Frame of Reference - Profiles in Leadership
"Frame of Reference - Profiles in Leadership" and "Frame of Reference" - Coming together are conversational style shows with local, national, and global experts about issues that affect all of us in some way. I’m, at heart, a “theatre person”. I was drawn to theatre in Junior High School and studied it long enough to get a Master of Fine Arts in Stage Direction. It’s the one thing that I’m REALLY passionate about it because as Shakespeare noted, “all the world’s a stage and all the men and women merely players”. Think about the universality of that line for just a moment. Think about the types of “theatre” that play out around us every day in today’s world. The dramatic, the comedic, the absurd, the existential, the gorilla theatre (it’s a thing, look it up) that is pumped into our Smart Phones, TV’s, Radios, and PC’s every minute of every day.
Think about the tremendous forces that “play” upon us - trying to first discover, then channel, feed, nurture, and finally harvest our will power and biases in order to move forward the agendas of leaders we will likely never meet. Think of all these forces (behind the scenes of course) and how they use the basic tools of theatre to work their “magic” on the course of humanity. Emotionally charged content matched to carefully measured and controlled presentations.
With that in mind (and to hopefully counter the more insidious agendas), I bring you the Frame of Reference "Family" of podcasts, where the voices of our local and global leadership can share their passion for why and how they are leaders in their community and in many cases, the world. Real players with real roles in a world of real problems. No special effects, no hidden agenda, just the facts and anecdotes that make a leader.
And at the risk of sounding trite, I sincerely thank my wife Ann and my two children Elisabeth and Josiah for continually teaching me what leadership SHOULD look like.
Frame of Reference - Profiles in Leadership
Embracing Sustainable Growth and Integrity in Sales with Justin Janowski
Every year, my wife and I huddle together for an intimate ritual that shapes our journey ahead; this time, we're embracing 'sustainable growth' as our beacon for 2024. Within this episode, I unwrap this personal tradition, illustrating how we translate lofty annual goals into daily strides, and I share a touching reflection brought forth by AJR's "Bang"—a song that tugs at the heartstrings with memories of my late sister Linnea. As we venture through a tapestry of topics, we warmly welcome back Justin Janowski, a beacon of integrity in sales, whose wisdom blends a Christian ethos with staunch leadership, exemplifying how character and reputation can create a passive prospecting environment ripe for success.
Have you ever considered how the art of pre-framing in sales could align with your personal values and not just your profit margins? Justin Janowski, a devoted family man and Christian, joins us again to dissect this nuanced approach, emphasizing the importance of character in carving out a referable and prosperous business niche. Together, we dissect the concept of preparation beyond mere skills—delving into the realm of character development—and how our shared dedication to faith shapes ethical business practices to care for all involved in a transaction.
The episode is a mosaic of life's aspirations and confrontations, from the thrills of starting a business to the relentless pursuit of personal growth across all spheres. We discuss the exhilaration of entrepreneurship, the humility in success, and the role of God as a steady compass in the tumultuous seas of business. In a world marred by polarization, we also explore the art of fostering understanding across divergent viewpoints through the power of emotional intelligence, effective communication, and authentic leadership. Join us on this journey, and you might just find the courage to transform fear into a catalyst for growth in every facet of your life.
Thanks for listening. Please check out our website at www.forsauk.com to hear great conversations on topics that need to be talked about. In these times of intense polarization we all need to find time to expand our Frame of Reference.
Oh, hey, folks, welcome to another podcast, another episode, another whatever you want to call it in the new year of frame of reference, profiles and leadership, and I am continuing my penchant I will say in French for interviewing people that we interviewed last year for the first time and wanted to bring back some of the folks that, whether your favorites are mine, your favorites are not. I really, in this case, I'm taking my part in this deal and saying I get to have my favorites because it's my show. When you get your own show, you can have your favorites. Okay. So that's just the way this works. But the guy sitting across the screen for me today is somebody that I just enjoyed so much. Our first conversation, I think Justin, was in like November. Am I remembering that right?
Speaker 2:That sounds about right yeah.
Speaker 1:And Justin is. Well, you know what one of my new year's resolutions is. I don't want to screw up people's intros, so I'm letting people introduce themselves. So, justin Janowski, who the heck are you?
Speaker 2:Thanks for asking. I'm a husband and a father. I'm a Christian. I live in Milwaukee, wisconsin, and for business, I help Christian coaches optimize their business models, pricing and sales strategies so they can scale their income and scale their impact. I primarily focus on teaching people a high integrity sales process and we work with people in a number of different ways. One of them is that it will help the new coach really launch and grow their business, and another one is that seven and eight figure coaches who are highly successful will hire us to do sales directly for them. We call it partnership sales. So ultimately, if you're going to narrow it to a word, sales is my niche. Okay, that's what I do and I help people do it in a high integrity way that feels good.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, and we talked about that a bit in our first time together, that really, in fact, I was kind of rereading some of the information that you had and one of the things that I thought stood out right away in this ear sales process is what you call pre-framing and in your way of teaching this, it's not about saying, does this sound good to me? Which are a lot of salesmen, okay, what's my pitch, what's my angle? You know that kind of thing, but in your way of thinking, it does just feel honorable for me to say so, which I think, boy, now that I'm first, I'm wondering are you part Klingon? Because you know, honor is such a big thing in Klingon mythos. But you know, is there? How did that come about? How did you decide that? That was really kind of the mindset you wanted to set for me to get go.
