Listen to our guest speakers from Texas RioGrande Legal Aid discuss the various legal issues that affect a family after a disaster. Also in this Podcast: How to spot Domestic Violence and how to help your client.
Guest Speakers: Maricarmen Garza Coordinator for the Victim’s Rights Group and Amber VanSchuyver Deputy Coordinator of the Domestic Violence and Family Law Group.
Visit our website at https://texasdisasterlegalhelp.org/
Music Credit: Track: Travel With Us — Vendredi [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: https://youtu.be/o-rpKzt4KSYFree Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/travel-us
Listen to our guest speakers from Texas RioGrande Legal Aid discuss the various legal issues that affect a family after a disaster. Also in this Podcast: How to spot Domestic Violence and how to help your client.
Guest Speakers: Maricarmen Garza Coordinator for the Victim’s Rights Group and Amber VanSchuyver Deputy Coordinator of the Domestic Violence and Family Law Group.
Visit our website at https://texasdisasterlegalhelp.org/
Music Credit: Track: Travel With Us — Vendredi [Audio Library Release] Music provided by Audio Library Plus Watch: https://youtu.be/o-rpKzt4KSYFree Download / Stream: https://alplus.io/travel-us
Disaster and Their Effect on the Family
Speakers:
Maricarmen Garza (Texas RioGrande Legal Aid)
Amber Van Schuyver (Texas RioGrande Legal Aid)
(Recorded October 29, 2020)
0:00
there we go hello folks uh this is Pablo
00:03
Almaguer the director of the private bar and
00:05
government relations at texas rio grande
00:06
legal aid here with another podcast
00:08
episode in our series that we're doing
00:09
for the texas
00:11
disaster uh legal help website excuse me
00:14
even that pronunciation is hard for me
00:15
right now i haven't had enough coffee
00:17
uh this morning and i won't say coffee
00:20
once again for stuart's purposes
00:21
he'll tell you what happened later on in
00:23
his place
00:24
but uh we have another great episode
00:26
here a couple of folks talking about
00:27
family law
00:28
issues during the disaster recovery and
00:29
disaster um when the session does hit
00:32
but before we do that let me just go
00:34
ahead and remind you all this this
00:35
project
00:36
is or this podcast is part of a project
00:38
that we list them up at
00:42
texasdisasterlegalhelp.simplejustice.org
00:43
that website has many resources for pro
00:45
bono even the audience also the
00:47
non-lawyers you know about disaster
00:48
assistance but this project itself let
00:50
me tell you what it's about before i go
00:51
into introducing my co-host
00:53
uh we are a coordinator project between
00:55
legal aid of northwest texas lone star
00:56
legal aid
00:57
and texas rio grande legal aid aimed
00:59
at improving access to justice for those
01:00
affected by disasters
01:02
our project allows both disaster
01:04
survivors and pro bono attorneys to
01:05
access critical resources in one place
01:07
while at the same time making it easier
01:09
to connect disaster survivors needing
01:10
legal help and volunteer
01:12
attorneys willing to provide it in this
01:13
way the project team hopes to increase
01:15
the number of disaster survivor clients
01:17
who receive high quality legal
01:18
assistance as they continue to navigate
01:20
the recovery process
01:21
after a disaster and provide the support
01:23
and mentorship for pro bono attorneys
01:26
that what they might need to achieve
01:27
that success so it's a dual purpose here
01:30
and we're going to add to those
01:31
resources here by having a great
01:33
discussion with the two speakers and to
01:34
introduce them are my co-host
01:36
belinda martinez from lone star legal
01:38
aid and stuart campbell from
01:40
legal aid of northwest texas so take it
01:42
away belinda
01:44
thank you pablo today's podcast is all
01:46
about disasters and their effect on
01:48
families
01:49
with us today are maricarmen garza and
01:51
amber van schuyver
01:53
maricarmen started her legal career
01:55
as a staff attorney for catholic
01:57
charities in houston
01:58
representing clients in removal
01:59
proceedings VAWA self petitions
02:02
political asylum cases
02:04
etc she is now the group coordinator for
02:06
the texas rio grande legal aids victims
02:08
rights group
02:09
and the director of trla's legal
02:11
alliance for survivors of abuse or the
02:13
lasa project maricarmen was appointed
02:15
to serve on the aba commission on
02:17
domestic and sexual violence and is a
02:19
member of the public policy committee
02:21
for the texas council on family violence
02:23
and currently serves on the boards of
02:25
the texas council of family violence and
02:27
the texas association against sexual
02:29
assault
02:30
amber is an attorney and the deputy
02:32
group coordinator of the domestic
02:33
violence and family law practice area at
02:35
the texas rio grande legal aid
02:37
she received her bachelor's of arts in
02:39
latin american studies political science
02:41
and spanish from the university of
02:42
kansas
02:43
and her doctorate jurisprudence from the
02:45
university of texas thank you for
02:47
joining us guys
02:50
you for having us
02:53
okay first question very broad question
02:55
but let's go ahead and dive on into the
02:56
subject
02:58
what effect do we see on families when
02:59
disasters occur
03:02
well um belinda obviously
03:05
um everyone's impacted anytime there's a
03:08
disaster
03:09
uh but these um effects uh really
03:13
take a toll on families especially any
03:16
family that may be also experiencing
03:18
family violence
03:19
um as you know people in any disaster
03:23
are often
03:24
faced with the option of sheltering in
03:27
place
03:28
or evacuating their home to go into a
03:30
shelter
03:31
also with their abuser so many uh
03:34
impacts occur uh to a family in general
03:37
um as they navigate you know what to do
03:40
in the aftermath of a
03:41
disaster but for those individuals who
03:44
are also experiencing domestic
03:46
violence the issues just get exacerbated
03:49
um the texas council on family violence
03:52
after harvey hurricane harvey did a
03:54
study
03:55
to to really understand what the impact
03:57
was not only
03:58
to the victims of domestic violence but
04:01
also to the systems who support them
04:03
and that study was really informative
04:05
into
04:06
you know just how everybody gets
04:09
impacted right
04:10
um not only family is going to be
04:13
experiencing
04:14
so many much more turmoil and and
04:17
stressors you know economic and
04:19
otherwise but
04:21
um the systems that are set up to
04:22
support them in case of a domestic
04:25
violence they might go into shelter but
04:26
the shelters might also be
04:28
impacted by the disaster during harvey
04:30
there were several shelters
04:31
that were also um flooded or had other
04:34
issues or their workers themselves
04:36
had to be evacuated and displaced so
04:39
um really understanding and being
04:41
prepared is something that
04:43
the basis of this study is and i believe
04:45
that we're going to be sharing
04:47
um that study with anybody who who wants
04:50
it who's participating because it does
04:52
elevate the areas that are of impact for
04:55
most families but especially for the
04:57
work that we do amber and i
04:59
work on the family law team for texas
05:03
rio grande
05:03
legal aid and we do notice that
05:06
individuals who are also experiencing
05:08
domestic violence
05:09
have a much harder time after
05:12
disaster strikes we have noticed
05:16
that the number of incidents of violence
05:18
continues to escalate
05:20
just highly after any in
05:24
any kind of disaster the numbers that we
05:26
get not only to the shelters that we
05:28
work with but to our caller
05:30
intake lines just also um multiply i
05:33
mean i think
05:34
right after covid we saw like
05:36
immediately like a 30%
05:37
spike of calls that we were receiving
05:40
and not only were we getting more calls
05:42
requesting um assistance for individuals
05:45
who were
05:46
also simultaneously experiencing
05:48
domestic violence but that
05:50
violence was much more severe than
05:52
before
05:54
and just to add to what maricarmen
05:56
was saying right we know
05:57
i mean disasters they cause economic
06:00
instability
06:01
right and they further isolate
06:04
families right from their support
06:06
networks and also from as maricarmen
06:08
mentioned services much needed services
06:10
and
06:11
these effects can be filled felt on
06:13
families across the board
06:15
if there were pre-existing mental health
06:17
condition issues right it might
06:19
exacerbate those
06:20
those issues or cause post-traumatic
06:23
stress
06:23
right but these effects are felt
06:26
particularly hard
06:28
for family suffering abuse
06:34
you're muted belinda
06:38
sorry i set up hot keys so it'd unmute
06:41
me just by pushing a button and they
06:42
never work
06:45
hard keys i think yeah exactly
06:49
okay well that's all going to be cut no
06:50
worries
06:52
but what i was going to ask is
06:55
