Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast with Marathon Swimmer Andy Donaldson

Ultra Marathon Swimmer Andy Donaldson has been one of our most popular guests on Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast

In honour of his almost complete Ocean's 7 swims in one calendar year (he has just finished number 6) we re-visit this episode with Andy, where he explains how he tackles unforeseen challenges in the ocean head-on and reigns victorious!

We uncover the intricacies of Andy's training strategy for ultra marathon swimming. You'll be intrigued to hear about how he and his coach skilfully plan for his races, ensuring he is primed for success. Andy's approach to training emphasises quality and threshold sessions, allowing him to mirror his race day performance and clock near record times. His joy upon reaching the finish line and the importance of a strong support system is paramount to his success.

Finally, we dive into the Australian Triple Crown of open water swimming, with Andy giving a firsthand account of the three demanding races that form this elite swimming accomplishment. 

Trust me, this is one episode you won't want to miss! And if you have already listened to it, it's worth another listen.

Get behind Andy as he raises funds for the Black Dog Mental Health Institute, in completing the Ocean's 7.  Black Dog Mental Health Fundraiser  Andy has already completed:
The English Channel 8:00
The North Strait 9:13
The Cook Strait 4:33
Molokai 15:50
Gibraltar Straight 2:56
Catalina Channel 9:22
and has Tsugaru to go!

Connect with Andy
Instagram
Facebook
Black Dog Mental Health Fundraiser

Chapters

• 0:06 Swimming Journey
• 17:21 Training Strategy for Marathon Swimming
• 35:16 Australian Triple Crown Open Water Swims
• 52:36 Swim Clan
• 57:53 Swimming as an Enriching Experience
• 1:02:15 Swimming Drills and Training Sets

Transcript

Danielle Spurling: 0:06

Hello swim talkers and welcome to Torpedo Swim Talk. I'm your host, Danielle Spurling, and each week I chat to a master swimmer from around the world about their swimming journey. Today's podcast guest is Scottish native and now Australian resident, Andrew Donaldson. We take a deep dive into Andy's training, racing and everything that goes into winning a race like the Rottnest Island 20K solo, which he did in 2021. We talk about what went right and how to deal with things when unexpected obstacles are encountered and why these are really the best lessons to learn from. I hope you enjoy my chat with Andrew. Hi, Andrew, welcome to the podcast.

Andy Donaldson: 0:57

Hi Danielle, thanks for having me here.

Danielle Spurling: 1:01

Yeah, you're really welcome. I'm really looking forward to our chat. Where are you coming to us from today?

Andy Donaldson: 1:07

So I'm calling from Perth, western Australia, but, as you might be able to tell from my accent, i grew up in nice, sunny Scotland, so it's a bit of a changing environment and scenery, but I have certainly enjoyed the last nine years that I've been living here and swimming.

Danielle Spurling: 1:28

Yeah, so you've been in Perth nine years and have you got the rest of the family out with you?

Andy Donaldson: 1:34

No, well, i have an older sister who lives in Perth, which makes things a lot easier. We've got family away from home and it's been a couple of years as most of you guys know with COVID that we've been a little bit isolated here. but yeah, it's certainly made a difference and it's great having her here And I'm only like 15 minutes down the road so I can go drop in and eat all of her food.

Danielle Spurling: 2:04

That's what sisters are for That's what sisters are for. Take us back to growing up in Scotland and tell us what it was like competing there in swimming as a teenager.

Andy Donaldson: 2:19

So, growing up in the west of Scotland, it was the perfect place to grow up. We were very fortunate in that we lived and grew up in a beautiful country And, in terms of swimming, I followed my sister Hannah into the sport and my cousin Graham and had joined my local club called Norfolk, Airshire. And swimming in Scotland is a bit different to what we have here in Australia. Here in Australia you have a 50-meter pool in almost every suburb, whereas growing up there I think we had about four 50-meter pools in the entire country.

Andy Donaldson: 3:03

So it was really the sport and getting into really required commitment, not just from me but from everyone around, my parents especially, And they could be driving my friends and I up to swimming. They'd be waking up at the crack of dawn, 4am to drive an hour up to Glasgow to go to our local 50-meter pool And back down, go to school all day and then do the same thing in the evening. So really it was quite a testament to them and a time investment. But looking back at it, we all developed, I suppose, a degree of resilience and mental tenacity, because not everyone's doing that and waking up at those hours to do something that they love. So yeah, very always look back fondly, but at the same time, now that I'm here and I'm a five-minute walk from the pool, it's a bit nicer.

Danielle Spurling: 4:03

It's nice. What distances and strokes did you swim back in Scotland when you were younger?

Andy Donaldson: 4:09

So I was mostly a 200-meter person Growing up the kind of mantra in Scotland they'd throw you in and get you to do everything. So I was a 400 medley swimmer and 200 of each stroke. But I was a bit smaller than everyone else. So I'd be racing guys in my early teens and they'd all have these impressive moustaches and I'd be half their height. But I could hold my own because my coaches had really drilled in the emphasis of technique from an early age And I'm glad that they did, because when I started catching up in height and physique I had that under my sleeve to give me a real boost. And, yeah, went on to race all over the world for club and country And, yeah, it was fantastic.

Danielle Spurling: 5:04

Yeah, yeah. When I was doing my research I came upon I think you still hold one of the Scottish national records in the 4x2 freestyle relay, so that's a nice little, nice little cable.

Andy Donaldson: 5:18

That was probably the hit from Robbie Renwick and a few other really solid swimmers there. But yeah, i really loved the 200 freestyle and I think for me, getting around relays and when you have that come radaring, you're swimming as part of a team and amongst some of your best mates. You know you could always find that little bit extra on the tank to push it out and do one for the team. So, yeah, very much look back at those races fondly and yeah, i wouldn't have it anyway all the way.

