Psych and Theo Podcast
Ep. 4 - What Does the Verse "Judge Not Lest You Be Judged" Actually Mean?
Explore the depths of one of the most misunderstood directives in the Bible with us: "judge not, lest ye be judged." We promise a journey through its true meaning that will equip you with the distinction between moral discernment and condemnation—essential knowledge for both believers and skeptics. Our discussion peels back the layers of this command, offering a fresh perspective that navigates the delicate balance of addressing sin without casting stones. I'll share my own experiences of being dubbed the 'church boy' and how that label has both challenged and informed my approach to moral questions. Together, we'll learn how to hold onto Christian ethics without losing our voice or becoming overly critical.
We're also unraveling the complexities of relationships and faith, addressing when and how to confront behaviors that go against our beliefs. With insights into scriptural pride and the virtue of humble bravery needed to engage in corrective conversations, we'll discover the importance of compassion and timing. Treading into the realms of postmodernism and moral relativism, our dialogue debates the societal tension between subjective truths and absolute moral standards, even touching upon Herbert Marcuse's concept of repressive tolerance. This episode is not just a conversation; it's a guide for standing firm in your convictions amidst the shifting sands of cultural relativism. Join us as we seek to understand and navigate these challenging but vital topics with thoughtfulness and integrity.
Explore the depths of one of the most misunderstood directives in the Bible with us: "judge not, lest ye be judged." We promise a journey through its true meaning that will equip you with the distinction between moral discernment and condemnation—essential knowledge for both believers and skeptics. Our discussion peels back the layers of this command, offering a fresh perspective that navigates the delicate balance of addressing sin without casting stones. I'll share my own experiences of being dubbed the 'church boy' and how that label has both challenged and informed my approach to moral questions. Together, we'll learn how to hold onto Christian ethics without losing our voice or becoming overly critical.
We're also unraveling the complexities of relationships and faith, addressing when and how to confront behaviors that go against our beliefs. With insights into scriptural pride and the virtue of humble bravery needed to engage in corrective conversations, we'll discover the importance of compassion and timing. Treading into the realms of postmodernism and moral relativism, our dialogue debates the societal tension between subjective truths and absolute moral standards, even touching upon Herbert Marcuse's concept of repressive tolerance. This episode is not just a conversation; it's a guide for standing firm in your convictions amidst the shifting sands of cultural relativism. Join us as we seek to understand and navigate these challenging but vital topics with thoughtfulness and integrity.
Hi everyone, welcome to the Psychintheo podcast, where we discuss church, mental health and all things Bible related. I'm Sam, I'm Tim and we're looking forward to jumping into our topic today, where we'll be discussing the very famous quote and statement that people say stop judging me bro, yeah, whatever you're capable of.
Speaker 1:You can't judge me. You can't judge me. Yeah, you know, it's totally, it's not Christian. You can't do that, just not unless you be judged. Yeah, that's a pretty big, big topic, big big thing that we'll be discussing today. But before we jump into our topic, just remember that you can find us on iTunes and Spotify. Make sure you subscribe to the podcast. It really helps us just kind of get the word out. If you'd like to show, share with people, share it on your social media. Really help us get the word out, because these are conversations that think people are having or want to have, and we're just kind of doing that work ourselves, working with you guys and having these tough conversations. So, yeah, tim, you want to have.
Speaker 2:Before we start, Well, I think I think when we were preparing for this topic, the first thing that came to mind was a little short story of something I heard when I was in my graduation from my PhD at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. Danny Akin, who's the president of Southeastern, was giving the keynote address. I don't remember the point exactly he was making, but he said at one point that he said the most popular verse in the Bible is no longer John 3.16, which is what everyone used to know. He said it's now Matthew 7.1, which, if you don't know what Matthew 7.1 is, it's judge, not less GB judged, and that is now the most quoted verse in the Bible by people who probably have never read the Bible.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:So anyway, so I'll lead with that.