i know the big disaster going on right
06:56
now is the covid crisis
06:58
what increase in cases like what type of
07:01
cases are you seeing coming in nowadays
07:04
we've seen an increase in all cases
07:07
across the board for the family team
07:10
we've seen a large increase in divorces
07:13
and modifications and also issues with
07:16
custody enforcement
07:17
but we've also seen a very high increase
07:20
in domestic violence right
07:22
and we know we've seen that play out
07:24
right um
07:25
multiple media outlets throughout texas
07:27
have reported on this right we've seen
07:29
um there was a study in dallas county
07:31
that found that there was a 12.5%
07:34
jump in domestic violence incidents in
07:36
that three week period
07:38
after the dallas stay at home orders were
07:40
in place
07:41
san antonio police department reported
07:43
an 18%
07:44
increase in family violence related
07:47
calls
07:48
in harris county they reported um there
07:51
was an increase
07:52
both in domestic violence related calls
07:54
and in the murder rate
07:56
um since covid's been in place domestic
07:58
violence related murderers
08:00
so we know that this situation is is
08:03
affecting families
08:04
and increasing the rate of intimate
08:07
partner violence
08:08
including family violence child abuse
08:11
sexual violence as well
08:14
you know i can ask a couple of questions
08:15
just to make sure again and i do this
08:17
almost every podcast but i want to make
08:18
sure that our speakers know about this
08:19
you know part of the purpose of this is
08:21
that we can place cases with pro bono
08:22
attorneys and you're going to have some
08:24
listeners who have been experienced you
08:25
know family law and they know about
08:26
these issues
08:27
some of them may be starting off and we
08:28
want to ensure assure them we're not
08:30
going to give them this high
08:32
domestic violence highly contested case
08:34
you don't want to place but if
08:35
there is one you provide the resources
08:37
for that but
08:38
i guess a two-part question first of all
08:40
i'm sure we all screen cases but second
08:42
of all if there is dv
08:43
we even provide some resources like
08:45
social workers to help you know uh the
08:46
victims kind of
08:47
uh maneuver you know all the benefits so
08:50
they can communicate just properly with
08:51
their clients and not worry about what's
08:53
going on so it's a two-parter question
08:55
sorry for the compound question
08:57
and i think that's a fantastic question
08:59
if if it is a case that's coming from
09:01
one of our legal aid organizations
09:03
um the clients not only have been
09:05
screened for domestic violence
09:07
but you you said it pablo we do work
09:09
with social workers and we also work
09:11
with
09:12
partner domestic violence agencies so we
09:14
are always trying to make sure that
09:16
they're completely connected to all the
09:18
resources
09:19
that can assist this individual move
09:21
forward in a safe place right we've done
09:23
safety planning we've got
09:25
contacts uh and of course the support to
09:28
keep moving forward
09:29
up for that individual because we know
09:31
that a divorce or a family law case
09:35
typically could be something that
09:36
escalates the violence
09:38
so we're always going to make sure that
09:40
we have
09:41
already done some safety planning with
09:43
our social workers
09:44
and that we have the resources to
09:47
connect them with
09:48
in our community so that they can stay
09:50
safe throughout the dependency of the
09:52
case as well
09:55
so my only connection i don't do family
09:57
law but i do
09:59
i'm in close communication with the
10:01
family law folks at the fort worth
10:02
office here at legal aid in northwest
10:04
texas and
10:05
um from just my anecdotal experience
10:09
that
10:09
they seem to be inundated with cases
10:11
right now and
10:12
i guess i want to get it from your
10:13
perspective you guys service the area
10:15
uh the trla services and so has your
10:18
family law units also taken a or seen an
10:21
increase in these types of cases
10:23
we have the the number of applications
10:26
we've received been receiving has
10:29
has gone up significantly since the
10:31
beginning of the pandemic
10:32
um and some over the summer i think
10:35
several months we
10:35
had almost double what our our number of
10:38
applications were from the prior years
10:40
so we've seen
10:41
a major increase in the number of
10:43
individuals seeking services
10:46
for a variety of reasons right um some
10:49
people
10:49
might just be deciding because of the
10:51
pandemic um
10:53
you know i really need to get to go
10:54
ahead and get that divorce when they've
10:56
been separated for many years and
10:58
those are great cases for our pro bono
11:00
attorneys right to assist with
11:02
um because those are relatively you know
11:04
folks have been separated for quite a
11:06
while those are relatively uncontested
11:07
cases
11:08
um pretty straightforward
11:13pause
i know you mentioned the disaster
11:15
resources are
11:16
restricted as well because the workers
11:18
the buildings that the resources
11:20
of programs are in get affected as well
11:22
uh
11:23
what effect has the remote proceedings
11:26
for those of you out there most know the
11:28
courts are doing zoom hearings and no
11:30
in-person hearings
11:31
does that have effect as far as the flow
11:33
of cases
11:34
and through the family courts most
11:37
definitely i think
11:38
initially there was a delay in all
11:41
hearings so
11:42
you know we had existing clients which
11:45
cases were not moving and then the
11:47
influx of new cases
11:49
made it a problem but then when we're
11:51
talking about individuals who may be
11:54
um you know who are indigent who may not
11:56
have all the resources to
11:58
get on a laptop and maybe the only
12:00
screen they have is a
12:01
it's a smartphone if at that but you
12:04
know reviewing documents together
12:06
getting prepared for court making sure
12:08
they have the wi-fi
12:10
access all those are factors that really
12:12
impact
12:13
our client community and has impacted to
12:16
some extent
12:17
our ability to to move these proceedings
12:19
forward
12:20
that said it's in i'm like very
12:24
impressed of their resiliency and their
12:25
ability to
12:27
still do this work and uh connect
12:30
sometimes our clients are are grateful
12:32
right especially in a domestic violence
12:34
situation
12:35
but they don't have to be in the
12:36
courtroom with their abuser so that's
12:38
one thing that has helped in terms of
12:40
safety
12:41
and feeling more comfortable with the
12:42
process is that they're doing a
12:44
difficult thing but they're not doing it
12:46
in front of the person that really hurt
12:47
them
12:48
and so there is a safety involved in
12:50
that
12:52
so the impact can be felt in different
12:54
areas but i know that
12:56
for the most part the access to
12:59
be able to get on court and be able to
13:02
understand the system if this is not
13:05
something that you
13:06
typically navigate in or you have a
13:08
language access issue
13:10
um those things just get a little bit
13:12
more complicated
13:14
i want to build on that in two two ways
13:16
so like
13:18
again i can only kind of speak from my
13:19
own perspective it's been kind of tricky
13:21
doing
13:22
housing cases via zoom um there's like
13:25
some weird emotional disconnect where
13:27
there's a human element that's missing
13:28
and i want to see are you guys seeing
13:30
that as well
13:31
in in your cases uh and if so can you
13:34
kind of expand upon that
13:36
i definitely think that's an issue it's
13:39
harder i mean especially when you're
13:40
talking about
13:41
very sensitive issues i mean the vast
13:44
majority of our clients right are
13:46
survivors of domestic violence or sexual
13:48
assault and
13:49
and trying to build that rapport
13:51
remotely can be very challenging
13:53
um i you know and and then
13:57
you know the proceedings and and not
13:59
always especially
14:00
right with some of the zoom proceedings
14:02
and the issues with interpretation
14:04
it can be confusing to clients exactly
14:06
what's going on
14:08
right and it does definitely create this
14:10
this disconnect that is making it it's
14:12
adding another
14:14
challenging element to this entire
14:16
process
14:17
it's just you know i i it's not the same
14:20
talking to the client you know over the
14:22
phone or be a zoom as it is having them
14:24
come into the office
14:26
and i think after the hearing when
14:28
you're done you know you're
14:30
off the hearing or you might have
14:32
another hearing and there's not that
14:33
time to console
14:35
or to just encourage you did great or
14:38
you know taking that break in between
14:41
you know
14:42
witnesses or so forth to just you know
14:44
give that encouragement that you need to
14:46
especially in these very difficult type
14:48
of cases i think that that's something
14:50
that is missing and i personally would
14:52
