Death to Life podcast
A podcast that tells the stories of people that used to be one way, and now are completely different, and the thing that happened in between was Jesus.
Death to Life podcast
#180 From Shame to Grace: Michael Radut's Journey of Identity, Love, and Faith
What happens when the pursuit of acceptance and the struggle with identity meet the transformative power of faith? Michael Redut takes us on an emotional journey that begins in his devout Adventist upbringing in Loma Linda, California, where he faced both cultural and personal challenges. Together with his wife Bianca, Michael opens up about the trials they've faced in their marriage, offering a heartfelt perspective on love, faith, and the impact of community.
Middle school can be tough, but imagine dealing with an identity crisis, ADHD, and societal expectations all at once. Michael candidly shares his experiences, from fabricating stories to fit in, to the shame and isolation that came with his search for self-worth. His humorous anecdotes and raw honesty provide a deep look into the complexities of adolescence and the coping mechanisms that often lead to destructive patterns.
From an emotional rollercoaster of young love to the profound realization of grace through faith, this episode captures pivotal moments in Michael's life. A transformative trip to Spokane becomes a turning point, bringing about confessions and a renewed understanding of identity through the gospel. With powerful insights into the importance of vulnerability and the life-changing impact of sharing one's story, this discussion promises to resonate and inspire anyone on their own journey of transformation. Join us for an episode that is both moving and uplifting.
Chapters:
0:00 - Stories of Transformation and Freedom
6:14 - Identity Crisis in Middle School
15:55 - Struggle With Self-Acceptance and Shame
23:09 - Struggling With Online Affirmation and Shame
33:10 - Desperate Search for Love and Acceptance
47:14 - Navigating Relationship Struggles and Anxiety
58:47 - Finding Freedom Through the Gospel
1:08:39 - Unexpected Revelation and Redemption
1:13:08 - Discovering Identity and Grace Through Confession
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The world doesn't think that the gospel can change your life, but we know that it can and that's why we want you to hear these stories, stories of transformation, stories of freedom, people getting free from sin and healed from sin because of Jesus. This is Death to Life man.
Speaker 2:The hard part too is like, as I'm, as I was in this, in this situation, there was serious questions and, and bianca and I were really wondering at times like we would have these conversations about, like, should we have gotten married? And in my heart I'm like dude, I don't even know if I love you where are we, we going?
Speaker 1:Where are you taking us, oh man? What part of the country? Where in the world? What time frame? Where?
Speaker 2:So well, you're talking here to someone who grew up in a specific Mecca of the Adventist faith. So I grew up in Loma Linda, california.
Speaker 1:What year were you born, Michael?
Speaker 2:96.
Speaker 1:I was born there 13 years before that. We just missed each other.
Speaker 2:Man so close, so close. Man so close, so close. I think some key things for the story is just I grew up in a very faithfully dedicated family to just want to do stuff for God, my mom, my dad, always involved in church. They just raised my brothers and I I have two older, one younger brother, all boys, and it was just ingrained in us that we were to be good kids, good Christians, and that meant going to church, that meant just being a part of the faith.
Speaker 2:And you know it wasn't necessarily so much do-do, like all these things to do but there was still this ingrained that like you had to practice your faith, and so that was how I was raised and I loved it as a kid man. I loved it. I loved going to church. I loved it as a kid man. I loved it. I love going to church. I loved just being the good Christian kid.
Speaker 2:You know, when I was a kid, like I don't know, maybe five, six, seven years old, and people would ask you what do you want to be when you grow up? My answer was a, let's see, a singer, missionary, doctor. You know, just check all the boxes for for what you could be as a good, good Christian when you grow up or something to that level. You know, I was just like you know I, and I didn't really know what that meant, but I was just like I want to, I want to tell people about Jesus and and everything, um and so, yeah, I, I loved Jesus To some extent. That was just how I was raised. My parents, again very active elders and deaconesses and things of that sort.
Speaker 1:How do we say your last name?
Speaker 2:Redut.
Speaker 1:Redut.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And it's Romanian.
Speaker 2:It is Romanian, so that's the other part. So my parents are romanian, they came from communist romania, and so a big part of that too was, you know, uh, respect, you know, was was ingrained in our household. So my dad, you had to, you had he, he deserved his respect. My mom deserved their respect, um right, yeah, so, or rather, they deserved our respect. So we were the ones who had to respect them and, and there was so many ways in which that took shape, but, yeah, dude, it was they. They they roughed it out, came out to the US and they met out here, got married and tried to start a life together for a family.
Speaker 1:And so you speak Romanian.
Speaker 2:I do. It's a little rough now, but it's in there still somewhere.
Speaker 1:How do you say you are free from sin in romanian whoo?
Speaker 2:okay, this is not gonna say I'm sure there's like an actual theologically accurate way of putting those words together, but, like the word translation that I would put would be like do you actually be the peccat?
Speaker 1:so libre is free and peccat is sin right yeah because Pecado is sin in Spanish. Yeah, so it's a romance language. It is yep, okay, it's it's a little.
Speaker 2:It's a little weird. It's got some you know Russian influence there or you know the Slavic influence, but, um, yeah, and so in fact I, I spent a few years of my life, like when I was just really young, in an American church and then, when I was about 10 years old, we moved our membership to a Romanian church, total fly on the wall type kid got along perfectly with everybody and and everything was was fine and and I just I I didn't like don't remember thinking about this, but I just happened to please everybody, like everyone was always happy with little. You know, my middle name is michael, but back then you know, be a little brian, brian michael, right, little Brian Michael was just he made everybody happy. So, you know, like everything was fine, like I met, like when I remember my childhood, it was beautiful, like amazing, until I turned 10, like around that age, and that was when I, like our church, our family, switched churches, so we started going to Romanian church. I also started in middle school and if you know anything about middle school, that's when you actually start to care about what people think and everything. And so, very quickly, I didn't have that, I didn't feel accepted Because, like one knows, I can speak a little bit of Romanian now, but back then I didn't really know enough and I'd be at this church where there's Romanian speakers that have just moved from Romania and they're my age and I wasn't accepted because I couldn't speak Romanian.
Speaker 2:I couldn't understand them. I couldn't understand them. I was like the odd man out. And then I got to, you know, middle school and my mom raised me like, like they raised me to be one of those. You know there's there's a term that you might've heard. It's like a peculiar generation, right, like I was to be peculiar. So I was different, you know, I, I, my mom, dressed me, and so I showed up there perfectly like, having been perfectly fine with that most of my life.
Speaker 2:And now I'm getting made fun of and teased and there's expectations that I didn't wasn't aware of, and so my solution to it was to lie, because I needed people to like me, like. I couldn't describe any way other than that. You know, it was just like okay, just like okay. How, like what is this world where I have like people don't just get along and everything is beautiful, it's like okay. How do I make this happen? And so, you know I remember some of the first lines I told were like kids at school was that I could like, do a kickflip like I could barely do an ollie, but like I just thought that that would build some street cred if I could be like I could do a kickflip, pop, shove it, and you know I did an impossible one. You know I used to skate a little bit and so I was like that was a that was the lingo of my school back then. Um, and so lying was my solution to getting attention. What's funny is it didn't work. I don't remember anyone being impressed or that changing anything, but that was just what I thought, like oh, that kid is cool, and I begin to just pick apart why that person had to be getting attention and liked and everything from there, and I would try to do the same thing for myself, even if it wasn't true. So lying was my solution, man, I lied by everything, so, actually. So here's how it went down.
