The Wilderness Grief of COVID Loss

When life hands us the unimaginable, the journey through the wilderness of grief can feel insurmountable. Jocelyn joins us today to share her personal experiences, marked by the devastating loss of friends and the heartbreak of losing both her parents to COVID-19 within a mere week. Her story illustrates the unpredictable nature of grief and the vital importance of preparing for life's most challenging moments, even when they seem far beyond the horizon.

Through the lens of her experiences, we examine the profound effect of hospital negligence and the tragedy it compounds during times of crisis. The stark contrast in care received by her parents during the pandemic spotlights the harrowing decisions families must navigate within an overwhelmed healthcare system. As Jocelyn recounts advocating for her loved ones and facing the barriers of hospital protocols, listeners are given a raw glimpse into the emotional toll of end-of-life care, offering a sobering reminder of the strength required to confront such adversity. In the aftermath of her loss, Jocelyn shares her journey on a path to healing. She worked through the impact of life without a will, to solace found in human design, the Akashic records, and yoga nidra, her evolution as an Akashic records guide and advocate for soul art therapy emerges. Her approach champions the memory of her lineage and the importance of honoring our ancestors through creativity and remembrance. As Jocelyn provides resources for listeners grappling with grief or emotional imbalance, her story becomes a beacon for those navigating the tumultuous waters of loss, and an invitation to find support, understanding, and growth in one's own journey.

Contact:
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info@asiliveandgrieve.com
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To Reach Jocelyn:
Website:  https://www.jocelynbates.net/
Email:  artsetc@mac.com


Credits: 
Music by Kevin MacLeod 

Copyright 2020, by As I Live and Grieve

The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the program does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. 

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:01

Welcome to as I Live and Grieve, a podcast that tells the truth about how hard this is. We're glad you joined us today. We know how hard it is to lose someone you love and how well-intentioned friends and family try so hard to comfort us. We created this podcast to provide you with comfort, knowledge and support. We are grief advocates, not professionals, not licensed therapists. We are you.

Speaker 2 0:46

Hi everyone, welcome back again to as I Live and Grieve, not professionals, not licensed.

Speaker 3 0:50

Thank you for having me. Could you just tell our listeners a little bit about yourself? Who is Jocelyn? Who is Jocelyn? Well, I'm a creative person. I like to call myself a cultivator of curiosity and creativity, and I'm a bit spiritual, and I am my mother and father's daughter. They brought me up this way. And, yeah, I'm somebody who just likes to really jump into what this human experience is. The psychology of it, the physicality of it, the spirituality of it, it all fascinates me, and then I like to share what I learn.

Speaker 2 1:32

There you go, and there are so many people out there that need that. They need someone that will share what they themselves have learned. I heard a great term, I think it was just yesterday. Somebody called themselves an experiencer and I thought, oh, that's me. That's me, because I'll hear about a new modality or something a little bit different. Nothing, oh, I'm curious about that. Let me give that one a try, and I just want to experience. It Doesn't mean I'm going to become certified in it, it just means I want to know more about it. So I love that term. So, along with creative, perhaps you yourself are an experiencer and maybe you don't have your background. In on your website, I see what I'm going to label as an eclectic collection of certifications and modalities that you use to help people, and I guess that's fascinating, and we'll get into that a little bit more For the purposes of our audience and our specific topic of grief. How has grief touched your life.

Speaker 3 2:33

Well, actually, grief is the reason I have so many eclectic. There you go. But I actually have experienced grief. I mean, the first time that I lost someone other than a great grandparent was when I was in freshman year of high school, when a friend shot themselves. Oh dear, that was my first experience of grief. And then I was I loved. This is a silly thing, but I loved.

Speaker 3 2:57

When I was a teenager, I was so into boys with long hair and they were all musicians and they were all musicians, so I stayed in that world and many not to say that people with long hair have drug addictions, but at that time, in the 90s, you know, heroin and cocaine were really popular, so I lost a lot of friends to overdoses, and so by the time I was in my 20s, I had been to 10 to 12 funerals of friends. And then, of course, I've lost, you know, family members. 10 to 12 funerals of friends, and then, of course, I've lost, you know, family members. And but then in 2021, I actually was writing a book on grief because I was like you know what this is a problem coming up? Now it's like, but now it's like pharmaceutical drugs and fentanyl, yeah, these other yeah. So I wanted to I don't know bring some awareness to it and I'd said to my friend at the time I said you know, grief is really, really hard and if I ever lost my parents, I wouldn't survive, like I just wouldn't do it.

