Fresh Leaf Forever
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Fresh Leaf Forever
Sleep Better, Live Better
Unlock the secrets to a healthier, more restful life with Dr. Tamizh Selvi, an experienced obstetrician and gynecologist from Tamil Nadu, India.
With sleep deprivation becoming an increasingly alarming trend, understanding the nuances of our sleep cycles has never been more crucial.
Our guest takes us on a fascinating journey through the complexities of sleep cycles, explaining how non-REM and REM(Rapid Eye Movement) stages are essential for our physical and mental well-being.
Discover the critical importance of achieving complete sleep cycles and why a consistent sleep schedule is vital for maintaining your body's natural circadian rhythm.
You probably wonder why you feel so vibrant and energized after certain nights when you get uninterrupted sleep.
In this episode, we unravel the mysteries of REM sleep's role in memory reorganization, emotional balance, creativity, and learning.
Dr. Selvi sheds light on the stark differences between REM and non-REM sleep attributes and how disruptions in these cycles can lead to long-term health issues. Learn how your individual chronotype affects your sleep patterns and why sticking to a regular sleep schedule can significantly enhance your daily performance.
Enhance your sleep quality with practical tips from this chat, including the optimal timing for coffee and alcohol consumption to avoid disrupting your rest.
We delve into the adverse effects of caffeine and alcohol on sleep, the dangers of insomnia, and its impact on mental and cardiovascular health. Be sure to catch the video chat on Youtube and post questions there for our guest to respond. Don't miss this insightful episode that promises to transform your understanding of "sleep better, live better"!
DISCLAIMER: THIS PODCAST IS FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY. PLEASE CONSULT YOUR PHYSICIAN PERSONALLY FOR CASE BY CASE NEEDS.
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We all are very happy when we get a good night's sleep. Why? Because sleep is such a cornerstone to us feeling very healthy and leading a robust life. Dr Tamizh Selvi from Tamil Nadu, india, has done several presentations on human sleep in many different forums. She is here today with us to walk us through the different facets of human sleep, just so we can learn and take away a nugget or two for us to incorporate it in our own lives. Let's get to the episode. Hey folks, welcome to another episode on podcast Freshly Forever. Today we have here with us the wonderful Dr Tamar Selvi from Erode, tamil Nadu, india. She is a consultant obstetrician gynecologist practicing out of Vishalam Hospital. She owns that clinic and she has special interests in sleep science, mental health, restricted eating and longevity. She is also a proponent of very healthy eating and has, to her credit, some healthy snack production as well, satvam. So it's with great joy that I welcome Dr Tamar Selvi here to podcast Freshly Forever. Hey, dr Tamar Selvi, how are you today? Oh, I'm very fine.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:I'm so glad to be with you today and this is a very important topic you have selected and I feel privileged to present my knowledge to you and make people aware about the importance of human sleep.
Vai Kumar:Thank you so much for introducing me. That's wonderful, thank you. We all live in a day and age where immediacy takes precedence over everything else, right? So, in whatever we do, given this scenario, I think sleep is something which is very, very compromised, and I'm just so thrilled to discuss this topic with you. Why don't you start us off by highlighting the need for good sleep, one of the most neglected part of health is sleep nowadays.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:So we all should agree on that, right from teenage, even before that. Nowadays, the current trend people, they tend to sleep very less, at least one to two hours less by what our ancestors and seniors were doing here. So this is a very important impact on the health, both physical, mental and emotional health. So I think we should be aware of this and this is the right time we talk about sleep and follow a perfect sleep hygiene to improve our mental and physical health.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:We are talking about human sleep today. Different species have different patterns of sleep, so we're going to focus on human sleep.
Vai Kumar:What, then, would you say? Are there any age-related variations in terms of how much we all need sleep, say, for babies what is it for adults and what is it for teenagers? I'm sure there is some pattern right. There's some suggested guidelines.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Actually the normal at 15 to 25 years. Like adolescents group we need around 8 to 11 hours of sleep. They can sleep a little longer, actually 8 to 11 hours. This is adolescent group 15 to 25 and the babies they can sleep up to 18 hours. The newborn babies and the two. Fragmented sleep is a pattern in the babies, so that is for the babies.
Vai Kumar:And 8 to 11 hours is for preteens, our age group, that is the normal adult age group from 25 to say 50, 7 to 8 hours of sleep is optimal.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:That is what we should aim for and over 50, we take it as little old age and those people they tend to sleep less than six hours because of natural decline in the hormone melatonin, so we will talk about that later. Mainly, the normal healthy adult sleep is seven to nine hours.
