Grief Cannot Be Avoided

When Lainne Love, a spiritual psychology coach and author, shares her journey of loss, full of complexities of addiction and homelessness. We unwrap the layers of grief, navigating through the raw truths of emotions. Her candid revelations serve as a guidepost for those adrift in their own sea of sorrow, illuminating the path towards healing with authenticity and grace.

Our conversation transitions seamlessly into the healing powers of honesty and reflection. It uncovers the necessity of confronting even the most uncomfortable emotions head-on, granting them space to breathe and be acknowledged. Sitting with a photograph, as simple as it sounds, is suggested as a profound practice in this chapter, allowing feelings to surface in their own time. It's an invitation to embrace self-compassion and understand that our intricate web of emotions is a natural part of the grieving tapestry. This chapter holds up a mirror to the heart's resilience, encouraging listeners to look within and find the courage to process their pain. Don't miss this episode...

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info@asiliveandgrieve.com
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To Reach Lainne:
Website:  https://www.lainne.com/
Email:  lainne@lainne.com

Credits: 
Music by Kevin MacLeod 

Transcript

Stephanie: 0:01

Welcome to As I Live and Grieve, a podcast that tells the truth about how hard this is. We're glad you joined us today. We know how hard it is to lose someone you love and how well-intentioned friends and family try so hard to comfort us. We created this podcast to provide you with comfort, knowledge and support. We are grief advocates, not professionals, not licensed therapists. We are YOU.

Kathy: 0:26

Good morning everyone. Welcome back again to As I Live and Grieve, and we do go on, don't we, day after day after day, bearing whatever we need to bear for that day, for that week. For me it's a Monday morning. I was just mentioning to my guests that it's kind of a gloomy Monday morning, but for me I almost like starting Mondays gloomy, because then I just anticipate the sunshine to come for the rest of the week. With me today is Lainne Love. Lainne, welcome, and thanks so much for taking the time out of your schedule to join me today.

Lainne: 0:58

Thank you so much for having me, and it's great to have a space to talk about such an important topic.

Kathy: 1:06

I couldn't agree more. And again, what a great way to start out our week and our session today by hearing your story. So let's get right to that. Would you just kind of inform our listeners, tell us who Lainne Love is.

Lainne: 1:22

Well, I am an award-winning spiritual psychology coach and I am also a best-selling author and, most importantly, I am a very proud mama to a little boy and I love being of service and I'm doing the work, the daily, the daily work that we get to do, um, and that is also involved with with grief, which is also involved with challenges and obstacles. No, it's, it's nice to, it's nice to know that, no matter where we are in our life, there, there's always work to do, so that we can always feel like, okay, okay, it's okay, it's just another day, it's another thing, and there's an opportunity for me here to grow.

Kathy: 2:11

I couldn't agree more, and I, you know, I honestly think we weren't put on this earth to just live our lives passively. I truly believe that we are meant to take action, and if we ourselves happen to be in such good shape and you can surround that with air quotes, if you like if we're in such "good shape that we don't need any work and I don't know if there really are any of us that don't need some workers but if that should be the case, then it's time for us to look elsewhere and see who we might be able to help, see who we might be able to support, and that's one of the reasons we're here today. Now, specifically, in our sessions, we primarily talk about grief, and although grief can be, in its most simplistic definition, response to any loss in life, even a toddler and, by the way, the photo of your little one on your website, he is absolutely adorable. Who wouldn't want that child?

Kathy: 3:09

But even a toddler can grieve. They can grieve if their favorite stuffed animal is lost and it's time for bed and they don't have their favorite stuffed animal, they grieve. So grief can take many, many different forms. As we talk, though, about what we experience when we lose someone to death. That, of course, is an extremely devastating form of grief. Now, how can you, with what you've experienced, Lainne, how can you really relate to your clients, to the people you're helping?

