Episode 1: Conversations that Matter - Claire Decarteret, Gallup

Welcome to the OpenBlend podcast, and our new series, Conversations that Matter. 

As we kick season 2 of our podcast off, we wanted to reflect and celebrate the power of great conversations. As part of this new series, OpenBlend CEO and Founder Anna Rasmussen will sit down with individuals who deeply believe, like us, in the power of conversation. Each story will be unique - some personal, some professional, but all incredibly insightful. 

In episode 1, Anna sits down with the fantastic Claire Decarteret, Managing Director EMEA for Gallup, a world-renowned analytics and advice firm. Their conversation explores the data and results behind Gallup's 5 different types of effective conversations that we should be having in the work place. 

Join us on social to keep up with all things OpenBlend.

Follow us on LinkedIn, where you can connect with our Founder & CEO Anna, and our Chief Revenue Officer, Jordan. Have you got a question for us that you'd like answered? Email hello@openblend.com today.

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Transcript

Anna Rasmussen 0:06  

Hello, and thank you so much for joining us. Our guest today is Claire DeCarteret, MD of Gallup for EMEA. So I'm sure you've all heard of Gallup, but just in case, Gallup provides research, analytics andQ2 management consultancy, to organisations all over the world. And as well as that Gallup owns the brilliant Clifton Strengths Assessment as well. So, Claire works with organisational leaders and Gallup teams in the EMEA region to study and help create more exceptional workplaces. And that coupled with her belief that every workforce has a responsibility to strive to enhance the lives of their people, I couldn't be more excited to talk to her today. So, we could cover many different topics. But today, we're going to focus and really hone in on Gallup's five conversations that drive performance. And the why the what and the how surrounding that. So, thank you so much for joining us today. Maybe we can kick off with you telling us a little bit about yourself, and maybe what's what you find most important about your role.

Claire DeCarteret 1:25  

Absolutely Thank you so much. And I'm really excited to be here and this conversation with you today. So looking forward to it. I, I guess to your question, what is most important to me, and my role is really studying excellence, studying excellence in organisations, excellence in people, what makes individuals teams and companies and organisations thrive. And as you mentioned, you know, I fundamentally believe that work can be net positive or net negative. And as leaders, we have this responsibility to make sure it's net positive, it's a pretty miserable time in your life, if you hate going to work. And it's it's not serving you or boosting you. And that cascades to your family, and the way you show up in other areas of your life. So I think this is something that's really important. And just on that the organisations that do this really well, they have better results also. So it's not just about creating happy workplaces. It's about creating happy workplaces that actually are winning that performing and getting the results.

Anna Rasmussen 2:42  

And that and that's the killer line, isn't it the ROI? And can I can I ask you because I mean, you've worked for Gallup for quite some time. And you're the importance of your contribution to people, the workplace is that enhanced over time, it just it seems so incredibly relevant right now everyone really needs that kind of support, and investment and belief that their organisation is striving to get the best out of them and to support them to thrive. Have you seen that evolve since throughout your career at Gallup? 

Claire DeCarteret 3:18  

Very much so. So certainly in the last three years, it's really catalysed a focus on employee well being and having a healthy culture and healthy organisational culture. And I've been really fortunate because I have been account for a long time, 16 years, but I started in Sydney, in our Australia office and worked across Asia and Pacific markets before I came to Europe, working across Europe, Middle East and Africa. So I've seen such a range in cultural, you know, cultural approach to the workplace, and life at work and the impact of work on life. You know, when the well beings research that we did, which was about 15 years ago, now, when that first came out, we really thought it would take off, but leaders were just not ready for it yet. It was 10 years ahead of its time. Over the last three years. What we've seen is through the pandemic, it's really catalysed this focus on wellbeing this focus on really sustainable, healthy and thriving workplace cultures, because leaders know that this impacts the bottom line, and it impacts customers. Yes, so it really is more important now than it ever was before and there's a readiness for it, too.

Anna Rasmussen 4:47  

Yeah, well, what a fantastic role that you play in all of that as well. brilliant job. So let's move on to the topic of today which is around conversation. So managing protocol sessions that could we start with you sharing why? Gallup embarked on the research that stands behind your statement of one meaning conversation a week meaningful conversation a week, what was the kind of the drive what we as an organisation, what were you? What was the motivation to do that?