Speaker 2:I started sixth grade, which is middle school for me, and I was in like the gifted program or whatever, no-transcript. But even then, like I, I, I've, I don't, I think I've had that my whole life. I've had like ADHD. I didn't know that when I was a kid, I did nothing about it, but like I would procrastinate like the hell out of it. You know, just never do anything until I absolutely had to. And so even the independent study program just did not work, because it was like I would wait till the very last minute. My mom would pull out the teacher's edition and be like, all right, here's the, here's the answers. All right, figure out it and just go do it. Um, and then so after a few months she put me back in school because she was like you're not doing well, and so seventh grade is like my first full year, and and I just every time I want to be like, hey, did you do your homework? I'd be like yes. And you know, if the teachers were like, hey, you're failing, but I'd be like, oh, you know, they lost my assignment or this or that, like all the sorts of crazy you know lives that I could come up with. You know, if I was playing video games with my brothers and my mom was like, hey, you guys have an hour, and an hour was like done, they would send me to go ask my mom if they could have like another 30 minutes and I'd go and then my mom would be like no, you guys need to wrap up now. I'd go to my brothers yeah, she said we could have 10 more minutes. Like I just like I didn't.
Speaker 2:Honestly, this is not something I realized until much later, but the world was just revolving around me and I didn't see anything like I saw nothing wrong with what I was doing. There was no shame, no remorse. I just I didn't see the harm in it and it wasn't working. Like I you know I was a really good liar, like I could lie really well. But also I think there's just an air of dishonesty that people could kind of pick up on. Um, like okay, this is actually kind of a funny story.
Speaker 2:But like, growing up I really wasn't concerned about like you know, uh, dating. Like I had no interest in forming a relationship with with anyone of the opposite sex or anything like that, until some one of my guy friends was like hey, who do you like? And I was like I don't like anybody, like I'm perfectly fine here, I'm in seventh grade. At that point I still hadn't like hit puberty and I was just like and he's like you gotta like someone. Like what, are you gay or something like that.
Speaker 2:And so my response was like, oh okay, I'm just gonna pick someone random and like I just chose some random gal from one of my classes that I was like you know, she's objectively, like, she's a good person to like, like it just picked her. And then that like and this is so funny, man, because like the way that like truth and lies can play in your brain because the second I said that that I liked her, even though I didn't, up until that point, like I didn't care, like she was no, but like she didn't matter to me at all. The second I said that then I was like I have to play this role, that I like her, like I now have to impress her. I now, and I like overnight, I changed who I was. Like.
Speaker 2:I was just this book-loving nerd, just do well in school, keep my head down, keep the like I did not care about anything. And then immediately I was like, oh, this is what my mom's dressing me with. It's got to go. I need real clothes, mom. We're going to go buy some Levi's and Vans and all this stuff and like it just changed and I was like I, I can't, because I, I couldn't be, um, who I wanted.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh, this who I, who I think I am, is not accepted, and so I have to be what people want me to be. And that just continued. You know, that's middle school, but, man, that just continued through through high school and on and on and again. It never worked. Right.
Speaker 2:You know, I never worked. Yeah, and that's the thing People would like. Called me poser, no-transcript. Well, it was never there and it was more importantly in my eyes. It was never there from who I wanted it to be, from right you know, yeah man.
Speaker 1:So you go like this throughout high school. You didn't know any of this, you just this was life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and again, I like I was familiar, like, so, okay, I'm trying to think of the timeline on this exactly. And so, okay, I'm trying to think of the timeline on this exactly. But at some point in time there was so after seventh grade, I was homeschooled again in eighth grade because I didn't do well in seventh grade. Mom was like, we're putting you back in homeschool. And that year I was homeschooled, the same year as one of my good friends from church. So I ended up having this one good friend at church and he was also homeschooled that year. But he was like I'm trying to think I was the Robin to his Batman.
Speaker 2:Okay, here's this blue eyed, blonde French kid from you know that came from Belgium, romanian, he's Romanian, belgian, and he, just in my eyes, was like, oh, like, and I think there was evidence of this that like he was the one getting all the attention and all the affirmation, all the love, um, and it was just like a multitude of things. You know, he just he, he, he. I thought you know he was like, okay, it's a trick, he's more attractive than I was, is how I was seeing it. And you know, he, his, his parents seemed to have a better, you know, understanding of, of taste and and social cut, like connection and things like that. So, like my parents weren't really doing much to help me with that, but I felt like his parents were, and so I just felt like I stood no chance against him, like against this guy who was like supposed to be my best friend Right, and I'm over here still feeling like very just, vulnerable, like, oh, I can't really trust him because he's he's got a leg up on me.
Speaker 2:And at one point in time there was a gal who started coming to our church, who also moved to the area, and since both him and I are homeschooled, you know, our pool of eligible people is small, and so we're both like, ooh, you know interested, and whether I knew it or not, like, ooh, you know interested, and whether I knew it or not, like my answer to it was to start talking bad about my buddy, you know. Oh, he did this one time. Oh, he did this one time. Oh, like you know, pulling up all the dirt that I could because I was like I got to level this playing field, you know, and so in that case it was like I knew this playing field, you know, and so in that case it was like I knew what I was doing, but at least it was true.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like I could lie about myself a bit, but now I'm talking, telling true things that were not supposed to be shared or whatever. They're private, things are just, they're humiliating things. Um, again, to to make me look, and I was aware of that, but in my eyes I I was like this is what I have to do. And you know, it's funny because at the same time, like again, it was just this desperation because in my mind I just like I really wanted like friends, like I wanted to feel accepted, to feel loved, and at the same time it was like as I was doing some stuff, then he would sometimes do some things and and like we were friends, but also kind of not always being the nicest to each other and just being dramatic that we, that we could be, and just being dramatic that we could be. And so there was a lot of this fending for myself in pursuit of affirmation, of feeling like somebody cared about me and loved me just for who I was, if that makes any sense.
Speaker 2:For sure, I think a lot of people kind of go through situations like that you know, trying to find their place in the world and value. And the answer for me came you know. So I'm lying and I'm trying to go about that and eventually at some point, um, let's see. So I got back in high school ninth, 10th grade and then 11th grade. I was homeschooled again, um, and me and my you know good friend, my best friend at the time, we just ended up kind of going our separate ways. Um, just, unfortunately, you know, different decisions, different priorities in life. School I get exposed to pornography, Right. So I'm, even before I was like I'll be real, even before I had hit puberty, right, like I get exposed and I'm confused by it, cause I'm like, not really again interested in any of this stuff.
Speaker 2:Um, but there's a curiosity in my brain a bit, you know, and it's like okay that you know that was interesting and I don't really want to do anything with it. But huh, and and, and that starts to spur more of a curiosity as well, for, you know, for, for, for the opposite sex, um, but then I began to, you know, obviously, hear from, hear from pastors, from preachers, you know in the church just how evil, right, porn is and right the porn is like, hey, don't be like, that can mess up your life, it's going to turn you like. It's so evil and it's like almost like Paul talks about it's like the second. Someone told me that now I'm dealing with shame. Yeah, and I'm like, ok, that now I'm dealing with shame yeah.