Speaker 2 3:53

Three weeks later, my parents died, seven days apart. Three weeks later and seven days apart.

Speaker 3 3:57

Yeah, my goodness, together, wow and so. And then also in that three weeks, my mother who they were very healthy my mother brings me upstairs because I'm an only child and we lived with them, with our family brings me upstairs to say, you know, in case me and your father are both gone, like you need to know or something happens to us together, you need to know where the paperwork is. And I was like, are you kidding me? But she grabbed my hand and pulled me in to show me where the paperwork not that I know anything about it at that point, right. But and then you know, about two and a half weeks later, they had gone on their 51st anniversary to Atlantic City.

Speaker 3 4:31

Because you know, that was like COVID time, sure, so sure they couldn't celebrate. Their 50th anniversary is 2020, september. So they went on like a week vacation to Atlantic City, gambling and on the beach and all this stuff. And when they came back, we all in the house got COVID. I mean, I think we actually had two strains, because I think my kids got it and I think they got it from being in Atlantic City, sure, and so it was kind of in the house and I didn't think actually the first thing of it because my kids had a sniffle and I was like, oh, this must be a summer, cold Right.

Speaker 2 5:02

Because we just didn't want to believe that the pandemic was really the pandemic. Did we? Yeah?

Speaker 3 5:08

I thought they had a cold. They were fine, no fevers, and then I went down and then I watched my parents go down, you know, and we're a very holistic family. So here's another thing that happened is that we're not like vaccinated or anything. We never fell into that. But I did order ivermectin, but you couldn't get it here in New Jersey for a really long time. So I ordered it from Germany and it was held up at customs and it came to us the day my mom died. It was supposed to be there two weeks earlier. No, I was like the universe just like wants, yeah, no, I don't even know. But all this strange stuff was happening. And I remember the day she died the ivermectin came and I was like, are you kidding me? Not that I could have given it to her in the hospital, because, sure, sure, but I could have given it to her a week prior. And so they were very healthy and they got COVID and I went down really hard.

Speaker 3 6:02

I went down for like 24 hours. I was like shivering, shaking, almost convulsing, between the fever that was running and leaving, yeah, the high and low, and so I couldn't even get out of bed and in that time I actually, right before that happened, I saw my mom and she was laying on the couch and I'd never seen her lay on the couch and I was like Mom, are you okay? Like do you need something? And she says no, but I love you, I'm fine. You know, that was the last thing, that last time I saw her herself.

Speaker 3 6:32

And so I went up, went down and at the end of that 24 hour period, the first thing I did was check on my parents because I didn't hear them. Why don't I hear them? And my mom was in another world, I don't even know Like. We called 911. My dad didn't know what was going on. He was just like I feel like I'm going to die, like, but he was actually up and down, he was.

Hospital Negligence and Tragic Loss

Speaker 3 6:52

My mom wasn't leaving the bed, so I tried to talk to her and she's mumbling at me and I'm like I don't understand. And so we called 911. And of course it was COVID time. So people were very strange and the 911 people come and they're in a big semicircle around my mom, like 10 feet away. It's in a big room, and they're like, ma'am, this is just COVID, and meanwhile my mom doesn't know her name. Oh my God, there's no idea what's going on.

Speaker 3 7:16

She's like mumbling. She's like, already you know she can't get up to go to the bathroom or anything. She can't hold her weight. I said are you kidding me? She needs to go to the hysterectomy. Why are you waiting? Iv I'm thinking it's an IV or an oxygen. Sure, so half hour later I talked them into taking her oxygen level and it's 72. Oh, my goodness. And so they take her in. But they and they left my dad cause he was fine. Really, he was just feeling COVID, yeah. And then they brought my mom in. They left her on a gurney in the emergency room and they never, like, brought her in. But you have to remember I wasn't allowed to go anywhere. Sure, that's the protocol, right? So she was unknown patient for almost five hours. Oh, no.