Danielle Spurling: 5:55

Yeah, i mean Scottish swimming is really on the sort of international stage now with Duncan Scott And I've forgotten, actually mental blank, the other swimmer that comes. I think there's another one that comes from Scotland as well. That's great for the future of Scottish swimming. And do you know anyone still involved over there now, or have you sort of completely?

Andy Donaldson: 6:18

Yeah, i know a few of the guys there. It's funny, a lot of the people that coach these swimmers the likes of Duncan Scott. They're actually coaches who used to swim themselves and were maybe a few years above me, but they really championed change in Scotland in a sense that I think the mindset was always you know, flog swimmers as hard as you can and you know it was a process of attrition and only the strong would survive. And it got to a stage where you know that's not always the best way and you can always train hard, but smart work will always get you further. And I think these coaches the guys like Steve Tegg, ben Higson, all young coaches are really doing some fantastic stuff. They recognise that and probably championed more of an approach around technique and quality work, which is, you know, i saw at the British trials recently the Scottish swimmers are doing fantastic And it really gets me quite patriotic. I mean I love being British but I love being Scottish as well.

Andy Donaldson: 7:36

And it's just fascinating to watch.

Danielle Spurling: 7:41

It's like the whole sport has stepped up a level since I was involved in pool swimming And I'm quite glad to be no longer racing in that and more of the open office stuff here in Australia, yeah, and those people who are listening, international swimmers, mainly, probably from America, just to explain, for our Commonwealth Games at Australia and obviously Britain and Scotland are in, so Scottish people compete under the Scottish flag for the Commonwealth Games but for the Olympics under the United Kingdom.

Andy Donaldson: 8:17

Yes, that's right. So it's great that we have the opportunity to race for both, and growing up it was always a dream of mine to race for GB one that I unfortunately never quite made, but, yeah, equally, to be able to represent Scotland. The competitions, like the Commonwealth Games, you know that you get the whole nation splitting apart and there's friendly rivalries amongst everyone, which is just truly amazing to watch.

Danielle Spurling: 8:46

Yeah, yeah, and we've also got it coming up in the next few months in Birmingham, so that'll be something to stay up all night watching.

Andy Donaldson: 8:55

Yeah, I will certainly be keeping an eye out for the Scottish swimmers and hopefully they can do the country proud.

Danielle Spurling: 9:03

Yeah, I'm sure they will Tell us how you made your way to Perth.

Andy Donaldson: 9:08

So I'd finished up swimming at Loughborough University, which is in England. I'd finished up my degree there and basically it was peer pressure from my older sister. She came back following Christmas and just said I'd moved back in at home at Scotland. And then she came back and gave me a bit of a bollocking and said you need to stop living off Mum and Dad and come out to Australia and see what you think and you can swim here. So a few days later I pretty much bought a flight over with £500 in the bank up and moved across to Australia, which is as a young, fresh-faced 21-year-old. So it was quite daunting but at the same time very exciting.

Andy Donaldson: 10:00

So I moved to Perth. I'd joined Perth City Swimming Club pretty much the day I landed. I recall flying in in the morning and I'd just come from Scotland, i was wearing on my winter gear and pretty much was wearing as many clothes as possible to try to transport as much as possible with me and stepped off the plane to 40 degrees weather and it just hit me like a truck And I went swimming that day at Perth City and I must have been jet-light out of my eyeballs and I was swimming backwards and the coach must have been thinking who is this guy? He's terrible. But yeah, over the course of the next year settled into things and really started to enjoy life in Perth and was preparing for the 2014 Commonwealth Games when I, funnily enough, had about been accident. I was down at Smith's Beach in WA watching the Moutregrain surf life-saving championships, where they do the surf races. So for anyone, that's not an Australia, it's essentially a 400m open water course that starts on the beach, swung around some cans and back onto the beach, and I was really impressed with all the surf skills and how they run and transition into the water, so I tried to emulate it and ended up running in doing a dolphin dive and straight into a sandbar.

Andy Donaldson: 11:44

Oh no, yeah, obviously very, very unfortunate. I was highly embarrassed, but what had happened? more than sued, i really badly damaged my rotator cuff and that knocked me out of the pool for a few months and hampered the preparation for the Commonwealth Games and for the trials which I was hoping to go to. But yeah, sadly I didn't make it but at the same time, you know, led to bigger and better things for me. I came back and I my coach had said I think you need to learn surf skills, maybe join a surf club and do a bit of open water, and that was the introduction to that, because I'd never really swam in the ocean all that much, and it's not really a thing in Scotland, or it certainly wasn't when I was living there, but that's where it led to and that's how I got into ocean swimming.

Danielle Spurling: 12:45

Oh, wow. Well, it's been a pretty successful swap because you actually won the Rotnest Island Channel Swim solo attempt in 2021. Take us through that epic race, because it's a 20k race and you did it by yourself, so obviously you have a kayaker support crew. Do you have a boat that assists you with that, or is it just the kayaker?

Andy Donaldson: 13:09

Yeah, so you have a boat. The Rotnest Channel Swim. It's an event that's been running for about 30 years now and it's an island that's 20 kilometres off Perth, and it's over that time it's grown into one of the biggest ocean races in the world. A good 1000 swimmers do it every year And coming from Scotland, where swimming is not really a sport that's in the limelight, seeing that and seeing how much Perth as a city gets around, it was just incredible.

