The Hard Truths of Return Of The Sleepwalker

In this week’s podcast, join Lattice Training coach, Josh Hadley, as he is joined by pro climber, Nate Williams, who has been projecting ‘Return of the Sleepwalker’ (V17/9A) in Las Vegas, USA, which recently saw its second ascent, by Will Bosi in February 2024. Nate’s been working on this well-known climb for over 2 seasons, since sending the stand-start version ‘Sleepwalker’ (V16/8C+) back in December 2020. In this episode, we delve into Nate's climbing journey, understanding the intricacies of this famous V17/9A boulder problem and how this recent ascent changes what he will do next.

Nate discusses his past, growing up and being mentored by Jimmy Webb, his conversations with Daniel Woods discussing a new boulder that later became Sleepwalker, and how he went from competing nationally to being a fully outdoors climber. Josh delves into his remarkable journey and learns what it takes to project at your limit and unlock new potential.

Other topics include:

• Who is Nathan Williams?
• How Jimmy Webb influenced Nate’s style of climbing
• The commitment to the process of projecting and how what to think about when choosing a boulder at your limit
• Differences between the stand (Sleepwalker, V16/8C+) and the sit (Return of the Sleepwalker V17/9A)
• How to  build friction and how holds differ in their texture
• Supporting Will Bosi with his recent ascent and differences in their approach
• What is next for Nate after ROTS?

And much more!

Tune in for this captivating episode as we discuss the ripple effect of Will Bosi's recent ascent of "Return of the Sleepwalker" and its implications for Nate's own journey. 

The Lattice jingle is brought to you by Devin Dabney, music producer of the outdoor industry who also hosts the American Climbing Project.

Transcript

josh (00:17)
Hello and welcome to the Lattice Training podcast. Today we are chatting to Nate Williams. Nate is currently in Vegas trying return of the Sleepwalker. This was a boulder problem, a V17 put up by Daniel Woods and he's been projecting this boulder for, I suppose, a couple of years now. It was back in 2021 when he did the stand Sleepwalker and has now been putting in time and getting really close actually

sending the sit start. So we're going to talk a lot about the difficulties of this boulder a little bit about his training for it. And also, interestingly, Nate's kind of introduction to climbing was quite a cool one. It was a very steep learning curve, and had a little bit of inspiration and mentorship by Jimmy Webb. So yeah, it's really cool to get into his past as well. Yeah, let's get into

So, Nate, let me just set the scene quickly. You're in Vegas right now.

and you're projecting return of the sleepwalker.

nice and actually you've got some good weather so we're currently I think also maybe to set the time frame you're projecting this with Will Bozey who's putting in some sessions together on Return of Sleepwalker and so that's kind of what we're talking about today we're going to dive into this boulder in particular but I thought it would be good to start at the beginning and just ask like how long you've been climbing how you got into climbing

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

this really early into your climbing as well? Like just a few years in?

Oh wow, okay. Right in the deep end.

Okay, yeah.

Cool, okay.

Wow, and that was Rocklands as well.

Okay, cool. That's an amazing entry to climbing. Like firstly, that you kind of get hooked obviously, which I think a lot of people relate to. It definitely took me a little bit longer to like wanna do it every single day. That's cool. And so Jimmy Webb was a bit of a mentor. That's obviously maybe more of an outdoor climbing scene. Is that what drew you into Rockland's trips and things?

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah, I feel like you get a lot of good climbers come out of these gyms which are not flashy at all. They kind of just put you in the... Maybe it's a certain mindset you have in those gyms that when you go there, you're there to train almost. Not to have fun, as it were. Yeah. Nice. Do you still compete today? And is that something you've stepped away from?

what the standard is today. Yeah. So would you say your motivations are now more for outdoor climbing or is it about the projects which have pulled you away? Like is it your time?

Yeah, okay. It's the projecting then, isn't it? It's like putting in an extended period of time and something. Yeah, for sure. So that would kind of like brings us onto Sleepwalker, or at least the SIT, which is what you're working on now. But you sent Sleepwalker, is it last year? So when did you come across this as a boulder?

Okay.

What?

So you saw pictures of it when Daniel was just conceiving of this as a boulder. Does that mean you were trying it before Daniel had sent it as well?

Okay.

Okay, yeah.

