like not good.

Speaker 1: 1:23:22

I was like, because we were so excited that he got to do a love reality tour, he got to speak at it And we're just kind of talking about oh man, how crazy would that be to talk about gospel? Because it's literally like we're foaming at the mouth to speak gospel. I was like, oh, somebody listen to me. And so he got to do it. And then he gets back and he's just like, oh man, so sad, so depressed, and I got off the phone with him. I talked to my mom and I talked to Natalie and I was like they're going to get a divorce And it had set in for me. I was like they're not going to make it because she's not going to be able to hang How can she hang with this? Like he's unruly with this gospel and she's not going to hang.

Speaker 4: 1:24:07

No, i wasn't, I really wasn't. And then, man, the problem was I had tolerated this one love reality tour and I thought I was done And I thought I would just have to tolerate these like coffee shop visits where Tyler would reference Roman six, seven and eight And I would just have to like deal with it. But then something even worse than those things the love reality tour team and friends are coming to Lincoln, my home, and I was so sad because I I mean all the other reasons I've listed already I just like could not stand these people. I couldn't stand the message And at this point I've pieced together in my mind that Eddie and Jayla are the people who texted me several months ago And I can't really tell you how or why that I think that someone referenced their story, their testimony, and it all of a sudden felt way too familiar And I knew exactly who these people were And I knew exactly what their story meant, which was one big fat lie, like there was no way this man was not the cheater anymore And there's no way his wife actually loved herself or knew, like, how much worth she had or she never would have stuck in this crazy marriage. And so I knew these people were going to be in Lincoln with the rest of the crew And I was like shaky about it, like so nervous, so uncomfortable, and just like kind of gearing myself up, like okay, you're just going to go to these meetings and just going to sit in the back and then you'll just leave. You have to go, have to keep up appearances, have to pretend like you care about the message, because it's awkward, because it's your husband And if you don't, then you look like like I don't know the atheist wife. So you just need to go. And that is what I did And it was absolutely miserable. I again felt physically uncomfortable. I would tune out everything around me. It was almost like I couldn't hear it, like I would sit in the room and Jonathan or Tyler would open their mouths to speak and I couldn't get it, like it didn't make any sense to me. It was just like this. It's very weird to explain, but it was like almost a different language And I know that sounds crazy, but it felt like that And so I would just tune it out because it made me uncomfortable, because I didn't understand it and that wasn't a good feeling, because I felt like the outsider And at one point I knew for sure Eddie and Jaila were going to be at one of the meetings, and so I skipped it.

Speaker 1: 1:27:02

That was a one year ago tonight.

Speaker 4: 1:27:05

Tonight, i skipped that one.

Speaker 1: 1:27:08

And that night was wild.

Speaker 4: 1:27:11

Yeah, a Holy Spirit just fell in a really really, really incredible only a Holy Spirit can do it kind of way. And Tyler and Christian came back from that and were just like pumped about what had happened, like healing and the parking lot, and like these people, just like their eyes being open to their true identity and their worth and the fact that they carried the Holy Spirit and they were loved, and they were so pumped about it And I could not have cared less. Yeah, it was just like this incredible thing that I wanted no part of. And I remember Tyler telling me that one of my good friends, erica, had an experience like this and I was angry. I was like what in the world? Stay away from my friends. Like I don't get it. Like don't suck them into this too. This is your thing. I don't know what is so different about what you guys are talking about. It was almost like another one by Sides. I was so upset about it. And the next day, you and I spoke And I remember saying to you that I hated Eddie and Jaila And I would just say, Eddie Jaila was just misguided. I felt sad for her. I'm sad.

