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When Evil Teens Think Murder is Hilarious
When evil teens think murder is HILARIOUS...
The following podcast episode is not legal advice. Do not rely on the information in this presentation without speaking to a licensed attorney.
No one discussed in these videos has been formally diagnosed by EWU and our psychological analysis is based on the general behaviors and traits of the people discussed.
When evil teens think murder is HILARIOUS...
The following podcast episode is not legal advice. Do not rely on the information in this presentation without speaking to a licensed attorney.
No one discussed in these videos has been formally diagnosed by EWU and our psychological analysis is based on the general behaviors and traits of the people discussed.
Three doors down, so you can't ignore it.
Speaker 1:Hi, grandma, have you heard from Mom? There's like a part of me that knows I shouldn't feel bad, but I can't feel anything for it. Hey, what do?
Speaker 2:I do. I'm not gonna get a birthday or Christmas, and this owned von Lohn's whole family.
Speaker 1:Dude, I'm not even getting the word. Come on, Shh, someone's about to get fired.
Speaker 2:I'll hunt you down like Tyrannosaurus.
Speaker 3:On the afternoon of November 2nd 2018, as the Volusia County officers respond to a 911 call about a burglary, little did they know they were actually stepping into the most disturbing case Volusia County had ever seen 911,.
Speaker 4:Where's your emergency? Um, I just got home and my house is completely trashed. It looks like someone broke into the side door. Okay, how long have you been gone? I've been gone all school day. Are you there by yourself? Yeah, I'm older than 15. I need you to take a deep breath. I'm gonna ask you a few questions, okay. Okay, my mom's car. She ran on and she's not at home and she was supposed to go to work today and I can't find her.
Speaker 4:Okay, you're okay, your mom's car is there. Is there any other way she ever gets to work? Does she ever get a ride from anyone else? No, the car is on. It's turned on. The car is on and you're sure she is not there. I searched the entire place. I've been here for eight minutes and I've been working with her. I'm right here with you, okay. What's your name? My full name is Gregory Logan-Ramos. Is there anybody that has made any threats to your mom or to you? No, no, no, no.
Speaker 3:As the 911 operator is gathering information from 15-year-old Gregory, officers are arriving on the scene.
Speaker 1:Is she on the scene? Okay, okay. I copy thank you. Is she working?
Speaker 6:at an architecture firm.
Speaker 4:I don't know, though, is she normally home this time of day? No, she's probably 6'30. Okay. Does she actually leave her?
Speaker 6:work before you.
Speaker 1:She dropped me off and then she usually just heads back to the sun rail and hops in the train with her bike. Is there? Anybody else that ever goes again. My dad and my two-step siblings. Where are they?
Speaker 6:My dad is on a visit trip in Seattle. He'll be back this afternoon at 6, 6'30. Okay.
Speaker 4:And then the two-step children have their moms. Okay, but everything is gone, except for the mounted TV on my wall there's everything involved.
Speaker 3:Helping to gain some insight into this burglary, two officers take a walk through Gregory's house. To their horror and shock, the home had been trashed beyond recognition. Every part of the house has been rifled through. The bedrooms' closets are emptied out and dumped all over the floor. In the kitchen, every single cabinet was open and rifled through, including those under the sink. Glass littered the floor of the kitchen, as the burglars had taken it upon themselves to smash all the glassware.
Speaker 4:It's weird. Why is there all this crap up here spilled?
Speaker 7:There's a broken glass here. I saw this sh** broken dude.
Speaker 3:The damage around the house is more severe than a standard burglary and the officers can't help but wonder if maybe these burglars had a personal vendetta against Gregory's mother, Gale, or his family. As the officers make preparations to take 15-year-old Gregory back to the station so he can be comfortable while they process the home, One of the neighbors approaches them.
Speaker 6:Yes, sir, I do have a key to their house, but I haven't been up here since yesterday evening or after you and I spoke. I talked to his parents, okay, as I told them, this young man has a correction called Truly Bad.
Speaker 4:Has she had any issues with him lately? No, not that I know of.
Speaker 3:While processing continues at the house, gregory is taken to the station seeking comfort and support. He calls Ken Jones, his sponsor with the police explorers, a youth program that allows teens interested in law enforcement to learn the basics and help their local sheriff's office. Ken meets Gregory at the station and the two sit down for a chat in the following never-before-seen footage. It's been analyzed by a qualified team including a licensed professional counselor, a licensed attorney and a former detective, former licensed polygraph examiner and former hostage negotiation commander and instructor. While Ken helps calm Gregory down, he notices some bruises on Gregory's face. What happened here?
Speaker 6:I got into a fight yesterday with one of my friends. I didn't see that yesterday I had to make a fight. It was a conversation with my friends. We got into a disagreement but I solved the problem. I talked to Edward Hampton, we made up and he apologized for hitting me and I accepted the apology. What was his name? We hugged it out it's my friend, joe. Did that start to know about the fight?
Speaker 3:The who. That's not a good word.
Speaker 6:No, there was no fight. He just came up. He's like Greg, and I was like what? He kind of punched me. He said what the hell do you do? I didn't hit back or anything. It was just like okay, calm down, let's talk it out. Joe's last name, please, I don't know, say it's your friend. Do we often make a fight? What's his last name? Who does his last name? One of the matters, though, we made up it was just a conversation that happened to him anything too important. We talked it out, and we had to. It was like dude, I'm sorry, I made a mistake, and he was justified and I said I'm sorry for making that mistake. What time does this happen? Yesterday, well, dark of the afternoon, I saw you, like what? What time did you get out of the fair? Like up there at 7. I just seen that I put makeup on it before you came out. Yeah, I was like why did you do that? Because I didn't want to workshop it detail with scars on my face. I guess that's reasonable.
Speaker 3:The longer he chats with Ken, the more Gregory worries about his mother, Gail.
Speaker 6:You know if any of these developments have been made, if anything happened, they're going to tell you everything that goes on. But I'm trying to make sure that you are in the right, because you know when you call me you're very upset. I mean just, oh no, that situation. Okay, well, she had called me earlier. I couldn't come in earlier with David. That's why I wanted to come down here and make sure that you're okay. So I came in for a second.
Speaker 6:No matter what's happened. It's very important that, whatever it is, that you're out front not even like remember what Joe's last name is, because that's important. What we need to act upon when you tell us things is what we're going to do. I know we've got to be able to trust you.
Speaker 3:His sponsor, detective Jones, is acting like a father figure here, telling him to look at him and to be honest, in contrast, gregory is sitting cross-armed and doesn't appear comfortable. As a 15-year-old kid, he should be panicking and asking about where his mom is, and yet he's oddly calm.
Speaker 6:You know I'm not saying that. I'm telling the truth. I'm not saying for some reason you don't want to tell me Joe's name. I don't know why. Why would you want to tell me Joe's name? I'm going to go run after Kellen because he's been troubled.
Speaker 6:That's kind of like a question to make sure that you're going to be honest with. I do have my full cooperation. It's just, I don't want an unrelated incident to be thrown into the moron. Well, we may need to make sure it isn't related. We need to make sure that the people that come there hurt you too. Is that possible? No, it's not Okay. If it was, I would have voiced my concerns already. Okay, that's fair, but we don't want to make sure that you're okay. I'm fine, because these guys are going to ask you a lot of questions. They're going to be hard questions. It's going to be a lot harder than me asking what that guy's name is. Okay, not about how you put up with me. I want you to just tell them exactly what happened.
Speaker 3:I'll answer all their questions. All right, with Gregory feeling more comfortable, sergeant Pagliari begins the interview.
Speaker 6:A couple things. As you can see, I see and should keep looking at my recorder. So everything that I do, obviously, is recorded. Okay, let's just see the camera up in the same.
Speaker 3:there, gregory is read as rights. As a standard procedure In Florida, there's no requirement for a parent to be present in order to interrogate a minor. However, there is an obligation to notify a parent or legal guardian when a minor is taken into custody, which isn't the same thing as questioning. The general take on the Florida parental notification requirement is that it's good faith and the inability to make contact with a parent or guardian doesn't put a halt to any questioning. Still, it's important to note that Miranda writes apply to minors in Florida just as they do to adults. Now it's time for Sergeant Pagliari to get some background information on Gregory's mother and some recent trouble at school.
Speaker 6:How would you say your relationship is with your mom? I think everyone argues a little bit with your mom. Okay, we love each other a lot and I really hope she's okay. Have you ever been in trouble with a law before or anything? No, sir. No Okay About trouble in school? Yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:Having his sponsor in the room should make him feel much more comfortable and relaxed. Yet Gregory has his arms tightly crossed and his nonverbal communication is not in sync with his verbals, indicating he's feeling anxiety. Given the situation, this is understandable. He doesn't know where his mom is and his house has been burglarized. Still, he's very closed off.
Speaker 6:And I'm just getting back before we get into things. That's all we're trying to do here. So, like trouble at school, like how? So I'm trying to figure out what was. Last month, the guys and us and I was asked for that. What is that, sir? I assess this in school suspension. Oh, this is out of school suspension, okay, why? What happened the weekend beforehand? My friend was feeling, so I went to go. I snuck out of my house to go talk to him and I talked with him and my friend smoke cigarettes and he gave me something to take home with me. I put some of my backpack and I forgot to take them out. So when I was searched randomly at my school, they were fine.
Speaker 6:And how'd your mom feel about that? She was not happy, but we worked out a solution which was me going to do community service for my church. Okay, you talk about ups and downs in your mom's relationship, right? So that would probably be one of the downs? I would assume no, because she was justified in her anger. That was my fault, but previously my mom has done things that were not justified.
Speaker 3:You want to tell me about those I really need to know.
Speaker 6:It was just impulse, it wasn't anything serious.
Speaker 3:Gregory is making an attempt to not only be perceived as a good person by making himself look like someone who would admit it when he did something wrong, but also to control the interview when he adds all you really need to know, given the fact that he's only 15. This is all very bold.
Speaker 6:Okay, I'm not here to get you on the trouble, by the way, yeah, I know. Okay. So if you're trying to, if you think that what you're going to tell me is going to negatively affect what I think about your mother, that's not about it at all, it's just hard for me to talk about. Okay.
Speaker 3:Now that he understands Gregory a bit better, it's time for Pagliari to start creating a timeline from the day before the burglary.
Speaker 6:Who stayed at your house last night? Who was at my house last night?
Speaker 3:Yeah, Gregory repeats the question before answering, which gives him a pause to think about what exactly he wants to say. The reason this is a red flag is because the question is simple and straightforward and not a complex question that requires a lot of thought.
Speaker 6:Me and my mother. Okay, all right. Now Detective Jones was talking to you and I was again listening. You were at a fair or something. Yesterday I was working parking detail for the Orange City Police Explorers. I was helping park cars at the Fulgish County Fair. Do you know what's anything? What was that? 847 maybe or something specific. That's just a time. I remember, probably from looking at my phone. The thing with the the tariff detail ended early. I was supposed to go until nine, but I think it ended too early and so I got home around closer to nine. So, yeah, mom was home. Yeah, okay, and you guys, when you got home, conversation with mom, that's how your day was anything. Yeah, how'd that go? Good, okay, we talked to each other. What did you guys have for dinner? I don't remember. You don't remember what you had. No, must not have been very eventful. No, it was just like a rip in the night.