Andy Donaldson: 13:43

So it had always been a goal of mine to do Rotnest and to try and win it, and so the opportunity really arose in 2020, and I'd, funnily enough, been out of the water for a number of years. I'd kind of stepped away from swimming. I was a little bit burnt out from it, as I'm sure quite a lot of former elite swimmers can relate to When you really lose that passion for the sport because there's so much riding on results that you forget why you're doing it, and so I'd spent a number of years out of the water, and when COVID hit back in March 2020, april 2020, i actually found myself getting back into the water. A chance meeting with a guy by the name Martin Smoovey really changed my path, and he was very supportive and tried to encourage me to get back into the water, swimming up and down the coast of Perth And after a couple of years out of the water, it was tough but it was enjoyable. And over time I started to realise I'm actually not in bad shape. And so Martin had sat down with Martin and said, well, i might actually try and enter Rotnest and see if I can try win it. And we'd, in conjunction with this, we'd set up a swimming group for adults to try and encourage adults to get into swimming for the purposes of life enrichment and change. And I said to Martin if I can do this and if I can podium or even win it, i think it would send a really nice message that it's never too late to achieve your dreams And with the right support and environment, you can pull off things that you never thought were possible. And so that's what we set out to do, and it was just quite the journey. It had all this purpose injected into raising the profile of Swim Clan and sending that kind of message. And we'd also partnered with a mental health charity called the Kai Erdley Foundation, raising money for them, because mental health is such an important thing And I had been lost for a number of years and this got me back on track and got my life back on track, and having purpose and having something to target was just incredible.

Andy Donaldson: 16:33

So over the space of six months, i started training back up for Rotnest and the fuel was incredibly strong for 2021. You had the likes of Will Rollo, who had come second year before, very good established NARFON swimmer, kyle Wee, who is in the Australian Dolphins team, byron Kimber, who's top free in Australia for the 10K, and a few others to know. They were all entered in favourites to win this swim. And then here's this you know, 30 year old, has been swimmer who's entered And I don't think they were really expecting much, which was great, you know, because I could fly under the radar and cause a bit of a surprise. So my coach and I my coach Owen Carroll from Pear City Swirling Club we'd sat down and really created this really intricate plan of how we could approach the training and the week before, the nutrition, and how we would execute it on the day, and the whole plan was to get out up to the front and hold the pace that we'd been training for. So to give an idea, i think. For Rodness the record is three hours 59. And that's roughly sort of 112 per 100 pace, maybe a little bit faster when you consider all the feeds and the conditions that impact you. So Owen and I had planned things so that I'd be training to get used to not going 112s but make 107s comfortable and maybe even faster. So that's why we were practicing And what that meant on the day was I could come firing out the blocks, hold this pace that was almost unsustainable for everyone else, because they've all been training at 112s or 115s And really take control of the race. So that's what happened.

Andy Donaldson: 18:44

We set out strong and pretty much led from the start. So I got to the 10k I was still in the lead got to about 12k And that's where I really dropped the hammer. And for the next three kilometers I think I blew out the lead to about 400 or 500 meters. And the guys that were favorites for the race, they just had no idea. They were just so far out behind that they didn't actually know someone was in front. And I've spoken to William, the guy who came second. I've spoken to him after the race And they didn't even know it was me. They were that far behind, they actually thought they were leading themselves. So I can only imagine what would have been going on in his mind when they broke the news to him and said well, no, you're actually half a kilometer behind.

Andy Donaldson: 19:42

It must have been memorable for all the wrong reasons. Essentially, we had this bulletproof plan and come 17 kilometers, the lead was so solid that I could take the opportunity to almost enjoy coming into the finish and really soak up the moment, because it's such a rare experience. Funnily enough, i didn't actually know. I knew I was in front, but I didn't know by how much and how fast I was going. And on a day turned out, we were actually not far from the record, which was completely unexpected because the conditions weren't forecast to be great, and so I'm not saying that I would have had an extra five minutes in me, but no, i was just quite stunning And it's a special moment when your toes touch the sand on rotten Est and to have pulled off this journey that had started from almost ground zero. It was really special, and to have so many people that were involved in the journey there alongside me and then at the finish line as well, was really quite something.

Danielle Spurling: 21:06

I love the way you've described that. I can tell the passion that you have for what you've done and it's really sort of heartwarming to hear that you found that love again for the water. One thing I want to go back to that you mentioned, obviously, the rate that you were trying to get into, the hundreds that you trained at the one one oh seven. How did you structure your training, sort of in the pool for that? were you doing many, many hundred repeats or were you doing longer swims and trying to keep that time there all the time? What was the sort of the intricacy of your sessions before that?

Andy Donaldson: 21:40

That's a good question, and my approach was very different to everyone else's. It was more about quality based swimming rather than getting the mileage, which is probably counterintuitive or probably the opposite of what most people talk about. I think a lot of people talk about jumping into the river and swimming for four hours nonstop and so forth. When I sat down with Owen the coach, i said to him he was very blunt about it and just said look, you're not going to train these guys. They've been training for years nonstop at an elite level. We can't train them, but we can maybe train smarter, and so the sets were usually sort of seven kilometers long.

Andy Donaldson: 22:36

I was swimming maybe about five times a week right through until the end of December, which I knew myself was a lot less than everyone else, but we really wanted to try to do it equality and hit those times and get the body used to replicating that. So there was almost second nature. So much of the sets would be at that kind of quality speed And it would be repeat either. Repeat 100s, short rest is one of the sets that we do and it could be sort of four kilometers of I'll just simplify 4100s on 110.

Danielle Spurling: 23:17

Yes.

Andy Donaldson: 23:20

Not exactly like that. Obviously it's broken down a bit more, but you get the gist of it there. So that really forces you to develop your aerobic capacity and it's really the bread and butter of marathon swimming and distance swimming. And doing that alongside threshold sessions where you're working it almost like your capacity of, as you know, where your body can produce and deal with the lactate acid that is producing those real quality sessions. That's what we would try and focus on. So, yeah, because I knew that I could be doing all these long distance things.