Speaker 1: 1:28:36

Yeah. I was so scared to see you. I was so scared because I had seen you, because when you and Tyler broke up that back in the day, like you and I did not communicate for those two months And like I was there for a basketball tournament and it was kind of like your Tyler's friend and we're not supping together if you roll with him. And so like I saw you and I was like because, because you were a savage And I was like, hey, i want to be your friend, even though you're not dating my friend. And then, like, obviously I've been praying for you all month, but the month pre, the month previous, and still like, constantly thinking about what's going on. And then you don't show up Friday night And I'm like like my heart like I lost, like my heart sank, like she's not here. And then the next day, when we're taking Jonathan to the airport, tyler texts us and he's like Morgan is is hearing Jaila's testimony, so we all pray in the car, but I'm still not really believing that it's going to happen. And so then, when I get back from the airport, it seemed like the first thing was I saw you in the kitchen and we were about to go to the park and it's this weird vibe in the room. It's this weird like Tyler's, like you know he's trying to make it happen, like let's make the happy happen. You know we're going to be happy and we're going to go to the park. And I was just like, how are you feeling about this, morgan? But like you were honest with me, for like you had been honest with me before about like other people, like let me tell you how I honestly feel about that person, but you had never been honest with me about yourself. And so when I asked you, i said how do you feel about this? And you were just like it's negative function, like I am not hanging with this. And then do you remember what I asked you?

Speaker 4: 1:30:55

No, what did you ask?

Speaker 1: 1:30:57

I asked. I was like is this because of the porn thing with Tyler? And you were like yes, And I don't know.

Speaker 4: 1:31:07

Wow, I was really honest.

Speaker 1: 1:31:09

And you were like I don't want anybody to know about this. I know you know about it, but I don't want anybody else to know about it. And I was like I don't really know about it. I heard in college that Tyler may have glanced at an open penthouse magazine. That's all I know. But then you, just you just really started opening up. Yeah, We got in the car. Do you remember what conversation took place in the car?

Speaker 4: 1:31:42

I think I was just hating on everybody.

Speaker 1: 1:31:44

No, you actually started talking about your defense mechanisms.

Speaker 4: 1:31:49

Oh, did I Dang? I was just going to full on expose myself, I guess.

Speaker 1: 1:31:54

No, you were just. I think I mean Holy Spirit was working and you were like yeah, i don't want anybody to know anything about me because I don't want them to hurt me. And I said do you believe that people know something about you? that it will hurt? And you were like yeah.

Speaker 4: 1:32:12

I do, i'll check that This all checks out for sure.

Speaker 1: 1:32:15

And then we showed up to wherever we were going and the conversation kind of stopped and everyone you were allowed to find that your hair down and relax, because I mean, do you remember? Do you remember that going from there?

Speaker 4: 1:32:29

Yes, yeah, i think that.

Speaker 1: 1:32:35

Tyler was freaking out when you and I were talking.

Speaker 4: 1:32:38

He was like she's talking.

Speaker 1: 1:32:40

Yeah, because we were talking in the car and then Tyler got in the car and he was like it's happening or I don't want to, i don't want to jinx it, i don't want to mess it up, they're talking. And then when we got to the park he got out of the car, that's right. That's right, And I was like nervously, like I don't, it's like holding a really careful glass. Yeah, Like maybe it'll be okay. I was super nervous but it ended up fine That part of the conversation.

Speaker 4: 1:33:15

And I remember I mean that conversation ended up being like pivotal, really like a huge, because it was like a little tiny tick in the glass You know what I mean Like it wasn't. I wasn't like letting it all out there, I wasn't like completely removing the pink, sparkly bubble, but like the integrity of the glass was being pressed on, You know what. I mean. Like there was a little bit of like okay, okay, like I can, i can stop a little bit.

Speaker 1: 1:33:48

And then you went off on Jonathan. Yeah, eddie, you didn't say anything about me because I was in the car. You were in the car, what?

Speaker 4: 1:34:00

could I do?

Speaker 1: 1:34:01

I was literally behind your back And like but Christian, that's my dog.

Speaker 4: 1:34:05

Yeah, i liked Christian.

Speaker 1: 1:34:07

Which for our listeners, these are all friends of the ministry that I mean Morgan wasn't really vibing with at this point No no, no, no, no, no, no.

Speaker 4: 1:34:18

Yeah, Eddie was a monster and JLo was a sad wife who's just sticking it out. God bless her. And yeah, i just I remember Jonathan and I joke about it now, but I remember saying to you and Tyler I want Jonathan to come for me, like I want him to try, like I want him to talk to me because I am so geared up and ready to end his life. I was just so tired of hearing from him which is crazy because I was literally being used as a weapon for evil, like in that moment And like any sort of thing I could do to shut down his ministry is what I was gonna try and do or say, which is what makes the rest of this an actual miracle because I was geared up and ready to end whatever this was in any way that I could, whether it was just temporarily, long-term. I just needed the message to stop because it was so painful for me. because here's the thing the message about a transformed heart and a renewal of a mind and a new creation and how we have died and resurrected with Jesus Like that completely invalidated my feelings about Tyler. Like it invalidated my feelings that once a cheater, always a cheater. like he's a monster. he'll always be addicted. It completely negated that And I didn't like that.