Speaker 3:There's a slight upward inflection when Gregory answers good. This often indicates a bit of uncertainty.
Speaker 6:When you got home conversation with mom, that's how your day was anything yeah.
Speaker 3:How'd that go Good? The rest of Gregory's answers are also short and vague, but, most interestingly, he also seems to be emphasizing that last night was, as he said, just like every other night. All of this together seems to suggest the opposite of what Gregory is saying, and something about last night was not good or like every other.
Speaker 6:So mom doesn't make good food. There seems to mean dinner's never eventful. No, like you're telling me. I know, because when I find her and tell her I'm gonna say listen, greg said dinner's never eventful. You think she's gonna get upset with me or upset with you? You said that. I hear me.
Speaker 3:There are a few interesting interactions here. For one a bit earlier, gregory gives a very specific answer of 847, which sets the stage that his memory is very good. Second, the detective seems to have noticed how closed off Gregory is being still and is doing a little bit of friendly picking on him to build rapport. However, when the detective talks about finding his mom, gregory makes some anchor point shifts. This thought should have raised a bit of hope or excitement, yet instead he shows signs of anxiety.
Speaker 6:He said she goes off on your brother's stuff, so I don't want her to go off on you for that. Fine, it's whatever. How do you deal with it when she goes off on you? I've gotten better at it. You've gotten better at it. I used to get really angry and emotional, but I've kind of realized it's not worth it. That's the only way to deal with it. The worst thing to do would be to put your hands on her. I would never do something like that. You would never put your hands on your mom. No, and I think it made that point quite clear to her. We had an argument a couple months ago, like it was like a long time ago, and she sat across the room because she didn't cross me and I told her I could yell and scream at you, all I want do the exact same thing as I did with me, but I would never I'd never let my hands on you.
Speaker 3:Never. That's just nothing I'm going to do. Gregory repeats the statement that he would never lay his hands on his mother and then make some convincing character reference statements. It's clear that he's working really hard to be seen as a calm, nonviolent person who couldn't have heard his mom. It makes you wonder why he feels the need to emphasize this when she's just missing. At this point, sergeant Pagliari begins building a timeline.
Speaker 6:Okay, what happened this morning? I slept in. My alarm was not set. She woke me up around 6.20. I sleep in my clothes, so what you wearing right now is what you wore at school. No, I changed shirts when I got home. Okay, I was sweaty.
Speaker 3:This is an odd detail. Why would Gregory even think of changing his shirt when he came home and found his house burglarized and his mother missing?
Speaker 6:Put your pants and shoes in the sink, yes, and your socks? You got your socks, yeah, okay. So 6.20, you slept in, okay, mom came, woke you up, bired up huh, she wasn't angry, okay, so tell me what happened. She's like okay, you got to get up. Now I'll brush her teeth and pile in the car. So I grabbed my backpack, I went and brushed my teeth to recover my hair Kind of messed with my hair a bit and then I got in the car. So what time do you think you got to school? Honestly, I have no idea. Okay, look at your phone, it's probably in the Volver Coplic 640.
Speaker 3:Okay, it's certainly interesting that a few minutes ago Gregory could remember the exact minute he got home, but now he honestly has no clue what time he got to school.
Speaker 6:Talk to anybody when you got there, hey, what's up? You have friends at school. Yes, who'd you talk to? First person you saw at school was who First?
Speaker 3:person. I saw For a brief moment Gregory unblocks by lowering his arms and leaning forward. He then rings his hands together before closing back off. Something about this line of questioning made him a bit uncomfortable, but why?
Speaker 6:Probably my friend Kat Kat. Yeah, where girl Female, you got the last name. No, she's your friend, you got the last name. I'm gonna keep you real with you, I don't really got that many friends. I'm not like a super social person. Okay, I have a lot of acquaintances that I have like that I'd be very.
Speaker 6:I had a class with in the past or be a class with now, or see I know from elsewhere and so, yeah, no borders, no borders. What's your first period class? Buddy, biology. Who's that teacher? Mr Oxtowski, biology, biology. What building is that room? Building, everything else you know? Building three, four, three, four, three is the room? Well, building three, four, three, oh, four, three. I don't have the room number.
Speaker 6:You want to take a stab at spelling the last name of that teacher, l-a-t-s-o-y, or maybe W and ski, I guess. Man, woman, he's a guy. Okay, okay, you like him. He's not a teacher. I have a D in his class. You have a D. Yeah, how's the law feel about that? We had an argument about it last night. Oh, tell me about that. We talked about it. Basically, she's like you know, I can't be doing this and I was like, well, I got all these and be the last quarter. I can pull my grade up before the end of the semester. And she was like you know, whatever blah, blah, blah. Don't ask, oxtowski, I'm like, I'm not. I just know I'm capable of doing fix like that.
Speaker 6:Sergeant Pagliari has honed his skills when it comes to reading behavior and he's picking up on some strange behavior from Gregory you know one thing that you said you'd like being a, or you want to be a detective someday, and in my personal experience, when people start a story and then they go into the blah blah blah part, that there's more to the blah blah blah. So if you will, greg, tell me what the blah blah blah part was for this argument, okay, well, basically she was just kind of like you know, whatever? Yeah, I'm narcissistic sometimes, don't be so cocky.
Speaker 3:Using the word basically tends to indicate that someone is leaving something out. This, combined with Gregory's nonverbal behaviors, such as self soothing, head rubbing, scratching, possible eye blocking, and his one hand tightly across his stomach in a protective and guarded posture, all seem to indicate that he's feeling a lot of anxiety. I was like well, I'm not cocky.
Speaker 6:I'm capable, I feel like I have the skills because I've done it before to fix my grades in a short amount of time. And I was like I probably could fix them by Friday and stuff, and just talking with her about that, and she was like all right, whatever, go study your biology. And I was like all right, so I studied my biology for about an hour and then I went to her room and she was on the phone with dad. I said hi, dad, and they had up and I said I said I said a prayer with her for a good night and then our whenever for a million hours for grandma, for a cool job, stuff like that.
Speaker 3:When people say and then, or jumped to parts of their story by saying and repeated a few times in a row, it tends to mean that they're going through events like their bullet points and they're usually leaving something out between the ends. And I was like I probably could fix them by Friday.
Speaker 6:And so I studied my biology for about an hour and then I went to her room and she was on the phone with dad. I said hi, dad, and they had up and I said I said a prayer with her for a good night and Then our whenever for a million hours for grandma, for a cool job, stuff like that.
Speaker 3:Pay close attention to the moments when Gregory says and then, as the questioning continues and then I kissed her and I went to sleep.
Speaker 6:And that was around. I went to sleep around 11. That's why I have a look up plane. Okay, when was the first time somebody called you about, or did anyone call you about, your mother not being at work or like that? I received no communication from anyone about that?
Speaker 3:Okay, with Gregory school day seeming as normal as can be, the sergeant inquires about what he found when he got home that afternoon. Gregory gives some indication that he's feeling anxiety around the questions of what happened when he got home by fidgeting with his fingers, making anchor point shifts and doing some self soothing rubbing on his arm. It's important to note that an innocent person might also experience anxiety with these questions, as coming home to such a house after a robbery would be traumatic. However, it's still going to be noted by the detective.
Speaker 6:How long would you say it takes you to get from the bus to your house? 10 to 15 minutes. You weren't running or anything to the word.
Speaker 3:No, gregory makes even more anchor point. Movement shifts as this line of questioning starts, moving his leg up into a barrier position and engaging in some self soothing as well.
Speaker 6:Front door lock used to key Mom's car was in the driveway Correct and you told the detective Jones it was running. It was running Is that odd?
Speaker 6:Yes, is it odd the fact that your mom's car is even there? Yes, she first had to sign real station and then she takes her bike on the sun rail to go to her job. I don't usually get home 630 cars in the driveway. That's weird Cars there at all. It's weird, you agree? Yes, now you're the key and open the door. What do you do? What's the first thing do?
Speaker 6:When you went inside, well, I noticed that there was all over before like just a bunch of like crap, that reverse drone everywhere and the closet door for open and there were stuff spilled on my table. I just noticed that the front view of my house was chaotic. Spill on table where? On the table? What room's the table? My house? You go to the front door and there's this hallway my room is this way and then there's a dining room table right here. Okay, and the next thing we did was we went in my room and my I noticed that there were things missing and that there was dressers and crap, crap, oh no, crap, just pulled out and just showing everywhere what's missing from your room. Mainly, I didn't really look like look thoroughly for like everything that was missing from my room, but I noticed three things in particular.
Speaker 3:Where are?
Speaker 6:those. My stereo system Just grab what there was with three things. It's like a radio with two large speakers and lights up LATU blue. Do you know who makes it? Zero plug? Zero plug is pretty popular. Yeah, I know which other things you're missing. My gaming computer Is it a? Describe it to me. It is white, it has a glass side and inside you can see the wires and the graphics cards and all that stuff inside and it goes LAT blue. So it's like a tower and then a laptop. It is. Yeah, it's a big boy. Does that attach you to a monitor? That's how you play. I paid for it with all my money from summer jobs and stuff. Once you bring the pissed off, that's gone. Yes, I'd be pissed off. You spent all your money on this computer tower and now it's gone. Mom, I'm pissed off that my mom is gone.
Speaker 3:Right, so getting that this is an interesting moment. It appears that Gregory doesn't want to show anger about his missing things, so he deflects it back to his missing mom to appear like the appropriately concerned teenager, but it all seems a little forced. What's the third thing?
Speaker 6:I know my, I have a 25. I forget the weight on it, but it's a hunting legal combat though. Combat though, combat though Combat though. Do you mean that? Yeah, I think it's a promo. Actually, this thing is to talk to me. You can talk to Detective Jones.
Speaker 3:While Sergeant Pagliari steps out of the room to make some calls, Gregory chats with Detective Jones.
Speaker 6:When he's in my house he'll not be crying seeing me, although sometimes it takes hours. Sometimes it takes almost a day and a half. I know you've worked cases like this before I have.
Speaker 5:It takes a while sometimes, and the more information you can give them the better off it is.
Speaker 6:You know that he should know what to do and where to go. I made a lot of bad decisions in my life which, in regards to other things.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it's just. His answer here immediately grabs Detective Jones' attention and he moves into the confession position. Gregory must have noticed, because he quickly clarified with regards to other things, but it makes you wonder what exactly is his sponsor thinking in this moment Now?
Speaker 6:mom's gone. I think I'll make a wreck and fly over myself. Oh, how do you think that's the case? Because you know what, mother hell, she's spent five and a homie date. Or take a look like a hostage and find somebody that was on her. Look at this. Mom is okay. Yeah.
Speaker 6:I do too, greg. I can't imagine what it'd be like. What'd you do with her? I don't know if you've long felt you After you guys had your argument with her last night, you'd say right now, what would you say to her? I would just feel like such a dick after every argument we have. It makes me agree that we don't understand each other. We're different people, we have different opinions, but we love each other, oh no. You know, you feel guilty about the final.
Speaker 6:I just, I just wish she's. I hope she's safe. Did you say you wanted back?