Andy Donaldson: 24:04

But at the same time, this whole thing was about having fun and enjoying it. And I think we spoke earlier, you know, about people that get back into swimming, especially when they've come from a competitive background. You're doing it because you love it and you enjoy it. And I knew that if I'd gone straight in eight swims a week doing all these big long distance swims, i would have quickly fallen out of love with the sport. So it was carefully managing that and the enjoyment levels at the same time.

Andy Donaldson: 24:40

So having five swims a week, that was manageable and alongside work and balancing life. And you know, it gave us room to add on an extra session to if we wanted to, you know, get things up or we had room for growth, and that's what we ended up doing. So January, we added on another session, and then February, another session and so forth, and by the time I think it was a week before Rotnest, i was down doing a short rest sessions on 105 for hundreds and I was in the shape of my life. So, yeah, i was ready and firing to go and come race day because we've done all this work and we knew the plan inside out. It was just a matter of turning up and executing.

Danielle Spurling: 25:35

That's amazing. I'm really, really pleased to hear that approach And I think you know obviously a lot of marathon swimmers do do what you just said. They get in the water and they swim for four hours. But because it's at a much lower intensity it makes it much harder on race day to bring that intensity when you're competing against other people. Did you fight? did you finish any or did you not finish? but did you do any 20, 20 K swims before the race.

Andy Donaldson: 26:08

I had done. So. The longest nonstop swim I've done was 12 K, i think. Right The reason for that I'd already done this once before, so I knew what was involved, and also these big, long swing swims. This is my opinion. But I feel like you can get more out of a shorter session, more quality swimming. And I would only do a big long, 20 K if I didn't think I could make the distance or if I not.

Andy Donaldson: 26:46

Not that if I didn't think I could make the distance, but if I wanted the confidence to know that I could make the distance, that's what I would be doing. But at the same time, you know you've got to get the mileage in somewhere. So you know there's no shortcuts that you could take. If you want to do rock nice, you need to be able to do the distance. So I would say, get at least one under the belt if it's something that you're new to, but bear in mind that it will take a bit of a bit out of you and you'll have to recover from it. So just be careful and plan it in the session, plan it well in the season. So if I was going to do that, i would do it at the start of January and it gives you, you know, seven weeks to recover and prepare for rock. Nice, you know you're not doing. You wouldn't be doing 20 Ks before the week before you know.

Danielle Spurling: 27:39

So take us through race day and the preparation that you go through before you hit the water with unantrition and hydration and the mindset that you have going into it, knowing that you know you've got almost four hours of pretty intense swimming coming up.

Andy Donaldson: 27:58

So I've done my planning. I'd consulted with a lot of people in terms of creating a race plan. There must have been a good 10 or 15 swimmers and coaches, people that knew everything about the swim, had done it themselves, and some that had even won it and created a really bullet proof plan. So, and that goes for the nutrition as well, because everyone's kind of got their own idea of how to do things and you know they'll be adamant that their way is the best way. So I feel like there's no one size fits all, so it's always best to ask around and get advice and work. That's look for the trends, you know, look for the trends and advice, because chances are that's the best way to do it. So, in terms of my own swim, i was feeding every 15 minutes. I wanted to try get the, get the calories in early and ensure that there was no deficit, because when that happens, or when you hit the wall, it's very hard to come back. So, getting that in nice and early. And yeah, in terms of preparation, i think you know the usual stuff get a massage in the week before and what not and just make sure that you're feeling good and relaxed. I'd almost prepared myself for the inevitability of having a bad sleep, right, and why do you say that? Well, it's an interesting one, like you. That's when you start at quarter to six in the morning, so you have to be up fairly early, like 4am, and I just had a feeling that I might be too excited or whatnot. So I just knew, i told myself, if I'm awake and it's 2am, not to panic. And I'm sure there's, there's other swimmers out there, there's plenty of swimmers out there that have experienced, you know, pre night jitters or whatnot. It's going to happen And there's no point in beating yourself. Well, i told myself, there's no point in beating yourself up or stressing a lack of sleep because At the end of the day I'm lying in my bed, i'm not exactly exerting that much energy, so you're still recovering in some capacity. And, funnily enough, i woke up, i think maybe at 1am or 2am, but I was okay, i just lying there because I was prepared for that.

Andy Donaldson: 30:39

So, come the time to get down to classes low, which is where the race starts. I've been up for a few hours, which is not ideal, but I can't change that. So there's no point in stressing. So, yeah, i just had friends down there on the beach. I've got my timing tag the day before And, yeah, i just tried to stay relaxed.

Andy Donaldson: 31:07

I knew there's four hours of swimming ahead And you know it's an interesting one. It's not like a 200m freestyle where you have to really hit the ground running and straight off the back You've got 20Ks to get into a swim, so you can. It's okay. If you don't feel great at the start, you can swim into it. So again, that's another reason to you shouldn't really be too stressed about how you feel, because there's plenty of time and it doesn't all have to be perfect, because in reality what swim is perfect?

Andy Donaldson: 31:44

Good point In the middle of mine, my paddler. She was using one of those fishing kayaks that you use your feet to get propulsion, so she didn't have an oar And it was really quite choppy that morning And there was a good bit of swell And you know she really struggled with that And it kept sweeping into me And at one point properly t-boned me And I. So things, yeah, things don't go to plan, but at the end of the day that's okay When you've got time to. There's no point in getting stressed about it And it happens to everyone. So the quicker you can kind of you know it's happened, you know decompartmentalize that and put it back in your mind or just forget about it and adapt and just focus on what's ahead is the better. You know, because that it goes part and parcel of ocean swimming.

Danielle Spurling: 32:48

Yeah, that's great advice. I think that more people need to think about those kind of things in their mindset plan or their race strategy, because things do go wrong on the day And if you haven't thought about it, you panic very much.