like to go back to
14:53
to in person at proceedings um because
14:57
that
14:57
is terribly missed and i think that um
15:00
it's hard to really check on clients
15:03
after proceeding
15:04
uh when again that means getting on
15:05
another remote call or phone call
15:07
versus just walking them down to their
15:10
car and and talking to them and and
15:12
processing what just happened
15:14
have you noticed any any disconnect
15:17
between
15:19
the the the finder of fact the judge
15:22
and in their ability has it affected the
15:25
judge's ability to kind of see emotion
15:27
whenever the person's not there
15:29
like because i know it's totally
15:31
different it's almost like you're
15:32
watching something on tv for me you know
15:34
um there's this weird
15:37
just disconnect whereas in
15:41
non-covid times being in the room and
15:42
like having to just see the
15:45
the mom crying who might be evicted was
15:47
like
15:48
a lot of times could could change change
15:50
the judges or at least
15:52
make them vulnerable to hear uh the
15:54
person out just a little bit more
15:56
have you noticed anything like that
15:58
especially in these cases that are
16:00
involved such high emotions like i can't
16:02
even imagine what it would be like
16:03
trying to convey to a judge the severity
16:05
of
16:06
an abusive situation uh
16:10
over zoom and not have that person be
16:13
right next to the person so can have you
16:15
experienced that
16:20pause
i can talk from my own personal
16:22
experience is that
16:23
yes there is a little bit of a
16:25
disconnect it is something that you're
16:27
seeing remotely versus
16:28
a live person crying in front of you and
16:31
i think um
16:32
another part of this in addition to the
16:34
fact that you're that
16:35
removed and i just think it's important
16:37
that we talk about it
16:39
is that these proceedings are being you
16:41
know broadcast via youtube
16:43
so here you are talking about something
16:46
super intimate very personal that you're
16:48
embarrassed to even share
16:50
with your best friends and now it's on a
16:52
youtube channel
16:54
who knows who's listening and who is
16:56
able to participate or what they do with
16:58
them
17:00
so that's something new for us that we
17:02
are definitely
17:03
informing clients when we know that the
17:05
client that particular courts do
17:08
zoom live stream uh on to youtube
17:11
you know talking about that issue and of
17:14
course do we need to file a motion to
17:16
restrict the broadcast
17:18
in a protective order case so additional
17:20
factors that may
17:21
impact a client's willingness or a
17:24
victim's ability
17:25
and willingness to fully share because
17:27
they don't know
17:29
who's in the courtroom at least when
17:30
you're in person and it's an open court
17:32
you still know who's in there right and
17:35
this is like
17:36
really not having any control of what
17:37
happens to your story
17:39
who's watching is it an employer is it
17:41
you know another child that maybe goes
17:43
to school with your kids it's uh
17:46
very challenging and i think that adds
17:48
an added factor
17:50
that not only maybe is the court going
17:52
to be remotely seeing or observing
17:54
you know being distant but also that you
17:58
have
17:58
somebody who's maybe monitoring
18:00
themselves as well
18:01
because they don't know where that
18:02
information is going to go so
18:05
it's just an added layer to think about
18:08
i do hear that actually when all this
18:10
started that there was enough
18:11
uptake in mediations and arbitrations i
18:14
guess you know and
18:15
alternative dispute resolution because
18:16
of this exact issue like when you were
18:18
told
18:18
it's one thing to tell somebody you know
18:20
you're going to be live in court saying
18:21
this like you're going to be on youtube
18:22
saying this and they're like okay let me
18:24
go back and work on this which might
18:25
work in our favor some of the pro bono
18:26
council and
18:27
some of the bigger cities have disputed
18:28
resolution centers dros
18:30
uh you know the domestic relations
18:32
offices and that might help you with
18:33
that
18:34
to play the devil's advocate here uh a
18:35
little bit about this the video stuff um
18:38
i have to say that you know about like
18:40
eight or ten years ago i helped amber i
18:42
think it was you remember we did a skype
18:44
hearing for a client
18:45
those of us would practice in the border
18:46
area you know that if our client when
18:48
the
18:48
disaster hits and the people population
18:51
is very mobile and they go
18:52
north of a checkpoint you can't get him
18:54
back you know for testimony
18:56
we got to actually really litigate hard
18:58
to get somebody to skype
18:59
uh the victim you know to skype in from
19:02
that and that was like ten years ago
19:03
that and the judge
19:04
i'm sure now it's a whole different
19:06
perspective which i think is positive
19:07
for our clients for those of you
19:08
speaking of the cases
19:10
your client might move somewhere else
19:11
you can't consult with them but at least
19:13
now the judges are comfortable with the
19:14
technology and maybe
19:15
amber you can probably explain how ten
19:16
years ago it was like a novel thing
19:18
and you know having to carry the tv into
19:20
the courtroom and putting it up
19:22
and now it's standard par for the course
19:25
of course right go ahead
19:28
and i think it's it i mean like you said
19:31
pablo it's a
19:32
great advantage for especially for
19:34
survivors who may have fled
19:36
right because of abuse and now they're
19:38
in a different state
19:39
and maybe there's proceedings going on
19:41
back here in texas right
19:43
they can continue to be part of the
19:44
proceedings right like my maricarmen said
19:46
but not have to actually be
19:48
in the courtroom and for multiple
19:50
reasons i mean especially for
19:52
for our client population that we serve
19:54
right indigent
19:55
i mean traveling back and forth right
19:57
and can be very expensive so i
19:59
definitely think
20:00
i mean there are some things about the
20:01
remote proceedings that i hope
20:03
stay after the pandemic because there are
20:05
definitely some advantages that we've
20:07
seen
20:08
and i mean the advantage for me is i may
20:10
be in houston but i can take cases
20:12
anywhere for the same reason because i
20:14
can participate remotely i do not have
20:16
to take a full day of travel
20:18
or worse so when i know some of our
20:21
offices may be at capacity
20:23
and there's a really you know high
20:25
priority case that came in that
20:27
you know even though i'm so far away
20:29
that i might still be able to
20:30
fully engage and take a case uh remotely
20:34
has allowed not only me but other legal
20:36
aid attorneys to
20:38
take cases in areas far away from where
20:40
they typically practice
20:43
and the great advantage right is if you
20:44
have a if you're a pro bono attorney and
20:46
you want to get
20:48
experience practicing in a different
20:49
area right you have the advantage of you
20:52
can also watch the court's proceedings
20:54
on youtube to get a feel for what it's
20:55
like to practice in that area before you
20:57
actually take on a case there
21:00
which i think is really helpful right
21:02
because most of us wouldn't have time to
21:04
go
21:05
drive you know some to a different
21:07
county to see
21:08
to observe a court hearing right but
21:10
because everything is on youtube
21:12
um for the most part you can observe
21:14
another another
21:15
um court's hearings and see what it's
21:18
like to practice in that area if you're
21:19
interested in taking
21:20
you know taking cases in a different in
21:22
a different area as well
21:24
I’m telling you amber you're gonna take my job
21:25
here if i'm not careful that was very
21:27
good
21:28
i know but that's a great point um one
21:31
thing
21:31
i know my legal aid is worried about
21:33
it's like we want to keep those zoom
21:35
hearing comings we want to keep that as
21:36
an option
21:37
because before covid it was like pulling
21:39
teeth like you said to get them on skype
21:41
or
21:42
even a phone call in and i know with our
21:45
client base and even when i was at the
21:46
attorney general's office in the child
21:48
support division
21:49
you can send your hate mail now
21:53
um for our clients to come in for
21:56
a child support modification or
21:57
enforcement that meant taking a day off
22:00
work that meant
22:01
traveling that and then if it got reset
22:03
or dismissed or there was a service
22:05
issue that meant another day they were
22:06
gonna have to take off which they can't
22:08
afford
22:09
and their jobs may not be so flexible
22:12
with them taking the time off
22:14
so the zoom hearing has been a godsend
22:16
in that case
22:17
and also i know for those legal aid out
22:20
there
22:21
that do reduce fee not free like we do
22:24
they don't have to charge the traveling
22:26
or the mileage so that saves grant money
22:28
that they can use on other cases