Claire DeCarteret 5:20  

Well, many people know about the polling work that we do at Gallup. So Gallup poll. So years ago, we joined forces or Gallup poll, which was a company that knew how to ask the right questions. Really good questions, joined forces with an organisation called Sri or was bought by ESRI that was focusing on what made people thrive what made teams and organisations thrive. And so over the last decades, we've been studying engagement at the organisational level and at the country level. So we produce every year a state of the global workplace report, studying just that what makes people thrive at work, what what separates some organisations from others, when it comes to performance and engagement. One of the most fascinating pieces of data that emerged from the last decade of our research, when we look at engagement and engagement, we define because there's many different definitions of encouragement out there, but we define it as the emotional connection that employees have with the workplace. It's emotional and psychological. And it's different to rational satisfaction. It really is an emotional effort that elicits people to give discretionary effort to think of better ways of doing things to innovate. Though we've been studying this for for decades, when we started to look at it, we noticed one thing that in every organisation, there were work groups with really high engagement, and there were work groups with low or mediocre engagement. So it wasn't necessarily about the macro-organisation. When we looked a little bit further, we started aligning the work groups up to understand these what we call micro cultures. So in every organisation, their work groups at the top and their work groups, right across the range, what was it? What was that variation? What caused that variation? And our biggest finding was that it was the manager. It was the manager. So we've even got a book called, it's the manager for that exact reason that the biggest variation in any organisation when it comes to employee experience, employee engagement, was the manager. So it wasn't which team is that in which geographical location, It was the local manager. So we dug even deeper into that to understand well, what was it that these exceptional managers did differently to the rest.

Anna Rasmussen 8:01  

And then these exceptional managers are people that have got highly engaged highly performing teams. So there's the link, is the link there between the engagement and the performance?

Claire DeCarteret 8:10  

Absolutely. Yes. It's it's work groups where the engagement is high, and the business outcomes are high as well. Okay, perfect. Yes. So and that's when we dug down and we said to our senior scientists, what, what is it that they're doing differently? And through the data, it appeared that they were having the right kind of conversations, right? To quantify it really simply, they were having at least one meaningful conversation a week. Okay.

Anna Rasmussen 8:41  

Fantastic. Sort of light bulb moment. Yeah.

Claire DeCarteret  8:45  

It's, it's a big lightbulb moment. And at the same time, it's really practical and accessible because now there's a formula. If we have one, meaningful, intentional conversation a week we can boost performance and productivity and engagement. 

Anna Rasmussen 9:03  

That's such an important finding, because then because you're taking an unknown into more clarity, more clarity, you know, deeper clarity, deeper clarity, and you've just pinpointed one thing that if a manager can have one meaningful conversation a week with each employee, then that will have fundamental difference on the outcome, the outcome, the output of that particular team is fantastic finding really exciting. Can you define what meaningful means? Hmm,

Claire DeCarteret 9:33  

that's a good question. And that might mean something a little bit different to everybody. When we look at what the best managers do differently, that conversation will be net positive, though it will provide some kind of feedback, it will acknowledge contribution. It acknowledges the whole person, not just the work, so the individual feels cared for seeing seen and heard. So it's kind of the art and science of an effective conversation to listen, acknowledge, recognise care, those are the foundations of what we would call a meaningful conversation. And the funny thing is, is that it sounds really simple. And most people should be having a conversation a week with their direct reports. But it often doesn't happen. And sometimes the conversation happens, but it isn't intentional. So it lacks focus, and therefore it lacks the impact.

Anna Rasmussen 10:37  

Yeah, and I think what's really interesting, you said there is actually there's the meaningful aspect of is, is the perception of the individual, not the manager, as well as is that that was the study was it? So you were looking at the employees of that manager, and they felt cared for seen and heard it was meaningful in their definition of it? Which is why it means something slightly different probably to to everyone, because we're all slightly different. Okay. Fantastic. That's, that's brilliant. So what, what? And then you have a course that Gallup runs, which is called last to coach, which is the result of these findings, is that right? So you know, I'm sure there's a multitude of different interventions that you've created as a result of these findings. But I'm very interested to sort of go down into the boss to coach programme that so many managers are lucky enough to be put through, which is great. And on there, you talk about five types of conversation. Could you talk to that? Could you bring one of those five and why they exist?