Vai Kumar:Okay, so you said fragmented sleep in babies, and then the differences in adults, and then as we progress into the stage of being a senior, it becomes even more. You know the needs are different, right? Are there like different stages in which we sleep during a particular night? Say for us to say we really got good rest in a particular night. Are there like stages in sleep, and what are the different components that make up our sleep cycle?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:this is a very fascinating phenomenon that is occurring in the human sleep and you will not believe like how much magic is happening when we sleep. So our brain, we think it is resting, but it is not so. It is functioning so beautifully without our knowledge. It is doing its work so phenomenally and we get up refreshed, following that particular sleep cycle. So what is the sleep cycle? Technically speaking, there are major two components, depending upon the EEG waveforms. So one is non-REM sleep, non-rem sleep. The second variety is REM sleep. So REM R-E-M rapid eye movement sleep, non-rem is non-rapid eye movement sleep. So during the night, as soon as we close our eyes and we just go to slumber, what immediately happens is we go to a deep state of sleep, that is, immediately we go to the non-REM sleep. So that is the initial part of sleep. The first half of our sleep duration is almost occupied by the non-REM sleep and the next half of the sleep that is towards wakening up. From the middle part of the night towards wakening up. We tend to follow the non-REM sleep pattern.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:But these two varieties, they actually alternate with each other. It is not like strictly the first half is non-REM and the second half is REM. We actually alternate with these cycles First non-REM and then REM, then non-REM REM, non-rem REM Like that. Each cycle is lasting for around 90 minutes. One cycle of REM and non-REM will last for 90 minutes. So in a duration of seven to nine hours we have to have at least four to five cycles of complete REM and non-REM for us to wake up fresh and do our duties in the daytime, perfectly Like wherever we put a block in the REM or non-REM sleep and we disrupt the cycle somewhere as we get up in the morning we may do our work, but not very productively not as we expect.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:So our energy will be definitely down and our performance will be definitely downsized.
Vai Kumar:So what I mean to say is this 90 minutes of.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:REM and non-REM cycle. They keep alternating and in night sleep we should have at least four to five cycles of this REM and non-REM occurring for us to have a complete, refreshing sleep.
Vai Kumar:Okay, perfect, but is it very structured? Does every individual have non-REM, then followed by REM, non-rem followed by REM? Or how is it that any disruption even happens when we say I did not sleep well last night, so what actually has occurred?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:This is interesting, actually, in the middle of the night. Suppose you wake up, you do any nature's call like you want to pass urine or something, or you get a dream. You wake up, somebody knocks the door, some cell phone rings, you wake up. So whatever happens that cycle is disrupted at that time.
Vai Kumar:It is possible that we can go back to sleep within, say, 15 to 20 minutes.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:If you go back to sleep, then the cycle will not be considered as disrupted 15 to 20 minutes.
Vai Kumar:If you go back to sleep, then the cycle will not be considered as disruptive.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Suppose you are not able to sleep for more than 30 minutes in the middle of the night you get up and you are not able to go to slumber again. That time the sleep is definitely disrupted. The cycle is said to be disrupted and you are not following the typical pattern. You are breaking the cycle somewhere in the night and early morning when you get up with an alarm, like, say, 3, 4 o'clock. You keep an alarm and you get up with this blaring alarm you suddenly get up.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:That is not nature actually we are getting up artificially with some alarm. So in that case, what happens? The?
Vai Kumar:REM sleep is actually occurring close to awakening.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:It is 1 to 2 hours. Very close to the wake-up time. We have the REM sleep. That is very, very, very important for refreshing wake-up, so you get up early. Set an alarm to wake up one or two hours earlier than you usually get up. That will disrupt your REM sleep and definitely is going to have profound effects on your daytime performance.
Vai Kumar:Okay, very well said. What about the characteristics of each of these? Say non-REM and REM? What attributes does a REM sleep, non-rem sleep cover? Because we all consider sleep to be a rest and rejuvenating mechanism, right? So what are the attributes that really happen when we say we are in a non-REM cycle? Sometimes I think when I sleep I tend to remember whatever happened during the day. So is that something? Is there a connection to whatever happens during a non-REM? And then, once you cover that, we'll just get to the other kind of sleep pattern the REM cycle.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Okay, let's say like the non-REM sleep, what all is happening in the brain during the non-REM sleep? Actually you know that is the initial part of the sleep, is the initial half of the night, so the events occurring are whatever memory we store in the daytime is deeply stored within the brain cells during this non-REM sleep and the memory is consolidated and the memories become strong, intensified and they are stored deeply in the brain cells and there is also learning of detailed information, whatever we learned in the daytime.
Vai Kumar:That learning becomes more detailed during the non-REM sleep and whatever we learn so that is a part there is also learning of fine motor skills which is happening within the non-dream sleep.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Fine motor skills like writing, like painting, any art form, whatever we do. The fine motor skills, they are actually fine tuning during the non-dream sleep and also there are memory relay is happening, which is whatever memory we form in the daytime is the recent memory is relayed to the. Whatever memory we form in the daytime, the recent, memory is relayed to the prefrontal cortex of the brain.
