Death to Life podcast
#9 Mulenga Breaks Free from Perfectionism: A Journey to Self-Discovery, Forgiveness, and Love
Summary: In this episode, the discussion revolves around the struggles of perfectionism as recounted by the speaker's friend, Mulenga. The conversation delves into the profound impact of perfectionism on personal well-being, particularly during Mulenga's school and college years. Her narrative highlights the roots of her perfectionism, how it affected her education and life balance, and the detrimental influence of the inner critic. The latter part of the episode shifts focus to the redemptive aspects of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, drawing from Mulenga's experience and her connection to gospel truths. This transformative journey demonstrates how embracing one's identity in Christ can liberate from feelings of inadequacy and lead to a life characterized by grace and purpose.
View more resources on our website!
TimeStamps:
0:00 - Podcast Introduction and Perfectionism Discussion
19:56 - Achieving Goals and Perfectionism in Education
33:32 - Impact of Inner Critic and Disappointment
53:55 - The Power of Forgiveness and Love
1:14:18 - Healing and Forgiveness
1:35:07 - Discovering Our True Identity
Keywords: Perfectionism, Self-doubt, Acceptance, Forgiveness, Abundant life, Inner critic, Transformative journey, Gospel truth, Identity in Christ, Freedom from guilt, Life of grace.
Looking for discipleship and fellowship? Join a Circle at lovereality.org/circles
Summary: In this episode, the discussion revolves around the struggles of perfectionism as recounted by the speaker's friend, Mulenga. The conversation delves into the profound impact of perfectionism on personal well-being, particularly during Mulenga's school and college years. Her narrative highlights the roots of her perfectionism, how it affected her education and life balance, and the detrimental influence of the inner critic. The latter part of the episode shifts focus to the redemptive aspects of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, drawing from Mulenga's experience and her connection to gospel truths. This transformative journey demonstrates how embracing one's identity in Christ can liberate from feelings of inadequacy and lead to a life characterized by grace and purpose.
View more resources on our website!
TimeStamps:
0:00 - Podcast Introduction and Perfectionism Discussion
19:56 - Achieving Goals and Perfectionism in Education
33:32 - Impact of Inner Critic and Disappointment
53:55 - The Power of Forgiveness and Love
1:14:18 - Healing and Forgiveness
1:35:07 - Discovering Our True Identity
Keywords: Perfectionism, Self-doubt, Acceptance, Forgiveness, Abundant life, Inner critic, Transformative journey, Gospel truth, Identity in Christ, Freedom from guilt, Life of grace.
Looking for discipleship and fellowship? Join a Circle at lovereality.org/circles
Are we starting the podcast now or? Oh we've been on the podcast. My bruh Yo, welcome to the Deaths Alive podcast. My name is Richard Young and before we jump into the podcast, I wanted to plug the SoarWeGear that I last week I gave a promo code. If you want to find the SoarWeGear, go to Instagram. It's so underscore, r, underscore, we underscore, and it would make the perfect Christmas slash, new Year's gift. And if you want 15% off, the promo code is DTLpodcast. Man, the internet is going nuts over this gear and when I say the internet is going nuts, I mean some key family members of mine purchased some. That's what I mean, so wanted to give a plug for that. Got a lot of great stuff coming up on the podcast and today's episode, man, it is a conversation with a college actually more of like a high school slash college friend of mine named Mulenga, and Mulenga and I we start out the conversation just about our old selves and then we get into a fire gospel sesh and, man, a lot of stuff is covered Shame, we cover shame in this one. Man gotta uncover shame for what it is. So, no, it was an awesome conversation for me to have with her and I know that you'll be blessed to hear this conversation. So let's strap in all aboard, buckle up, appreciate y'all, love y'all. Yo Richard, are you about to do the podcast?
Speaker 6:So why don't you take a look at the podcast right now? We doing it. Yeah, yeah, put off the chains. We bounce yeah Up in the night, look out. Yeah, god give me light.
Speaker 1:No, I had this idea of who you were Uh-huh, but I want to know who you actually were like back then. Give me your background, who you were when you showed up on the scene in college, like what, and what brought you there?
Speaker 2:Hmm, juan, I want to know who you thought I was.
Speaker 1:No see, that's too easy. No, I'm curious. I'll let you know.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you.
Speaker 1:But first I want to know the background.
Speaker 2:Okay, so in college I have. I showed up to college focused you know I was going to go to. First of all it was a miracle that I was able to go to a private college. I was able to go to a private high school, went to academy Platt Valley Academy, like you had said, and that was thankfully able to be funded through the church. And also I worked on the farm and dairy so I was able to subsidize my school fees. But college was a different story because they didn't have our church, didn't have a fund for college students. They just had a fund for high school students. So it was totally going by faith. And I remember, you know, trying to decide. I was accepted at school in Oklahoma and then Union College and I didn't know how I was going to pay for it. So I just remember I started running that summer and when I was running I would pray about that situation and then I didn't know that I would be able to go until August 11, which I think was like a week or two before we were supposed to be at school. So I just remember, you know, being thankful that I was there and I really wanted to honor God and the people that were going to support me during, you know, my college journey, and so I was just focused. I was not going to get my, I was going to get my nursing degree. I knew I was going to be an RN, so I know that other people you know get advice. Like you know, college is where you're going to meet the one that's going to be the best time to do that. But I was really just focused on my BSN degree versus my MRS degree. So I just remember being thankful my relationship with God was good. I just had seen how he'd answered the prayer that I could go to college and my personality has always been the one to where I follow the rules. I was more black than white and I just had an idealistic view on my life, how I wanted to go, and unfortunately also for other people and I dealt with perfectionism and I recognize that in high school, maybe even before then, and I try to rid myself of just when it came to school. Anyway, I didn't really apply it to my personal life, but perfectionism when it came to you know, like achieving that was important to me to be a high achiever.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So how did that manifest itself in high school? How did that reveal itself to you and when it did, how did you feel about it, where you're like oh, this is a good thing, like I don't want to put words in your mouth. How did the perfectionism and that whole thing had you find out about it?
Speaker 2:Well, it's silly, but I would be. I would, let's say, do an assignment. I would go to do my homework let's say it's math or English, whatever and I would look at my writing and I'd be like, oh, I don't like my penmanship, I would redo the whole assignment. So in high school it's just like, man, this is taking a lot of time. So that's when I was like this is ridiculous. I can't spend three hours on homework when everybody's spending an hour and then they get to go to bed early or play. So I just realized how time consuming it was to just redo everything Because it wasn't perfect. So through my schoolwork is when I was like this is ridiculous.