Speaker 4:I wish, I wish she was gone.
Speaker 3:I don't give a. Gregory makes a big mistake here. He slips up saying I hope she's safe. He may have just given away not only what happened to his mom, but that he may know more about it than he's letting on To cover. He starts to cry. But if you're wondering if he's actually upset, notice that he gets distracted and has to brush his hair out of his face. After the detective helps Gregory calm down, fagliari comes back into the room with more questions, hoping to get any information from Gregory that might help them find his mother.
Speaker 6:So you were talking about going through the house. You went down, took some inventory. Well, after I went downstairs looking for my mom and did the fire, I went back upstairs and I decided I needed to check on my dog.
Speaker 3:He's so eager to continue a story that he actually interrupts the detective.
Speaker 6:Going through the house. You went down, took some inventory.
Speaker 3:Well, after I went downstairs- he seems pressured to go through what he did when he got home and to explain everything. This is really interesting, because an innocent person shouldn't feel the need to explain things. It simply is what it is If the house was broken into robbers.
Speaker 6:I thought there was a good chance. They killed my dog. I didn't know he didn't interrupt that much, but I didn't know if they were going to do that or whatever. I didn't know what was going to happen. So I walked into the laundry room and I saw everything was displaced, but my dog was fine. I noticed the door. The door I can stand up and show you. You want to stand up and show me? Let's say this is the knob for the door. There's a deadbolt here. The deadbolt was unlocked. This was locked, but this entire wooden area on this frame was located in busted open. The force of the door was so powerful that it had literally broken the wood.
Speaker 3:I recognize that as someone kicking in the door. It's odd that Gregory thinks this is something he needs to demonstrate. It's more likely that he feels the need to burn off nervous energy.
Speaker 6:Why do you think that? Because either that or they somehow forced the door open, but it had to be strong enough, of course, to break this, to break a turning point of lock. Basically, it had to be strong enough to do that. So did you think that let's sit back down? The force and everything you're talking about here is just because of the based off your explorer training. There's problems, problems, huh, I'm just assuming, just thinking out loud, you have to be able to be either strong enough or there needs to be a certain amount of force for the wood, like a door frame, to basically crack and make the lock get out.
Speaker 3:True. As Gregory draws out a layout of his home for Sergeant Pagliari, he mentions something odd that he noticed in his mother's room.
Speaker 6:I made it to the master bedroom. It was just really bad. It was terrible in there. One thing I noticed was that the bed was at a angle. What's it supposed to be? It's supposed to be straight on. Okay, now there's a dresser here, there's a dresser here, there's a couple of both shelves and there's a mirror here, and then there's a dresser here, and then that's the bathroom or whatnot. But that is, that bed was out of place. That's one of the major things I noticed was that it was out of place.
Speaker 3:There's been a shift in how Gregory answers these questions, and he's much more open to talking about things that have nothing to do with his mother.
Speaker 6:So after I'd served the house and looked for my mom, I called the cops. I'm pretty sure you know the rest of the story. Yeah, did you see? Okay, there's one thing I wanted to ask you about. You said you came home from school and you wore different clothes at school. You did all the surveying and everything, at what point did you think it was pertinent to change your clothes? All right, let me tell you. So I was sweating my ass off, right?
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm. I was really hot and Instead of just answering the question directly, he goes into a long story to explain his actions, which is another side that he feels nervous about what he's saying.
Speaker 6:I told my family, so I think I told you this. But I got in the house and I felt sick. I couldn't find my mom. I was freaking out, I was just. I was not in a good place, and so I went to my bathroom and I threw up in the toilet and I then proceeded to flush the throw-up down, and then I took off my school shirt and then changed to a different shirt. I didn't know if there was any throw-up on it or not, but I was feeling hot and sweaty and I needed to change the color. Where's the shirt? I know it's in my hamper. Where you know where's it?
Speaker 3:I don't know. Okay, sergeant Pagliari clarifies one final detail before diving into Gregory's story. If things seem a little odd so far, then get ready, because this is where things start to get even stranger.
Speaker 6:Detective Jones was talking about the marks to your face and I wanted to talk about that a little bit more. Right. Alright. When did that happen? Can I ask what relevance has had to the conversation?
Speaker 3:Everything is relevant right, and I'm asking about the relevance as the kind of thing you could expect to hear from an experienced criminal as a deflection, or from a savvy adult with a lawyer perhaps, but this is unexpected awareness on the part of a young, seemingly not criminally involved teen. He sounds like a defense lawyer here, not a kid. It also shows that he may be fishing to see what information they have.
Speaker 6:Now they're going to say hey, listen, you know, greg's mother's missing. Greg has marks on his face. Is it possible that Greg got into some kind of altercation with his mother? Right, they're going to ask me that. Yeah, okay, so now I need to explain when you got those marks on your face. Okay, good wait, yesterday, yesterday, what time After school?
Speaker 6:We're at Student Parking Lot. Okay, who did it? My friend, joe. What's his last name? It starts with an L. You have a class with him.
Speaker 6:No, he's older than me, but he's um, he's what. He's older than me, older than you, okay, joe L. Older, white male, black male, that's a bad male. White. Okay, what great thing Joe L is in. He's a junior. How long have you known him? A year and a half, okay, not a nice one situation to you, because it probably looks like I got my ass beat. Go ahead, please Tell me what happened.
Speaker 6:All right, so at homecoming, joe's ex-girlfriend was attempting to grind on me. I don't know if you know that is. Tell me what it is. It's like when you have, you have, um. Well, I was hanging out with my friend. I'm my other friends, right, and they're they're being grinded on, right, but I don't, I don't have a girlfriend and I'm kind of more focused on other things and I don't have time for that. And so his ex-girlfriend Joe's ex-girlfriend comes with the grind on me and I'm like, you know, I don't really want to do that. And she's like, come on, it'll be fun. And so she did it and I was like I don't really want to do that. I was like I don't want to do that.
Speaker 6:I just kind of I don't want to do that I was like I don't want to do that and I just kind of, I just kind of, I just kind of let her because I wanted to, and then I guess, but Joe found out, so he gave up to me and then he, he slapped me and he pushed me and he goes do what the hell? I was like I just want to do it. I was at fault, I shouldn't have done that. I thought even more. I thought even more than other people, you know. I thought I were I don't know what we have and I wouldn't want to end that. And I want you to understand that I'm sorry. And then I'm that I really want to continue being friends with you. And he was like, you know, I was kind of a dig move for me to come up and hit you without any pre-fix, so I'm sorry that I did that. Then we hugged and I said see you tomorrow. And that was it. Was there anybody else there? As follows no.
Speaker 3:Not going to help. Not that I know of is a selective memory statement, but Gregory's entire story is full of red flags, starting with the neck rubbing. It's not particularly believable that most teen boys would get in a fight like that and make up that quickly, nevermind hug and not even know each other's last names. Either Gregory actually has no clue how normal interactions work or he thinks the officers are that naive and dumb that they will believe this story.
Speaker 6:So you were just in the parking lot, like, were you walking, were you hanging out? I mean, how did this tell me about how we? I was hanging out with my friends? So you were there in the parking lot with other people. Yeah, okay, can you name somebody with a first and last name Brian, poor, as Brian, or as spell it one, but give it a go P O R E Z, p O R E Z. So for us, okay, we'll raise you yes.
Speaker 3:Is he in a class with you?
Speaker 6:No, yeah, no, he saw, he saw it all. So, brian, poor as Joe, I'll punch you in the face. Yeah, yesterday, the University of High School.
Speaker 3:Yes, okay, gregory's story is now out in the open, but there are a few issues with it. While Sergeant Pagliari has been speaking with Gregory, another investigator has been verifying information with Gregory's school, and things just aren't lining up.
Speaker 6:That's 100%, that's happening. No, that's it. I mean, you're telling me that it's the truth. Yeah, okay, you're in school all day. Yep, I never even know you. Shall, I believe everything that you told me, gregory. I mean so to you. Well, here's the thing. Okay, do you think that I'm not going to go or have some of my detectives go and run down your story and verify all these places?
Speaker 3:you're at. Yeah, An honest person is much more likely to just say yes or ask why wouldn't you? Instead of a more confrontational answer like it's up to you and when I do that, what are they going to tell me?
Speaker 6:They're going to tell you it's reasonable that you were in you went to every class today.
Speaker 6:I was late 2007 and I was in the auditorium six period. I don't think I mentioned that, but okay, so you didn't check yourself out of school today at 110. No, I'm so, the school's wrong. What do you mean? So if the school tells me that great check themselves out of school today at 110 pm, that's wrong. Yeah, I closed there all day. Okay, so if Mr Dye tells me you weren't in school today in his class, he's wrong. No, no, he's not wrong, but I didn't. I didn't leave the school. So you lied to me. Oh, I didn't leave the school. Yes, well, the school doesn't know. You lied to me. I'm gonna give you a damn what it's about. You lied to me. Yeah, what happened?
Speaker 3:Gregory seems to freeze a bit here, like he's trying to decide what his next story is going to look like. The detective just confronted him and now he's entered the deconflicting stage of the liar's loop for this part of his lie. He now has to make his story fit into what the detective already knows as well. The detective is doing a good job of slowly entering the confrontation stage of the read technique, bringing up piece by piece to see how Gregory responds. He's also sitting in the same position as Gregory. This kind of mirroring is meant to improve rapport and connection, even while confronting him.
Speaker 6:Well, as you know, I have a D in biology. I fell asleep in his class and so I needed to get shit done. I needed to go in that grind, so I skipped into the auditorium six and seventh period and I sat down and I took that time and I did my bio homework and the stuff I needed to do for bio, because I'm missing a frick ton of assignments in there I think I'm missing. In total I'm missing six. It doesn't need to be done. So why would the school say you checked yourself out of 110? Because I would show up asking for both of those classes. You can't check yourself out.
Speaker 3:It's hard to tell if Gregory is being genuine, but if he's willing to lie about something like this, then what else could he be lying about?
Speaker 6:Why'd you lie to me about the stupidest biology? Because I don't want you to have a bad opinion of me, because I want you to understand. I've done a lot of wrong things in my life and I acknowledge that I don't make the best decisions. But if something serious is this or my mom is missing, I need you to not have a bad opinion of me.
Speaker 6:My opinion of you, greg, is whatever you tell me. My job is not here to make judgments good, better and different. My job is to give as much as I can from you to help find your mother. Now, when you lie to me, even if it's a little bit, yeah, you lose some credibility and you can get all upset and cry about it. That's just the way that it goes. Now I get it. You hear what I'm saying. No, I hear what you're saying. And then I get these things about well, who's the guy that drove you? I don't know. Brian's something. Well, I didn't lie to you. I legitimately forgot his name, but first time I was talking about him, these things that you tell me, especially when you're not in school, can anybody verify you? Or where were you when you did your biology homework in?
Speaker 4:the auditorium.
Speaker 6:So I want to see you on camera in the auditorium doing your biology homework. Yeah, make sure. Yeah, okay. So if I don't see that and I call you a liar again, am I right to do that? Yeah, that's what you will see, so I'm not really great at it.
