Gloria born with low vision in 1949 talks about her transition to a cane user at age of 40

Gloria grew up with low vision, she couldn’t read street signs or see important details but moved about her world with her peers. She remembered having no difficulty getting around her hometown or otherwise, until she lost more of her vision when she was 40 years old. That caused her to lose her job and relearn how to get about places she knew well. It also brought her to a new profession. 

Gloria’s memory of her companion encouraging her to use her cane as a turning point in her independence was sincere. She shared how difficult it had been to let go of the person she once was, and embrace the tools in her new life.

Her mobility instruction was for 3 weeks – it covered little apparently because she had no place to go- which makes no sense. How do you have a place to go if you have no ability to go there independently. She made up for her lack of instruction by getting a master’s degree in the field of blindness – and now shares her knowledge and personal experience with her students.

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Transcript

 Q. You’re number 47 so

 A. Wow. I’m impressed.

 Q. I’m hoping to do about 100.

 A. O.k. 

 Q. Yeah.

 A. Alright. Good it sounds good.

 Q. OK so you’re ready to get going?

 A. I’m ready.

 Q. State and spell your full name.

 A. My full name? Alright it’s Gloria

 Q. And your date of birth?

 A. September 3rd 1949.

 Q. And where were you born?

A. In Patterson, New Jersey.

Q. And where do you live now?

A. Excuse me?

Q. Where do you live now?

A. Oh, Toms River, New Jersey.

Q. And what do you do for a living?

A. I’m an education consultant for the New Jersey Commission for the blind.

Q. Where did you go to college?

A. Undergraduate degree was at Seton Hall University, in South Orange, New Jersey and graduate degree was at Hunter College.

Q. And your highest degree is your masters?

A. Yes it is.

Q. How long have you had vision impairment?

A. Since birth.

Q. And what’s the name of it?

A. Uh (laugh) there’s lots. It’s retinal coloboma, optic atrophy, iris atrophy, glaucoma. Um…we have a cataract and a misshaped pupil. That’s all just the left eye. The right eye is basically just a retinal coloboma.

Q. So what’s your vision, how do describe it?

A. It is, as the doctors would describe it basically finger counting, at approximately 2 to 3 feet, both eyes.

Q. When did you first realize that you were visually impaired?

A. That’s a tough one. I always thought everybody saw as I did.

Q. Sure.

A. I did. 

Q. Yeah.

A. I didn’t know any other visually impaired people. I was mainstreamed at school um at a time when I wasn’t norm. 

Q. Yeah.

A. um..I don’t know I guess it was more in my probably when I started school.

Q. Uh.huh what was sort if the clue what was the tip off? Was there any sort of?

A. Um..number one is when I was being picked last for all the teams.

Q. Yeah.

A. (laugh) which is really true. 

Q. Yeah.

A. That type of thing. Sometimes a little bit of over protectiveness by family and friends.

Q. In what way? 

A. You know as far as when you’re younger with street crossings, bike riding that kind of thing.

Q. How did you get the feeling or how did you know that it was different? You were being treated different from someone else, you know, your age?

A. Well I think there was always it’s hard to say because they really did give me free rein also. You know I guess it was just kind of tough to try to balance it. Um

Q. Were you restricted in any way?

A. Not really. As long as they were aware of who I was with.

Q. Uh hhuh. What do you mean?

A. In other words, if they knew who my friends were and I was with friends if they knew that they would think watch out for me. But it was never a real over protectiveness.

Q. When did you first learn to travel independent of another person?

A. I always did that. I have always been an independent traveler. I had better vision up until 1987.

Q. OK. 

A. OK? Um then with complications in the visual eye. I lost the good peripheral vision I had trained myself to use. That’s when I started using a cane. Prior to that I didn’t use a cane.

Q. So what are your childhood memories of riding bikes, traveling?

A. I just remember getting on a bike and yelling at a friend wait for me (laugh).

Q. Uh huh.

A. Started pedaling like crazy. That was um..you know that was my first memory of riding a bike. A neighbor taught me. A neighbor you know friend. 

Q. Uh huh.

A. And he took off down the street and I was like don’t leave me here (laugh) got on the bike and started pedaling but then I didn’t know how to stop (laugh).

Q. Right.

A. The same thing with roller skates if there wasn’t a parked car in the street I couldn’t stop you know.

Q. Yeah. I had that same problem. 

A. You know like um really as far as any other restrictions there weren’t any. There really weren’t. I did everything that everybody else did basically.

Q. So walking to school? 

A. Walking to school I was, I was fine yeah.

Q. Go by yourself?

A. Yes I did.

Q. Public transit?

A. When it came time for high school and that? Yeah. I would take the public bus to school.

Q. Did anybody do anything special to teach you or?

A. No. I had no mobility.

Q. I mean in terms of your mom or your dad?

A. My mom and dad? I guess when it came time for high school and that it was just a whole group of us were going.

Q. Uh huh.

A. So we went as a group.

Q. Right.

A. Um when I did college. Cause, I did go to Seton Hall they had annex in Patterson, which was ideal of me because I could just take the bus from my street corner down to city hall and Patterson, walk one block and I was at school. And I had done going into Patterson you know like nights and weekends Saturdays and that shopping with my mother that was pre mall days.

