Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast with Michelle Ford - 1980 Olympic Gold Medallist and author of "Turning the Tide"

When Olympic gold medalist and author Michelle Ford steps up to the microphone, you can almost feel the tension of the starting blocks at the 1980 Olympics. Her voice carries the weight of an era, and in her memoir "Turning the Tide," she brings us along on a journey through the highest peaks and toughest challenges of her storied career.

 As we chat with Michelle for this episode of Torpedo Swimtalk Podcast she doesn't just recount races; she plunges us into the psychological depths of competing amidst a doping scandal, showcasing her own steadfast integrity and the broader fight for fairness in sports.

The murky waters of Olympic history are stirred as we discuss the IOC's Medal Reallocation Program, diving into the complexities of righting the wrongs of past games. The conversation wades through the emotional and political currents faced by athletes like Michelle, navigating through a time of suspicion and deceit. It's a poignant recollection of the struggles endured by those who swam against the tide of the East German doping regime, capturing the grit needed to confront such daunting adversaries.

Every stroke counts in the evolution of swimming, and Michelle's early splash as a record-breaking teen exemplifies this. We explore the trajectory of her career, from a young prodigy to an Olympic champion, dissecting the shifts in coaching that transformed her swimming. 

Join us as we celebrate the undying spirit of Michelle and her relentless quest for recognition and justice in the world of Olympic Swimming.

You can check out Michelle's book "Turning the Tide" here

Chapters

• 0:07 Michelle Ford
• 15:38 Reawarding Medals
• 34:37 Early Career, Challenges, and Achievements
• 44:51 Evolution of Coaching in Swimming

Transcript

Danielle Spurling: 0:07

Hello swimmers and welcome to another episode of Torpedo Swim Talk podcast. I'm your host, Danielle Spurling, and each week we chat to a master swimmer from around the world about their swimming journey. Do you remember the 1980 Olympics, with a political boycott from much of the western world and rumours of drug cheating swirling around the East German female swimmers? It was certainly a turbulent Games. Australia's Michelle Ford won the 800 freestyle gold medal at those Games. She was the only non-Eastern Bloc female swimmer to do so. She should have two other gold medals as well. She continues to advocate for the reallocation of those medals and details it in her new book Turning the Tide. This is her story. Welcome to the podcast, Michelle Ford, and thank you very much for taking the time to talk with us today.

Michelle Ford: 1:10

Thanks, Danielle, pleasure to be here.

Danielle Spurling: 1:12

Yeah, it's really great to have you. Olympic gold medalist, world record holder, sports administrator, mother and now author. Congratulations on your memoir Turning the Tide, which I read cover to cover over Easter and really enjoyed it. What inspired you to write your swimming journey down?

Michelle Ford: 1:31

I think a couple of things. I wanted to voice the concerns of many females who lived during an era that was baffled by doping and boycotts, and also to give a voice to those women or at least, being that I had so many opportunities in the administration and understand the administration of sport at all levels, I can see how this works and hopefully become a voice for them, how this works and hopefully become a voice for them.

Danielle Spurling: 2:06

Yes, yeah, I mean we're going to dive really deep into that, but I suppose I wanted to ask you first how was it reliving all those highs and lows, because you talk about going through your archive in your bedroom and pulling out all the news clippings and reliving all those things. How was that?

Michelle Ford: 2:24

That was dangerous, I can imagine. Not dangerous. It was an emotional rollercoaster, really reliving some of the. I mean you see the highs and the lows and you relive that journey with a different eye, through different eyes. But then you try and compare it to today and you realise that there's still a lot of those issues still alive today. And hence you know, when people said to me, is your story relevant? Absolutely, absolutely relevant. And you know we've come a long way but there's still a lot of hurdles to to to jump over yeah, absolutely.

Danielle Spurling: 3:09

I think it's totally relevant. I mean, it's still doping going on.

Michelle Ford: 3:13

It's being masked well by scientists who are advanced on what we can test, so it's still there yeah, I, I think what my, my feeling is uh, we have to treat the part, we have to treat the past, we have to answer the past, answer to the past in order to protect the future. And that past and the most dramatic and horrific state-sponsored doping program and I know we'll go back there, but that's what changed sport forever and it introduced an avenue of high-level scientific knowledge into sport which is, in part, good but also, on the other side, very harmful to junior athletes, very harmful to junior athletes. And I think there is a hiccup in the system whereby they haven't addressed the past, that being, our level of administrators in sport, being FINA, ioc, have not addressed that.