So what is it about a sleepwalker that keeps you going back? Because you've been, I suppose, trying it for a full two seasons now.

Right. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, yeah.

It sounds like you found something that's properly at your limit then. I remember having a conversation with Johnny Kidd, one of the coaches here. And he, he basically says, at least this is his perception of it is that it's not a true project unless you've had backwards progress. So you've had a session where you basically did worse on it. It sounds like you've definitely, you've had, if the beginning is very linear, you're now in that backwards progress phase.

which is cool. So that sounds like you're truly finding your limit on this. What was the process with doing the stand start then? Was that a different process?

wow, okay.

Yeah.

Can you break down how the... Because it's kind of a bold of two halves now, isn't it? At least, we'll include the sit into it. Can you break down how the two fit together and kind of the difficulty of those two halves for you as well?

but this is worth well sending the stand.

Mmm.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, I suppose that brings friction into play a lot as well. Like there's a lot of moves and you definitely can't chalk up. Ha ha.

Yeah, so I suppose it's not only that you're going to be really tired, but you also have climbed several moves and not had a chance to chalk up. So friction's pretty poor on that then.

Okay, so is this something you can influence? Have you got any? Yeah, no, I like it, I like it. But you can't chalk up. How are you trying to work this in?

Have you struggled with conditions? Like over the... Yeah, no, it's cool.

Okay, yep. Not ideal.

so you're kind of like talking about building friction or friction control and both of you have similar skin conditions in that sense. But what's quite cool is you're out there with Will right now working on it. Are you guys sharing a lot of the beta on the movement? Is there anything you've learned from each other?

Have you tried it his way? And like, because you said it is you have to have quite mobile risks for it.

Yeah, I've actually, speaking to T, he's out there as well with you at the minute. And she was saying you're looking really close in it. Where are you up to now? What's your high point on the boulder?

Pass the sloper.

Oh, as in you're past the sloper. This is kind of the last... or the red point crux. Okay, yeah.

Yeah, is it fair to say that there's like every move after the sloper is then also the next red point cracks?

Yeah. Have you, have you?

Yeah. Have you done any training specifically for return to sleep walk? Because I know you're working with Billy at the minute as well.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, so it's all about the power endurance for this boulder now. Because how many, how many moves is it in total?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely unrelenting.

Yeah, yeah. So, on the form of training, can you give us, like, what's your favourite training exercise? Or like one thing you think everyone should be trying?

Yeah, that's fair.

Okay, yeah, so you think there's what value in progressing from just like a jug to a large edge Just like working on those one arm hangs that kind of coordination between the fingers and the shoulder Yeah, okay There you go hot take So I wanted to ask about motivations outside of Sleepwalker is there anything else you've got your eyes set on are you absolutely all in on this one?

Yeah, okay. I guess the world's been getting you psyched on it.

Yeah, I think the take on, I suppose, both these projects are that like, although I think you're having trouble with conditions, makes a lot of sense for Sloper, but like, you're still in the desert and apart from maybe the last couple of weeks, like it doesn't rain that much, conditions are quite stable. All the holds are quite skin friendly. Like you can have it, you can have a good session on it, can't you, without tearing through a tip or something after like two moves.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. What's your plan now for the rest of the season?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay, what's the climbing season in Vegas in Red Rocks? Like I said, good time.

Okay.

Yeah. Oh man, I'm so jealous. They're jealous of good conditions.

Cool. All right, I think maybe there's a good place to wrap up for now. I know it's been quite a short chat, but I think maybe we'll catch up at some point when we'll talk about the send.

Yeah, no, it's okay. Yeah, got to go home. Wife's got baby at home. And I said I'd be home for a second. Cool. But, thank you so much for coming on again, Nate. I know you've had our difficulties, but yeah, it's been really good to get you back on.

That's okay. Hopefully the audio is okay. The whole point of Riverside is it should download your speech to the laptop and not from the stream. So it should upload after you've done this. So although there's been like lag on my end, hopefully that's not showing up in the recording.

I was going to say it might be cool. I don't know how it will work, but we could do like a freeway podcast while he's still out there. We could all kind of like chat through climbing and things. That might be quite cool.

Yeah. Okay. Maybe I'll reach out to Will, see if he wants to just have a catch up one evening. We can chat bouldering chat projects. Cool.

Nice one. thank you again for coming on and I'll be in touch.