Q. Sure.

A. So I was familiar with the bus routes. So I guess that was the training that I had for college.

Q. Do you remember having any difficulty learning your way around your schools or getting lost?

A. Um no. Not in grammer—not high school and college because they were both relatively small buildings at the time. They are, they’re not…they weren’t quite as massive.

Q. Elementary?

A. Elementary it was just one building. You know and the teachers were all aware of the vision. I think I was the only legally blind student in the school. 

Q. It sounds like a lot of the time is spent traveling with others. Is that right or?

A. Um. See it was more like we would go as a group. 

Q. Yeah.

A. It wasn’t that was someone was being sent out to give me mobility.

Q. Right.

A. Because we all sort if just hung out together.

Q. Uh huh.

A. It was kind of the norm. 

Q. Yeah.

A. A whole bunch of us from my neighborhood. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  You know we’d all travel over to school together. Coming home from elementary school and that I know I did that on my own.

Q. Uh huh.

A. And that was only a couple of blocks away. I do remember that the crossing guard used to always hold my hand as we crossed the street. 

Q. Uh huh.

A. That I do remember.

Q. And how did that make you feel?

A. I don’t think it affected me in either way. Truthfully.

Q. Did you ever have any close calls with the street crossing when you did it by yourself?

A. No, no. Also it was at a time it was a very town; you could actually cross the street with out having to look I both directions (laugh).

Q. Why is that?

A. Unless it was like 4 o’clock and the aerospace plant was letting out. I mean otherwise there was no traffic. It was a small suburban town. You know it wasn’t that it rural it was just a small suburban town. It’s grown since but when I was growing up I mean half of what was there was still woods. 

Q. Yeah.

A. You know so; it wasn’t a big place to go from point A to point B through town. Cause it was nothing at either end either.

Q. Do you remember how you learned about addresses and street signs and um?

A. Street signs I could never read. What I did was I think it was told to me and I just memorized them. 

Q. Uh huh.

A. And addresses it was always given more as to the 3rd house on the whatever side. Um cause addresses were not visible either.

Q. Right. So in terms of today do you still not use addresses or?

A. I still don’t have the ability to read them even with a monocular.

Q. So you use a cane?

A. I do use a cane today.

 Q. What kind of cane?

A. A folding cane.

Q. What kind of tip?

 A. Roller, rolling.

Q. Rolling?

A. Yep.

Q. What kind of roller?

A. I guess it’s a marshmallow roller.

Q. Marshmallow roller. How many different types of mobility tools have you tried?

A. That’s it, that and sighted guide.

Q. So have you ever tried a different kind of tip besides the roller?

A. Yeah, I tried that I don’t know what’s its called but it was a huge ball.

Q. Uh huh.

A.  It was supposed to be great for ground travel.

Q. Did it look like an actual tennis ball?

A. Yeah it was a good size ball OK I think it was red actually. I hated it.

Q. Why?

A. Well I didn’t mind it if I was taking a walk. Just a general walk but when I was doing my graduate school at Hunter, it was horrible feedback on the subway step.

Q. Oh. What happened?

A. Well, I just knew it was not giving me what I should be getting.

Q. Like what?

A. Because I could feel myself get very cautious—

Q. Uh huh.

A. As far as, you know, approaching of a step or even, you know, going down it just wasn’t the right feedback for me. So that quickly came off (laugh).

Q. Right.

A. It was more like bouncing than giving me anything.

Q. So when did you get mobility?

A. Mobility? 

Q. Uh huh.

A. Actually when I had lost vision and I went up to our rehab center in New Brunswick as a client of the Commission. 

Q. So that was after college?

A. Oh yes.

Q. And what year was that?

A. 1989-90.

Q. Uh huh. And do you remember what was the method used to teach you?

A. The method used? 

Q. Uh huh.

A. It really wasn’t a two touch or two point touch or anything. It was basically just extending the cane as identification. 

Q. Uh huh.

Q. And to also determine surface area changes.

Q. So was there a name to that technique?

 A. No not that I’m aware of.

 Q. Like diagonal or?

A. No I don’t think it would really be a diagonal.

Q. Well how do you hold the cane?

A. Its kind of just held out. As it would if you know if you were going to do a touch. But just held out in front.

Q. Do you still do that?

A. A lot of times depending on the situation. 

Q. Uh huh.

A. If I’m in a totally unfamiliar situation or there’s a lot of shadow and things like that I will use a what is it a two touch technique? You know from side to side. If its an area like say I’m walking through a mall or something I will just hold it, you know, directly out in front of me.

Q. So in 89-90 when you went was that now that you had some serious visual loss?

A. I had a loss yeah.

Q. And you took yourself to the rehab.

A. Yes.

Q. Because you were in the field and you knew where to go?

A. No I wasn’t in the field. No, no. I had lost my I was working actually only as a supervisor of the main mailroom, in an aerospace plant. 