Speaker 1: 1:35:56

People won't wanna hear you say that.

Speaker 4: 1:35:58

I know, but it's true.

Speaker 1: 1:36:00

I know, but they wanna hold onto their rights, like rights are so important to us.

Speaker 4: 1:36:05

And I get that because I've lived it in a really dark and deep way. But the thing is that is literally holding on to a lie, that's holding on to pain that Jesus paid a hefty price to free us from, which is something that I've been reading in this book that I told you about the hidden half of the gospel, and what this book outlines is like not only has Jesus freed us from our own sin right Like he's freed us from the stuff that we've done But he has also freed us from what people have done to us, and he's done this in the craziest, most miraculous way, because he died a death and he endured something that applies to almost every single one of us. It applies to every single one of our struggles, all of our pain, and you're probably like, well in the world, i was never crucified. What are you talking about? Okay, but I'm sure a lot of people can identify with being betrayed. Jesus was betrayed by his closest friends. I'm sure we can all at some point identify with like people saying things about us that aren't true, like Jesus had to endure people saying horrible things about him that weren't true. I went through that. Some of us can identify with being abused physically. Jesus was abused Like we can identify with, maybe like unfair things happening to us. Like Jesus endured these crazy things that all of humanity has experienced at some level. He died, resurrected and claimed victory over those things. He claimed victory over the pain. He claimed victory over the scars. He claimed victory over the abuse, over the betrayal, over the pride whatever it is He over addiction. He was offered a way to escape his pain hanging on the cross. He was given that vinegar, wine, stuff. And he said he denied it, obviously, Like he overcame everything the sins of us and against us And he gained victory and has extended that to us And so, yeah, it's like this crazy thing that I had. I did not understand at all. Like you could have said that to me a year and a half ago and I'd be like you are absolutely crazy. I don't know what Jesus' experience on the cross has to do with me. Like I don't know what people betraying him has to do with Tyler betraying me. And the thing is, the gospel is the answer to Tyler's sin And it's also the answer to the sins and the pain against me. So that is all something I did not believe in a year and a half ago. So that's all very new information for me and I love it. But okay, so we finished that conversation backtrack a little bit. I'm honest with you. We get to lunch and we celebrate Miley, hearing the Holy Spirit. I remember trying to care about that story because I love Miley And we celebrated Harold and everyone's just so pumped about that and I could not have cared less. It was impossible for me to care any less in that moment than I did. Like everyone's so excited and everyone's crowded around Jonathan like listening to him tell this awesome story And I'm just like you guys are a cult.

Speaker 1: 1:39:56

I've made out my mind, You all like It's not the first time someone said that.

Speaker 4: 1:40:01

As it turns out, it's not. Yeah, and I was just like you guys are all crazy. I'm not buying this. I went out of here, we leave and later that night we're watching some garbage football game, like the Huskers are literally getting absolutely destroyed. I'm relieved because I don't like college football, but it's at least better than talking about Jesus. It's at least better than-.

Speaker 1: 1:40:26

I don't like college football, but I do like it more than talking about Jesus, come listen to my podcast.