Speaker 1:Yes, and in discussing this topic, obviously that is one that Christians use, non-christians use, not even knowing, maybe, the context around it. And there's actually a lot of other verses that talk about this aspect of judging or at least addressing an issue, a sin issue. So we're going to talk about that, but let's first find out why this quote, or why this Bible verse, is so widely used by Christians and non-Christians. Why is it so important that we feel that we shouldn't be judged by sin, or what does it even mean? I guess we can start there. What does it mean when people say don't judge me.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, when I teach students in my ethics classes, the distinction that we try to make, we try to make with them, and this is a pretty basic distinction if you take any sort of ethics course. So there's two basic kinds of judging. There's judging as moral discernment and then judging as condemning. Now, obviously there could be more nuances than that, but that's kind of the two basic strands Judging as discerning between, like judging between something that's right and wrong, and then judging as, like, passing final judgment on someone, so condemning them in some way. And those two things are often conflated when people talk about you can't judge me, we could talk about each one of those, but I think in general, sometimes people are using the latter term like you can't pass final judgment on me because only God has my judge or something like that Right. And I was like well, okay, yeah, you're right in the sense like God is the final judge.
Speaker 1:So we don't know People add that other point and you should be scared of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we don't know the final judgment, but we do have some inclination of that through scripture. But then other times somebody will say you can't judge me or you shouldn't judge me. And they really do mean the first one, like the judgment between or the discernment between right and wrong.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and is that common also with Christians? Because I think, or maybe it's people who are just doing something wrong.
Speaker 1:And then because you have two sides. The way that I was looking at this is you have the person who loves to do that right, who is nitpicking at everything, just addressing every single issue and wanting to be the judge essentially, and then you have the other person who doesn't want to do that and is so scared to do that because other people are going to be upset with him or her for judging. And the first context which you said is to discern between right and wrong. So there's a person who knows right and wrong and they're excited and happy even about addressing every single issue. And you have the other person who knows right and wrong and they're scared to death to even shake the waters per se. So I was thinking about that. I said you know both of them are wrong. You don't want to be this judge in the higher moral ground just addressing every single thing. First of all, it's tiring, yeah, oh yeah. But number two, it's also very practical to be doing that. Yep, on the second part of it is the person who's scared to do that because they're afraid to be shunned or pushed away or something that was said.
Speaker 1:A lot was you know, oh, here comes Holy Boy or Holy Girl, right, oh, here they come. Is that what they called you in school? Holy Boy? Here comes Christian Boy, church Boy actually. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Church Boy okay.
Speaker 1:And so you remember those things and you're like I'm not going to say anything and then so you just avoid a problem altogether. So I had to find that balance right, and I think that's where we want to encourage people to go is you don't want to be a harsh judge who's just looking for every wrong and you also don't want to be quiet or silent on issues that you address sin, yeah, so how do we get there?
Speaker 2:Well, you said it, you alluded to it, that there's a pride factor there.
Speaker 2:One extreme is moral pride or self-righteousness, phariseeism a lot of people like to dog on the Pharisees, and the Pharisees deserve to be dogged on, you know. But you know everyone loves to label someone as a Pharisee. No one sees themselves as a Pharisee, that's true. But so that's one side. The other side is moral cowardice, which is that unwillingness to confront, or that unwillingness to say, things that are unpopular, and when someone shrinks back from saying things that they know are true, that they ought to say, and they because they're afraid of not being liked or they're afraid of being made fun of or something like that.
Speaker 2:That is, you're giving into moral cowardice at that point and you're doing yourself a disservice. You're doing the Lord a disservice at that point, and I think we need to learn how to exercise bravery bravery with humility let's say I love that.
Speaker 1:I love a bravery with humility. So what's the verse? What does the verse say? Because you know, everyone reads verse one and there's a really cool one not cool, but this meme where it has like the whole chapter right and it circles or underlines verse one and then just blacks out everything else. So that is essentially what people are doing. But if we go there, what does the context tell us about this aspect of judgment? Because the Bible says just, not less you be judged. And we stop there. But as we keep on reading, what do we find in the following verses?