Speaker 6:So if I were to hypothetically just say, or just to say and I don't hypothetically if I were to say that you went home last night, got an argument with your mom for whatever reason I guess it was the biology thing, right, because I know she told your dad that you guys got an argument about it If I were to say that you went to school and then you came home, somehow you got home. I'm not sure how you got home, but you checked yourself out. Now again, give me some credit here. You checked yourself out, or you left school checking out, you just left. Somehow you got home. You get home. Something happens to your mom, or you and your mom got in the hands on, you did something to your mom. Isn't that before a fest? What do you mean? You killed your mom. Why?
Speaker 3:would you think I would do that? Following this accusation, Gregory freezes and pauses for a long time. Right now he's been pretending that she's just missing. So this is a big jump. But Gregory's response is very suspicious. He doesn't show any anger or indignation, as you would expect from an innocent person being accused. He just flipped it and asked the detective a question. He didn't even deny it, he just deflected.
Speaker 6:You tell me you guys have ups and downs, you have marks on your face. You told me Joe L was the one that punched you in the face. But before you didn't say shit about it, I didn't ask. I did ask. I said who was there? I don't know, oh, maybe my friend was there. Your credibility with me, greg, sometimes is up and down. So again, when I asked you, would it be far fetched if you came home today and killed your mother? Yeah, you did kill your mother. Yeah, would it be far fetched? Yeah, what? So there is no reason to live that. But she said to you no, she said to you.
Speaker 3:This is the first big confrontation when Pagliari states you killed your mom. He then attempts to build a theme that she's been hitting Gregory, offering him some kind of justification. But as the accusations against him become more and more severe, gregory seems to realize that the only way to protect his innocence is to make some tragic and startling revelations.
Speaker 6:Have you ever been insulted? No, have you? Yes, okay, I have. I was insulted. I reported to the police. They did nothing. Okay, so the only person that was really there for me were my parents, and specifically my mom. My mom was the one who helped me do that dark time in my life. I felt like I attempted to do more than once, more than three times. She never put me in all of acts, she never got the cops, she never did any of that. She helped me through that time in my life where I was in a better place, and she saved me from myself. I love my mom more than anything. We have our ups and downs and we have our problems, but I love her.
Speaker 3:The timing of his story is questionable. He seems to be trying to deflect from the accusation that he killed his mother and put himself into a victim role in the eyes of the detective. It's a fairly common tactic for narcissistic individuals to use threats or actions like this to manipulate others. He also makes really intense eye contact while leaning forward, and seems to be trying to read if he believes his story. This position is similar to the confession position, but the officers don't have him to that point yet. He's just trying to manipulate them into believing him and I was explaining to the detective Jims earlier.
Speaker 6:I had gotten into an argument with my mom maybe a year ago, and she sat me across the room and she said I'm scared of you. And I said why she's like hold it, you lay your hands on me. And I said I would never do that because I would never do that. That's not something I would do. That's not something I would do. I would never lay my hands on my mother. She's done too much for me to ensure her family For me to lay my hands on my mother. You're the detective, right? Yes, okay. So do you want to know what happened to you? Yes, you want to. We, we, we, we, we want the same thing.
Speaker 6:Yes, we want to find my mom. I want to know what happened to your mom. I want to know what happened to my mom as well, and I don't. I don't think she's dead, whatever. I try to think positively, but it's whatever.
Speaker 3:The point of the matter is, like I said before in our previous conversation, Like I said before, is a reference statement and saves him from having to repeat a lie again.
Speaker 6:I've made some mistakes in my life and I regret them. And and now I'm what's my mistakes to you, so you can understand what happened. I don't know what happened to my mom. That's the first thing I want to get out. I don't know what happened to my mom, but I do know where I was. I know how everything gets fired and I know that I like you a lot because I wanted to protect my own name. But I realized now that, after, after you told me, after you asked me whether I would, whether I killed my mom or not, I realized that there's something more important than just me next to my family, and I'm ready to help my family and get them the answers they want.
Speaker 3:Gregory is really trying to position himself as a good person by repeating how much he cares about his mom, family and how great of a kid he is. A truly innocent person would likely not need to repeat this to convince anyone, as it would be obvious. I just, I just I need to be completely honest with you.
Speaker 6:And so that's what I'm going to do. So the full, the full page. I'll tell you what happened.
Speaker 3:It's clear that he's used to being in charge and telling adults what to do, as it's very bold for a 15 year old to tell a detective what to do, such as flip the page as Gregory begins to spill the beans on the events leading up to the incident. His story sounds similar at first, with him getting a ride home from the police explorers the previous night and getting into a fight with his mother over his grades. However, things took a shocking turn after Gregory supposedly went to bed that night.
Speaker 3:As he launches into this story. Gregory includes a ton of unnecessary details to try to appear honest. This type of embellishment is an attempt to bury the story in the details. It's also interesting because it can help manage the anxiety of being dishonest by including all these tidbits of over honesty in the story. With this many details, it's almost like he's attempting to derail the conversation away from finding his mom by going into so many details.
Speaker 3:Just before he launches into this story, he shifts away from everyone, back into the side, away from his sponsor. It seems like he doesn't want to be a part of this conversation anymore.
Speaker 6:Due to his past credit-giving work. Gregory and Gregory are not able to address this conversation. 130, I believe, and I'm back and we go to where me and my friends get. We're in the car and I have to understand, while my friends did come quote-unquote pick me up, I was the one driving and I wasn't, and while I had had some drinks I wasn't drunk. I wasn't drunk, driving like I was fully lucid, being conscious. So I was driving along to the media and we drove to this church and there's a fire pit in the back and so me and my friends smugged a bit there. I popped an LSD tab, so my other friends just kind of chilled there and we would go back and forth between my house to get more money to go to 7-eleven or other places and get food or drinks for snacks in general. So we traveled a lot between this fire pit and my house, in which case afterwards and then it was like 545 as he tells this story.
Speaker 3:It not only changes multiple times and is filled with far too many details than necessary, indicating that he has a memory of extremes. But he's rubbing his nose, touching his mouth, fidgeting with a pen, and then puts his guard back up quickly. All of this indicates that Gregory is experiencing a high level of anxiety. Soon he will show his memory of extremes when he goes from sharing too many details to suddenly leaving something out.
Speaker 6:I drove the van home, hopped in my house I was wearing black boots and jeans and a great t-shirt and I got on my house and I started getting ready for school, put my bio textbook in my backpack, you know, just getting ready, etc. Etc. Etc after.
Speaker 3:This Gregory story once again aligns with the one he told earlier. His mom dropped him off at school and he went through his day like normal until the sixth period one, 10 after the period, I met with my friends.
Speaker 6:We walked us, we walked off campus, stopped to go back from the woods thoroughly necessary detail but that is what happened and I, then my friend's car, and we drove to my house. We picked up some more money on. Then we drove to the fire bit again and we sort of more secret there talked this one of my friends this is the same kid that was little and I snagged on a night friend, but I am. I just think I stole my mom's car like I had was like I did Thursday night and I drove in over to his house and I talked to myself and so this is one of the kids and so we were just talking about life problems and how to deal with them, and just all this.
Speaker 3:Gregory is once again trying to make himself look like a good person and an honest person by telling on himself, and then bolsters this by including the story about helping his friend.
Speaker 6:We're shooting this shit at this fire place and smoking cigarettes and just kind of chilling.
Speaker 3:And then we basically went back home and they dropped me off and then then on Note that Gregory says he basically went back home along with a super extended and then followed by a long pause before he answers. He's clearly mentally skipping something, but he makes a poor attempt at covering it up, as it's pretty obvious, especially as there will be several more pauses throughout his story. It's pretty much the same.
Speaker 6:I noticed when Mom's car was there. The lights were on. I walked into the house. Everything was everywhere door busted and all that shit. Whatever I already told you, I went through my house looking for my Mom. Wasn't anywhere to be found. Call the police.
Speaker 3:Finally, after hours of interrogation, Gregory begins to divulge some of the truth. At face value, this information might not seem relevant to finding Gregory's mother, but Sergeant Pagliari has a suspicion that it just might be more important to the case than anyone realizes.
Speaker 6:What were you doing last night? What's their names? Brian Porter is in Tulsa, where? How did you get out of the house, went down? Did you go to the bedroom? Yeah, we're in Black Boots, jeans, black jeans, right. Oh, by the way, I forgot to tell you I dunked all of this clothing because I smelled like smoke. Okay, so Black Boots, though. Black Jeans Right, they were Black Jeans. It's just jeans Floating. Yeah, Pink or purple or gray, they're just standard blue. Yeah. Gray T-shirt yeah.
Speaker 3:The detective appears to be trying to mirror Gregory's language, which is a pretty common tactic in rapport building. Mirroring verbal language serves the same purpose as mirroring nonverbal language. It helps with connection and trust.
Speaker 6:So now it's you and Dylan. Who else? Brian? You picked up Brian and Dylan's phone also. Yes, mom's name, man, it was us three, us three, us three.
Speaker 6:You drank, where were you drinking? Alcohol? What type? Like a beer, liquor, tequila, tequila who brought the tequila to the party, dylan, tequila Smoking what Cigarettes? Cigarettes, yes, and these guys, dylan and Brian, dropped you off today At your house. Well, they, I told you, they dropped me off Right here. When did she? Or no, where's the? Where the hell are you talking about? Where's that place? They said. They dropped you. This is High Banks. So they dropped me off here. I walked the rest of the distance.
Speaker 6:So it's not possible that Dylan and Brian came to your house after they dropped you off, stole your kids and killed your mom. Is that possible? Why, to try to pass me? Well, I have to ask because, again, I'm trying to figure out what they left at your home. No, they're all they're. They're definitely accounted for because I have I, because I saw them throughout the school day. And so, if this, whether it happened to my mom, I don't even know what happened. But whatever happened to my mom, it happened during the school day, obviously, because when I got home. She wasn't there and the house was ransacked, so obviously something you know, whatever.
Speaker 3:Gregory repeats the word obviously, which is a way to push his narrative. Remember the more you repeat something, the more likely others are to believe it.
Speaker 6:So none of that that's missing. You didn't take to go trade for drugs or anything else. No.
Speaker 6:Okay, did your friends no? Okay, now you, you understand that hopefully you understand that this could have been flushed out hours ago. Yeah, so I want to give you some credibility. I mean, what's like I have to do with you said you want your, your, your sad answers. This isn't any answers for me. I mean this? Is you going out being a teenager, stealing your mom's car and doing some? I thought you were going to tell me that you know who would happen to your mother, like somebody killed your mom or something.
Speaker 6:I don't know what happened. I already told you.
Speaker 4:I'm giving you my alibi.
Speaker 6:So you know, I didn't off my mom.
Speaker 3:Stating that he's given his alibi is certainly odd, and rather than actually denying being involved, gregory seems to be fixated on his story. Okay, are you not?
Speaker 6:getting hostile on me. Or I'm here to help you, yeah, no, but you, you, I it's not. I'm not trying to get hostile, because it's just the fact that when you have to understand that you could have told me this before, but now this guy, joe, points you in the face yesterday. Is that legit? Yeah, I know this.