Speaker 2:Man, I don't know Klingon, I'm not part Klingon but I think that somewhere along the lines like honor just became a word that I really resonated with and something that I talk about and teach some of our coaches and entrepreneurs we work with is what's called passive prospecting, and I believe in active prospecting and pursuing sales and business. But I think there are things that we can do in the way that we show up in our life and in the marketplace that will create passive income opportunities, will make business come to us, make us very referable in the marketplace and just make things easier. And one of those things is preparation, and like preparation from a number of standpoints one preparing like a skill set to be ready to bring to the marketplace and be of great value to people in our network. But another part of it is preparing aspects of our character, and so what I really think about is like how I show up and build my character, my reputation, and show up in the marketplace with integrity and what people believe about me.
Speaker 2:This is what makes me really referable or not. This is what makes me really easy to want to do business with or not. This is what makes people want to introduce me and connect me to people and spend time with me, and so all of that is really important to me being honest, being generous, being somebody who gives more, more, as much or more than I receive, being somebody who provides true value, who's authentic and who is honorable, who cares for both sides of the conversation, who cares as much about the other person as I do myself, who looks for the win-win in the marketplace rather than one side winning. The other side losing Like all of this I've found in my life is a reason why people do business with me, and it makes business easier. It opens doors and opportunities in a way that nothing like great character could otherwise do.
Speaker 1:You know I think about as you're talking about that. I keep thinking the old expression about I need to be able to look at myself in the mirror and I wonder if people will tell them I'm fine with the way I do things, and yet there is that kind of still soft voice that is inside all of us that's calling us to be better than we are. And I mean you can think of basic Christian principles, of do unto others as you would have them, do unto you. Right, we can do the cutthroat things that we have learned through whatever avenues to get ahead, or you can just try to accept that. You know what, as long as I'm a decent person, as long as I do the things that I would want to have done to me, I may not be as wealthy as a person. That is cutthroat. I don't know. That's not what's important, though.
Speaker 2:You know, family, friends.
Speaker 1:You know all the things that you're stated first off in your introduction right.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, and God you know. We asked Jesus what are the most important commandments? He said love God with all your heart, mind, soul, all your strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. And so you know, if that's the calling, that's on my mind a lot too, and that's honorable.
Speaker 2:It's like can I love God and can my work, my marriage, my life be an expression of God's love in some way which calls me to be honorable, like thinking about honoring the kingdom, honoring God in the way I show up, but then also can I love my neighbor as myself, which is making sure, like I believe in win-win or no deal in business. And so if I want to love my neighbor as myself, I need to care for their side of the deal just as much as I care for mine. It's not for me to give away all my stuff for free or hurt my business or create unfair boundaries or lack of boundaries and be taken advantage of, because I need to win too, to love your neighbor as yourself, and for that to be a good thing, you got to love yourself well. And so I really believe in making sure both sides, who are winning, win-win or no deal If we can't find a win for you and a win for me. Let's not work together, and that's okay too.
Speaker 1:What's the point so well, so we're doing our favorite things. Okay, I didn't give that up, but I've got a new slant for it now, especially with our new guest. So this time around it's a little bit favorite things with a look towards the future and a look back at the past. So I want to. The first thing I'm going to start out with is what is your favorite thing to think about when you need to get going for the new year? What was your favorite thing to kind of motivate you to jump into 2024?
Speaker 2:My wife and I do an annual planning session every year together and we've got several pieces to it, and so, like this gets me the right mindset for the new year, would it be okay for me to share the few pieces, in case people want to do this for themselves? Sure, okay, cool, we normally do it in December, but feel free to do it in January or February or whenever you want. You know you could do this in July. It would still be a great starting point. We look back first and we reflect, and we look back at the year that just happened and we say, like what are the biggest wins of the year? What are the things we want to celebrate? And we really like enjoy the successes, the great dates, the trips we went on, the fun restaurants we went to, the new relationships or friendships that were developed, the successes in business, whatever it was Like all the wins. We want to really like celebrate those in this moment. And then we take a look back at the year and we say what were the lessons we learned, the challenges we faced, the adversities that came in front of us, and like, how was God fathering us through that? What was he teaching us through that? And so that reflection is really valuable. And then we look forward to the new year and we talk about our values for the year. What are the values of the family that like make us a Janowski? Like what's it mean to be a Janowski? What's our family values? You can do this with your business as well, but you know, for ours, love our neighbor, give generously, be radical in, like, the way that we welcome people. You know, win, win or no deal. Some of these things are values of our family.
Speaker 2:And then we talk about our theme for the year. My theme for 2024 is sustainable growth, and so the theme oftentimes is one word or two words or a phrase, like something that could be like a rallying cry, so like, if you want to get in the right headspace, say like, what are you going to come back to again and again and again, I'm going to remember sustainable growth, sustainable growth, sustainable growth. And that's going to direct me to not do things that are like one-time hits or like all in for a moment but going to exhaust me later. I'm going to be burnt out, like how can I build in a way and grow in a way personally, professionally, et cetera in my business? That's going to be sustainable and be fun even when it's really successful, rather than like the fad diet for 30 days or 60 days. That'll give results. And you go back to what can I do to like, make like small changes that are lifestyle changes that could exist beyond that.
Speaker 2:And then then, after that, we talk about our goals for the year and then we break the goals down into daily and weekly tactics. What actions do I need to take daily and weekly to achieve those goals? And then we put the tactics into the calendar. Okay, it's like I schedule them on my calendar. Like, if I'm from a sales perspective, if I want to make a certain number of sales this year, I need to send messages to 10 new people every week and invite them to a conversation on Zoom.
Speaker 2:I know a certain number of those people are going to accept that call. We're going to have a conversation. A certain number of those people are going to become paying clients. A certain number of those people are going to send me referrals and that's going to, over the course of the year, add up to me achieving my goals. And so then I put that hour in on Mondays every week when I'm going to send those 10 messages. So then I don't think about it again. I put the date night in with my wife every week. I make it a recurring event. So I know we're going to get the babysitter, I know we're going to go on the date because it's literally in my calendar. It's important, so that's, that's the process that we go through and it really helps us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I tell my wife all the time, if it ain't in my calendar it ain't real sweetheart. I'm sorry it isn't. So if you want me to do something, just put it in my calendar and I'm all over it. So do you have a favorite? How about a favorite song to help carry you through that? Or you know other favorite lyrics or something that you can just bring to mind? That'll kind of bring you back into it.