Speaker 4: 1:40:33

Man, I was just so relieved to feel like normal, quote, unquote. And man, as I'm sitting there, Tyler goes. hey, Jonathan, which Jonathan was not supposed to be there. He was supposed to fly out And as he's sitting in the airplane, they have to get everyone off of there because of mechanical issues. And he happens to Right, go on go on, holy spirit. Right. And he just so happens to get a ride from Jayla's mom, who happens to be two minutes from the airport, and can pick him up and bring him right back to Lincoln, where I thought I got rid of him. So we're sitting there and Tyler goes hey, jonathan, can we do like one? last night, like can we do one more Bible study? And I'm like, please say no, please say no, please say no. And it almost feels like he's gonna say no because he didn't wanna go to the spot that they were gonna do it. But then Tyler was like okay, what if everybody comes here? And I'm like, please say no. And he was like, yeah, all right, yeah, i have everybody come over here. And I'm like sorry, i can't escape these meetings. And so I'm like coming up with an excuse in my mind, like, oh, i had to have studied here. I had like, surely there's something I have to go leave to do. But everyone comes over and it's the same thing, everyone's singing the same three songs and loving it, and they have these questions. And as I'm sitting there in this space with these Jesus loving people, i'm just thinking, okay, this is the rest of my life. I'm looking at it right now, in Miley and Drew's living room, i am looking at what I will have to put up with for the rest of my marriage if I choose to stay with Tyler. And I physically could not stand it anymore, because listening to this message made my chest tight. It like made me feel uncomfortable. It made my palms so sweaty, like. It was so bizarre, but I would like immediately feel sweaty and clammy. And so I was just like I can't do this. I can't sit in this space and pretend to care about this message and pretend to love a husband that I don't love anymore because he betrayed me at such a deep level. And so in my mind I've decided number one I'm gonna leave this here living room because I can't stand it anymore And I'm leaving Tyler, like I'm gonna tell him tonight we've kind of seen this coming, but I just can't stay with him.

Speaker 1: 1:42:58

Were you sad when you came up with that thought.

Speaker 4: 1:43:01

I think that it was like a relief to like finally be like all right, enough is enough. I've been like just gonna like muscling through it, just gonna like power through it, and now it's finally just gonna like relax and just let go of this marriage that I was fighting to keep together, not because I loved him. I loved my reputation more than I loved Tyler, Like I loved keeping up appearances more than I cared about staying with my husband, and so it was more so letting go of my, the image of my marriage. It was just gonna like cause I had already let go of the marriage. It's like I was already like I didn't love Tyler. I was good, like I was just in that because he paid my bills, if we're being honest, Like I was in school, i was like this is comfortable, this is convenient, and I was having to like let go of the life that I thought I was gonna have And that made me sad And which sounds absolutely so crazy. And as I'm thinking this, i'm looking around, i'm about to leave And this cat, eddie, who I actively cannot stand Like I avoid him at all costs. I leave the room. When he enters, like he just makes me very uncomfortable. He walks over to me and we're like in the middle of this meeting And so I don't think he's coming to talk to me, i think he's gonna walk past me. But then he stops in front of me And I kind of look at him like hey. And he was like hey, can you come help me with something really fast? And I was like okay, whatever, what do I have to lose at this point? And cause It was all over. Yeah, it was all over. And I knew I wasn't gonna have a problem telling him I didn't care to talk to him Because I'd already done that with Tyler for months. I'd already been like no, no, thank you, like I don't want to talk about that. So that was familiar territory. So I go back to this room with him and he closes the door and he's like serious, and I'm like you don't, really, this is weird. Like we don't know each other to have like this very serious conversation. And as we're about to start talking, his wife pops her head in and she's like everything okay. And I was like I don't know. And Eddie was like everything's fine, you need to close the door and leave, please.

Speaker 1: 1:45:22

And I was like okay, am I in trouble?

Speaker 4: 1:45:26

Yeah, yeah, that was for sure. My first thought I'm just like what in the world Did Tyler tell you that I was mean to him And so? he just He did. He was like he's only for months waiting over there. So he looks at me and I'm like, hey, eddie, like like pink, sparkly bubble, and he's not having any of it. And he was just like, yeah, no, how is this stuff landing for you? And what he's referencing is the gospel, like how is this good news landing for you? And as he asks that, i can like feel almost like a heart cry, right, like, almost like just this desire for like something inside of me, to be honest, Like something inside of me to try. And Eddie actually gave us a really a cool word today. He was talking about Moses, right, i don't think I've ever heard of Moses. I'm learning my Bible. I'm learning it. I grew up in it, but I never really knew it. And the burning bush?

Speaker 1: 1:46:32

Early part of the Bible.