Speaker 3:This is the first time we see Gregory get really flustered, though we've seen him do a lot of self soothing throughout. Perhaps he's realizing he's still not out of the woods. But little does he know this interview is not going to go the way he hoped.
Speaker 6:Okay. So Brian saw the guy punch you in the face. Did Dylan see this guy punch you in?
Speaker 2:the face. No, he wasn't there.
Speaker 6:He wasn't there, but Brian's going to vouch for you. Yeah, okay. Just making sure because, again, I want to. If you can't understand that I'm taking some of the things that you say with the grain of salt.
Speaker 3:Making Gregory think that his friends might not corroborate his story and planting a seed of doubt that his friends will give a different story. The detective is using the prisoner's dilemma to try to get him to be honest.
Speaker 6:Then I will understand, okay, but yeah, so maybe you want to know that my mom is missing.
Speaker 3:Sergeant Pagliari gives Gregory one last chance to tell the truth before they verify his story with evidence.
Speaker 6:I want you to look at me real quick because I'm going to tell you, I want you to understand the magnitude of it, okay, okay. So earlier in our conversation, I've been very transparent with you. I've told you some of our tactics and things that we're going to do. I told you that we're going to verify your story, right, yes, okay. So one aspect of your story obviously is to run down Brian and Dylan, okay, who you said you were with last night and who you were with today, correct? So think carefully about this. Okay, what do you think Dylan or Brian is going to say Like about me? Yes, they're probably going to activate it, don't they? Or they'll verify everything I've said.
Speaker 3:Why would they act that?
Speaker 6:they don't know you, they don't want to get involved, involved in what Like involved with my problems. I guess I don't know what the matter is. Yeah, I do you go run them down when I redo that, like right now we're doing it. Yeah, yeah, they're going to do what. They'll verify what I'm saying, which is that you have nothing to do with the murder of your mother. My mom was murdered. What do you think? I don't know, I didn't think she was murdered.
Speaker 3:While Gregory continues to sit in the hot seat, two other detectives sit down with his friend, dylan Sighlaric. Little do they know Dylan is about to break their case wide open.
Speaker 1:What's going?
Speaker 7:on man.
Speaker 1:I'm going to change.
Speaker 7:Steve Wheeler, I'm a detective with the Sheriff's Office is effective. Mike Cox, how are you Pretty alright, how you doing Mind if we have them over your time?
Speaker 2:Yeah, kevin, you already have an idea of what we're doing. Anybody contact you about anything? No, okay, have you talked to Greg today?
Speaker 1:I saw him at school. How good of friends are you guys? I mean, I talked to him, but we're not like super super close. Okay, what was he super close with? I don't really know. I don't talk to him that much to really find out. I don't really have like two close friends myself. So, okay, who are your close friends? There's Brian. He's a really good friend of mine and, yeah, really Brian, he's like the other person I've talked to. What's his last name? Porrest. Porrest, d-o-r-r-a-s.
Speaker 2:Do you know another kid named Joey Joey Joey Junior, or something like that?
Speaker 7:Then maybe friends with Greg.
Speaker 1:No, I mean, I don't know people by names really, so like I might have seen him, but I don't know him.
Speaker 3:So this isn't definitive proof of whether or not Gregory's story so far has been true. There seems to be some discrepancies in the statements given by both of the boys. Dylan doesn't know who Joelle is, and maybe it's because there's an entirely different reason that Gregory has scratches on his face. Not only that, but he also seems to be downplaying his relationship with Gregory. According to Gregory, he had saved Dylan from taking his own life. It seems strange that Dylan wouldn't consider Gregory a close friend after such an incident.
Speaker 2:Have you ever gone to Greg's house?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm in a Greg's house.
Speaker 2:Okay, when would you need anything the last time you were over there?
Speaker 1:I mean probably the last time I worked with him. That's like yeah, last time I worked with him, so like Saturday.
Speaker 2:Okay, so recent.
Speaker 1:Like is he okay?
Speaker 2:though, so Greg's fine dad's fine. Everybody's fine, except his mom. That's the problem is, his mom is gone. We don't know where she is. We have no idea where this lady is at. We have zero ideas where this lady is at.
Speaker 7:And that's why we're here talking to you, because we know you're friends with Greg. Yeah, I was just I'm worried for him.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Greg's fine.
Speaker 2:It looks like he got in a fight. He said he got in a fight at school, which is why we were trying to figure out what was going on there, because it's going with all the leads that we possibly can.
Speaker 3:For now, dylan is aware that he needs to watch everything he says, but later on he won't be so careful. As soon as he mistakenly thinks the cameras aren't rolling, he will make some truly shocking statements without realizing he's being recorded.
Speaker 2:She's missing today. Yes, she's missing today. She's missing right now. And then they have no idea where this lady went. There's some unusual circumstances around it that we just. It's abnormal.
Speaker 7:Enough, abnormally, to get a bunch of detectives out here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were both at home and they called us and said hey, we need you guys to come down and we can come and start calling.
Speaker 3:With some general information gathered from Dylan, the detectives start verifying his story.
Speaker 7:The only time you saw Greg that he was in the morning and in the afternoon at lunch, and you haven't seen him since.
Speaker 1:I didn't really see him, no.
Speaker 7:What do you mean? You didn't really see him, Like I didn't face-to-face kind of thing.
Speaker 1:It's all walking, but when After lunch and then the before I left, Okay, but not out of school.
Speaker 7:No, and Greg never left early and got a ride with you guys at all. No, I was with Brian.
Speaker 3:It's clear that Dylan and Brian are incredibly close and seemingly spent the day together. Wanting to make sure that they have every angle on this story, detectives are sent to question Brian as well.
Speaker 7:How you doing, sir Good Brian. Good shut up. Yeah, hey, brian, I'm Detective Leonard. This is Detective Johnson.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we need to talk to you, so if you can come in and talk to me, Uh, here let me step out real quick.
Speaker 7:Sorry, you just woke me up. Sorry, man. Here's the deal. Man, we need to talk to you about that bird movie that happened over at Greg's house today. Okay, you know anything about it, uh she messaged me that something happened.
Speaker 6:that's all I've heard, though yeah, did you?
Speaker 2:see Greg today. That's cool. What time, uh from last I saw him was lunch, did you see him?
Speaker 7:after lunch. What Did you see him after lunch?
Speaker 6:No, I was in class, that's really one of the last times I saw him, so so far, it seems like Brian and Dylan's stories are adding up.
Speaker 3:However, it doesn't take long before Dylan makes a mistake, do?
Speaker 7:you ever know Greg to have a how do I describe this? A mean streak per se in him. You ever see him get angry.
Speaker 1:Like anger issues.
Speaker 7:Angry? Yeah, any indication that he has it in him? Does he have a lot of anger built up? Does he have a lot of animosity against anything?
Speaker 1:Or anyone Like kind of hate for something, but he has anger yeah.
Speaker 7:What's he have anger about? Just?
Speaker 1:he's like anyone, something little. He just make a anger out of nowhere, do you ever see him snap?
Speaker 7:No, I've never seen him snap. How do you know he has anger Because?
Speaker 1:I've just seen him angry, like about stuff. What kind of things? I didn't really ask about it, it's not really my thing to know.
Speaker 7:How did he act when he was angry? I mean, does he shut down? Does he get fired up? Does he Shut down?
Speaker 1:He just doesn't want to talk to anyone when he gets angry.
Speaker 7:Has he given you anything to hold of his from that house Last week?
Speaker 1:you let me borrow the bow if you want that. What did you borrow it for? I thought it was cool. I actually don't even know how to shoot it, so what did you borrow it for?
Speaker 7:I thought it was cool, so you thought it would just be cool to have it in your room.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I collect stuff like that, like I have a knife that's also a lighter, just interesting stuff.
Speaker 7:What would you do with the bow? Look at it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in lunch Do you.
Speaker 7:We're going to shoot it at all. I don't know, did you use their?
Speaker 1:arrows with it. No, I used the bow and you know, yeah, she did it. That kind of seems a lot, though the most thing I've ever shot is a beauty gun.
Speaker 3:to be honest, this is an immediate red flag for the detectives. Gregory had listed his bow as one of the items that were stolen from his house. If Dylan has possession of the bow, that means either he stole it or Gregory lied to the sergeant.
Speaker 2:I'm going to ask you a couple more things. I'm swearing from the information you're about to give me. Is that correct? Yes, sir, I'm going to bring the left schools together from that city. I'm sorry you didn't walk off campus today. I walked off campus. Did Gregory walk with you? I walked with Brian. Okay, you walked with Brian. And where did you walk to? To Brian's truck? Okay, to what? To the trucker? To the trucker. I went here, and what did you do when you got?
Speaker 1:here, I got in clothes. Okay, me and Brian grew up around and I went to work.
Speaker 3:Although Dylan is claiming that he's telling the truth, he's just trying to get the story as quickly starting to contradict Brian's.
Speaker 6:So I picked up Greg this morning, right After I picked up Dylan. And then there's morning times. I really don't talk to them, I just pick them up and bring them to school because I'm tired, I'm not a morning person at all. And then I went to school, went to my classes like usual Lunchtime, I saw them, okay, and then after lunch that's really like one of the last times I saw them, so Sometimes you leave school.
Speaker 2:What time?
Speaker 6:did you leave school? It's a night leave.
Speaker 3:Brian repeats the question here to give himself some time to think about his answer. He will repeat part of the question again in a moment, making you wonder why he needs to think about this answer when it should be easy to remember.
Speaker 2:I left after fifth period. Who would you take with you? With me?
Speaker 6:It was me, and Dylan and Greg, but I took him home. Where did you go? I took him back to his house.
Speaker 3:As the detectives continue to dig for the truth, Dylan eventually cracks.
Speaker 1:He walked off campus, went to his house. He gave me a stuff to hold. What stuff I can show you? Tell us what it is. He gave me his gaming laptop, his gaming PC. He gave me his phone that I borrowed Today.
Speaker 7:He gave you his personal computer too, and the bow and the bow. Why did he give you this? So it's a laptop, a gaming laptop the PC and the bow.
Speaker 1:It's a gaming PC.
Speaker 7:Okay, gaming PC, a bow and what else Don't know what else.
Speaker 2:What's that? The little one.
Speaker 7:Why did he give him to you? Did he tell you?
Speaker 1:He said he was in trouble, so he gave me it and I drove off. I came here, I put it in my closet and I went to work. After he gave me the stuff, I went to work. I didn't do anything else I have a job to do.
Speaker 2:Why did he say he was giving you that stuff? What kind of trouble is he in.
Speaker 1:I don't know what kind of trouble is he in, but he got there and the house looked really torn up so he told me to take this stuff. I mean, I get what it was looking like.
Speaker 7:So you got to the house with Greg and Brian he's the driver. Did Brian get out? Did you all go inside the house?
Speaker 1:We got to the door, he ran in. I looked inside. I could see it all messed up. He ran out, gave me that, gave me the bow eat through a couple of the things that we ended up just throwing out. And then I came back here. What did you throw out? We threw out like a computer and a printer and just like small stuff like that.
Speaker 7:Throw it out where we just found a random dumpster and threw it in there. Where is this random dumpster? The Winn-Dixie parking lot?