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, you have it pulled up, so I'll let you read it. But essentially, to paraphrase it, jesus says with the manner of judgment that you judge someone, so that will be used on you. So that's what it's a caution against judging in the sense of being the moral arbiter, as God is. But anyway, go ahead and read the passage. Yes, or you answer your own question.
Speaker 1:Let's see what it says here, because I don't understand why we stopped there. Like and again to your point earlier, it's people have never read the Bible. They just remember someone saying this one passage or one verse and they just stick with that for life. Pretty much Right, yeah, and there's nothing wrong with this. Matthew 7, verse 1. And on judge not that you be not judged for with the judgment you pronounce, you will be judged With the measure you use. It will be measured to you.
Speaker 1:Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye but do not notice the log that is in your eye, right? So it seems that it's saying that we typically have something that we aren't addressing in our own lives, and yet we also decide at the same time to go ahead and take a higher moral round, yeah, and try to address it in someone else's life. So that's kind of what it's it's saying. Is that, listen, you're dressing this in other people's lives. Why don't you first look at your own life Before even thinking about that, which is the way that we should operate?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. If you notice Jesus doesn't say don't address the speck that's in your brother's eye. He doesn't say that good point. He says before you do that, take out the log that's in your own eye. So it's a warning against spiritual pride and and and Not addressing the sin in your life and just going after people for their sins.
Speaker 2:Yeah now that is often you like. People will sometimes turn that on its head and say, well, that must mean that you can't say anything to me, because, after all, aren't we all sinners, don't? We all have sin in our lives. So if you're confronting me about sin, well then I will just point out the tree law Sticking from your eye, and that is. That is not at all what Jesus is saying. He's not excusing the sin in your life. So I mean we could go to a few other passages that that discuss this.
Speaker 2:You know, if we, if we as believers, aren't allowed to confront Sin or or to identify things as sin and call them sin, let's let's just narrow it down to just the community of believers at this point. Yeah, I do want to talk just a little bit about the culture and how they they help. A wider culture might think about judgment and moral things. I think there's a lot, there's a strong influence of relativism there and we can talk about that. But let's just talk about believers for a minute if we are not allowed to Point out right and wrong. Now again, we're talking about bravery with humility. We're not talking about the Spanish Inquisition where we're going around. We're not talking about that. I'm out like a a humble and Respectful way to confront brothers and sisters in Christ.
Speaker 2:Okay, and maybe we can do an episode on the proper way to do that, yeah, but if we're not allowed to do that, how do we explain passages like First Corinthians 5, where Paul he's writing to the Corinthians and he's actually making a very public confrontation? I mean, imagine being this guy when, when Paul writes that it's, it's, it's said among you that there's a lot of sexual immorality, like it's been reported that there's sexual immorality among you because there's a guy in your church who's sleeping with his stepmom. I imagine if you're that guy that's sitting in the pew and that letter is read and like everyone knows, everyone knows that you and you're just like you know, like that monkey meme was like looking sideways you know, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna pop that up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So so Paul very directly addresses something in that congregation and he tells him you need to deal with this. So that's a passage. We learn about some principles of church discipline from that passage that you are, he says, you're to deliver this person over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, and that sense that there's a. There's a point at which you do not tolerate. You don't tolerate Unrepentant sexual morality in your congregation. You are to put that person out of the congregation, not for final judgment they're not saying eternal judgment here but that they're putting putting this person out into the realm where Satan will have authority to to Destroy that person's life.
Speaker 2:Anyway, it's a very it's a very stern warning.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So that's one and says how do we, how do you reconcile that with judge?