Andy Donaldson: 33:04

Yeah, definitely, and yeah, you're so right Just being adaptable. Yeah, you burn all this energy by stressing and worrying, but there's so many factors outside of your control And at the end of the day, it happens to everyone. No one has the perfect race. There's no such thing. So don't stress about it Like, just take it in a straight.

Danielle Spurling: 33:25

So, after your rottenness swim I know that you were aiming to try and get the Australian triple crown over this next amount of time Tell us what swims that includes and how have they gone so far.

Andy Donaldson: 33:42

So yeah, after rottenness, i sort of sat down, my coach and we chanted about what comes next. And I said to him I said well, I'm actually not bad at this long distance stuff, maybe I should do a little bit more of it. And so I went away and chatted to a few people and did about research to see what, what else is out there, and I came back to him with this audacious proposal to do the ocean seven. So the ocean seven channel swims like the English channel, the Catalina one, the Catalina channel, ireland to Scotland and a few others that are also supposed to be the toughest and most challenging channel swims around the world. And the whole idea was to do it and try document it and bring that to the swimming community and just say this is what's involved in it and get this sort of unique portray, this unique insight into what marathon swimming is about. But before that I said to Owen, maybe I should try do some local ones first and just make sure I can actually do these tough ones before committing to it and finding out very quickly that I can't survive in 16 degree water.

Andy Donaldson: 35:16

So I looked at the Australian Triple Crown of open water swimming. So it's free swims. It's the the Port de Pub 25 kilometer race. That's from that's here in Perth And that's from Leighton Beach out to Rotnest, the Derwent Big River swim over in Tasmania. And that's a 35 kilometer swim from New Norfolk, a little town called New Norfolk, and it follows the river all the way down to Hobart And then the Osbell 27 kilometer Pam Beach to Shelly swim. So for people over in Sydney, this one is a swim from Pam Beach in the northern suburbs And it follows the coastline all the way down to Shelly Beach, which is just a little beautiful beach just situated next to Manley. And so we thought we would give those a red hot crack and see if we could really have a challenge of trying to break the record in each of them.

Andy Donaldson: 36:20

And so I had entered Port de Pub. That was supposed to be the first one in March And unfortunately with with the COVID situation, that race got cancelled. So, which was a real shame. I know the organizers, kevin Roberts and she was she was just simply devastated that the restrictions were were put in place just before that And which was really heartbreaking to see. But I'm sure they'll be back next year and come back stronger, stronger And but it probably works out quite well, because a week later I was supposed to do the Derwent swim. So I'm looking back retrospectively in hindsight quite glad that I didn't have to back up back to back. They'd fallen beside each other purely because of COVID situation, covid restrictions, And I had to rearrange a few of the days of the swims.

Andy Donaldson: 37:15

So at the end of March went out to Tasmania and a skipper called Val Kalmikovs skipped for me there. He's Latvian, olympian from, i think, maybe in the LA games, and really wonderful guy really. You know, just this big character, charismatic and just full of life. And we got on really well And he just did such a fantastic job skippering that event. So we set off at 2 30am from New.

Andy Donaldson: 37:58

Norfolk, which was a bit of a shock to the system. Similarly, i had had a really bad sleep In fact I didn't get any sleep the night before, so I was in a bit of a mood, if I'm honest, and you know, what can you do about it? And the river was sitting at about 17, 18 degrees, i think from memory, whereas the air temperature was 10 degrees, and so when we arrived, there's the steam coming off the water, which looks incredible, but then as soon as you jump in, it's that kind of a taint, your breath away. But you know, set off And there was method to the madness.

Andy Donaldson: 38:49

So the Derwin River swim. Obviously you're swimming down a river, but the closer you get to Hobart, the more the tide affects the swim. So it's a tidal wave, so it's a tidal swim. So if you time it well which Val very well did, perfectly if you time it well, you can be in the right place at the right time, when the tide is almost at its highest and it's starting to flow back out to the ocean, and you just get, you find yourself getting swept out and spat out the bottom, which is a surreal experience. So I was swimming along and you know we were getting up to speeds of seven, eight kilometers an hour, which is just unheard of. So by the time that we'd finished so this is a 34 case one I think we swam 35 in the day, which, which is not bad. The average pace it took us just over five and a half hours to five hours, 35. And the average pace per 100 meters was 57 seconds per 100.

Danielle Spurling: 40:07

Wow, that's moving.

Andy Donaldson: 40:10

Which you know, as a 31 year old, i don't think I can do 51 for 100 years freestyle anymore, so so that was really surreal, but, you know, mission accomplished, we'd had a really good swim. We'd we'd lowered the record who, i believe, was held by one of your previous guests, john Van Wees. Yes And yeah. Hopefully that one's there and can inspire others to give it a shot, because it's such a phenomenal swim And in some of the most beautiful surroundings in Australia. It was really, it was really a pleasure and privilege to swim there.

Danielle Spurling: 40:57

Yeah, yeah, that sounds amazing. Had you ever swum in the dark before?

Andy Donaldson: 41:05

I had swum in the dark once And this is a bit of a a wild story that probably would require you know an episode of its own to talk about. But I was once invited out to Bahrain in the Middle East, to do a swim there. One of the one of the shakes of Bahrain had organised a swim from Saudi Arabia to Bahrain And it's a 36 kilometer crossing there, and I essentially got the text from the guy that was doing it, a local triathlete called Eric Watson who's now based there, and he just said Andy, the shake wants to fly you in for this swim, can you come tomorrow? But I won't go into that race. I won't go into that one too much detail. But that was again a whirlwind of a story And, yes, i had experience swimming in the dark, but not nothing like this.