Speaker 1:So how did it manifest itself in the way you treated other people? Were your expectations skewed for other people?
Speaker 2:100%.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what was that like?
Speaker 2:I just expected excellence for myself. So then I projected that on other people. Like I just kind of lived in an ideal world in my head and that didn't always match up with reality, and how it manifested itself was control. I was, I like to be in control. If you're doing something and I don't like it, I'm going to be like hey, stop doing that, even if you're living your life in humane attune. Probably my siblings can attest to that when they're goofing around I'm like hey, stop it. Or if I probably have the best cancel culture in my dating life, if you're trying to get to know me and you did something and I was like you don't make that standard, you're canceled.
Speaker 1:Mercy.
Speaker 2:So that's kind of how, and I'd be frustrated if I At work I try to do the very best that I can and I take the come after you in the next shift and I'm like really we can do better and I might judgmental that's, probably it came out in a judgmental manner.
Speaker 1:So who was God at that time?
Speaker 2:God was, I got a judgment. You know he, you hear, you know, growing up in the church, you hear about that. How, where can they be judged? Investigative judgment you hear how these people were judged in the Bible. They were just. You know, people were instructed to go out and play a whole nation. And then there are times where you hear, you see the other part of God, where he's like, hey, jonah, go tell these people what's going to happen, and if it doesn't happen, this is a judgment that's going to come upon them. So that's that's what I focused on, not not the part where God was merciful in the warnings, but the part where the judgment was coming.
Speaker 1:And how were you doing with God's judgment? Were you doing okay?
Speaker 2:Um, yeah, I feel, I feel like I was. I kind of had a self righteous mindset where, where you know, I have the plank in my eye and then I'm like, oh, but they didn't. They didn't do that, they didn't. The teacher said to be good to the substitute teacher and they're not. They're not being good to the substitute teacher, you know. And so I guess my relationship with what was the question? My relationship with God, how was that? I was just like.
Speaker 1:Who was God at that time? Who was God to me?
Speaker 2:No, I, god, was a God that wanted order, that wanted you know the standards that we are to live by, and if you don't abide by those, then you aren't. I don't know if I know God is love, I guess, but you aren't living up to what you're supposed to live up to. So you, you fail basically.
Speaker 1:I imagine that that felt pretty good to be. So here's you tell me. This is how I'm picturing it in my mind. God is a judgmental God and you're doing solid, so you're being judged according to how you're doing, and that's good, but other people are not doing so well and so you get to be in this position of, well, I'm doing good and you were doing well because you were trying you had discipline you worked hard and everybody could have what you had, if they would just try a little harder. Is that how you felt about it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely 100% Does that feel good yeah, I mean I'm like I'm gonna get standing. I do what I'm supposed to do. You know whether it's with the whether it's at school, whether it's at work, whether it's, you know, with my friends or whatever, but at the same time that's it's impossible to be perfect all the time and that's why it's exhausting, right? Because it's impossible. So the opposite of that was harder, like when I disappoint someone or when I mess up, or when I miss the bar. That was equally devastating and that was probably more devastating than the feeling of doing good, because the inner critic when you are of a perfectionist mindset, is brutal.
Speaker 1:So, the death what it looked like. You were so crazy critical like you probably weren't as critical on to others as you were on yourself. Or help me with that 100%, yeah, 100%.
Speaker 2:So these projections and other people like my ideal for other people. That was just a projection of of how hard I was on myself, and it was. It's a lot easier to give grace to other people than it is to myself.
Speaker 1:So now I'll reveal what I did think about you back then. Okay it, it didn't come across that way. What it came across was what you had mentioned before was that you were disappointed in others, like the bar that you had held so high for us. For us, just like people that were associated with you and I consider myself probably more than more than an acquaintance, but not like, oh yeah, muleng and I are friends- it was like a level in between. It was like you have to understand what I'm saying. Yeah, I do. I still felt diss, that you were disappointed in me and we don't have to go into all of the, the, the wise and housing, but I felt like you had it all together. But you were a little self righteous and your disappointment in me or people around you it was. It was. It made you unapproachable. In some ways it made you like if I don't live up to her standard, so it wasn't. Yeah, it was unapproachable and in no way, knowing you, would you have liked that at all.
Speaker 2:No, no, that makes me sad.
Speaker 1:It makes you sad.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Why? Why is that?
Speaker 2:Well, that that like even though, like, I had those standards for myself and and and my friends and my family, like the reality of that, what that does in our relationship, where it affects our relationship, where I'm viewed as which is what I was self righteous or unapproachable. I didn't think I was, you know, I would say I didn't have that clarity, otherwise I would have had a real issue with that. Like what that's what you view me, know, Like I, you know I, yes, I have these standards because I want the best for my friends, the best for you. But I would in no way want people to view me as unapproachable because I think I view myself as approachable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, the trick is nobody who is self righteous knows that they're self righteous, because they wouldn't be like, yeah, I'm self righteous. If they were, they would probably just be evil. Right right. It's. It's a reason that's deception there's because, if we understand it correctly, jesus sucked with people who were messing up drunkards, prostitutes, tax collectors and he chilled with them but he did not have a lot of time for self righteous people and his heaviest. I don't know what the word is critique, not critique where he was towards people who are self righteous and the public and versus what the? The public and the center, or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah, lord, forgive me from the worst of sinners. And the other guy. It's like oh, look at me, I'm doing pretty good over here.
Speaker 1:So we all don't want that, None of us want that, but in our death we couldn't. We couldn't see it. So, yeah, do you know, was this, this just a natural personality thing from your first birth? How like this perfectionism thing is this? Just you were born into this. Is that how you feel about it?
Speaker 2:Um, I feel like it's kind of my personality, Like I I am, I am a rule follower. I like to follow the rules I am. Well, I have, I have, I should say I used to be a lot more of a follower Now. Now I don't see the world as black and white, you know. I see that there's some gray in this world. So the old me was a world follower, but it's my natural inclination, Like if you say, don't do this, like I, I'm going to want to follow the rules, right, and I am. I guess, in a sense too, it comes with, if I'm honest, it comes with a sense of pride, right, Like if I get recognized for being a good student or being, you know, the child that didn't give our parents a lot of hard times growing up, which I did, but I, you know, it kind of. It kind of feels good like, oh, people, people like me, you know, my teachers like me, my, my coworkers like me, and things like that. So I guess I've never really known any different.
Speaker 1:Did you, did you get value from the, the being the rule follower? That?
