Dare to confront the red pill movement's grip on modern masculinity and its profound effect on men's place in society? Our latest episode unravels the tangled web of beliefs that drive this ideology, offering a candid examination of its roots and its sometimes troubling influence on gender relations. We're not just skimming the surface; we promise an unflinching look at how the red pill's tenets shape the behaviors and attitudes of men who subscribe to its paradigm. From the iconic "The Matrix" reference to the movement's troubling evolution and impact on societal norms, each moment of this discussion is designed to challenge what you think you know and spark a much-needed conversation.
This episode takes an emotionally charged turn as we venture into the minds of incels entwined within the red pill ideology, dissecting the psychological struggles faced by men who find forming relationships an insurmountable challenge. Our exploration doesn't end there—we also probe the influence of life coaches and paternal figures, dissecting how their narratives can steer men towards a MGTOW lifestyle in search of control in an unpredictable world. Join us, along with our insightful guests, as we dissect these complex narratives, casting light on the yearnings and struggles that seldom make it into the open. Share your thoughts, fuel the dialogue and be part of a conversation that seeks to understand rather than judge.
Dare to confront the red pill movement's grip on modern masculinity and its profound effect on men's place in society? Our latest episode unravels the tangled web of beliefs that drive this ideology, offering a candid examination of its roots and its sometimes troubling influence on gender relations. We're not just skimming the surface; we promise an unflinching look at how the red pill's tenets shape the behaviors and attitudes of men who subscribe to its paradigm. From the iconic "The Matrix" reference to the movement's troubling evolution and impact on societal norms, each moment of this discussion is designed to challenge what you think you know and spark a much-needed conversation.
This episode takes an emotionally charged turn as we venture into the minds of incels entwined within the red pill ideology, dissecting the psychological struggles faced by men who find forming relationships an insurmountable challenge. Our exploration doesn't end there—we also probe the influence of life coaches and paternal figures, dissecting how their narratives can steer men towards a MGTOW lifestyle in search of control in an unpredictable world. Join us, along with our insightful guests, as we dissect these complex narratives, casting light on the yearnings and struggles that seldom make it into the open. Share your thoughts, fuel the dialogue and be part of a conversation that seeks to understand rather than judge.
All right, everyone. Welcome back to the Psych and Theo podcast, the podcast that covers cultural topics from a psychological and theological perspective. I'm Sam and this is my co-host. Tim and Tim, how are you doing today, man?
Speaker 2:
I'm good man, I'm doing good. What are we going to talk about today?
Speaker 1:
Today we are talking about challenging the red pill movement. Oh, okay, so that's a hot topic, a hot trending topic. Today we are talking about challenging the red pill movement. So that's a hot topic, a hot trending topic. It's been going on actually for a couple of years now, and so probably it's been around for a long time, because it sounds like the person who you will be describing is someone who's kind of dealt with this for quite a long time.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, apparently, apparently. So we can. Yeah, we can into that Like red pill. What does red pill mean? Absolutely.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and before we get into that, I guess you know one of the things that you know where this would be. You know this would be part of our top 10 or not top 10, our first 10 episodes and guys. So we just want to hear from you guys If you guys can leave a review on the podcast, if he has been tuning in this long. And, yeah, leave a review for us, share the episode with other people. We really want to hear from you guys. We love the word of mouth, you know, just kind of you guys telling us how you guys, what you guys think about it. But if you can leave a review, that way other people can also read what you guys think.
Speaker 2:
they can also be, um, wanting to tune in as well, but we're trying to touch on very different topics yeah, if you, and leave us a comment on instagram, because we're mostly there right now, we're going to expand, but leave us a comment there. If you have episode ideas, topics that you want us to cover, we'd love to do that. Um, so we're going to hit some things that are cultural, some things that are hit, some things that are cultural, some things that are theological, some things that are psychological for Sam's world of counseling. So we're going to. We can range all over the place, but we want to hear from you what is important for you to hear. What do you want to hear?
Speaker 1:
Absolutely, absolutely. And this is one, this idea of the red pill movement. It's one that we thought would be important to address because it affects the way that men think and behave in culture, and we'll see after today kind of why it is that way and is there any reasons for it and what's the leading cause for having this red pill mentality. So we'll talk a little bit about that, but first we'll get to defining what the red pill movement is, because initially, you know, red pill used to be associated with kind of this more conservative, far right extremism. But as we continue to dig into it a little bit more, we realize now that actually the red pill has to do more with this sociological masculine perspective that is distorted in a lot of different ways. So we'll jump into that. But, tim, from what we've been researching, what is the red pill movement or who are the?
