Psych and Theo Podcast
Ep. 21 - Spiritual Warfare, Part 4: Answering the Most Intriguing Questions
Can Christians truly be possessed by demons, or is there a more nuanced reality to spiritual warfare? In this thought-provoking episode of the Psych and Theo podcast, Tim and Sam finish their series by tackling some of the most pressing questions on demonic influence. With insights from Dr. Heiser and Dr. Appleby, we uncover why the term "demon possession" might not be biblically accurate and prefer the term "demonized" to reflect different levels of demonic activity. We explore how Christians, though sealed by the Holy Spirit, can still face demonic influence and what that means for their faith journey.
Furthermore, we navigate the fascinating world of angelic beings and their roles in spiritual warfare. Ever wondered about the scriptural basis for invoking angels or the hierarchy of heavenly hosts like the seraphim? We'll address these topics and delve into pathways that open doors to spiritual attacks, such as involvement in the occult, sexual sin, and trauma. By emphasizing the importance of testing spirits with scripture and the counsel of believers, we aim to provide a balanced and biblically grounded approach to understanding the supernatural. Tune in for a comprehensive and engaging discussion that will leave you with a deeper understanding of spiritual warfare and the protection offered by your faith.
Can Christians truly be possessed by demons, or is there a more nuanced reality to spiritual warfare? In this thought-provoking episode of the Psych and Theo podcast, Tim and Sam finish their series by tackling some of the most pressing questions on demonic influence. With insights from Dr. Heiser and Dr. Appleby, we uncover why the term "demon possession" might not be biblically accurate and prefer the term "demonized" to reflect different levels of demonic activity. We explore how Christians, though sealed by the Holy Spirit, can still face demonic influence and what that means for their faith journey.
Furthermore, we navigate the fascinating world of angelic beings and their roles in spiritual warfare. Ever wondered about the scriptural basis for invoking angels or the hierarchy of heavenly hosts like the seraphim? We'll address these topics and delve into pathways that open doors to spiritual attacks, such as involvement in the occult, sexual sin, and trauma. By emphasizing the importance of testing spirits with scripture and the counsel of believers, we aim to provide a balanced and biblically grounded approach to understanding the supernatural. Tune in for a comprehensive and engaging discussion that will leave you with a deeper understanding of spiritual warfare and the protection offered by your faith.
All right, welcome back to the Psych and Theo podcast. This is Tim and Sam, or Sam and Tim, depending on which order you prefer and we are wrapping up our series on spiritual warfare and demonic possession. If you haven't listened to the first three episodes, please go back and listen to those first, because the answers we give in this episode will not make sense unless you listen to those three. So we did two just on biblical warfare and our biblical worldview and spiritual warfare how to understand the nature of the battle that we are in and the nature of the entities let's say that we are in battle with Cosmic rebellion.
Speaker 2:Cosmic rebellions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then I didn't make that up. You know, that's Dr Heiser's phrase. And then the third episode was just about mental health and demonic possession. How should we understand these two fields and even understanding the overlap between them? That theme came up a lot in that episode of. We want to be careful not to conflate them, but there does seem to be a lot of overlap. Alright, so I think in this episode we're going to do a quick Q&A on some questions that we realized we didn't quite answer fully and that the listeners may want answers to, and then I think, after this, if you guys have more questions, post them in the comments, on Instagram or elsewhere, uh, and just let us know if there's other questions that we maybe didn't get to or you just that have come up since listening to these episodes, that we could answer for you. So I'm sure there's a lot. All right, let's get into it.
Speaker 2:Let's get into it, let's ask our questions here. So we're going to do real Q&A style here, as we again to Tim's point. Listen to the first three episodes so that you can tie together with these questions that I'm about to ask Tim, and it'll definitely start to make a lot more sense. So this is a question, I think, that a lot of Christians have asked throughout the years and definitely probably comes up in church and you have your typical answer to it.
Speaker 2:but today we're going to get Tim's answer and his well-researched answer on the question can Christians be possessed?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the answer to this question has to do with semantics and it's really important not to judge indirectly, because if someone's like yes or no, yes or no, it's not. We have to dig into the semantics of where we came up with this term, demon possession, because that term, that phrase, is not in the Bible. Demon possessed is not in the Bible If you think about it. It's a hyphenated term. It's not in the Bible. What is in the scriptures is a hyphenated term. It's not in the bible.