Speaker 2:And I'm like, okay, I want nothing to do with that, but there's something in me and you know it's hard Rich because like I think that, like you know, you have kids that just hit puberty and just there's a natural biological process that begins right of interest. But for me it's like that interest was immediately like that is wrong, like even just the interest, right, even just this, like you know, curiosity, I guess you could say in my head it was like don't entertain that, it's evil, it's corrupt, it's. And it's like at one point in time and and you know, I, I hope my buddy listen, you know my old friend listens to this podcast, but I hope he doesn't mind me throwing him under the bus. But one point in time I mean not throwing him under the bus or anything like that, but like I tell him, like when I was, you know, growing up, we were really good friends. I was like, hey, dude, like there's this other girl, like in our lives, a friend of ours, so barely a friend, and I was like dude, I had a dream and barely a friend. And I was like dude, I had a dream and like I was like kissing a girl or something like that and like she looked kind of like this girl and he went and told her that I had a like, like a, a whole crazy dream about her and so, like in my brain, I'm also starting to feel like, hey, any thought anything like that is just evil, evil, evil.
Speaker 2:And so on many other fronts I'm like, okay, I can't, but there's that curiosity and things and the shame just leads to it being a place that I start to go to more and more often, even before I understood anything, even before I really kind of like comprehend things.
Speaker 2:It was just like I'm going there and I'm and I'm going back there and I'm like I shouldn't be doing this, I shouldn't be doing this, and it's like, and that was like the one stain on my life, like, and I'd look back, I'd be like I just, I just got to take care of this.
Speaker 2:It's the one thing that's driving me, apart from God, and I just need to take care of it.
Speaker 2:And at first, you know it was just messing around, you know, with websites and to have like I don't even know how it happened, but I just started messing around online, like not even jumping straight forward, like I just started making friends with people online and I began to see like, hey, I could be somebody that people like online, because I knew how to talk, I knew how to lie, I knew how to create a person that that would connect with people and somehow, you know, get along. And that's what I would do, was I would make friends and all these friends. And then I began to realize that, oh, if I sweet talk even better, you know, here I am as a 13, 14, 15 year old like I don't even know how old I was, just like connecting with people, I could say things, and there are other people and other girls who are going through the same curiosities and things like that, and we can now start to have relationships. And so I began to find that affirmation online and I felt it.
Speaker 2:It made me feel good sure because I was like, oh, I'm not as bad as I thought. I was, like I just need to, because I had really bad acne when I was younger too, and I knew how to use photoshop. So, like I knew, I was like, oh see, if I just didn't have acne, I wouldn't look too bad just use this brush here, there you go small brush.
Speaker 1:There you go, cloning tool yeah, cloning tool stamp, I'll just stamp.
Speaker 2:And so I was like that was what I was telling myself, was like, oh, you know, it's just, if I looked better, people would like me, you know. And I was also like really, really skinny, like, like you know, I'm, I'm six, three, and at some point I was like six, two, six, three and 130 pounds.
Speaker 1:Oh, mercy, you had to run around in the shower to get wet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, really, I found, like this, the solution to that question of like, okay, finding community and things online and I just continue to, to invest in that really for, like you know, and there were times where, like, I'd have like an online you know girlfriend or something like that, and I would start, I would stop messing around with everybody. But it was just something where, dude, like every, it was like almost every day I was actively talking to people, whether it was the same person and whatnot, but it was just. It was something where I was so deep into this drug of affirmation of just just just foolishness, you know, and feeling the shame.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's the thing. You know, there was shame and the crazy part with it is like the shame, like you know, in some ways it was a blessing Cause, like I never, never ran away from God, like I never felt like I was so far in the deep end and, honestly, part of me feels like maybe I should have been. Like I forgive, I have full forgiveness, but it's like I'm just like God, like why wasn't I more repulsed by that? But a big part of it was just because it was solving the need that I was wanting. It was my idol, right, it was what I could trust on. You know, when I felt dejected or I felt alone or I felt it's like, it just seemed like that was the answer. And so, and I just was there feeding the pigs and at the same time, like I was saying I knew God was there, I would pray to him. I had this solid relationship that I knew God was love and I knew that I needed love Because I would go to my young adult leaders and stuff and I'd be like I want love, like I want it from the community here at my church, I want it from from, like I want us to talk about it because it ain't happening.
Speaker 2:You know, like I, I and and the hard part about like an ethnic church and an ethnic community and I'm sure you know you, you grew up somewhat in a Hispanic community as well is that there's this assumption that those in the community are your only like, reliable, trustworthy people, like, especially from the parents' perspective. Like for my parents, I was not allowed to hang out with people outside of the Romanian community, even if they were Adventist, even if whatever it was, either my family or other people from the church and it's like and we have a lot of people from my faith background in Loma Linda, as you know, so it's like I'm sure I could have you know, and later on it I did find people that were more like accepting, and then I was able to be around and just actually be myself, but for so much of my life I was not allowed that privilege because it was like, no, they have to be in our community. And so I knew that, like I knew that there was a better answer, but just I couldn't find it. And the problem with my mindset too, became that every person, every girl just being online and all this stuff like that, became an object online and all this stuff like that became an object, like when I'd meet them in person. You know you would think that I would keep it online, but it's like it became too fester into my real life for us. Like I had to have their affection, like I, I I needed to do whatever needed to be done to try to get it. And it was a game, bro, it was such death because the second I would get what I wanted. They were worthless to me. Like I would talk with someone for a week, two weeks, and then something would happen between us and then I was like I would feel shame and in my shame, I would feel put off and I would completely reject that person whose trust I had attempted to build.
Speaker 2:And that became kind of the same pattern in my life Just people, every time, you know, I would meet them. It was just like, okay, I want to get your affection, I want to get your interest. And it was girls, it was also guys and like if I saw someone as like hey, having some sense of like, respect, popularity, I was like all right, I got to do what I can to make that person think I'm cool and you know, and if I'm feeling like, okay, god is, you know, as a good Christian, I will take. You know, if I find someone who I don't think is cool, I'll still spare my like, I won't be too cocky or too proud, like I'm going to spend time with them. And you know, it's like it was always this transactional level where I'm like, oh, you know, I feel good about myself because I spent time with this person who's less than I am.
Speaker 2:It's like it was just, yeah, it was just revolving around myself and again, there was so much like and I wasn't happy with it.
Speaker 2:You know, like the whole time, yeah, like I would just stick in it, like, but there was also a big part of me that was like I want, like I said I want something more, um, and that more for the first time I say, came when there was a like my my first love quote unquote if she's going to be moving to the area and then we'll be able to continue this. And and by then I was like 16, 17, but like, still, I was like going back to the same drug, you know, every so often, um, still trying to to get that affirmation. And I found, you know, I started talking to this gal and and she was the first person who I was like, oh, I can be myself, like I don't know what it was. It was like I can just be me and we're talking and we're vibing, and there wasn't any like sexual and like undertones to it at all and I just found myself completely free from the desire to even pursue that.
Speaker 1:What happened? Did she move to your town or not?
