15. The Shakespeare Link with Phil Bowen and Sue Best

Phil Bowen and Sue Best, the couple behind The Shakepseare Link, tell Anjna all about setting up their remarkable charity, building their stunning replica of Shakespeare's Globe out of willow, and their exciting adventures in the digital world.

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Transcript

Anjna Chouhan (00:00):

Welcome to Shakespeare Alive, a podcast from The Shakespeare Birthplace Trust.

Anjna Chouhan (00:13):

My name's Anjna and I'm joined today by a terrific couple: much loved actor, Phil Bowen and director Sue best whose collective CVs boast time with the RSC, the English Shakespeare Company, The Royal Opera House and The Old Vic. So back in 1992, Phil and Sue founded their company, The Shakespeare Link. In a self-professed ambition to make, and I quote, "a reactive theatre company, client led, fully professional but a bit maverick and free to respond to request, initiate own work, think outside the box and share ideas.

Anjna Chouhan (00:54):

So they've certainly been fulfilling this dream ever since. They've been touring worldwide and providing crucial resources for their community in Powys, Wales, where they've built the magical Willow Globe made entirely out of Willow. Within which touring companies, community groups, and schools all perform between April and September. Now, obviously COVID presented challenges to The Shakespeare Link, but that didn't stop Phil and Sue from pushing on ahead. Collaborating, theatre making and educating in this new digital world.

Anjna Chouhan (01:32):

They hosted a big online birthday bash in April 2021, as well as being part of The London Globe theatre's Globe for Globe conference about Shakespeare and climate emergency, which was also part of the worldwide celebrations to mark Shakespeare's 457th birthday. So Sue and Phil, thank you so much for joining us on Shakespeare alive it really is an honor to have you both with us. May I start us off just by asking you to tell me each what your route to Shakespeare was? Sue, why don't we start with you?

Sue Best (02:07):

Well, the thing is that Shakespeare's always been a feature in my life because I came to, quite young, I think almost as soon as I could read, because there happened to be some Shakespeare lying around at home and you know... You just read what you read when your little. So I came across Shakespeare pretty early. Then of course we did it at school and then I read English at Cambridge and did loads and loads of open air Shakespeare myself then played at the [inaudible 00:02:35] . And then afterwards, I just always worked in the theatre.

Sue Best (02:39):

I started actually working at the RSC, one of the early, early TiE groups it was called [Theatre Garande 00:02:45] . You had Terry Hands was our director when I joined it. I was a kind of liaison officer and I had a double-decker bus and we used to drive around all the school in London and in the Midlands. Just visiting schools with an exhibition and shows and stuff. So John Barton was there and all those amazing guys, so it was interesting at the time.

Anjna Chouhan (03:11):

Terry Hands, John Barton, Bogdanov as well, you've worked with too.

Sue Best (03:15):

Oh he was so great natured, Well Phil - he was your great mate. Well you must talk about about you....

Anjna Chouhan (03:20):

Yes Phil, Tell us about what your route to Shakespeare was.

Phil Bowen (03:24):

Well, I'm a Brummie and it was when I was about 13 or so I was at school and part of a Shakespeare reading group. And I can remember reading Richard II with the group and it was absolutely amazing, just absolutely hit me. And I would go to the theatre, the Old Birmingham Rec was our local theatre. And I worked there when I was about 18, I think. And I worked in the flies. It was ,an amazing theatre then really terrific. Then I went to university and then to drama school, then later on I met Bodger - worked for him first '71 or '72. And I've been doing Shakespeare and stuff ever since.

Anjna Chouhan (04:13):

Shakespeare and stuff, I love it. And is Bodger a nickname for Michael Bogdanov?

Phil Bowen (04:19):

Well, Bodger was what he was called, yeah.

Anjna Chouhan (04:22):

That's lovely-

Phil Bowen (04:23):

He was an amazing man, did you know him?

Anjna Chouhan (04:25):

I only met him once, and very briefly.