Lainne: 3:43

Fortunately, unfortunately, you know, as a human being, the common denominator is absolutely we're all going to experience death. The people around us are going to die, Our loved ones, our pets. We all share that fate. So there's some comfort and discomfort in that and, like many, I have lost several people in my life. I lost my grandparents, all my grandparents, and some friends, and most recently I lost my youngest brother, my younger brother to an overdose and that is a.. I'm experiencing that grief as a very different kind of grief, Absolutely.

Kathy: 4:30

Absolutely. Yeah, you know grief for us. You can experience the loss not only of your sibling, but in the details of that loss, so to speak, because you also feel the loss from, perhaps, his perspective, what he himself has lost and the things that he won't experience, and we've talked about in our podcast too. Not only have you lost your sibling, but as the days come on and as your son grows, you will be reminded at different points in time that your brother, your son's uncle, is not here to experience this. So that is another type of dealing with that same grief, but just in different perspectives as well. So what techniques do you use, then, to help people?

Lainne: 5:18

Well, there are a lot of different techniques, and the most important one is actually sitting, being with your grief and examining it and just noticing what's there for you, for instance, the passing of my brother. I noticed that there's a lot of ego in it for me as you're just saying.

Lainne: 5:41

It's noticing things about me like what, what I didn't do, what I should have done, okay, how? As my, my younger brother, was also on the street for um, almost 20 years is that right? Let's say 15, a long time anyway. Um, he was experiencing homelessness for pretty much all of his adult life and addiction, and there was so many things to unpack there. But also, you know, my siblings and I are also a product of the home in which we grew up in Sure, which was not the best home. Sure, my mom certainly did her best. She was a single parent and it wasn't perhaps the best home. Sure, my mom certainly did her best. She was a single parent who didn't come from the best upbringing herself, and she became a teenage mom, and so I recognize that she did not have the tools that she needed to be a successful parent, and I'm really proud of her for a lot of the wonderful things that she did do, like finishing high school and going on to then becoming a nurse, going to college and working and having four kids. So there's positives there.

Lainne: 6:53

But in my brother's passing there's also that examining of like how broken my family is, and that's another form of grief for me is that I have stepped away from my family. I focus on doing the work and I'm interested in being surrounded by people who are also looking at themselves and have the willingness to take responsibility for their actions and invest in how they can be better. You know, I really want to choose healthy and I definitely want to create a different legacy within my family life. So my brother's passing brought up so many different layers of reflecting on our lives as a family and then myself, how I didn't show up, as I said for my brother, and even let's get really honest, because that's the point of this conversation my level of uncomfortability of being around him and how I was closed off because there was a level of disgust, is probably the right word, of him being on the street and his addiction and not understanding that. And I got to really look at that like how could I have shown up differently? Or could I have shown up differently and what would that have looked like?

Lainne: 8:12

And also looking at our level of responsibility. We always say to each other you know well, we're not responsible for somebody else and we can't make anybody do things and everybody is on their own journey. Those are things that I'm sure everyone's often heard, and those things are true. And what also is true, I think, things can be true at the same time. Two things can be true, even though they seem contradictory, is that we also do have a responsibility to each other, and I am navigating that right now, that dynamic. What is my responsibility at the end of the day? Because I do have one. And to pretend like I don't, to pretend that we don't as humans with each other on this experience, to say that we don't have a responsibility to each other, that we don't have a responsibility to the person that we walk by on the street or the person that's struggling and needs some help? We do, we do have that. So figuring out how to navigate that fine line is where I find myself right now.

Kathy: 9:12

You have said so much with your words. First of all, I want to thank you for being so candid and for allowing yourself to be so vulnerable. Sometimes in those conversations when it involves suicide, when it involves substance abuse and those issues such as homelessness and just kind of an aimless lifestyle, and when someone who is involved in that, whether as a sibling or as a parent, it's far easier to just kind of set that entire issue aside. Just to set it aside and talk about maybe well, this happened, but you don't get into that. So thank you, Lainne, for being so vulnerable. I know that in my heart, that that is really going to resonate with some of our listeners who themselves are feeling that they can't talk about that, that they can't bring that up. It's important, however, I think and you can respond to this part too that they do, because until or unless they do, they will not be as successful in healing themselves from this, because those are all very real issues that play a part in their own personal healing. Is that correct?