22:31
so yeah um pros and cons to the remote
22:33
hearings but
22:34
i know for our client base it's a good
22:36
thing so
22:38
for those of you who don't like it out
22:39
there get use to it please
22:41
it it's it's helpful it really benefits
22:44
a lot more people
22:45
i'm not arguing against everyone i just
22:47
i uh
22:49
yeah i prefer in person i mean it's just
22:52
i mean but i mostly do housing so i
22:54
can't really speak to that well like
22:56
amber maricarman said
22:58
um you kind of do you
23:01
lose a little bit of the human element
23:02
and sometimes especially domestic
23:04
violence victims they're already
23:06
reluctant to tell their story and
23:08
like they said now they're on youtube
23:09
it's not a closed
23:11
courtroom and yeah it just
23:14
i mean it adds it has difficulties and
23:17
it
23:18
has a lot of pros as well yeah i think
23:21
for
23:21
a pro bono perspective it's all probably
23:24
a positive
23:25
um because everything is going to be
23:27
more accessible
23:28
um witnesses that you may not be able to
23:31
get down to the courthouse because they
23:33
can't take you know a full day but
23:35
they'll be able to be on call and just
23:37
you know from wherever they are
23:39
be able to participate i think that
23:41
there's definitely pros and cons and
23:44
and hopefully when covid is no longer
23:47
the issue
23:48
that we get to keep some of the benefits
23:50
of it um now that we know it works
23:53
speaking on the other end of issues and
23:55
talking about some of the problems you
23:56
might face when their disaster does hit
23:58
and the
23:58
population becomes pretty mobile you
24:00
can't find them anywhere as we all know
24:02
anybody who does family law maybe most
24:04
litigation services process notice of
24:06
the lawsuit that's going to be like the
24:08
biggest
24:08
build-up in work initially once you get
24:10
that done then you kind of you know get
24:12
to your what you learn in law school
24:14
but on the practical side of it you all
24:16
have any um
24:18
experiences or tips you know on how to
24:20
maybe be able to serve the respondent of
24:21
the opponent now
24:22
with the possible use of social media i
24:24
think an online posting by the office of
24:27
court administration
24:28
uh you know and substitute the service
24:30
like what's your experience been so that
24:32
Our partners when they pick up a case
24:33
and the respondent is gone and they have
24:34
to serve them
24:35
what can they do
24:38
well you always have right substitute
24:40
service under
24:41
under 106 right where after attempting
24:44
to serve someone personally
24:46
you can then request the court to have
24:49
them served
24:50
by leaving the citation with anyone over
24:53
the age of 16
24:55
at the residence where they're likely to
24:57
be found
24:58
so that's always an option right you
25:00
have to attempt personal service first
25:02
and um file and you actually have to
25:04
have two affidavits right the affidavit
25:06
that you attempted service and then you
25:08
also have to have the affidavit
25:10
um that they're likely to be found at
25:12
that residence and it's as likely to
25:14
serve them right as regular service
25:16
would
25:16
um but one advantage that we've had and
25:19
i
25:20
i think it's you know this was in the
25:22
works before the pandemic
25:23
right is for individuals that you can't
25:26
find right where you would have to do
25:28
um service by publication right and
25:31
there was a change
25:32
um to the law here over the summer um
25:35
that allows for a citation by
25:37
publication
25:38
um online and it's through the um
25:42
the oca right they have set up a website
25:45
um that you can do publication online
25:47
and it's particularly
25:49
helpful for indigent individuals because
25:51
if you have a statement of inability to
25:53
pay
25:54
on file you can actually do the
25:56
publication online instead of having to
25:58
do posting
25:59
or i'm sorry publication in a newspaper
26:02
so
26:03
um it does it does help with that that
26:05
process
26:08
that's interesting uh i'm sure we have
26:10
the resources and materials you know
26:12
available for our pro bono if they ever
26:13
want to
26:14
ask about those motions i think i'm
26:15
actually going to email you about that
26:16
soon i didn't realize this
26:20
well just for our pro bono attorneys out
26:23
there that
26:25
may take a volunteer case and it ends up
26:28
being a domestic violence and dv case
26:30
what's some good screening techniques
26:32
and if they do find themselves in the
26:34
middle of the case
26:35
what can they do what kind of
26:36
protections can we get out there
26:38
either through the court or through
26:39
other resources
26:43
well there's many different types to
26:46
to screen uh domestic violence and i
26:49
know that we included
26:50
and some of the materials that we wanted
26:52
to share with anybody who views or
26:54
listens to this podcast
26:56
but the most important thing is to to
26:58
listen to what the
27:00
individual is telling you and to believe
27:04
if there is indeed an allegation of
27:06
family violence
27:08
um quite typically family violence
27:10
offenses are the most
27:12
under reported offenses ever so
27:15
just because there is an absence of
27:17
police reports or no criminal cases
27:20
does not mean that there is not a
27:22
domestic violence
27:23
situation occurring um and and so
27:27
to look for those uh other issues
27:30
uh or try to make sure that there's a
27:32
police report to bring it up
27:34
it's not going to be there most of the
27:35
time because it really
27:37
is incredibly underreported and
27:40
sometimes even when they do report
27:42
there may not be a report that is uh
27:44
available
27:46
for a victim to to prove that this
27:47
happened or that they did
27:49
indeed complain about it but one of the
27:52
tools that i think is
27:53
incredibly helpful um is the power and
27:56
control
27:56
tool because sometimes not only are you
27:59
looking at
28:00
um the outward manifestation of this
28:03
imbalance
28:04
when there's domestic violence but there
28:06
might be economic abuse
28:08
there may be the use of children there
28:09
may be the use of
28:11
you know immigration as a tool so it's
28:14
quite often really asking those
28:16
questions
28:17
may give you as an attorney you know a
28:20
really great insight of what that power
28:22
dynamic
28:23
is like um when i typically meet with a
28:26
client that's one of the first things
28:28
that i do as a homework right their
28:29
little thought
28:30
is gonna be here's a power and control
28:32
wheel um
28:33
and and it's a material that's been
28:35
widely published right as
28:37
how uh power dynamic occurs in a
28:40
relationship with there's violence
28:42
they will highlight a lot of the issues
28:44
and then that's my
28:46
screening tool to ask tell me about this
28:48
situation
28:50
tell me about the bank who keeps the
28:51
cards you know can you
28:53
um do you have access to any of the
28:55
financial information and really start
28:57
crafting
28:58
that that um narrative
29:02
right based on what their experience is
29:04
so that we can understand
29:05
what the dynamics are whether violence
29:08
was used
29:09
throughout the marriage or just the one
29:10
time or it's just that impending threat
29:13
of violence um it's really important to
29:15
to understand and then connect them with
29:17
resources that may be able to
29:19
to assist that survivor do more safety
29:22
planning
29:25
right and i think maricarmen brings up
29:26
a really important point right is that
29:28
we have to recognize that not all
29:30
domestic violence situations look the
29:32
same
29:33
right um you have verbal abuse emotional
29:36
abuse right financial abuse is very very
29:39
common and often
29:40
underlooked in these situations and i
29:42
think
29:43
it's so important to for you know
29:45
attorneys to ask these questions very
29:47
very open-ended and non-judgmentally and
29:50
be careful about the language you're
29:52
using right because
29:53
um by asking questions you know in a
29:56
certain well
29:57
why didn't you make a police report
29:58
right you're
30:00
causing you know could possibly be
30:02
causing the victim to
30:03
shut down and not share any more
30:05
information right so we have to really
30:08
think about how you're asking these
30:10
questions and trying to get this
30:11
information in a very
30:13
you know non-judgmental very open ended
30:16
way right because if
30:17
if a survivor is is opening up and
30:20
sharing with you their story that they
30:21
may not have told anyone else right
30:23
it's very important that we not um
30:26
be the ones to you know scare them away
30:29
from talking about it in the future
30:30
right um and make them feel like they're
30:33
being judged
30:34
um you know so it's it's very important
30:36
like maricarman said to
30:38
you know to listen to believe right
30:41
and um to provide safety planning um
30:47
oh sorry i didn't mean to stop but uh