Speaker 2:Not let's to be judged right if we're not dealing with that carefully. And then also, and then very next chapter, 1st Corinthians 6, paul addresses another issue and that's the believers were taking each other to court and suing each other for Damages and other things like that. And Paul says what are you doing? He's like, are you not able to judge among yourselves About these matters? And then he, and then he tells them he says look, eventually you are going to judge angels, you're gonna judge on them, on big spiritual matters, about how angels did their job, and you're gonna, you're gonna actually rule with Christ one day. So if you, if you can't handle these little matters Among yourselves and you have to take them to a court and get a secular judge.
Speaker 2:Yeah to discern what's right and wrong between you, or you know to set things right, how on earth are you gonna fulfill your Eternal function? So Paul is telling me been there you need to learn how to make judgment on certain matters among yourselves as believers. So it we clearly have certain moral responsibilities to judge between right and wrong and then to To render judgment on certain things as believers. That doesn't mean we do it with pride, but we do have to do that at times.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I think that's the key there, tim the not doing it with pride. I was thinking about. Why do people feel like they need to do that, or how they get to a point of pride? And sometimes, at least from what I've seen, it's, you know, this Growing process. You know, especially for those of us who grew up in the church At least it's been my experience where, when we grew up in the church, we have so much knowledge that we think that that's enough.
Speaker 1:Right and because we have that knowledge, sometimes, when we're seeing someone else, Maybe not get a certain point or not do something a certain way. Maybe it's a new believer, Maybe it's been someone who's been in the faith for a long time and we're seeing evidences that are not reflective of Christ or not reflective walking with Christ. We want to address it, and one of the common arguments or hesitancies that people have is well, I'm not that close to him or to her. Who am I to address this issue with him or her? But then you have the other. So here's the more cultural, psychological perspective of if I'm close to you and if I fear confronting you with something that says something about our friendship, that says something about our relationship, that I can't address something in your life. There's no freedom there. Why? Because if I do, you will shun me, Right. So there's that fear. So in one sense I understand the fear, but we're talking about what you said the bravery right. Say again humble bravery.
Speaker 2:Yeah, moral courage, or moral courage, humble bravery, bravery with humility, yeah, just addressing that in someone else's life.
Speaker 1:We don't come to them with an attitude of pride or wanting to get something out of the relationship. It's. You should have that freedom and, again, one of the key things that we see is that it's also among believers. So, as Christians, we understand that when we are doing this, it's to build each other up to correct something. I think even in Galatians 6.1, it says for those of you who are more mature, address it with those who are not Right. And then it goes on to talk about burying each other's burdens. Yep, so very powerful stuff here in regards to okay, we can do this, but if you can't think about their relationship, why is it that you cannot address that?
Speaker 1:In the relationship, there's going to be two factors One, I'm dealing with something and I don't feel comfortable addressing it. Or two, if I address it, that person could abandon me or leave me alone or not want to be friends with me. Yeah, so that's the background of, I think, what people experience when they think about judging. I'm not going to judge because I have my own stuff and I don't feel comfortable, understandable. Or I don't want to judge because, if I do, they're going to think I'm prideful, or they're going to think that they're not going to want to be friends with me anymore. Things like that, yeah, so.
Speaker 2:Well, I'd like to ask you how you would recommend people like approach that kind of situation. And it might be it's going to be different. You might be dealing with a friend versus a neighbor, versus a coworker versus a member of your church.
Speaker 2:And that could be different. It's going to be different in each situation. I would probably add to that. And those are really good questions, I would add to that. So, what kind of relationship do you have to the person? And then, why do you not necessarily this is a bad question why do you want to confront them? Or why is it on your mind to confront them? Maybe it's a better way. Why is it bothering you? And I'm not saying it shouldn't bother you, I'm just saying why? What's the source there? Do you are you confronting because you genuinely care about the person? Or and you want them to stop hurting themselves in some way? Like sin is harmful. Sin hurts people, it hurts themselves and it hurts others. So what are you trying to address? I think, as you work through those questions, that might help get to the root of okay, how do I talk to someone about these things? So I want to know from you what is the best way to approach someone In a disarming sort of way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the things that I like to look at is there is that nature and the aspect of the relationship. Right, how strong is that relationship? Do I have anything to say? In this relationship, there's two ways. Setting is always important, so I always let's think about it in friends.