Speaker 2:That's interesting. I don't know that I have a favorite song that I connect to that specifically and I'm not I'm not like as deep into like love of music as other people are. My wife loves music and like she ties music to memories and experiences and people in a way that's just not natural for me. I'm that way, maybe with movies and sports and things like that. I like music, but I don't have the same passion that she does. But the song that popped in my head immediately when you, when you said this was bang by AJR, it's saw I connect to my sister and so it inspires me.
Speaker 2:My sister passed away two and a half years ago, unfortunately 42 years old. Young teenage daughters at home like heartbreaking. The worst grief of my life was losing my sister. Her name was Linnea, just an amazing, amazing person. But I've got this special memory in her last months of life I had taken her to the doctor like she had to have been the doctor all day getting IVs and she was going through cancer and, just like her, potassium got really low. She was in bad shape. We spent the day together at the hospital and we got out like a couple of hours earlier than we expected. They told us midnight they let us go at 10 and we were so happy, we were like dancing our way out of the hospital practically. We got in the car and and we turned on the radio and the song by AJR bang started playing and it's about like going out with a bang.
Speaker 2:I go out with a bang bang bang bang and it's like it's it's like kind of rallying cry about going out with a bang and like living life to the fullest and giving your best. And that's how my sister lived her life. And like we like blared the music, we put the windows down and we drove with the music loud until we got to the freeway and the song ended and we we rolled the windows up. But I remember dancing and singing and having fun with her with that song in the car. It's one of the few songs that I connect to a person in a moment that inspired me and so I love that song bang by AJR.
Speaker 1:You know, I think you think talking about that, and I'm thinking to myself, one of my favorite things about God is how he will use things like that and it's just. I don't. I really don't believe in coincidence. I believe that, you know, god is just there and he can take little things that, you know, we have no concept of how important it is even at the moment, but I've just had so many times where it's like, wow, that was the perfect thing to hear right now. Or wow, I'm so glad I saw that movie. You know, I'm big with you. There's so many things in movies that just I go to at a certain time and it just it speaks there's, there's something there that resonates right. So, which brings me to what is your favorite movie of 2023 that you hope gets an Oscar.
Speaker 2:That's a good question. Okay, by the way, I pull up the bang lyrics really quickly.
Speaker 1:I want to give you just a couple of the lyrics. Okay, sure, go for it, go for it.
Speaker 2:It's been a hell of a ride, but I'm thinking it's time to go bang, bang, bang. Here we go and then, like it gets, it gets further into that and it's it's things like let's see, put your best face on everybody, pretend you know this song. Everybody, come hang, let's go out with a bang. I'm way too young to lie here forever. I'm way too old to try. So, whatever, come hang, let's go out with a bang. It's like it's it's songs like that. It's really catchy, it's really fun. Anyways, great lyrics.
Speaker 2:My favorite movie that deserves an Oscar. I love, I love the Academy Awards. By the way, I watch Oscars every year. Okay, my wife, my mom and I we all like predict every category who we think is gonna win, like we make a whole thing of it. Oh, wow, man, what's the best movie I saw this year? I haven't. I haven't seen the Oscar nominees yet. I haven't gotten deep into that. Okay, man, I know I saw some movies I loved.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sometimes the ones that we love the most don't even make the listener like what are you talking about?
Speaker 2:Right, of course. Yeah, of course, man. What am I? My mind's drawn a blank. I will say I recently saw Wonka. Okay, it was a remake of Willy Wonka. Timothy Chalamet is in it.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:I saw it with my kiddos and my mom and my wife and it was really fun. I love the songs. I love the performances. I don't it wouldn't be my choice if I had more time to think about it. My mind's drawn a blank on like the best movie I saw this year. Okay, but Wonka, with a recent movie I saw, that I did really appreciate and I thought was really well done.
Speaker 1:I saw a list not too long ago that I thought was really fascinating because it was every movie or every Oscar year from, I want to say, like 1991 to the present, so it was like the past 30 years or something, of movies and it was the movies that didn't win that should have. And it was really interesting because they had things. And the guy that wrote the article I thought, boy, he was making really cogent reasons for why the things that he pointed out and it was, you know, stuff that I had some of it, I had seen some of it. There's one that I started going to the library now and getting all the movies that he said should have won just to to, you know, get an opportunity to see if his taste and mine, you know, match up. Yeah, but you know, and it's everything from American hustle to gosh. What's the wine guys movie? He calls it the wine guys movie.
Speaker 2:Sideways, yeah, okay, by the way, that reminds me the holdovers, which was Paul Giamatti who was in sideways. That's one of the best movies I saw this year the holdovers.
Speaker 1:She and me.
Speaker 2:That's an Oscar, that one. I bet Paul Giamatti will be nominated but won't win Best Actor, okay, but I think that it's a deserving performance. The holdovers very, very good. The holdover Okay.
Speaker 1:So that's 2023's prediction from Justin Janowski, and if it doesn't win, well, it just shows that they don't have as much taste as we do. Actually, it's too interesting too, because he was talking about the dynamics of how the judging works and that he believes that in some cases, the best films don't win because there's too much split, so they can't come up with a. You know the real who should be the winner, because there's too much divisionism. So, okay, last question how about a favorite thing that you did you've already kind of alluded to this in 2023 that you want to do a lot more of in 2024.