Vai Kumar:And this memory is becoming more intensified.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:This is all happening in the non-dream sleep and there are also some neurochemicals which are released in the non-dream sleep and we said it is a very deep sleep, so there is abundant release of serotonin which is a hormone which is known for its stillness and serenity, so that hormone is profoundly seen during the non-REP sleep.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:And also there is some noradrenaline, citabolin and dopamine hormones, but mostly serotonin is the hormone which is produced during the non-REP sleep and also the brain cells are completely washed off, the toxins and the neurotoxins which naturally we produce toxins as the cell works, no, so those toxins are all completely washed off during the non-REM sleep. So these are all the things happening during the non-REM sleep and during the REM sleep also, we said, this covers the second half of the night, so, especially two hours before waking up.
Vai Kumar:There is rapid horizontal eye movements.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Though the eyelids are closed, the eyeballs tend to move fast and there is voluntary muscle paralysis happening in this period. So what is it called Voluntary muscle paralysis? Muscles are paralyzed. Suppose dreams are a major part of this REM sleep. It is a healthy part of sleeping. Actually, we should get dreams. That is a healthy part of the sleep. So whatever dreams we get, we don't act on the dreams. That is also normal. We get the dreams we feel panicky. We dream like running panicking, like forgetting something, missing a train or something missing a train or something. So that time we don't act out our dreams, we just lay in our bed. That is because voluntary muscles are paralyzed and since our muscles are paralyzed, we are not able to move our body, though our mind is racing. So that is one part of non-REM sleep. This is very healthy actually, and most of the dreams are non-recollectible.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:That is also a common occurrence during the REM sleep and whatever memory that is formed during the non-REM sleep, this is actually dissociated, reorganized, refreshed and they are reconnected so that bad memories, the unwanted memories, are pushed back, the wanted memories are put forth. So this is happening during the REM sleep. See how important it is, because REM sleep just before wake up, we are having more of REM sleep.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:This is nature's phenomenon of giving us good memories and filtering the bad ones, and sometimes we sleep in the night with some annoying problems, like we won't have any solution. What is this? I'm not able to solve?
Vai Kumar:that analogy.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:If you have a restful sleep and you wake up in the morning, sometimes just like that, you have a magical solution Without even thinking. That is because of the REM sleep. If you have a proper REM sleep, that magical solution can be brought up. These are all things happening during the REM sleep. And also the emotions are smoothened out. Actually, suppose you have difficult emotions while going to bed, something difficult you are facing, so the edges of the emotions are smoothened out and that becomes manageable when you get up. Edges of the emotions are smoothened out and that becomes manageable when you get up. And also anxiety, fear, panic, which are all the features of amygdala response, they are smoothened during the REM sleep.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:This is how I mean. It's a very healthy part of sleep and it's also improved creativity is occurring during the REM sleep and also learning of new things we are doing without our knowledge, and there is also improved performance in the following day. These are all with healthy REM sleep. So many things are happening.
Vai Kumar:Does it stand that REM is more beneficial than non-REM sleep?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Yes, true, true, rem is more beneficial than non-REM. It is very important actually.
Vai Kumar:Okay. Is there any chance one may have more of a REM cycle than non-REM cycle during a particular night, say during a non-REM cycle if I'm disturbed, does it mean that, okay, that night, even if the non-REM is disturbed and I'm more in a REM cycle, sleep that I would still be feeling fine the next morning? Yeah maybe there everything is overlapping.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:It's not strictly this minute, that minute and all that, but uninterrupted sleep where you have this very healthy pattern of the cycle going on. Sometimes we get disturbed. We have to be disturbed sometimes, so that is unavoidable, but still there is a difference. If you have a healthy sleep, the following day will be definitely magnificent.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Okay, you will feel so energetic and like double power to do it if you have a sleep deprivation even for one night, the following day we will definitely be powerless and irritable, and all that so we will be able to do the work, but still the efficiency will be definitely affected.
Vai Kumar:And doctors often tend to say okay, if you are not sleeping good, there is definitely going to be a disruption to your health over a period of time. So does it have any correlation to one particular sleep cycle being impacted, meaning whether non-REM constantly being impacted or REM being constantly impacted? Does research indicate anything like that or it just doesn't matter? Irrespective of sleep cycle, if you're not feeling well rested for prolonged periods of time, meaning for several days, that automatically it takes a toll on your body.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Yeah, actually there are certain disease patterns, nightmares, we have a profound deterioration of non-REM sleep, and alcoholism and excess caffeine intake will have disruption of REM sleep. So, like that, there are some insomnias which are typically affecting the REM and non-REM, but commonly we speak about insomnia, that's it.