Danielle Spurling: 4:23

Well, seeing we've opened with talking with that, let's continue talking with it, because you were obviously. You won the Olympic gold medal in 1980 and you were the only non-Soviet bloc athlete at the time who won a gold medal against what we now know was systematic cheating across the East German team. How did it feel to actually compete at that time? But you still had to go in there with the mental attitude of being able to swim that race.

Michelle Ford: 4:53

Look, it was very difficult because I've sort of analysed it and re-analysed it and I come to the conclusion. There's two points here. One is that the steroids and the amount that the East Germans were actually inducing into their athletes was phenomenal. I mean three times the amount of Ben Johnson, for example, if we recall Ben Johnson, but not only that. They had a psychological advantage, knowing that they were stronger, faster, more agile, more. Their recuperation was amazing. For example, if I took three days to recuperate, they'd take 20 minutes. And that's just in sport. That's a huge advantage, just to be able to recuperate and come back and get your system back on track to compete. So yeah, so we had all that.

Michelle Ford: 5:55

And it was just the size of them as well, I mean their bulk and the looks of them.

Michelle Ford: 6:01

I mean they were, you know, highly, highly dosed up and some of them have actually become men in effect during the process, which is, of course, is a problem in the whole scope of things. But as a competitor next to them, you know it's tough, and I think we were blown away in montreal in 76 when they first came to the scene in such a dynamic way. They won um 11 out of the 13 um medals in swimming, uh, which they also did in moscow, and to come up against it, it was just phenomenal really, and you had to just look past it and put. I've always said you have to put the blinkers on and not look at your competitor, and it was always just a challenge for me to, to, to swim my race, um, and not consider who my opponent was. So it, so it's a mind over matter. It really is. I mean, of course, because their matter was so much bigger and better than mine, but I obviously had the mental strength to pass through that.

Danielle Spurling: 7:17

Yeah, I can tell by reading the book and the way you sort of, you know, described your approach because you had your 200 butterfly first and then your 400, and you talked about the way the East Germans worked as a team and the tactics that they used to sort of take you out fast and throw you off your race plan. And I thought that was so insightful from you as a 17 year old to take those two sort of lessons and then take it into your 800 and know what you were going to do.

Michelle Ford: 7:45

Oh, I just felt, I felt abused in the first two races, in that I I saw myself get swallowed into their game and that's not usually how I swim a race. Once you do that, you give in, you give in to someone else's race plan and it's very um, it's, it's hard to, it's hard to to keep uh yourself focused, uh, because you see the swimmers on either side of you going out and you think that that's the speed that is, and you're feeling good and you go out with them. And they were covered on both sides. And in those days we had three um competitors from each um um country. Now it's only two, but with three, what they did was they sent the two out with like in front. So I would go with them and in butterfly, you look forward. And the, the other, uh, east german, on the outside lane of where I was, uh, she'd come home, so they held her back to come home and I I just got sucked into their, their game plan.

Michelle Ford: 8:57

And I think you know there was a lot of other stuff, as you probably read in the book that that happened in mosc, moscow. That was totally disturbing. You know you warm up being disturbed by not getting to the pool in time and they'd already changed, they'd already done the warm-up and so you didn't have time. You had more doping controls than they ever did and that took time. So time out of your own preparation and your concentration. And you know, the food was well let's put it this way not to be desired, at least for where we came from, and it was a totally different regime diet and it just didn't go with our swimming program.

Danielle Spurling: 9:46

All the things you talked about in the book and all of those hurdles. It's absolutely amazing that you, you won that gold medal and you were so resilient and and the race was just brilliant to watch. You must look back on that now and just you know that must send shivers down your spine.

Michelle Ford: 10:02

Well, it does actually because that 800 metres freestyle it was one of the last events of the Games and I of course got my bronze medal in the 200 fly and fourth placing in the 400 free. So I went up to the 800 and with my coach we said I'd take it out easier, not go out with them, hold back and of course not hold back as much as I do, because I was a body and something length behind when you watch the race and I'm even amazed that. I said, wow, was I that far behind? And we decided we'd go at the 200 instead of, you know, a 250 or 300 in an 800. It's strategic as well. But when I took off the wall, I think I surprised them because I had changed my race tactics.