Andy Donaldson: 42:14

This was pretty surreal And I was swimming along beside Vowels Boat And every time I breathed to the right, you know I would look up and I'd just see the silhouette of the mountains, because you're in this valley and see the silhouette of the mountains and just the stars up in the sky. And it was. It was truly spectacular and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that swim to anyone, it was just completely stunning.

Danielle Spurling: 42:47

Yeah, it sounds amazing, But I think you can have that to yourself. I'm not in 35K And tell us about the excuse me, about the Osbill swim.

Andy Donaldson: 43:02

So the Osbill Palm Beach to Shelley Beach. I swam that at the start of April And it was a bit of a contentious one. They kept the organizer, timmy Garrett really lovely guy and very passionate about swimming The day moved around a few times because of the poor conditions over there. Sydney has been receiving a lot of rainfall over the summer And there was a lot of wash off from flooding, so the water quality wasn't so good. But we had this. We got presented with this window of half a day I think it was April 9th And I might be later, sorry And he put it out to the swimmers as to whether they wanted to swim it or not, and the majority of them did.

Andy Donaldson: 44:01

So I raced over to Sydney and got prepared for this swim And the organizers have put me in touch with a skipper and people to join the crew And I feel quite bad for them because they got thrown right into the deep end. The conditions were some of the most challenging I've ever experienced And we're swimming along and, my goodness, it's absolutely stunning The Palm Beach and all these Northern beaches. I've never been before, but for anyone that hasn't as well, there are all these little coves in the Northern beaches of Sydney And they are just out of this world and they have these immaculate rock pools and whatnot. But this swim goes down the coast and we decided to take the direct route to go straight to Manley and to Shelly Beach, which meant that we were a good three kilometers offshore And at times which can be quite hairy, and I think it would have been about 10 kilometers in I was maybe about two hours into the swim and we were going well, well under the record pace. It had been challenging, the conditions weren't great, but it didn't really faze me.

Andy Donaldson: 45:31

But all of a sudden, in the space of about 15 minutes, it just became manic out there. The wind picked up and it had swung around. Instead of being norverly so behind us, it had swung around to coming from the west And the wind speed had picked up to 25 knots with gusts of up to 35. So I'm swimming along and the swell is just pumping. It was like being in a washing machine out there And every stroke you're just getting battered.

Andy Donaldson: 46:12

And I'm looking to the left and all the crew are huddled underneath And beside each other and there's water just spraying out over the top of the boat and onto them And I'm just thinking, gosh, this. I feel sorry for these guys because this was their first ever skippering experience. It was the skipper's first ever skipper experience, first one. And so I'm just thinking, oh gosh, i feel bad for these guys. But at the same time I'm thinking to myself this is really rough. And in my head I was thinking right, someone's going to pull the pin at some point because I don't like, i'm having a really tough time. I can only imagine what everyone else is going through too.

Andy Donaldson: 47:07

And all of a sudden, sorry, it's just myself and the support boat. There's no one else, there's no paddler for my team. All of a sudden, the boat just took off. So the boat just took off, they hit the accelerator and sped off into the distance And I'm swimming along there and I'm looking around on three kilometres offshore and I'm thinking what on earth is going on here? And I'm really like I'm quite a chilled, relaxed guy, but I was pretty panicked. And then they turned around, the guys in the boat. They turned around and then started circling around me, and so my instant thought was oh my god, there's a shark.

Andy Donaldson: 48:02

There's a shark, and so I stuck my head up and raised my hands in the air.

Danielle Spurling: 48:09

I'm shouting like what's going on what's going on, guys?

Andy Donaldson: 48:12

And the skipper quite calmly replies oh, don't worry, andy, there's no shark, but we're sinking. Okay, well, that's not great either. So what they were doing, and what I found out afterwards, they were trying to rev up the boat, to raise the front of it up because they've taken on far too much water. They were trying to raise the front of it up to bring the water to the back of the boat so that they could get it out of the boat. They were frantically using bottles and bags to scoop the water and get it out, because the bilge pump had stopped working. And so this continued and I shouted, i just said, well, what am I doing here? And the poor skipper who I don't think he quite understood the gravity of how dangerous it is, he just shouted back and he's like oh, just keep swimming. And I'm just like, oh, no, i'm not swimming in this.

Andy Donaldson: 49:20

So there we are, 10 kilometres into this race, we're not even halfway, and we're three kilometres off the coast of Monteville. And I'm stood there, well, i'm stationary, treading water, and the guys are frantically trying to scoop water out of the boat with anything that they can find. And you know, five minutes passes, 10 minutes passes, 15 minutes passes, and I'm sure, up to the skipper and I just said, look, do we need to call this because that doesn't look like it's improving. And to his credit, you know, he just said, no, we're doing this, we'll get it fixed, we're not going to stop here.

Andy Donaldson: 50:08

And I was probably to the probably not what the other guys in the boat wanted to hear, but I'm glad that he did, because after half an hour we got ourselves going again. But in my head, you know, i was having a bit of a meltdown and you know I was part of me was like I just should just give up because you know I've been here and I'm tired And I've just mentally given up. But then the other half of me was in this Scottish fury and just in my head like I've paid all this money to come over here.

Andy Donaldson: 50:44

I've made the effort to come to Sydney. You're finishing this race. you're finishing this one no matter what, sir, but I managed to get going again and God knows how we were still in the lead even with this 30 minute break And I just really knuckle down and it got my head going. and the skipper was fantastic I'm a guy called Michael Donahue and we kept pressing on and thankfully the weather got better and we were able to finish the swim and go to Shelly Beach and go running up the beach and tell me the organizer is like oh yeah, so really good, swim out there. You were only 12 minutes off the record But at the same time, you know, i was just delighted to actually finish it and, through all the adversity and whatnot, it really gave me a lot of heart that the guys in the team were fantastic and really got.