Speaker 3 7:59

And not given any oxygen. And she wasn't given oxygen in the ambulance either. So by the time they found her she was 60% oxygen. Yeah, oh dear, nobody knew what was going on. I was calling where's my mom. They go. We haven't had that woman. We haven't had any. No one's been admitted by that name, right.

Speaker 3 8:14

So eventually my husband went down. They wouldn't let him see her just from a distance he's like that's her. And they put her in and they gave her oxygen and IVs and she was doing good. And then they started doing all these medications. And for a woman who was 74, who never took a medication in her life, they gave her 18 black 18 medications, seven of which were black box, and if anyone knows that black box means it has a death, yes, yeah. So she in that first. Though when she first had just the oxygen and the IV, she was back to herself. It was really, it was weird. I was like, oh, that's great, but they didn't tell me anything because advocating during that time was hard and they had the PrEP Act which allowed people, allowed the hospitalth.

Speaker 3 8:57

And then my dad went in on the 7th because he was 6'5" and his oxygen was fine, but he was like sitting down and standing up. He would get dizzy as soon as he was up or as soon as he was down. It would regulate. He fell and he couldn't get up, and our house is full of stairs and I think my dad just really wanted to go be with my mom in the hospital. I think he had some idea that he would be able to see her. So he was like just get me to the hospital, you know, because they'd never. My dad was a PTSD veteran and he met my mom right after Vietnam and like that's the story, so there's no one without the other. And so he went. He went in and with him they treated him much differently. They gave him oxygen. They were so kind, they brought him in. Everything was like they treated him so much differently.

Speaker 3 9:52

And then so there was like by the 7th I had both of my parents in there, but my mom was starting to have side effects from all the drugs and she was starting to go down, like really fast. Her kidneys started to stop, like really fast. Her kidneys started to stop. She couldn't move, she was like in pain all the time and I couldn't see them. I wasn't allowed in.

Speaker 3 10:12

So what I would get were these calls from the nurses saying your mother's not complying, she won't do what we asked her to do. And so I called my mom. I say, mom, what's happening? She said it hurts so bad, I just want a pillow. When I say, can you please give my mom some pillows, just something to help her, they wanted her to like lay on her stomach, but one of the side effects of the drugs was that every muscle hurt, sure, so she couldn't stay there.

Speaker 3 10:32

So, you know, the nurses told me they would do all of that, which they never did. Right, and my dad was fine. He just had what are those things that they put in your nose Nasal cannulas, the cannula, yeah, he had that, he had that, and he was like, but they kept them four rooms apart and they never brought them to see each other, and at that time my mom and my dad could only I could only get in touch with them if I called them and they answered. They had to answer Right, which is a problem when you're in and out, of you know. So finally, the hospital calls and says my mom needs to be put on comfort care, she's going right and you just need to give her morphine and make her comfortable, but about, and I said I want to see her, and they kept saying no, you can't see her, no, you can't see her.

Speaker 3 11:14

And at some point one of the nurses actually made a move and said you have both your parents here. We haven't had this before. You can come in and see your parents. She wasn't there, right. I did notice she had, like no, she was freezing. There were no covers on her except a thin sheet, one tiny thin pillow under her head. Her feet were sticking out. No one was coming in the room, and so I just sat there and I massaged her and she was not there. But I said what I needed to say.

Speaker 3 11:46

And then they surprised me by bringing my dad in. And so my dad came in in a wheelchair, because they didn't want him standing up and getting down, but also in a plexiglass box with a door on it. It was a plexiglass box that had not much room for his head and arms, but it was attached to the wheelchair right, so he couldn't move out of it. So they wheel him in, they open the door and they say you know, your wife's going to die. But I hadn't been able to tell him because he wasn't answering his phone so and he couldn't kiss her or hug her or get up. He could only try to hold her hand and he had no idea this was happening. So it was a mess. It was a mess. I remember my dad said he said she's suffering and he said I can be angry but I can't be sad. And he lost it and he just wasn't able to say anything.