Speaker 2:A favorite thing that I did that I want to do more of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it could be with your family. It could be a place you went to, an activity that you guys were doing, but something that you really. If you want to look back and say, yeah, you know we talk about percentage gains, right, you know I want to be, I want to have 5% more. You know gains in this. Is there something you know, an activity or a thing or a place, that you can say I want to have gone to that or done that 10% more in 2024?
Speaker 2:So I definitely want to vacation and take time off. Like I'm excited about designing and growing my business in that sustainable way that allows me a little more freedom, and so I really am looking forward to traveling with my wife, traveling with my whole family. Kara and I are going to go to the Bahamas this spring.
Speaker 2:I'm really looking for that just the two of us, and then we like to go to Door County, wisconsin. That's a place a few hours from us. It's a special place in the summer. I want to bring the whole family there again, like we did last year, and, just like, make travel more important and I'm also, like you know, this is beyond 2024, but really working the sustainable growth of my business for bigger trips in the coming years. We're going to be approaching my wife's 40th birthday in a couple of years and my 40th birthday the year after hers, and we want to go to Greece for her 40th. We want to go to Thailand for my 40th. We want to take the family to New Zealand the year before those two years, because that's where Kara grew up and lived for 11 years and her parents have a home there. Yes, we want to go there in 2025, I think.
Speaker 2:Oh no, maybe it is spring 2024. We mapped out this whole thing, but we've got big ideas around traveling and creating experiences together and as a family, and I really want to create the income, the freedom, the space to do those things and enjoy them well.
Speaker 1:And that's a great view. Good for you, that's an honorable goal.
Speaker 2:So how do I say that?
Speaker 1:Thank you, so okay, so let's go. You know, we went through all this stuff when we talked first time and I didn't. I realized afterwards I didn't get to like any of your suggested interview questions. That may be one kind of sidetrack and I thought, well, goodness gracious, the poor man sends all of this time putting together this wonderful list of questions and topics that we could talk about and I just threw it all to the wind and said, oh heck, I can do something else. So but I'm, I'm. One of my resolutions is to be truer to my guests and say you know what? Let's talk about the things that you're really experts in. So, starting out with the whole thing, when you launched your coaching business, when you first started out years ago, back when dinosaurs still roam the land, so what, what? What were those first few months like?
Speaker 2:besides trying to fend for your life against Tyrannosaurus Rexes and all that sort of thing, yeah, Before I answer that question, I want to tell you I love just authentic conversation, taking it where it goes. So, wherever it goes today, like, just ask the next curious question, I love like I feel like you keep me on my toes. I've got a company that I hired in 2023 to book me on podcasts. Okay, their their name is command your brand. They're really cool people. They've helped me get on more shows and they put together that beautiful list of questions for me and like they've really been supportive in like trying to to set that up. But I love the authentic conversation. So whatever comes comes Okay, and I appreciate. I appreciate you wanting to honor those questions, though. Anyways, I'll say my.
Speaker 2:I remember starting my business. I was working for another coaching organization, I was doing sales. I was earning six figures in income. My wife and I had just had our first baby, grace. She is now five and a half years old.
Speaker 2:My business is five years old and after she was born, my wife, who had worked at the Air Force Academy, owned a home before I even met. Her, super successful in her own right, was top of her class behavioral sciences. She was teacher of the year at psychology at the Air Force Academy, very successful woman. She decided that, because my income was earning enough at my job, she would stay home for the first year of Grace's life and trust me to provide, and we took three weeks off. I took three weeks off her paternity leave and on my second day back to work, I felt like God was calling me to quit that job and start a business. And I remember calling Kara and telling her about this, like epiphany, this moment, and her just like crying and be like what are you talking about? I'm like you know all of our security.
Speaker 1:I want to check your pockets when you get home Okay, there's got to be little pills in there somewhere, yeah Right. And when we?
Speaker 2:weren't talking about this. It seemed like an out of the blue moment for her and it was kind of shocking. And we took a month and we did talk about it, we did pray about it and we consulted people who I trusted and ultimately, like we both did come to the same decision that, like, doing this, starting faith to influence, taking this massive leap and entrepreneurship, was the right thing, even though it was scary. And those first few months were scary. I remember being excited and passionate and then scared and nervous, all at the same time, and I would toss and turn at night.
Speaker 2:I couldn't turn off my brain because I was working on the ideas of the business out of like a place of excitement and a place of fear and concern, like, could I make enough? Could I make this work? And I was just hoping to make 60 grand my first year to be like enough to remain in business. And those first few months were scary. But I had to surrender to God over and over. I had to let go and I had to trust God, like if he called me to this, if he wanted me to do this, he was going to open doors, he was going to provide opportunities. I just need to work, I need to take action, I need to be in motion.
Speaker 2:And then God would create the opportunity and speak through me and work through me, and did he ever? You know, I ended up collecting over 250,000 in revenue that first year. My goal was 60. And like Kara didn't have to like rush back to work or anything like that and we made it, and like it was just really special to see how God provided and he actually had over $100,000 in booked revenue within two and a half months and it was like at that point I knew that it was going to be okay, which was a really special experience.
Speaker 2:And I was working with Christian entrepreneurial men like in general on a number of different topics and things. It was kind of general life in business coaching. And as the business took off, some of those entrepreneurial men were coaches or wanted to be coaches and they were asking how did I do this? And you know what was I doing to make it work? And I realized it was around the business design and the pricing and the sales strategies and when I worked with those people, that lit me up and I felt like that was my genius and so I transitioned to working with Christian coaches, men and women after a period of time and like that's become really my niche that I love working in.
Speaker 1:So do you?
Speaker 1:You know one of the things that I think about when I think about that realm, you know, being really successful, being wealthy, being blessed, you know, by honoring what you're being called to do, right, do you find at all that it's difficult to keep God in the driver's seat?