Speaker 2:So I, you know, I'm in love with her. She says that she likes me too, but then she's like hey, I'm, I'm before I moved there, cause she was graduating high school different side of the country, and then you're going to move to to California. She was like I'm going to go visit my home country in Europe and there's a guy I used to date that's out there and I don't know what's going to happen when I see him. And so I was like well, make your choice now, because I'm not just going to be your plan B. And so we end up splitting. So this is the part where the story kind of gets interesting. We're not splitting, splitting or whatever. We weren't even really like a huge thing. But and I'm heartbroken because I'm like I found the answer Rich I was like love, safe space, security, that's what I need. So she goes over there. I don't know what happens, I never found out. But she comes back and I hit her up and we start to have this ambiguous relationship where it's like we liked that we had, but we also like know, there's some unspoken things and everything, and it's like we don't really know. But I'm still like desperate, cause I'm like that was what I was searching for Safety, security, safe space, affirmation, just love to be who I am and and I'm just like desperate for it. So, like I'm actually like I was purposely being so, intentionally like I don't want to be come on too hard, because I would notice that if I'd asked, like hey, so what happened in Spain? Or or whatever, if I'd asked certain questions, it would just shut her down. And so I was like, okay, I gotta just be cool. And I even became, you know, extra cool again. I started hitting the gym and, and, and I was like I gotta be someone that, that, that she likes, you know, and and so I started hitting the gym, which, which is a good thing because, like that, made me feel good about myself. But I shared this story with you in Nebraska and I just want to share the story for for the world, because you know that was an interesting year.
Speaker 2:Um, and the premise for this it's going to come back up later on A story is uh, the Romanian church that I grew up at they would do these things every year called um, essentially promises. So the beginning of the year, everybody would get a random, uh, a random bookmark with a Bible promise that one of the elders, whatever had written down and and so it's all Bible promises that were like really cool, and I would, and you would take it. That was your verse for the year, your promise for the year, and that year, which was in 2015,. Um, you know, like it was like 2014 was just a crazy year. Both my grandparents had passed away. I was like I'd gone through depression and it was just a tough year.
Speaker 2:So 2015 comes and I'm still on that, like that pursuit for, for, for affirmation, and the first that I get is knock, and you shall see that. I wish I could have memorized it perfectly Seek and you shall find. Knock and the door shall be open unto you. Ask and you shall receive. And I was like all right, god, I'm going to claim this verse. And every single time I claimed that verse with full faith, it was answered. Like every time, like you would think I would have asked like way more, like God, million dollars or something like that, but like it was just at times in my life where I was like I desperately want and God can't, like God would deliver, and so this gal that I was talking about, this first love of mine. You know, I'm like going crazy after cause she showed me what it felt like to be just accepted and loved as I am me, what it felt like to be just accepted and loved as I am.
Speaker 2:She moves to California and I'm like hopeful that maybe something can kick back up again and we're talking, and we're talking every day, but like still, it's very surface level, it's like we're, we're all like we. Just it's kind of scary to either of us to go any further. And I get to a point, um, where I'm like yeah, hey, okay, she moved here, she's getting settled. And I was like, hey, we should, we should hang out sometime. And she was like, yeah, and like we, we start planning like an evening time to hang out, and like there was some eclipse or solar, red moon or something like that that was happening and I was like, hey, let's, let's go see this together. She's like, yeah, let's do it. And I'm like sweet, so I'm like planning for it and I'm like, all right, and we're talking about it, but then she just goes like disappears, and she was like out shopping or something like that. So I was like, oh, her phone died. But I'm like, okay, we have plans for that night to go hang out to go see this red moon. And I'm like, all right, well, like we weren't fully locked in, like we both agreed to it, but like we didn't set a time, a place or anything like that. It was just like, yeah, let's do it. And I'm like, oh, but the time takes on and it's like getting a little later.
Speaker 2:I'm like, man, she lives like an hour and a half away, you know, as far as I know. It's like I know she moved to la and I'm out in loma linda, and so I'm like, okay, well, let me just drive out that direction, then when she gets signal, she can tell me, you know where we're really to go. And so that's what I do. I drive out to that direction and I'm like, okay, no, she's going to school in this area. So I'm going to go in this area and I'm just hanging out in that area.
Speaker 2:And it's funny, it's like I'm talking, like God begins to talk to me. He's like, dude, just go home. They don't go, don't do this, just go home. And I'm like, no, god, like this is what I need. This, this, this, this person and everything she's given me is what I need. And so God is like to just go home, but I persist. So I get out there and I'm out in like Los Angeles and I have a long board. I'm just getting around. I'm not getting any messages from her but like she didn't even read my messages, like it would show you if it was red. So like I know she wasn't fully ghosting me, right, I'm like her phone has got to be dead. She's never done this before. We're on great terms. And so I'm just skating around, skating around and God's like, dude, just go home. And I'm like, no, god, I'm asking I want to see her tonight, want to see her tonight. You promised that you would answer my. You know that you will give it to me. So give this to me.
Speaker 2:And as I'm skating by, like just not having a clue where I was or like where she was, she, uh, like I see a person outside and just out of the blue I go up to that person, almost like by the holy spirit kind of lead me in some way. And I'm like, and I asked the person, I'm like, hey, just out of curiosity, has anyone moved into the neighborhood recently? Like someone with a young daughter? And yeah, and I'm like I don't know why I'm asking this question. But like God was just like dude, fine, here, go talk to that person. And I asked that question. That person's like, yeah, our next door neighbors just moved in and they have a young daughter. And I was like no way, that's too crazy, that doesn't make like that's impossible.
Speaker 2:I'm in just like LA, I'm in Burbank, like it's so big, like there's no way I could have been right there. And God's like dude, I, I answered your prayer a little bit here. Like you know that I, I'm orchestrating it, that I'm here, just go home. And I'm like, no, I'm sticking around, I'm sticking around and like this fight happens with God for like 30 minutes or something like that. It was quite a bit.
Speaker 2:And then God's like fine, like if that's what you want, as I'm skating by, I see a car pull around and she's in the car and she didn't see me yet. But like I see that and I'm like that was her car, she's in the car and got and she pulls into that house and God was like there you go, now go home, don't, don't fool around, don't mess around, like all that's going to happen is heartbreak. And I'm like, no, god, I'm sticking around around and so I, I go. Sure enough, there was her, it was her house. My mind was blown as this is happening too, because I'm like no way like. This isn't. This is impossible, that out of all of this you know burbank city and los angeles, like that, that is, that ended up right there. But I go up and we, we ended up hanging out that evening and it was, and my heart was just like on top of the moon and I'm like, yes, this was perfect, this is exactly what I envisioned. But man, it just told, like it just drove me into thinking that again, that is like, rather than the online drug that I was going to, she was now that drug, that drug.
Speaker 2:And after that night, I just began to like, you know, come on to her in more like an aggressive way to be like, hey, okay, let's get like. That was fantastic, like I want, let's, let's go out on a date, let's do something, let's make this happen. And she was like not interested and I just could not let that go. Like I was in straight up heartbreak and I was just reluctant and resistant and like, from that day, it was like a whole year and a half after that like, I was just continually like desperate for her that I could not let it go. So God was right yeah, like a hundred percent. And I saw that and like it. It didn't like it kind of hit after that, but it was like wasn't until like a year or so later where I'm like just desperate, like calling her, and I'm like, hey, come on, like just being a pathetic. Well, I have mercy on me, you know, I I was just searching for something that I think every heart is looking for, but just in the worst place.