30:49
you know i wanted to say something
30:50
because
30:50
the oldest person here in the room uh
30:53
and somebody you know i did a good
30:54
amount of uh family law violence
30:56
cases um and i remember that i was
30:59
surprised i changed my interview style
31:01
when i read about battered spouse syndrome
31:03
i whenever i read about ptsd you know
31:06
and the dsm4
31:07
how it wasn't even in the dsm-4 uh where
31:10
the manual is for diagnosis
31:12
for even like the ptsd was there for
31:14
like you know vietnam veterans when they
31:15
returned back from the vietnam war and
31:17
then eventually you know
31:18
now i think it's been added the battered
31:20
spouse syndrome and how
31:21
you just said if you don't you're not
31:23
careful what you're saying to the person
31:25
you're not listening
31:26
they will shut down and that would
31:27
frustrate not only the attorney but
31:29
even the court sometimes and you have to
31:31
kind of educate the court why isn't the
31:33
client remembering things because you're
31:34
having to put them into the situation
31:36
that put them in
31:37
so you have a disaster you have violence
31:39
going on imagine all that's carrying
31:40
upon them
31:41
uh so i think it's a very important
31:43
point and again i want to refer back to
31:45
our social workers and our resources how
31:47
they can help you communicate with your
31:49
client and then having the client be
31:50
a better communicator to the court too
31:52
because it's going to matter
31:54
and and i think you know really
31:56
identifying all the different areas
31:58
where a victim may be
31:59
impacted right it may not just be the
32:02
the family bonds which is really
32:03
important to address
32:04
but the financial the economic um as
32:07
you're working
32:08
through any kind of case with somebody
32:11
who's a survivor of violence you need to
32:12
be
32:13
cognizant of how important you know that
32:15
financial stability
32:17
is going to be right and if you're
32:19
talking with about somebody who may be
32:21
also uh maybe undocumented or has like
32:24
an immigration issue you know the
32:25
importance to
32:27
have certain things you know awarded
32:29
because it's going to be impossible
32:31
in a situation that they may be to to
32:34
you know
32:35
get new financing to get a car to do
32:37
those things
32:38
so really understanding all of the
32:40
circumstances
32:42
is gonna not only create a better
32:44
outcome for for that individual but for
32:46
the family and the children who are also
32:48
impacted so uh
32:52
i don't know how deep into this we want
32:54
to get but i'm learning a lot
32:56
um a lot of it i already kind of knew
32:59
the gist of but i'm learning it
33:00
more more concretely here and so what
33:04
and i think of myself as someone who's
33:07
good at doing intake and doing client
33:09
interviews but maybe i'm bad at it now
33:11
uh but so i want to ask like the example
33:14
amber you gave was
33:16
and let me preface this by saying i
33:18
rarely interact with individuals who
33:20
at least are coming to us because of
33:22
instances of domestic violence um
33:24
but sometimes i do and so for my own
33:26
edification
33:28
say for example there was an instance in
33:30
which an intake or a client
33:32
was the victim of of domestic violence
33:35
and they didn't file a police report or
33:37
call the police
33:39
you use that example and i'm actually
33:41
genuinely curious how do you ask that
33:43
how do you figure that out because it
33:46
might be something that's
33:47
pretty common i know we know it's very
33:49
common and if we have a pro bono
33:50
attorney in the same circumstance
33:52
i'm sure they would want to know like
33:53
how do i phrase this to
33:55
not make this person clam up
33:58
so i and typically what i'll say is
34:00
instead of asking
34:02
you know did you know instead of saying
34:05
well why didn't you make a police report
34:07
i'll ask it very open-ended right so
34:10
um did you talk to anyone about what
34:13
happened
34:14
you know um you know was there you know
34:17
you can ask it right instead of saying
34:19
why didn't you make a police report you
34:21
could say
34:22
you know was there any report to law
34:24
enforcement made
34:25
and also i think it helps to give
34:27
context about why you're asking about
34:29
this
34:30
right so saying you know this is
34:32
something that sometimes might get
34:34
brought
34:34
get asked in court you know i'm not i'm
34:37
not you know
34:38
asked this is the reason why i'm asking
34:40
you this right to give that contact
34:42
so the victim doesn't feel like okay
34:45
they're judging me right um and shut
34:48
down
34:52
and i guess you want to remember too
34:53
like you know the situation i'm sorry
34:55
interrupt but i mean
34:56
i know this by the way i interviewed my
34:57
client like if they're in a disaster you
35:00
want to ask them
35:00
so was your car flooded could you even
35:03
go somewhere could you use your phone
35:04
where your lights on
35:06
you know and as you're kind of asking
35:07
these questions and you know now apply
35:09
i think the client realizes oh yeah
35:11
you're right and they realize now okay
35:13
we're in this together
35:14
and you're right about that thank you
35:15
for cleaning me and moving me forward
35:16
that's what i would especially for me as
35:18
a male to interview most of our clients
35:19
you know 80-90%
35:20
were female there was definitely a
35:22
shutdown like this guy's not gonna know
35:23
and once you identify that way and kind
35:25
of say let's go through the process and
35:27
see what's gonna matter
35:28
paint the picture what happened you know
35:30
then i think they feel more comfortable
35:31
talking to you once you gain that trust
35:35
and i think it's it's really helpful if
35:36
you lead into it like that right
35:38
so you know now i want to ask you some
35:41
questions
35:42
about your relationship and and how your
35:45
spouse your significant other treated
35:46
you during the relationship
35:48
if at any time you need to take a break
35:50
or you
35:51
you feel overwhelmed we can you know we
35:54
can
35:54
stop talking right to let them know that
35:57
it's okay
35:57
right because i mean we know talking
36:01
about the incidents right
36:02
um can bring up secondary trauma for
36:05
survivors and so we don't we don't want
36:07
to cause that and so it's important to
36:09
let them know it's okay if you need to
36:11
take a break
36:12
right and i think it's why it's
36:13
important for attorneys that are working
36:15
with
36:16
the survivors to understand the effects
36:18
of trauma and how
36:19
it plays out in different ways for
36:20
different survivors so that
36:22
if they see those reactions um that they
36:25
can you know say okay well let's let's
36:27
take a break right now you know
36:28
um and and like maricarmen said we're
36:31
we're very fortunately glad to have our
36:34
social work team and also have
36:36
these wonderful connections you know
36:37
with our shelter partners
36:40
to assist and support survivors
36:42
throughout this process because
36:45
it is you know it is very very
36:47
challenging
36:49
and i think um in addition to once we
36:52
get that story out
36:54
the first time um it's so important to
36:56
not have them like repeat it
36:58
over and over again because that
37:00
re-traumatizes
37:01
uh sometimes by the time they get to our
37:03
office or to speak with one of us
37:05
they've already had to tell the story
37:07
you know if there was law enforcement
37:09
law enforcement
37:10
cps i mean maybe a shelter worker and
37:14
so the more they have to retell that
37:16
experience i know that
37:18
um it it really impacts their ability
37:22
their trauma threshold i mean it's just
37:24
over
37:26
the top at that point so we try to
37:28
minimize that so if we're working with
37:30
somebody we
37:31
hopefully have already a pretty good
37:33
description and fleshed out situation
37:36
so that you can start working with an
37:38
idea of what that is
37:40
about and then maybe only when you're
37:41
about to get to court you can go
37:43
and really start looking into it some
37:45
more in how you're going to present that
37:48
evidence
37:50
uh and you guys mentioned earlier
37:52
different types of domestic violence
37:53
i think one of the things you need to be
37:55
aware of when you're screening is
37:57
sometimes it's not the traditional or
38:00
mainstream but what we think of as
38:02
domestic violence
38:03
directed physical or verbal abuse at the
38:06
person
38:07
sometimes it's indirect they threatened
38:09
pets
38:10
they had one client
38:14
threaten to burn all of her artwork if
38:16
she left
38:18
which she had a lot and some of it she
38:19
had done herself which were
38:21
is irreplaceable and also i see a lot of
38:24
financial abuse
38:25
where they don't have any control of the
38:28
funds
38:29
um i had one poor lady she didn't even
38:31
know what bank accounts they had her
38:33
name wasn't on any other credit card she