Claire DeCarteret 11:47  

Yes, definitely. So yes, it's the boss to coach journey, both practical but also transformational in terms of mindset of the role of the coach or the manager. And in studying the best managers, we found that they were all more or less having a cadence of consistent conversations that were all different and fit for purpose at different times. But they were happening frequently. And I often say engagement is a contact sport. So it doesn't happen in the absence of conversations. And these managers had really intentional, different conversations for different purposes. So if we think about the manager toolkit being conversations, and there were five in the toolkits, okay. And I can talk about those, if you like, it just said, That'd be fantastic. Yeah, broadly. So most people listening, I hope, nodding their head, because they're probably already doing these kinds of conversations. So there are two bookends, I call them really moment in time conversations. They don't happen as frequently, but they're quite pivotal in when they happen. The first one is called the role and relationship conversation. This conversation normally happens when someone takes on a new role, or a new responsibility when there's a change at the beginning of a project or the beginning of the year. And it's really the anchoring conversation. And this one is all about clarity of expectations. What does excellence look like? What do we expect of each other? What do we expect with the role? How can you use your strengths to serve on that role? So it's a really juicy foundational conversation. And really important, because it's, it's setting the way for every future conversation with that with if, if clarity of expectations is not there, it's really hard for people to achieve in the way that's expected of them. And it's an absolute basic need at work. And yet, only 50% of the population can strongly agree that they know what's expected of them at work.

Anna Rasmussen 14:08  

Really. 50% Okay, fascinating. I love I love the way you call that anchoring and anchoring conversation, because it is it's like you know, we're here, it's very often going to be a new relationship I would imagine in there as well. So that rapport building, putting it all down, this is how I work. How do you work, you know, setting the boundaries of the relationship as well as clarity on expectations. Okay, yeah, really, only 50% of people can say that they have that set up

Claire DeCarteret 14:34  

Gosh, right. And that went backwards through the pandemic. So what we saw is that there's a growing confusion around work, and that that obviously, is complicated by hybrids, by digitization by you know, a multitude of different factors, but an alarming 50% of people are not clear on what's expected. Have them. And some of the questions you just talked about, you know, what's expected of me what's expected of you a really perfect questions for that conversation? Because a question that we often teach people to ask is, what do you think is expected of you in this role? And then they can talk about what they believe the role to be, you can identify gaps, the role of the project or the needs, you can identify gaps, and that's the opportunity to close them. And that seems so simple. And yet it is so often overlooked. And it's just that people are starting off from different starting points. 

Anna Rasmussen 15:44  

That, yeah, that's a fantastic open coaching question, isn't it? And I think, make them in that mindset, that shift of boss to coach, I think sometimes can be quite daunting for managers. But when you when you're given the kind of examples of the kind of questions that you could be asking, actually, it makes that journey so much easier, you know, what do you think the expectations are for you in this of you in this role? And then you just need to sit back and listen, don't you and then work with what they're coming back with? And as you said, fill the gaps. I guess, that's a brilliant, brilliant opening question. Okay, so then that's one conversation and just for just for in case sort of listeners queering, how long, which is kind of the ideal. manages a time short. And I think, you know, you have best practice, and you have your ideals, and then you can mix that into the day to day where managers are pulled left, right and centre. And you know, everything's very, very task focused, those kinds of conversations, obviously, we've spoken about the importance of the anchoring, how long do you think they should be? Putting aside for those kinds of conversations?

Claire DeCarteret  16:54  

I would say 60 minutes. But again, it's quite agile, 60 to 90 minutes, if you really setting things up with a new relationship, but it could be done in parts as well. I don't think there's a hard and fast rule to this. It's as long as that conversation is happening, and that those foundational elements are there. It works.