Speaker 3:With this confession from Dylan, all of the supposedly stolen items mentioned by Gregory are now accounted for as detectives try to find out what kind of trouble Gregory might have been in. Dylan makes a shocking and disturbing confession.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry for lying, I know, but now's the time to get it all out, all of it. So tell us what happened.
Speaker 7:I mean, he's done this much. He's given you personal items for you to hide or to hold. That's not suspicious to you and it's not suspicious to you that you guys hold on.
Speaker 2:Dylan knows, he knows, he knows.
Speaker 7:Dylan, that's what happened. It's okay, man, it's not on you Pretty much.
Speaker 1:He and Brian, we were driving to school this morning and he called me and Brian and said hey, something big happened. He wouldn't say on the phone, so me and him had to go get him. Then he gets in the car and he says I did it, I really did it, I killed my mother. So we drove to school, we did the entire day. We left early and we get back to the house.
Speaker 2:He says take this, greg did say something happened to his mother. It was kind of fuzzy because he seemed like he was kind of shook and up. So he said something happened and, like I said, he was really shook and so he told me something about how his house is messed up. So we went over there and he asked if I could take some of his stuff. He said you need to get rid of some of the stuff in his house. So we go in there and we grab some of the stuff out of his house. So you did go in a house, yes, and we put it in the tracker and he told us what needed to be kept and what needed to be thrown away.
Speaker 2:So, we stopped and we threw away, like you said, the printer, the jukebox. Yeah, where else did we stop the church right up there in?
Speaker 6:Highbanks.
Speaker 2:What happened at the church? Buddy Greg had a.
Speaker 6:He put one of the like a trunk. He put that in the water. What was? In the trunk, buddy A whole bunch of random stuff Like just junk. John VG like a garage hell.
Speaker 3:After hours of investigation, interrogation and turmoil, detectives finally are getting to the truth. Despite having this horrid information, there's still so much they need to know. But Brian is still reluctant to admit one crucial detail.
Speaker 5:What was said? What did Greg tell you? Don't cover up for Greg, If he said it then he said it and then you know you did what you did and that can be explained. But don't sit here and just continue to lie to us. All right, Okay, you and Greg are both. There's more than one person here, it's not just you. Remember that?
Speaker 3:By stating there's more than one person here, the detective is clearly using the prisoner's dilemma with Brian. There's two other parties involved. It's not just you, okay.
Speaker 7:So it's not like we came here blind looking for answers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can tell that by how much you guys already know and all that. So just tell us what he said. He said that he's telling me like I argument, not really argument, but he he did. He told me that like it's hard to say. It's honestly just said just said we probably already heard it. He said that he killed his mother, and I didn't really believe it.
Speaker 3:So okay, all right. With both boys having claimed that Gregory killed his mother, the detectives are inclined to believe that they're telling the truth. Although Brian is claiming that he didn't believe Gregory's claims, it's hard to imagine that he wouldn't get suspicious after helping stage the crime scene. No matter what Brian or Dylan want to believe, they helped their friend cover up the brutal and shocking murder of his own mother. As the detectives prepare to inform Sergeant Pagliari about what they've learned, one of them notices that Dylan isn't doing too well.
Speaker 7:Yeah, Are you okay? I know your history. I don't want to. I just want to make sure that you're not thinking about harming yourself or anything. Dylan, are you okay? I know it's tough. You're letting me think for it. You don't feel anything for what? What do you mean? You don't feel anything for it.
Speaker 1:There's like a part of you that knows I shouldn't feel bad, but I can't feel anything for it. Hey, what do you?
Speaker 7:do Listen, just do what you're doing, sitting here talking to me. Okay, I can understand. You're probably not feeling anything because you haven't really processed it yet. You haven't processed what happened.
Speaker 3:While one detective comforts Dylan, the other is quick to get Sergeant Pagliari on the phone and let him know what they've discovered. Armed with this new information, pagliari sits down for one final confrontation with Gregory. But even with everything they know, none of them could have been prepared for what exactly Gregory would say.
Speaker 6:Do you think and I'm going to ask you this, I've asked this before, okay, because in your heart, supports looking at me face to face are you a man of integrity? You know what that is? I do know what it is, okay. Are you a person of integrity? I don't think I have the best character. I think I have character flaws, but I'm not up and up. Actually, I try to be as honest as possible and when I'm not, it's because I'm being selfish. Am I going to admit that? Okay, I tend to be selfish and that's the problem I have. But, okay, yeah. Well, here's what I want to do. I want you to look at me right now. I want you to look at me right now. It's like this and I'm going to ask you did you kill your mother? Take things from your house, distribute them amongst your friends, come in here today and lie to my face and say that you didn't do that. No, know what I didn't do, that you didn't kill your mother? No, okay.
Speaker 3:Notice Gregory's complete stillness. He's working as hard as possible to lie. He's making constant, intense eye contact and then has no reaction to the accusation. An innocent person would be furious or completely shocked at being accused, Angry, their friends turned on them. It would show, but from Gregory we see almost nothing.
Speaker 6:All right, so sit back down. I don't believe you. Why. Well, the good news about it is that all those things that were missing from your house, we found them when you tell me. I'll give you a clue it's one of your buddies. Are you saying my friends robbed my house? Is that what you took out of this? Is that I'm saying that your friends robbed your house? The same friends who, by the way, were at school all day and who dropped you off. I'll refer to you a little map here, but remember this they dropped you right here on high banks and whatever hell this road is, and I asked you earlier.
Speaker 6:Is it possible that your two friends could have went to your home's house and killed your mom and taken those things?
Speaker 4:And I did.
Speaker 6:You said that's impossible because they would have been driven past you and then you would have solved. The time is up, greg. The time is up. We found the stuff, ok. Ok, your buddies turned us on to it. Now you need to tell me what happened because they've already told me what happened.
Speaker 6:Told my pals what happened. So you need to come to Jesus. You're a religious man. You prayed with your mom. You need to tell me what happened. So what did they tell you? I'm not telling you what they told me. I'm telling you what they told me. You tell me what happened. I already told you what happened. Tell me you didn't kill your mother. I didn't. Who killed your mother? I have zero clue.
Speaker 4:Who took this shit?
Speaker 6:in your house. Well, you just told me Apparently it was my friends. And when did they think they did that? I have zero fucking clue. Do you honestly believe the things that are coming out of your mouth? Yeah, so when your buddy says that you told him you killed your mother, he's lying.
Speaker 3:After being backed into a corner, Gregory remains silent for quite a while before something snaps inside him and divulges one of the most chilling confessions we've ever heard.
Speaker 6:Good, whatever. All right, I'll tell you what happened, all right. So I got home, I got an argument with my mom. She slapped me across the face, she began to hit me, she started beating me. I didn't like it, so I strangled her to death. I put her in a wheelbarrow. I put her in my car. I took the car. I had a mental breakdown where I was coming in three times.
Speaker 3:As he talks, gregory adds in I almost had a mental breakdown and thought about taking his own life. Even as he's in the middle of admitting to killing his mom, he still wants to appear to be the victim. This is very classic narcissistic thinking and behavior.
Speaker 6:I drove around Daytona, I dropped the wheelbarrow in some random ass location and I drove back to the church. I began to dig a hole. I dig a hole right under the fire pit. I dug a pretty deep hole, pretty deep. I mean, I didn't even have to put a body in. All right, all this time my mom was digging a building body. I dragged it from my car to the fire pit, in which case I tried to cut the wedding ring off her finger because I wanted to pawn it, but I couldn't because I didn't have his nice strong up to cut bones. Oh well, whatever, anyways. So I dug that hole through her body in there, still, the back end, made a little nice natural, dumped my clothes and then I went home and I carved a ride to school with my friends.
Speaker 6:And yeah and yeah, what about the part that you staged a crime scene? Oh, yeah, I forgot about that part. Oh, so in the middle of the night I realized that, hey, my mom just up and disappears. That's not going to make any sense. So I decided I could look like a boxed robbery. So I just went to my house and I just started searching everywhere which looked pretty convincing. And yeah and yeah, again, not what I want to hear. Why did you drag your two buddies into this and give them the stolen shit? Because I needed to get rid of it.
Speaker 3:Gregory's complete lack of remorse is disturbing to say the least, and it only gets more horrifying as he doubles down.
Speaker 6:I think it's a realize that, like my mom beating up and hating on me, it wasn't like me being like, oh, I've waited ages for this and then I kill her. No, this was extremely out of impulse, out of me getting beaten this fucking time to me. I just was like you know, I'm done with it. So I grabbed her neck and I strangled her. So it was out of complete impulse, which doesn't make anything better, but one of the minor areas. I was shaken up, obviously. So your mother talked to your father on the phone.
Speaker 6:When did you strangle your mother? I don't know? 12?, 13. Where was she at when you did it? What? Where was she In the room? Which room? Her room? Sleeping? No, she woke up. She woke up after you had your hands around her throat. No, she woke up when I entered her room. And what happened then? She said what are you doing? What did you say? And I said listen, you have to understand that I was not. The stuff that I was on my face right now is a lot worse and I wasn't feeling good. And I said why'd you have to hit me? I said you said that you wouldn't do that again, but you did it anyways. Why'd you have to do that? And she's like well, whatever, blah, blah, you stop. And whatever.
Speaker 6:Blah, blah, blah. We've covered that. I don't want to hear what she said. She was like, well, you're being a dick and I? Is that really boring? No, no, oh yeah, it's important.
Speaker 4:I want you to tell me.
Speaker 6:No, does that really warrant? Not important, does that really warrant? I wasn't being a dick. I already explained to you the conversation that I had with her. All right, it's still about my biograde, it's still about all that shit, right, and it's the same conversation I had with her. But yeah, it's the same conversation, it's just like I said. I escalated the screaming and yelling and then she started hitting me and I did not hit back. I've not punched her back Because, like I said, I wouldn't do that.
Speaker 3:Gregory is making a lot of referral statements by saying, like I said over and over, he's trying to find a way to maintain his story wasn't complete lies by pointing out the pieces of truth he said before.
Speaker 6:Until I realized that if I let her keep on beating me around and basically letting her just do whatever she wanted, that eventually it was going to be me or her, and so I made the decision.
Speaker 3:According to Gregory, his mother's murder was a preemptive self-defense, but that doesn't justify such a horrifying and unforgivable crime. He continues to share more grisly details of the cold-blooded attack.
Speaker 6:Put your hands around her neck, she facing you when you did it. Yeah, you put your. You extend your arms and put your hands around her throat, yes, and squeeze, yeah, what did she do? I mean, what can you do in that situation? You tell me what she was doing. Well, I forced her onto the ground and I was strangling her. And I mean, she was trying, she was climbing my arm, she was whatever. I mean, you can probably see in my hand where, in this crease here, I was putting so much stress on it because I was over. I was over and I realized that it was either her getting so angry at me one day that she just take that a kitchen knife and stabs me, or it was me getting so angry with her that I strangled her to death. So I took the lighter because I don't play on. I don't play on. I didn't want her to kill me. I didn't think that was fitting, I wouldn't have worked out.
Speaker 3:So I just took action and said Gregory seems to really struggle to come up with an explanation here. I didn't think that was fitting is particularly odd phrasing in the middle of a confession, Though he admitted he killed her. He's trying his hardest to make itself defense with a round about justification, Though it sounds completely unbelievable. It's likely he's probably actually convinced himself of this.