Speaker 1:Man, I think we got to jump ahead a little bit. So, let's I. You went to college. You met up with Bianca. How much were you telling her about some of this stuff when you, when you meet her and you guys, this stuff when you meet her and you guys are, because we heard her side of the story. But as you're progressing in the relationship, had this stuff been solved?
Speaker 2:So the thing that, still, that it was like I mean there was multiple things that weren't solved no, none of it was like I mean there was multiple things that weren't solved no, like none of it was solved. Um, I would say the part that was kind of solved was when I got to to university like, dude, god, god was good like all my life. You know, there's a song says all my life you have been faithful and I just, I just know that to be so true. My goal when going off to college was I want to have a life that will give me that community, that fun, that like the answer to what I was searching for.
Speaker 2:Like the answer to what I was searching for because it wasn't lining up, it wasn't working, you know, even though, yeah, I love God and all those things like that, like just it wasn't there, like the people weren't there, whatever it was, I just couldn't find the answer for what I was searching for. And so, you know, I had my young adult, whatever, youth leader, and he was like get baptized? And I was like, no, I don't want to get baptized, because I know that when I go off to college, I want to drink, I want to party, I don't know maybe you sleep around, I don't know what like I'm planning for, but I just I want to live it up like.
Speaker 2:Live it up like I want a life. That's life, you know, and god thankfully put two things in my way to to to save me from foolishness. To save me from foolishness um, one of them was a gal that I dated, that we met. She was up in canada. God again worked things out and and the crazy part of that is that she was, she was muslim, and we connected for about our love for cold play and I know the blood to the head is better than viva la vita.
Speaker 1:What do you think?
Speaker 2:uh, no, man, it's all about uh, yellow and clocks, and so I'll own it.
Speaker 1:I love soft rock, let's go.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, and I do appreciate that because God used that to begin to change my relationship with my faith, because up until then it was just what I had to do and I met someone who knew nothing, bro, like like you have people who don't know about God or atheists or whatever, and then maybe you have people who live in America and their other religions and they don't really know about God. Dude, she was from Turkmenistan, which is like the second most oppressive country in the world, and so she knew nothing, zero about who Jesus was about, what Christmas was about, anything like that. She was clueless and God used that dude. God worked through that relationship because I had the opportunity to kind of share with her about what I believed and things and really kind of put things under the microscope. It was at that time where I began to realize that a lot of what I believed, about just what I had to do to, you know, appease God and things like that Like I couldn't start off by just telling her that and I just began to tell her about a father who loved her, and by telling her those things I began to also believe a lot of it and God used that to protect me from just going into a lot of other foolishness.
Speaker 2:And then after a few months at college, I also joined a Christian club that God also used to just surround me with the community people who I was like, oh, you mean I can talk, and again you're going to say I'm a nerd, but I'll just do it. I could talk about Pokemon with my friends from church. I hear them talking about Pokemon and League of Legends and I'm like, wait, no, we can't do this, dude, we're in a Bible study, you can't do that here. But they were doing it and I was like this is crazy. And then they would go from that and be like oh yeah, I read this in my Bible and God's been telling me this and God's working in my life in this way and let's pray for you. And I was just. And it changed my relationship with God where I was like, oh, like, okay, god can be a friend and I don't have to be someone. I'm totally not. And so I joined that group and it was again. God worked it. There was also a couple there that just they poured out their love in the most amazing way, christ-like way as possible, and I began to want to be a part of that. So I signed on to be part of their leadership team on the next coming year.
Speaker 2:I met Bianca that fall quarter and I was now and again this is where I kept. You know, I jumped from like drug to drug, band-aid to band-aid in some ways, because this girl in Canada was kind of my drug, of like you know, giving me that affirmation and feeling good and it was. You know, there was goodness there in its own way. But now I finally had friends in person that I could connect with in a community that I could be with and have life with, and that didn't work with a long distance relationship. I felt in my mind that I had to choose because either one I was going to FaceTime her and talk to her and travel up to her and make my life about that, or I was going to be pouring into these friends that I was making in my Christian club and I decided that I was choosing my Christian club and I was going to pour into them.
Speaker 2:And the unfortunate fact too is at the time I met Bianca and I say unfortunate not because it's very fortunate to have met her and I say unfortunate, not because it's very fortunate to have met her, but I also began to entertain thoughts of like oh hey, this person who I met isn't the only person that I could be with in my life.
Speaker 2:And I say that because, as we talk about in our marriage, that was something that kind of lingered, because Bianca knew that there was some interest in that. You know Bianca's kind of pretty or whatever. And the bigger thing was in my mind I was like, oh, Bianca's excited about church ministry. In my mind, growing up with my family, it was like that's a huge part of my life, it's a big part of being a Christian and this, you know, the girl I was dating at the time, she's a new believer, she's not on that yet, so she won't, like that will never really be a part of it. And so I just saw, like that we're not compatible anymore and so we split up and Bianca and I we were just doing a lot of you know stuff on campus together, ministry, together.
Speaker 2:I played it cool, you know, and part of me was like I felt responsibility for that. I was like I can't like, no, I don't want to pursue a relationship with bianca, like this is inappropriate, this is wrong. I, I shouldn't do this, um, but after a few months I say a few is like two months uh, we, we went to like a young adult thing and they talked about relationships and I was like you know what. Hey, bianca's like kind of a cool girl, but then actually I remember now I was actually like no, like I saw that and I realized that I was attracted to Bianca and I was like I need to put space between us. We had a conversation. I think she told you guys about it. You know we had a conversation. Hey, we're not really going to talk for a few months, Like we should take some time apart, because we're serving in leadership, we're doing ministry together. We can't really be dating and doing ministry together and like two weeks later we were talking and so the relationship starts. Man, you know the other.
Speaker 2:The other difference between you know that I saw bianca was this previous girl that I was dating. She was more reserved, not like a crazy adventure person, and I meet bianca. I'm like, oh, bianca's up for anything and so my mind I'm like she's a better fit for me and the life that I want, like I don't want someone to be with someone who's not going to be up to do life, and so I'm interested in Bianca and we start dating and that's what's driving us is just, oh, hey, we're going to do fun things together, but then very shortly into our dating, we have sex and that puts a bit of a damper on some things, because now there's some shame and there's some guilt there of like, oh, like, what are we doing?
Speaker 2:and and then a few months later, you know, she has the situation that she's talked about with, with her mcat and and medical school, and and this bianca has the situation that she's talked about, with her MCAT and medical school, and this Bianca that I date, that I was excited about to date, is gone. I'm anticipating, oh, she's going to be awesome and we're going to be like, let's entertain people at our house. I'm imagining us getting married and doing stuff like that. And now I'm like, oh, she doesn't want to talk to anybody, she just she just wants to be, you know, isolated alone.
Speaker 2:And in my brain I'm just like, well, you know what? This is just her anxiety. This is just you know the stages, phase. We're just got to get through it and then everything will be beautiful, like she'll go back to normal. That people pleasing thing, I mean it just keeps coming up right at the same time, right that same. That was the solution, things. That was it. Now, again, it was like, hey, I just have to do this and I just have to to rise up and be the man and just like, and and do whatever I need to do to to make her feel good, to make her feel good, to make her feel safe, secure.