Anna Rasmussen 17:19  

Yep. Perfect. Okay, brilliant. And then the conversation type number two,

Claire DeCarteret  17:26  

yes. So, so I might bounce to the other end of the book. Yes. Your book. Yeah. Sorry, my book is, because it is it's another moment in time critical conversation that, honestly, most people are doing. And that's the Progress Review. Okay. And that could be an appraisal and end of year review, whatever it is that your organisation calls it, but it's an opportunity to reflect and review progress over time. So it's creating that space to say, what did we accomplish? What did we learn? How do we take this forward? So it typically would happen at the six month and the 12 month mark, okay, in a lot of organisations. And it's, it's really carving that space out to reflect on key learnings. So often, through the course of time and the day to day work, we forget about what we're accomplishing. on a macro level, you know, and I often ask people to stand, imagine themselves standing at the end of the year. What would they like to say that they've done? Though? They're They're almost future projecting, what what do I get out of it? What have I accomplished in over this period of time, this progress review allows the person to sit with their manager and actually reflect on some of those, those accomplishments, those key experiences, those big learnings, those, you know, important failings, all of that. So it's a critical conversation. It's already happening. In most organisations. The problem that we found through our performance management research was if it's, if it's the only conversation that's happening, yes, people turn up to that really anxious both the manager and the individual doesn't know where they stand. We're bringing up information from six to 12 months ago, it can feel punitive and judgmental, nor future focused. So this one only works if you're having regular ongoing conversations, but through the course of the year, which I'll talk about in a minute, but let me just see what you think of that conversation. The Progress Review. Yeah,

Anna Rasmussen 19:39  

but no, I think that is, but I think a lot of I think a lot of people go into those conversations if they are only you know, if there's on a six to 12 months between that and the last one with this kind of fear of this recency bias. I mean, I'm you know, it's, gosh, I can't really remember what you know I did last week, let alone one to my team members Did you know Over have achieved over the last six to 12 months? So? Yeah, I think that it's I completely agree that the continual conversation and that's just more of a roundup exercise with a slightly different lens, I think is really important. And, of course, as well, everything that you're talking about is about creating a more positive and a better environment. And actually the one you just described where there's this huge gaps in between, that's a negative experience. So that's going to work completely. So everything, all the good aspects that you've created, if you stick one of those in, then that's obviously going to take all the all the good work away.

Claire DeCarteret 20:42  

And I think, unfortunately, still happening very frequently that that conversation, the review, is typically escape, goats have failed performance, or it's an opportunity to focus on what needs to get better. And it's when we studied it, we found that it didn't actually develop performance. And so there has been a shift even just in the language, shifting it from performance management, performance achievement, or performance development, something that's more developmental in its approach. But you're absolutely right, this one can only be effective if there's been ongoing conversations in the middle. And that's where the the other three conversations come in. In the middle of those two critical bookends, there's what we call ongoing coaching. And the best managers and leaders are having regular ongoing conversations, not once a year or twice a year, but ongoing conversations about goals, about performance, about well being about what's getting in the way, about cost correction and and fast feedback. And there's three distinct conversations within that ongoing conversation group in the middle. We call them and some organisations change the language around this, but we call them the quick connects the champion, and the developmental coaching. And while they're quite distinct in nature, that can all merge as well. But to help frame it to help frame it, the quick connect happens in the moment, it's work based, it's before or after a meeting. It's before or after a shift or any kind of work. So it's usually tactical or practical work based conversations that happen organically. Okay. Yeah.

Anna Rasmussen  22:50  

So I was just gonna I was just gonna, sorry, you mentioned before, and actually, the more we're talking through these five types of conversations, the more I'm remembering that what the importance, you mentioned intentional conversations. So it's just around the quick, the quick connect conversation. So you know, you might be walking out walking out of a meeting or travelling somewhere together, or you've just finished your shift or whatever that might be. How can Matt, how can you make that intentional?

Claire DeCarteret  23:16  

So when a manager masters the art of this quick connects, then the employee always knows that they're on the right track. Okay. It's also an opportunity to acknowledge and recognise in a really timely way or to cause corrective if that's something that needs to be done. So imagine that we finished a meeting, I might say, how do you think that went? What could we have done better? Is there anything you would have changed? If you do it again, you know, if five is your very best work in one is work that you're not happy with? What would you rate that activity? So it can be as intentional as that. Yeah. Or it can be feedback about that particular thing. Sorry, Anna? No, I

Anna Rasmussen 24:11  

just think the, as you said before, like, what a meaningful conversation is, is that individual feels cared for seen and heard. And actually, if you if a manager simply goes into that quick connect with that intention. That's great, right? Yeah. Okay, brilliant. I understand that one. So then the check in

Claire DeCarteret  24:30  

the check in. So the check in is usually more of a structured or scheduled check in though diarized time that's allocated for the individual and the manager to connect. Though, it's probably more of the traditional check in that most organisations are probably doing, it can happen on a weekly basis, or every two weeks. If you're doing lots of quick connects This conversation is really an opportunity to listen, it's an opportunity to ask questions to get curious to listen, and to, to really then listen to acknowledge, listen, to care, listen to act. So that's dedicated time that you would schedule with your employee or your direct reports, or your associates just for them. And that, and

Anna Rasmussen  25:32  

does, it just strikes me with that sort of the physical environment? So with the quick connect, you know, you're on the move, you could be convinced I visualise that with the check in that's kind of you've gone and sat somewhere together, have you it's a scheduled time and you're uninterrupted? That's exactly

Claire DeCarteret 25:47  

right. Yes. And you know, a couple of things here, it sends a message that you're important to me, and I've got this time carved out for you on a on a weekly or BI monthly basis. So it can be, it sets up that care factor right away, even just by making the time for it.