Speaker 6:You throw her, you force her to the floor and you choke the life out of her. How'd that make you feel? I felt nothing? How long did it take? 30 minutes. You choked your mother on the floor to death for 30 minutes. Yeah, how'd you know she was dead? Ok, well, actually we were really lonely and rephrased this I choked her to death and I thought she was dead and I went to go get the whale barrel and then she was moving, so I had to get back on top of her and finish the job and then, once she was resisting when I was dragging her dead body across the floor, I knew she was dead.
Speaker 3:Gregory continues with his crude and detached tone as he describes how he disposed of his mother's body.
Speaker 6:Well, I listened. Dead bodies are heavy, they're a pain in the ass to carry. I was like, all right, well, this is easy, simple environment to carry. Right, I'm just going to pick her up, whatever, bring her to the car, throw her in there. Now, this is heavy. So I got the whale barrel, I drove her out to the stairs and then I positioned the whale barrel in the way so I could basically muscle her body into the whale barrel, just perfect enough to where I could get her into the car, actually into the whale barrel, without having to, you know whatever, break my back.
Speaker 6:Ok, so you take her to the car. Where do you put her in the minivan? I just shoved her in there In the very back. Yeah, open up the trunk, just kind of. I put two belts around her legs and I dragged her into the car. Two belts around her legs and dragged her into the car. Yeah, tied, two belts. I had like a belt around her ankle and a belt around her ankle and I had them together and I used those. I had like a crotch.
Speaker 6:So you were in the van and just dragged her like from the inside the van and dragged her from the wheel barrel into the back of the van. Yeah it was a bit to do, but yeah, I did it.
Speaker 3:As Gregory describes his next steps, we get a fascinating glimpse into the twisted mind of a teenage murderer.
Speaker 6:OK, so you pull her into the back of the car and then where do you go? Well, I threw a little girl in there and I was like and I got a shovel and I was like, ok, let's do this, whatever, it's easy, yeah, no, then I had to go to break down. I was like, holy shit, well, whatever, blah, blah, whatever. What's that mean? Fill it in Like you know, whatever, holy shit, what am I doing? And they know, or whatever, just ruin my future, blah, blah, blah, whatever.
Speaker 3:The repeated blah blah, blah statements show the fascinating but disturbing dichotomy of how Gregory presents his intelligent as well as very childish. This is the hallmark of most teens, but it's extremely chilling when tied to discussing murder.
Speaker 6:Basically, I was just coming to it. I was basically reasoning with myself do I deserve to live? And I realized that I did the thing I did Out of self-defense. I mean sure she wasn't hitting me in the moment, but it would eventually have gotten worse and worse and worse. It's always gotten worse and worse and worse over the years, but it was just a matter of time. I was on the highway, I was driving, and then I realized. Well, I had a lot of thoughts going through my head.
Speaker 6:My original thought was oh well, you know what, if I just dump my mom's body in some random last location with a wheelbarrow and then I just go make them on the run, just go on the run, right? And then I realized where the f**k would I go? I mean, I had my sister's house in Michigan, yeah, but she just turned me into the cops and whatever. I'm not going to get out of the country in whatever how many hours they find her body. So it's not worth it. And I was like, well, I could just go into oncoming traffic. I mean, it's really busy in this area for some reason. I could just move my car into oncoming traffic and myself. And I was like, nah, it's a pussy ass way to go, I'm not going to do that, all right. So I decided, well, okay, well, I guess we're just back at square one. So I'm going to go back to where I started.
Speaker 3:Gregory continues to narrate the account, and he doesn't hesitate to share the disgusting details about what he did to his mother's body.
Speaker 6:I'm going to put the body back to the church and the whole. Realize that my phone flashlight is not going to be enough. Go back to the house, get a new flashlight. And this is, by the way, this is me. This is the when I'm talking about me going back to my house to get money. It's just me trying to make excuses for my phone being in certain places. I should have just crashed my phone, like I did with my moms, but I didn't really want to do that because, also, there's been music and I would have ran. I was going to get caught anyway. So it's an appointment, and so I get. I get a couple candles, get flashlights, I get whatever. And I get the aerial up. Dig, dig, dig, dig. Realize that the body smells terrible. It smells like shit. Jesus Christ, do you smell a dead body? Do?
Speaker 4:you smell a dead body.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I smell a dead body. Yeah.
Speaker 6:I smell like shit.
Speaker 3:Casually listening to music while digging a grave and be so comfortable discussing the smell of his mother's dead body show his complete lack of empathy beyond the remorselessness he's displayed so far.
Speaker 6:So I was like, okay, you get something to clean up. So I went to my house, greg, I kind of bleached and I was like, okay, when I just when I get the body in there, I'll pour a bit of John in and make it smell sterile before I cover the back of the third. I was like that seems like a pretty good plan, whatever.
Speaker 3:There's been another shift in Gregory's speech patterns. As soon as he decided to confess, he's now talking a lot faster. This is most likely his normal way of talking, as before he was concentrating on being deceptive.
Speaker 6:So I did the whole. It's like what? 430? And I was like, all right, so we dumped the body in and we filled back up and then 530, put back. So we myself Okay, so you're talking about we being too yourself, nobody else's, this is just you, yes, it's me. So, anyways, we dumped the whole, so kicked the body in the hole, but it doesn't fit. So I had to. I had to. I had a primer in there. I don't know if I broke any bones, whatever. Pour the bleach on her, put the dirt over her, and I mean, when you go out there, you'll see it. It looks perfectly natural. It doesn't look like there's anything. And you can ask the whole what'd you do? Well, it was a fire pit. So I literally just you're literally back on it Move the rocks around. It looks perfectly fine. So she's in the fire pit, under the fire pit, yeah.
Speaker 3:And yet another shocking twist. Gail's body wasn't the only thing. Gregory hid in the woods that night.
Speaker 6:What else is in the woods? What else is in there, the perium? I used to sweep the drag marks away Because when you're dragging a dead body, I trashed the wheelbarrow on all heels, which is dumbass move, because I still needed to get the body out from the trunk of my car and bring it down to this area. Right, I realized whatever, blah, blah, dumb, dumb, dumb. So if I had wasted maybe an hour and a half, I probably would have gotten away with it, but I did waste an hour and a half because I needed to come to terms with what I did. Anyways, I dragged her body with the two-pill. If I had tied her ankles, I dragged it all the way to the fire pit and you know like when you're dragging a dead body on leaves and palm fronds and whatnot, that collects quite a lot of shit, to be frank. So, was there anything else? I mean, you said there's a shovel in the woods, a broom in the woods. How about any of the stolen stuff that you took from the woods? Well, they're marked. Yeah, they're stolen. There's nothing big. It's like all the small shit and I just kind of chucked it in there because no one else wanted it and I needed to get rid of it. So there's a cache of stolen shit in the lake behind the fire pit, but it's probably all whatever. By the way, in the woods by the fire pit, I don't know, I couldn't point out to you really, but there is two laptops and the 30 caliber gun right behind the fire pit in the woods and obviously you know the rest of stuff is.
Speaker 6:I do Go back to before. You left your house with your mother's body in the van, you started staging the crime scene, is that right? You said you took someone's stolen shit out yeah, but not stolen. You took the. What did you take out of the house first, and then what? Your mother's body was in the van? Well, I just kind of figured like whoa, I need to get everything out. I was like, well, not everything, but, like you know, I was like how can I make this look legit? I was like I can't just like make my mom disappear and then like head to school and be like, oh, everything's okay, like that's not going to work. So I need to make it look like something happened, like a botched robbery or something. And you got to admit I don't know if you saw the house. Do you see the house I'm going to send you, though I need your work. It looks quite nice. Okay, it looks quite legit, it's weird.
Speaker 4:Why is there all this crap up here spilled?
Speaker 7:There's a broken glass here. Oh yeah.
Speaker 3:It looks so legit. That's why Gregory immediately ended up in the interrogation room confessing right now.
Speaker 6:Basically, I just have everything and I grabbed everything of value and I kind of just threw it in the van and yeah, as Sergeant Pagliari works to understand the rest of this disturbing story, gregory takes every opportunity to flaunt his horrendous ego.
Speaker 6:Now some of the stuff you gave to your friends. So when did you give some of your stuff to your friends? After school? After school, yeah, I needed it. There wasn't any time. I was planning what I was going to plan to do. I was going to drive up to the sun rail and leave my mom's car there and dump the bike somewhere and make it look like she went to Orlando, and then she just got whatever. And I think, actually, if I hadn't made the botched robbery and I just kind of drove the car up there and lost the bike and gotten picked up by my friends and we got like just kept hush hush about it and I killed my mom and put her under the fire pit, and you guys probably wouldn't have ever caught me, because you probably think that she got mugged in Orlando and died and that probably would have made a lot more sense. But I didn't think it through because I was impulse thinking and I was doing everything on a whim. So if I had more time to think it through, I probably would have done everything. But that's whatever.
Speaker 6:Okay, so you went to school though. Oh yeah, how did you get to school? Brian built it for me up in front of my house. I was wearing jeans covered in dirt as well as boots covered in dirt. You'll find those in the woods with the broom and the shovel, but I was wearing a shirt. I just grabbed a random shirt and some soap and a washcloth and then, when I got to school, I wiped all the dirt off me, the excess blood that was on my face from my mom hitting me, and I cleaned myself up and then I went to school and I think nothing happened. So then you go to school like nothing's up. Right, let's just go to class for a little while, right? Yeah, of course, my last day as a free man, my little didgeridoo.
Speaker 6:Okay, so what's your second body of friends? Marla, I should thank you, whatever. Well, you're two best buds and ones you really care about. Right, I know they screwed me over in the end, so that's whatever. Well, we'll first keep the secret, greg, yeah, when did they find out that you killed your mom? When they picked me up because I was covered in blood, which was my blood. But I was covered in blood and dirt and I wasn't wearing a shirt and I had soap, and they were like what the f*** happened? And I was like well, brian, I called you last night and he's like, yeah, I know. And I told Dylan Okay, what was their reaction? I don't know, tell me. Scrugged, elaborated, they didn't care. They didn't care, they thought you were full of s***. I mean, well, yeah, they thought I was full of s*** and they were talking back to where.
Speaker 6:I did it, which was after school, yeah, and then after school, you took them to the church, yeah, and then you just started giving out s***. Yeah, I said, okay, what you want, knowing that your mother was dead, and you told them take what you want. And they were good with that, yeah, they were good. Who took what? I don't know? Who called?
Speaker 3:I don't know and you know again, I did not tell them first.
Speaker 6:I had something in the door I thought you were supposed to call, which are just not true.
Speaker 3:How did you know Right it?
Speaker 6:was me when they did the things Gotta tell you arrested and asked honestly, how did you improve in helping take? What you know in my case is they said it wasn't fear, impressive. Okay, you guys have some video or thing. Do you like me much? No, I wish I had it on video. That would be great. But now, but I'm sure if you dust your footprints on the door you'll find their shoes. Okay, You'll find it all over the house as well. But then we went to my mom's room. We got the gloves gift and gloves, because they didn't want to get their fingerprints on anything, even though they already kicked the door open and whatnot, but and even though they're already like basically helping me do this, whatever, as the interrogation comes to a close, Gregory once again displays his astonishing apathy towards his mother's death.