Speaker 2:
red pill guys.
Speaker 2:
So let's dissect this just a little bit so the audience can understand the terms that we're using. So red pill I was actually sitting with some friends um last week and I told them about this episode, the red pill episode, and to my surprise a lot of them didn't know what I meant. Some of them did, or they they knew what, they knew what red pill meant in general, but a lot of them had no idea what the red pill community was. So then I explained it to them and they were kind of shocked by that. So I think the audience that's listening maybe some of them will know, but I think a lot of them may not know exactly what this movement is now or what it has become.
Speaker 2:
So this might be an episode, if you're listening, listening that you might find surprising in some ways. Okay, so what is a red pill? What's the red pill community? So those of us who have lived a long time would remember the movie the matrix matrix, which came out in 1999. Um, and the the concept of the red pill comes from that movie.
Speaker 2:
There's a famous scene where one character named Morpheus, played by Lawrence Fishburne, he hands the other character, neo, played by Keanu Reeves this is pre-John Wick days, of course and Lawrence Fishburne hands him two pills. He says he holds out his hand and then one pill, or one hand is a red pill, one hand is a blue pill, and he says your choice is if you take the blue pill, you'll go back to sleep. You'll wake up and you'll remember nothing of this conversation, nothing of what we showed you. Life will continue as normal and you won't know anything about this. Basically, go back to being a normal person, normal and you won't know anything about this. Basically, go back to being a normal person. But if you take the red pill, I'm going to show you what the world is really like. I'm going to show you the truth. I'm basically going to wake you up. Okay. So what does neo do? Spoiler alert look, the movie's been out for like 25 years, so if you haven't seen it by now, yeah, so he takes the red pill and that means he and he and he escapes the matrix at that point.
Speaker 2:
Okay, so the term red pill in political discourse and cultural discourse came to mean that you had been awakened by from the typical, normal narratives of the culture and that started out with, like, political libertarianism at first, or taking the red pill meant that you don't, you're not a normie, you don't follow the normal talking points in politics or culture. I like what a famous. You know a really well-known libertarian podcaster named Tom Woods. He's one of my favorite podcasters. He says you know, there's a three by five index card of allowable opinion that most people stick to, and when you become a libertarian, that means you like that thing on fire and you have different opinions at that point. So being a red pill at first just meant sort of that Like I'm awake to this cultural narrative, these cultural narratives that I've been fed since my childhood, and I'm going to, I'm going to choose something different, I'm going to step out of line, basically, but it's it started to take on more specific meetings.
Speaker 2:
In recent years. First it kind of went with the alt-right group, which that itself started out as like a general term and then became associated with neo-Nazis and racists and things like that. So the term alt-right really isn't that helpful anymore. But then red pill kind of became associated with MAGA, the MAGA movement. So red pill became synonymous with orange pill. So I take the orange pill. That means I'm like on the Donald Trump MAGA train.
Speaker 2:
But then it shifted from that to being what, what we're going to talk about today, which is red pilled to the matriarchal feminist society or or, as the red pill guys call it, the gynocentric society. And so red pill now the guys who take the moniker red pill and they accept it and they wear it with pride have come to be, they've come to identify themselves as anti-feminists. So that's what the movement kind of represents. Now when someone says I'm a red pill person, unfortunately it tends to just have that connotation to it. It no longer has any of the other prior connotations. So when you see people online talking about red pill men or red pill guys, they tend to have this meaning in mind. It's these guys who are aggressive anti-feminists. I shouldn't say aggressive in the sense of violent, but aggressive in the sense of they're pushing back against the feminist narratives of our culture, the feminist movement in our culture. So they see themselves as anti-feminist, as anti-establishment, in that feminism is now the established dominant cultural paradigm of the day. So people look at things through a feminist paradigm and so they push back against that, because all the forces of our culture, media, politics, religion and so on have adopted and propagate feminist ideology and beliefs and so they want to push back against that because these things have had incredible damage on the culture, is their argument. So that's what the red pill community means.