Speaker 2:that means something more. Yeah, being a rule follower and being a high achiever, absolutely yeah. That's what I was. I was which, the, the jury's still out, but I was quite the ugly duckling growing up. You know I wasn't the most popular, I was a little awkward. We came to America when I was like eight years old and and that's when from Zambia, from Zambia, from Los Acasambia, and that's when the natural hairstyle wasn't in then and my head was really short and natural and you know I was I kind of I just kind of looked funny and kids were mean, right. So I couldn't be the most popular one, I couldn't be the most the good looking one in the at school, but what I could do is use my, my brain to just kind of lose myself in in at least pleasing the teacher. That's where I got my value.
Speaker 1:So now you're in college, you're, you're not as concerned with the MRS and, if I remember correctly, that was a point of pride. That I wasn't concerned with, MRS that I felt like you were like you girls running around, y'all need to get your stuff together and get your degree because you don't need this and you don't need that. And so I felt and maybe I'm wrong, you can please correct me that you wore it like yeah, I'm here, it's business time.
Speaker 2:Oh for sure, Like I had friends who were about the college life that had a very good balance Well, I shouldn't say a good balance, but they had a balance. I was more unbalanced than they were and you know they were enjoying their college experience. You know, and that would frustrate me, because I would be studying and be working and here they are having a good time and I'm like and and not doing well in their classes. So, yes, that would be like, get your act together. This is your third date this week, you know. So, yes, that's would be an accurate statement.
Speaker 1:Unfortunately, people like you and people like me do not vibe. I was the guy that was like where they're playing basketball, oh well this. Who needs this was whatever I'm studying.
Speaker 2:I'm like Richard. You have a test tomorrow, get a study.
Speaker 1:Oh mercy, I you know what. When people would talk in college like oh man, I studied for this mug for four hours. I don't think I have studied for anything in my life longer than 90 minutes.
Speaker 2:I cannot do it Well that means you're, that means you're intelligent, you, you. There's some of us in this world.
Speaker 1:I'm intelligent enough to get okay grades.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but that's I mean. It's better to have a balance than to lose yourself.
Speaker 1:In one thing I've learned but then there was you on the other side and you were just like you're you're what are you doing? I'm just paying off this money to be here and I'm like, oh okay. And then I was. I was smart, but I hung out with some people who were actually smart, and then one time my buddy, aaron, and I took a class together and this was bad, because he is much smarter than I am, and so I would judge how much I needed to study based on how much he was studying and we were sweet mates and so we're taking the same class and he would. He would have his book on his lap in the chair while playing video games, and I was like he doesn't seem so concerned with this, this test, so it's probably not a big deal. So we both go to the test and I think I I looked at it just pretty much the same amount that he did and he would walk out with like a 91 and I would walk out with a 68 and I'm like what happened? What is going on? So I I probably should have hung out with not as smart people, but, yeah, like people like you and I, and that's why I felt this disappointment for me. It was man I'm, I couldn't be like her if I tried, I couldn't focus if I wanted to, which I didn't really want to, but I couldn't. And so, yeah, there was a there's, there's that weird kind of dynamic. But you, you were going through and you're, you're, you're working hard, and and tell me about that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's just kind of how, like I am blessed to be able to like I'm not. I'm not one of those people. That's what's the word I'm looking for. I don't. I'm not I work hard, right, like there would be people like you who would be studying for like three hours and I might study for five hours and I might just get maybe the same grade. I might get, you know, a grade a little bit lower than they got. And so so I recognize I do need to work hard for for things, and so that's what I think I just got in the habit of. I, I got to work hard to get this, and then there are other things that came, you know, naturally. But I guess, yeah, it's just, and I and I'm, and I still like, I know, I know that you know there are people in the world who are smart and when they encounter a problem and they're like, oh, I guess I might not just be smart enough, I guess I might not just like know enough about that, where there's other people that are used to working hard, they're like well, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna work all night long, do an all night until I get it right, and so that's just kind of.
Speaker 1:And you were the latter. You were the there's nothing going to stop you. You're gonna go through it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if I, if I make a mistake with my friends or with my, you know, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna work on it, I'm gonna keep working. I'm not gonna give up, I'm gonna keep working on it, you know. So that's just.
Speaker 1:So did that bring? Like when you graduated, you had your nursing degree. Did that your strategy, that you feel like it brought the desired result, that you had achieved what you wanted to achieve, and did you feel fulfilled? And all that?
Speaker 2:I did. Yeah, I did, I felt because I set goals for myself and and I was able to accomplish them. But in hindsight, after college, that's when I look back at you know, my friends and just our experience through college. And I had a great college experience. I'm not saying it, it wasn't great, I was just a little unbalanced. That's right, I was a lot unbalanced. But when I look back and and and compare, like what other people's experience were and what my experience were. I was kind of thinking I could have been a lot, a lot more balanced, like it's okay to be an intermerle, it's okay to Nick. I think we had one nursing classmate of mine was on the basketball team in junior nursing and I was just like how do you do that? But it's okay to, you know, be balanced, because my goal was to graduate. What?
Speaker 1:is it Tumwadi?
Speaker 2:Tumwadi summa. What's the middle one?
Speaker 1:Magna.
Speaker 2:Magna. That was my goal and I missed it. I tell you what I didn't I have as as much fun as other people. I missed it by like point, a one-tenth of a point, and I was like I did all that and I still didn't get my goal. So, yeah, and reflection, like it's okay that everybody has a different journey, to be more balanced and to be that B student and maybe get a C in one class, but still, just, you know people, still like, what do you call a nursing student that got a C? A nurse? You know, like, like all these people, they don't say, hey, were you an A plus student? Were you an A student? So that was a sad realization after a graduate. Like man, I could have seriously had had had more fun, gotten to know more people and because you, you only live that once, you know, so kind of miss out on life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, I used to joke about that all the time. I would always say that I can brag that I've never cheated on a test, like that's a fact. But then I would also say, but I also can't brag that I had good grades, like I probably should have looked at somebody's paper or something. No, because I got out of college and I had a. I'm going to tell the truth. I had a 2.9 GPA in college and for the longest I would be like, yeah, I had a 3.0, like that, that one extra point to the B average. But then I asked a great friend of mine, buell, what his great toward college and he's like man I don't know, like C's B's, and I was like yeah mercy. But that's not the whole point of this. But as you moved on in your life and you you started adulting, were there lies that kind of kept creeping back into to the way you were living, or how did it go from then?