Speaker 4: 1:46:33

Yeah, like the OT stuff And how, like when they're describing the writers of the Bible, the burning bush, it says that he was curious And so he walked over to it. And Eddie was just saying like what if he was never curious? Like what if he never would have cared about this burning bush and just would like walk past it? And I mean who knows what God would have done with that. But he was curious and he walked over to it And I mean we know what happens after that. And so he was just saying like it's just incredible how like curiosity and just like what that can mean for somebody. And I think in that moment I was curious, just like all right, it's not landing for me, but what if it could? Like what would I be losing if it did? Or what would I be gaining if it did?

Speaker 1: 1:47:29

And so I say to him it's like the first time that thought has ever come up in your mind, huh.

Speaker 4: 1:47:34

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: 1:47:37

The first time, like we're thinking about from death to life. So the first time that there's even an option. is this curiosity in this back room that you even give it a moment?

Speaker 4: 1:47:49

Just a moment And God just needed my curiosity. He just needed me to open myself up, right, like, just like to welcome him in with a question mark, just like. But at least because he can't do anything with a heart and heart, you know, that's my decision, it is what it is. He's not gonna like, yeah, i was curious And so I, yeah, i just started saying like it's not landing for me. I don't understand it. I think I hate it. I think I hate this message And it's because of my husband. Like I could never believe this stuff, because of what he's done to me and what has happened in our marriage. And I just start sobbing, which is already abnormal because I didn't cry in front of people Like so, especially strangers. So I start to sob And what's even weirder is I throw my arms around this person that I cannot stand, eddie, and I'm just like sobbing into his shoulder And I'm just, I just started saying like I don't know what to do, i'm miserable in my marriage, blah, blah, blah, blah. I don't know why it's not landing, but I think I want it to. And he was like, well, do you know why it's not landing? Like, if you're not believing the truth, there's a lie, like there's something else that you are believing, and I was like what are you talking about? I have no idea. I have no idea what a lie looks like. I don't even know what you're asking me. And he was like, okay, well, holy Spirit's going to tell you. And I was like, all right, heard that one before, but I had never, never, considered the Holy Spirit speaking to me, And so I almost think this isn't going to work And I'm really skeptical. But I'm whatever Like sure, let's pray, he'll tell me. And so we do pray. And Eddie just asks that the Holy Spirit reveal to me what it is that I'm believing instead of the truth. And this word is like painted across my eyes and I hear it very clearly It's just pride. And Eddie was like, oh hey, what word did God give you? And I was like pride, almost with a question, like I don't have that. That's weird. Maybe Holy Spirit got the wrong girl. And he just just like, yeah, and he starts identifying all these deeply rooted things in my life that were the fruit of pride And just like, yeah, all these crazy things in my life that I didn't really recognize as problems, but as he was saying it, i could see so clearly how pride had created this crazy monster of a human And it made so much sense and everything was clicking and the gospel starting to make more sense. As far as like why I didn't understand it and as why I didn't even want it was because my pride told me this is not for me, this is for, like, the Tylers and the eddies of the world, for the people who have messed up and they need a transformed life. I don't even really believe that you can be transformed, but if anybody's gonna need it, it's those kinds of people not recognizing all the while that, like I'm the older brother and the story of the prodigal son, i'm the one who's angry when the younger brothers, the Tylers, who have like, gone out and been reckless and hurt people how they come home and their dad throws them a party. And that's what Tylers life had been up to that point was just like this giant party. He was so happy and he was just like seemingly a different person and would just like never stop celebrating. And that was, and it made me so angry and God just revealed to me that, like I was the older brother and I was angry that Tyler got the celebration went all along. The celebration was mine too, like I also had everything that the younger brother had. I also had everything that Tyler had access to. I just didn't even know I needed it because of my pride.

Speaker 1: 1:52:18

When Eddie's saying this stuff you just said Holy Spirit revealed to you, You just started believing it 100%.