Q. Oh.

A. I had done that because I could be independent and walk to work.

Q. I see. So this field is?

A.  This is new.

Q. Relatively new?

A. I started with the Commission in 1993, as a rehab teacher.

Q. Oh ok. So, did you get some training with the agency training?

 A. Yes. Yes.

Q. Neat. So now you said in your mobility method was they’d really didn’t give you much of a training?

A. Uh hm. No.

Q. So did you feel a little gypped by that now that you know more about it?

A. Actually I kind of picked up a whole lot while it was going from my own degree (laugh).

Q. With the college classes? The O&M?

A. Yeah. A lot of that I did for my own self-improvement. 

Q. Uh huh.

A. A lot of the whole course situation was. 

Q. Yeah.

A. You know I mean a lot of it was very practical for me. 

Q. Sure.

A.  so I would go back and start to implement it immediately. 

Q. Neat.

A. And then I would also bring out to the people you know the clients I was working with. 

Q. Sure.

A. So it filled two voids (laugh).

Q. Yeah. So I mean how long did you learn mobility for?

A. Not very.

Q. Just like a week or something?

A. No I would say it was about three weeks maybe. And we did a bus trip.

Q. You did a bus?

A. We did the bus trip. We walked into the center of New Brunswick and did some shopping and that type of thing.

Q. Do you feel like that was sufficient?

A. Um at the time yes.

Q. Because?

A. Uh because I didn’t have a lot of need for much else. You know like I was unemployed. We did take trips into New York every once in a while at night to go the theater.

Q. As a group?

A. Uh huh. And then I ended up doing sided guide.

Q. I see.

A. With the cane, which was even funnier.

Q. Why is that?

A. Well the other girl also had a cane because she was totally blind so there were two of us tromping through New York only because I was familiar with the city. If it had been an area that I was unfamiliar with I don’t think I would been as happy to do it. You know.

Q. Right. Do you think what you brought to mobility was valued by your O&M instructor?

A. By my O&M instructor?

Q. Yeah.

A. I think it was really. Yeah I do.

Q. Do you think they had--he or she had a good understanding of your needs at that time?

A. At that time? Yes I do. Yes. I mean I did try to tell her that I do fly a lot you know. A trip to San Diego wouldn’t have been out of the question.

Q. Uh you’re joking?

A. Of course. 

Q. But I mean seriously though in terms of--

A. I’m serious. I did tell her that though. Truthfully I mean you know.

Q. You would have like gone to the airport you wanted to maybe get?

A. Well I would have liked to have done a train. 

Q. Yeah.

A. OK? Or um even wandering though an airport. 

Q. Sure.

A.  You know that type of thing.

Q. Yeah.

A. But at that time, um there really wasn’t the need. I did, I was told that when I was starting the Hunter program that if I needed it I would be able to get mobility.

Q. Right. Did you take him up on it?

A. No. It didn’t work out that way. I went in a couple of times that with people that were sighted and I did a couple walk throughs, I took some notes, you know brailed them out.

Q. So you went people who were sighted what do you mean by that?

A. In other words go through my commute to Hunter from Tom’s River.

Q. Who were these people?

A. Actually it was my mother and a friend. 

Q. Uh huh.

A. We went in for the day and we took a couple trips up to Hunter. 

Q. Neat.

A. From Port Authority

Q. Neat.

A. As I would have had to do. And um.

Q. What sort of notes did you take? What sort of things did you Braille to yourself?

A. Oh I brailed to myself? What side of the platform the train would be coming on. 

Q. Uh huh.

A. Getting off how many stops and then walking across the 51st street station. Um going you don’t have to go underneath the track so I didn’t have to you know but then it would be you know. It was just I actually brailed out my route.

Q. Right. Any landmarks or anything that you would use?

A. Well yeah basically it was the first set of steps. 

Q. Right.

A. In Port Authority you know on the right-hand side and then going down the steps it was a platform on the left and then I would count stops so I knew. And I also knew at the point at 51st street to just follow the crowd right up the escalator—

Q. Yeah.

A. I, you know so that was fine. And I also knew that to get on to the 6, you know, it was just straight across the platform you know the terminal and then I counted stops to Hunter. And I figured out the direction I had to walk to get, you know, into the building or to get up the stairs by the building. 

Q.  Right.

A. I mean I really, I what I did before I would go to bed at night or whatever I would actually work it through it my mind—

Q. Uh huh.

A. and visualize it. 

Q. Yeah.

A. I did a lot of visualization of that trip. 

Q. Yeah.

A. And coming home. 

Q. So is it safe to say your mobility instructor handed you a roller tip that was the very first cane you got?

A. That was it.

Q. And um that’s.

A. We tried nothing else.

Q. Then you have no other experience but for a very what am trying to say…for all intents and purposes that works well for you. You like the feel of that?

A. Yes. Yeah. I do like the feel of it.

Q. How many canes do you own? 

A. Let’s see I just threw one away yesterday. Literally. 

Q. Oh.

A. I did. The bungies keep breaking. 

Q. Oh.

A. Um I own one; there’s always a spare one in my suitcase.

Q. For trips?

A. For trips oh yeah, in fact, I broke one once on vacation. 

Q. Oh.

A. So I have learned--and I had a spare in my suitcase so thank goodness. 

Q. Yeah.

A. There’s one, two I must have about four.

Q. 4? And how do you decide which one you’re going to use? One is in the suitcase as a backup for trips.

A. That’s in the backup for trips and right now I have one I don’t even know what kind it is to tell you the truth. It’s a little thinner than some of them. 