Speaker 3:But at the same time I wasn't feeling safe and secure.
Speaker 2:You know, like I knew, that she loved me but I didn't know if she loved me like for who I was or who she thought I could be and you know.
Speaker 2:And so we were just in this place of doing our best, like making the love happen, if that makes any sense like it felt in some ways kind of like forced or kind of just like, hey, we got to make this work and stuff but didn't feel very organic. And then there were times and this is the thing too is that, as she's dealing with this anxiety, I would blame her for things, at least in my mind, where we would go visit places or go to retreats or whatever, and we would meet people and that same people place anything would come out. And even, like I talked about, I would see people like ladies who were attractive or who I could tell kind of were like this is horrible, like top of the food chain in my mind at the time, right, like, oh, they are the ones that other people you know want. And there was that innate part of me that was like all right, I need to make that person like me. I had no intention of anything happening, but I was like I need that person to like me. You know whether, again, whether they were a girl or a guy.
Speaker 2:But then there was also this situation where, like I talked about earlier, that objectification would happen as well. While I'm making them try to make, my brain was feeding and lust was forming for people in my life and Bianca had no idea about this and we get married and I'd be able to just dump everything on her at some point in time, like, hey, I thought you were going to get over this anxiety and stuff, and she would also resent me because she could tell man, she could tell when I was barking up the wrong tree and I was acting weird. And there are people in our life who are excited for traveling or visiting and she's like, okay, you're acting odd around that person, but I'll just put it off. I'm like, oh no, you're being jealous, you're being insecure and putting the blame on her and like internally, like from my perspective, like part of me knew what I was doing.
Speaker 2:Part of me didn't know, like I would think that there was issues with like, maybe lust, or issues with affirmation, but it was just something that I was kind of removed from.
Speaker 1:And this is all before you guys were married.
Speaker 2:No, even like, even when we were married, like it started. Like I said, we get married and it starts to boil over into that Right Like, but when we're married. Now I'm pushing back on her. Right.
Speaker 1:So before then I just took it yeah.
Speaker 2:Marriage didn't solve your problems then no Strange. Exactly putting up with, you know, all these things of the past, anxiety or whatnot. We're done in resentment or with expectation of that doesn't change, that doesn't no it doesn't help. That's not the move.
Speaker 1:No I should shut that down and man.
Speaker 2:The hard part too is like, as I'm, as I was in this, in this situation, there was serious questions and and bianca and I were really wondering at time like we would have these conversations about, like should we have gotten married? And in my heart I'm like dude, I don't even know if I love you oh man because, how far into this was this going on? Like you know, we're a year in we're, we're, we're. We've been together for three years and I'm having these thoughts and I'm just like I don't know Right.
Speaker 2:And I'm also like looking at what you know, what's going on in my mind and what's in know behind closed doors, and I'm like I want to love you. I really, really do but like there's a part of me that would just feel like, oh, with her anxiety or with her preferences or whatever, just who she was. And this sounds like crazy, right, because it's like why do you marry someone if this is what your thoughts are? But in my mind I'm like, okay, I like her, she makes me happy, but I don't feel like she fits society's mold for someone that's an impressive wife.
Speaker 1:You're pretty selfish, yeah, old Michael's pretty selfish.
Speaker 2:No, I was, and like I didn't verbalize this, but it was just some level of like man, why can't you be more than dude? When I talked about my my well, I won't go into that, but that that was like that was in my mind a lot of times. I was like you don't want to go to potluck, you don't want to do this, you don't want to do that. Why can't you be more with it?
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, Like you know, and then anytime that she would bring something to me, my response was to sometimes just throw something back at her. It wasn't going well.
Speaker 2:No, no, it was not. And at the same time we were both being like, well, hey, you know, we have God, like we're sticking in, like we're a great marriage, like there was this dichotomy of like we've decided, we've committed to each other, and you know, there are moments where everything would go well. But in my mind I just could not, like I was just a slave to these thoughts. And this continues. You know, there was a big part and I don't think we'll have full time to get into it today, maybe another opportunity.
Speaker 2:But, like you know, there were, you know, things going on at church as well that, like I was taught that as a good Christian, you're involved with church and you're in it. You're involved. You're at Sabbath school and you're at church 90% of the time. You only don't go to church if you're not in town or you're sick. That's how I was taught. That's how I was taught. And there were things going on and just I actually made church service and ministry my mistress. Like there were evenings where I would spend from Friday night to Saturday morning at church, all night working on something, whether it was media, whether it was something with the bulletins, whether whatever. Like it was the most ridiculous thing. You're crazy dude I am, I was, I was All night, all night.
Speaker 2:By myself, Like I'm just only there in like some office. Like come on, God gets ready for Sabbath morning and Bianca's over there in like like our. Come on, god it's ready for sabbath morning and bianca's over there in. Like like our marriage isn't working out and I'm just pouring more and more and more time into church did she know anything about the porn stuff by then?
Speaker 2:she. I had brought it up at some point because, like lightly, but she didn't know the extent at which it was, so it wasn't a common conversation. She didn't even think about it. I just felt like it was a personal burden to bear.
Speaker 1:Okay, we're going to take a quick break from the episode and I'm bringing on my sister, jadra. Jadra, quick question what's up, how you doing, how you feel.
Speaker 4:Oh man, I have God's peace. I feel great.
Speaker 1:Okay, how long have you been, how long has it been since you first started to understand that you were free from and dead to sin, free, free, free? How long has it been?
Speaker 4:Oh, it's been three and a half years. Yes.
Speaker 1:Three and a half years. That's quite a bit of time. What would you say? The?
Speaker 4:gospel has done in perhaps changing your life, would you say oh boy, how much time do we have? Yes, the gospel, oh, it's just radically changed my thinking, radically changed how I see myself. I have assurance of salvation. I know my father loves me, my heavenly father and I live in abundant life, and so I'm lacking in nothing. That means I have the fullness of God's peace and his love and his joy, and so that reflects now in my marriage. My marriage is better than it's ever been. But that took some time. That took some time for Jesus to do some work. And just looking at my children in that same light I mean the jobs that I do it's changed everything, richard, everything.
Speaker 1:So everything pretty much then.
Speaker 4:Pretty much everything.
Speaker 1:You've donated of your time, your energy, your finances to keep this message going. Why is that important to you that this message gets out to the people?
Speaker 4:Well, when I received the gospel, god radically changed my lens of how I look at others, and it's like he zoomed me out, like Google earth, and I started to look at all the other humans on the planet, literally as my brothers and sisters, and we have the same father. So I just want everybody to be one big, happy family. I want us to all be together in the kingdom Now, like I want people to experience God's peace in their life and have true joy, not just temporary happiness, and so, yeah, that's it's. It's good stuff.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. If you're listening and and you know the drill, you know what I'm about to say loverealityorg slash give. We are, we are going for this thing and every dollar that you donate gets this message going out. There. Either the podcast, internet Church, several podcasts, jj, you have a podcast. What's your podcast called?
Speaker 4:My podcast is called Worthy of Everything.
Speaker 1:Yes, please subscribe Five stars. If you don't put five stars, I'm inclined to believe you're a hater. That's right. No, but yeah, every dollar goes to getting this movement out there, so join with us. Lovereallyorg slash, give Anything else. What's your podcast about Jadra?