Lainne: 10:31

Yes, yeah, and as you say that, I'm reminded of your question that led me to that, and my answer was really about like sitting with your feelings and like feeling them. So I got to sit with what's the truth here? Of course I'm sad. And why am I sad? Am I sad? I'm sad, of course, for the loss of my brother, and I'm in many different ways again, like the loss of him in that I haven't really had him as a brother for years and years and years and years, right, and I won't ever have that. And then my son, my son didn't really know him. He's met him, he didn't really remember meeting him and for the hope that I had for his future and his life. And then, looking at those feelings that I just mentioned of, well, I didn't hug him, I didn't say I love you enough, I didn't. And why? Because I was honest with myself.

Lainne: 11:31

And those feelings of a little like repulsion or rejection or disgust, of the state of in which he was, and it's really helpful for my healing to look at that and be honest with myself, right, right, because if why we don't heal is because we're not honest with ourselves and we push our feelings down because we shouldn't have them, like that's a really unpleasant thing for me to say about somebody at all, but another human being, let alone my brother, who I love, and yet it's the truth. And so how can I move forward is by telling myself the truth, by sitting those feelings and forgiving myself and forgiving him and forgiving God, if you so choose, to believe in one of the circumstances in which I found myself, or the circumstances in which my family is in and my brother was in. Looking at all of that really, really honestly and not repressing your feelings, feeling it, even though it feels really uncomfortable. It's uncomfortable for me to say the things that I've said, and yet it's important because it's true.

Lainne: 12:47

And the more that we can practice speaking the truth to ourselves and with each other, I think, the quicker and the greater our opportunity for healing.

Kathy: 12:56

Sure, and in instances like this, well, let me approach it from a different aspect. For me personally, someone could come up to me and mention, for example, that oh, I'm so sorry you lost your husband and I could talk quite comfortably about my husband because there were none of those issues that caused me to feel any of the emotions that you're feeling, as with the case of your sibling, with your brother. So that in itself adds a layer that you can't talk as freely about this because you are very guarded. You don't want to be that vulnerable to most people that you come up with. So it makes it very difficult in situations like this to start. So when you consider about starting and telling yourself the truth and, as you say, there are so many factors that came into it I mean, you brought your mother in, your brother, his lifestyle, your feelings, everything like that Does it matter really where you start with a truth when you're trying to deal like that?

Lainne: 14:02

Well, I don't think it matters, like what the inception point is, like what's that first opportunity for starting to tell yourself the truth, but I think it matters that you continue to do that. So, as I was looking at it at first, my response was, of course, a deep sadness, but relief, like relief for him. Thank God, he is not suffering anymore. Thank God, oh my God, I am so grateful that he's not suffering anymore and it wasn't a big surprise and I thought really that was it. And then I started to just sit with it a little bit more Again, going back to what I just said, like about we just are in the practice of not acknowledging our feelings or even naming them.

Lainne: 14:47

And I sat with his picture and I talked to him and that's when I really started to notice like all of the other things that were underneath that. And I think it also unfolds in time, like it didn't all happen on the day that I found out. It's happened like weeks pass and then something will come up and then, you know, a couple of days will pass and something else will come up, and it's still coming up. I mean, it hasn't been. It's pretty new still.

Lainne: 15:14

It's only about just over two months ago, me to be able to show up and still do life and function and to notice when I need to take a break and to try to have more compassion for myself in knowing that sometimes I'm going to move slower. I agree.