Anna Rasmussen 26:12  

And it's setting an agenda for something like that. I think agendas are really obviously that's very intentional. I'm a massive believer of shared agendas. So both people are contributing to that. If you've got Is there any kind of best practice around agenda setting or preparation for those check ins,

Claire DeCarteret 26:34  

every manager will do it differently. A lot of managers who have got some coach skills, so I'm not saying that they're, you know, trained executive coaches, but you know, they have some coach skills, there'll be Kochi lead in those meetings. So they may have some agenda items. But they'll also know that that's a space for the the employee to bring along, things that are on their mind, things that they're proud of things that are getting in their way. And those are some great questions to ask, what are you really proud of in the last week? What are some of the barriers in the last week that I should know about? Is there anything I can do to help you? It's those kinds of questions. Another tip here, or a clue to boost the effectiveness of this conversation even more, is to, to have some conversation about the person, the individual outside of work as well. So knowing that they are a person with a life and you know, things going on. Thirdly, when it comes to well being this is an opportunity to just find out how they really are. Yeah,

Anna Rasmussen 27:46  

check in nice, quiet space open, open up the conversation. Okay, fantastic. And then the final.

Claire DeCarteret 27:53  

The final one is developmental coaching, and even just titling it this or a version of this actually helps set the right tone and expectations for the meeting that this is about growth. This is about your development. So let's have a look at tracking two goals. Let's have a look at barriers to goal attainment, let's set new priorities if that's what needs to happen, let's think about how you're using your strengths to accomplish those goals or those outcomes that we've both committed to. So it feeds in really nicely with that first conversation, which is the role and relationship expectations conversation. And this is the one where you can actually sit down and think about, well, how are we going? How are we tracking? What's in the way? What, what do we need to do more of? So it's very future focused?

Anna Rasmussen 28:50  

Okay, brilliant. And they and cadence for those that I guess it's going to be different for every individual. They're all on different development pathways, aren't they? So we've varied it's less about the cadence and more about the intention of that type of conversation.

Claire DeCarteret 29:05  

Exactly. And depending on the person's work, a different cadence will make sense. We would normally say once a month, but once a month, you have a developmental conversation, whether that's feedback that you can bring in qualitative feedback. So comments from peers and or clients customers. That kind of thing is really helpful to boost development. And this one works really well in making sure there are no surprises around expectations when it comes to reviewing progress. So if these conversations are happening, and they're happening frequently, both parties know where they stand. The manager has provided feedback so that the employee knows where they stand and and how they're doing and and they need to do better what they're doing really well. And And likewise, you know, the manager knows if they're supporting in the right ways. 

Anna Rasmussen 30:11 

Yeah, the benefit of this, when done well is entirely two way isn’t it. I mean both both individuals will thrive if these sessions are being conducted in the right way. Ok, so moving on then to the practical side of it, so the how, so we’ve looked at why the research was conducted, we’ve looked at you know, what the research has led to, in terms of sort of recommended intervention and then the how, the practical aspect of it. So you know on on behalf of you know all the managers that are listening and people within people functions that are faced with the reality of the kind of everyday, encouraging, motivating, supporting managers to find the time and prioritise the time to put these together. Has Gallup got any data on the barriers for managers, what stops them from, I mean the cadence you just described absolutely sounds wonderful, you know an individual is going to feel cared for, is going to feel seen, is going to feel heard, but what, you know, how, what are the barriers why do some managers do this and why do some managers don’t 