Speaker 1:You know that you don't, because I've found, like I've sung a lot, I've been really musical involvement, churches, on worship teams, and you know, been told over and over again I have a wonderful voice, you know, and I you start to believe it yourself, right, because you hear yourself. Oh, I do have a good voice, you know, and it seemed like every time, virtually every time, that I think, wow, that sounds really good, it would be, you know, would come out of my mouth and I thought, okay, god, thank you for humbling me again, Thank you for getting my focus back in the right place. So I wonder if there aren't people that fall down that path. I mean, that's how I explained, in my own mind at least, the Jimmy Swaggards of the world. You know, where there's just hugely successful in a ministry that and obviously being used in you know, important, mighty ways, and yet you know, they get, they fall and it seems to always come down to arrogance.
Speaker 1:It seems to always come down to some, you know, some point along the line they started to think that they were a bigger deal than God in the whole scheme of things. So do you have a secret or a thing that you try to do that just maybe it's just being married? I mean, I find my wife is incredibly good at keeping me grounded, you know. So I don't know if you found that the curve.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think I think wives are very, very effective at making sure their husbands don't get too big of a head if they're a good wife you know, like a place. There's a few things. One I've got right behind me here Luke 1411. It's hard to see, maybe in this.
Speaker 1:No for everyone. Who was all?
Speaker 2:yeah, everyone who exalts himself will be humbled. Everyone who humbles himself will be exalted. That's a good reminder. And we teach. We teach something called the leadership arc to our clients and it's the process of like learning and development and it's going from ignorance, like in any topic if you want to be a great musician, you want to play the guitar, or you want to play basketball, or you want to your ballerina, and like you want to figure out how to like dance, any topic that we want to get better at golf sales we start on ignorance. We don't know, you know, and having kids like I recognize, like nobody knew how to do anything until you know how to do it right. And then we gain awareness of how to do it Somebody teaching us or telling us we learn how to do something. But just learning or gaining the awareness doesn't mean we can do it. You could tell me how to sing. I cannot sing well.
Speaker 2:What I would need to do to become somebody who could sing well and some people have more natural talents in certain areas, but I would need to develop it through a series season of transformation. And transformation is like where you put in the hard work, the hustle, the grind to become great at the guitar, to come great at singing, to become great at dance, to become great at a sport or sales or any kind of podcasting, whatever it is like. You need the effort, you need the repetition. That's the key to mastery. And through that season of transformation we can eventually achieve mastery, or at least one level of mastery where we're pretty good at the guitar, we're pretty good at sales, we're pretty good at dance or whatever it might be, and it becomes more natural, it becomes easier for us. But if we're humble, we can come back to ignorance and at that first level mastery say what do I still not know about sales? Or what now could I learn about golf? To improve my game a little bit more? And we take the next step of new awareness. Then we transform and implement that through repetition and we come even better at the guitar or sales or golf or whatever it is, and we reach a new level of mastery.
Speaker 2:Well, that's really a circle. That process is a circle and, like what we have right on there is in this process, if we want to be humble, humility is our ally. Humility allows us to reach the highest levels of mastery and get better and better and better and continue through that circle, that journey. And arrogance is our enemy Right, it's the enemy of growth, it's the enemy of mastery. The true master, it's been said, never sees himself or herself as one, and he's always looking for that next level and always humble enough to continue to learn and get better.
Speaker 2:And so I think that part of what's helpful for me is in the course of work that I do.
Speaker 2:I'm teaching, I'm training, I'm speaking all the time and I'm teaching the leadership arc and reminding myself, as I teach others, the importance of humility.
Speaker 2:I am telling my story again and again and going back and remembering what was like those first few months, tossing and turning and knowing that I couldn't do it but that God could do anything, and remembering that like I had to surrender to God over and over, with tears in my eyes, sometimes in fear, trusting that he was going to lead through me, he was going to build through me and that I just need to take the next faithful step.
Speaker 2:And so, like retelling those stories, teaching the content, including, like the value of humility versus arrogance, having this beautiful Bible verse behind me, which was a gift some of these things are good reminders and anchors and surrounding myself with the right people who reflect who I am and who I want to be is really important. Spending time with God is really important and so, yeah, no doubt, as you have more success, you see it happen all the time to people that get really arrogant, their ego takes over, they start treating people differently, and that stuff really triggers me. It doesn't feel good when I see it in others, and so that's helpful. Also, like it repulses me to the point that, like, I never want to be, like that Please, god, don't let me ever be like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think that's it Like we probably need to like.
Speaker 2:Teaching others how to be humble will help us be humble. Sure, that's what I'm talking about. Teaching sharing about is important spending time with God, surrounding ourselves with good, humble people who will be able to help others, who will put us in our place and give us the hard truth if we're making a mistake. All of that kind of is helpful.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've had a close friend of mine that we spend time every week just studying a verse or two or whatever. And lately it's been really interesting to me because we keep coming across these passages where you're kind of forced to realize the fact that, okay, who do we think we are? Anyways, who do we think we are? And it's always the same old, same old is. Christ comes with this example of serving others, loving others, caring for others more, more, more. There's never a point where he says, okay, you care enough, now, just doesn't. Or okay, you're loving enough, now, good, good job. Okay, let's move on to the next thing.
Speaker 1:And it's so neat, for me at least, to keep seeing the reality of I'm not there yet. I'm just not there yet, and there's yet more to do, there's more to learn, there's, you know, I can do better at this, I can be a better husband, I can be a better dad, I can be a better listener. I can be, you know. And that, to me, is so. I don't want to ever, I don't want to even be 80, 90, however long the Lord lets me do. I don't want to be at a point ever in my life where I stop saying I can be better at this. I want to be better at this.