Michelle Ford: 10:56

We didn't have all the videos back then to look at people's races so that they had the splits of my races so they could work out from that. But we didn't even know who was. You know, the east germans. I knew them by the girls in the blue suits. I didn't even know their names. It didn't really matter to me because they were just the girls in the blue suits, uh, and they were the ones to beat and and. So when I went through the lineup.

Michelle Ford: 11:28

What was crazy was my head went into. Well, I've got to save myself now for the rest of the 800, because I've gone out a bit earlier. I've got to save myself because they're going to come back at me because they've got more in their tank than I ever will have and that played on my mind for over 400 metres. That's a long time and I'm just pacing myself thinking they're coming back at me at this length because I didn't know their race plan. And, yeah, I got to and I said when should I put the throttle down? When do I go on this? And that's you come back to the when. When do I go on this? Uh, and, and that's you. You come back to the point where do you go for the time? Or do you go for the win?

Michelle Ford: 12:10

And in the Olympic Games, I'm sorry, you go for the win? Yeah, the time. The time doesn't. I mean the time is reflective, of course, and I would. When I finished, I said I still got more in in my tank to keep going because I'd saved it all, uh, but I was, I was well in front, uh, at the end, and uh, I, I, I think they were very disappointed and and and they thought they had it, and I think the shock for the East German girls when they put their head down on the block, when they touched the wall, showed everything that they were supposed to take that out and I had just completely annihilated them. So it was a good film.

Danielle Spurling: 12:55

I bet it was. It was great to watch and I think also that one of the pictures you had in the book. You were sort of in the middle of the two of them and they did look a bit shell-shocked yeah, I don't think it dawned the they were told as a team.

Michelle Ford: 13:14

They were, as you said earlier. They were um a team, they worked as a team. The coaches didn't care who won, they just had to win. So, whatever that cost, whatever the cost was, they had to win and they put anything, they'd sacrifice anything or anyone to do that. And hence you know, the doping program was so, so, so, um, so heavily uh in in, induced into the poor girls, uh, but yeah, they, they were very disappointed because I think they, they were, they felt shame as well. I haven't spoken to them, but just their faces, just their, their attitude after um, they'd let down their, their, their team model, um, but yeah, I didn't care about that yeah, of course not at the time I was happy and you should be still happy.

Danielle Spurling: 14:12

Have you ever had a chance to speak to any of the East German swimmers from that time? Not those two particularly, but any of the others? Um look.

Michelle Ford: 14:18

I was to reach out to them all. Sadly, we've got to get the context of this era, and it was during the Cold War, and the Eastern Bloc, as we called it, was so closed, we called it behind the Iron Curtain. That being, no one could get into any of those countries without an invitation, and the invitation was few and far between, and you could only see what they wanted you to see. Um, so our knowledge and our relationship with anyone on that side of the curtain was about in non-existent. So, and as time goes on, you know, I I've put all this back into the my my boxes and moved on. Uh, but it was time. It is time to tell this story, and I think it's not only my story, it's many, as I said in the beginning, many um of those who participated, not only the females, but also the males and and people from the Western world and the Eastern world. We all bear some the anguish of that era, and I think it's now time that that was resolved and that we talk to it.

Danielle Spurling: 15:38

Yes, Do you have any hope that those medals will be re-awarded to the rightful owners? Do you have any hope that those medals will be re-awarded to the rightful owners?

Michelle Ford: 15:45

The IOC now has a program called the Medal Reallocation Program, which is already in place, and they've done it for, you know, 2000, 2008, 2012, 2016. So it's not like it's a new thing for them. 2016. So we're it's not like it's a new thing for them. Uh, and it's. It has to be said that the east german girls and their doping program was so meticulously run that every part of their program was written down. So there's proof and that proof has been taken to a court of law in Germany from the girls against their coaches and administrators and they've proven that they were doped and they were doped heavily and to the extent that was in the papers or the files that came out of the Stasi files, german police at the time. And with that proof, I think the IOC and FINA and, of course, athletics have to take that into consideration and say there is proof here. It's been called out in a court of law.

Michelle Ford: 17:03

We've got to remember that the east germans were never tested positive. They had a very, as you said earlier, their the scientific knowledge. The people who were testing it were the same people who were making the drugs. So you will always put one a little bit behind the other and you know you can switch out just molecules of an ingredient and the test doesn't pull it up until later. And that's where the ioc is today. With their blood testing they can actually look in and see if that was the those banned substances were actually used. So they can go back in time which they had done to call out the cheats yeah, so do they have any samples stored from 1980?