Speaker 2:Well, like that inner critic, you know when you get your value from, from people noticing how well you're doing or, like I said, it's worse when it's a reverse and there's disappointment and people are disappointed in you or you're disappointed in yourself. I just noticed which I noticed more after I graduated. I don't know why, I don't know if it's experiencing life and being an adult or but like it would affect my sleep, like if I was disappointed in myself, or I disappointed someone. Like or I made a mistake, like I had, I didn't have peace that's probably the best way to put it is not having peace when you don't. When I didn't meet the bar. So that is when I started noticing like, wow, this is a big thing, when, when it's affecting my sleep and also just physically, I would, if I was stressed out about something or disappointed at night, I would clench my my jaw and then the next day it would be hurting to like the middle of the day and I'm like what is going on. So that's when I was like what is you know? I just started to explore how my body reacted to disappointment in that inner critic.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so what did you make of that? What did you, what did you decide about all that?
Speaker 2:Well, I, I just, of course, I didn't know what was going on, I didn't align you but the no sleep part, but the jaw part of like what is happening. And then I, I was able to recognize what was going on in my life and and it's just having an honest conversation it's like this is not sustainable. You know, you can't be so critical of yourself that that you are not able to have peace in your life.
Speaker 1:So I had some hard questions to ask myself and and I just how long did this last, like how, from when you first started getting stressed out, or the fact that you disappointed someone or some, like something that you didn't read, like how long did it go from just the beginning to full blown? Man, I may and I don't want to put this word on it, but it sounds like you were anxious.
Speaker 2:You know, I don't. I don't think I'm an anxious person. I've had anxious moments like situational anxiety, but it's just it's really like that inner critic and that disappointment and and been like, oh man, what, what are the? What is this person going to going to think of me? Or I made him, you know me. Or let's say, I forgot to document something at work and I can't sleep, and you know, it's just when you miss that bar, I mean some. The worst probably was a month and average was about a week.
Speaker 1:No, but like this is how you were living and you would be okay and then go through it. Was this just? This was just your life.
Speaker 2:Um, yeah.
Speaker 1:So did you think that? Did you? Did it go through your mind like this is a way I should or shouldn't live, or that this is just life and this is what I'm going to have to deal with. This is what I'm, what I have to, this is my cross to bear, or this is I'm going to have to get better strategies, like what did you think about that? In totality of it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I, I definitely thought it needed needed to be addressed like you know, um, because I would talk with some friends and family and they will just be like you know, um. You know, if it was a matter of um, I don't know a mistake with a friendship. They're just be like, hey, you know, they're probably not thinking about it or or talk to them. So I definitely try to figure it out and, um, because I didn't like it.
Speaker 1:You know, what I think is incredible is how people who even Christians, accept stress and anxiety as a part of life that they have to take part in. There's all of these verses and you throw a dead cat and the Bible is going to talk about not having fear and about peace, joy, and the book is like it does not match up with a stressful life. Yet I see so much on social media people not living close to stress-free, but managing stress, Like thinking like this is what they're called to do, because there's no way that life couldn't have no like be stress-free, and it's incredible how we've just said, yeah, this is life where this bedrock and foundational thing that we say we believe in does not match up with that at all, and we don't question it. I just that blows me away because that's what I was living, because my circumstances spoke much louder about my life than what was actually true about my life, and when you don't know what's true, it probably really isn't that. It isn't really true. So, yeah, had you resonate with what I'm saying? Like, was that part of your experience?
Speaker 2:Well, like I said, I wouldn't say that I was an anxious person. It's just that in the moment, it's like a situation when I disappoint somebody, like my self-disappointment would just be almost debilitating where somebody you know, even if somebody said, hey, made a joke, right, or just make a joke, and I'd be like, well, what did they mean by that? And I would stay up ruminating and feel bad about myself. Or even if you had insinuated that I was self-frighteous, I would be like, oh, my goodness, what do you think's that about me? And it would drive me crazy. Because that's like you said, that's the bar. Those are the type of people that Christ didn't really hang out with, right? So I don't want to be associated with the Brutal Vipers and you know the people that are walking around with planks in their eyes. Like I don't want to be associated with that. So like that would bother me so much. Instead of like, instead of, you know, bringing it to God and being like God, I don't want to be like this, like I would just be in this pit of self-wallow, like I wouldn't even want to go to God, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1:Well, that's one of the enemy's greatest tricks is like he says continue to try to be that thing. This is what the enemy says keep trying. Because he knows that with the trying were hamsters in a wheel and eventually we'll tire out and we'll either get off the wheel and just not care about it anymore and just be like it's garbage and like I used to see Christians that would would give up on it, and I just be like, come on, guys, like we can't give up on it, and then I totally get it now because what they were believing it just wasn't good enough. It kept you like. My Christianity was like keep trying, brother, keep trying. And I was getting tired and the failures it was. It was becoming very difficult to climb out of the failures again, right, Because you promised yourself that you weren't going to do it and then you did it, and so you're climbing out of that pit and you're just tired, and so that's that hamster wheel of trying. That's my life. That's the result. What is my life? What's the result of the enemy saying yeah, keep trying, where God is saying it's over. I did everything.
Speaker 2:Take my yoke.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so keep going when I don't know where we're at. You're not anxiety filled, but you're having these moments where there's ups and downs. What was stealing your value or stealing your joy, as you're moving on.
Speaker 2:What was stealing it? Yeah. Oh, I think not having the correct picture of Jesus was probably the theme of everything. I was like, maybe like five years ago I was reading my Bible, and the more you read the Bible, the more for me, the more I recognize the bar of where I should be and where I was lacking. But then one day it just clicked for me. I was like, wow, God loves me.
Speaker 1:How did that come about?
Speaker 2:I don't even remember Richard, I don't remember. But what I do remember is I was overwhelmed, overwhelmed with God's grace and God's love to where I couldn't even like. But it was almost like a shameful reveal and I don't even know if that makes any sense, but I was so overwhelmed with it, god revealing my heart and who I've been and try to be by what I did. And then God saying I've got you and I've covered you with this grace and almost feeling I guess it's undeserved. Right Grace is undeserved and just feeling that undeserved, realizing that we've been given this undeserved grace, was overwhelming that I could just. I just weeped, and every time I thought about it I would just weep of how much God really loves me, and it doesn't matter what I do, what I've done, that despite all that, god still loves me. So the picture of Jesus from before that was you know it was I had to do these things. To add it, I had to, you know, to follow all these rules to have value, to be valued by God. For God to accept me, I had to show that I was trying.
Speaker 1:And there's no way you would have admitted that in a conversation.
Speaker 2:That is, I didn't even know.
Speaker 1:That's not a doctrinal thing. No one would say they believe it.
Speaker 2:No but. I didn't even know, though. I didn't know that that, because I just thought well, this is just how I'm wired. Like you know, this is what the Bible says, this is what you know. The rule is, this is what teacher says, this is how you should be living your life like. What's so hard about following the rule? You know? So I've never been one that well. Like I said, I used to be very black and white. Now I'm a little gray, but I was never the one that my natural inclination is to just follow the rules. If this is what the standard we're called to live on, that's what I'm going to do.