Kathy: 15:39

I love what you mentioned about sitting with a picture of your brother and kind of going through those things in your mind and I kind of love that for me as a starting point, because sometimes if you just sit and you have your eyes closed, for example, you're just sitting, sometimes it's difficult to get yourself going, I guess. But certainly if you're looking at a picture and you're looking at his face, it's easier to just let your mind start wandering at that point and I think that it's got to be a great therapeutic start for healing.

Lainne: 16:14

And notice where you go with that. So that is a good way to start to allow the emotions to come up, right. Your next step is okay, as you're sitting there with the picture, what starts to come up. What you're probably going to notice is a lot of them. Are I, I this, I that, I this which is great because, of course, it's your life and you're having this experience and notice what's there, notice what's there.

Lainne: 16:39

I miss you, I am sorry, I am angry, I don't understand, I don't feel like I can go on. Why? So notice all the statements or the questions that are coming up for you and then start to unpack that. Start to unpack that, because how we get stuck in something is grief, is one of those very empowering emotions in which it's easy to get stuck. But we don't want you to get stuck. We want you to keep moving and to keep healing so that you can continue to live your best life and therefore, in my opinion, honor whoever it is that you've lost by continuing to remember them and celebrate them as you continue to live the best life possible for you. So we don't want to get stuck in our grief.

Lainne: 17:28

We certainly want to feel it and we want to honor it and we want to see what's there. But just start to notice what all of those feeling statements, all those I statements are for you. Maybe write them down.

Kathy: 17:39

I was just going to ask. You thought it would be helpful to write them down.

Lainne: 17:44

Yeah, you can also record yourself if that's easier. If you just want to be, you could just put your phone on record while you're sitting with your picture and just let yourself notice what's coming up for you, so that you can see what the habit of stuck emotions are for you or where you keep ruminating, and that's going to tell you a lot about your next steps for healing.

Kathy: 18:07

All right, and what might those steps be? What were your next steps for healing?

Lainne: 18:17

Honestly, healing is pretty simple, in that it's just feeling your feelings and not getting stuck in it. So that's the first step and it seems like it's a simple step, but it's actually really challenging because we've all practiced not feeling our feelings for so long, dismissing them and pushing them down, that often we can't even name what those feelings are. And that's why the first thing to sit with it, notice what's your internal dialogue as you're missing this person, notice it, pay attention. Then start to feel those feelings and let yourself feel them so that you can release them, because the heaviness, the stuckness, the reason why we keep going back, is because we haven't completed the cycle. We need to feel the feeling. That's why the feeling is there, so that we can begin the feeling and complete the feeling, so that we can let it go. We see animals do this. You know if you have dogs or cats like, they'll be really angry with each other and they'll fight and move their body and get it out and then they walk away from each other and everything is peace again. You can actually feel that tension has been released, because they felt it to completion. It might have looked really uncomfortable and ugly to us and then it was complete and it's the same thing for us.

Lainne: 19:27

Your feelings is just feedback. This particular incident is resonating with me in this way and it's bringing up this feeling. And you're meant to feel the feeling, but not get lost in it, just to feel it, to let it go. And that's the art is learning how do I feel the feeling and not get stuck in it. If you're stuck in it, then you're not. You're not completing the cycle. Okay, you're staying. Keep energizing that feeling of like maybe it's loss, like and I'm never going to be able to move on again. If we keep energizing that, then we're going to stay there rather than I'm never going to be able to move on again. What's behind that? Okay, disappointment, not wanting to, because we maybe we feel like we're betraying the person in some way, like there's always things behind the initial emotion and those are the things that we. That's. The second step is getting to what's behind that and as you begin to practice that, you're going to be feeling lighter and lighter and it's okay.

Lainne: 20:24

I know it's uncomfortable, I know it's even scary sometimes, and you are a human being that was designed to have and feel and experience emotions, so you're going to be okay. You were designed to feel these things. Yeah, you can feel them. You can feel them and you can let them go, yeah, yeah, and that's where I do recommend also working with somebody.