Speaker 1:Okay, so with friends, it's it's going to tell you something about the level of trust. If you can't address something like that with someone. You brought up a great point, though, why do I want to address it? And typically with friends, what you'll find is okay, I'm seeing something and I'm not going to address it right now because I just saw it for the first time right. Then they give it some time and now they're thinking about it. Okay, this is the second time it happens. Oh, it happened again. Yeah, they're not. They're not treating each other respectfully there. Something's going on. Okay, now that weight starts to build up.
Speaker 1:So I think most friends they see something and I think they just wait and they have all these questions Okay, should I address it? Should I wait? And I think they just go through that period of waiting. So I think waiting is wise. Wait as you see something, you might address it. Maybe you misunderstood something that's happening. Maybe you just need to give it some more time. Maybe they'll reflect and finally get it and change their behavior or change their attitude towards something. But if you see consistent patterns so when I talk about it from a counseling perspective, you always need to look for patterns. So if you don't have a pattern yet, I would say, okay, just give it some time, wait for patterns, and you're going to see it starts to become consistent. Okay, now it's time to address it Right.
Speaker 1:Again, one of the things is that if you address something right away, you're going to be tired because you're going to see that in all of your relationships and you won't be able to rest and you won't be able to grow as a Christian, because part of being a Christian also is being patient with others, because you're working on stuff too Right. So there's this patience aspect to this. So look for patterns, that's what I would say. So if you see a pattern of sinful behavior right, it's usually called known unrepentant sin Right, so they know what they're doing is wrong and it's continuous Then you can address that issue.
Speaker 1:And you got to kind of prepare yourself mentally, emotionally, spiritually. Why am I addressing this? Do I have scripture to back it up. And then do I trust that we will still be friends after this, and if you don't, then you might be more hesitant to actually address the issue. But sometimes it can also show that you actually care to the other person. They might appreciate you more, right? I think there's a, there's a verse in the Bible that says you know that there is rejoicing when someone's able to bring someone back to the truth, right? So there's that aspect. So that's how I would approach it. In a friendship setting, what do you do in a church setting, like if you're not one of the elders or something should you be addressing? Well, you know the person. So a lot of different factors, but friendship we work with college students. That seems to be the most common one, maybe even boyfriend, girlfriend relationship as well.
Speaker 2:So what you're saying is if my friend doesn't text me back as soon as I need him to. I should probably wait to see if that's a pattern of behavior.
Speaker 1:You got to address it right away, because those things grow and then you know, then you have. Are you there?
Speaker 2:Or if the church, the church member who I barely know, the church member who I barely talked to, cuts me off in the parking lot. I probably should not jump to conclusions about their moral character.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know those are. Those are those things that you just have to process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I will take it to the elder. Yeah, so I'll make a brief comment. So we talked about believers and judging, and judging between believers and confronting. Let me just make a brief comment about the culture itself, because this verse is often thrown out in the face of by unbelievers in a Christian space. Well, your Bible says judge not. Or I mean, as, as Danny Akin said, it's the most popular verse now is judge not. Let's to be judged, even by non-Christian soul. They know how to quote that verse.
Speaker 1:So I was 17, someone market. Yeah, yeah, yeah, football football eyeliner.
Speaker 2:You know? Yeah, yeah, yeah, or tattoos, that's the next one. Yeah, it's like Philippines 413 on one arm and then Matthews 711 on the other.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think where does this come from? Where where people have latched onto this? You can't judge me, because there was a point sometime in the past maybe not a definite point, but there was a point where people obviously thought, yeah, you could judge right and wrong and that was a very common thing to do.