Speaker 1:So, as a Christian, we understand that we're no longer under the law but, you were under not the 613 or the 10, you were under the law of Mulenga and you couldn't have, you weren't meeting up your own standards. And that was heavier than maybe the 613 and the 10, because you know, in some ways you would be like oh yeah, I'm not under those anymore, but I have this pressure. But because I'm not under them, now I have to live this other way. And it reminds me of how people even added to the 600 and I don't know if the number is correct, if it's 613 or 623, if that includes the 10 commandments or if I'm adding but how they added more rules to those to make sure that they would keep those. And then they were holding people under that yoke Because I didn't, I mean, I couldn't like we all want to be better, we all like there's this way that we want to live and we don't understand that Christ has given us the ability to live that way and it is not out of trying, and so we just get stuck spinning our wheels. So you don't remember how this revelation came to you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't, but I just, I remember the season. I remember like I would just, I don't know, I was just overwhelmed and I was. I was just weeping because I was like, wow, like God loves me, like despite, you know, like that verse, while we're, yeah, sinners, god loved us. You know, like in our sin, god loved me, like it doesn't matter what I do, and I just remember just being so thankful, so grateful, but at the same time it broke me.
Speaker 1:So, after it breaks you and this is you say about five years ago, what has been your journey? What has been your journey since then Is that, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2:Well, god's been solely, you know, trying to, trying to reinforce that, because obviously Satan knows what my natural inclination is. So you know, through-.
Speaker 1:Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. What is your natural inclination?
Speaker 2:To be that inner critic, to have that perfectionist, this perfectionistic, idealistic perspective worldview. So when I fall short of that or when I catch myself giving myself or other people a hard time, I just remember the truth of who God is. And but so through listening to Lee Vanden, you know one of his. One of my favorite things that he says is you know, it's not what you know, it's who you know. And Ty Gibson, you know I've listened to a lot of his sermons too and just our identity in who we are and how much God loves us. And then recently, through the Love Reality tour, and that's when it kind of culminated for me where I've kind of was just like flirting with this revelation that I've been getting, like our true identity. You know, it's not what we do, it's who we know. And then the Love Reality, which sounds so simple and so silly, which I'm learning to say, the gospel. I've been reading and seeing the gospel clearly through the vessel of the Love Reality tour and that is that what the Bible says is true, like here. I'm a Christian, I've been a Christian my life, but yet reading my Bible through that light is life changing. You know, if God says that we are co-heirs, if God says that you know, I'm a child of God, if God says that for God, so love the world, that whosoever believes in him, whosoever believes like belief that's all it is. It's belief, you know, would not perish If the thief on the cross can be promised a life in heaven when you know what kind of life he's lived. All he did was believe that the Son of God was up there with him. You know, like why? Why can't I believe that? But what the Bible says is also true for me, like these aren't just fables or stories, these are. These are true, like if we believed, I would even say like the radical things that are in the Bible, what the Bible says about our identity in Christ and his love and his grace and its life changing. And it's just believing it.
Speaker 1:So something that you said earlier that many people have a hard time with, and that is to think that their natural heart or their natural inclination, is not what it used to be. So when you said my natural inclination and then you said something that was kind of negative to look at. But that isn't your natural inclination, because when it happens you don't even like it. It it's going against what your natural inclination is. Your natural inclination is your love your heart is new you're a new creature. You're a new creation, and so there's this lie that when we believe something about us, that is true but that it's good and we admit it, that that's not humility. And we should believe that we are broken human beings and we are like there's this, there's that idea. And. I don't know about every group, but the group I associate with you do as well. Like this is something difficult to admit that their heart is actually good, and because they don't believe that their heart is actually good, everybody who does is arrogant, proud, and so your heart is good. Your natural inclination is to give of yourself and to love because you have a new mind you have a new heart. It's filled with the Holy Spirit. And when you don't do that, you don't like it, and that's why we know that we're slaves to righteousness, because when we are acting righteously, we love it. And when we're not, we hate it. If it's true, it's very true If you, if you actually did evil and we're like cool, like that would show you're a slave to sin.
Speaker 2:That's true, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so I don't mean to like push back and say, well, moulanga, but your heart is awesome. It couldn't be. It's a righteous heart, it's a new heart. How could it be? How could it be better? It can't be. You can't have more spirit than you do. So, as you've been realizing and seeing the gospel and what you said, you've been believing the Bible, as it's true. How has that changed things in your day-to-day, in your life? How has it changed the way you look at, or you look at, old Moulinca?
Speaker 2:Well, I know that it's changed my relationships. You know, I don't I try not to, which I've always. I've always been like an accepting person, like I have always I have. I sound like I'm sounding crazy here, but I know that I know myself, like God knows my heart, I know my heart and I do know that it's good and I guess when I say something negative it's because of that critic. You know, it's just like oh, but you, you thought that about somebody, or you said that to somebody, or but how it's changed my, it's just how I view people. Like I don't view, I don't know, I don't view people's mistakes or my mistakes like I did before. You know, I don't, you know they're. They're people that make bad decisions, people that and I make a bad decision, but that doesn't mean that I'm a bad person or that they're a bad person. That just means that they made a bad decision. So, in light of that, I I found that, because I've been giving grace and I, I recognize that and I view God in the light of that, he is love like I, god is love and and therefore, because he loved me and because he's gracious to me, I am more apt to extend that love to other people and not be as critical. Now I still have standards, but that criticalness, that sharp criticalness, that cancel aspect of it is is in light of God's, god's love and wisdom.
Speaker 1:You say you still have standards.
Speaker 2:I do, yeah, I, when it comes to, I guess I don't project those standards on other people, right, like, if, if, if I feel like something should be done a certain way, that doesn't mean that I need to project that onto you, because the like the old adage goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat. So if somebody's doing something like, oh, it could be done, I would do it differently. I just I, I don't let it get to me, I don't think that they're doing it wrong, I'm just like, oh, that's, that's different. And also, if I, if somebody makes a mistake or I make a mistake, I don't wallow in that cycle of of anxiety and stress, and and I am able to to say that that that doesn't define who they are. That doesn't define who I am. I just need to make it right or do it different next time.