Speaker 4:Oh, worthy of Everything is about how to walk this out. Walk out freedom from sin, identity in Christ, especially if you maybe have a history of abuse or trauma or addiction, anxiety, depression. But the over-encompassing topic is intimacy with God.
Speaker 1:Man, that sounds awesome. Thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate you. Thank you, richard. Thank you so much for coming on. I appreciate you. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Richard, let's jump ahead. How did you find us?
Speaker 1:Like what happened.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so 2022, two years ago. Joel Moutray shares a podcast on his Instagram.
Speaker 1:Love Joel. Shout out to Joel.
Speaker 2:And I love him because this is how the story starts, and I listened to it and again, I knew who God was. I love God. I knew he was love.
Speaker 1:Like I could go on for days you hang out with him all night at the church.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like, I'm like, and Joel talks about it and I'm just like I'm jiving with what he's saying and there's some things there I'm like, huh, okay, interesting. But that resonates like everything lined up with with my picture of God actually, and I'm like, but in that the power hadn't hit. And so I take that and I'm like really feeling fit, like filled by that podcast and I'm like, god, there was something there. And Joel and I hit up, reach out to Joel, and we started hitting it, you know, connecting, and I'm beginning to be like free from lust. Huh, okay, I like Lord, I believe it. But like there wasn't really much there, I start sharing things with Bianca to try to encourage her. She's like hey, joel's story is so similar to mine. You got to listen to it, hoping that she would also start to get the picture. It took months. It took months before she finally started getting into, like to listening to the podcast and then she began listening to it.
Speaker 1:You're starting to doubt, like you're listening to it a lot, I listen to two podcasts.
Speaker 2:I listen to just to joel's and floors. How'd you pick floors? I think I think joel shared a reel of floor where she talked about her story and that's why I was like, oh, I want to go see that. So that was the only reason why I didn't listen to anyone else's, as far as I know. Maybe I did, I'm not sure and you were like this is cool but I was like this is cool, this is powerful.
Speaker 2:God is good, bianca, you have to check this out. And the big part again was like, because I wanted, I did want her to, I wanted to bring this into light, I wanted her to know, um, but it took her months. It wasn't until january or so of 2023, where she begins to actually listen to the podcast and she's like, oh, and she starts listening to a lot of them and then starts joining the Bible studies. So she would tell me about this and I was like, oh, that's cool, like cool for you. I follow Justin Koo. I didn't had no idea he was actually affiliated with Love Reality, but I'm just like there's all these things. I'm like that's cool, it's out there. I don't really like desperately need it until man.
Speaker 2:So, okay, 2023, last march, bianca and I go to spokane. Crazy turn of events. I thank god. I thank him, because we were supposed to be in havasu pie, which is this big hiking trip that we were going to do in arizona, and god sent a flood to change our plans and we randomly were like, hey, let's go check out Spokane, because we've been thinking about buying a house and because of my crazy church ministry take like affecting our marriage, which that had been discussed. I was like thinking let's just move away from this city so that I don't have to like step down from church ministry. I can just do a clean cut and we can start completely from scratch somewhere else. And we go to Spokane. And while we're in Spokane I remember this clearly it was a Saturday evening we were up in Coeur d'Alene actually we went up to go check that out and we were jogging and Bianca had listened to Tyler's podcast and she's like you got to listen to this, it's a great.
Speaker 2:Like they're, it's crazy, they're lives. Like I think she had listened to his and Morgan's and stuff, and so she's like that's amazing. And so I was like, oh, I'm listening. And so I think my phone was dead and so we had one earbud in bud in each ear or something like that as we were jogging because, like, I couldn't listen on my phone. So she's like let's go for a jog, I'm listening to his podcast. And as I'm listening, like I feel like paul on the road to damascus because I am, I feel, completely exposed.
Speaker 2:I and that week we were there for three or four days, we finished his podcast and I'm full of shame, like I was just like exposed and Bianca had no clue, but in my eyes I was exposed. And the big thing, too, is that we were talking about buying houses. So we're in Spokane and we're taking a look at houses and in my mind I'm like I don't want to buy a house with Bianca until she knows the extent of my mess, cause there are things that I haven't told her and there are things that I don't know how she'll respond, you know, with, with and lust and things like that. That like, when she hears I, she might want out and I and if that's what she chooses, okay, like, but I don't, you know. And I'm like thinking about these things and when I hear tyler's podcast, I'm like even more, just like I feel crushed.
Speaker 2:I felt so crushed it wasn't good news I it's like I wanted, like I knew wasn't good news. It's like I wanted, like I knew there was good news there, but the road to that good news was depressing, because in my mind I'm like I have to tell Bianca and I don't know. Because in my mind I'm like she's not going to take this. There's no way she is not going to take this. She's going to want out Like I know her, I know how how much like I saw it as dependent.
Speaker 2:I felt like she was dependent on me. And so to hear that me who's, you know who she's supposed to like, you know love and need in this life and who she thought I loved and all the stuff for me to to reveal this to her is going to, she's going to say no, and so we get back from Spokane and I'm just like, kind of just, I don't know what to say, I'm quiet that week, I don't know how to respond. And then a week later, like God, by God's grace, she goes off to a health summit and while she's gone she's like, hey, god, by God's grace, she goes off to a health summit and while she's gone she's like, hey, join internet church. It's happening, and I think she had joined one of them and she was like you should tune in and so like we can go, you know, since we had no other way, nothing else to do that evening. So I joined in and you know, I was just praying to God about the whole thing with with tyler's party, I think it got to morgan's, and I'm like, wow, god, you could really do this.
Speaker 2:And then we talk and that evening, you know, is after party. You're like, hey, so what's your story? I don't know if you remember me showing up there I don't you don't I?
Speaker 1:I sounds like saying what's your story to you, though, or to somebody yeah.
Speaker 2:You were like hey, who are you? And man, it was funny because that evening I was coming guess where I was coming home from Church Spending the night at the church.
Speaker 2:I was doing something at church. I think I do remember that. You remember that, yeah. And so you asked me you're like hey, are you, what's your relationship with sin? And I was offended by that. You know, I'm over here and I'm like dude, I am an advocate for the gospel, for God's love. Like you don't know me, you don't know this and your little question is a little riddle just to get me riled up or something. But when you asked that question, I was like I forgot how I responded, but I just remember after I got off the call that evening and I was sitting with it, I was talking to God about it and he was just like I was in the shower I remember this specifically and God just told me.
Speaker 2:He was like Brian, you need to understand something. And he just told me like who I was and and the fact that it wasn't based on anything that I've done, that I could actually do what I've done a million times over and that wouldn't make me more worthy. It wouldn't change. Like it wouldn't change anything. Like in his eyes, I was his child because of christ. Like that was it. It was like like there's no progress, there's no up or down. Less value, love like that's how I was seeing my life right. There were some people with more value and I'm over here and I'm trying to be valuable and build this and god was was just like dude, like that's all.
Speaker 1:He's like chill out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you could hear. You know you can go on the Dusty Boys and hear my story about the dishes that God shared that night, but I, just I. Woke up the next morning, I knew who I was.