Michelle Ford: 17:53

1976, 1976 and 1980, um, I think up until maybe 92 or 98, I'd have to reconfirm that but it was based on urine samples and until they got the blood testing happening. Now it's obviously more precise. But with urine you have to be very specific and you can't keep a urine sample and that's. I can hear there the voices of caution saying that you know well, we haven't got the proof on the day, et cetera. But the proof is on the day. They were actually given testosterone and anabolic steroids and other performance-enhancing drugs leading up to the blocks on that day. Okay, in Moscow there was no positive test. You have to ask yourself how did that happen?

Danielle Spurling: 18:55

So the IOC have this committee now and do World Aquatics have any say in sort of moving that along so that people can get some kind of resolution, or is it just sort of sitting there talking about it?

Michelle Ford: 19:09

Well, it's a bit of a tit-for-tat program, but the FINA, the World Body, now World Aquatics has its jurisdiction for the swimming world and the swimming championships, except at the Olympic Games, although they're party to the Olympic Games and they subscribe to the Olympic Games, that the program of doping is actually under the auspices of the International Olympic Committee and not the Federation, whereby all world championships which is the same question why hasn't FINA acted in a way?

Michelle Ford: 19:51

So, to answer your question, yes, it has to be the two well, one body or the other, and or both, that can subscribe to looking at the record books and realigning them with what their constitution and what the fair play and the ideals of sport and a fair playing field, and doping is the most dangerous and the most shameful abuse of those ideals. And therefore I do believe that they have to do something to answer this, because not only the West that being America, england, australia they lost out on their medal placings the East Germans as well want to see this, the reconciliation of this and the recognition, and set the record book straight.

Danielle Spurling: 20:57

So I think it is time that this is spoken to and in 1980, not only did you have to deal with what was happening with the East Germans, we had a boycott in Australia and the Fraser government decided not to endorse sending a team. How did that play into your mindset? Because in reading through that, I mean I didn't realise that there was a number. They made a decision, the AOC made a decision to go, but then they decided again and they had another vote and it was all up in the air. How does that play on your mind when you're training?

Michelle Ford: 21:33

It was horrific and you know the athletes that went to Moscow lived through the most disastrous time in sport I think ever, and especially in Australia, although you know people said, oh well, you went, but we went through so much hardship. The team you know, we were given this we're going, we're not, we're going, we're not, we're going, we're not. Would you get into the pool and do the amount of training that's needed to get that? The precision and the physique and the mental? It just played on our minds so much that our competition ended up being, you know, whether we're going or not, just getting on the blocks, just getting onto the plane was a real struggle for us and it went on. For when Carter called the President, carter, the US President, called the threat of a boycott in January. That was only six months out from the games. Now if you look at the kids today, they're in total heavy training. Their, their minds are set for a goal. Now, if you disturb that by saying, look, mate, we're not sure if you're going, you know well, maybe you are, maybe you're not, maybe who knows? Uh, and we had already been selected. So we knew we were on the team and whether or not we were going.

Michelle Ford: 23:06

So and then, you know, my family and and, and myself and and and others received death threats because Australia was torn apart over this. The government was asking for us not to go. The Olympic Committee, who has the right of decision whether or not a country participates? The invitation is sent to the national Olympic body, not the government. Invitation is sent to the national olympic body, not the government. Uh, for that reason, um, the the national body was able to um override that and say yes, we are, we are sending a team and I I believe, uh, quite honestly, that um, the by us going to the games, uh, the olympic movement has survived. If we didn't go to the games, the Olympic movement has survived. If we didn't go to the Games, if some of the Western countries didn't go to those Games, there would be no more Olympics. So, in effect, I think we, you know, held the torch alight for future generations.

Danielle Spurling: 24:08

Yeah, absolutely. I just can't even imagine the pressure that you are under then oh, it was horrific, it was terrible.

Michelle Ford: 24:17

I I well you sort of say why am I? Why am I training? Why am I in the pool? Why am I doing all these hard yards? Um, for for what? Um, so your mind's going all over the place. In one day you go oh look, give it a go, it a go. They haven't yet called it. And then you're sitting on the edge of your seat waiting for another decision. And then the government made them to make another decision, and then even another decision, and so we were battled with three decision-making processes, and that was only. We're only talking four weeks out from the games. This happened four weeks that's.