Phil Bowen (04:28):

I worked with him first '71 or '72 in Newcastle. I did about a year and a half there, and then I went with him to Leicester where we were for a while. Then he went to The Young Vic, I played Hamlet for him there. And then I did a lot of traveling abroad doing Shakespeare, and then he asked me to be in the second year of his Wars of the Roses

Anjna Chouhan (04:55):

Wars of the Roses

Sue Best (04:55):

That's how we met isn't it? Because I was his staff director on that show, on that tour again we both joined at the same time.

Phil Bowen (05:06):

Yeah that's where we met and wanting to do Shakespeare and wanting to have a bit more control over the work. You know, it's always tricky as an actor. You're waiting for work and whatever comes you've got to take it, because it's work. And it's not really your choice, what it is.

Sue Best (05:26):

It was two things actually, because we took this great world tour of the history plays  particularly then to Australia. And Michael said to us, when we were about to go to Australia, he said, look I really think it'd be great to have a small company doing the work, wherever you're touring will you have a look about and see if there's somewhere that you could... Connections you could make, the different places you could play and we could take Shakespeare into unlikely and theatre, in different places.

Sue Best (05:58):

And that was a lovely thing to be doing, researching wherever we went. But when we actually got back to the UK again, we did have lots of ideas by then and stuff, but it turned out that actually the [ESC 00:06:12] remit was already too big and involved to take up all these smaller jobs.

Phil Bowen (06:17):

Well there was also the problem that we were planning something, which was to be done then, whereas the ESC was at the stage where it was putting their plans out for the next year. And it seemed to be clogged down by a bigger organization. We felt it wasn't absolutely what Bodger had asked us to do originally. .So we started doing things on our own. Then we realized that we needed to call ourselves something, and we needed to get registered in some way in order to get hold of any money, so we became a charity. And so we-

Sue Best (07:04):

The thing is that we discovered that we needed to have some finances, we needed to become a charity really. Because lots of people will give you money, but not just you yourself, you have to become a charity.

Anjna Chouhan (07:15):

And also to help you carve out a remit for what The Shakespeare Link was and what you wanted to achieve. You talk about doing Shakespeare in unlikely places Sue. So was that part of the ethos of The Shakespeare Link? Can you tell me a bit more about what you'd set out to achieve with the charity?

Sue Best (07:35):

So the thing is that we felt that there are loads of people doing Shakespeare and it's so interesting and exciting and never ending in interest, but there are also lots of other things you could do with it beyond this framework of academics and also beyond the big, wonderful theatres. Shakespeare's writing has an all reaching function, which is such a holistic and healing medium for communication, debate. And we found because Phil had done a lot of traveling about, and I had done a lot of traveling, and it's a kind of... It's a lingua franca around the world, everybody knows Shakespeare. So wherever you go in the world you've got a kind of contact and connection.

Phil Bowen (08:14):

There we're missing languages, Sign language was one of them.

Anjna Chouhan (08:18):

And there's British Sign language in particular.

Phil Bowen (08:21):

That's right, and so we've managed to hold three plays here in Wales. I think I'm right in saying that it's the first time that these deaf actors worked in their own language-

Anjna Chouhan (08:38):

Can I say about that as well? So it was through the ESC that we came across really the ESL translations. I was working on a production of Julius Caesar which had a signer. [John Lee 00:08:49] so he was completely bilingual and he was an amazing interpreter. Then we joined up with him, trying to find a way of translating into ESL. And we did these three shows with all deaf actors-

Phil Bowen (09:03):

Actually we did play Stratford.

Sue Best (09:06):

Oh you're right.

Phil Bowen (09:06):

We brought along the scene from The Tempest and we played, which theatre was it?

Sue Best (09:11):

Swan I think.

Phil Bowen (09:12):

Swan yeah, there was a deaf acting weekend I think.

Sue Best (09:19):

And it was a festival, we were going to try to go.

Phil Bowen (09:24):

Yes that's right.