Speaker 1:So it's that thought that there's nothing you could do, yeah, and then you realized that you didn't understand that before.
Speaker 2:It was just like it was, like it was right into my veins. It's like it's hit my brain before and I've told friends and I'm like I've literally preached, that nothing you do can make God love you more, nothing you do can make God love you less. Like I've preached those exact words. But it was God, just me, with him being like dude, this is for you, like you're free from sin. And my verse for that year, for last year, was Galatians 2.20. And my verse for that year for last year was Galatians 2.20.
Speaker 2:And that was what came to my mind when I was in that time. I was like it's not based off anything that you've done, it's completely by faith. And God was essentially extending me, like are you going to believe it? Like are you going to use that faith that you have and to believe that it is, that you are righteous because I've said so? And I woke up next morning I was like, okay, that's who I am. And it was like right, once I confessed that, like once I like I didn't have anyone to sit down with and talk about this with at the time.
Speaker 2:Later, you know, like I shared with Bianca that like a hit and stuff, and and the big thing, as I was being listening to podcasts from then on was just I realized that God was telling me that, like I had been living the lie of affirmation, you know, of needing affirmation, and the lust and things like that were all just built on lies.
Speaker 2:And so I surrendered it to him and I sat down with Bianca and I had a heart to heart. I said, hey, love, this is everything that's been going on. You know, we were talking about buying a house. I want you to know this. And I was just amazed, because she just said I I know that you are forgiven, and I was saying things that I thought never would ever come out, that I could never talk about, that. I should never, ever say that anyone. If you were to ask like, hey, should you tell your wife that you've done this before or had these, I'd be like no, and I was just like do you still love me, do you still want me? And she was just she. Like all I could say is the Holy Spirit was there.
Speaker 1:I was watching this movie last night and I kind of recommend it and I kind of don't. It's called. It's called beautiful boy and it's about have you seen it?
Speaker 2:I've read the book.
Speaker 1:You read both of them Cause one's by the dad and the other one's by the son.
Speaker 2:I've read the one by the father.
Speaker 1:Okay. So there's this one part where he's at a, uh, a meeting I don't know if it's Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotic Anonymous and, uh, they're asking him like what changed? And he said I was, uh, I was ODing and I'd gone to the hospital. And some guy was like what is even your problem? And he said, well, I'm an alcoholic and I'm addicted to meth. And he said, no, that's not your problem, that's how you're trying to solve your problem. What's your actual problem? And he realized, oh, I've been trying to fill a hole and the way I've been doing it is by this and that. And I thought that was so powerful.
Speaker 1:The key to changing any habit like we're talking about pornography, we're talking about overeating, we're talking about anger is to understand that we usually go to it when we're trying to regulate emotions and I think people with ADHD got more of them, I got more emotions than the next guy and when you realize, oh, I'm trying to regulate this emotion of not being loved, not being wanted, not being accepted you know, from not being able to speak Romanian to the stuff with the girls falling apart, to then the shame of the pornography which leads to more pornography, and then hearing Tyler say, oh, it was affirmation. And then you're actually being able to tell your wife all these things. Maybe we still have the habit because our brain works that way, but then regulating our emotions is how we don't go back to that habit and how we actually, when the emotion comes, we can now change the way we think about it.
Speaker 2:Right, and that was a big thing because I I like hearing that the difference in the flesh versus the spirit, where I was like, oh, like this, the flesh is dead and I I choose to live by the spirit. And it was like there are habits of the flesh and there are mindsets and solutions and things like that, like you're saying, of the flesh that I've been accustomed to for 27 years of my life, and so that does not mean that I'm not in the spirit, and so it's ultimately, like I said, like growing in the spirit is ultimately just a everyday acknowledgement of I am who you say I am, regardless of the circumstances, regardless of what happened yesterday or a week ago or two weeks ago or five months ago or anything like that, or a minute ago. It's like I don't allow temptation to speak, or even things I've done, to speak over my life, to just be like you know what I am who you say I am Father, because my worth is not established by like. On the good days I don't have the ability to be like, yeah, I'm feeling great because I did today. Today was a good day. I didn't do those things I wanted to do. It was all like it was just surrendering. That. That's not how I'm going to live my life. I can't let my life be ruled by that. Because of what? Because this is what Jesus said and that's the life that he's made me for.
Speaker 2:And after, like after that, I realized that, you know, we had, we had a few months where it was, it was hard on our marriage. You know, it wasn't like oh, you hear that and everything was just moved right on. You know there were definitely like okay, how do we navigate some of this hurt? How do we avoid? You know, there were triggers, there were things like that that just that were challenging to work through. And even then, you know, there were some parts of me that felt like it hadn't really clicked Because, like that big question, like that big thing, I told you, like I felt still into some extent. I was like, okay, do I still like love Bianca? Like, do I have that love innately within me? And it wasn't until the beginning of this year where, like that became something that I also confessed. It was like end of last year's my, I confess I was like lord, this is who I am. I love bianca, and anything that says otherwise is not of is not. And when I confessed that and I believed it, like there wasn't a like all right, I'm gonna show her love, I'm gonna buy her flowers so she feels loved and eventually I'll like actually feel like this is great.
Speaker 2:Like I did not like like two years ago, I did not like spending time alone with Bianca, like I wouldn't have thought that was a great time, like as depressing and sad as that sounds. But at the beginning of this year, like after believing that, I remember I was hanging out with her. I think we went snowboarding and it was Bianca's like first time and so everyone else was out on the mountain and any other time, like we've done some of this before, I would be resentful, cause I'm like all my buddies are out there and I want to go have fun with them and I'm stuck here with my wife, like I wish she would be better, like that was in my mind and I could put on the best smile and just be like, oh, happy here, love. But uh, and that day I was just I didn't recognize till the end of the day and I was like, wait a second, I had a blast, I was at, I was in perfect peace, I I I'd even think about like wanting to run off or doing that Like she asked me.
Speaker 2:She was like oh, do you want? I'm like, no, I'm perfect, I'm so happy to just be here with you. And just over the past few months, man, I could go on and on and on about how God has just been teaching me and showing me things that I would have never said yes to before, things that I was. You know just that I couldn't have believed about myself or about our marriage, and just seeing how God has worked, like I am so immensely at peace, not because of anything I've done, but just because the truth.
Speaker 1:So if we go back to that heartbroken kid who drove to Burbank and you get to put your arm around this guy, what would you tell him?
Speaker 2:I would tell him he doesn't need to be who he thinks he needs to be, that he is perfectly loved, accepted, righteous, he is fine and just the best kid ever. Just because he's just the way he is, you know, just life. He doesn't need to try. There's no obligation to to be somebody, to have something to to, to solve the problems. That it's already been taken care of.
Speaker 1:Michael, or as I affectionately call you, big B, you're a testimony to us. We love seeing you on Internet Church. It was awesome meeting you and Bianca, and you guys are powerful ministers of the gospel, so thank you for sharing this with us. And yeah, man, you're a blessing.
Speaker 2:Thank you, Rich. You've been a blessing to me as well. Man, Thank you so much for the ministry and just not hesitating to share the gospel.
Speaker 1:Amen.
Speaker 2:It's changing lives.
Speaker 1:We're going to keep doing it right. We ain't stopping.
Speaker 2:Let's go.
Speaker 1:Let's go.