Danielle Spurling: 24:55

That's just crazy, isn't it? I just it's just hard to imagine because all obviously I was quite young then, so I I didn't sort of know all that sort of stuff behind it. I just watched it on tv and saw you win and saw Mishka the little bear and the opening ceremony and thought, oh wow, this is what I want to do. But you don't realise until you hear someone's story written down like that what was going on behind the scenes. That's why it's such an important story to tell.

Michelle Ford: 25:22

Yeah, thanks, danielle, and I think too, the story is one of the first of an athlete who lived through that journey and also because later after my career I was part of well, I've been privy to the administration of sport and how that all works, and I was able to add the contextual part of it into the story and hopefully expressed it in more simple terms, because it is a complex world of sport is complex and people sort of say, you know, it's, it's the coach, it's the, it's the, the head of the, the sport, and it's the referees. You know. But it's a lot more complex than all that. There's a lot of parameters in it and I think to be able to put that in the story and talk also of the East German girls in the story because I wanted to have that parallel in the book so that there is.

Michelle Ford: 26:33

You know, how we were treated back in Australia was horrific. We had to put up with I call them the men in blue suits other than the girls in blue suits, but the administrators didn't want us. It seemed like they didn't want us to win, they didn't want us to do well and we were hampered every step of the way. Every step of the way. We had problems, and that's not only me, but I think most of the athletes in Australia at least. We were fought with this question of how do we get through our own system? Yes, and yet the East Germans were, you know, looked after. They were given their cars, they were given their houses, they were pampered, they were given massages, they were given all this as a parallel.

Danielle Spurling: 27:30

We were treated like you know um, political pawns in a, in a in a fry pan, just to use us for their own egos yeah, I mean, it's amazing and and amongst that I feel your description of you know, the female athletes, even being female swimmers, being even sort of more harshly dealt with than the male swimmers. The male swimmers having a better hotel, motel and bit, you know, better conditions and being able to go out and all those kind of things, and the female swimmers, no, and and weigh-ins, which still happening today, still happen today, you know, happening you know, and they're still talking about those things today. Why haven't they improved?

Michelle Ford: 28:12

yeah it, it's something that the sports needs to at least give the opportunity. We always used to look to the US as the starring group because we felt that they were much better looked after than we were. And you know, I think it causes a lot of friction, not only up to the administration level, but also in the team itself, because they have and the have-nots and the and it was. It was just so, um so sad to see, you know, the, the females, just being treated um so differently than the males, and probably the males didn't even see that difference because they were living a different world than us. You know that they were allowed the food on the plane and we weren't. We were locked in our rooms for six hours and they were allowed out to the steeplechase just as an adventure. It was just all wrong. It was so wrong.

Danielle Spurling: 29:27

Absolutely, absolutely. I mean, look, we've come a long way. I mean these Olympic Games are going to be 50-50 representation of female and male, but it's taken a long time to get there.

Michelle Ford: 29:38

Yes, and after 1980, President Samaranch, the IOC president, because the IOC was on its knees because they had no, they were, they were struggling to to stay relevant. There was the goodwill games, there was other things happening around, and that the world of sport had come apart at that moment, and I was fortunate to be invited as one of the 25 athletes around the world to address the IOC, and we've got to remember before that the athlete was treated, we weren't allowed a voice, there was no acts. If you opened your mouth, you were condemned and you were punished, whereas now we've opened that door and the I think the our, what we did, uh at that congress, uh, and and um, I say that the sebastian co and thomas bark and and I were in this room writing out the speeches to actually address the congress and say we want gender equality. This is no good.

Michelle Ford: 30:54

To have a 22 percent of female participation, uh, there's no reason for it. Um, also, there was no females in the administration of sport. No ioc member was a female. So that this is only what 40 years ago. I know it sounds a long time, but and we've come a long way, but finally we're 50, 50 in Paris, as you say uh of participation, um numbers numbers numbers yes, it's not exactly 50.

Danielle Spurling: 31:26

50, yeah, yeah exactly and administration wise, because I know you've you've worked at um Commission in Australia and Swimming Australia in the IOC. Now is that becoming a little bit more balanced or is it still heavily weighted in the male favour?

Michelle Ford: 31:45

Look, there's still a long way to go, right, I think in all the sport I think there's, you know, and I sat on the boards and I see the attitude and sure, I mean, when you bring athletes on board, we're strong characters. We have to be in order to succeed. But there is a lot of intelligence in that quorum of athletes and we need to embrace that. And I think there's still a ceiling that has to be broken by moving the age even on, and they keep putting the age limits on. But, for example, in Fa, we had a president who was 80, whatever years of age. How is that? How is that relevant to today? Who sees the athlete of today? Uh, there's too much of a gap and I think there are some good people in sport and we have to let them through the door yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree.