Speaker 4: 1:52:26

Yeah, i was like this makes too much sense, like this, like they're speaking, like Eddie is speaking to a deep, deep, deep part of me that I didn't even really know existed. But as soon as he spoke it, as soon as he put words to it, i was like that's me, like that's absolutely how I've been living and how I've been treating people and the way that I've been seeing people, and so my pride would tell me that somebody was the mistake that they made. So somebody cheated, they were cheated, they were a cheater. If somebody was addicted to something, they were an addict. Like, if somebody lied, they were a liar. And now my pride is telling me that that was just like a defense mechanism that I put up so that nobody could hurt me again. I would put these titles on people, to put them in a box, to never talk to them again, to never mess with them again, so they could never hurt me. And what I realized was that was like just a lie And all these things, all this pain that I was holding on to, was rooted in Satan's desperate, like attempt to keep me from realizing I needed a savior. Like Satan was like shoot, i know what Jesus did for this girl, like I know I believe in him, so like I know what he's capable of, i've seen it, And so I have to do whatever I can to make sure this girl never knows that that is possible for her, and so I'm gonna do that by making her believe she doesn't need whatever God has to offer, that she can take care of her own life, she can plan her own stuff, she can forgive people on her own, she can love people on her own. I don't want her to know that she has access to an overflowing river of love that is Jesus's life lived in her. I don't want her to know that she doesn't need to live in a fence. I don't want her to know that she is wholly and blameless and above approach, because I want her to be miserable. And so I fell into his trap. I didn't believe those things because I didn't. I thought I was good on my own. I thought that I was like eh well, i'm not that bad of a person. My life seems to be pretty good. So, yeah, i don't think I need Jesus.

Speaker 1: 1:54:49

So by the time he gets to the end of his, when he's speaking this life over you? was there a point where you're just like, okay, I do believe this. And because this is a point where old Morgan walked into the room and new Morgan walked out of the room, Yeah. And it sounds like tell me if I'm wrong the big difference was believing what Jesus did.

Speaker 4: 1:55:26

Yeah, Because here's the thing I didn't experience this transformation. I didn't have this life to death. I've liked to death My gosh death to life. Death to life moment because I worked for it or was good enough to earn it, or like prayed enough or asked for forgiveness enough. I experienced this because I believed in what Jesus did for us and has given to us freely Like it, like I literally just believed in what he said has been done, because his word does not return void, that check is going straight to the bank, my friend, and so I yeah, i was just like no, this is true about me, 100%. This is true about me because he has said it directly to me today.

Speaker 1: 1:56:21

So when was the next time you saw Tyler?

Speaker 4: 1:56:24

So Eddie brings Tyler in. I'm sobbing and Tyler's like nervous because he doesn't know if they're happy tears or sad tears And he sits by me and I right, my arms run, hannah, and I'm just like I've hated you so much, like I was never, ever gonna forgive you And I was gonna tell you tonight that I wanted a divorce. And he's like, smiling so big And I was like why do you look like that? Well, how are you so happy right now? And he was like well, because you're telling me all these things with your arms wrapped around me. So I feel like something is different. And I was just like, yeah, like I love Jesus, and I just have this overwhelming like I love him, like he's changed my life, but right here in this room, in this moment, i will never be the same. And I'm looking at Tyler and I'm just like and I love you and like and I forgive you And I know that you don't need to hear that from me, but I do And I was like and I'm sorry that I've just been so mean and so bitter, and I'm like I can see how much baggage I was carrying and how much of that I took out on you. And I'm just sorry because, as I believed in what Jesus has done for me, for all of us, it was literally like a physical weight was removed from my body And I just felt so much lighter and I was just happy, but not like happy because I just went shopping, but just like, just like so joyful, and I just realized how much I had been carrying, but I didn't know it until it was gone. And so Tyler and I just like sat there in that room and he was like, okay, well, i kind of need to go back out there because, like there's a whole bunch of people that are trying to learn. And I was like, okay, well, i'm not going out there because I know I'm different, but I still don't want people to like know stuff about me. Like I don't want to like go out there looking so crazy. I've been sobbing for an hour. And so I'm sitting there in the room alone and I'm just kind of like, well, i don't know what just happened to me, but I'm like so happy. And Eddie comes in Oh no, i think he came in when Tyler was already there and he just said like Tyler.

Speaker 1: 1:58:42

And you saw Tyler, it was a different Tyler.