Speaker 2:I think in our day and age we deal with a problem called relativism and maybe we can do, we can do a whole episode on that, but so much. There's a lot to do there. But I would say this there's a popularized version. Well, this, this idea of you can't judge me is a is a boiled down, popularized version of moral relativism and or epistemological relativism. And for our listeners, if you don't know what epistemological means, that basically means how we know things. Epistemology means how we know things with the study of knowledge. So moral relativism Actually stems from epistemological relativism, because if you can't, if you question what you know, then you're going to question right and wrong. Okay, so in our culture we deal with a larger philosophical worldview called postmodernism, and not to get into pre modernism, modernism and all that stuff, but postmodernism, if you want to boil that down, it's epistemological relativism. It questions what we can know and it says that all perspectives on reality are relative and therefore subjective and ultimately unknowable. And you can author, they're authoritative to the person. Let's say so every.
Speaker 1:Basically, it's your truth.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's your truth. Yeah, every person has a perspective on the world. The more radical postmodernist will say that basically, every perspective is equally viable. So you know, if you think you're a cat and I think you're, I think I'm a dog, well, let's go with it, okay.
Speaker 2:But when, where that the rubber meets the road with morality is a postmodernism starts to question prevailing what we call meta narratives, that is, overarching stories of the world, how we understand the world. Or the meta narrative would be something like a similar to a worldview, how we, the framework through which we see the world, the story how we understand the world. So Christianity is a meta narrative of the world. Postmodernism questions all meta narratives. So there's no overarching truth. And if there's no overarching truth, there's also no overarching morality, and so hence moral relativism comes into play, and moral relativism says that claims of right and wrong are relative, and it's relativism. They're relative to the person or to the community, and that could be community, could be a small community or a really big community, like a country or a culture nation, something like that.
Speaker 1:And so standard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So so you have two kind of two forms of relativism that run in tandem with one another. One is personal relativism, that's called subjectivism, so it's the subject the person. The person gets to decide what's relative, what's a moral, morally right and wrong. It's relative to their feelings or their prevailing opinions of the day, or whatever that is which change every single yes, yeah, a couple years days, whatever.
Speaker 2:You know, or relative moral right and wrong are set by the community, and so the community gets to decide what's right and wrong, and that has a lot of, let's say, quagmires that we can fall into. We don't have time to get into all the problems of relativism, but there are lots. But I think that the idea of you can't judge me and we shouldn't judge one another comes from, ultimately comes from relativism and post-modernity.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So everyone is coming at Society and at life with their own Perspectives on the world and their own ideas of what's right for them, what's right for you, and if you question someone's Self-understanding, then you are Judging yeah, yeah, and are morally wrong for doing that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you are, yeah, you're wrong.
Speaker 2:So that? So the so, the one moral Proposition of relativism is that you ought to tolerate people and we will not tolerate intolerance. Yeah, those of you who are, think about that for a little bit and you'll understand the problem with it. Yeah, yeah, and we cannot tolerate intolerance is what they'll. They'll say Herbert Marcuse, who is a famous Marxist back in the day and maybe we could do some episodes on Marxism in our culture, but he coined a term called repressive tolerance, which which means that Maybe we're getting off on a tan in here a little bit. So you gotta stop me, you gotta stop. Repressive tolerance means that you can't, you shouldn't, tolerate things like you shouldn't tolerate World views that say you need to tolerate, like freedom of speech, or maybe I'm doing I'm doing a bad job of summarizing this on the fly, yeah, but essentially Herbert Marcuse would say that he's very much influenced by post-modernity. Is that Truth claims are really boiled down to power claims, and so, right, there's no real right and wrong, it's just about it's power games.
Speaker 2:At that point, yeah and so People who say well, we need to. We need to tolerate all views in society like as, and give everyone, let everyone say their due, including Christians who say things are right are right and wrong. We can't tolerate that right we have to, we have to, we have to knock that down, so and it's not sustainable.
Speaker 1:I mean one of the one of the blessings or freedoms that we have in regards to relationships is that you could share what you think about something, yeah, and that that's what you appreciate about other people. Now, obviously, if it comes in conflict with values, with the core values specifically, then that's where there could be conflict. But I think you know, kind of tagging on to what you said earlier about Whatever is right for me, you can't tell me that it's wrong, and if, if that's the case for everyone, then no one could say anything to anyone.