Kathy: 20:46

I was just going to ask you that. You know, sometimes it's very difficult for us to be honest with ourselves because, let's face it, if it's just me and I'm talking to myself or thinking to myself, sometimes it's really easy to cheat myself. Yeah, and it's also really it's done. Admit the truth to myself. I'll just gloss over it and easily accept that for myself because I want to take the easy way out. So as you go through and you start, you allow your and I love that you used the word ego even all of the I's in there, all of the things I'm feeling and the reasons I'm mad, the reason I'm frustrated, the reason I'm upset about this, everything that it's doing to me. It's changing my life. If I can go through and really just kind of voice those, either verbally to myself, with no one around listening, or write them down or everything, and then if I can go back and kind of examine each one of those again in a little more depth. Now, someone had mentioned to me and I've tried this with myself it only works to a certain point and then I admit I cheat again, I take the easy way out.

Kathy: 21:57

I think it's really uncomfortable, but if every time you are trying to get to an answer, you ask yourself why do I feel that way? So like I'm upset that this happened. Well, why do you feel that way? And you answer that, but you never accept that answer. You always go for the next. But why do you feel that? Why do you feel that? And you don't stop until there are no more answers? That's when you reach the truth. Yes, but again we cheat. When it starts to get ugly, we say, okay, I'm done for today, I've got to. You know, I've got to go take a shower, I've got to wash the dishes. All the things that you don't really want to do suddenly take priority. So that's one of the reasons that sometimes it's a good idea, if you want to work through this in a more logical, efficient and successful manner, that you might seek out someone to help you.

Lainne: 22:51

Yes, and I just want to celebrate you for a second and say that that's wonderful. You know, even just getting to that, the state, when you get to the state of being able to acknowledge, when you know that you're cheating yourself, that's a really empowered state to be in. So, although we're noticing I'm not exactly where I want to be, that's a very, very great place to be in. That shows that you are willing to be honest with yourself and you notice that you are having challenges to be able to do that.

Lainne: 23:22

And so then you know what the next step is. Is okay, I noticed that I cheat myself at this point. Yeah, Great, Then I can work with somebody that will help me to get past that next door, which is really, really great.

Kathy: 23:38

Right, well, thank you. You know, and I know I can sense when I'm getting to that point, because you know I'll start my head will start to itch and I'll start to get breathless and, as I say, all of those things I hate washing dishes, but all of those things suddenly become a little more fun. I really have to do these. So it took a while to get to that point, but now that I see it, I do try to push those limits and I do try to get to it a little bit more.

Kathy: 24:05

There are so many options out there when it comes to who do you look for and I had a similar conversation with another guest so there are therapists, there are clinicians, there are coaches. There are such a variety. Can you help us maybe identify some of the different types and who you might go to? If, what you're doing, you recognize that you need help, you recognize that you are kind of stuck at this point, that you've admitted the truth to yourself, you know your feelings, you're working on accepting your feelings, but, gosh, how do you let them go? And I think that's really where someone can.

Lainne: 24:44

Well, the great news is is that everything works, so you're I don't think I know that you're in good hands. Wherever it is that you're going to go, the nuance is figuring out like what is the best thing for you at this particular stage in your development and your healing, and so I like to use the analogy of a toolbox. Like, every tool in the toolbox works, but when I need a hammer, I'm not going. Now that doesn't mean that a screwdriver doesn't work or a hammer doesn't work they absolutely work, but they work for specific tasks and functions. It's the same thing on your healing journey and this is where it requires some commitment and effort on your part is you're going to look for, and you're going to try out, different people and see if they're a good fit for you and try this particular therapy.

Lainne: 25:37

Okay, a lot of people try one thing and say, oh, it doesn't work. Healing doesn't work, therapy doesn't work. No, it works. It's just that wasn't the right tool for you at the right time. So try a different tool because there are so many, and okay then? Well, that's overwhelming. There's way too many choices. So, to begin with, I think really the best place to start is working on your programming, your subconscious programming.