Speaker 1 12:29

Yeah.

Speaker 3 12:29

And so I stood. I stayed there and then, about 20, 30 minutes to my dad being in there, the nurses said we had to leave. We were already told she's going to die. So I said please let us sit with her. My mom should not die alone, right, right, she's so afraid of hospitals and I can't believe I put her here. I was like in a mess. I was a mess Of, I was a mess Of course, and they said you need to be grateful that we even let you here and you need to leave. And so they escorted me out, escorted my dad out, and my mom died 20 minutes after I left the hospital. And when I looked back at the medical records, they didn't know that until an hour and a half later. They didn't even check on her while this was happening.

Speaker 3 13:09

So about that night my dad called me and he said this is your world now on. But he hadn't shaved in a really long time, so he was really itchy and he was really uncomfortable with the mask. He didn't want to be here, no one, they gave him no support and he stopped. Once he said those words to me, he stopped answering the phone. So another day later it might even have been two days later, maybe a day, I don't know but the hospital calls me and says, well, your father's not dealing well with the restraints. And I said the restraints, they didn't run anything by me. I said what do you mean? The restraints? My dad was blown up in Vietnam so he has a lot of, he had a lot of Well, sure. And they said well, he's restrained to the bed because he keeps taking the oxygen mask off. I said you don't run this by me.

Speaker 3 14:08

So what happened is I think what happened is I completely wet, my mom died, I. I had to let that go to take care of my dad and so I don't. I didn't really process that at all. Yeah, and I, I, they. I said you show me what's happening with my dad. And they put a zoom, like into the room and my dad's arms were restrained to the bed and he was now such a gentle giant of a person like he was screaming opens the you know yeah thing window and like his face was turning red. Oh, I said you, you stop this like, get him out of this cruel. And they said, well, the only way we're going to get him off the restraints is if you put him on hospice care. I said what does hospice care mean, then they?

Speaker 2 14:46

just medicate him, yeah, yeah, just medicate him till he's pretty much unresponsive, right, and that's what they, what they did.

Speaker 3 14:53

I gave the option to my family because I knew I was not the only person that he was family, but I knew that I was going to do it anyway, because there's no way I would. I know what my dad wanted. He called me, he told me what he wanted, and now they're restraining him in this way that it was absolutely horrific, and so the only option I was given was restraints or more pain, basically. So he, I put him on hospice care and, to be honest, the want you to talk to him while I'm stroking his hair Like she would. She was so good, right, right. And she called me right before he died for me to say I love you, and then he died.

Speaker 3 15:41

So I didn't get to see him again after that time. They wouldn't let me back in the hospital, wow. So then he died and I had both of their bodies at the funeral home ready for cremation and I was so in shock that I didn't understand anything Like how could this happen? My parents were healthy, no problems, like out of nowhere. And so I said I think I need to see the bodies. Like I can't see him to get around this. Like this is something that if I don't see these, I don't want to see the bodies, but if I don't see their bodies I'm going to live for years.

Speaker 2 16:11

You need that closure. You need that closure.

Speaker 3 16:13

Yeah, and yeah, and due to COVID protocol, I was not allowed to see their bodies yeah, which is like so crazy to me. And so we had a. We had them cremated and my parents were actually neighbors when they were young, so my family's know each other from even when they were really young, and not one family member came in person to the funeral. They all were on Zoom. One of my uncles said he didn't want anyone going because they would catch COVID. So it was me, my husband, my kids, my husband's mom and grandmother and my ex-boyfriend and his family. Those are the only people and I have between my both families. I have at least six and five aunts and uncles and kids and I just felt so alone. I mean I know they were there on Zoom and I understand it's not the same, it's unique, it's not the same.

Speaker 2 17:05

Yeah, yeah, just to have the people there. You know it's just this story you've told is. That's an insight into COVID that I've not yet heard. I so appreciate you being so candid about it and willing to share that, because you know you hear references made to the hospitals and the staff and everything like that. But to actually be able to feel that experience through someone else telling you their story is incredible. So thank you for that from the bottom of my heart, because it really puts the pandemic into a whole different light in my mind.