Vai Kumar:Okay, and what about some of us? I don't know about you, but I'm like slightly late to bed, but then again I'm not like a very early bird all the time, although sometimes, if there is a need, I can definitely get myself up and running. So you may sleep early, I may sleep late, we may wake up at different times. Why is it that different people follow like different pattern, although it's recommended that we all shut lights out by like 10 and wake up like nice and bright and early in the morning, right, say, 5.30, 6.00. So does this have any correlation? Do some of us fall into certain types and do others fall into a different bucket? Is that why we are doing it differently?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Actually, there are two types. One is like we sleep early, the people who sleep early and get up early, people who sleep late and get up late in the morning. These are called chronotype. That is, you are basically built to do that way. You don't have to adhere to what other people are following.
Vai Kumar:Whatever is your pattern, nothing wrong in adhering to it.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Actually, you can be a morning person or an evening person and you can follow your chronotype. Nothing wrong, that is basically what, what you are, but you have to follow a strict schedule, like even on weekends, follow a similar schedule. You go to bed late, get up late. Not one day like this, one day like that, so that you have a confusion in the circadian clock which is inside our body so it's important that we follow that pattern and not just the pattern.
Vai Kumar:We also have to kind of adhere to the guidelines of seven to nine hours of sleep, or whatever that may be, depending on the age group, correct?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:yes, yeah, depending on the age group, we can adhere to the number of hours, but early or late depends on your chronotype, so you can very well, follow your chronotype nothing wrong, some people six to seven hours is optimal for them. So they are genetically wired to sleep for 6 to 7 hours only, so that is also okay. That is a window period. Actually, less than 6 hours is only abnormal, so 6 to 7 hours is also normal for people.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:They are poor sleepers and they can function very well, with that amount of sleep, that is also okay.
Vai Kumar:What, then, about any organ? Just like we all rest and recover? Right? You talked about the nicer aspects in terms of us recollecting, getting more creative and things like that. What about any organ detoxification or anything that might be happening at night when we sleep? So that is the whole rest and recovery process, right? If we all sleep at different times and wake up at different times, do you think any of that is getting impacted? You're asking about the diseases. Like we don't sleep Even. That, say, there is detoxification of pancreas, there's detoxification of organs, things like that. So if we all sleep at different times based on our chronotype, can our body adjust by itself? Or do you think there is potential for us to give ourselves room to catch some diseases if we are not following certain pattern?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Yeah, this chronotype, we don't have to bother, Only the number of hours which we sleep. The quality and the quantity of sleep is very important, Like 7 to 9 hours, maybe 7 to 9 hours uninterrupted sleep in the night. That is what we are aiming for. If we have that continuous sleep, then systems will be functioning very well. All the physical and the mental system can be functioning very well without any hitches. Suppose, if we chronically get sleep deprived I mean less than six hours for more than six months then we'll have a profound effect on the various systems of our body.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:You will be like amazed to find all the systems are getting affected with chronic sleep deprivation Not once or twice, but chronic sleep deprivation. I'm talking about regular sleep deprivation.
Vai Kumar:Okay, and you brought up already the circadian rhythm, the circadian clock. We often hear that going against the body clock is not advisable. Can you talk about the triggers of the circadian rhythm, the triggers of the circadian clock?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Circadian clock is the biological clock that is fit inside our body. It keeps ticking all the 24 hours and there are hormones which influences the circadian clock and wakefulness hormone and sleep hormone. So they are divided into wakefulness hormone and sleep hormone. Wakefulness hormones they start pouring in once we wake up from the sleep. They are adenosine, cortisol and noradrenaline. These are all the wakefulness hormones and the sleep hormone is only one hormone. So these are the main influences of circadian clock.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Whatever we do is based on these hormone outputs. Whatever we do we wake up, exercise, be in the sunlight, take coffee, alcohol, the food intake everything influences these hormones. They make these hormones come from the cells and then they add to produce wakefulness and then sleep in the night. These are all the main influences of circadian clock, adenosine, cortisol, noradrenaline and the night hormone melatonin.
Vai Kumar:Okay, the night hormone? Okay. In other words, it is best that we honor our body's clock and follow this pattern that you suggested earlier. Whatever be your chronotype, follow going to bed at a certain time, wake up at a certain time, be it weekday, weekend, whatever. That may be right. So, just so, all these processes that you mentioned, all the release of these hormones that are occurring throughout the 24 hours in a day, it's not disturbed. Is that a correct understanding? Yes, perfect. What about temperature influence on sleep? I think some of us like it cold, some of us like it hot, and women during the age of transition from perimenopause into menopause? That seems to be another story. How would you address temperature influence on sleep?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Yeah, temperature is the most important and the strongest influencer of the circadian clock. So this is the strongest trigger for the circadian clock. What happens we have? We talk about two temperatures. One is the core, body temperature which is within our body, the next one is the external temperature.
Vai Kumar:So, both have to be in a different, in a particular way.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:So that we wake up and we sleep so early morning by around 4 to 5 am.