Speaker 2:
There are some terms that you should know as an audience member if you're encountered this ecosystem or this group. So I'll lay out a few of those. One is called the manosphere. This typically just means this, this virtual ecosystem of men who are disaffected, disillusioned with feminist society. So these are kind of the red pill guys, um, so manosphere kind of refers to that thing, like you know, atmosphere, but for men. Um so the manosphere can encompass a lot of different groups. Some one of those groups is called incels.
Speaker 2:
That stands for involuntarily celibate. These guys are frustrated because they want a mate, they want to be that of a spouse or just a girlfriend or whatever, and they are blaming feminist society because feminism has ruined or is ruining the society and causing all kinds of problems in the mating world, dating, mating and dating world okay, and so these would be guys who don't have a mating partner but will really really want one, okay, uh, another term is MGTOW, which is an acronym M-G-T-O-W. It stands for men going their own way and these could be men who are either married or not married, which is an interesting, you know, aspect to this. But it basically means men who have sworn off trying to have a quote unquote typical or normal relationship as the society would define it, the current feminist society would define it. Sometimes that means men just saying I'm going to be a. I'm going to be like sort of a warrior monk stoic warrior monk in society. I'm not going to get married, I'm not going to tie my assets at all to a wife or anything like that, like culture would demand that I do, because the culture is so weighted against me, especially in divorce court and family courts and child custody and things like that.
Speaker 2:
So red pill in this sense means I'm awake to what the culture has become now and I'm going to choose a different path. There's a couple of other terms not as important to know, but black pill, which means despair or being extremely cynical. So when someone says I've been black pilled about something, they say I have no hope in that thing. Like I've been blackpilled about marriage, I have no hope in the institution of marriage because it's been so corrupted. That's kind of what they mean. Or white pill means hopeful, like oh, I've been white pilled about the chances of turning things around. You know that that's not a common thing. You see in the red pill community being white pilled, but still there other other terms to know.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, all right, so that's a that's a introduction to what red pill means. Yeah, yeah, and you know, as you were, as you were describing those, tim is there. Is there reasons that why they are feeling the way that they are meaning they're that way for a specific reason? Right? So you talked about the incels. The incels are intentionally celibate. Did I get that right?
Speaker 1:
no involuntarily I'm sorry, involuntarily, involuntarily celibate, okay. So when, when you say that and I think about okay, they're involuntary celibate, so they're either being rejected by women, uh, not wanting a relationship, but they they can have one, right Kind of this aspect. So I'm thinking to myself what did these guys go through to get to that point to desire a relationship and not be able to have one? What kind of impact does it have on their psyche, on the way that they relate? What do you think is happening to those men, emotionally, mentally, psychologically?
Speaker 2:
Well, you know, it's kind of hard to psychoanalyze. You know a whole group, but I would say there is an aspect. So if someone is like, so incel has kind of become an insult to that group in a way. I think at some point it turned for derogatory.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, it insult to that group in a way.
Speaker 2:
I think at some point it turned to a derogatory term. But yeah, there's probably a sense of loss of control that they feel. And this is where the leaders of the red pill community, like the guys who are kind of being the standard bearers to guide men to a new path, a new way forward these guys are holding out the, the promise of taking back control of your life in some way. So I think that's probably prominent okay, because?
Speaker 1:
because I think it seems like what the red pill is trying to do is to get the incels to become MGTOWs. Right, because it's trying to get them to go your own way and create a new, different life for yourself. Am I getting that right? I?
Speaker 2:
mean, I don't think you're totally off. I think that's probably a major part of the, at least the consulting work that goes on. And by that I mean like there's guys who pitch themselves as consultants in this sphere, and I think that's probably a lot of. What they do is sort of like life coaching sort of speak for guys who feel like they are trapped in this society, that they want something but they can't have it, and so these consultants or life coaches are kind of pushing them in another direction. Hey, like, go a different way, yeah, yeah, shape your, construct your life in a different way. Um, yeah, so I think that's maybe the a large part of what's going on no, that's good.
Speaker 1:
And again, the reason for for discussing that is because I'm asking myself what did they go through to think the way that they do? And when I looked at some red pill guys these are the more modern ones. They have their podcast. They talk very negatively about women, about using them, like about marriage, about family. All of these different things about marriage, about family. All of these different things. And I remember there was one guy that I listened to and trying to understand why he thought the way that. He thought I'm like, well, it has to be. You know, his dad treated women a certain way. His dad taught him a certain principle or some sort of theme in his life. And the way that what this guy said, he says you know the reason why I know so much about these types of women.