Q. Uh huh.

A. That’s the one--it’s fairly new so that’s the one that I grabbed yesterday. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  After I threw the other one away. One of them is-- 

Q. Are they all folding?

A. Yes, they are, they’re all folding. One of them is uh it’s in fairly decent shape but I just don’t like the way the bungie holds it together. You know the knot on it. It’s too much play. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  So that I can’t hold it properly. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  You know what I mean. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  It just dangles and the cane just almost opens. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  You know I mean that’s part of my, you know when I’m traveling. 

Q. Right.

A.  I mean that’s part of my decision. But yes, I am using a new one right now.

Q. Neat. So, you like to have the newest one?

A. The others are more for back up. 

Q. Back up and what they stay at home?

A. Yes, yes. Actually, there’s an extra one in the car I lied I have five.

Q. In the car?

A. There’s one in the car. The reason being and this is reasoning for this. I was going into New York one day, but I was leaving from North Jersey from a cousin’s house, and I left my cane home. Cause I had other things in my hand I was going directly into a car. 

Q. Right.

A.  And that day I did a sighted guide with my friend through the city--

Q. Oh.

A.   Because I didn’t have that cane. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  So now there is always a spare in the car.

Q. Yup. Sounds like a plan. 

A. (laugh).

Q. Um what do you do about subways? You have any tips that you developed for boarding or getting on or off?

A. The only thing that I have done that has worked for me is if there is a number of few trains coming into that station, I generally don’t ask is this the E or is this the F or this is the R whatever. I’ll ask what train is this? 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  Because it’s just too easy for someone else to misunderstand and just say yeah, you know, when it’s not.

Q. With your vision are you able to look at the door visually and seats?

A. Yes, yes.

Q. Do you ever feel like the subway platform is when are some bad visual conditions for you on the subway?

A. When is it bad? 

Q. Yeah.

A.  After a very long day. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  Seriously. Things get very, very blurry. Sometimes I don’t know how I’ve gotten home I think it was just on autopilot. Some of them are very dim.

Q. And so do you do anything different when it’s a much dimmer place?

A. I try to stay more towards the light. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  I also try to stay more towards people. 

Q. So sort of following people?

A. Yeah, yeah.

Q. How do you get to and from work?

A. Me? 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  Oh, I have the best of all jobs. I have a driver assistant. Picks me up at home.

Q. Neat. Now did you hire this person?

A. No.

Q. Did you select them?

A. He actually came with the job. He was a driver for a person that was doing the job prior to me but if I had to select him, I would have.

Q. What sort of qualities in your mind make a good driver?

A. Well first of all he’s intelligent which is a big help. He’s also a good sounding board where um if I run into a problem of if, you know, just need to discuss something with somebody you know he’s there.  He will listen. I always tell him he keeps me grounded. You know. He’s very conscientious, which is important to me. He doesn’t call out sick at the drop of a hat, which is something else that’s important to me. 

Q. Sure. What happens if your driver’s sick?

A. Oh (cough) Excuse me. I had a problem with a former driver that I had only for a couple months last year where he actually took off two months and I had called in every favor from family and friends to drive me for the day for those two months. Otherwise, I would have to sit in the office. 

Q. Right.

A.  And that wasn’t fair to the clients I work with. 

Q. Right.

A.  So, we got reimbursement for mileage, but family and friends got me out everyday but one, which um but I then found out I can’t do this anymore. I mean these people have lives; you know then I got my own driver back. 

Q. So I thought you had this driver?

A. I did but it was a very short time that he was working with a new employee OK that type of thing. And the driver that I had ended taking off more than he was in. And then he ended taking a two-month leave. So, it was you know while I had him no less you know so eventually drivers were changed around and I got my driver back. 

Q. Neat.

A.  Because we do work very well as a team. 

Q. So intelligent.

A. Conscientious, Reliable.

A. Reliable extremely reliable. You know good listener.

Q. In terms of making the route decisions who’s in control with that?

A. I tell him where I have to be and what time I have to be there, and he gets me there.

Q. Neat. Does, do you ever have him assist you in anyway in your work?

A. Well as a rehab teacher, he would do the marking of the stoves, washers, and dryers and that. OK that was all he did. As an education consultant, the only thing he does now is if I am doing a functional vision evaluation. He will assist me.

Q. Oh how does he assist you?

A. He will take measurements of distances. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  And while I’m working with a distance chart.  He’ll you know watch my students. See if they start to lean forward to get that little bit closer kind of thing. Um watch for head tilts.

Q. Did you train him or?

A. We both went out in the field with other, you know Ed teachers and observed. And I knew what had to be done. 

Q. Right.

A.  So, I just kind of went through the procedure with him and explained to him what I wanted him to be able to watch for. 

Q. Right.

A.  And that was basically our training.

Q. How does he let you know? Does he just say it right in front of the child?

A. Yeah. He’ll just say you know or as we’re working it. See I, I’ve done a lot with my distance charts where I’ve brailed each of the pages so as they’re reading the numbers off the page. I’ve got the Braille there so I’m reading the Brailled copy. 

Q. Right.

A.  And I can generally tell when they miss a letter or two letters on a line. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  Um and he, you know, generally usually just say” Uh” you know that kind of thing. And I say yeah, they did a great job and then we just stop (laugh). You know he doesn’t point out like oh he missed a couple or “oh” you know that type of thing. We kinda just sort of discuss it after the fact. 