Speaker 2 17:40

I was fortunate that I did not experience any of that at all. My family myself, I never got COVID. We think my older grandson may have had it before anyone even knew that the pandemic was the pandemic, because he's not one to be ill Yet he was down and out for almost a month with a virus type ailment. So we're pretty convinced that he may have had it. But the rest of us never got it during the pandemic. Now my daughter and her husband have both had it since the pandemic was over. I'm putting that in air quotes. Yes, who knows when that happened, it's never really over. But even myself and I'm in my 70s but I have never gotten COVID, but again to hear the story about that experience is incredible and I'm so sorry that you had to experience that and that your parents had to be a part of it.

Speaker 1 18:37

My heart goes out to you.

Speaker 2 18:38

Now, were you practicing your modalities in your career while they were ill, or did this kind of result after?

Speaker 3 18:47

I've been an expressive art therapist since 2002, intermodal, so I've been working in the field of arts and healing okay for a long time and I've been teaching creativity on like things like out school. I was working very heavily during that time on out school, teaching specifically teenagers how to open up their creativity, because schools tend to shut it down in some way, right yes so uh, but, but.

Navigating Grief and Healing Journey

Speaker 3 19:11

But after that happened and I had, I had months, months I was in such shock and PTSD from that that I dissociated completely, like I have no memory of that Halloween, that my dad's birthday was right after that, that Thanksgiving, that that Christmas my mom's birthday is January 7th. Don't remember that. I don't remember my birthday that year, which is the 25th, but it was like I was bombarded. That's the time of year that everything happens in our family. True, and I was in utter shock. I have pictures of myself smiling with my kids keeping it together, but I don't remember. I don't have a solid memory from, like I'd say, four to five months. And the way I went back into my life was it was the creditors, it was the money people, because my parents were healthy, they didn't even have a will, and because they died seven days apart, I had to do everything twice. Sure, because everything had to be moved to my dad and then had to be moved to me, and so there was so much and I had to go on email, my mom's email, to figure out what was going on. And my mom followed someone in human design who I introduced her to years ago, and I love human design. I do too. Yeah, I do too. And so I reached out and I had no money because, because of all this, the lawyer bills were insane, of course, and so everything in the estate was put into that. Yeah, no-transcript, because kind of the thing that happened.

Speaker 3 21:00

When I was done with that, I found this other human design. I wanted a different viewpoint of human design. I found someone else and it was like a really long, intensive program on like abundance and purpose, and I'm like I need purpose in my life again, like that's what I need. I reached out, I said the same thing she goes, you're in and I. So I got, I did that and then from there I had she. She had a workshop that pointed me toward this woman who does the Akashic records. I didn't know what Akashic records were, I'm like I don't know. But I did this meditation with her and I found myself in a past life and it was so full of grief that I got fascinated. I said, okay, is this in my past life? It felt now my parents had visited me in dreams. I don't know if you've ever had that Like when someone who's gone visits you in a dream. It's a different kind of dream? Yes, it is. It's like lucid. It's like you feel it. You can feel the heat on your arm when they hold your hand, like you can feel it. That was what this past life was like and I was like I don't. And I was like lucid. So I said I have to know more. So I ended up getting a session with her and her explaining to me just what I did. And she was in my records and she goes you're meant to be an Akashic records guy. And she's like I'm going to, I'm going to gift you this. And she sent me on that training. Wow.

Speaker 3 22:08

And then that following December you know, because the whole COVID thing and because my parents were healthy all of a sudden my kids had a lot of sniffles and I went into deep dive of they're going to die Like they're going to die. And you know, grief goes like up and down. So I started having anxiety and that anxiety led to me not sleeping. Because it wasn't sleeping. My anxiety was like through the roof. And because my anxiety was through the roof, it's two days and I'm not sleeping and I'm just watching my kids sleep Please don't die. And they have a sniffle.