Speaker 1:What is in the scriptures is a is a term that means, if you were to, if you were to translate it properly, okay, where I'm getting this is some of the accounts in the new testament where a demon, a person who says they have a, they have a, an unclean spirit, or they are, they were filled with anan spirit or they were. It's a verb that, if you translate it properly, means demonized, like they were influenced, they're being influenced by a demonic entity or controlled in some way. The King James translation of the Bible is credited with the phrase demon possession, translating that as the person was demon possessed, and that's where we get the term demon possession and that has spawned this distinction between possession and oppression. You say so. You'll hear Christians debate this today by saying no, no, christians can't be demon-possessed, they can be oppressed.
Speaker 1:So they make that distinction. But I think the better way to understand this and Dr Heiser goes into this in his book on demons, the last chapter, he answers this question. Dr Appleby in his book explains this almost in the same way that Heiser does that a better term than demon possession is demonized and that's not a black and white. That's like an on or off, black or white, binary choice spectrum where demonization can be can go from degrees of might, like minor degrees, to very severe degrees of demon possessed or demon demonization. Um, and demonic influence, uh, demon possession. I would say, if I had to answer it categorically, to say no, that christians can't be demon possessed, because possession implies ownership and and if a Christian in the New Testament, a Christian, is owned by Jesus, by the Holy Spirit, we're sealed by the Holy Spirit. Okay, but that doesn't mean that we can't be influenced. We see examples of that.
Speaker 1:I mentioned Ananias in a previous episode, where Ananias, who is a Christian, and his wife Sapphira. They come into the church and they're pretending to give all their money and they're really only giving half and Peter says Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart? Jesus looks at Peter at one point and says Satan, get behind me. Now he's not saying Satan is possessing Peter, but he's saying, peter, you're acting like Satan, who opposes the will of God. So Christians can be influenced. I mean, paul warns Timothy that in the latter days there's some people and he's talking about Christians who will be drawn away by the doctrine, the teachings of demons, who will be drawn away by the doctrine, the teachings of demons. There are teachers in the church who for all intents and purposes, from what we can tell, are believers but can be deceived by evil spirits in their teaching.
Speaker 1:So there's different levels and degrees of influence and we would call that demonization. So when we come to a situation where someone is like what we would think of as possession, where it's a severe form of control and manifestation of supernatural knowledge and power and things like that, that would be a severe degree of demonization and I think um, I'm just speaking not as an expert here, but a christian probably would have to do a lot of things to get to that point. Uh, it's not something that you can just stumble into. Let's say, yeah, that's my opinion on that. So categorically, no, christians can't be possessed because they can't be owned by Satan, but influenced like demonized. Yeah, I think so. I think there's evidence for that in the scriptures.
Speaker 2:And to clarify, to be demonized. Would that be similar to and get back to semantics, I guess with this is that similar to being oppressed?
Speaker 1:Yeah, essentially it's the same meaning that we would say, but in general the distinction of possession and oppression is just not really helpful and clear. Demonization is more broad term, but it's more correct. It's a more precise term to think about because there's degrees of influence. You can be influenced to a high degree, let's say Good, good influence.
Speaker 2:You can be influenced to a high degree. Let's say, yeah, it's good, good, um, so if satan knows he can't win, why does he keep?
Speaker 1:fighting man. I love this question because there's all kinds of theories about it and I, as I tell my students, because they would ask me this question, I'm like, well, I'm not going to ask him, I'm not going to call him up and ask him. You know, there's there's kind of two, two main views, I that I I kind of go back and forth on with this. Okay, now there's a, there's more than two views, but these are the two that if, uh, if you listen to the first two episodes on just the biblical worldview, cosmic rebellions, spirit, the unseen realm, it's kind of two views. Uh, the first view is Heiser's view and I think there's a good good amount of evidence to this, that Satan, um. Well, let me give you the first view first, cause it's it's less popular and it's less, it's, um, not as many people hold this.
Speaker 1:The first view I would say that I kind of struggle with and sometimes like think about, is that satan might actually think he can win. He's so conceited and prideful um the scriptures, if isaiah, the passages in isaiah and ezekiel are really describing satan, he says in his heart I will be like the most high, I will rise to the, to the level of the most high, so he could be very, very conceited into believing that he actually can win. I kind of struggle with that one because logically we think, well, god is the greatest possible being. He can't not exist, he's omnipotent, omniscient, all these things. So how conceited would Satan have to be to believe that he can win?