Vai Kumar:this wakefulness hormone, adenosine, is going to be profoundly increased in the system.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:It's going to abundantly pour into the system naturally and our body temperature raises by around 1 to 2 degrees Celsius at that time. The increase in the core body temperature happens at around 5 am in the morning. So we have to get up. That is one strongest trigger for us to wake up. So if we observe that, we will definitely wake up. That is one strongest trigger for us to wake up. So if we observe that, we will definitely wake up. That is why, without anything, we can wake up at around 4 to 5 am. That is, the core body temperature rising is the natural trigger for the wakefulness hormone and we wake up at that time. And as night falls, after like 7 pm in the night, the core body temperature falls by around 1 degree Celsius and melatonin hormone is made to secrete in the body, in the brain. So the melatonin hormone takes over the wakefulness of the adenosine cortisol, everything and then the sleep ensures. Actually this is the normal pattern which is occurring in the body sleeping To initiate sleep and to maintain the proper sleep around 18 to 18.3 degrees Celsius sleep and to maintain the proper sleep around 18 to 18.3 degrees Celsius.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:The science says that we have to have a room temperature ideally at 18 to 18.3 degrees Celsius for initiating and maintaining a healthy sleep. That is during the night. As soon as you get up, the normal temperature rises and you have to have a cold shower. The cold shower just for a few minutes. In the cold shower your core body tends to, your body temperature tends to rise further and this will have more increase in the body temperature and more wakefulness. So it is good to have a cold shower as soon as you get up and by nightfall, before going to sleep, you can have a warm shower. That decreases the body temperature. Actually paradoxical, but it does.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:It decreases the body temperature and helps the melatonin secretion Warm shower before sleeping and a cold shower soon after waking.
Vai Kumar:Oh, that's a great tip right there, because no one would fathom that the warm helps you sleep and the cold helps you wake up. So I guess I think once your core body temperature is set to like a normal pattern for you to function optimally, I think that also triggers your digestive fire and everything else, so you can potentially have like a great start to your day. That's wonderful. Yeah, great tips right there. We'll take a little break and we'll cover the rest of it when we get right back. So we discussed about the circadian clock and the temperature influence. Right, so you said 18.3 Celsius, so about 65 to 68 Fahrenheit for listeners used to the Fahrenheit measure. What about the role of sunlight and also the time when we wake up? So we all say the morning sun is beneficial and the going down sun is beneficial. So what about us exposing ourselves to sunlight and how does it influence our body clock?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:So the sunlight, early morning sun, we begin to expose to the morning sun for around 35 to 45 minutes in the bright sun.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:This will actually the sunlight will reflect to trigger the cells of the retina in the eyeball and these cells will again go back to the brain cells, trigger the brain cells again to produce more of the adenosine hormone. So the wakefulness hormone is profoundly outpouring when we get exposed to the sun. So that is what is happening in the early morning sunlight. That is around that orange, yellow, red, blue, white spectrum of light. So that activates the adenosine and that in turn activates the neural cells, brain neurons, and they become a beautiful firework happening within the brain. And you have to allow that firework to happen for every day so that you get more of wakefulness and become more alert and more refreshed by getting exposed to the sound, Even if the weather is cloudy. A little longer exposure, like around one hour, is enough to do this job. And please don't wear sunglasses because it will block the rays coming onto the retina, so don't wear a sunglass while you're going for walking, and also the power glass.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:If you're already wearing a power glass, that will help you focus the sunlight on the retina.
Vai Kumar:So that is better.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Actually, you are wearing a constant power glass short sight one. So that is is good. You can wear the power glass but no sunglasses.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:So that is about the morning sunlight and you do exercise along with sunlight. It will even more activate the wakefulness hormone and it will make you more refreshed. And about the evening sun, the falling sun, this also has the same spectrum of color, like orange, yellow, red and mild blue and white spectrum. So what? The same color like the morning sun, but this will have an opposite effect on the brain cells, it will again go and reflect on the retina and that will trigger the brain cells to produce melatonin in the evening. So after the sunset.
Vai Kumar:The same sunlight makes your body to produce more of melatonin in the evening, so after the sunset.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:The same sunlight makes your body to produce more of melatonin, so this is the natural thing happening when you view the evening sunlight for around 10 to 15 minutes at the time of sunset, it is very good for improving your sleep. It will make your melatonin more secreted in your body, so you are gadget oriented, you can make more gadgets. It is better to view the evening sunlight also for around 10 to 15 minutes so that you negate the bad effect of the blue light.