Speaker 1:And obviously, eventually, everything breaks down. Yeah, so there has to be a standard, and for us, as Christians, the way that we approach this is well, scripture tells us what the standard is, and we do our best to try to meet that standard. Non-christians don't like that, so they look at that and say, well, you can't tell me what to do, which ultimately they're saying God can't tell me what to do. I am my own God. Yeah, I decide what's right for me, and hence we have everything going on in culture and we you know, we did an episode on this we have transgenderism, we have abortion, we have a number of other issues just going on in our culture.
Speaker 2:If you say those things are wrong, you are Intolerant and therefore you must not be tolerated. You said this full circle, and that is the repressive tolerance concept that. Mark, who's it was famous for. There's a really good book that people could could read if you're interested in just the idea of tolerance, relativism and tolerance. It's a by DA Carson, who's a really famous biblical theologian, and I believe it's called the intolerance of tolerance.
Speaker 1:I think that. I think that's the title.
Speaker 2:I'm drawing a blank a little bit on it, but yeah, it's a. It's a really good book.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, good, tim is our book recommender.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I actually have a couple books for our listeners to recommend. Yeah, if it's time.
Speaker 1:If it's time, we are almost there, okay, but we are talking. I mean, this is just a lot of great stuff and hopefully, guys, as you guys are tuning in that this is something that's making you think that your questioning have these conversations before. But yeah, this cultural issue of the idea of not judging really comes down to let me live my life, it doesn't affect you when in fact it does. Right, if you let people do whatever they want, including ourselves, it will eventually catch up to us, right? It's the whole idea is paying now or pay later. Right, so we were having fun. They're saying, oh well, I'm having the best time on my life now, but don't realize that the effects of sin Carry over into the future. So if you're doing something now, so if you're believing you're listening right now and you're doing something right now habitual, unconfessed, known sin Then it's gonna come. It's gonna hit you right. The bottle says we reap what we sell. It's gonna, it's gonna come and it's gonna happen.
Speaker 1:So if you have friends who have told you the truth and have tried to confront you about something that is sinful in your life, appreciate those friends. Those friends really do care for, because they were willing to risk the friendship to bring you back to the truth and maybe, if this is you and you have a friend who's in the situation you know, be willing again Look for the pattern, but don't. If you just see something and aren't sure again, maybe you misread something, maybe Maybe Whatever the case was. But give it time right, give them patience, in a sense pray for them. But you do want to address those things because again you want to reestablish their relationship back with the Lord. Sin takes us away from the Lord and when you are addressing or confronting sin in someone else's life, again Look for the, make sure you remove the log from your own eye before you address it.
Speaker 1:But here's some other verses as well that can probably help with this Matthew 18 very common one, right talking about addressing when offenses are done towards you. Or 15 to 17, james 5, 19 to 20, bringing others back to the truth. That's the one I was trying to reference earlier. And then you mentioned first Corinthians 5. Judgment and confrontation is for other Christians, not for unbelievers. Like, we're not out here Telling the unbelievers necessarily that they're going to be, that what they're doing is. How can I say this? What is that I'm looking for? We can tell non-believers that what they're doing is wrong, but we don't expect them to be living up to standard required and scripture because they're not believers.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we witnessed unbelievers and we tell them about the gospel. And if they ask us like, yeah, this is the Christian worldview, this is what God thinks about Sex, or God thinks about drugs or whatever you know, alcohol or whatever that is like.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:This is what God thinks about that issue, right?
Speaker 1:Resist Christians. We're addressing that because we all have the same standard with non-christians. We can address it, but ultimately we first want to minister to them, share the gospel with them and in that Understanding that the Lord will bring them to to the truth. So I think that's a key distinction as well, because when we see these confrontations or we see these passages, it's always within the body of Christ.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, so great point to end on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, good stuff. Any last comments, you had some book recommendations. I just had some book recommendations. Yeah, absolutely Okay.