Speaker 1:There's this belief that the worst we feel about ourselves means the more apologetic we are or the more sincere we are and so we judge. We judge if we're really forgiven based on how badly we wanted to apologize and how bad we felt about it, which is a complete lie. Like our. the level that we feel bad determines nothing on whether God is going to forgive us or not, Because the fact is. He has already forgiven us once for all time. We as Christians, and even people who don't believe they, are forgiven they just they're not living in the reality of their forgiveness. But we have been forgiven, and it's not because of any of our actions, not because of how bad we felt not because of even even our asking for forgiveness is not the reason we're forgiven. The reason we're forgiven is because he forgave us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like he said, father forgive them, but they know not what they do, you know?
Speaker 1:They were forgiven, yeah and so. But we still at some points believe this lie that the worst we feel means something to God. And it just doesn't. And so a couple months ago I had done something stupid and a buddy of mine was on the phone with me and he was just like hey, rich, when are we going to stop feeling bad and just accept forgiveness? He's like, yeah, there can be like Godly sorrow in the moment. And then we confess our mind has changed, we repent, our mind is turned. When are we going to? After that, like, when are we going to stop feeling bad? And I was like we should probably stop feeling bad soon. And he's like, yeah, yeah, because it doesn't add any years to our life to continue to feel bad, and so that's something that, like, in my freedom, I have to continue to learn. Because the sorrow for our sin does nothing like. The gravity and weight of our sin is so huge that us feeling bad for it isn't going to do any help to like bridge with it Like he died. Okay, it was right, bad enough, he had to die. Does that make sense? What do you think about that?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, it's absolutely makes sense, and that's where I feel the peace comes right. So where, before you're like oh, you know I made a mistake and and you do, you recognize it in the moment and you try to make a right, you're apologized, but but then, knowing and accepting that you are forgiven, it brings that peace where you were. You were, you just bury it, you know you, you address it and then, and then you move on.
Speaker 1:And I think we believe these lies. And we don't move on. Because, we think God is as petty as we used to be. And so like for example, in my old life, in my old marriage, we wouldn't forgive each other If we didn't. We didn't feel like the other person felt bad enough. Like, I'd be like. Well, I still don't think you. I don't think you understand how bad you hurt me, which means if you don't feel bad, then you don't understand how bad you made me feel. And if you did understand how bad you made me feel, you'd be feeling a lot worse and I would be able to tell how bad you feel and because of that then I would understand that you get it and so I'm able to forgive you. We only, I only, forget, for game. If there was enough. Oh, I'm sorry, richard, for this tragedy that I've placed upon your life, right, please forgive me. And then I'm sitting up on my high horse and then, yes, now I can grant forgiveness because you have experienced enough pain. And we, what is that? We put that on God. What were you gonna say?
Speaker 2:I was gonna say so now. What does that look like for you now? Like are you because?
Speaker 1:now it's for now it's forgiven for anything Like there's no need to ask for forgiveness, like my wife and kids don't need to ask me for forgiveness so that I forgive them Because I didn't ask forgiveness before God forgave me. Remember the version which is talking about? He came while I was still a screw up and he forgave me and cleansed me while I was still a screw up. And we're over here waiting till somebody's not a screw up so that they know how bad they hurt us. Then we can get on the same page. Okay, yes, I forgive you, but because I've been loved by God, I can't do that to somebody anymore. So whether or not they ask for forgiveness or the level of pain that they feel has nothing to do with me forgiving them, because it has nothing to do with God forgiving me. And I'm not saying this like, oh, I'm so good now and now I'm able to do this because no, it's because I was a screw up and he cleansed me and forgave me before I asked, and that I've been loved and so, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker 2:Well, just like just the, you know, we throw around the world love, we love these shoes, we love ice cream, we love, you know, I don't know, we love mailman or whatever, and we just we have diluted to what that word really means. Because the truth of the matter is like you were talking about in this scenario, like shame, which which is really what you want. What you wanted or what we want from others when they hurt us? We want to shame them, oh man. In that moment. But, you know, shame truly doesn't bring about change, it's. It's. It's an outward reaction to something that's not occurring inwardly. It's not an intrinsic motivator, right, but love is an intrinsic motivator and I think, like once, once I discovered that, like, like, how much God loves me and how much God's grace abounds and this grace is new every morning. You know, I screwed up a minute ago, yesterday. You know, some days are just off days, but then you read the Bible and it says is grace is new every morning, you know, and and that love is, is the greatest motivator to not only love others more, you know, but also love myself when I am my worst critic, or or just to you know, love changes. Love is what changes. Shame doesn't change people, love is what changes people.
Speaker 1:It'll. It'll change people into resentment and they'll resent you. So let's, let's talk about.
Speaker 2:let's talk about shame.
Speaker 1:Go ahead when are you going to say?
Speaker 2:I'm trying to understand your statement, loving shaming somebody will turn them into resenting you.
Speaker 1:Got it, it will do the opposite of what your goal is. So what shame pretty much is, is you saying to somebody you're still the thing you did to mess up, and so my wife's getting water in the kitchen. Shame is saying you're still that person. And I remember in fights with my wife, I didn't. Naturally, I didn't actually want her to say like I messed up, I did a little bit. But if my old self and I can tell you this, because this guy's dead I that was the tip of the iceberg. I wanted her to say I'm a mess up and this is who I am, so that, in my twisted way of thinking, if she understood that about herself, then she could work on herself and work to change herself. And this sounds, this sounds horrible, and this is the stuff that we believe, that we don't say out loud. I'm saying it out loud. I wanted her to admit that she was a mess up. So if you admit it, then you could start to work on not being a mess up, and then my life would be better. Oh mercy, this is lies from hell. And so that's what I wanted. And so my shaming her was in my mind. I thought that would actually get her to work harder to change so that our lives would be better. Oh my goodness, I'm just saying it. That gives me sorrow to think that I put somebody through that and she would put me through that Just like oh, you're this person, this is who you are. So much of religion buys into that. Even after you believe in Jesus, they're like you're still this person. You have a wicked and deceitful heart amongst all who can trust you, and so if you understand that, then you'll try to get on God's good side, and so it will motivate you to try it, motivate you to resent God.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:It will motivate. It will motivate you to jump off the hamster wheel and leave Christianity altogether. So that is why shame has no part in a Christian life. You're no longer that thing. You are a new creation. The oldest pass away, Behold the new has come.
Speaker 2:And so you, just you saying that, like, how many times have I read that verse? How many times have people read that verse? And they just read it, but he has no power. Well because they don't believe it.
Speaker 1:But here's why, sorry, go ahead, I keep cutting you up?
Speaker 2:No, why? Why is it?