Danielle Spurling: 32:53

I mean I think I hope all the young female swimmers out there read your book because you know I love the fact that you still pursued your academic side of things as well as your swimming, which must have been pretty tough at the time. But you obviously went and studied in the US. How did that impact your swimming long term, do you think?

Michelle Ford: 33:16

Oh, that was my saviour really Going to the US. It was the first time that the NC2As opened. Well, it was under a different title back then, but they opened the door to female title back then, but they opened the door to female scholarships to complete your education with your athletic career. And it was such a I would have given up swimming Because I came back from Moscow, I was offered the first scholarship to the AIS, the Institute of Sport, and when they turned around and said, but you'll only be swimming and you won't be doing education, I said sorry, I've got to reject the offer because I knew I needed my education and if I had another one year, two, of just swimming, I wasn't able. You know, when you finish swimming, you don't. You don't have anything you need. You need an education to fulfill your, your, your life after sport, uh, whatever that looks like, um, but you do need to to maintain that education. And the US was was my saviour in doing that and being able to swim, of course, onto 84.

Danielle Spurling: 34:37

Take us back to the very start of your career, which I mean you had some remarkable achievements at a really young age, like breaking a lot of Shane Gould's early records. How did that sort of shape, what you were going to eventually sort of come into, leading into 1980, those sort of early experiences in Sydney?

Michelle Ford: 34:58

I think that the early experiences is that, um, you know, making the team was was just the biggest and best thing that um and I was 13 at the time, so it did come early in my career, so I didn't have to wait too long. Today that's not possible because they and even back then it was questionable whether you should take such a young athlete across, but I had. My eyes were on winning gold at Montreal, so the age didn't worry me, wasn't a concern to me, but it was to everyone else. I think there was the onslaught, of course, of what we said. The East Germans sort of hit home hard. And when I came back and the treatment of us for the preparation for those games, after making the team all excited, you think, wow, we're going to be looked after, and I'd heard stories and it was a dream.

Michelle Ford: 36:01

But then I started that journey and it was just a tragedy. We were billeted out. We were at the other side of the country, four hours away. The other side of the country, four hours away, three hours in time, changes and no communication with our families, no communication with our coaches. We didn't even have our own coaches. We had no one who knew us or we didn't know anyone. We had to make the new friends on the team and we had to train with coaches who we never, never even knew about. So and I think that was really tough for 13 year olds and 14 year olds, um, and then we got to Moscow and hit the East Germans, so that was.

Michelle Ford: 36:47

That was another rolling ball uh, right, right in front of double whammies, you know, and it, but I do think it makes you strong. I mean it obviously, um, but when I came back from montreal I wanted to to quit swimming, um, and I was had to be, you know, coerced back into the pool and I think a lot of athletes you know you have a bad experience and it kills your dreams and that's what administrators need to understand. You can't kill those dreams. The dreams are the important part of an athletic career.

Danielle Spurling: 37:22

Yeah, that's a great point. I love that when you were 13 in Montreal and at 15 you broke 800 metre world record, which you didn't swim the 800 in Montreal. What made you transition to that longer distance?

Michelle Ford: 37:39

The longer distance was the coercion back into the pool to swim, an event that wasn't one of my pet events. My pet events were the 200 freestyle. Well, the events that I made the 76 games was a 200 freestyle and 200 butterfly and the 400 freestyle in fact. But when I came back, the media is very, very persuasive here and, and you know, if you did a bad time, I I felt that it would have been a quick, you know, crucifying me for the rest of my career. So I didn't want to go out like that. My coach said let's go into a race that you've never swum before and see how you feel. And sadly for me, because I don't like the 800, I didn't like the distances, but I still swam so well that I was very close to the world record time just by swimming my first 800. And then that became a target. Yeah, silly things happen, but you know, sometimes you don't get to choose what you're good at yes, yes, exactly right.

Danielle Spurling: 38:52

And when you broke that world record, um, when you were 15. What do you remember about that? That race, that day?

Michelle Ford: 38:59

It was such a funny story because I'd gone up to this was a new program in Australia. Australia was critical that we hadn't any international competition. We'd only compete twice a year and once nationally. So and we had no international competition except for the Olympic Games and the Commonwealth Games, and that was it. There was no. The World Championships had just started at that time, so there was just before, but not like we see today. So we were critical.