Speaker 4: 1:58:50

Yeah, yeah. Well, it was like, yeah, because I was seeing him with new eyes and I know that maybe sounds a little cheesy also but I literally no longer saw him as the guy who hurt me, as like the husband that betrayed my trust, but all of a sudden I saw him just like as my husband, like as this person that I loved, because one thing that Pride did, like one of the nastiest things that it did in my life, was it created this heart that kept the record of wrong, and so anytime anybody would hurt me, you better believe I remembered it And I would just like keep track of every little thing that anybody did to me. I would need them to prove themselves worthy, to kind of like build themselves back up, to kind of balance the scale and can't win. No, no. And so I realized what that heart that kept record of wrong had done to our marriage and it had made it so conditional, like I was only as good as the scale was balanced, like if Tyler had offended me in any way, he needed to like make up for it twofold, and if he hadn't, then I was unhappy. And so I just realized that everyone in my life I had never truly loved, because I was always prepared for them to mess up and to hold it over their heads. When now, all of a sudden, i'm able to love not only Tyler but Eddie in the way that only Jesus, like only the supernatural experience with the heavenly father, can provide. And I realized that this forgiveness that I was desperately trying to like grin and bear it through was never going to work. But my control told me it would, because Satan knew that as long as I tried, as long as it was like my effort to forgive, it was never going to really happen because my forgiveness was so conditional. But as soon as I accepted Jesus's forgiveness, i could extend that to every single person around me. And the crazy thing is, jesus's forgiveness reaches to everybody, like even the people who were murdering him. He could hang on the cross, his joints all popping out of place, blood pouring out of his body, and ask for forgiveness on behalf of the people who were doing this to him. Like that is the kind of forgiveness that we as Christians, many Christ's people who carry the Holy Spirit, that is the forgiveness that we carry because of him. And so, yeah, that just hit me so hard in that room And I was just like no, i will never be the same. I love you so much. I don't even know what to do with this. Like it was just such an overwhelming feeling.

Speaker 1: 2:01:48

And you talking about it now. I remember when you came out of the room because Eddie went and got you and said you need to come out.

Speaker 4: 2:01:56

Oh yes, that's right.

Speaker 1: 2:01:59

How did you?

Speaker 4: 2:02:00

Man, i literally panicked. Like Eddie like took my hands and he was like okay, we're going to go out to the other room and yours. And I was like, and I like tried to like pull away from him. And I was like, no, no, no, you don't understand. Like I can't tell people. I don't want to be an example, i don't like, i hate people knowing stuff about me. And he was like old Morgan hated those things. And as he said that, i was just like okay, yeah, like I'm a new person, this is, yeah, you'll be fine, and I'm like trying to talk myself into it. So I step out into this room where everybody is and nobody even really knows what just happened, except for the people on the team and everyone singing super loud, and I just wrap my arms around Tyler and I'm like trying to kind of disappear because I'm so scared about like exposing old Morgan's lies. But as soon as Eddie did like, as soon as he like got everybody's attention, and he was like this is what freedom looks like, and he starts kind of outlining the way that we had been living, how Tyler was addicted to his lust And I was like essentially addicted to my pride, right, like I had been so bitter and so angry and so mean to Tyler. And as he's saying that, it's not like those things lost power over me. But as he's saying it, i'm realizing what a miracle it is and how I never want to stop telling people. And so, just like that first time hearing it out loud, like hearing the death to life so plainly laid out, i was like, oh yeah, no, i have to tell people. And it's not scary that he's saying this out loud, i'm so grateful because I want everyone to know what Jesus has done, like I need them to know about the miracle that he has played in my life. Like this is so insane. And so from then on I've been a little bit like you know how some might call out of control with it, because, yeah, i just Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:04:02

I want to, i think later on, bring you and Tyler together. I don't know to talk about the news that you received a little afterwards, like a few weeks later, and then what your marriage has been like for the last year, but I kind of wanted to wrap this up by asking you that question. So many people would never be able to go on a podcast and be so honest Like I think people get freaked out about the honesty, the transparency, the bluntness. How is it that you're able to do this now when a year ago tonight you were the farthest thing from you, you had all of your walls up all around you, while you were at your house, while you were all out at that church? How is it that you can be so honest and share so much?