Speaker 1:because their life is saying the opposite. The Bible says you're a new creation and your life is saying you're the same old dude. And not only is your life saying it, but your wife is saying it, or your husband is saying it, or your boss is saying it or you are saying it or you're saying yeah. And so your life speaks louder than the word and the word Jesus is like I gave you a new heart. And so people quote this Old Testament verse man, my favorite president at Union College, dr Smith. He would have a sermon about how our heart is wicked and deceitful amongst all who can trust it, and I would be there like, yeah, like this is like. I felt like that was gospel. And then I realized that verse was written to a group of people that were not in Christ. The whole Bible is not written about us. There's a very specific part of the Bible that is written about people who are in Christ. Those are the epistles. So, yeah, so this shame thing like we started this off by you talking about how we cannot shame anybody and really what love is is not keeping a record of that wrong at all Like, and you cannot do that. If you believe God is keeping a record of your wrongs, you can't. It's literally impossible. And so all of the people that are judgmental they don't need to be less judgmental in this way they need to understand that the judgment, all of the authority for the judgment, was given to the Son, and the Son says if you believe in me and the one who sent me, you will not come into judgment because you've already passed from death to life. So if people realized that their life is not being judged, because there is therefore now no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus, it would be impossible to look at others and judge them. And our heart would only love them because they would say these people don't understand what's happened, Right?
Speaker 2:They don't know their value, their identity, or you know the gospel. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So how were you able to unload the baggage of shame, that or condemnation that it felt like you were carrying over the years of criticism towards yourself? I would say probably or do you need to do that right now? You need to put some of the baggage down.
Speaker 2:No, I am. I would say brokenness, I was broken.
Speaker 1:How are you understanding that you've been healed from your brokenness, or is that reality setting itself in and being established?
Speaker 2:You know, I think it's a journey, but I would say that the passing of my mom was what broke me, my mom's illness. She got diagnosed with stage four liver cancer last March and passed in May of last year, so less than three months we lost her and in just you know, rethinking my life with my mom and our relationship, which was not perfect, it was very tumultuous and I was kind of a brat to my mom and then she probably got a lot of my wrath. Like you know, here is this picture of who I wanted to look like to people. But my mom got like the real me, like my frustration and when she wasn't living up to my standards, like she really got the brunt of that, like she's the one person that they can write a book about who I was and what my heart really looked like. And so having her be sick and reliving all those moments of that I'm ashamed to even think about. Like talk about not sleeping during her illness and after passing, I mean that was like the worst six months of my life and but then just like processing that with Jesus and my friends and I'll never forget my friend Cheryl, who introduced me to the Love Reality Tour and she said oh, this is embarrassing. Don't put this on YouTube. It's not embarrassing?
Speaker 5:Yes, but she said you know I'm not going to be able to do that.
Speaker 2:She said, you know, because she knew about my relationship with my mom. And she said Moinga, you know, just think about your mom's name was Grace and I think she gave you a lot of grace, like she. It was a gift that that was her name. And. I think that you need to recognize that God is going to give you grace and that she gave you grace. So then, all these things that you know over all the years that I've been coming to just kind of came to a head at that moment. It was like a ha moment and just brought me peace and comfort and and yeah, I think that was kind of me being broken through her illness and her passing that kind of got me to recognize just how much my mom loved me, despite my behavior to her in my criticalness and judgment, and how much God wants me to have that peace and that grace that he gives me. So he wants me to accept it.
Speaker 1:So, do you still listen to the lies that say that you should feel guilty?
Speaker 2:No, I don't. I don't have, I have peace.
Speaker 1:I do. It's crazy. Some somebody with the not a parent had passed away. And when the parent had passed away, all of these thoughts of they were not close, probably the last eight years of that parent's life and guilt was just attacking that person. And that is obviously the work of of the enemy, because guilt says you're not forgiven. That's pretty much it. If you feel guilty, it means you're not forgiven and you have been forgiven once for all time, for anything that you said did, Any misbehavior you had towards your mom or anything uncaring that you it's over, Like. Back to the question when are we gonna stop feeling bad? Right, it's over, you are forgiven, but yet there's no reconciliation for for this person who I was talking to, because obviously the parent has passed and forgiveness we don't need. Reconciliation and forgiveness are two separate things. And we forgive because we're forgiven. We reconcile because God has told us, you know, reconcile yourself once or another, it's an important thing, but when someone has passed, obviously you can't do it. And so the thought was just when Jesus comes in the clouds and you, whether you're alive or you're waking up in the first, in the first resurrection, and you see his face, it's going to be crazy. And then, as you're caught up in the sky and you can see that person who, if they're there which they are gonna be there, if they believe that Jesus was the Son of God they're gonna see you and you're gonna come up to them because you've been wanting that reconciliation, and you're gonna say, hey, oh, and they're just gonna be like yo, that's over. I forgave you so long ago. My father has forgiven you. I've like, we are good. Yeah, and you're gonna get to experience that, even though you know what's gonna happen. Yeah, Like this is just facts, Go ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh, I was just gonna say I am thankful that I did get that. I got that reconciliation with my mom.
Speaker 1:Praise the Lord.
Speaker 2:But it comes back to the belief. Yeah. You know, do I really believe that she, that we're good, that she forgave me, you know? So that's what I was needing to work through after she passed is like. I mean, talk about heartbreak, like that kind of pain is brutal.
Speaker 1:So the lie is that she doesn't believe that you guys are good.
Speaker 2:No, that I don't. I don't believe that when she said we're good, that we were good Like just because you know the shame of what I've done, kind of like you talked about like when you like, not that I want to feel bad about it, but I do feel bad about it, you know. And it's almost like if I don't still feel bad about it then am I really sorry, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 1:Sure, and it's a lie, that you're not sorry.
Speaker 2:Right, oh, I know, of course.
Speaker 1:I mean.
Speaker 2:I know that. I'm sorry, but it's just like.
Speaker 1:Wait.
Speaker 2:So you're saying, if I, stop feeling bad, then maybe I'm not sorry, no feeling bad, like that has nothing to do with it, like having that piece of just like. oh well, she said it, so therefore she means it Versus. Well, if God said that in the Bible, then you know he means it. He's not just going to be saying there's no cognitive nation of those who are in Christ Jesus and not mean that, even though my behavior, or in the moment, or whatever, doesn't coincide with you know the life that I've been called to live.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely. And so when that lie comes in, because the lies come in, but when we know the truth we can spot them. Grace shows us oh, that's a lie. So, the lie that you have to continue to feel bad until you see your mom again lie.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Like first of all, here's a question Does your mom love you? Yes. Okay. So there's no way in hell that she would want you to feel any sort of way. Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:That's what I'm saying again. And she had forgiven you.