Speaker 2:So I mentioned the DA Carson book. There's a couple of the books that I would point our listeners to. Since we're on the topic of just judgment and we talked about there's judgment of moral discernment and then judgment of kind of passing final judgment on something. I'll just mention two ethics books. I'm an ethicist so I'll reference a couple ethics books If you're wondering, as a listener, what are some good books that I could just pick up and will be sort of good resources that address lots of different issues in the culture. This is the spirit behind what I'm recommending. The first one is called Moral Choices by Scott Ray. It's called Moral Choices and Introduction to Ethics. I actually used this in my class. It's a very popular book used in many ethics classes. It's very accessible to ministers, professors and also students.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's very easy to read. It's gone through many editions so it's very, very accessible. The other one is a pretty new book and it's a big book. It's called Ethics as Worship the Pursuit of Moral Discipleship. This is by Mark Liederbach and Evan Leno. Mr Liederbach, or Dr Liederbach, was one of my professors at Southeastern.
Speaker 1:That's a very new book.
Speaker 2:It's an ethics book, but it's more of not just saying this is right and this is wrong. It's what the Bible says about it. But why the title?
Speaker 1:is.
Speaker 2:Ethics as Worship. What we do in our lives, the day-to-day decisions that we commit, shape our moral character. It's a virtue ethic, and our character ultimately influences how we live for God, Since our lives need to be lives of worship and everything. Two really good resources. If you're wondering about, if you're like I'm just curious about X, Y and Z issues, books like this are going to be good for you. Good.
Speaker 1:Good, good In regards to recommendations, I think, along with the books that Tim mentioned, is just encouraging. Maybe you guys as our audience, just that. Again, if this is something that you're experiencing in your own life, that this speaks to you, we really want that one for this podcast to be a blessing to you. Again, like I said, we want to maybe have a small voice in the context of Christian culture, and if it affects culture, even more so, because where we're heading is not a good place.
Speaker 1:It's actually really really scary to think about, because everything to your point earlier about subjectivism and moral relativism, I mean all of that is just creating this recipe for moral disaster. We're already seeing effects of it and the way that culture has dealt with it is by trying to quiet it or close their eyes to it and saying there's nothing wrong, even though the whole culture around them is crumbling. This is where we need to speak up as Christians. Just have a voice, speak up more. I think, as we talk about this aspect of judgment is that maybe you've been afraid of being called it's the word, not a hypocrite, a bigot, being judgmental. Whatever the case is, I think in today's culture maybe that can be a good thing, right, but hopefully we gave you guys some steps and pointers here to know how to do that in a Christian way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I would say, just as an act of moral courage, if you are saying things that are true in a humble way, then be willing to be called a bigot, be willing to be shamed for the views that you have Always. Speak the truth, don't affirm a lie, don't assent to a lie, don't advance lies. Speak the truth and have the courage to do so and be willing to accept the consequences, something that I think Jordan Peterson is fond of saying.
Speaker 1:I reference him a lot, but he says I know Papke's about it Well he didn't get this.
Speaker 2:This came from. Oh man, I'm blanking on his name now. He's a philosopher in Britain. But he said when you speak the truth, you go on an adventure because you don't know what's going to happen next it's killing. I'm blanking on the guy's name, but I'll think of it later.
Speaker 1:I have that reminds me of another guy. This was a business guy. He's on a show, Shark Tank. It just hit me because he said if you tell the truth, you never have to you never forget what you said, If you always tell the truth.
Speaker 1:you never forget what you said, because that's just the consistent train of thought that you have when you're sharing the truth with the people, the truth of God's word. You will never feel like you need to back up. And I'll tell you again Just stay committed to that. Again, remember the podcast is on Spotify, on iTunes or Apple Podcasts. Be sure to subscribe. Leave us a review. We'd really appreciate that. I hope that you enjoyed this episode. All right, see you next time.