Claire DeCarteret 31:39

Every quarter we do a piece of research on trends and I've just seen the data for Q2, what what we see there is that managers are really struggling, so they’ve got a higher capacity to burn out, and their most likely to fear lay offs particular middle managers and their also most likely to be looking to hear in the next 12 months, so there's a bit of stress in the system and it’s a conundrum because we know how vital the role of the manger is to engagement and experience, sometimes I say there could be as many micro-cultures in your organisation as there are managers. People can join an organisation but they can leave because of a manager and over the last year 92% of people hat left their job said that their manager could have done something about it but they didn’t talk to them about it 

Anna Rasmussen 32:42

Right, gosh it’s terrifying 

Claire DeCarteret 32:45

So it’s a bit of a conundrum, I know it is, but it is such a critical role because if we go back to the earlier research around the biggest variation in any organisation is the manager, we know that up to 70% of the variation is explainer by the the culture that the manager creates in that team, so up to 70% of employee experience is almost owned of defined by the local manager 

Anna Rasmussen 33:15

Gosh, it’s I mean, that’s that is a sort of, renowned Gallup stat isn’t it, I see that a lot, and it never fails to scare me actually, and I think it’s even more frightening given the data you’ve just seen for Q2 that this population are most at risk, what can organisations do, and under pressure and risk of burnout and I think the pandemic has accelerated that as well because they’re having to manage in completely different conditions, and people are bringing so much more into the workplace as you said, wellbeing is something that is a high priority for people, and managers are having to at the coalface having those kind of conversations. So what can be, how can organisations support managers to ease their burden, or their overwhelm, to enable them to do, create this cadence of consistent conversations with their people.

Claire DeCarteret 34:22

Well there's a couple of things. First of all every manager has a manager so managers of managers need to be role modelling those conversations, so even the ery top leaders are probably also mangers so they have their own direct reports, so if it starts there, it becomes a routine in the organisation it becomes a habit, people gain a fluency around it, that’s really important, and then that allows those managers to feel, seen cared for, supported. So that would be the first thing, the second thing is a lot of people managers end up becoming people managers either because they’ve been around a while, so tenured, or they’ve been really good individual contributors, so they get promoted to people manger, but then suddenly they’re in a managerial role, and they’re not really given the scaffolding and support they require, so its that capability boost that’s required some kind of training, support some tools that are accessible for managers to use so that really, managers see the importance of managing outcomes through the engagement of their team, through their teams being thriving and energised and engaged they will get the results not another thing that I have to do, btu something that if I do this, will get the results so it’s some training and some development that includes really clever, simple tools and then it’s about really clearing the way for accountability for those conversations to happen, you know, coaching someone and this was pre pandemic, pre hybrid remote workforce, that actually used to keep the door to the office closed, or remove the chair so that people wouldn’t come in  and disrupt the work, and it was that actually this is this is the key part of the role is engaging your teams, and so their not a distraction, they’re the reason, but it is hard because we are putting a lot on managers so they need support, they need training, they need tools, and then driving accountability around those critical conversations happening.  

Anna Rasmussen 37:00

Yeah, and that’s the reality actually, if these conversations, you know this is proven data, that if their having those 5 types of intentional conversations, that actually their jobs are going to be that much easier, because people will be so much more engaged, more self-sufficient, and their performance will be higher and that’s ultimately what they need to do, so it’s just keeping it simple isn’t it, I think in the world as it is today, its ensuring that you keep it, with some much information coming at you, its just I love the simplicity of those 5 different types of conversations, I love the simplicity of the intention behind it, and knowing actually, as well I think it must be very reassuring for managers to know that this has been put together off the back of data, of of research, so we’re not just telling you to do it for the sake of doing it because we think this is the right thing, if you do this, these will be, you know, its proven this is is the result. 

Claire DeCarteret 38:02

I was just going to add that it’s a bit like a muscle, you do build fluency and routine around it, so where it’s not happening, it may feel a little clunky to suddenly sit down and say right we’re having a scheduled check in conversation, and that gonna feel a little bit hard at first, but the more you do it, the easier it gets, and then it comes really natural, its just like having a conversation at home you know with people that you love, if there’s something that you’ve never spoken about, first time you speak about it, its going to feel abit awkward and clunky but then you get that fluency and it just flows, so its one of those things that, when its done right, doesn’t feel like an extra thing you have to do, it’s just integrated into the way you’re having conversations. 