Kathy: 26:03

And why?

Lainne: 26:04

Well, that's the thing that is setting the tone for how it is that you are dealing with the grief that you're experiencing right now. So why is this person able to experience grief? And they can get up in the morning and still do some things, and they can talk about their feelings and they can do all of these things, and this, the person next to them is. You know, let's just say it's the same scenario, even though it's never the same, but we'll say it's the same scenario for the sake of the example. You know, they can't get out of bed, they can't function, they're losing their job. That goes down to like the tools that they were giving and the programming that they have. That's what's actually running, what it is that we're doing every single day.

Lainne: 26:46

So if you begin with working on your subconscious programming and looking at where it is that you have gotten your beliefs and habits and the lens in which you see the world and the lens in which you meet challenges and how it is that you think that you can solve those or provide yourself some solutions or relief, that comes down to that programming. So in that realm you have so many different things. You have hypnotherapy, you have rapid transformational therapy. You have cognitive behavioral therapy, you have neuro-linguistic programming. You have a couple of different options there. That that's what I would start with, and then you can move into, or you can also start with, a modality in which you're focusing on actually feeling your feelings. So you can do EMDR and you can do EFT tapping so that helps to free feelings that are in your body and allow them to be unstuck, so that you can move past that and get to that next layer of healing.

Kathy: 27:47

Okay, Now, if you connect with someone and let me also say that in the general community of therapists, clinicians, coaches, etc. The majority of them offer some type of initial free get-to-know-me consultation type thing, whether it's a 10-minute phone call, a 30-minute phone call. Some are very generous and offer a one-hour session. So I would strongly encourage listeners that feel that they might want to seek help, and that in itself kudos. If you have arrived at that point, kudos to you, because this will make a huge difference in your progress.

Kathy: 28:27

Look for people that do offer that opportunity and start out by saying to yourself I am going to talk to three different people or five different people or whatever you want. Don't just talk to one, because you will find that they each have different personalities, they each offer different modalities, and if you're fortunate enough to find someone who offers multiple modalities, then you have just kind of afforded yourself the opportunity to have so many options for treatment, whereas if you find someone who is limited to just one modality, that's great, but if it doesn't work for you, then you start the process all over again. So be somewhat methodical, I guess I'm suggesting, in your choices and make sure that you are able to with that you feel you can bare your soul to. Because, let's face it, if you cheat yourself, they're not going to let you get away with that, and they shouldn't let you get away with that, because that's the part. When you get to that part where it's really really uncomfortable for you, that is where your healing really begins. Is that a fair statement?

Lainne: 29:59

Yes, yes it is. It's keep trying. I know that we can get in that, but I want it to be easy. Or it's hard, or we feel sorry for ourselves and don't let those things stop you from getting the healing that you need. And absolutely, yeah, you know, reach out to a few different people, as you mentioned, and just find the right one for you and just start. And maybe you're like I just can't.

Lainne: 30:24

I can phone one person great, phone one person and do one session, but like and if it, and give it more than one session, I would say give everything at least three sessions to figure out whether or not you're you like that person and you like the work that they're doing, because you know you're not going to get any results from going to the gym one time. Right, it's the same thing with therapy, the same thing with trying to heal something that's happening internally. It takes a lot of time. It's actually a lifestyle, it's something that you continue to invest in, continue to grow. But when we're looking at something more acute like this, this particular trauma that I'm experiencing right now, yeah, give somebody, give them three sessions to figure out whether or not it works with you or for you If it's not the right fit, great. Continue to look. Don't give into that as an excuse or reason as to why you're not going to heal through this challenging time.