38:35
didn't know if he had a retirement
38:36
account she didn't know if they had a
38:37
mortgage on the house
38:39
and that's why she was coming to legal
38:41
aid because she literally had finally
38:42
left
38:42
but she didn't have anything and just
38:46
be aware it may not be what you're
38:48
thinking of as abuse when you're asking
38:51
those questions
38:54
exactly and and i think we we have to be
38:57
really careful on how we ask the
38:59
questions as well
39:00
um because although some of it like
39:03
financial abuse or
39:04
some of the other kind of um abusive
39:07
manipulative control that may exist may
39:10
not be actionable
39:11
for purposes of a protective order or
39:14
for purposes
39:15
of you know finding that there was a
39:17
finding of family violence as
39:19
it's described in the family code it
39:22
really matters for the court at the time
39:24
that they make a decision on certain
39:26
items but many times i will talk to a
39:29
survivor
39:30
and they'll say it's only verbal that's
39:32
only verbal that i've experienced or
39:34
emotional abuse
39:36
but it's important that we ask what
39:37
words were used right
39:39
because if the word is like you're a
39:41
terrible mother or you're
39:42
worthless it's one thing versus i am
39:45
going to kill you
39:46
you know it may be a verbal threat but
39:48
it is something that
39:50
is indeed actionable and that it is a
39:52
basis
39:53
for family violence um either protective
39:55
order and or
39:57
other measures that could give some
39:59
relief
40:00
in a family law court and we do want to
40:04
share
40:04
right for the attorneys out there that
40:05
are wondering kind of how
40:07
is there a guide or something right on
40:09
the right questions to ask
40:11
the aba the commission on domestic
40:13
violence did put out some materials it's
40:16
a tool um specifically for attorneys to
40:19
screen for domestic violence and it
40:21
walks you through some of these
40:22
questions that we're talking about right
40:24
in a very open-ended way
40:26
so like one of the examples of the
40:27
questions right is there anything
40:29
um that goes on in your home that makes
40:31
you feel afraid right so it's very
40:33
open-ended right and it addresses a lot
40:35
of different types of violence that
40:37
that survivors might be experiencing
40:39
right including
40:40
um like belinda mentioned abuse of pets
40:42
right
40:43
um economic abuse so that is a resource
40:47
that that
40:48
is available for attorneys when they're
40:49
wondering right how how can i phrase
40:51
these questions
40:56
i wanted to say something that kind of
40:58
ties in not only to what amber said but
41:00
you know stuart you mentioned earlier
41:02
that you know you don't
41:03
maybe deal directly with somebody
41:07
who experiences you know domestic
41:08
violence because you're doing housing
41:11
but what i would tell you is that the
41:12
rates are one in four women
41:14
in this country um are or will
41:17
experience domestic violence during
41:19
their lifetime is that the truth is that
41:21
you are engaging
41:22
with these individuals um and you know
41:25
it's really important that even in in a
41:27
non
41:28
you know family law related situation
41:30
where you are
41:32
working with somebody that you are
41:33
cognizant that they are either
41:35
a survivor of violence or sexual assault
41:37
and that
41:38
is impacting sometimes in some of the
41:40
other areas of law that we work with
41:43
right because uh it impacts everything
41:46
um so i i want you to know that whatever
41:49
area of law you practice of these tools
41:52
are really effective
41:53
and it'll give you a better
41:54
understanding of how you can best serve
41:56
your clients
41:57
and that's what i wanted to mention uh
41:59
that the finding of family
42:01
violence you know we're talking about
42:02
that and how these things are how you
42:04
can identify it and you get that but
42:05
then the finding of family violence on
42:07
the legal aspect of it
42:08
you mentioned it in brief but it does
42:10
affect uh custody
42:11
issues it will affect the division of
42:13
property if they're married over 10
42:14
years it can actually mean alimony or
42:16
i think spousal maintenance and even for
42:19
like
42:19
leases and housing it does matter and so
42:23
i want to make sure that our pro bono
42:24
attorneys maybe don't deal with dv
42:25
issues often
42:26
to realize how important it is and why
42:28
sometimes it becomes sort of a battle of
42:30
like saying you know
42:31
was there a family of violence on both
42:33
sides thing because they might have the
42:34
respondent and saying that there wasn't
42:35
on my side
42:36
but it is a very important tool to use
42:38
if you do have it you have that client
42:40
space with you with a protective order
42:41
there's a finding somewhere
42:43
it can apply many different things
42:45
that's one of the things i do want to
42:47
touch on
42:47
before we uh leave the podcast
42:51
just on protective orders we've
42:52
mentioned protective orders a couple
42:54
times
42:54
during this program but what are the
42:57
different
42:58
types of protective orders what
42:59
protections should they offer and then
43:00
how do you actually get one for your
43:02
client if they need one
43:07
amber do you want to address this one
43:10
and i'd be happy to
43:11
to talk about it as well but i i think
43:14
that definitely
43:15
um you can cover this and i might touch
43:18
up
43:18
at the end so there are
43:21
there are a number of different types of
43:22
protective orders and some are more well
43:24
known than others right typically
43:26
what most people think of when they
43:27
think about protective words is the
43:29
family violence protective order
43:31
but there's also protective orders for
43:33
stalking um
43:34
sexual assault or sexual abuse um and
43:37
for human trafficking as well um
43:41
and um stalking sorry i'm not sure if i
43:44
said that one already
43:45
um so those are available
43:48
and they have different requirements
43:50
right and different lengths of time that
43:51
they can be in effect for um for example
43:54
the family violence protective order
43:56
requires
43:56
um that the person that you're seeking a
43:59
protective order against either be
44:00
a family member or foreign resident of
44:03
that the household
44:04
right and you can also obtain a
44:07
protective order
44:08
in situations where um maybe
44:11
a husband and wife they're separated
44:14
right and the
44:16
the um we'll just use this for example
44:18
right the husband's
44:20
new significant other is now um
44:23
is now threatening and harassing and um
44:26
maybe even assaulted on the applicant
44:28
they can actually file for a family
44:30
violence protective order against that
44:31
third party because there's that
44:33
that connection that that nexus there
44:35
with the relationship
44:36
um so family violence protective orders
44:39
we
44:40
think about you have to think about is
44:41
there this required relationship right
44:44
but with um sexual assault stalking and
44:47
human trafficking there's no
44:49
relationship required
44:50
i think that's what confuses a lot of
44:52
practitioners who don't
44:54
who aren't um who don't normally take
44:56
these cases is that there's no
44:58
there's no relationship requirement um
45:00
for those stalking sexual assault or
45:02
human trafficking protective orders and
45:05
those can be granted for up to a
45:06
lifetime of the
45:08
victim and the um the perpetrator right
45:11
um so it's it's very very helpful for
45:14
survivors of stalking and sexual abuse
45:17
right to be able to obtain those for up
45:18
to a lifetime
45:20
um and then for family violence
45:21
protective orders typically
45:23
the duration is two years although they
45:24
can be longer in instances where there's
45:27
um what assault that's considered a
45:29
felony right such as strangulation or
45:32
serious bodily injury
45:33
um you can obtain a protective order for
45:35
longer or if there's been
45:37
two prior protective orders with finding
45:40
a family violence you can have a
45:41
projective order for more than two years
45:47
yeah one thing that i will add up with
45:49
the non-family violence
45:51
protective orders the one that may apply
45:53
for perhaps a co-worker
45:55
uh somebody that maybe is in the same
45:57
school with you and
45:59
maybe somebody that was an acquaintance
46:01
um and
46:02
you know those are so important and
46:04
sometimes individuals feel
46:06
so lost in their ability of what
46:09
recourses they may have
46:11
um and it could really make a big
46:12
difference um what we
46:14
know is that when you're in a family
46:16
bonds uh relationship or were you in a
46:18
family
46:19
you at least know what the other party
46:21
is about to do right either because
46:23
you've shared you know some life
46:25
experiences together
46:27
you may know the patterns you may know
46:28
whatever they go to work but when you're
46:30
talking
46:31