Anna Rasmussen 39:00

Yeah, fantastic. So, my final question then is around strength finder, and how, so I have completed my strength finder this morning and found it fascinating, so, and I love the concept, and simplicity, of focusing on someone's strengths, and I think that makes things easier for a manger, just be looking, just be looking for the strengths in that individual, and play to those strengths, I think it’s such a simple, positive concept, that I think would make managers lives a lot easier if that was engrained in the behaviours as well. Can I ask, how, how you use that, so again, if we refer back to the boss to coach framework that you offer, there, the strength finder, so how does that support, this comes back to the kind of practical and the how, I guess, because its kind off, again you mentioned scaffolding, its another piece of scaffolding, isn’t it the strength finder, getting an understanding, can you explain how that understanding of self and understanding of others and how that might help in the quality of these conversations? 

Claire DeCarteret 40:20

Definitely, well strengths finder, Clifton strengths, there’s 30 million people that have done their Clifton strengths and what it is, is it puts a language a commonly understood language, to patterns of thought, feeling and behaviour, or positive attributes about that person though if we know that it is going to boost engagement and performance for people to focus and investing their strengths we ought to know what those strengths are. Now an individual can often talk about their weakness, and they can talk about those until the cows come home, because everyone knows their weaknesses, but people find it inherently find it more difficult to talk about their strengths and where they make a positive contribution, and it is they do differently that they do better. So the strengths kind of puts a language to that talent so that you and I both know what it means to have X talent theme, and we both know how it shows up for that individual so again, its having that commonly understood language of somebody's superpower 

Anna Rasmussen 41:34

Superpowers, I love that

Claire DeCarteret 41:36

Yeah, and that that boosts the conversation when ou think about, now we have a mutually understood word that we talk about when we talk about that thing you do so brilliantly. How can you use that thing to accomplish your goals, how is that thing your advantage in this next key project or next key experience. Its adding depth it the conversation through a commonly used language rather than use guessing, you know, you and I might say we both have high competition, but we’ve got a completely different meaning about what it means to be competitive. For me it might be a negative connotation and for you it might be a positive one and that’s not really helpful. So the Clifton strengths assessment and then approach, provides that that language that’s mutually understood around where people can really make a contribution and it’s very powerful because we’re never as strong as when we have our recent successes in mind, when we have our strengths at the forefront. And we all have different strengths and that’s a really powerful thing as well. Every person on my team who does the same role, do it differently, based on their own strengths and the way I manage and lead, is filtered by my own talents and strengths as well. So the self-awareness is really key to the way people interact with each other. 

Anna Rasmussen 43:14

And do you share your strengths with your team so they can see...

Claire DeCarteret 43:19

Yes yes 

Anna Rasmussen 43:20

...Yours as well and how they play out. 

Claire DeCarteret 43:22

Definitely, defiantly, strengths-based cultures are very transparent about peoples strengths and their weaknesses, by the way, because a strengths based approach doesn’t mean ignore the weaknesses it just means that where we make the biggest investment is in our fastest path to excellence which is in our areas of talent and strength, if we invest in a strength we get energy we do better, we get into flow and so yes we share amongst teams, we have strengths based team profiles, strengths based organisations, so it factors into really it’s a cultural DNA it’s the way we do things around here. And there are many organisations that are strengths based organisations. 

Anna Rasmussen 44:10

Yeah well I think that, that simplifies it for managers as well coming back in, I think if you’ve got as you said that common language you’re not as a manger, its giving permission to focus in, Is it five or six of the key sort of strengths areas? 

Claire DeCarteret 44:29

Five, yeah 

Anna Rasmussen 44:30

Five, they know, they hopefully will know the five, for each of their direct reports, and then it gives a structure to the thing they’re going to be talking about. Because there is just a whole ether of information that they could pull on isn’t there, in those conversations, whereas if you’re honing in on one or twp. of those in a conversation, it makes it much more directed, as well, it gives it much more context, which again, its just about simplifying this for managers, which is fantastic. 

Ok brilliant, well that, I, sadly that brings us to the end of our conversation Claire. Thank you so much for being so open and sharing such great wisdom with us today, I think you know, obviously your, you can see your passion and belief in everything that you’re doing, and, which is just lovely to hear in addition to that, you’ve got all of this amazing data to back up your belief, so yeah, its been an absolute pleasure to talk to you today, and thank you for being so generous with all of your options and thoughts 

Claire DeCarteret 45:38

Aw thank you, no thank you so much for having me. I've loved it I can't believe we’re at the end of the time already, it flew past, but it really appreciate the conversation and thanks so much for having me.