Andy Donaldson: 51:57

you know, they kept that swim alive, they did a fantastic job and but be it also give me a bit of a boost that you know maybe I can actually do these ocean seven swims and through thick and thin and rough conditions. You know I can handle most things that get thrown away. so that was, yeah. I was very, very pleased with the outcome.

Danielle Spurling: 52:19

You know that's a good swimming story to retell over the years. Definitely. I hope your next experience at Osbill will be a better one for you.

Andy Donaldson: 52:28

Yeah, hopefully it'll be one story, and one story only. Yeah.

Danielle Spurling: 52:33

Can only get better.

Andy Donaldson: 52:36

I think again it comes back to what we were saying things go wrong, so yeah, you got to be adaptable in the sport and, you know, take it on the chin.

Danielle Spurling: 52:51

Yeah, absolutely, because it's different to the pool. I mean, you're swimming out in the ocean where it's not just you, you're relying on the environment and your crew and all those other factors the weather, obviously, hopefully no sharks, all those kind of things.

Andy Donaldson: 53:08

Thankfully no sharks still got all my limbs attached.

Danielle Spurling: 53:12

Well, that's lucky, seeing you know you're living in Perth, because there are a lot around there, aren't there?

Andy Donaldson: 53:18

Yeah, there are a few and luckily I haven't had any encounters.

Andy Donaldson: 53:23

But that's good, you know, at the end of the day we're swimming out in their territory. So, yeah, but again, like I try not to think about it because you know we can't do anything about it, they're out there and you know, for swims like Rotnest It's been running for 30 years and there's not really there's never been any serious Issue during that time. So it always gives me a bit of hope. And yeah, i think they're scared off by the sound of the engines anyway. So in the boat.

Danielle Spurling: 53:59

So I think so. yeah, let's keep that thought that's, and let's have a quick chat about your, your little swim clan business that you co founded. tell us what is involved in that and and where is it based and what sort of do you offer to people?

Andy Donaldson: 54:20

Yeah. So Swim Clan was set up by myself in Martin's movie and Martin's the guy that, almost like fate would have it, my first day of quarantine during the lockdown, i bumped into him down the beach and we started swimming together. And then that shared passion that we had from the sport translated into setting up Swim Clan. And it really got set up because we recognised that the impact that it has in people's lives, the sport of swimming or just every sport in general. But when people achieve things that they thought were never possible So I'll give an example of that.

Andy Donaldson: 55:06

If I'm over at Rotnest during the Channel Swim, obviously you've got the people that come in first, second, first, and that's great. But the real winners in my eyes are the people that are coming across in eight hours or nine hours and no one's given them a hope in hell and they've just overlooked that. And these guys have their family on the finishing line and they've gone through absolute hell to get there and they've pulled off what would be mission impossible and achieved something that they could only dream of and you just see how much it means to them and in that moment when they run under the arch, it changes the life and we recognised that and we thought well, how can we give back to the swimming community? How can we help people through the sport of swimming? And so when we were looking at what's already out there, we identified that there's a lot of groups for established swimmers, like all these people training for the likes of Rotnest, who already know how to swim and they've had experience of squad swimming before. But how do you get into that If you have been away from the sport for a number of years or you're completely new to it? how do you get into those squads? Because you could start in a swimming squad and you're at the back of the lane, all the swimming jargons being shouted and you've seen it before with their stopwatches shouting out all these times and you're getting laughed, and we just thought that was quite a daunting experience for a lot of newcomers to the sport.

Andy Donaldson: 57:03

So we thought we would try to create something that could transition people into that and get them prepared for squad swimming or to join a triathlon club or to join a surf club, and something that focuses more on the skills and technique. So we created something called stroke development, which is an hour long session and it's low distance, so it's maybe one and a half to two k's, all based out of 25 meter poles. But it's all drills and skills and it teaches swimmers the fundamentals so that they can get their freestyle into a position where they're confident enough to transition into a squad and take that next step, should they want. Because not everyone wants to go and swim laps in myos and do things like rocknest or anything. Some people just want to be comfortable in the water and to be able to swim in the ocean with their kids, and so we recognise that.

Andy Donaldson: 58:08

And when you live in a country like Australia where swimming is such an integral part of the culture, here it's really ingrained in the day to day life. If you can't swim, then you're almost missing out. So we recognise that and we wanted to give that pathway for people to get into the sport and to give them those fundamental skills that they could take on and use in their later life or in the pool to really enrich what they have in the day to day.

Danielle Spurling: 58:44

Yeah, i think that sounds great. And how many people do you have that belong to?

Andy Donaldson: 58:51

swim club. We've probably had a couple hundred that have come through and that's been in two years that we've been running it. We're not necessarily a squad. The whole idea is that we transition people through and get them ready to join a squad or a surf club or a triathlon group and get them into, almost provide that pathway into the swimming community. We have people come back and you can see it that this thing has transformed their lives and opened up so many doors and a lot of people.

Andy Donaldson: 59:34

When they get that taste of doing one ocean swim, so like a lot of them start off and they do the sort of 500 meter come and try swims and then, once they've got that under the belt, they progress on and again, a lot of them are there because they want to get into triathlon or ocean swimming. But you just see what it means to them when they successfully do one of these swims and they're just beaming with smiles and to have been a part of helping them to get there, being part of that journey, is very rewarding. So we probably don't make that much money out of it we don't, but for us it's our way of giving back to the sport that's been so good to us and hopefully we'll be able to continue running it and provide that opportunity for others to get into the sport and to have their lives enriched as well.

Danielle Spurling: 1:00:35

Yeah, i mean it sounds like such a worthwhile sort of endeavour and you're sort of creating a movement, and we'll certainly put the link to your website in the show notes so people can investigate further if they're living over in Perth. What I'd like to just finish off with is five quick favourite swimming questions.

