Episode 4: Does Reverse Racism Exist?

Chris grew up among a predominantly Hispanic population and came to love the culture, food, and familial ties he was invited into. It cemented his lifelong passion as a chef. 
But while he realized that it’s the celebration of cultural traditions that binds us all together, he saw that many others felt slighted, and chose to focus on hot button, political issues not in their favor, like immigration and border walls. The issues that tear us apart. 

Transcript

Chris: 0:10

So I would hear things from from family members. Like, I'm the least racist person you've ever met, or you'll ever meet. And that in itself is just, it's such a problematic statement, like on so many different levels. pretty ridiculous.

DB Crema: 0:31

This is United States of race, personal stories of how our earliest memories determine a lifetime of relationships. I'm your host, DB crema. In this week's episode, we talked with Chris, who grew up predominantly among an Hispanic population, and came to love the food, the culture, and the strong familial ties that he got invited into. And it cemented his lifelong passion as a chef. But while he focused on the things that bring us together, like celebration of cultural traditions, he saw that many others still focus on hot button political issues like immigration and border walls. Those are issues that fixate not on the humanity that binds us, but rather on the things that tear us apart. And as Chris talks about, some truly believe that the act of championing equality for all is just a way of people trying to keep the white man down. But you know what that is, that's what's been coined the scarcity mentality, the fear that there's a limited amount of resources, and that for some to gain or to finally get more, others have to experience a loss, actually love how Isabel Wilkerson so beautifully writes about this idea in her book caste. She says, in a caste system, such as race that is upheld by a perception of scarcity, when a lower caste person goes up around, an upper caste person must come down. It's this idea that the elevation of others amounts to a demotion of oneself versus fighting for equality feels like a demotion. And it's that reason why people are so reticent to change, or to change their viewpoint about privilege and equality. And I don't think that's something that can easily be addressed head on, you know, you benefit from racism, or you're perpetuating racist ideas, and you must change. Now, rather much like managing and resolving any type of conflict, it comes down to understanding positions and interests, you requires taking the time to understand people's perspectives and their preoccupations. It also requires people to push themselves to focus more on what we hold in common than what divides us. And that is where we can affect change. When did you become aware of race?

Chris: 3:19

I guess, the first time I can remember race being something of consequence. No surprise has to do with food. Anyone that knows me will know that. memories for me are highly connected to food and culture and identity. Before I guess I get into that, a bit of context. I grew up in San Antonio, Texas. So we could be close to family, specifically my paternal grandparents, and their home was on the west side of the city. The west side of San Antonio had and still does, very strong Latin presence, Hispanic, traditionally Roman Catholic, multi generational families under under one roof. So outside of like the economic demographic, you know, where we fell tax bracket was outside of having that in common there were plenty of differences between my family and and the neighbors. But I wasn't really aware of any of that before the age of six. Around this time, my mom was pregnant, and I ended up spending more time with my grandmother at her home. And I would play outside and socialize with the neighbors. I can remember like chasing after loose balls. I can remember learning to play hopscotch and roller skate in the driveways And then eventually, I was invited in for meal times. And I think it was around. Certainly around a holiday of some sort, I think it was Easter, I walked into a scene of something I'd never experienced before I was invited in into this home, I walked into their lovely kitchen, and the entire family was gathered around this communal long table. And they were all taking part in this honored tradition of making tamales. You know, you see young children sitting on the laps of the next generation, their parents will both generations watched the matriarch of the family working, she's spreading the the exact right amount of masa prepared corn mash, onto the soaked corn husks, and then filling it with vibrant fillings, chicken and pork and chilies, and then precisely wrapping them into like neat little packages for steaming later on. And the first dozen or so were just like a demonstration for anyone who had never seen this before the young and myself included. And then we would be invited, the newbies would be invited to roll up our sleeves, try our luck and kind of earn a spot at the table. And I did and you know, not a very good job. Of course, it's my first time doing anything like that. It was was a crazy experience for me. And I think it was mostly just like the novelty of it all.

DB Crema: 6:44

So what was so new about it? Was it the tamales specifically that you were being introduced this kind of new food that you didn't know? Or was it a scene with family that you were accustomed to,