Speaker 3 22:39

So I found a yoga nidra teacher. I don't remember how she popped up in my feed, but I found her. Sure, my mom did it and I started doing yoga nidra, guided meditation, and it saved my life at that point because I was able to sleep, and just sleeping it's like OK, I can be less anxious. And when I was less anxious I could sleep a little bit. It was like came back down as a ladder and I started to really dive into my inner world. I was already diving in with human design and Akashic Records, but I was like feeling my whole system balance, which I don't think I had felt since they died. So I reached out to the teacher just to tell her, like I have to tell you, you saved my life, like your, your voice, whatever it is about your voice, it does it for me and she's like you should be a teacher and gave me this. And it just kept happening yeah, and I'm pretty sure it was my mom, of course, of course it's your past.

Speaker 3 23:30

Yep, yep, yep, yeah, and so the last thing I'm doing now is soul art, which is something that I chose for myself, and I know that and it's kind of like, if I think of what I was originally doing, which was expressive art therapy, it's like doing art. I said this in another podcast. It's worked with grief. Who's worked in the prison system? Who's worked with sexual assault? Right, no one ever taught me as a therapist, that anything about the nervous system. No one ever taught me how to balance the nervous system. How is that possible, right? I don't know.

Speaker 3 24:11

So, yeah, so I just followed her breadcrumb, yeah, and you know it was hard. You know, I said I try, and this is like the time of COVID, right, I had tried to go to a therapist right away, knowing my background, because I'm like I will dissociate, like I will if I don't go to somebody. Now, sure, I found an art therapist online and, you know, at that time, everyone was talking about being vaccinated and I'm a very holistic. Vaccine was not even on my radar. And the first question she asks me as I tell her my story is well, were your parents vaccinated? I said no, they would never have gotten vaccinated. She's like well, do you think maybe because your beliefs were so strong you killed them by having them not get vaccinated. What? This is a therapist? Oh no. And I was like what? And she goes well, I can't work with you because you're hurting humanity.

Speaker 3 24:55

And I was like I actually ended up calling the licensure board and the board of her therapist Because if I was suicidal that would have put me over the edge. I wasn't suicidal, I was just associative, but that's the stuff I was dealing with. And then I couldn't find, and then I thought maybe I just need a COVID Other people who understand who lost people during COVID like maybe I just need that, you know. And there was nothing. There was nothing. And it was like this constant trauma because everywhere I went, there were signs on the lawn saying that praise your healthcare workers and all I felt was that they killed them. I felt my parents were neglected and you know, except the hospice nurses Right, right, right the one hospice nurse was the most helpful, and hospice nurses everywhere.

Speaker 2 25:39

Thank you for that comment. I have volunteered in the area of hospice and hospice nurses are indeed a completely different breed. Oh my God, completely yes.

Speaker 3 25:52

She settled my mind on so many levels, yes, but you know everything else. I mean even going back, I'd say, like it took me six months to get the medical records before I could even request them because I was afraid that's only when I found out that they had the 17 medications. No one told me any of this, but there were lies in the medical records. It was my mother's son-in-law said that we could intubate my mom and my mom would never have been intubated, like that would have been so, like, so there were all these things and and I got to see how they talked about my parents. That's how I learned they didn't know for an hour and a half my mom died.

Speaker 3 26:29

Oh, like there was no, there was just this massive to me neglect and I've been. I don't know if you believe in mediums, but I've been to mediums and my mom has come through to three separate mediums saying I was murdered, I was neglected, put my story out and I want a lawsuit. And I'm like, wow, I don't know how to do the lawsuit because it's the PrEP Act, yeah, but she's primed for a remdesivir lawsuit, yeah.

Speaker 2 26:47

Yeah, oh, my goodness, wow, so much in your story. I just I mean, I could probably do three episodes on everything you've said in this very, very short time there is. I mean, suffice it to say in summary that you have an incredible backstory, one that although some people may have most who are practitioners do not have stories in that depth, that are so specific, are so incredible and are so distressful at the same time and I know that that adds a certain dimension to your service and helping others as well that you really having walked that road, that path, that you really can understand when others come to you that have had that type of devastation in their lives. But I have to say and I have to do a segue here because this is really important to me that in looking at your website, I noticed that you have a blog, and this is going to sound to our listeners, so please just bear with me. This is going to sound like what is she doing? She's going in a completely different direction, but you have a blog that's called the Ellegant Crossing.