Speaker 1:I want to, at the very least, I want to, be a better follower of Christ by the time I get through it all right, because that's the only thing I really have control over being better at, you know, when it comes right down to it right? So what would you say? You know? It also strikes me, as we're talking that arrogance is a huge enemy, and people tend to see fear as a real obstacle too that I'm afraid if I fail. I'm afraid that you know this just won't work out. I'm afraid that I won't bring enough money. I'm afraid what do you say to the? To that mindset that that gets people to conquer the fear and say I'm stepping out, I'm just stepping out and faith.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, I think the reality is, fear can be a massive, massive obstacle for people, but it's. We have an opportunity to choose how we want to respond to it. One of the things my wife teaches in psychology is that we can process something that's coming at us as and what is I want to get her language right we can either process it as a threat, like something that we're afraid of, something that's an adversity. We can process it as a threat or a challenge, and processing as a threat is like oh no, this is scary, this is going to hurt me. Or this is a challenge for me to grow, for me to find a new way forward, for me to be resourceful, for me to like develop my character. And can we like process it as a challenge, like something to take on, versus a threat, like something that's going to take me out, and so like that's something that she teaches. I think that's a valuable thing to consider and everyone is afraid. This is important to know. Also, like can we, can we normalize fear? Everyone's afraid of something. Everyone's afraid at some point in their life. Everyone who ever does anything great certainly encounters fear and adversity at some point along the line.
Speaker 2:The difference between the people who succeed and the people who kind of play small is how we respond to the fear, because courage doesn't mean that you're not afraid. It means that you are acting in spite of the fear. You're brave enough to move forward in spite of the fear and conquer it. And for me, like I remember as a new business, I was feeling so much of that fear, but not choosing for it to be a reason for me not to act. Um, instead choosing it for like to be brave, to be courageous, to act, and I had to pray all the time God, help me to be brave, god, help me to believe, help me to have that mustard seed of faith. And that's the cool promise of the Bible is like, we only have to have a mustard seed of faith and we can move them out.
Speaker 2:And so we don't need to be perfect in this, we just need to believe enough to take the next step and surrender to God and say, like God, help me get through this fear and, you know, give me your yoke, which is light. You know, take the burden away. Like, let me hand this to you. And and I think that, like a lot of that's important Like, recognize, like, fear is normal, it's okay. We can't control whether or not we feel afraid. We can control how we respond to it. Is it a threat or is it a challenge? Are we going to rise or are we going to play small and fall Sure, and can we, like, just trust God with it and be courageous and bold enough, with God's support, to continue to move forward when it feels scary?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it strikes me too. There's a you know the whole idea of neurobiology and how, when we, when we, act out of that first level of fear, you know the fight or flight or fame. You know that's all lower brain stuff. But you know, praise God, he designed us with an upper brain too, a forward you know cognitive brain that if you take the time which I teach people regularly in in classes here where I work on, you know harassment and how people feel when they're being harassed and how important it is to act against it, both for yourself and for others that you may be witnessing are being harassed.
Speaker 1:And I try to teach an acting technique that I've learned early on that what you need to do is just stop and breathe. Take the three seconds it takes to just in that, that breath, that three seconds to six seconds that it takes to do that is enough for the upper brain, the forward thinking, critical thinking, to get engaged. So, you know, teach people just basic relaxation technique, right, but we need that time to just get back to a place where we can think instead of just you know, stop, take a breath Totally, where are we going next? So what's the next step, guys? So yeah, so let's talk about that. It seems like a natural segue. What role does God play in your business?
Speaker 2:Well, one of the things that I know is God is the provider for my business, no doubt. He provides opportunities, he provides relationships, he gives abundantly to me, over and over all the doors that are open, the sales that are made, the revenue that's generated, like it's a provision from God, it's an expression of his fathering. So he's a father to me in my business, he's a provider to me in my business, for sure. And then he's also, you know, the he can also carry me, like where I need to surrender and let go, when I'm feeling weak, when I'm feeling scared, when I'm feeling uncertain or not enough, like I can fall into his arms and surrender and like trust him to carry me over the finish line that day or that week or in that task. So he shows up for me in that way and then I just I try to pray consistently to God to help me have success in my business, to make more sales, to grow my revenue, but then to do good with the blessings that he gives me, to be more generous to my family, to be more generous in my community, to support my clients well, to love my team members well, to provide greater tithes to my church and to be more of a steward with what God gives me and so, like you know, I want to trust him to act through me in generous ways as well.
Speaker 2:So, like in that way, like he's, he's that kind of support too, and then my prayer is just that he'll speak through me, you know, and that he'll lead through me, that he'll help me find the right words, help me grow, help me remain humble, et cetera. So it's like he's, he's the, he's coaching me, he's fathering me and providing for me, he's carrying me when I need him, and and he's leading me. And, and you know, there's, I'm sure, plenty of times when I put my desire, my direction, ahead of his, or I think something's from him. It's really for me it's hard to distinguish that right. So I'm sure I fall short of this all the time. But my intention is to allow God to lead me in my business and especially lead me to my character in the way I treat people in my business.
Speaker 1:And years ago, a pastor friend of mine said, you know that we have to always remember that God is much more interested in our character than in our circumstances. So and you know, that was that's been really key to me to when people are like I can't believe this was happening, why is this so terrible? Like well, I think you have to figure out what's God trying to build in you. You know what, what's important about this circumstance that you can learn from or that you can grow from, or you know that you can learn to trust more, right? Um, so I'm trying to think, if there's a way because I'm trying to be sensitive to the time and sensitive to where everybody's going today Um, if you, if you were to to get a new client today, or you know any, any time you get a surge of clients, is there a favorite thing or a thing that happens early in the process where you feel like this is really going to go?