Vai Kumar:Okay, that's wonderful to know how the light on the retina influences both us being more receptive to what happens in the day, in terms of waking up more and be more active, and also how we, how it brings back our system down in the evening in terms of melatonin secretion. What about lifestyle aspects? And you also touched upon the effect of blue light. So when people are exposed to so much of light, blue light, you are saying getting out and exposing yourself to the evening sun is more beneficial, right?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Yes, actually the blue and white light is supposed to activate your brain. Early morning, as soon as you get up, you have a cold shower and switch on all the white, bright lights and blue lights in your house. That will help you even before going to the sunlight for exercising. You can switch on all the white lights in your house. That will have a very good effect on the wakefulness hormones. That is one thing that clearly says the white and blue spectrum of light is activating your brain. The same thing is happening when you get exposed to the gadgets like TV, computer, laptop, mobile phones. That is detrimental to the sleep. Actually, the melatonin is hampered with that.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:So while going to bed that is at least one to two hours before going to bed. Stop all these gadgets and move all these gadgets away from your bedroom. Bed is only for like sleep. You don't have these gadgets in the bedroom. Even if they are switched off, they tend to emit the light, so they have profound incapacity on the melatonin secretion. So this will clearly postpone your sleep and it will also have a bad effect on the quantity and quality of this nightlight setting.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Before going to bed, like one to two hours before that, you switch off all the gadgets and you switch on the yellow dim lights. Yellow dim lights are supposed to improve your sleep and produce more melatonin. So have your light settings in two modes. One is bright white, the next is an yellow dim mode. You switch on those lights in the evening time so that you get prepared for your sleep. So that is about the next.
Vai Kumar:Okay, what about lifestyle aspects like how we eat, what we do for exercise, what is the role of food, exercise and also other triggers like caffeine and alcohol in our system when it comes to how well we are able to sleep and rest? And you know, overall feel healthy, the normal food intake.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:We are supposed to adhere to the pattern of sunlight the rising sun and the falling sun. So when the sun rises, start eating. When the sun sets, stop eating. So after 6pm it is better to avoid eating anything except for drinking water. This 3-4 hours before bedtime you are clearly avoiding any food intake. This will have a very good effect on your sleep. It is going to improve your malnutrient secretion and also improve your growth hormone, which is very good for your cell repair, regeneration and all those things. This happens only when you stop eating 3 hours clearly before your sleep. So stop eating 3 hours before sleep time.
Vai Kumar:This is about the normal food.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:And so good news for coffee lovers is coffee is good. It's a very good CNS boost, so we all know it is a CNS stimulant, a 12-hour system stimulant. It is going to have a very good effect on your alertness and wakefulness. It is good. So I advise you to take coffee and a half to two hours after waking up. Clearly, avoid coffee 10 to 14 hours before your bedtime. So that is what the science says. Why one and a half to two hours after waking up? Why delay that coffee? That is because you woke up and already your adenosine cortisol is at the peak level till 8 am in the morning, around 8 am. Till that time it is already in the peak.
Vai Kumar:It is outpouring in your body on its own.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:If you take coffee soon after waking it will have a supraphysiological level of this adenosine hormone. So what does it do?
Vai Kumar:After some time this will have a competitive inhibition, competitive receptor inhibition with the adenosine receptors and scientifically it is proven that it is going to produce a caffeine crush.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:That is a mid-morning. You feel very sleepy and the effect of this caffeine is gone if you take it soon after waking up.
Vai Kumar:So you need another coffee or tea to pep up yourself If you delay your coffee for one and a half to two hours after waking this doesn't happen With one coffee or one tea.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:you can manage the whole day. You don't have to take more doses of this. Caffeine I mean coffee, tea, cocoa I mean cola, coca-cola, chocolates, everything whichever is brown in color, we should say so they are all having caffeine, not only coffee. So that is one thing.
Vai Kumar:And why avoiding coffee 10 to 14 hours before bedtime.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:That is because the effect of caffeine in the blood is going to last for 10 to 14 hours after your intake. You keep on having coffee till 2 pm, 5 pm in the evening, coffee tea. So this is going to have a profound effect on your malnutrition. It is going to block your malnutrition To avoid that at least by 11 am in the morning, 10, 11 am in the morning. If you're going to sleep at 10 pm, then avoid coffee after 10 am in the morning, 12 hours at least.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Your metabolizing capacity is only such that for 10 to 14 hours it is going to stay in your blood.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:So better, don't have that effect and avoid late hours in the morning. About alcohol alcohol is better to avoid for 10 to 12 hours before sleep. It is going to stay in the system in your blood for such a long time. So you drink in the evening and night. Definitely you are going to have a very poor sleep pattern. You might be in the bed for longer time but your sleep quality is so much disorganized your REM sleep is going to be impact purely and you're going to have a fragmented sleep and chronically, if this happens, you're going to have relationship issues like mood disturbance, irritability, psychological and all those things, even suicidal tendencies and increased risk of stroke, parkinson's disease and all diseases you're going to have because of the sleep disturbance. It's not directly because of alcohol, it is because of the sleep disturbance due to alcohol.
Vai Kumar:So if at all you want to. Consume alcohol you should be in the mornings After 10, same like coffee.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:So your blood should completely clear that from your system. So don't take it in the evening or at the night time.