Speaker 2 27:56

Now, I know that so many people who grieve look at the cardinal as a representation of grief and people we have lost. Yet I know, in the animal world, other animals grieve, and grieve in ways that are truly unique, and grieve in ways that are truly unique such that when you have an opportunity to learn a little bit about them, it can give you, in your own personal grief, a little bit of comfort. So that's where I'm going with this, but could you please, jocelyn, tell us what you learned about elephants grieving and how that has become important to you?

Honoring Ancestry Through Memory and Creativity

Speaker 3 28:36

Yeah, so I love elephants for so many reasons. The tribe of elephants, the slow, steady, intentional movement of the elephants, the way they take care of their young, just the mere strain behind this gentle giant, but with the way they grieve, is something and that's why I called my blog. The Elephant's Crossing is interesting because, you know, they always say well, I think there's always been question, like they always say, the elephant's memory. People talk about the elephant's memory and then some people go. They don't have a memory like that. It's not, but they actually.

Speaker 3 29:11

When an elephant in their tribe dies, every time and they've recorded this every time the members of that tribe cross an area where that elephant died, throughout their entire life will stop and acknowledge and that, like that, is the most beautiful thing to me. They stop, they stay, they wait, they acknowledge and then they move on. And it doesn't matter if they cross it 10 times that day or if it hasn't been a year, if it's been a year and a half, they still know in that spot an elephant in their tribe died and they teach it to their young. You know, as the young are in the tribe, they stop too. So it becomes this map of lineage which is just amazingly beautiful. And you know, one of the things since my parents died is I've been into ancestry. I never was, but I'm really jumping, like I've been for years now, just in that idea of ancestry and what we're made of and where that map of life and death have kind of created those stamps for me In my ancestry.

Speaker 2 30:14

Yeah, yeah, so maybe the elephant story seemed like an unnecessary segue, but let me tie it all together because I'm a firm believer in that. For the people we have lost, it is important that we don't just set it aside. Deal with whatever emotions we're being overwhelmed with, deal with those and just move forward and never look back.

Speaker 2 30:37

deal with those and just move forward, and never look back, I think it's important that, similar to the elephants, that we remember these people because they were such an influence in our lives. In the case of our parents, they shaped us into the person that we have become, in the perspective of a spouse or partner. That is who you built a life with, a dream to move forward and once they're gone, you have to redefine yourself Yet again. I believe that in moving forward from that loss, I know I have redefined myself, but I found a direction. I believe I was really intended to go and that perhaps, if Tom were still with me, I wouldn't have gone. So everyone that we have loved and lost has made a huge impact in our lives and I think it's important that we not forget them. I truly believe in mentioning their names. I love it when I go to a veterans group that my husband was heavily involved in, because no sooner do I walk in the door that I'm surrounded by his friends giving me hugs, mentioning his name, reminding me of stories, reminding me that they too miss him. Yeah, and that has all been a part of not just the grief and helping me heal, but the grief that has become a part of my life and will remain a part of my life until the day I die. So there is a reason for the elephant story and I just think it's beautiful and touching and wanted to make sure I included it.

Speaker 2 32:12

Sadly, jocelyn, our time is winding down, but I want to take this opportunity to turn the microphone over to you and let you speak directly to our listeners around the world and let them know how they can get in touch with you should they want to, and I love how you said it learn some creativity, because that's kind of a concept that's foreign to me. How do you learn to be creative? To me, either you have it or not. But for this time in the podcast, the floor is yours. Go ahead, yeah.

Speaker 3 32:40

May I say a really quick story, absolutely Just as you were saying, absolutely. So I dance five rhythms and I go, and I've been doing it since I was 13. It's something my mom gave me which got me through my teen years and I teach, but I also help set up the registration and I that for one morning I was like you know what? I wanted to invite my ancestors to come and dance with me because I feel like they don't get to enjoy that, you know, when you're an ancestor. So I go to my ancestor altar and I say come join me and dance today. And I'm going, I'm at the dance place taking registration and the first person walks in.