Speaker 6:So am I going to go to prison or what? What's up? Well, what's going to happen is I have to obviously live. Someone from the state attorney's office know about today's events and then we'll go from there. So I don't have there's no end game as far as what's going to happening to you. And your question is like what? Prison or a jazz, I don't know, but you will be arrested. Well, yeah, obviously, but like this, I'm a minor. Can I even go to prison?
Speaker 1:Is it like a thing About.
Speaker 6:I don't know Again. I'm just the person who gets the facts and presents out Is that a thing Again, all we're going to do.
Speaker 6:the second judge and I are just here to get the facts of the case. We present our findings to the legal part of those things, which that's not me. So, since I'm in the police station, are you ready to handcuff? No, I guess you probably be handcuffed at some point. Yeah, no, bro, and then I get back to the century. You should give me a Grammy for that 911 call. You should give it a listen. It's quite nice.
Speaker 3:Though Gregory is bragging about his 911 call, it's actually something that gave him away from the beginning. When he was asked where the emergency was, he immediately launched into his story, which is an instant red flag 911,.
Speaker 4:Where's your emergency? I just got home and my house is completely trashed. It looks like someone broke into the side door.
Speaker 3:An innocent person is interested in help, not telling a story. It's incredible that the detectives can keep a straight face listening to him. Before officially arresting Gregory, the sergeant has one last question for him.
Speaker 6:You take a little bit of broad and what you do. That's fine. You know what it is, what it is right. Are you willing to go with us and show us where, at the church, where you put her and everything? Do a?
Speaker 6:little reenactment of what happened. So again, if you're willing to drive with us, I'll sit with you in the backseat of a patrol car uniform deputy, we'll come in and handcuff you, of course, and put you back there with me and then you'll just take us over to the church and then we'll get out and do a little video reenactment of the scene over there and just kind of go through some things, tell us what you were thinking. That's all I'm looking to do at this point. You want to do that? I'll be down.
Speaker 6:You're down, yeah, okay.
Speaker 3:After arriving at the church, Gregory leads the officers to the burial side.
Speaker 6:Drop and then I put my originally, I put my phone. I um, I can find you this. Are your phones out here? Well, no, it's not. Oh, whatever, there was a. What did they find this stuff back here? We probably found a few things.
Speaker 2:Go ahead.
Speaker 6:what you recall All right, well, whatever this, um, did you guys find the gun back here? Did we find a gun back here? It's okay, there's one back there. Yeah, we did. Yeah, a rifle. Yeah, you found the laptops as well, I believe. So, sir, all right, sounds good. Okay, so, yeah, whatever, I set my phone so I get some light, but then I realized I needed more, so I had to go back to my house and get more. But tell me, tell me how you dug the hole. Talk about that. Okay. So when I dug it, up Okay.
Speaker 6:All right. And then, how did you put your mother's body in the hole? How was she oriented? Would she face up, is she? Uh, I, okay. So originally I was going to put her in legs first and I realized that was a bad idea.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 6:So I put her in head first and then I folded her legs and you're going to, when you, when you dig her up, whenever you do that, the you'll find the legs first, which should make it easier for you to pull it out. But, okay, how big a hole are we talking about here, greg? Pretty big. Well, I mean, let's say, circumference wise, if you had to put your math guy, well, I mean, you guys got rid of the fire pit, but it was the circumference of the fire pit. That's what it, the whole thing, was just circumference of the fire pit, yeah, and then it kind of combed down. Did you get tired? Well, yeah, that, and I was on a time limit.
Speaker 6:Okay, all right, Detective Escobar, just so you're aware of Greg Strangled, or the two hands on her neck, go ahead, I'll start with one. Then I thought two, two's better than one. Okay, all right, and that that was two on both times. You choked your. Well, I will. Yeah, well, I. She was like up against the wall and I was on my house. I'd show you. But, uh, it was. It was interesting, no, I just want to know. So, against the wall standing up and then on the floor. Well, I had her up against the wall on the floor, against the wall on the floor.
Speaker 6:If you can make sense it does, it doesn't make sense it's hard to, it's hard to make sense.
Speaker 2:Well, it's her head up against the wall and her body was on the floor.
Speaker 6:Yeah, like you had her like pinned in the corner.
Speaker 4:I had her in a corner.
Speaker 6:I had her in a corner again Of the wall on the floor. Yeah, there you go. Bedroom right, master bedroom. Yeah, you can see when you go in there, the beds tilted. We started on the bed. We struggled off the bed onto the left side and more seated together, okay.
Speaker 3:While Gregory leads the officers through the woods, Brian and Dylan sit together in the back of a nearby patrol car. As the boys talk about their current situation, seeming not to realize they're being recorded, it becomes very clear that they don't understand the consequences they'll soon be facing.
Speaker 1:I told the entire thing because they knew it already. I haven't been in cuffs only, and then she puts me in cuffs.
Speaker 2:But you were in cuffs. Yeah, dude, they shut up and I was okay. And then the occupations were in cuffs. They transported me with alcohol. I'm like wait, so like Dylan. So the officer was like no, they're with our other detectives. It was like he fired a police station. So they call my father. Oh no, yeah, yeah, I call my father.
Speaker 6:My father knows that I'm involved in this.
Speaker 2:I'm going to shoot out when I get home and I'm not going to get a birthday or Christmas or anything. I'm going to be grounded for the next 10 years, and this owned by my entire family.
Speaker 1:Dude, I'm not even getting the word. Come on, someone's about to get fired, dude. No, we had that job. Oh man, we're making 15 an hour. Come on, guys, this is important. Yeah, it was 15 an hour. Wait, are we not able to do anymore? I can't be done by any means.
Speaker 2:Well, don't worry, I'm over there, I'll live the willpower stamp. So long, oh how it's working.
Speaker 1:You have to be there 11 o'clock till around 7 o'clock, yeah, but it's eight times 15. It's 140.
Speaker 2:Beach that's getting a lot. I can go by that little jack-toss.
Speaker 3:It seems that the concept of serving jail time for their crimes doesn't even cross the boys' minds. Is this just a sign of their immaturity, or do the two really feel that they haven't committed a crime by helping Greg cover up his mother's murder?
Speaker 1:Is that Greg? That's not Greg. That guy's too tall and skinny. No, it's Greg. Look at his limb. Yeah, it gets to point out where the body is. That's Greg. That's Greg. Mine, I know, he's not even mine. Like, honestly, look at what mess we're in. Like I'll do a lot of things for a friend.
Speaker 2:I was under the impression now that they get some property.
Speaker 6:I got some speakers out of it. I was enjoying those tonight. I was kind of drunk. He should ask.
Speaker 3:The complete lack of accountability from Dylan and Brian is appalling. However, their utter absence of remorse only becomes more apparent when they bizarrely decide to sing Alien Boy by Oliver Tree.
Speaker 2:I was sitting there singing Bruno Mars and all that just like blasting the speakers. I had them all hooked up and it looked nice in my room. I fell down. I was listening to that till three doors down, so you can't ignore it. I'll hunt you down like.
Speaker 1:Tyrannosaurus.
Speaker 3:Eventually, all three boys are transported back to the police station. After a hectic night of processing, gregory, dylan and Brian are reunited in the back of a patrol car and transported to the Department of Juvenile Justice where, it's very clear, they have no idea they're being recorded.
Speaker 2:Because, like I was asking for a bottle of water, so much the one that he was like the water's in that fountain right there and I'm just like I'm not drinking out of that, like I'm just going to get a straight from drinking in that one, I know.
Speaker 4:That's just. You have handcuffs in spell, Like where they bring your mind to.
Speaker 2:In front.
Speaker 6:Okay, I was gonna say there but, how the hell are you gonna do that? Have I got to do some like rubbish?
Speaker 2:Oh no, when I, when I did like flush toilet, I literally had to like kick the button pretty much.
Speaker 1:Y'all need to be quiet for one second One. Delta 65 Central. Three juvenile males in row, two DJJ starting mile, which is five, eight one. All right, you guys can go ahead and talk to one.
Speaker 2:Two oh, I was not sitting down on that toilet and there's like steel and there's white stuff all over the toilet and just like I'll pass up that, what's my dad doing?
Speaker 6:What's my dad doing what my family's in here? I guess they just told me already.
Speaker 1:You're Brian. What yeah, brian? Now they have a lawyer, they're with a lawyer, with you Hold my family.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess I'm not gonna. I'm gonna get disowned anyway.
Speaker 3:The lawyer is to get me to selling the more time the three boys spend reunited, the less remorse they seem to have.
Speaker 2:I was a breast to know my grandma's birthday Last night. Last night was my grandma's birthday. I got to see her and said Happy Birthday first. Oh my God, kat's gonna kill me. She freaked out when I didn't answer her for 30 minutes.
Speaker 3:She had, every once she knew, blow up my phone and she called me like 30 times and texted me about 100 times instead of being worried about what Kat will think of him after she learns about the horrible things he's done, brian only cares about her being mad at him for not responding to her texts. This just showcases the utter lack of understanding from the boys.
Speaker 2:I'm ready to die. I get slapped about 30 times, want to get back to school.
Speaker 1:Shit, Dude me and you are gonna fall back to campus.
Speaker 2:I had online work I had to do. I'm worried about school still graduating, you know, yeah um, I'm gonna hold the list.
Speaker 6:What? I'm gonna hold the list. I'm gonna hold the list, Okay.
Speaker 2:Brian that means I can't graduate. It's my senior year. I'm gonna have a school certificate this year.
Speaker 3:For the first time. It seems as though the boys may be starting to realize that their disturbing actions will have long term consequences. School friends and life as these boys know it will now be changed forever. Not long after arriving at the juvenile center, brian's family posted his $100,000 bond. In the three and a half years prior to their court date, brian finished high school, started college and was employed. On the other hand, dylan wasn't offered a bond for 309 days as the court was concerned that his history of mental health issues may lead him to hurt himself. When he finally was given a bond, it was $200,000, meaning there was essentially no way for him to post his bail. For his part in the crime, dylan was sentenced to 828 days in jail, followed by 10 years of probation.
Speaker 3:Despite both boys having been charged with accessory after the fact of second degree murder, brian was given a different sentence. At his hearing, gale's sister spoke on the pain their family had suffered as a result of the actions taken by Gregory, dylan and Brian. In response, brian said that he was sorry the tragic killing had happened, but that he was simply naive at the time and didn't take Gregory's murderous claim seriously. Even at his sentencing it seemed that Brian was wholly unwilling to take full accountability for his actions. In the end, he was sentenced to 14 years of probation, with the first 364 days of that term being served in the Volusia County Jail. According to Volusia County Sheriff Mike Chitwood, gregory Ramos is one of the top three sociopaths he's ever come in contact with, and it's easy to see why. For the brutal slaying of his mother, gregory was charged as an adult and was sentenced to 45 years in prison, while his sentence can be reviewed again in 25 years. Gregory will serve a lifetime probation no matter what.