Speaker 1:I don't know, there's some mysteries there in the spiritual realm that I won't dare you know, delve into, but that's one view is that they actually I think they can win, but the more I think, the more likely view is is and this is what Heiser explains is that the, the the second coming of Christ is connected to, is explicitly connected to the activity of the church. Paul explains this in I think it's Romans 11, where he says you know he's describing God's plan for Israel and the people of Israel and he says you know, once when the fullness of the Gentiles comes, god's going to turn back to the people of Israel to graft them back in.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And Paul's intent to go to Spain, which at that time was the ends of the earth, that they knew the farthest edge of the known world. At that point Paul he says this at the end of Romans I plan to go to Spain. Paul is trying to take the gospel as far as he can because he understands that the second coming of Christ is linked to this thing that he calls the fullness of the Gentiles. When all of the Gentiles that God sees as sufficient for the kingdom are brought into the kingdom, then he will turn back to Israel, and I think that's when the end times really kicks off.
Speaker 1:If Satan knows that as well, then they, like the Satan and the principalities and powers are these are the ones we wrestle with that Paul says in Ephesians 6, they are contending with us and they're contending with the church and the expanse of the church and the effectiveness of the church to take the gospel to the world. So if Satan can disrupt the church through division, infighting, persecution and other things, if he can continue to do that, then he can keep this war going on for a long, long time. So if he doesn't think he can win, why does he keep fighting? Well, he might be so conceited to think that we can keep this going on forever, because he's just dealing with a bunch of little meat sacks who don't know anything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the sin of pride runs deep with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we're a bunch of little sheep. What do we know?
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good, I like that explanation of those two camps. Another one what's the role of angels in spiritual warfare? Because there's a lot of talk about well, do we have guardian angels and what would be their role if we do have them? But yeah, actually that one was one I haven't even thought about, just because I personally didn't believe that. But I'm interested to hear kind of how you respond to this one about the guardian angels.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so there's some. Again, there's debate about whether we have guardian angels or not. I do think there's some biblical evidence for this idea. I don't think it's crazy. There's scant evidence though. There's scant evidence though. So the Matthew 18. Jesus mentions that they don't harm these little ones, these children, for their angels see the face of God. They go before the face of God. So there's it's an opaque kind of reference, but Jesus mentions little children having angels. What reference is that? It's Matthew 18, I think, but Jesus mentions little children having angels.
Speaker 1:What reference is that it's Matthew 18, I think. Another reference that's very clear, I think more clear is Acts 12, and this is where Peter is thrown in prison and an angel comes to him, gets him out of prison, breaks him out. And then Peter goes to the house where the other disciples are hiding and he's knocking on the door and the little the young woman comes to the gate and realizes it's peter and she runs back into the house and tells the other disciples, hey, it's peter out there. And they're like, no, it's not, it's his, go, it's his angel. Like it's just like, yeah, it's must be his angel that's come. There's a couple of different views about that, like what they would have believed, whether they believed it was actually Peter's spirit before he had gone to heaven that was kind of roaming around, or if believers have an angel that maybe mimics their appearance or looks like them sometimes and watches over them.
Speaker 1:But that's another kind of example. Maybe mimics their appearance or looks like them sometimes and watches over them, but that's another kind of example.
Speaker 1:The other one that's often cited is Revelation 2 and 3, the letters to the seven churches. I think this is a pretty clear one, because Jesus says to the angel, he says to the angel of Pergamum, to the angel of Ephesus, angel of Pergamum, angel of Smyrna, he addresses the angels of these seven churches. Now some will say, well, he's referring. Angel means messenger, so he could be referring to the head, elder or pastor of those churches. I don't think that's a correct view, given how the word angel is used throughout the entire book of Revelation. So it does seem to be that the angel that Jesus is addressing is a stand-in for the church itself. So, like the angel itself has some sort of guardianship or stewardship role in that church, and there seems to be this relationship between how the church is behaving and the angels stewardship of that church.
Speaker 1:There's some again, there's some different views. I don't want to be dogmatic about any of that, but yeah, so I think there's some evidence for us having guardian angels. When it comes to the role of spiritual warfare, the I think where is it? The, I think where is it? The book of Hebrews talks about that there's angels, that they're ministering spirits, that they minister to believers, that they help believers and that in the admonition for us to be hospitable. The author of Hebrews reminds us that even some have entertained angels unaware, and he's referring to the passage about Abraham. Okay, so there are, I think. I think it's not unreasonable to think that there are angels walking among us physically.
Speaker 2:Physically. What do you mean? Like?
Speaker 1:bodies, yeah, bodies, I mean, that's in the Old Testament. They show up and they have bodies. They can somehow take on corporeal form.