Kathy: 31:22

Right. But I would almost guarantee, yeah, don't give up on yourself, that's the important part but I would almost guarantee that in those three sessions, even if you decided at that point that it really wasn't a good fit and that's kind of my catch-all phrase it's not that maybe it didn't work, because probably something worked. It may not have worked enough or as quickly as you had hoped or in the fashion you had hoped, but something worked. I'm sure you had benefited in some way in those three sessions. But don't give up on yourself and just keep pushing, because heaven knows, you're worth it.

Kathy: 31:58

Yeah, you're worth it. Invest in yourself. And don't forget also that, even though going to a lot of these clinicians might not be the traditional health care process where your doctor refers you to someone so that your insurance will cover it connect with your insurance company, if you have one. It's very possible that, even if that clinician doesn't accept or doesn't seek reimbursement from insurance companies, that you may be able to submit your receipts to your insurance company and get reimbursed yourself. So don't forget about that a lso, if the financial aspect is of concern to you.

Lainne: 32:39

Now, and don't let that be the barrier either. Absolutely, because a lot of people use that as the excuse oh well, my insurance doesn't cover it, so therefore I can't do it. Yes, you can, you can figure it out. You can figure it out. Most people can anyway. Sometimes people can't, but it's actually rare that people can't. You can figure it out. Don't let yourself, don't let excuses be the thing that are ruling and running which direction your life goes into and whether or not you get healing. You can find a way. You can find the resources if you find the right person, and that's not how they operate or it's not within the umbrella. Do not let that be the excuse. I have never had insurance in my life.

Lainne: 33:20

I've never used it and I have spent over six figures in my own healing and recovery and development, so you can do it, you're worth every penny.

Kathy: 33:31

And again, I also find that the personality of people that go into this line of work, into this particular field, are very generous and often, if you say to them, I'm really having a little problem with finances, sometimes you can work things out. So don't be afraid to ask, because often they will accept payments, they'll work something out with you. So don't be afraid to ask, because, in truth, they are in that line of work because they want to help you. They're not in that line of work to get rich because, let me tell you something, they're not going to get rich. They're not going to get rich. They are not the pharmaceutical companies. They are there to help you. Well, sad to say, Lainne, that our time is winding down, so I do want to take the opportunity I'm going to turn the microphone over to you and let you speak directly to our listeners and tell them how they can reach out to you. If they would like to speak to you more about getting some help, go ahead.

Lainne: 34:31

I am really, really lucky. It's really easy to get in touch with me. My name is Lainey and my website is Lainey, Lainne. com Super easy. And I'm Lainne Love on social media. That's, on LinkedIn, on Facebook, on Instagram. You can find me in those places and you can find my books, my beautiful books, on Amazon. The latest one is called A Bigger Mission and that is filled with stories of people who have experienced traumatic incidences in their lives, from addiction to death, to violence, abuse, and how it is that they overcame those circumstances in their lives. So it is a co-written book. There are 12 authors all together, me being one of them, and we all share a story and how we overcame it. So I know I find a lot of inspiration from that when I'm having moments of struggling. Also is looking for other people that have experienced something similar and how they came out on the other side. I love books and I love podcasts. I think that they're amazing tools for being able to connect to that human experience and know that there's hope on the other side.

Kathy: 35:44

I couldn't agree more. So check out her books, check out her website, reach out to Lainne. You won't be sorry. She has such a gentle personality and I have truly, truly enjoyed our last half hour or so just talking, and I know that there are thousands and thousands of people out there that are struggling with this issue about do I need help? Would it help me to get help? The answer is probably yes, so give it a try. We talk about self-care, and this is probably the number one way that you can practice self-care is to get some help if you're stuck. And remember what I said. I know that you cheat yourself too, just like I do, because it's human nature. So if you reach out and get some help, you will be better for it and I'm going to say it again, y'all are worth it. So join me again next week, next episode, as we all continue to live and grieve. Lainne, thank you so much.

Lainne: 36:46

Thank you so much.

Stephanie: 36:49

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