Vai Kumar:Everyone tends to drink during dinner time, so that's clearly something incorrect that we all are doing. And what about insomnia? Now that we have focused so much on the quality of sleep and what makes up the sleep cycle and so much about what are all the factors that are dominant in terms of one getting a good quality sleep, I think several of us wrestle with insomnia, sleeplessness, right, and insomnia plays a great role in mental health. You are a huge proponent of mental health as well. Why don't you get us started about insomnia? Why does this happen? And also the role of insomnia and mental health.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Insomnia is defined as less than six hours of sleep every night for more than six months. So that is the definition of. We have broadly two types of insomnia. One is initiation insomnia, where you find it difficult to initiate your sleep. The next one is maintenance insomnia you sleep well but you get up middle of the night not able to sleep again. Both are not good for your health. You're going to have profound health issues not only on the mental health, but also your physical health also.
Vai Kumar:Regarding the mental health, if you have your chronic insomnia, your physical health.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Also, regarding the mental health, if you have your chronic insomnia, then you would have a decreased cognitive quotient, decreased ability to learn new things there is a 40% decreased ability to learn new things and ADHD you are more prone for ADHD and there is clearly mood changes, declined memory and there's a reward-seeking attitude.
Vai Kumar:Clinical depression suicidal thoughts, suicidal attempts and increased addiction, and there is also faster onset of Alzheimer's disease and increased risk of Parkinsonism. And stroke.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:This is about the mental health. It also has effect on the cardiovascular health. There is 200% increased risk of cardiovascular disease and heart attacks and there is increased risk of coron disease and heart attacks and there is increased risk of coronary artery calcifications and there is also risk of systemic hypertension, insomnia and road traffic accidents. This is really alarming 70% increased risk. It is more than alcoholism. Actually, sleep deprivation is more dangerous than alcoholism. Why? Because when they are driving sleep deprived people, when they are driving, they have micro sleep, tendency to micro sleep. The eyelids close for 1 to 2 seconds. That time accidents may happen. Other things they have a late reaction for vehicles approaching them. So whenever a vehicle is coming in front of them, they have a late reaction Little late reaction.
Vai Kumar:That is responsible for majority of the accidents.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:That is what science says. Clearly, there is obesity pattern occurring within soma. This is because there is an altered ratio of these hormones called ghrelin and leptin.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Ghrelin is a hunger hormone, leptin is a satiety hormone. So there is more hunger, hormone security without your knowledge, and there is more calorie intake per day 200 to 400 kilocalories are consumed more in insomnias and the brain is addicted to choose high carbohydrate, sugary, salty and fatty foods. So you lose the capacity the cortex loses the capacity to categorize the food types, so you tend to sort to these junk foods, and there is increased fat deposition and decreased lean muscle mass. So this is all proven in the science. And what about immunity? Insomnia is also decreasing your natural immunity by 70 percent and you're more prone for infection okay, and malignancy also?
Vai Kumar:does this mean then one can get autoimmune diseases from chronic insomnia?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Yes, and also there is increased risk of malignancies. Who has told that it recognizes insomnia as a probable carcinogen? This is because of the unfavorable gene modification leading to cancers of the bowel, breast and prostate, those who already have cancers and these survivors are doomed to with aggressive tumor progression because of faster replication of cancer cells. This is all due to lack of sleep.
Vai Kumar:Okay, and reproductive health especially yeah. So reproductive health. So that's also.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:In males there is a definite decrease in virility by a decade. Actually they their testosterone levels. When taken, it is equal to a man who is 10 years older to him, so he becomes aged in his reproductive capacity. What about women? This is about how is there are women? There is no such data. It is only about the relationship issues and like no disturbance and all that clear thing is, for the male only, okay.
Vai Kumar:And what about then? An optimal sleep hygiene. What would you recommend for optimal sleep hygiene? Would that? Would that be meditation? What? What other factors can help someone achieve great sleep hygiene?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:So sleep hygiene, this is the most important part of the whole podcast.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:We are doing so. You follow a regular sleep pattern. Go to bed at the same time, wake up at the same time, even at the weekends, and follow your chronotype. If you are a morning person, be it. If you are an evening person, be it. If you are an evening person, be it.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Avoid caffeine 12 to 14 hours before bedtime and 2 hours after waking. Avoid alcohol 10 to 12 hours before sleep. Pull the room temperature to 18.3 degrees Celsius. Take a warm shower before sleep and set up your lights yellow and orange lights, I mean. Change your light pattern at least one hour before sleep. Switch on these lights. Avoid eating or drinking three hours before. I mean avoid eating anything three hours before bedtime. Avoid a high carbohydrate night meal. Remove all the electronic gadgets from your bedroom, even if they are switched off. Use the same bed and pillow. Go to bed only when you are really sleepy. Be in the other room or do something else. Hear some music, read something. Hearing music and reading something from the textbook is really allowable. You go to bed only when you really feel sleepy.