Andy Donaldson: 1:00:55

Okay, yep So they're prepared.

Danielle Spurling: 1:00:59

What's your favourite open water swimming location that you've ever swum in?

Andy Donaldson: 1:01:05

Oh, that is a tough question. I was in Lake Argyle last weekend, which was just surreal I mean the stars up there in the Kimberleys which just absolutely blew me away. But my favourite will always be the Denmark Southern Ocean classic mile.

Andy Donaldson: 1:01:30

Right okay, denmark is a country town about five hours from Perth and every Easter they have this one mile race on Easter Sunday and since I've been living here in Perth I've had the pleasure of going down there most Easter's and it takes place at Ocean Beach and it's two laps around the bay and it's just, honestly, the most stunning place I've ever swum. The locals really get behind the race and always make everyone feel welcome and that's just really special for me.

Danielle Spurling: 1:02:12

That sounds beautiful. What is your favourite freestyle drill to do at training?

Andy Donaldson: 1:02:20

My favourite freestyle drill would be single arm Yep, single arm freestyle. I think that really forces you to think about what you're doing with your hand entry, and something that was drilled into me from an early age is really emphasising the initiation of the catch with your fingertips. So everything follows that, so you lead with the fingertips and that gets you the anchor in order to get a good, strong pull, and especially for open water swimmers and marathon swimmers, my view is that the majority of propulsion should come from your pull. I don't really use my legs too much. I just use them to stay balanced, because when they're such big muscles, they use up a lot of energy to kick hard. so I think having a good pull certainly helps, and that's one of the best drills, in my view, for developing a good freestyle.

Danielle Spurling: 1:03:29

That's a good one. Yeah, favourite goggles brand that you use in the open water.

Andy Donaldson: 1:03:36

Though I'm very old school, i like speedo. Speed sockets, yep, and I get given a pair when I was seven years old when I first started competitive swimming, and I've always tried to keep with them since. But the speed socket is a discontinued brand so they're very hard to come by these days. so I think there is a new speed socket 2.0 version which I use now. So, but no, i'm very much speedo loyal in terms of goggles, suits and everything.

Danielle Spurling: 1:04:18

Yeah, i love the racing goggles. I used to use those speed sockets as well, and they are very hard to find, so I've gone on to the Opal mirrors and yeah.

Andy Donaldson: 1:04:29

The Opal mirrors are nice as well.

Danielle Spurling: 1:04:31

Yeah, they're a nice goggle. What product do you use when you're doing saltwater swimming or ocean swimming to stop chafing?

Andy Donaldson: 1:04:43

So I actually don't have any product, specific product that I use. I'm just quite old school with the Vaseline and Wolfat the Lanolin. But I would like to try the Ocean Grease. I think I'll try to get my hands on that and give that back. I've got the English channel later in the year, in August, so I'll certainly be lathering myself up for that, because I'm not someone that likes the cold, which sounds very contradicting since I grew up in Scotland but I'm also half Asian, so I think the Asian end doesn't like the cold.

Danielle Spurling: 1:05:25

And favourite freestyle training set. I think you probably touched on it earlier with your 4100s, but any sort of thing that springs to mind.

Andy Donaldson: 1:05:36

I don't have a favourite set in particular. I can tell you I remember the hardest set I ever did. Yeah, tell us that This was going back a few years, so 2016, when I was really in foam swing and doing 10 sessions a week. My training partner, simon Hatinga, was preparing for the Rio 10K qualifier which was out in Portugal. I'll always remember this set because it gives me the heebie-jeebies thinking about it. But it was a set of 3300s and it was one on 350, one on 340, one on 330.

Andy Donaldson: 1:06:25

It was technical in the way that we had a lane each and every 50. We had to change lanes once. So swim under the lane rope midway through. So we had to do that once every 50. So what's that? 6 times in a 300m and we had to do head ups every 5 strokes And so there's 9K of swimming like that and getting down to those 330s when you're having to do that and you're having to swim under the lane rope and you've got all these curveballs thrown in in addition to head up 5s, which is quite demanding in taxing. It was one of those sets that I just think I have no idea. Looking back, i have no idea how we did that. It gives me anxiety thinking about it.

Danielle Spurling: 1:07:23

I can imagine it's giving me anxiety hearing about it. Yeah, that's a good one. We'll certainly put that out there to everyone listening and they can try and replicate it. So that's it.

Andy Donaldson: 1:07:38

Well, i wish them all the best.

Danielle Spurling: 1:07:42

Well, andrew. Thank you so much for giving us your time today and coming on the podcast. It's been lovely meeting you and hearing about your swimming journey, and best wishes for the English Channel swim coming up later in the year and hopefully all of the Ocean 7.

Andy Donaldson: 1:07:59

Yeah, thank you so much, danielle. It's been a real pleasure being on the show and being able to chat with you. Yeah, fingers crossed, all goes well with the English Channel and the Ocean 7. Yeah, i'll get my head down and give them the best go.

Danielle Spurling: 1:08:15

Yeah, for sure. Well, best of luck and thanks for coming on. We'll see you soon.

Andy Donaldson: 1:08:21

Thank you, danielle.

Danielle Spurling: 1:08:22

Okay, thanks, bye. Thank you, bob. Thanks to Andy for joining us on the podcast today. I hope that you can get some takeaways from Andy's swim journey and all his experience and insights that you can now use in your own open water swimming adventures. Don't forget to tell a master swimming friend about us and check out our new website at wwwtorpedoswimtalkcom, because we've got loads of great stuff for you to look at and to go down the master swimming rabbit hole. I know I'm not the only one that does it, so be honest and head down that hole and find out everything you can about master swimming. Until next time, happy swimming and bye for now.