Sue Best (09:24):

And we had all sorts of contributions, and we brought you some of our Tempest which we just released.

Anjna Chouhan (09:27):

There's a video on your website, isn't there about the BS... Is it the Twelfth Night video?

Sue Best (09:33):

That's right, it's the sound of silence. That's the one you could see.

Anjna Chouhan (09:37):

Yes. So if our listeners are interested in the BSL project, they could go to the website, the Willow Globe's website-

Sue Best (09:47):

That was show it to them.

Anjna Chouhan (09:47):

And that would show a video about the BSL project with Twelfth Night. How wonderful, that's lovely. And so while you've been in Wales and you've been working with The Shakespeare Link and developing your ambition to take Shakespeare into unlikely spaces, unlikely places, and to bring him to the public. You've been building and crafting your own theatre made entirely out of Willows. So please, can you tell us more about where the idea for the Willow globe came from and how it's evolved and what you're doing with it now?

Phil Bowen (10:22):

We had a trustees meeting in 2006 and we thought it was really time to have a theatre of our own. So we told the trustees that... And to start with , they were an absolutely wonderful collection of people, really brilliant.

Sue Best (10:44):

Well they said it's going to be quite expensive because you have to buy all the materials and get all the permissions and all that, but it was going to have to need a load [inaudible 00:10:50] and then planning. Planning the permissions and builders and somebody said, sort of as a joke really, one of the trustees mind you, "build it out of Willow", everybody had a laugh.

Phil Bowen (11:01):

Because there's a lot of Willow grown here, a bit of a Willow wood here. So we thought, well that's a good idea. We measured out a field that was on a slight fall down towards a brook and set up the Willow.

Sue Best (11:11):

We had our friend who's a biomass expert, it was just by chance, there's a Willow research station. They were looking at it as a biomass fuel, just down the road. Then we just told a few friends and what we were planning and volunteers came.

Sue Best (11:28):

Can I just say that we didn't know when we planted it, our friend who's this Willow expert said that we've never planted anything on this scale before. There are those huge old Willow structures, but they all were built with dead wood. It's 15 meters across I thinks, so she said, "we don't know how long it will last, and it could be only seven, we've never known anything last longer than seven years, when we've done this kind of work."

Anjna Chouhan (11:52):

So how has it been changing and developing over the years? Presumably you have to prune it?

Phil Bowen (11:59):

Yes, and about three or four years ago, we had to tear-

Sue Best (12:06):

It's in the middle of winter now so you have to wait for the sap to lie down and then it usually gets wet and very cold admitted. And it grows huge amounts, I don't know if you know much about willows but the throngs that grow off it grow 18 foot, 20 foot a year and that all has to come off. Or what happened when we first started, was that the early growth was woven in together to make wonderful arches and that became a very beautiful and increasingly tall structure. After about 10 years, we just had to cut it down. But also it'd become midge city, because we got midges and they would have all been bitten to death if it was closed and then the midges would get in.

Anjna Chouhan (12:50):

Well nobody would want that. And have there been any other unintended consequences of working within the Willow structure? So what sorts of things have you learned about performers inside that Willow structure?

Phil Bowen (12:58):

It's funny actually it's, well it changes through the year, depending on how the leaves are and how much water there is on the... I remember I did a number of seasons at the park in London and it was the best possible acoustic was just after rain, when the leaves are covered in water, but there's no rain falling and the air is still and the leaves behind you, just send the voices out with a clear air.

Phil Bowen (13:37):

It's interesting because we've tried a number of shows where there's been activity outside. You can see an army go past, half see them through the Willow, which is lovely. Your voice is similar, they have to carry as far as outside. But we haven't talked about during show... It's been some shows where it's been able to the scene in the Willow and then take another scene in the orchard beyond, then into the field and have to come back to the Willow again, by which time it's the evening [inaudible 00:14:15]. We have lighting, green electricity in the Willow itself and the lights come up and you come back into them for the last... I mean it's possible to do.