Chris: 7:00

before this experience and helping form the tamales, I didn't really know anything of the traditions or the family structures within the Hispanic community, I've never seen any representation of that. And they took such pride in who they were their cultural identities, their traditions. And I didn't understand any of that. I think partially because I didn't have a lot of that myself growing up. So this moment, in particular, I think stuck with me, just because of this idea of culture really evident in this process that was happening in front of me. And I realized that my own culture, we didn't have anything like that. And then not only did I get my first taste of like family style, family secret tamale recipe, but I also got a you know, peek inside another culture and their beautiful tradition and be a part of that, that was super special. So like naturally, after that, I would insist that our family should start making tamales on holidays and special occasions. And I would I would be met with a lot of a lot of comments like, you know, it's actually not that easy. It's a lot of effort. And, well, I don't have a recipe for that. And this would be much easier if we just bought them from the lady at work, who sells them in the parking lot. Things like that. What I didn't understand was that, you know, there was no real link to the act of making tamales for the rest of my family. There's like no real cultural significance, no ties to that act. And at that age, as far as race goes, I only saw the physical and tangible differences between my grandmother's neighbors and, and my family. And that was you know, the tone of our, the tone of our skins were were different color. You know, that's pretty much it. That was the extent of my understanding. And I didn't really grasp the larger concepts at play, like cultural identity or racial tension or division. And then also, at that time, say the overwhelming sentiment, I'll be it. Maybe a quiet or one of the people around me was that Hispanic culture was was less than and I guess, up into a certain point, for me it was fairly unrecognizable as racism, which is kind of the way of the world is just the way people looked at other people, because they were different, I guess a fairly decent example of this would be, again, kind of revolves around food. There are a ton a ton of Mexican food restaurants in, in San Antonio, they're very, very common in the area that I grew up in. There's like literally one on every other corner. And a common phrase for something that ubiquitous that my dad would use is a diamond doesn't. So like, you know, there's a dozen of them. They're all worth, you know, 10 cents. And that turn of phrase, I think it very much summarizes the expectations of most white people in the area for their beloved taco shops. The expectation is that they're consistent and cheap. You know, you'd hear comments, like, it's also simple, why are we why are we paying this much for it? And, you know, just hearing these comments off hand, it might not seem very harmful. But I don't know. Over time, I guess, built up over a lifetime. I think, as a child, you hear them over and over again. And I think that they, they show this level of disrespect and subtle degradation. And like dilution of this beautiful culture, this this culture that I that I wish shown that I was, you know, privy to, at a young age? And

DB Crema: 11:40

how did that make you feel? Like, what did you think about that?

Chris: 11:44

So, before I was able to make fully informed decisions on the ways of the world, and how I stacked up to the people around me, I was essentially being fed these subtle lines of, you're better than, or rather, this other type of person is less than because of XY and Z. And it's harmful. It's it is it's, it may not be intended to harm. Just as those little comments, they just add up to something greater. A greater threat, I guess.

DB Crema: 12:31

Do you feel like you absorbed or do you feel like you absorbs that kind of societal norm of, of distinctions and run race and culture? So I

Chris: 12:43

think that, you know, over time, you you do start to absorb these, these ideas as Yeah, you accept them as, as norms as the way society works? Mm hmm. That Oh, yeah, I'm, I'm clearly higher on a on a social scale, then then this culture, because, because it's what I've been been hearing, you know, so subtly, over so many years. I don't know, I can remember times when discussions around employment, or unemployment, unemployment, they were spurred on by by both of my parents, going back to going back to school, and then finishing up their respective programs and their degrees, and then re entering the workforce. And I can just remember conversations, like idle chatter amongst, you know, friends, acquaintances, and like family members and stuff. They just bring up the the topic of illegal immigrants, and how illegal immigrants were coming across the border. And were, you know, quote, unquote, taking good paying jobs from honest everyday Texans. You know, I just remember it was a raging topic at the time, which is fairly ironic, considering my own background, being the child of an immigrant myself. And if it was happening at all, it was happening in difficult labor intensive jobs in you know, in landscaping, and hospitality and construction and maintenance, and housekeeping and childcare and agriculture, like you name it, you know,

DB Crema: 14:40

job, other people didn't want to do right, right,

Chris: 14:43

exactly. So like, oftentimes, these jobs were looked down upon. White people don't want to do them, and it creates this this vacuum of employment, it it has to be filled. It does get filled by anyone who's looking for employment, just so happens to be that those people are, were, at the time Hispanic, and being looked at being looked down upon as second class citizens because of it. It's like doubles down on the idea that Hispanic culture is, is less than is very hard to, like, come to terms with. But what do

DB Crema: 15:27

you think about the idea of reverse racism does it? You know, you're talking about your parents in their, in their scholastic endeavors and like, you know, to your point, they're kind of whether they're using the actual term or not, they're saying they're kind of making those claims like, yeah, what do you think about the idea of racism?

Chris: 15:50

I think, I think I don't think much about the idea of reverse racism to be quite honest. When I when I when I hear it, I kind of scoff. And I think that there are people in my family, maybe not immediate family. Who would prescribe to that, you know, well, people are just trying to keep down the white man, which is absolutely absurd to me. I don't understand where this idea comes from, and how you could be so delusional to like, believe something like that. I just don't I don't know.

DB Crema: 16:35

Why is an absurd idea.