Speaker 2:But they don't look like humans or they do.
Speaker 1:No, they do look like humans. I mean even the story of Lot and the angels they are seen as men.
Speaker 1:Now there's some I won't get into some theories on that but basically they're called men. The men of Sodom say hey, there's two men that have come to you. So sometimes angels appear as men, sometimes they appear as like fiery warrior hosts. Their functions relate to whatever God is accomplishing in the world, and so when they minister to believers, they're helping us accomplish God's will in the world. They're not like these bellboys or butlers that can just do things for us. That is not how they work, at least if you follow the New Testament.
Speaker 2:And there were angels that ministered to Jesus as well, right Yep.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, that would be the passage where he goes into the wilderness as well, right, yep, yep. Oh yeah, yep, that would be the passage where he goes into the wilderness and he's tempted by. Satan, yeah. So with spiritual warfare though you know the Catholics have a view of this where you can call down the assistance of angels and combating the demonic and the satanic, I don't see any scriptural evidence for that. I don't think that's appropriate.
Speaker 2:Now Catholics are going to disagree with me on that.
Speaker 1:Do they have any reference that they use like Psalm 90? I don't. So I don't know. I actually don't know where they would base that. I'm going to guess it's on some tradition that they have, or maybe apocryphal literature, because I'm not aware of any biblical reference that they would use for that justification. Maybe I'm wrong, but again, I just when I see the confrontation of spiritual evil with the, with the church, in the new testament, there's not an activity of the church calling in angels to do things yeah, yeah, that's the point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that's, that's my view on that okay, so we're talking about, kind of like, the good guys, the good angels, right, and then we have.
Speaker 1:Let me just say one and I think heiser makes a good point of this like the incredible humility of, of the, the heavenly host. They're called the heavenly host, the holy ones. They have incredible humility because they don't seek their own glory, they seek to do the will of God. And if they're assigned to us, imagine how I mean they're not God, so I imagine they could at least feel in some way. Again, I don't want to delve too deeply in speculation here, but angels could at times delve too deeply in speculation here. But you know, angels could at times. Okay, one gets held up by the prince of persia. So, like you know they, they have limitations. So it's like, imagine they get assigned to us, you know, and like, oh man, this human, he's messing up again I don't, I don't know.
Speaker 1:You know who knows?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah. Well, that just made me think of oh gosh. What was I going to say in regards to that with the angels?
Speaker 1:There's also different ranks of the angels. You know, like the seraphim, are around the throne of God. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:All the time. You know that's and that's what it was, I think. So you have the different ranks and levels of angels and levels of angels, and then there's a passage I forget the passage, I'm sure you'll know it where it says that he's made us you a little more above, a little above the angels, a little lower, a little lower than the angels.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it says what is man?
Speaker 1:That you are mindful of him, that you would? I can't remember that. I don't want to butcher that verse, but it says you have made him a little lower. Are you ready for this? It's not angel, it's Elohim. You've made him a little lower than the Elohim. Remember I was explaining? That word can be an improper general plural noun for the watcher class or the divine council. So human beings have been made a little lower than the spiritual beings, the Elohim, and that term is when you get to the New Testament. The term angel basically refers to any guys on the good side, mostly. So yeah, we've been made a little lower.
Speaker 1:And when Hebrews says when Christ takes on human form, he gets made. And taking on human form, he becomes a man and therefore is made a little lower than the angels for a time. And accepting that, the form of the servant, as Philippians 2 says. But here's the cool part John explains this in his opening chapter in the Gospel of John, and you see this with Paul when he explains to the Corinthians like we're going to judge angels, human beings, as they're redeemed and they're brought into the kingdom of God. John says to those who believed in his name. He gave them the right to be called the children of God. Paul says that do you not know, corinthians, that you're going to judge angels one?
Speaker 2:day.
Speaker 1:Now that doesn't mean we're going to be the boss of all the angels, but God is replacing, he is inviting human beings back into his family in that divine council of rulership Into our role that he designed for us as being rulers on the earth, and part of that rulership is judging the angels that rebelled.
Speaker 2:Wow. Dude, I love how you tie everything together. Great Good, so yeah, so I guess that moves it. I was talking about good guy angels, right? And then we have, I guess the demons would be the bad angels. Or if there aren't fallen angels, then what are they?