Michelle Ford: 39:34

The sport had to do something. So there was a sponsor who came to the fore and said let's do a different set-up a finals, just finals, finals. And I said that's me, I can just swim once and that will do me. So, yeah, I went up and swam, I was swimming along and you know, I was out in front and I all of a sudden clicked over into a song, but only two lines of the song and it just went over and over and over in my head.

Michelle Ford: 40:09

So I totally lost count of the 16 laps that I had to swim, and waiting for that whistle to blow was the longest, because I thought have I overstepped my mark, have I gone too far? But when the whistle blows you have two laps left, and when I heard that whistle, I go. Yes, I've got two laps left Off, I go and I broke the world record and it was out of the blue in a way for me and I beat the East Germans time. So I obviously had it in me and I wouldn't say it's a relaxing swim. No, swim is relaxing, but to sing a song, you're in a zone and that zone gives you that energy. I guess and I've heard a lot of swimmers since say I'm in that zone and that zone is the ultimate moment that yeah, it obviously works.

Danielle Spurling: 41:15

What was your breathing pattern? Did you have one or did you just breathe when you needed to? No, every three.

Michelle Ford: 41:21

Every three. I was always no every three, every three. I was always coached every three. I was very regular on my breathing and you know, in swimming you can have different body types but you can all achieve the same time. I mean, I know that now is a bit more, they seem like they're more one body type, but back then we were all different body types. But you achieve the same goal and each one has a different stroke, so no one stroke works. We didn't have the biomechanical data nor the physiology of how to you know and the nutrition, and there was no scientific research.

Michelle Ford: 42:13

And I must say, going back to the East Germans, I believe that they actually introduced that into the sport because they weren't only doping, they were also using different methods of coaching and using the lactates, using the um, breathing per lap, using the um, the recuperation and, uh, dynamics, uh, with the heavy workload and how much rest you need and giving the athlete the rest. We never got that rest. We were just flogged and flogged and flogged and flogged and that's why I always work better with my first coach and to do 90%. And that's what they're doing today. They're doing the 80%, 90% hit outs rather than the up and downs, so it's become more exciting. I wish I was a swimmer today. I know, I know are you?

Michelle Ford: 43:12

in the water at all these days. Yeah, yeah, I still, I still swim, uh I. I use it as my what I call my zen moment. Um, all my mind thinks and puts things in order. So I think it's a beautiful sport and um, it's good on the body and it uh I I think it's, um we just yeah, it being in the the water is is for me, uh, just my element how many um sort of opportunities in pools do you get in spitzeland?

Michelle Ford: 43:44

yeah, look, I, I started up an adult, um, swim, swim school, uh, and so I, I, I teach, I teach the adults, um, and I, I, you know, swim myself and they're they're myself, and there are pools around. There's less access than there is in Australia for pools, but I come back to Australia very often too, and, yes, I love the ocean. Yes, yes, and we are lucky here to have the ocean at our front door.

Danielle Spurling: 44:20

Yes, oh lovely. What do you think sets Australian swimmers apart from the rest of the world? Because I think the culture that they have around the team now is looking, I think, a lot better than it was a few years ago. What do you think about that culture and what we do here in Australia?

Michelle Ford: 44:41

Look, I agree with you and I think that it's where I borrow the idea of the team. They've become a team. We were individuals, although we were a team and had great friendship. We were just a group of individuals thrown together and they never brought us in as a team, and I think that is one of the most important factors for performance is to have a group behind you and all going for the same thing.

Michelle Ford: 45:15

So the jealousies are taken out, and sure, we're not talking about competition, we're talking about jealousy and there's a difference between the two, and I think we suffered a lot of jealousies from the administration down and jealousy was probably part of the culture, not between athletes, it was more. But you felt that coming down Today I hear that now they've got their own coaches on deck. The coaches, if they've got the swimmer on the team, they have access to their athlete and that makes a huge difference and the coaches themselves are more aligned with each other than back in the day when they were also individuals. So I think there's a mending of that and you know more of a group help and they obviously have all the external assistance as well that we didn't have, and they have psychologists, and I think that is like I did sports psych, my master's in sports psych, and I see you know it's like in business that it's about performance, it's about reaching further. How do you get those goals and where do we go with those? And I think that's what's born into it and trained and pampered in a way to increase the performance options that they have. And you know, you can see it on deck how um they stand with more uh, they stand proud they're, they're positive, they're you know you, when you talk to them, they're more um, happier people.