Q. Afterwards.

A. Yeah. Yeah.

Q. What about when you’re not at work? What sorts of modes of transportation do you use?

A. When I’m not at work. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  I get out alone I’m down here in no man’s land where there’s no buses. Other than, you know, going into New York and that. I do a lot of car travel with friends and family. Actually today, it’s funny you should ask. I finally called Access Link for myself, 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  After all this time. So of course now they have to send me all the new information. 

Q. Right.

A.  And I call and make my appointment. I’m not three-quarters of a mile off a bus route though. Which means I’ll either have to taxi or you know find a ride to their pickup point. 

Q. Ohh.

A.  But it will get me where I have to go. 

Q. Interesting.

A.  Everybody I wanted is with this three quarters of a mile so it’s only at my end that’s the difficulty. 

Q. So explain that to me.

A. The Access Link?

Q. The three-quarters of a mile.

A. Apparently with New Jersey Transit if you live within three quarters of a mile of a transit bus or train route they will pick you up at the door, at your door and transport you to where you have to go. 

Q. Right.

A.  As long as that is also within three-quarters of a mile. Now this is the way I’m to understand now. I didn’t get all their new updated information. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  But from what I’m gathering I don’t think that has changed all that much.

Q. So in other words if you’re farther away from a bus stop or a train stop?

A. You still have too yeah you would have to find another way to get their pickup location.

Q. Which is like a typical bus stop or it’s just a pickup location that they have?

A. Um well the one for me would not be a typical bus stop because the bus does not run down through 37th. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  But there is a designated stop um and I would say it’s maybe what a mile and half maybe two miles down the road. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  You know from the house.

Q. Well that’s as farther away than three-quarters of a mile?

A. Well I have to get to that pickup location.

Q. Because its farther away from three quarters of a mile?

A. I don’t know. I don’t understand them either.

Q. Interesting.

A. I think the pickup location is a little bit closer to the bus terminal. OK? 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  In fact, I actually thought I would have had to go the bus terminal to pick it up. But someone had said no they would pick you up on route 37 rather than having to go down to the terminal. So, in that regard, it’s closer than I thought it would have been but it’s still not door-to-door.

Q. Right. 

A. Yeah.

Q. So what do you plan on doing with that, what made you decide?

A. Me? Well one of the things is I’ll be able to get up to the rehab center just in case I don’t have my driver. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  And uh you know with far as meetings and things like that. I also have friends that live up that way. 

Q. Yeah.

A.   For socialization. I can also I mean, you know, at some point take it for doctor’s appointments and things like that. 

Q. Right.

A.  So actually, it’s just to give me another tool to use.

Q. Right.

A. I’ve been telling all my clients to do this for I don’t how long you know I mean it’s like the shoemaker with holes in their shoes. 

Q. (laugh).

A.  Telling you, I finally get around to calling today and I’m like oh no I have to get the packet of literature again (laugh).

Q. That’s cool.

A. It’s a start. It’s a start.

Q. What’s sorts of ways do you, not reimburse but um for people that give you rides places. What sorts of things do you do?

A. Oh I do gas money. Or sometimes if they refuse to take money of any kind, take them to dinner or to lunch or something.  Oh yeah.

Q. Have you ever been disoriented?

A. Have you ever been disoriented.(whispers) Let me think about that. Recently no. I’m trying to think about…(pauses) I’m thinking. Actually, it might have been like in an Atlantic City Casino. 

Q. Oh.

A. Yeah.

Q.  What happened?

A. Well I’m just walking out of the ladies’ room and I’m like OK now, which way did I come from? (laugh) 

Q. So do you remember what you did?

A. Actually I just wandered around for a little while and then I retraced my steps back. And then I went through--I use visualization a lot Grace. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  And then I just kind of visualized what I had done after the, after the panic settled. You know. 

Q. Right.

A.  It wasn’t a severe panic, but I was like, you stupid idiot (laugh). I always beat myself up. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  You know and then I just kind of worked my way back. 

Q. How do you feel about traveling alone to unfamiliar places?

A. Um unfamiliar? Sometimes unsettling.  I really, really prefer to be orientated to it. And if I can’t be on-site orientated. I’d like it to be done at least verbally as to what to anticipate. 

Q. So give me an example of say a new place you’re going to and how you got orientated to it?

A. I haven’t done any traveling on my own for a while. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  Um … (pause) I’m thinking. Alright just as a point in fact just going into a new store. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  Alright. Usually instead of walking the perimeter of the store you know just a whole bit. I’ll just have someone tell me what department is where. OK? 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  And then find that for myself. I usually find the cash register by just listening to noises. Cause you can hear them.

Q. Right. So, like who would tell you?

A. Well it would be anybody. I mean if I’m with somebody I would have them orientate me. Because I don’t always shop with somebody. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  They go one way I go another way. Um otherwise, I would ask a salesclerk. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  I mean I’ve been known to go a salesclerk and ask what color is this? 

Q. Yeah.

A.  You know?

Q. What about travel out of town? How do you prepare for travel to unfamiliar places? Do you ever go out of town by yourself? I mean.

A. The only time ever in this place is I’ve really traveled anymore by myself is New York and I’m pretty familiar with New York. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  You know that doesn’t bother me.

Q. So you haven’t taken that trip to San Diego yet? 

A. Well I‘ve gone to San Diego but I’ve gone with a friend. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  You know I like to travel with people. 