Speaker 3 33:10

She's new. I go what's your name? She goes my name's Diane. I said, oh, that was my mom's name and we just started talking. And then she went to the side and then someone else comes in and I go oh, what's your name? He goes oh, my name's Joe. My parents' names were Joe and Diane and I'm sitting in a room only me and it's me, and to the right diagonal and left diagonal there's Joe and Diane. And I had this moment of like. Just because you said that name, I had this moment. I was like, oh my God, my parents came to dance with me so it's so funny. Just on the name thing as an aside, it was just an awesome experience. Yeah, story, I love that, I love that.

Speaker 3 33:49

But yeah, so you can find me at JocelynBatesnet and I also for people dealing with grief or even just anxiety or depression, any of those things that are off balance in the nervous system. I have Insight. I'm on Insight Timer as Jocelyn Bates and I do free yoga nidras and breath work and stuff, and that's really what's brought me back. So I do have that on Insight Timer for anyone who and the app is free, so it's not like you have to pay for it. Timer for anyone who in the app is free, so it's not like you have to pay for it and just kind of sign up and you can listen and just listen through some of the longer or shorter yoga nidras to help you through.

Speaker 3 34:23

I do offer soul sessions and soul sessions. I work with soul art, akashic records, I do human design, charts and just really looking at. Okay, where do you get curious in your life? Where can I get curious? Where am I feeling the patterns that I can't break? Or where do I have these? Where do I have that grief? How can I begin to honor that? We can even work in that way. So it's really fun and insightful and deep and looking at creativity in a whole new. When I say learn like, when I think of creativity, creativity is the soul's language. We are the only species that actively work with our creativity in that way that can place it outside of ourselves like that right. That's amazing. It's part of how our soul and our higher self speaks to us. So many people are afraid of it. So, yeah, so I do that. And yeah, you can find me at jocelynbatenet.

Speaker 2 35:14

That sounds great and, again, I'm an experiencer, so I'll be poking around and seeing. What might you be able to help me with that I have not yet experienced, and immediately I think of you mentioned yoga nidra.

Speaker 3 35:28

Yoga nidra yeah, it's like guided meditation. It's effortless guided meditation. You get to lay down pillows under your knees, under your neck, under your ankle, close your eyes and listen Okay, and that's it. It's effortless, okay and then balance with you all. You mentioned Insight Timer. That's an app. That's an app. Yeah, it's a free app, and that's where I put some of my free yoga.

Speaker 2 35:49

So at the very least, kathy's going to be experiencing Insight Timer. It will be installed on my phone moments after we finish today and I will be listening later, because that just sounds really nice. I love lying there with my eyes closed and just ignoring someone's voice. That will be one of my new experiences anyway. So for our listeners, please know and I know you've enjoyed the story today and I know for many of you that have COVID horror stories of your own this will really resonate with you and you will understand, you will empathize, you will commiserate with what Jocelyn herself went through.

Discovering Jocelyn Bates

Speaker 2 36:27

If you're looking to just kind of experience something and don't really know what you want to experience, jocelyn has a veritable sorgasbord of areas that you can explore with her. I have recently discovered human design. I'm enthralled by it. I wish I had known about it decades ago and I really use it. I try to use it every day and think about it and apply myself. There are some aspects of it that I wish I could change, because there might be a nice channel out there that I think, oh, I wish I could have that, but I can't. It's not mine to have and I can't accept that. But consider going to JocelynBatesnet checking out what she has to offer. Reach out to her, I guarantee. At the very least you will find yourself connected to someone who is so interesting, so engaging and so supportive. So that's your self-care tip for the week, and I hope that you will return again next time as we all continue to live and grieve. Thanks, jocelyn, for joining me today. Thank you.

Speaker 1 37:34

Thank you so much for listening with us today. Do you have a topic that you'd like us to cover or do you have a question from one of our episodes? Please email us at info at as I live and grieve dot com and let us know. We hope you will find a moment to leave a review, send an email and share with others. Join us next time as we continue to live and grieve together.