Anjna Chouhan (14:27):

How magical.

Sue Best (14:30):

When we did the factory abroad years ago they brought their artists and they started it in the theatre and then the second half we all went out to this huge bonfire and these ancient storytellers told the rest of the story in the dark, around the bonfire. It was gob smacking actually.

Sue Best (14:43):

It's an incredibly exciting space to play because there's so many options.

Phil Bowen (14:53):

When that happens, I'm really pleased because otherwise we've just got a theatre, which happens to be Willow, and happens to be in a field and one of the fields... It's more than that.

Sue Best (15:05):

We started it on the... We had the idea on the 4th of March and with all the help of the volunteers and the scurrying around, we actually opened on the 23rd, in time for Shakespeare's birthday, that was our focus. So it was a seven week, eight week build. I mean, it was amazing. And then of course it's Wales and it starts raining. So the first shows that we had in there the following year, because that first year was all about getting retrospective talent in the show, health and safety and fire, and all that sorts of stuff. But then the first time it actually rained on a show, one of ours. And We had to rush into this barn, where they'd been lamming that year. So the actors were on one end of the barn, and the other end of the barn was full of hay. So all the audience got [inaudible 00:15:49] pushed up in the hay. Most of our [inaudible 00:15:52] didn't like that.

Phil Bowen (15:53):

We now have a big tent, which we can go into if it's wet. It holds more people than the theatre does, in fact.

Sue Best (16:00):

The thing is though, why we wanted to focus on [inaudible 00:16:03] is because she's just the best, because it's just such a conduit to reality and truth, connection and everything that's, for us, valuable. And also we have this extraordinary joy, to visit here in a very beautiful place in connection with the air and the land wonders and the animals, and you have a London show you've got the red kite. It's very, very truthful, because it's done at that wonderful artifice of indoor theatre when everything is created, drawn from within, but hasn't got that actual connection to everything.

Phil Bowen (16:39):

It has to be done the right way. It's got to be done personally, it's got to scan, it's got to have all of that. And then it becomes so free, it opens up.

Sue Best (16:56):

That's what we're fighting [inaudible 00:16:58]. People's worried, they think it's so difficult and so impossible. And all you've got to do is to use that tool of the verse and it's there it's on your page.

Phil Bowen (17:07):

That's right, and children are not too young, they're not too young. There are Lots of things that children say, that they don't understand. So why not get them to say some verse? They won't understand it all, doesn't matter.

Anjna Chouhan (17:22):

Let's pause for a quick break.

Paul Edmondson (17:25):

If you've been enjoying Shakespeare alive, please remember to rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or on your usual podcast platform. And if you'd like to suggest guests for us to interview in our next series, please complete our survey by visiting shakespeare.org.uk/future. You can also connect with us on Twitter and Facebook, just remember to use the hashtag 'Shakespeare Alive'.

Anjna Chouhan (17:54):

You're listening to Shakespeare alive with me, Anjna, and I'm talking to Phil Bowen and Sue best of The Shakespeare Link telling me all about their wonderful Willow Globe.

Phil Bowen (18:05):

It's very difficult to answer questions to do with planning because we do plan, but our plans... If you've got an idea, you do it rather than put it into some great long process, and it takes a year and a half. Because ideas are to do with now, that's what's exciting, and what's also thrilling is that these plays, although they've been around for years, they're now as well. And we did a play called Say Amen, which were the last two words of Richard The Third, and in that show we did some Shakespeare, we came out of it and discussed things with the audience. We started rehearsal, it was the day of the second-

Sue Best (18:52):

It was the Gulf War.

Phil Bowen (18:54):

Gulf War, wasn't it. So the whole thing became about the Gulf War.

Sue Best (18:59):

It wasn't about the Gulf War itself it was about honor and [inaudible 00:19:04] and what people would go through in a war. And it was like at peace.