Vai Kumar:Make a noise free room.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Even if there is some noise in the room, you can use a earplug also. And no looking at the clocks when you wake up in between your sleep. Suppose you get up for your nature's call. Don't look at the clocks and make your room pitch dark.
Vai Kumar:Absolutely no lights entering in your room that means no tv in the bedroom right yeah, definitely no tv, no bedroom lights.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:also no even like so switch everything, make it pitch dark and you can use iPads if you need more to cover your eyes. And that's it about the sleep hygiene.
Vai Kumar:Overall. What about the role of meditation, yoga and all of that? I think everyone tries to calm themselves down. You talked about the triggers to the central nervous system, right? How can we calm ourselves down if somebody is so hyper and they are finding difficult to stay calm? So what are some pointers that?
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:you would offer.
Vai Kumar:This is my personal experience. Actually, I had a like the tragedy happened.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:if my son died actually six years ago, I faced the worst form of grief.
Vai Kumar:I was a poor sleeper actually.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Six to seven hours is always okay, for me.
Vai Kumar:But even then I will always mind about my sleep.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:I'm not a very good sleeper. Even in my younger days, meditation really helped me. All those in my life For the past six years at least, I would say I've been on the pill, sedative tablet and all that coming on and off the drugs. But actually meditation is one thing which is really promising. It really is helping me even now. I stopped everything 6 months ago and now only with meditation I sleep very well 8 plus hours. I'm getting now never in my lifetime.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:This has occurred actually 8 plus hours. I'm getting a very nice sleep. I don't sleep in the daytime, I don't take naps. I don't rest in the daytime. I'm active as I get up in the morning. Till night I'll be the same. So this is mainly because I'm sleeping good meditation really helps. That is one thing really promising. That is my personal experience and we have many types of meditation I keep on changing.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Also, I don't follow a definite pattern. One year I'll do one, then I'll go for some other thing and I keep on changing the meditation. Everything works. So meditation is really good and in that we have progressive muscle relaxation and non-sleep depressed.
Vai Kumar:These are all available in the.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:Google and sleep hypnosis imagery and worry journal.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:This is one thing which is very good also, especially imagery and worry journal. This is one thing which is very good also, especially when you have so many intrusive thoughts in your brain, so many things running in your brain. I have this much that much to do tomorrow. I have this much that much. So you put everything in a journal. You take a diary, take a pen and write down what all you're going to do tomorrow. Just make a checklist of what you're going to do the next day. So with that, you, you finish off. Your brain is shutting off, so you are set about. This is for tomorrow. Now I'm going to sleep. That is how your brain is sorting out your sleep, and then you have a better sleep. That is about the worry journal, and another thing is gratitude journal. This is also really helping.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:So you write whatever things you are being grateful for in that day. You jot it down in a diary and that also helps you for a better sleep. So that is helping me actually. I maintain this journal and I take meditation. I stop all the trends and it's really wonderful what a profound personal story.
Vai Kumar:I think this is just extremely helpful in terms of um to me personally. I wrestle with an autoimmune condition. I'm in much better place now in terms of how I've managed it and lot of things that you have said I've personally incorporated in my life for me to be able to sleep through the night now, like a lot of exercise, how I manage my circadian clock in terms of honoring it basically not that I manage it, I turn it on, turn it off. I guess I'm honoring my circadian rhythm and my circadian clock that way. Whatever you have said, so much of improvement and a lot of meditation and you have even offered listeners variety in terms of you know, you don't have to get stuck with one form of meditation. If it's working, follow it, but if you just want variety, try different types of meditation. That's out there, but everything works. You basically said a lot of great pointers there in terms of writing out worries that way you have just put it out there, your mind is free from it and setting intentions for the next day in terms of doing both the gratitude journal and the worry journal and writing out the intentions, so one can have a very positive start the next morning. So thank you so much. I think a lot of great pointers there, and how sleep impacts mental health and why one wouldn't want to compromise on good sleep.
Vai Kumar:You have presented on human sleep in so many places, dr Tamar Selvi, and we are privileged to have had your inputs here on this podcast. So, listeners, as always, follow the podcast, rate the podcast, leave a review from your podcast app of choice, follow me on Instagram and YouTube at vaipkumar. That's V-a-i-p-k-u-m-a-r for all things digital media and lifestyle. Until next time, with yet another interesting guest and yet another interesting topic. It's me why, along with dr tamir, selby saying so long thank you.
Dr.Tamizh Selvi:It was a profound experience for me, thank you.
Vai Kumar:Thank you so much and we remind the listeners to post their questions on the youtube channel when this episode gets published. That way, we'll have dr tamil selby uh answering that as well. Thank you so much. Bye.