Speaker 1:oh, yeah, right so if demons aren't fallen angels. So there's two views here. What the classic view, as I said, is that demons are fallen angels. They fell with satan either before the garden of eden or sometime after that. Uh, so satan's the dragon. Revelation to the dragon sweeps a third of the stars down with him. The classic view is that that's a third of the angels rebelled with Satan and that's where we get the demons.
Speaker 1:I think the more interesting view and I think the view that really makes a lot of sense from the New Testament and now brace yourselves folks.
Speaker 1:But the other view is the Nephilim theory, that demons so there are fallen angels the watcher, the sons of God in Genesis 6, the sons of God from Genesis 10 and 11, and possibly some others in Revelation 12, if that rebellion refers to one that occurred at the incarnation.
Speaker 1:So there are fallen angels, let's say. But if demons are distinct from that, the view of the early church and of most of Judaism in the second temple period, that's the time between the silent years and the New Testament, is that demons are disembodied spirits of the dead Nephilim, which were the giants. So you have to accept first that the Nephilim were this hybrid species of angel-human hybrids that had supernatural power and they were a perversion of creation that God wiped out in the flood, and then later they show up again in the land of Canaan, and that's the giant clans that the Israelites talk about when they're coming into the land of Canaan. And that's the giant clans that the Israelites talk about when they're coming into the land of Canaan. And the Israelites wiped them out too. So the Nephilim, the giants in the Old Testament, all get wiped out. And here's the cool part the last giant to get wiped out is Goliath.
Speaker 2:He was the last one.
Speaker 1:Well, he's either the last one. Well, he's symbolic. He's either the last one or one of his brothers is the last one. Okay, but he is symbolic of. So who kills him?
Speaker 2:David.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so the line of David wipes out the line of the Nephilim. Okay, awesome. So that connection, if you understand that connection, when you get to the New Testament, their view of demons being the disembodied spirits, of these giants that roam the earth. So if they're these spirits that are neither fully angel nor fully human, like, where do they go? Where?
Speaker 1:do they belong. This is the thinking in the Jewish mind. So they are basically spirits of the air. They roam the earth and they seek to be re-embodied. There's some Jewish traditions, like the book of Enoch and some others, that allude to this thinking in the Jewish mindset. Now it sounds kind of crazy, but there's some overlap in the New Testament for this, and the people who usually dismiss this theory as like crazy crackpot usually are not aware of the scholarship behind this argument, because that scholarship is very recent, based on the documents that have been uncovered and translated and things like that.
Speaker 1:But this was actually the view of the early church up until the time of Augustine. Well, there was one guy named Julius Africanus who proposed that the Genesis 6 wasn't about hybrid species but was like the Sethite and the Canite sorry, the lines of Seth and Cain, mixing not angels and humans. But outside of Julius Africanus in the third century and then Augustine, in the fourth century, every church father that we know of that we have a citation for believed that the Nephilim were the disembodied spirits of the giants. And in Jewish theology, the disembodied spirits of the giants and in jewish theology, uh, prior to the new testament, we see this thinking too. Uh, so this was, this was the dominant view of the time, and you and you see that in the new. You see hints of that in the new testament where, um, demons are called unclean, unclean spirits, which is a reference back to the old Testament law. The examples of like or just thinking, the demons seeking to possess things. Again that account when the demons, the man of the Gerasenes, asks Jesus what do you have to do with the son of the most high? So that's a title from the Old Testament. So the demon is using legion, which is a military term.
Speaker 1:Again, think back, who were the Nephilim? At least in the Jewish mind? The Nephilim were these ancient warrior kings from old, and in the Old Testament they're called different things. They're called the Rephaim, they're the Anakim or the Anakites. There's some other names I'm drawing a blank on right now.
Speaker 1:But essentially, when this demon-possessed man encounters Jesus, he says what do you have to do with the Son of the Most High? That's that term from the Old Testament Elohim the Most High. So the demon is using a title that would have been used to distinguish God from the other Elohims and he recognizes Jesus as the Son of the Most High, so he's distinct from the other sons of God. He is the only begotten Son of God, so he's important. Only begotten son of god, so he's he's important.
Speaker 1:Uh, and this demon has a that, that legion military term which it would, it would correspond to these ancient warrior kings, it that's a loose connection. But um, yeah, and then they say, they say, um, have you come to torment us before the time? And in Jewish theology, demons were permitted by God to roam the earth for a certain amount of time, until the judgment day, and then they would be cast into the lake of fire along with their fathers. So that's a long answer to that theory. But that's the theory about the Nephilim, the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim. That's that demon theory. So what does that do for us? I don't know. I have to do some more thinking on if that really changes anything for us when it comes to dealing with the problem of demonic possession in this world One of my friends who's a theologian as well.