Michelle Ford: 47:14

I think I say that in a general term, but happier people on the deck. And where we were straggly little kids, you know we were, even though we had a role, but we were just teenagers. And now they're, of course, 28, 29, 30s and I can see why they stay in From Baden-Baden in the Congress of the IOC. And sorry to take this back to that, but that's when we asked for the opening of the amateur rule. Before we couldn't earn money. Today they can, and by us, the athletes, having that voice and opening that up and forcing the administration to open up the opportunity for athletes to earn money. We see that today and I think that was a huge win for athletes to actually be able to earn money.

Danielle Spurling: 48:21

I mean, it's a huge legacy that you've left the sport by being able to do that from your own successes and then having that academic and education side behind you. I'm sure that was one of the reasons that you were chosen to go to Baden-Baden because you're articulate and able to express those thoughts. So the swimmers that are on our team or about to be on our team today, I hope that they read this book as well, so that they know what you did, yeah.

Michelle Ford: 48:50

I think it's an important part of who they are today and it's so, so important. I did, actually, in writing this book. I wrote a book for the IOC on the athlete's voice and traced with a German professor and traced the program from Baden-Baden and on to today, so on to 2000. But it's an important part of the history of why they they're able now to live in their five-star hotels or whatever. You know, there's more money in sport because of it. Sport, I mean sure it's changing and and we know that it's changing again today, but at least it's set a new standard and one that you know now the athlete can stay until they're 33. But back then you had to go and get a job. You had no choice.

Danielle Spurling: 49:52

I wanted to finish off today by asking you about some of the coaches that you've worked with, like Bill Sweetenum, don Talbot, dick Kane, who was the toughest and who did you enjoy working with the most?

Michelle Ford: 50:06

Oh, they were all tough. They were all very, very tough. There's tough and tough. What we did with Don Talbot was just crazily tough. I mean it just blew my mind that he would invent anything and it's to do.

Michelle Ford: 50:33

And I think the coaches that worked the best for me were those who understood that the challenge you've got to put a challenge in front of the athlete, you have to keep challenging them. You have to say and give them a goal, even though it's like in a training set, I think there's a goal that has to when you want performance, when you want them to stretch out and get that little bit extra that we search for for the threshold and everything else. I think there's that. And if a coach can read you, you well, I've always said a good coach is an artist as well. They're a bit crazy. A lot of them are very crazy. No, don't take that wrong, you coaches, but I'm probably crazy too. So, um, I think it's more so as well reading your athlete.

Michelle Ford: 51:22

And if you can read the athlete and I always said a good coach has to know is a good trainer of animals, like my first coach was a good trainer of horses and he went out and he coached the horses and then come back to the pool and coach us. But a horse doesn't talk, of course, and you have to learn to read the signs and I think that's the sign of a good coach. And toughness. Sadly, it is tough. Swimming is tough, but it's also a team sport. And people think not, but it's a team sport and people think not, but it is a team sport. And the camaraderie in there and the joy you have in in just having your teammates, uh, I think overrides any of you know you're living the same thing, so you all go through the same program.

Michelle Ford: 52:16

Uh, so you know, and it's achieving your results, whatever they are. They don't have to be the gold medal, but they could be, you know, just a time, or just feeling good in the water. So, as long as you all continually set your goals, I think that that's and the coach has to be part of that. They have to feed that to you.

Danielle Spurling: 52:44

Michelle, it's been such a pleasure talking to you today. I could talk to you all day because I love hearing about all these stories, but I really probably do need to let you go. So thank you, thank you very, very much and wishing you every success with the book, and we'll put a link to the book, um, and where people can buy it in our show notes so that they can check it out brilliant.

Michelle Ford: 53:05

Thank you very much and thanks again and um to all your listeners. Um, you know you're, you're a great interviewer.

Danielle Spurling: 53:12

You've gone over every single point oh good, I'm glad we covered it all thank you very much for having me on the show. Okay, thanks, michelle Bye.

Michelle Ford: 53:27

Okay, cheers.

Danielle Spurling: 53:29

Thanks to Michelle for her honesty and generosity in sharing her story with us today on the podcast. I've put a link to her new book Turning the Tide in today's show notes. It's a really great read and well worth checking out. Till next time, happy swimming and bye for now.