about somebody that is merely an
46:33
acquaintance it's a lot
46:35
more scary because you have no idea
46:38
really
46:39
where they may be what they're doing
46:40
their their patterns and there's
46:42
it's much harder to safety plan when you
46:44
don't know the other
46:45
individual so um those are
46:48
are challenging but the requirements are
46:50
going to be substantially different
46:52
and also it's a fantastic tool um
46:56
in in the many tools that somebody can
46:58
do to stay safe
47:00
one of the things that i i think is
47:01
great for in terms of a pro bono
47:03
attorney who may be interested in doing
47:06
a protective order case is that there's
47:08
such a quick
47:09
turnaround right this is not going to be
47:11
a case that lasts two to three years
47:14
because from filing to the time that you
47:16
go to court prove your case
47:17
you know it's going to be 14 to 20 days
47:20
depending on what jurisdiction you're in
47:22
and then maybe there might be a
47:23
continuance but it's something that
47:25
you know does not take too much of your
47:28
time and that there's going to be ample
47:29
of support and resources
47:31
um for somebody who may be interested in
47:34
doing this work
47:35
that is so needed and could really
47:37
change
47:38
the life of somebody
47:41
and for our pro bono attorneys out there
47:44
thinking of helping what other type of
47:46
cases would be good
47:48
for them to take on so
47:51
since um the pandemic started right
47:54
we've seen
47:54
a major need for increases in
47:57
enforcement actions
47:59
and the really great thing about filing
48:00
enforcement actions is they also
48:02
include the availability of attorney's
48:04
fees right for the prevailing party
48:06
so um enforcements can include things
48:09
like we've seen
48:10
um an increase of need for assistance
48:12
with enforcement for
48:14
things like spousal maintenance right
48:16
which for a survivor can be
48:17
very important in just maintaining that
48:20
financial
48:21
stability right um increase in
48:24
needs for enforcement of possession and
48:26
access orders because we know
48:28
we've seen throughout the pandemic
48:30
there's been an increase in
48:32
imparting in um especially abusers right
48:36
not following the um court order
48:38
possession and access schedule
48:40
and so filing an enforcement um to get
48:44
to have the child returned and the
48:46
current order followed is very important
48:49
in the past we've been able to typically
48:50
call law enforcement but
48:52
with the pandemic law enforcement has
48:54
been much more reluctant and less likely
48:56
to go out and
48:57
try to recover the child even if there's
48:58
a court order in place
49:00
and so this is another really um these
49:03
are very quick cases right it's
49:05
you know file your motion set it for a
49:07
hearing um
49:09
usually get a hearing pretty quickly on
49:10
these um and
49:12
and you have the availability right of
49:14
getting attorney's fees as well which is
49:15
which is great
49:18
and i think you know just getting a
49:19
divorce for somebody that's been
49:20
separated for
49:21
many many years and that now you're in a
49:24
situation where there may be
49:26
you know either covid or any kind of
49:28
other disaster
49:29
and like it's an impetus to get things
49:32
squared away right either to
49:33
clear title to property because you've
49:35
been separated for so long and you want
49:37
to make sure that
49:38
if something happens to you that you
49:40
know all the affairs are in order you
49:41
know so those things are
49:43
things that we're starting to see
49:45
individuals that just been separated for
49:47
a long time and never got to the next
49:48
step of
49:49
divorcing so those are also cases that
49:53
are pretty straightforward
49:54
and usually most of their assets and
49:57
children
49:58
are either grown or there's already
49:59
orders in place for those children so
50:02
it makes it just a process that may need
50:04
somebody to walk them through it
50:06
but it makes a big difference to to the
50:09
individuals
50:11
and that's another aspect um i think
50:13
people kind of forget about
50:15
especially if they are practicing family
50:17
law out there and want to volunteer
50:19
this podcast and this website's all
50:22
about disaster and they
50:23
don't think well i'm a family lawyer
50:24
what does that have to do with disaster
50:26
and to that i have to say i was actually
50:29
hired by lone star's disaster relief
50:31
unit from the oag because
50:33
they were getting family cases for title
50:36
clearing purposes
50:37
like you said married separated for a
50:40
very long time
50:42
both names still on the title they
50:44
going for recovery funds
50:46
both owners had a sign she has no clue
50:48
where the husband is
50:49
she can't get the recovery funds until
50:51
we take care of this
50:52
and you take care of this by getting the
50:54
divorce so
50:56
yes and usually they're very simple
50:58
usually the only thing is the house
51:00
and maybe some service issues sometimes
51:03
i was able to
51:04
fairly quickly and they were all about
51:06
signing paperwork so
51:08
that's those simple divorces are what 60
51:10
days if everything goes really smoothly
51:12
so
51:13
and not very time consuming not not a
51:15
lot of hours and hours and hours of work
51:17
so but but still needing an attorney
51:19
because of the property issue right it's
51:21
not going to be something that they
51:22
could just go
51:23
fill out a form and not really
51:25
understand so having that guidance and
51:27
that knowledge
51:28
uh it's going to go a long way in
51:30
protecting everybody and to make sure
51:32
that
51:32
you know property is distributed or you
51:35
know they can get the relief that they
51:36
need
51:37
which makes a huge difference in their
51:39
life because if they don't get their
51:40
house repaired
51:41
they're possibly facing homelessness or
51:43
staying on a relative's couch for months
51:45
until
51:46
they can find a new place which as we
51:48
know affordable housing in the city
51:49
after disaster is
51:51
non-existent
51:54
okay i think let's see pablo the
51:58
time cop still i mean we got what about
52:00
five minutes left
52:02
we are about seven minutes or so
52:04
actually we're still there and we're
52:05
pretty good
52:06
at this pablo the time cop wow come on
52:09
man wait y'all gotta use that
52:12
i'm the oldest person here just kind of
52:14
call me father time that's what you
52:25
anyone who works at legal aid and really
52:28
anyone who works at legal aid or pays attention
52:29
knows the bad stories about family
52:32
violence
52:33
right um i mean they're all over the
52:36
news and you we said to the top of the
52:38
show today that
52:39
the rates have gone up murders have gone
52:43
up during this crisis this covid 19
52:44
crisis and so
52:46
we all kind of know the bad stories and
52:48
so i don't want to i don't want to
52:49
belabor that but i do want to know if
52:50
you guys want to share
52:52
anything that especially if it's in this
52:54
crisis but it could be
52:55
from a different natural disaster uh
52:58
where you have a client story you might
52:59
want to share that the
53:00
outcome is it up good and and because of
53:03
the help of a legal attorney or a pro
53:04
bono attorney you were able to either
53:06
get them out of an abusive situation or
53:08
potentially save someone's life
53:10
open up to both you i guess i
53:14
i have had the privilege of doing this
53:16
work for for a long time pablo i'm right
53:18
behind you i think uh 20 years at trla
53:21
this
53:21
april so i've had the
53:24
not only the ability to to do the work
53:27
but
53:27
see my clients that i served in the past
53:31
like come full circle right i've been
53:34
long enough to not only see
53:35
the times where things didn't work but
53:37
then where the work that we did
53:39
created something amazing i've had a
53:41
couple of clients who have started like
53:43
their own organization service
53:45
organizations to help
53:47
others you know start a charity event to
53:49
make sure that
53:50
children who are in the shelter are
53:52
getting toys for christmas
53:54
and this again is somebody that you know
53:56
when we started working with them
53:58
needed all the help and now not only are
54:00
they
54:02
moving forward and changing their own
54:04
lives but changing the lives of others
54:06
because
54:07
we gave them that ability to to free
54:09
themselves of
54:10
a very abusive situation and and and
54:13
they did all the work we
54:14
just had the benefit of being a tool for
54:18
that change so
54:19
i am grateful for the work because i all
54:22
the bad things that have an also to take
54:24
all the good things and it gives me hope
54:26
for
54:26
for you know what we're doing and for
54:29
all the clients that i will see and yet
54:31
to see
54:34
along those lines i had a client
54:37
call me um earlier this year
54:41
one of them by one of my earlier cases
54:43
that i took on and i represented her