Speaker 4: 2:05:12

Yeah, i think what it all boils down to is just like the truth has set me free, and what's true about me is that I am completely identified by what Jesus says about me. So, to reference that book just one more time, it has this really interesting quote, and I can't tell you exactly who said it, but it's just saying how, like forgiveness is not minimizing what has been done to us. It's not excusing it, but it's saying I'm no longer going to be identified by it again. I'm no longer going to allow you to have any sort of control over what I believe about myself. And so for a long time, i believed what everyone else said about me, whether it was when I was 14 years old and I was only worth what I could give with my body, or if it was in the relationship and I was only worth as much as the control that I had over Tyler, where I was only worth as well as I was doing in school. Like I just believed all these lies. I believed the lie that I was only as good as my reputation was, and so I had to protect it at all costs. And so, now that I know what's true about me, that Jesus says that I'm holy and blameless and above reproach and there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, and I am me deep in some Christ Jesus. So that means there's no condemnation for me. And so because of that, i can boldly and just like confidently now, with the true confidence before it was a portrayed and like a desperately like trying to put on the show of confidence Now I can confidently come before people and tell them exactly who I am, because I know exactly who Jesus thinks I am, who he knows I am And so I have no issues. I have no issues with talking about it because it is a miracle, like it's like, oh, man, so I never in my life have identified so much with the woman at the well until recently. And Jesus like comes up to her and he's just like, hey, where's your husband? And she's like, oh, i don't have a husband. Anyways, aren't you a prophet? And so Jesus like keeps turning it back on her, like hey, yeah, no, you've been married six or seven times or however many times it was. And she keeps desperately trying to like bounce the questions back to Jesus because she doesn't want to talk about it. And I was the same way. I would just kind of like deflect and divert any sort of question and just bounce it back to the other person. And then, as soon as Jesus told her to like go and send them, or like you were not identified by those things, like you are a daughter, like all these beautiful, beautiful, beautiful things, she goes back to her village and is like you guys, jesus, son of God, is here And he just outlined everything I've ever done in my life. And it's a miracle because I am, like I'm no longer that person, and so she uses all these things that she desperately wanted to hide and she didn't want to talk about now to proclaim God's goodness. It's like her vessel, it's the way that she's sharing the gospel, and I feel the same exact way, like all these things that I desperately wanted to hide and I didn't want to talk about and I didn't want anybody to know. No, i'm like guys, look at what Jesus has delivered me from Like this is a miracle. You have to hear about how crazy I was. So, yeah, it's just, it's a miracle and I can't stop talking about it because it had nothing to do with me. It had everything to do with who I believed Jesus to be in my life.

Speaker 1: 2:09:10

So at the end of that story that's John four and 39, it says many Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony. So she goes back and because of her testimony all these people in the town believe. She says he told me all that I ever did. So when the Samaritans came to him they asked him to stay with them and he stayed there two days and many more believed because of his word. They said to the woman it is no longer because of what you said that we believe, for we have heard for ourselves And we know that this is indeed the savior of the world And that is so powerful that our testimony will go out and people will believe because of our testimony and that their lives will be transformed. and it won't be because of our testimony anymore, it's because of they have been changed, is because of what they have heard, and there's no greater privilege and man. It's so powerful. So, praise the Lord, praise the Lord. Yeah, all right, thanks.

Speaker 2: 2:10:30

Morgan, yeah, thanks for making it. Thanks for coming on the podcast and we'll talk to you again.

Speaker 1: 2:10:32

Thanks for making it, Thanks for coming on the podcast. Yeah right, Yeah right.

Speaker 4: 2:10:44

Yeah, i guess Yeah, all right Yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:10:51

Thank you for tuning in and listening to this episode of From Death to Life with Richard Young. On our next episode, we're going to have a wrap up of Tyler and Morgan's story And I think we're going to have both of them on together, so that's going to be really cool to hear what their life has been like in freedom and what that has meant for their marriage. So until the next episode, i love you guys and we'll talk to you real soon.

Speaker 3: 2:11:59

Thank you for watching this episode of From Death to Life with Richard Young. Thank you for watching this episode of From Death to Life with Richard Young. Thank you for watching this episode of From Death to Life with Richard Young. Thank you for watching this episode of From Death to Life with Richard Young. Thank you for watching this episode of From Death to Life with Richard Young. Thank you for watching this episode of From Death to Life with Richard Young.

Speaker 2: 2:14:26

Thank you for watching this episode of From Death to Life with Richard Young. Thank you for watching this episode of From Death to Life with Richard Young.

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