Speaker 1:So that's the truth, and but the lie is well, if I don't feel bad about it, then maybe I'm not forgiven, or maybe I'm not true, like my heart isn't lie, lie, lie. All of it. That's all lie. And then there's this lie that the healing, the healing that needs to take place, is going to take a long time, because and sometimes I'll ask people when, when's God going to heal you? And they'll say well, well, I don't know, I don't know but the fact of the matter is, you are healed by his stripes. You are healed. His death on the cross and his resurrection was plenty enough to heal you, because now, because of that, you are crucified with Christ, it's no longer you who lives, but Christ that lives in you. You are healed, you feel healed. And sometimes, when we don't feel healed, we don't say that we're healed, but whether you not, whether or not you feel it has nothing to do with whether you are healed. And so when we believe we're healed because you're healed, it's a fact that we are. Then we can put down the baggage of saying, oh, I'm waiting for God to do this thing, because so many of us are frustrated and angry with God because he said he was gonna do this thing and he hasn't done it yet. But, he hasn't done it yet because in our mind we don't feel it. But that doesn't mean he hasn't done it. It just means, we don't feel it. And this is the point I'm trying to make Believe that he healed you because he has. Then the feeling comes we're not sitting around and waiting for this thing, because if we are, we're gonna be waiting and waiting and we're gonna be going further and further away from our father because he didn't do what he said he was gonna do. But he did do what he said he was gonna do. It's over. It's a victory lap and on your victory lap your mom passed Didn't change that it's still a victory lap. So, when you see her again and she's on the same victory lap, because what was won Jesus? Did it, he won. The whole thing is over. We get to run the victory lap with him and there is some sadness on the victory lap, but sadness is here for a moment. Mm-hmm. So when's he gonna heal you?
Speaker 2:Oh, trust me, I am healed. Let's go, I am healed. It's just that pain that I felt and the shame and the I mean it's just. It's not there anymore, like I choose to believe, and even when, sometimes you know, like it does come back where I think of certain things, but then I am redirected to the truth.
Speaker 1:So, whereas before I just wallowed in the untruths and the feelings and yeah, it doesn't say there's not gonna be sadness, and the sad thing is we will miss our people for a while. Yeah, for sure. Sure, that's sad. It's not sad for them. You know, funerals are for us, not for them. Right. And so we'll miss them. But the pain of missing them will not compare to the joy of seeing them and living with them forever, and so we can know that suffering and sadness is a part of the equation, but discouragement is not Mm-hmm. There's only encouragement for those of us who are in Christ, mm-hmm. While we suffer the same things that Christ, and it's a privilege to suffer in those same things that he did. Mm-hmm. But it's just good news. I don't understand how anybody could do it without this good news. That's the truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the truth. That's the truth. For sure. Yeah, there's a song that and my friend shared with me, and I don't remember the name of the song, but one of the lines says fear may come, but fear will leave. You know, and it's like we are human. We're gonna experience all these emotions, Sure, but when we experience them, we're gonna recognize them, we're gonna. Then we're gonna not give it life, we're not gonna give those emotions life, because if, truly if, we live life by emotions, a lot of things wouldn't get done in this world. And just like Jesus told the layman to gather his things and get up and walk, you know, like he didn't, I'm sure at that moment he was like how am I supposed to do that? I'm lame, but belief came before he could have physically do it, you know. So I think that for me that's kind of I recognize those emotions, I recognize those things, but then I'm redirected to the truth, to what I know to be true.
Speaker 1:Praise the Lord, because if you did live your life based off on those emotions, then the Bible wouldn't be true, because perfect love casts out all fear and he didn't give you a spirit of fear. So, but this feeling of fear is here what does that? Mean Well, he didn't give you that. Your enemy is trying to put that in your mind. And what casts out all fear? The perfect love that he said. Hey, I came while you were screwing up. I forgave you when you hadn't even asked for forgiveness. I gave you a new heart and now, because of all of that, you don't even pass into judgment because you're already gone from death to life, and so now I live in you, and he that is in you is more powerful than he that is in the world. You have authority to. You. Have a like. Let's not even get into how much authority we have as being in Christ. Let's not get into how much power we have as we're in Christ, but what we get to do is we get to tell people about it. We get to tell people and our confession of his faithfulness. That's Heaven's chosen agency for revealing Christ to the world. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And if the gospel doesn't change you, if there's no power in the gospel or life lived in knowing Jesus, then we're not reading the same Bible. You know we're not reading the right Bible because we have been called to believe, to be believers, and the Bible has a lot of powerful states, statements in there that we just we have to believe it. If we don't believe it, if what's in the Bible, then what's the point?
Speaker 1:I always say, if the gospel isn't the most powerful, life-changing, transformational message that you have ever heard, then, don't worry, you haven't heard it yet. And if it? Is. It's probably better than you think. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm yeah. It never disappoints. Mm-hmm. It just gets like another piece of it gets folded back and it's always saying this is already true for you. This is who you are. This is who you are, because the lie and we'll wrap it up with this, the lie that says, oh, when you tell somebody that they have potential and that they can grow and they can do it if they just work hard, the lie is that that actually motivates people. For most people, it's just like okay, another thing that I have to do, right. But what actually motivates somebody is when you tell them who they are. Mm-hmm, when you're like, this is who you are, you are good, your heart is good, your thoughts are good and it's not because of you, so you don't have to be worried about if it's true or not. Mm-hmm, like our hearts and who we are, we're awesome, mm-hmm. Okay, and I'm not bragging on Richard and Mulenga, because the reason we're awesome has nothing to do with us. It's because we were created with that value. Mm-hmm. And it had been lost in our lives. And then Jesus came back and revealed it again and said no, this is who you are. This is your identity. Before I created the world, I had this in mind for you to be holy and blameless before me and love. I predestined you for adoption to me through my son, according to the purpose of my will. Mm-hmm. And that just gets me fired up.
Speaker 2:It should it's good news. It's such good news and I think when I see people that believe lies, it's sad. I'm like if they just knew who they really were. Imagine thinking you're a popper and then being told that you're a prince, you're a child of God, you are, and it's just like what All this authority that had this whole time and I had no idea. And that's what it is. It's like when you know your identity. It's like what It'll change everything. Yeah, for sure the whole life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, thank you, mulanke, for coming on the From Death to Life podcast with Richard Young, and I appreciate you taking this time.
Speaker 2:Oh, thanks for having me, and please do a lot of editing.
Speaker 1:I'm going to leave in all the awesome stuff and I'll just take out the Bootsy stuff. How's that?
Speaker 2:Take out all the Bootsy stuff and then there's things, stuff.
Speaker 1:There's nothing embarrassing, all right, thanks a lot All right, thanks, richard.
Speaker 6:Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you, thank you.