Chris: 16:37

Why is it an absurd idea? I think because I think it's an absurd idea. Because we have we speaking in the plural here, for for other white people have this distinct advantage. You know, I, I feel like being born white, I, I can't help that I was born white. No less than anyone else can help that they were born, whatever race they were born. But I just I don't think that there's this, there's this innate force holding me back because my skin is white. The the way that the way that history has unfolded, at least from my point of view, we've always had the upper hand, we've always had the, the right of way, so to speak. We're always starting. Not from behind, not with our, you know, our hands tied behind our backs. To support the idea of, of otherwise, that that we're being suppressed in some way is absurd. I just don't I don't understand how you could how you confuse a walk that way, I guess.

DB Crema: 18:03

But didn't you? I mean, he didn't say this. And but didn't you feel like a minority when you're a kid, you know, spending time with your parent, your grandmother, your grandparents house in a place where you were the only white person like did that stick out to you like, didn't you feel so

Chris: 18:20

the school district that I belong to, I think was Don't quote me on this. I, I believe was 15% to 20%. White, and the other? What's the math there? The other 8080 to 75% was something other than white. And so yeah, there were times where I didn't understand why someone black or brown was being called a minority. You know, in my own brain, I said, I'm the I'm in the minority. Here, I, I have a group of 15 friends, three of them are white, the others have some mix, at the very least of something else, a diverse cast of characters, so to speak. And that was something to contend with, but only, I think only for a short while until I realized the actual way of the world in which I'm not part of a minority. Certainly not in the power structure. In society, I'm not a part of a minority. So my own upbringing being being raised by an immigrant mother, I think endeared me to Hispanic culture and challenged me to be more accepting of, of all cultures, not just Hispanic culture. And I think about the long communal table that was present that the family built there. There tamales around. And a conjures the images of my very large German family, my mother's side of the family who, who still like to this day, especially on special occasions, comes together for for meal times. And I think about the matriarch of their family and the reverence and like respect that they showed, as she, you know, sat amongst everyone and passed along this tradition. And then I think about, well, I think about how that mirrors my own grandmother's, both of whom, you know, took me under their wing in their kitchens, said, let me show you how to do this, let me show you how to do that to try and pass along some sort of cultural identity of my own. And I think my early learnings, really helps me to understand and helps me to find, like these bridges that that can span the divides between people. Mm hmm.

DB Crema: 21:07

I was, I was thinking about that. And in particular, something you said about, you know, you didn't have any control over being born white, and other people don't have any control over being born, whatever color that they're born, and just made me think like, what if one of these days we're no longer born into any race?

Chris: 21:27

Well, I think this, this may be a bit far fetched. But I think that eventually, if the human species is to survive, there won't be any, any racial differences or divides it, the human species in a far flung reality, you know, 1000s of years from now won't be white and black, it won't be different shades of brown, it will be a homogenized mixture. And I find that pretty beautiful to think about, kind of hopeful, really hopeful thought that we could still maintain our, our identities and know where we came from, and that the human races, many celebrations of, of, of identity and, and, and still. See, this is why I write things down. I almost got there, I almost got there. Um, I think that there's a time in the far flung future that we will have a human species that exists, that not only recognizes its multicultural backgrounds, but will look not of any one particular shade, but a but a homogenized group of people. I think that's, that's kind of what I'm trying to say. Yeah, I get it. When you when you bring up that question I nowhere, nowhere on your list. But that's, but that's,

DB Crema: 23:15

that's really what I think about right. So I mean, the question, it was a different way of asking, you know, what, what would it look like, if you could if you could imagine what the world would look like, if we no longer taught race? Right? So it's this idea of like, if we were no longer born any race, because just the concept of race?

Chris: 23:32

Yeah, I guess I guess that's taking it a little bit more literally, I think probably because the literal, the literal interpretation of that makes more sense to me. Because I don't, I don't know that certain sectors of humanity can look beyond the differences. I'm not sure that there will ever be a time when people don't say, look at that person, they're different than I am, I'm going to tell my prodigy that they're different than I am, you know, they're different than we are. You know, it's a very hopeful thought. But hopefully, you can celebrate those differences and not focus on, you know, being different. We also have some form of humanity, we all still, you know, gather on a table to eat food together, that we all we all have respect and reverence for our elders. That we all you know, we all love and, and laugh and, you know, experience emotions in the same way. And that's a hopeful thought that people could look past race and not teach it to their children.

DB Crema: 24:54

Thanks for listening to United States of rates. This podcast was produced by me. dB crema. We'd love to hear from you. Send us a one minute Voice Memo with any reactions, questions or stories you'd like to share. You can use the app on your phone to record the voice memo and email it to United States of race@gmail.com. That's United States of race@gmail.com. It might even be included in an upcoming episode. And be sure to hit follow or subscribe on whichever podcast platform you're listening. That way you won't miss a single moment. Until next time,