Q. Well yeah.

A.  It’s more fun.

Q. Well of course. If you can do it, you should.

A. I mean you know. No, I do. I do a lot of traveling. I mean I’ve been through Europe and the Orient and 

Q. Wow.

A.  Um I’ve done a good portion of the United States. 

Q. Just always with people, with friends?

A. Well yeah. 

Q. Neat.

A.  It’s a vacation.

Q. I got you.

A. I haven’t had to take any business trips or anything on my own.

Q. So is this always like um with friends and so do you then have any sort of preparing them as to what you what might need from them or just is that just like anything at all?

A. Um well the friends that I travel with had known me with better vision and then when I lost the vision, and I used the cane actually he was the one that told me I was an idiot because the cane was in my suitcase. Um like on the first trip I guess after I started using a cane, I’d leave it the suitcase. 

Q. Oh.

A.  I got yelled at. (laugh) 

Q. Oh.

A.  And I think from that day I started using my cane. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  He was like “if you think it’s going to bother me, its not”. I said it doesn’t bother me to carry it either, so I guess I’ll use it. 

Q. Neat.

A.  You know I can still remember it was in Sacramento. 

Q. Do you remember was there some sort of incident that maybe?

A. Only because Sacramento, at that time, it was before ADA. Um and there were it was like wooden boardwalks along in the old town along the stores and it was a couple steps up walk along the boardwalk a couple steps down. You know. 

Q. Right.

A.  And with shadows and brown, and brown ground the whole bit. Contrast wasn’t so great. And of course, I was always hesitant with the step and that’s when he said “ you know if you’d use you’re damn cane.” 

Q. What a sweetie.

A. I was like OK. And from that day on I carried a cane. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  That was it, 

Q. Neat.

A.  That was my turning point. I just needed somebody to push me (laugh).

Q. So, was it, what do you think it was that you resisted it? Why do you think you resisted?

A.I don’t think it was so much. Maybe part of it was me. Cause again it was an outward symbol. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  And I had to come to terms with that cause it was a tough time. 

Q. Sure.

A.  You know right after the loss of vision. And you know I wasn’t feeling real good about myself cause I didn’t have a job. I’m on disability and you know it was just a tough time in my life. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  And it, I guess by him just saying, “well it’s not going to bother me”. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  You know it was enough to figure well OK if it isn’t going to bother you, I guess it shouldn’t bother me either. 

Q. Right.

A.  And that was it. 

Q. Neat. 

A. Yeah.

Q. How do you establish your position in the environment?

A. How do I establish my position in the environment?

Q. How do you know where you are?

A. I do a lot of listening.

Q. Listening to what?

A. Um well depends on where I am. You know. On the street, I’m basically familiar with where I’m at, here. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  You know just sounds of cars and directions they’re headed in.

Q. What does that tell you?

A. It usually tells me it’s about where I am. On some of our roads, I can tell where I am by the color of the divider on the road. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  You know even the color if the road. Cause we have one road that’s very-very white, 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  for a certain amount of time and then it turns into McAdam. 

Q. Neat.

A.  So, I know exactly where I am.

Q. And when it turns into McAdam it changes colors?

A. Yeah, yeah. Or like a wide-open space will tell me that I’m near the golf course.

Q. Neat. 

A. The shapes of the buildings, things like that. 

Q. Oh.

A.  Ok Sometimes that will so it.

Q. Like for example?

A. Um I always know that when I’m approaching a specific street, which we call church road, coming down the major road because there is this, it’s, it’s, and old church. A white church, 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  that’s sits on the corner, so I always know that the next street is Church Road.

Q. Oh that’s good. I like that. 

A. You know. 

Q.  Neat. Um have you used do you use maps of any kind?

A. Do I use maps? 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  No. When I had vision for reading, I was an excellent visual map-reader. And get you from point A to point B. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  Um but now I don’t use maps.

Q. Tactile maps of any kind, have you tried?

A. No.

Q. No. What one thing that happens frequently when you’re traveling that you like the least?

A. Oh (laugh).

Q. (laugh) Where do I begin (laugh)?

A. Doesn’t bother me when kids say ”what’s that?” But when adults say, “ what‘s that stick?”

Q. To you? They say to you.

A. Oh yes. Oh yes. Oh yes. Or “I wish I had one of those.” They’ve said that too.

Q. Weird.

A. I know very bizarre.

Q. And what do you say? Do you even?

A. Well I usually tell them if they say I wish I had one of those, and I usually say well I don’t think you do. 

Q. Right.

A.  You know because then you would not be able to get into your car and drive it home. 

Q. Yeah really.

A.  Or “what is that stick for?” I’ll just you know very nicely and politely and say it’s to help me not trip over you (laugh). I try to be as informative as I can. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  In a pleasant a way as I can, but sometimes.

Q. Yeah. What do you want sighted pedestrians to do when they want to help?

A. What do I, sorry what?

Q. What do want sighted pedestrians to do when they want to help?

A. Uh to just ask, “would you like assistance?

Q. Have you ever been?

A. Attacked almost?

Q. (laugh).

A. Pushed? Yeah. Oh yeah. 

Q. Like what

A. (cough). Excuse me. Crossing a street actually in the city, on my own, somebody was grabbing my arm and trying to pull me across, and I was no, no, no that’s fine thank you very much. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  You know I can handle this very well but thank you anyway. You know.