Speaker 1:Well, this is, this, is I'm the right person at the right time with this, this right for this right client? Do you have a? Is there a vibe that you look for? That or that you feel people can use as kind of their internal compass? Yeah, if you will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I feel it on the sales call. So it's before they've agreed to become a client. Okay, I feel like, oh, this is a good fit, this is the right client, this is somebody I want to work with, and there's a number of things that happen. You know, the way that we teach sales is it's asking questions more than it's giving answers. Okay, um, you know, I really get to a season of discovery, or a series of discovery questions in a sales conversation where I get to know this person very well.
Speaker 2:And for me, because my expertise is coaching businesses, I get to know their business very well and like where they're at right now. And then I ask a lot of questions about their vision for the future and what they really want their business to look like. And then I ask them questions about the challenges they're facing, the things that feel like they're standing the way of, like getting from where they're at where they want to go, like what's the biggest problem. And as I learn about their business and where it's at, I learned about their current sales process. I learned about their pricing, I learned about how many clients they have, I hear their income goal. I find out the biggest problem, that that they're trying to solve, that they believe will open the door to them achieving their income goal or whatever other goals that they have around their business. Like, as I asked these questions, I get to know them Like I feel I feel a fit from a couple of standpoints.
Speaker 2:One's like an intellectual fit, like I get it, like I see the problem more clearly than they do and I, because of my experience in sales or in business, design building, the clients I've worked with, et cetera, to me it's a problem I know can be solved and for them it might feel like a really challenging, difficult problem.
Speaker 2:If it was easy they'd probably have already solved it. And so when I can see intellectually, like, okay, the problem they have, the goal they want to achieve, I can help them conquer that problem and I can help them achieve that goal. And I just know it from an intellectual standpoint, this is somebody who I can help. It's a problem I've solved before that part happens. But there's also, like this heart piece where I just feel connected to them in this call and I mean I feel a likeness and a care for them, like I want to help this person. This is somebody who can be a great coach a great leader, have a great impact, and they just need to figure some of this business stuff out so they can get out of their own way and serve the people God's called them to serve. Like when I'm excited to help them bring their business to life and support this person's dream, along with intellectually knowing I can help, that's kind of the winning combination for me.
Speaker 1:It sounds like I know in your materials that you had provided for Commander Brand and then that passed on to me. You talk about rapport and there's a myth about rapport, which is finding common interests, so the person likes you, and I have to commit. I've fallen into that myth before, but then the truth is that rapport equals deep listening beyond the person's words. So are there? What does that look like? I mean, when you're really doing deep listening with someone? What does that mean to you? How does that work with you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, what I recognize is for people to feel comfortable to make big decisions, to make big changes, to hire me as a coach, to receive coaching and leadership, whatever it is like in any conversation of influence. If people, people's human nature is to remain the same, to remain comfortable, to remain safe, to survive, not to thrive Like that's how our brains kind of function is like, how can I survive, how can I remain safe? Usually change hire and a coach taking massive action, doing anything different, is not safe, and so people don't want to do that like in their, in their nature, and so what we need to do is create an environment that is safe enough for people to be willing to like express their deepest desires and be willing to commit to a different way of behaving, different way of acting, change that will produce a greater result and help them achieve what they want. And to create a safe environment. I know I need to communicate in a way that the other person can receive, and so what I'm thinking about in rapport is like I'm paying attention in the opening of the conversation to how does this person communicate, what's their volume, what's their pace of communication? What's the emotion that they're bringing to the conversation right now. Are they feeling really good? Are they feeling down? Are they scared? Are they nervous? Are they excited? I want to meet them where they're at emotionally. I want to meet them in their volume. I want to meet them in their pace of communication. I want to pay attention to the kind of words that they use and make sure I'm communicating the same language so that we understand each other. I'm not trying to sound smart. I'm trying to meet them in where they're at right now in their journey, and make sure I'm using common language. All these things just make it feel like we're part of the same tribe and we're connected and I get them and it's safe for them to be them.
Speaker 2:A simple example of this is something as simple as somebody coming to the call and asking that opening question and paying attention beyond the words. They're like I'm fine, but you can tell when somebody is and isn't fine. If I listen beyond the words okay, cool, what's fine, look like for you what's been happening today Then I'm like oh, I've had the busiest day of it. Back to back to back to back. I had that conversation with you today. You were like oh, you know what, let's just get started, let's get right into it. Let's save your 15 minutes today and get you back to a little bit of extra space. I'll take some time. I'll get home to my dog and I'll do this.
Speaker 2:And that you immediately met me where I was at emotionally. You found a way to connect with me and be like, oh, why don't I give you some extra time? I'll take some extra time. That sounds great for both. We're immediately more connected because you honored where I was at emotionally, coming to the call, and what my needs were. When you're joking around and laughing and having a good time, I'm going to joke around and laugh and have a good time a little bit more in the conversation, but somebody else is really direct and intense. I'm going to get to the point really quick and be a little bit more direct and intense because that's what they're going to value. That's what's going to make them feel like, okay, this feels good for me. I want to find my authentic leadership voice, but I also want to communicate in a way that the other person can receive.
Speaker 2:I recognize my voice has range and volume, pace and the energy of how I communicate and how silly and playful I am versus how serious I am in the emotion I can bring. I can meet somebody where they're at and that's going to make it safer than to make a big decision and to feel comfortable enough to share truth with me.
Speaker 1:Here's the big deal. We always talk about what's the big legacy or what not, but I'm looking in my vision. This is a difficult thing because I look at 2024 and some people and I believe their historical assessment is correct because they are studying it more than I have time to do, but they talk about this we live in the most polarized times since the Civil War. As you're talking about this thing, I'm thinking, boy, I wish our political leaders would take your coaching classes or would go through the process, because we are working so hard to divide one another.