54:45
in a in a protective order case and then
54:49
helped her get divorced and also
54:52
because of all of the issues with the
54:55
court hearings in the custody case there
54:57
was also
54:57
another matter she was dealing with with
54:59
one of her children's school
55:02
and i represented her in that case in jp
55:05
court as well
55:06
and so i got to know the family very
55:09
very well
55:10
over the years um in representing her
55:12
and she had called me back
55:15
out of the blue earlier this year and
55:18
one of her daughters was going to go to
55:20
law school and she was calling me
55:22
just very very excited um you know that
55:26
her daughter wanted to go to law school
55:27
and she just wanted to call me and let
55:29
me know because you know this
55:31
had became possible because she was able
55:33
to leave the abusive relationship and
55:35
the children were doing well and thriving
55:37
and it was just such an incredible story
55:39
right and sometimes you know when we're
55:41
in it
55:41
doing these cases day in and day out you
55:43
know it is
55:45
you know it can it it's challenging work
55:48
right
55:48
but to know what a difference is making
55:51
in people's lives right
55:53
um and how incredible it can see because
55:56
i mean
55:56
i'm sure maricarmen will agree with me
55:58
but you've seen you see
56:00
over the course of the case right how a
56:03
client is just transformed as you walk
56:05
them through that process right
56:07
especially if you're
56:08
you're assisting a client getting a
56:09
protective order you know at the
56:11
beginning
56:12
you know the fear and the emotions right
56:14
it's just it's a lot
56:16
and then as they go through the process
56:17
and to see after the divorce
56:19
right um and after they get orders in
56:21
place for the children right
56:23
there you know to see and you know
56:25
especially if
56:26
they're doing counseling and all these
56:27
other services right
56:29
the change that happens right you see
56:31
them become more independent and opening
56:33
up
56:34
and and it's just it's incredible it's
56:36
very
56:37
it's very amazing how you know by
56:40
providing you know trauma informed
56:42
services right we can really help
56:44
empower clients and
56:45
and where they can go after that it's
56:47
it's it's such a blessing to get to do
56:50
this work
56:51
one of the benefits of being father time
56:52
here i can have many examples i can give
56:54
you only have three minutes left but i
56:55
can tell you some more about that but
56:57
i think i also want to talk to our
56:58
audience that if you're part of the
56:59
community that's suffering into a
57:00
disaster and you're taking on cases
57:02
you are part of the recovery i mean it
57:04
helps you i think personally and then it
57:06
helps the client
57:07
to be to come out of that you know
57:08
otherwise you see the community doing
57:10
something and involved and you're
57:11
wondering what can i do for my community
57:12
this is a perfect thing to do and then
57:15
when you realize a personal aspect as
57:17
the ladies have mentioned here
57:18
how your client will flourish you know
57:20
male female you know domestic partner or
57:22
whatever when they come out of this
57:24
it's a whole different person and i've
57:25
had i've never had a great story i've
57:27
got about law school but
57:28
i've had clients who actually become
57:30
board members for our organization
57:31
and are doing and thriving quite well
57:33
i've had the one that really struck me
57:35
once when i went over i think to buy
57:36
something somewhere before this covid
57:38
madness
57:39
and the cashier behind you know the
57:41
counter there she was young maybe in
57:43
you know 20 or so and she you know she's
57:46
looking at me and charging and stuff and
57:47
i feel like she wanted to ask me a
57:49
question
57:49
and i'm always kind of careful like you
57:50
know if i can ask a legal question
57:52
because they know who i am
57:53
and i go you know and she's like you're
57:54
working legal aid yeah i do
57:56
and my mom is so-and-so and i'm like oh
57:58
that was like years ago she was i was
58:00
the daughter that was there going with
58:01
you for that custody battle
58:02
you know i'm in college now and i wanted
58:03
to thank you for all that you've done so
58:05
far
58:05
and it just blew me away and i'm like
58:07
yeah i would have never known otherwise
58:08
you know she was but she was like really
58:10
ecstatic and happy
58:11
and she wanted to let me know how much
58:12
that happens and so you'll never hear
58:14
you know from all clients but it happens
58:16
and it multiplies many ways over because
58:18
you stop the cycle there
58:19
so that's a great benefit you get you
58:21
help in the recovery and you stop a
58:22
cycle in somebody's life so
58:24
that should provide some kind of benefit
58:26
for you
58:28
we've got a minute and a half in case
58:30
you don't want any uh get more tissues
58:32
and start
58:32
wiping off you know away your tears here
58:34
on these stories that i'm saying but
58:36
i don't know how you want to wrap it up
58:38
but that's just a great point um
58:40
sometimes it is a cycle sometimes you're
58:42
breaking generations
58:44
Of domestic violence and i'm sorry i'm
58:47
about to
58:48
cry because of the kids that's i want to
58:51
help
58:51
uh the survivor but i also know how hard
58:54
it is on the
58:55
kids and what a disadvantage that
58:58
traumatic household can have on
59:00
their education prospects their job
59:02
prospects
59:04
sorry no no they can take a toll on you
59:06
i think every legal aid
59:07
attorney knows that that i think the
59:09
point at the point you stop caring and
59:12
don't cry
59:12
is when you probably don't want to do
59:14
this anymore because it'd be becoming a
59:15
little callous so
59:17
um passionate about it it's good
59:21
uh so we got to finish on a
59:22
up beat note here okay now listen uh
59:25
thank you all this has actually been one
59:26
of the interactive uh
59:28
uh like quick podcasts we've done so
59:30
amber maricarmen apart from your
59:32
knowledge and what you provided i think
59:33
stuart and belinda here
59:34
have also just kind of made this program
59:36
just flow quite well
59:38
i think we might have some future ones
59:40
related to this issue you know more
59:41
specific issues as volunteers tell us
59:43
tell us but thank you not only for the
59:45
time but i think for the resources
59:46
uh belinda uh stuart anything you want
59:49
to add before we turn over to the ladies
59:50
and you know
59:51
in the podcast no i'm good i just want
59:53
to again thank both of you for joining
59:55
us this is a really fun one
59:56
uh a hard hard really tough subject but
59:59
really important
60:00
and we couldn't have ended better with
60:02
the with the uplifting story so again
60:04
thank you for joining
60:06
and i just wanted to add the resources
60:08
mentioned
60:10
uh in the podcast can be found on the
60:12
websites
60:13
the ladies mentioned and also at the
60:15
texas disaster legal help website
60:18
on the pro bono portal we do have a
60:21
knowledge resource library that has
60:22
templates information uh anything you
60:26
could possibly need as far as
60:27
information
60:28
wise and if you do sign up there's also
60:31
mentorship
60:31
live chat to answer questions if you are
60:35
interested in volunteering please check
60:36
out our site
60:37
thank you amber maricarmen anything you
60:40
want to
60:41
say here at the end well i just want to
60:44
thank
60:45
all three of you for you know inviting
60:48
us and making
60:49
this an issue that is uh important we
60:52
we can't do it alone and we certainly
60:55
would love to see the pro bono community
60:58
you know
60:58
come on board we will do and help and
61:02
assist and provide all the support
61:03
that's needed
61:04
uh because the work is challenging but
61:07
as you can
61:08
hear i mean from our experiences is that
61:11
sometimes it's much more rewarding than
61:14
than the challenge that we have
61:16
so uh thank you for for the opportunity
61:18
and for
61:19
um highlighting this important need of
61:21
our community
61:23
thank you thank you so much for having
61:25
us yes and i just want a second maricarmen
61:27
right
61:28
these cases are so important right and
61:31
especially with the pandemic right we've
61:33
seen the increase
61:34
in applications and need for this type
61:36
of work so we really want to encourage
61:39
um pro bono volunteers to help out
61:42
however they can right there's
61:44
there's a case for for whatever your
61:46
time commitments are we have
61:48
we have a case available for you so
61:50
please don't be afraid
61:52
um because there are lots of resources
61:54
and we're out we're here to help
61:56
there you go there you go auditioning
61:57
for my job again but i'll leave it alone
61:59
here at this point but
62:00
honestly thank you both of you so much
62:02
i'm gonna stop the recording at this
62:03
point and
62:04
thank you for your time