Phil Bowen (19:07):

Took the show around America and played Canada too, with it. And it was very, very interesting. It never stopped, the show. It developed as we were on the road because the events were developing. That's what's so thrilling, and is so thrilling about Shakespeare too, it isn't something that stops. You rehearse it and then you go on stage and do it, it's alive.

Sue Best (19:33):

And that's actually, that's the idea behind our new UNPRECEDENTED initiative, at the moment is that we were listening to the American election. And we heard amongst people chatting, somebody said, "oh this is quite Shakespearean." And we thought, of course it is, and that has fed into this UNPRECEDENTED.

Anjna Chouhan (19:51):

Of course, and the UNPRECEDENTED project that you're running at the moment in 2021 is all about using Shakespeare to respond to moments that we often talk about as unprecedented. But in actual fact, we find that Shakespeare's already covered them, talked about them, explored some of these experiences.

Sue Best (20:11):

The details are different, but the essence is the same. And it's all about power, who does what to who and what are they paid to get it, and how do people negotiate their way through with these circumstances. It's that universality.

Anjna Chouhan (20:24):

Your collaborating with the company, it's a small company, The Wet Mariners. So in 2020, you managed to have some live performance in the Willow globe, well done. And one of them was The Comedy of Errors.

Phil Bowen (20:40):

We did it five times, and they had four actors. We came on the Monday, rehearsal played Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, and played Thursday, Friday and Saturday.

Sue Best (20:50):

We cut it down to 90 minutes, in order to avoid having an interval because of the restrictions on just literally getting together at the bar, we didn't want to have to open the bar. We'd normally have a bar and we'd have a front of house tent and we'd have normally a break... But because of the circumstances, we just couldn't do that.

Phil Bowen (21:10):

We had, the Tempest came out from South Wales. Being looked after by a teacher who is absolutely extraordinary.

Sue Best (21:19):

They're always brilliant, those kids. [inaudible 00:21:22] youth theatre. And if you've got a good leader, kids can do anything, can't they they're just the best, they're so fresh. And this particular performance, she had a wonderful idea to have Trinculo and Stefano were both in enormous pink, rubber rings with ducks heads on that they'd escape from. So they couldn't, as Trinculo and Stefano you're bound to want to hang on to each other. But they couldn't because they had these huge rubber rings and they kept their space, it was just a wonderful idea, ingenious idea.

Anjna Chouhan (21:52):

That's an excellent idea, how wonderful.

Sue Best (21:56):

And we also host workshops and other groups who come and want to have the experience we've got. For example, there's a group who will come this summer called the Payworkers Forum and that's people who work, to do with using games and different aspects of games, they all live away and because we're very central, it's a good place for them to join and they come for a camp and then they stop practicing, that kind of thing. We have lots of collaborations with different groups like [inaudible 00:22:24] trust and they bring schools which come on and do Shakespeare music, music and design actually. It's a wonderful [inaudible 00:22:31] . We're always looking to marry different practices, and enrich each other and spin off each other in that way.

Anjna Chouhan (22:40):

Of course, that sounds like a lovely sort of organic melting pot of all kinds of artistic forms.

Sue Best (22:49):

[crosstalk 00:22:49] Yes, I think you'd agree with me, Phil. They're not trying to proselytize for Shakespeare in an academic way or as a theatre way, but really, as a means for communication.

Anjna Chouhan (23:02):

And in these times people are talking so much about wellbeing and mental health, you work very closely with your community as well. Can you tell our listeners a bit more about Have a go Shakespeare?

Phil Bowen (23:14):

Have a Go has been goin on for how long?

Sue Best (23:16):

It's been going on from something like, since '93 or so, '94. So I remember living in London when we did our first one, because we just thought, here we are, we've got a bit of spare time, we're not working, what are we going to do? Why don't we try and run some local workshop. We went to a senior... Really a framework for senior citizens off the Lancaster road. And we said, would you like us to come and do some drama workshops? And they said, "yes we would."