Speaker 1:I think he's probably got some better thinking on this. I couldn't quote him right now and explain what the relevance of that is for common-day demon possession, but anyway, that's the theory.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's good. One or two questions that will probably help our audience. A lot is, sometimes we're not always aware of how sins or things that we're involved with can provide openings for demonic possession or just for an attack in a sense. So are there doorways or pathways of spiritual warfare, such as humanization, that are more specific than sin? Are there specific sins or activities that would elicit a spiritual attack?
Speaker 1:Are there specific sins or activities that would elicit a spiritual attack. Yeah, so I'm going to speak from this, just based on what I've read and listened to from guys who deal with this, like the Protestants, catholics, eastern Orthodox people who have dealt with exorcism, let's say so I'm going to reference them and defer to them on this. I'm going to reference them and defer to them on this. But anything dealing with the occult, including board games like the Ouija board, but it could also be very well, trauma can be a doorway as well. Again, these are not necessary connections.
Speaker 1:I would say the occult is a pretty wide open door. But any form of divination or New Age spirituality, yeah, that stuff's a wide open door. But, um, like any, any, any form of, even divination or new age, yeah, that stuff, that stuff's a wide open door. You're, you're, you're really playing, you're literally well, not literally playing with fire, but you're metaphorically playing with fire, um, but, but things, things like, um, sexual sin is a is a big one, that that, uh, is referenced a lot as far as like a doorway.
Speaker 2:What do you mean? Referenced?
Speaker 1:Oh, by the people who deal with deliverance ministries. It's like sexual sin or sexual trauma. It can be a doorway. Yeah Things you know, this is an interesting one, like curses, like people speaking curses, which there's some debate about, how much power like, if someone speaks a curse over another person, how much power there is there's there's debate and evangelical circles about that, so I won't be too dogmatic about that one. But, um, yeah, like I I think false teaching, um, certain forms of false teaching, can open you up to demonic influence.
Speaker 2:I mean, you know every episode on that. People don't even realize it sometimes that's a tricky one, that's going to be a scary one, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know I do, but just to comfort people in this, it doesn't seem to be that demonic influence is something that you can just kind of like accidentally come into. Now maybe I'm wrong about that, but uh, because some people get really paranoid and they think like, oh, like I, you know, I turned left instead of right, you know, and I and I said a curse word. Now I'm demonized or something. I don't know. I don't have a view into the spiritual world, so I can't say that for certain, but it seems to be very deliberate, willful things that people do, like a willful decision to sin, willful decision to get involved in the occult and other things like that.
Speaker 1:Blasphemy, playing around even if you're not like going full bore into the occult stuff, but just dabbling or playing around making light of the spiritual world I think is dangerous. So anything like that. The reason I say that is because some people just want to chalk it up to like I think it's dangerous. So anything like that, yeah, the reason I say that is because some people just want to chalk it up to like well, spiritual warfare is just about dealing with sin in your life. It's like well, yeah, in a general sense, yeah, but there is this more specific form that we've been talking about for four episodes now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so we want to give specific answers to that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, episodes now. Yeah, yeah, and so we want to give specific answers to that, absolutely. So, I think, expanding on that, creating some level of awareness as well as some information that they can use, that other Christians can use to combat this and be aware of this reality.
Speaker 1:So one last thing. I tell my students this the supernatural is real, paranormal is real, but don't believe everything you hear. Sometimes people lie, sometimes they're just crazy and sometimes, uh, there's charlatans out there everywhere. So you got to filter everything through scripture and through the holy spirit too. John says in first, test the spirits, you have to test them, and I think you do that through the council of believers too. I'm into that, brother. So theology is a love for the truth and a war for the truth.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that Good quote. That's my quote.
Speaker 1:I made that up, did you? Yeah, I'm going to quote you on that, yeah. Yeah, awesome, I'm going to quote you on that, yeah yeah, awesome.
Speaker 2:Well, guys, thank you for joining us for these last couple of episodes. You guys asked for this right, the spiritual warfare and how this applies to life, how this applies to counseling. So hopefully you guys enjoy this series, enjoy this Q&A, and we look forward to hearing more about your topics. Remember to message us through Instagram or send us through email at psychandtheo at gmailcom, and remember, as always, leave us reviews. Let us know how you're enjoying the show. That's always encouraging for us. We'll see you next time.