Q. And what did they say?

A. They were like “Oh, OK, OK” that kind of you know. You don’t want to stop them from offering to help. Because lord help us, somebody else may need it. 

Q. Right.

A. You know? But you also don’t, you would like them to be able to do it in a way that would allow you to decline if you don’t.

Q. Yeah. Um how do you handle being lost or disoriented?

A. How do I handle it? I ask questions.

Q. Like what?

A. Oh I’ll just ask where. Like even if I’m walking around looking for a ladies’ room I’ll just ask, “where’s the ladies room?” 

Q. Yeah.

A.  You know which way is the main door? Or if it’s a specific street that’s outside the door. You know, “which exit would take me to?” um or you know what street is? Are we on here? You know that kind of thing. Questions work.

Q. What kinds of things do you use as landmarks?

A. Building shapes um or lack of building. I use overpasses.

Q. Oh how?

A. Well on one of our highways on route 70 I always know where I am because route 9 is just a single overpass lane you know overpass. The parkway is a double overpass, so I know exactly at which area of route 70 I’m at.

Q. Neat, how did you figure that one out?

A. I don’t know (laugh).

Q. It just came to me.

A. It just came. I don’t really know. I guess because—our gas station is on route 9 for the state car. And you know as soon as we were hitting this overpass we were turning onto route 9. So, I guess that kind of clued mean into that. Then all of a sudden, I was running around going oh the parkway has two. Oh (laugh).

Q. Did you think you’ve learned more about your area by having a driver?

A. Oh yes, most definitely.

Q. Like what?

A. Well everyone once in a while he’ll quiz me and say, “do you know where you are?” 

Q. Oh really?

A. Oh yeah, he does. 

Q. Do you ever want to slap him?

A. Yeah, I do. 

Q. (laugh).

A. But I wouldn’t tell. Usually, it’s when I’m spaced out thinking about 40 other things. 

Q. Right.

A.  And you know I’ll just kind of say well no I don’t, and this point I really don’t care. 

Q. Right.

A. As long as you know where we are. You know but other times I’ll just tell him oh yeah, we’re on whatever. You know. In fact, there have been times when I have said I think you’ve just missed our turn.

Q. Neat.

A. Cause you can tell just sort of by the distance you traveled when your next turn should be. You know if it’s a familiar route. Even though I don’t see the sign. You know he’s like oh yeah, I guess did (laugh).

Q. Like it. Um have you ever been injured when traveling?

A. No. Fortunately praise no,  no.

Q. Do you belong to any professional or consumer organizations?

A. I belong to the AER.

Q. Division 11?

A. Actually 11 and what is itinerant teaching 17?

Q. Yeah 16 or 17.

A. In fact I’m the secretary of the New Jersey Board.

Q. Oh. Neat.

End of side A.

Side B

Q. Coalition on women with disabilities. How did you get involved in that?

A. Um when I was out on disability, I was asked by someone when I was a client with the Commission, I was asked by the one of the supervisors if I would sit on the independent living counsel. And the two people that were bringing me up to our rehab center lived further south than I did and they would just you know stop and pick me. They both told me about the coalition and kept urging me to call so I called. And, um I became an active member. I was on their board for quite some time until I just couldn’t do it with the new position I got. And the role of secretary.

Q. What do you all do in that?

A. Me? Now I’m an itinerant teacher.

Q. I mean no what does the board do?

A. What do they do?

Q. Yeah, the coalition?

A. Oh OK well at that time it was a lot more active because ADA was coming in the forefront. (dog barking) And we did a lot of um I was sitting on their compliance committee. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  The ADA compliance so we did the library. We just walked through all the libraries and came through all kinds of suggestions. 

Q. I wondered why libraries have more of the Kurzweils and stuff like that, is that part of it?

A. Yes, it is.

Q. You need readers?

A. Yes. In fact, our library system when they were coming when they were thinking of purchasing their computer equipment with large print and voice had asked me to come over as a consultant to check it out. But um they also worked with the different townships and things like that on ADA. We had a people first sensitivity um, speaking program. And I was part of that. 

Q. Neat.

A.  Oh lordy they do so many different things.

Q. Neat. Well, I just wanted an idea.

A. It’s a very active organization?

Q. Here’s a better question? What do you think drives a split between AER and NFB?

A. Oh I think it might be part of the single mindedness where there’s no room for.

Q. Of who?

A. I think of NFB. But don’t quote me.

Q. I can’t quote you huh?

A. Oh I don’t know about that. 

Q. (laugh).

A. Actually, I just attended the NFB convention in New Jersey because a very good friend of mine was made educator of the year. 

Q. Oh who is that?

A. Adrian Patter.

Q. I don’t know.

A. No. She’s one of our Ed consultants too. And I went over with her, and I think it’s just because of their single minded. They, they It’s either their way or no way. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  They’re unyielding. And I have a problem with any organization that feels that way. 

Q. And what’s, what’s the single mind; I mean what’s the one thing? 

A. Well they just went through that bit with the mobility and the discovery technique. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  To them there is no other way of teaching mobility. 