Sue Best (23:43):

And it was a very mixed bag of people, this is our very first and we took Macbeth-

Phil Bowen (23:48):

Soon after that when we came back to Wales, we thought we ought to do something. And this idea of working with older people, who'd never been to the theatre, and had never seen any Shakespeare became more and more worrying to us. So we were talking to-

Sue Best (24:08):

It was Jane Ashley.

Phil Bowen (24:10):

Yes, Jane Ashley, daughter of the Ashley's.

Anjna Chouhan (24:14):

The Laura Ashley family?

Phil Bowen (24:16):

That's right.

Sue Best (24:16):

Laura Ashley had been a friend of mine.

Phil Bowen (24:17):

Well we were trying to find some money to rent a room and to do three hours a fortnight, which was the first time we called it Have a Go, I think, and the Ashley trust helped us and that has been going on now for how many years?

Sue Best (24:36):

I think 18, 19 years. But 2020 of course everything stopped because people couldn't meet and most of the group said that they didn't initially want to try Zooming because they felt confident they wouldn't manage but actually since then we have started to have a go on Zoom. And it's actually been terribly popular, people love it. Some people meet... We've got one member who actually is really seriously confined to a wheelchair and his house and this is his only sociable thing of the week.

Phil Bowen (25:07):

He was the man who came to see the Wet Mariners in August of this year. Having not been out of his house since February. February to August, first outing. Absolutely loved it.

Anjna Chouhan (25:23):

I'm sure he did. Oh, and how wonderful that he's able to join in with the Have a Go Zoom sessions as well. I think that's wonderful.

Phil Bowen (25:29):

Terrific.

Anjna Chouhan (25:29):

It is terrific, and actually on the subject of digital activity, how have you managed to adapt your work with the Shakespeare Link to this new digital world?

Phil Bowen (25:42):

We have a young girl who now does Have a Go and-

Sue Best (25:47):

She can do things like pool people into chat rooms, which is quite beyond us.

Anjna Chouhan (25:53):

So you've got a tech wizard, that's very helpful.

Sue Best (25:57):

Tech wizardry of the younger generation.

Sue Best (26:00):

But you also had a plan in 2020 to perform Cymbeline.

Phil Bowen (26:05):

Well, you're right. We actually in 2018, I think it was, we met up with the chap who, a Canadian, an academic and he's set up a whole group of people worldwide, about seven or eight companies of which we are the only British one who are doing Cymbeline. The aim was that we should send a film of production. Who was these people in the States and they'd have a great discussion about it all.

Sue Best (26:39):

With her part it is called Cymbeline in the Anthropocene, and actually what we're looking at is the holistic climate change aspect of it all, environmental, what Shakespeare has to say in these difficult times. That's been really exciting and interesting. And from our point of view, having just started our rehearsals of Cymbeline. We'd had some costume fittings of the party. And were about to start proper rehearsals and then suddenly it's lockdown and we can't do anything-

Phil Bowen (27:08):

Last year.

Sue Best (27:11):

This is last year in 2020, so we went on Zoom. The Globe in London are having a big project called Globe for Globe, but that's all to do with Shakespeare and climate change. So we'll be contributing our might towards that, which is nice.

Anjna Chouhan (27:24):

So this coincides with Shakespeare's birthday?

Phil Bowen (27:27):

Yes.

Sue Best (27:30):

We always have a Shakespeare's birthday bash on his birthday. And that's all historically been local chaps, but this year, because of the Zoom situation, we're all going international, picking up with loads of friends we've made over the years, they're all going to pitch in-

Anjna Chouhan (27:47):

Oh how exciting.

Sue Best (27:47):

Then we'll all move over to the day of the month.

Anjna Chouhan (27:50):

On the subject of climate change. You actually have a very green and energy efficient operation at the farm, don't you? Because you work with solar panels. And am I right in thinking that you have a wind turbine as well?

Sue Best (28:07):

It's very little, it's not one of these huge ones, it's quite little, but between the wind turbines and the solar energy we have enough energy to power the theatre and the office and the bar, that's all green. Yes it is entirely provided by this lovely green energy system.