Speaker 1:I have discussions with my friends of mine that are big supporters of one side or the other side. I argue regularly like guys, guys, guys, do you really think that this political personality is worth dividing yourself from family, friends, from your heritage, whatever? You really think that? That's what? I can't get many of them to recognize, that. No, you're right. How do you see this playing out? How can we? Is there something that we as life coaches, that we as people that care about the world around us, the people around us, the world that we leave for our children? Is there something that you look at and say this would be? If I could prescribe one thing. This would be what I would do to coach us to a better place.
Speaker 2:It's interesting. What I shared before is we want to communicate in the language that the other people can receive, for them to feel like oh, this is my tri, I get this person, they get me, I feel connected because of the likeness of how we might communicate Politically. They're communicating in a way that aligns with their supporters. People are on their side. The more intense they are on their side, the more somebody's like yeah, that's what I'm talking about. That's how they connect with and rally their side to the cause. But they're doing the exact opposite to everybody else who doesn't believe those things. Because that kind of language communication oftentimes the communication of hate when people disagree is so polarizing, it's so distasteful that they're turning everyone else off. Who's going to say no, thank you, I'm not going to listen to that anymore. I'm not interested in that.
Speaker 2:What would be nice would be, instead of communicating with the language of hate, if we could communicate with a language of respect and appreciation for the other person. Could we communicate with a language of curiosity, and so, instead of immediately hearing how somebody else feels and going into anger, could we say interesting, even when we totally disagree with what they're just interesting. Why do you feel that way? How long have you felt that way? Where do you think that comes from? Why is that so important to you?
Speaker 2:Could we have that curiosity in dialogue and as we honor them and validate their experience of the world and why they think the way they think, we give them the floor for them to feel received, seen, heard, understood and how they got to where they got? We don't have to agree with them to understand them, but if we understand them in that communication and we're willing to be curious, then maybe they'll be interested enough to be curious about why we feel the way we feel. Maybe that'll open a more interesting dialogue. Now I am guilty of getting this wrong. What I get frustrated at is either side, left or right extreme. When there's a conversation of hate, when there's this angry conversation, I'm just like the division angers me enough that I make mistakes and how I respond to that.
Speaker 1:I'm with you on that. One brother, oh boy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm more of a moderate and the middle kind of guy. On some of these I can see both sides, but the way other people communicate about it triggers me. But could I in those moments even say interesting, why do you say that like that? And could I learn about them and understand them, Even if I don't agree, understand how they got to the point that they got to? And with that level of understanding and curiosity and respect, might they respond to me in that way, in that same manner, when I have something to share? And could we have more of a dialogue like that? We're not going to solve the problem overnight, but if more of us try to show up with curiosity and set judgment, we could take steps in the right direction.
Speaker 1:There's a key question. I believe for a while now that what the media is doing, in focusing on media, can objectively report who, what, where, when, how. They can show you those things, because it's pretty, it's objective. It was in Milwaukee. It was 4.15 in the afternoon. They showed up in clothing that was blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 1:The why is the thing that really sets us off, and when we continue to let someone else define the why's for us instead of being wise enough to ask why ourselves? So I like that. So let's put it out to the listeners today. Let's put it out to everyone Ask why Be curious this year, in 2024. Don't let something that just angers you viscerally, at the core, be the reason for you. Don't seek to understand, right? Yeah, that's that. There's that old saying, isn't it? Most of us listen with the intent to respond instead of with the intent to understand. So, but yeah, so my guest today has been Justin Janowski, who now I've talked with twice and all I can think of is can't we talk again? But I hope you feel the same way. I'm kidding myself. Oh God, I'm glad this is over.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thank you. So thanks so much, justin. You are the CEO, the owner, the founder, the head muckity muck faith to influence, right? Which people can go to faithtoinfluencecom, if I remember right.
Speaker 2:Yes, right, and find out more.
Speaker 1:There's a wonderful poster behind you. Faith to influences, rules of engagement, lead with love. Be curious, Some of those things we've talked about, right, so I I encourage you folks. It's faithtoinfluencecom, Just spell it out. So anything in particular you would like people for 2024 to know about faith to influence and what you're going to be doing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean we. We just launched a new membership program. It's only $75 a month and we have a weekly prayer and networking call for Christian coaches and entrepreneurs. We've got a content library of 30 amazing trainings on how to design, launch, grow and scale a coaching business, and a quarterly planning session where we go through this, similar to the planning process I shared with you earlier. Okay, we've got a private Facebook group.
Speaker 2:We send a cool gift box in the mail with a bunch of really interesting things for our clients, so that's something I'm really excited about. We've got 80 Christian coaches in there. We just launched two weeks ago, so it was a fast launch with some amazing entrepreneurs, and if anybody wants to be a part of that, you can find out more about that at faith2influencecom. We can also give you a 10 step copy of our sales process for free there, and we've got a podcast and other free resources, so we'd love to support you for free. We've got higher ticket programs where we go all in with people, but this new Christian coaches Academy our new lower ticket program is something I'm really excited about.
Speaker 1:Sounds wonderful. Well, many blessings. Good bye, thank you for your 2024 and, to your family, hope you get to travel all those places you want to travel, and your family just becomes so blessed by all of it that you look back at 2024 and say, man, I couldn't think it was possible, but 2024 was better than 2023. I can't wait for 2025.
Speaker 2:Right, that should be one. Yeah, thank you, ralph.
Speaker 1:Take care. Thanks for listening folks. Thank you all for listening to us on frame of reference, profiles and leadership. Join us next week when we'll have someone, I hope, as fun and interesting and intelligent and wonderful and warm as this week's guest.