Q. Right.

A.  And that bothers me. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  Because I cannot fathom one of the former clients I had, that’s 80-85 wandering down the middle of the street and not being able to tell them that they’re walking down the middle of a street. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  You know that type of thing.

Q. Yeah. So, what did you think of the convention?

A. Um (pause) OK. 

Q. (laugh).

A. It was only the one-day I was there and that was plenty thank you. It was enough for me. It was the first time I had attended. 

Q. (laugh).

A. and um

Q. They’re pretty intense?

A. Yes.

Q. Yeah, I’ve heard that.

A. It’s just too intense for me I don’t know.

Q. Just real democratic convention or gung-ho?

A. Yeah. I mean AER I seem to get—I mean, it’s a lot more sharing of information.

Q. Yeah.

A.  Instead of dictating methods.

Q. Well I mean what do you think about the fact that AER said that you can not be blind and teach mobility even though?

A. That bothers me.

Q. That had been the first original teachers really in this field?

A. Yeah, it does bother me.

Q. Have you ever done anything within AER or to let that be known as a member?

A. No I haven’t. I have to plead no.

Q. Well shame on you no. (laugh)

A. Number one. I think it.

Q. I mean are you aware of that and has always been a problem for you or is that something you that you really haven’t really?

A. I really haven’t given it a whole. I guess because it’s not in my, in my professional career.

Q. Yeah.

A. Ok it’s not something that I have my sights on. That was just something that, not that it didn’t interest me, it was something I think I didn’t want the responsibility of.

Q. What do you think of blind mobility instructors?

A. I think some blind individuals could be absolutely wonderful mobility instructors. I also know some other blind individuals that would do absolutely wonderful with book learning. But take them out on the street and they can barely get themselves across the street. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  So, I really think it’s individual based. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  You know, not just because of a blindness or a visual impairment. 

Q. Sure.

A.  But the skills you’re bringing into it. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  You know I can really lay claim to a number of people that man they couldn’t get out of a garden if they tried. You know.

Q. How did ADA impact you?  Do you notice the difference before and after its passage?

A. Um (cough) Excuse me traveling in buildings is a lot easier. 

Q. Because?

A. In many instances because of the Braille, or even the large print. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  Um I always know when it’s missing. 

Q. Right.

A. I will not take another Celebrity cruise because I could not wander that ship by myself.

Q. Oh really, what?

A. Nothing on the elevator was an indication of the floor that we were stopping at. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  The only indication was the lights above the elevator you know as you’re traveling inside. Nothing was outside the door at reachable level to know what floor you were on.

Q. So did you do any--what did you about it?

A. I wrote a complaint.

Q. Yeah. And in terms of getting about, did you?

A. Oh in terms of getting about? 

Q. Yeah.

A.  If it was only between 2 or 3 floors, I would take the stairs. 

Q. Uh huh.

A.  But otherwise, someone went with me.

Q. How many floors are those ships?

A. Sometimes 11.

Q. Shooo.

A. Yeah.

Q. Those things are huge. 

A. There’s a lot of steps.

Q. I had no idea they were that big (laugh).

A. I mean give me a break.

Q. Oh my goodness(laugh), 11 floors. 

A. No I  

Q. And that’s just what the guests go on I’m sure there even.

A. That’s right. I think it’s like 3 floors below. I don’t know.

Q. Golly. I’ve never been on a cruise ship so.

A. I’m taking a cruise to Alaska this summer.

Q. Oh wow.

A. Yeah. Doing the land and sea.

Q. Neat.

A. And I’m taking Princess because Princess announces the floors. And it also has Braille. 

Q. How did you find that out?

A. Friends have taken Princess.

Q. Neat. What do you attribute to your present level of mobility?

A. Hmm, my present level, some instinct, some inquisitiveness um and a big drive for independence that’s always been important to me.

Q. Yeah. Would you get more mobility instruction?

A. Would I get more? I think if circumstances changed and I was thrust into an area that I wasn’t familiar with, or um other types of equipment came out that I might you know find helpful. 

Q. Yeah.

A.  I would not be opposed to more mobility, not at all. 

Q. So but at this time you’re not?

A. Right now, everything is fine. You know I mean everything is imagine that is you know I’m comfortable with things as they are right now.

Q. Neat. Well that’s the interview.

A. Oh my goodness. I hope it was helpful.

Q. It is. I enjoyed it. I hope you didn’t find it too painful. 

A. No, not at all. Not at all. It was fine. Good luck with it

Q. Thanks Gloria.

A. No problem.

Q. Have a good weekend.

A. You too.

Q. Night.

A. Take care. 

Gloria grew up with low vision, she couldn’t read street signs or see important details but moved about her world with her peers. She remembered having no difficulty getting around her hometown or otherwise, until she lost more of her vision when she was 40 years old. That caused her to lose her job and relearn how to get about places she knew well. It also brought her to a new profession. 

Gloria’s memory of her companion encouraging her to use her cane as a turning point in her independence was sincere. She shared how difficult it had been to let go of the person she once was, and embrace the tools in her new life.

Her mobility instruction was for 3 weeks – it covered little apparently because she had no place to go- which makes no sense. How do you have a place to go if you have no ability to go there independently. She made up for her lack of instruction by getting a master’s degree in the field of blindness – and now shares her knowledge and personal experience with her students.

Interviewed by:         Grace Ambrose

Interview date:          12/10/99