Anjna Chouhan (28:27):

So you've got a very forward thinking operation?

Sue Best (28:31):

Yes definitely.

Anjna Chouhan (28:32):

Excellent. You've adapted to the new digital age very, very well. The Willow itself is growing and being pruned as we speak. What are your thoughts about what you'd like to achieve with The Shakespeare Link going forward?

Sue Best (28:48):

It's hard to know, because we do what we do and we hope that the next lot of guys who come forward... The trustees, we've got our trustees we've got a framework in place and we've got, now this link with the Wet Mariners. Our daughter is also an actor, we've got two daughters and they're both actors. And so we're just hoping they'd all take it forward and they'll make pf it what they will.

Anjna Chouhan (29:13):

So there's definitely an exciting future ahead for The Shakespeare Link, in terms of performance, in terms of all kinds of creativity within that beautiful space on which the Willow Globe is set. Should we talk a little bit about Stratford, because you've spent a lot of time in Stratford. Have you ever been to visit any of the Shakespeare Birthplace Trust properties?

Phil Bowen (29:37):

We used to organize trips from here to start and hire a bus, which I would drive.

Sue Best (29:43):

Yeah, we just haven't been much just lately as it's happening, but I haven't been in Brenton I'll have to be escorted. I haven't been to any of those outside, and a trip to be made, I can't wait.

Anjna Chouhan (29:55):

Yes, you must at some point it'd be lovely to have you. As you know, at the trust we collect items that talk about Shakespeare across the many ages. And one of the things we're thinking about at the moment is collecting things that present Shakespeare in the 21st century, so that future generations can enjoy and appreciate him and our response to him. Do you think there's anything that we ought to be collecting or that we ought to have in our collection that represent Shakespeare now.

Phil Bowen (30:27):

For those of us who can't get to Stratford, perhaps some Shakespeare happening here where people actually live is important. I mean a photograph of our show in the barn or something. When we did Hamlet in the barn. It was extraordinary, it's just a barn in the middle of... There's not a house for half a mile and it's happening here, its thrilling.

Anjna Chouhan (30:55):

That's the magic of theatre, isn't it? That it can happen anywhere. It can be anywhere.

Phil Bowen (30:59):

Absolutely.

Anjna Chouhan (31:01):

So a photograph or something that would capture that moment somehow. That would be wonderful.

Sue Best (31:09):

I just want read you something which is on one of our very first flyers. Phil should read it because he's good at reading.

Phil Bowen (31:18):

Shakespeare Link believes that the work of William Shakespeare is common coin, a valuable medium for communication and debate as well as the resource of theatre Latin-

Anjna Chouhan (31:28):

That's wonderful.

Sue Best (31:30):

So that thing of communication and debate, I think that would be a great thing, if we could find some kind of Shakespeare essence, how about that?

Anjna Chouhan (31:37):

Shakespeare essence.

Sue Best (31:39):

That everybody can have a little of and feel absolutely freshened up and ready to go.

Anjna Chouhan (31:47):

Yeah, that sounds exciting. So if you could bottle some Shakespeare essence, what a super suggestion. I'm not sure how we'd bottle that Sue, but great suggestion. So just a hearty thanks and a huge congratulations on all you've achieved and all the very best for the future with Shakespeare Link and whatever it turns into as you pass it into new hands. Thank you so much, Phil and Sue, what an absolute pleasure it's been to speak with you both and to feed off your wisdom.

Sue Best (32:24):

Thank you, thank you very much.

Paul Edmondson (32:25):

Thank you for listening to this episode of Shakespeare Alive with Anjna. Join me next week when I speak to Michelle Terry, the artistic director of Shakespeare's Globe. If you'd like to find out more about the houses, collections, research and education activity of the Shakespeare Birthplace Trust, head over to our website: shakespeare.org.uk, where you can also make a donation to help us fulfill our mission to share Shakespeare's legacy with the world.