Barbara born blind in 1953 her first long cane in 1980 when she was 27 years old

From 1999 – 2001, as a young professor I conducted over 100 interviews with employed adults with blindness. I was seeking insight into my profession from the everyday consumer – and I continue to learn and improve my practice by listening absent bias and judgement. 

This week we have Barbara Hadnott Her interview was conducted November 21, 1999 – She was born blind in 1953 – Her life is a vivid picture of someone who is at home with the reality of growing up blind, being active, smart, accomplished and yet for the first 27 years never knowing what was in her next step before she landed on it –.

Barbara teaches us that to grow up being guided as a means of efficient blind travel is to accept to being guided as natural adult lifestyle. Yet, she felt able to finally break free once she got her long cane at age 27, and is seeking to become more self-sufficient. Let’s listen to a wonderfully fun and insightful interview Barbara

 What an amazing story of triumph– in every other part of life, Barbara was a pioneer and a leader – except the one that was set for her by circumstances beyond her control- Growing up without any independent means to feel safe when walking independently. 

Her life is a vivid picture of someone who is at home with the reality of growing up blind, being active, smart, accomplished and never knowing what’s in your next step before you land on it – It makes you prefer to walk with someone else, and all travel is with someone else. She can and does travel alone – yet this is not a competition – her life of having a guide for most travel was created from the ground up- from day one in her life. In 1954, when she turned one, there was no mobility tool available for one-year-old toddlers. Her parents never had a choice.

 There is nothing wrong with a life tethered to others, I guess- except that Barbara urged parents to start their children with the cane as soon as possible. Which is now possible with the Pediatric Belt Cane.

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Transcript

Baylee

Hadnott, Barbara  11/21/99

[side A]

Q. If you could state and spell your full name.

A. OK.  Barbara Hadnott.

Q. OK.  What’s your date of birth?

A. 1953.

Q. OK.  Where were you born?

A. Where?

Q. Uh huh.

A. Jackson, Mississippi.

Q. And where do you live now?

A. In Jackson.

Q. OK.  And what do you do for a living?

A. I’m a program manager, which is basically a vocation account manager for Goodwill Industries.

Q. Neat.  Where did you go to college.

A. Jackson State University.

Q. And what’s your highest degree?

A. Um, 30 hours towards a Master’s.

Q. Uh huh.  How long have you had a vision impairment?

A. Uh, since birth.

Q. And what’s the name of it?

A. Just totally blind.

Q. Um.  Premature, or…what’s the cause of it?

A. They don’t know.  [laugh]

Q. They don’t know.

A. They never found out why.

Q. Oh.  Um, when did you first realize that you were visually impaired?

A. Um, I don’t know… I guess I was, um, probably as a small child.

Q. Uh huh.

A. So, maybe, uh, around…Maybe before school age.

Q. Uh huh.

A. Um hm.

Q. Do you remember, sort of, anything that happened that made you realize that you were different?

A. Um, I guess the only thing would be not seeing things, because my younger brother explained a lot of things to me…you know, whatever he was learning.  He explained it to me.

Q. Oh, yeah.  When did you first learn to travel independent of another person?

A. Um, I guess that depends…  In areas that I was, you know, where I was familiar…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …probably since, probably since three or four years old.

Q. Uh huh.

A. And, uh, around the neighborhood, uh, probably, probably school age…where…  Maybe five or six.  And, uh, let’s see…  Yeah, because we, we traveled around…  I have two other blind siblings also…one of them grew up with me.  And, um, we traveled the neighborhood.  I can’t really remember, but it must have been they was five or six.

Q. So, um, how did you learn to go by yourself?

A. Just memorizing…having a mental picture, you know, from walking with other people.  And then I would remember.  And I had a little light perception…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …and just knowing…just learning, uh, the landmarks and the mental picture, really, helped.  It would help me remember wherever we had gone.

Q. Uh huh.

A. So, uh…  And I would just get out there and do it myself.

Q. What kind of attitudes did you and family or friends have about you doing this by yourself?

A. It was pretty normal.

Q. Uh huh.

A. ‘Cause I really didn’t think about it.

Q. Yeah.  Um, what are your childhood memories of, um, play?  What kinds of things did you play at?

A. We did everything everybody else did.  We rode bikes and skated…you know, we learned to skate up and down the street, and climb trees.  Um, play, you know, the games that you know most kids play.  Um, basically, whatever everybody else did, that’s what we did.

Q. So, how did you ride bikes or skate up and down the street?  What did you use to, sort of, avoid cars or…did you avoid them?

A. Um, well, if…  Well, we skated in…we skated with the other kids.  You know, they would look out for us.

Q. Uh huh.

A. But sometimes, my sister and I got out there by ourselves and, um, I just used the same, you know, um…  Since I had a little light perception and I remembered, you know, where we were supposed to be, um…  You know, I just used the little sight that I had and the memory of where we were supposed to be.  We were kind of crazy as kids.

Q. [laugh]

A. We went out there and really think about it.

Q. Uh huh.

A. We weren’t supposed to go really far on the bikes.  Sometimes we did.

Q. Uh huh.

A. Yeah, and sometimes we rode, uh, tandem with other people.  You know how one person would be standing up and the other person would, you know, be seated…we’d be on the seat behind the person.

Q. Right.

A. Uh huh.  We did that a lot, too, on the bike.   If we were going a longer distance, you know, I did that.

Q. Yeah.  I’ve done that, too.  Um, when did you get, sort of, formal training in mobility?

A. Um, I had very little training, you know, as a child and, I guess, probably, I was, probably, like, 16 or 17…in school, we learned sighted guide techniques…and then I didn’t get formal training, you know, from a rehab center or something like that until I was about 27.

Q. So, you’re totally blind and…did you ever have a cane before that?

A. Nope.  I never used a cane until I was 27.

Q. Wow.  [laugh]  I’m a little flabbergasted.

A. Yeah.

Q. So, in school and getting around and teenager…getting around. I mean, tell me what you did.

A. Sometimes, I used sighted guide and, uh, but around the neighborhood and, uh, when I went to Jackson State, um, my sister…I had two sisters…one of them was blind.  So, she already knew her way around and she basically showed me and some of the other people what, you know…would  Help me learn my way around.  Sometimes I would have classes where I would pretty much go with the same people, and I would go with them until I learned the way.  Then after I learned the way, I just got out there by myself and went.

Q. So, what did you do about drop offs or curbs, or…

A. I learned basically where they were and, uh…  It’s just like you would learn your way around your house…

Q. Uh huh.

A. That’s basically the technique I used for learning the campus.  And, you know, find landmarks, um, that would let me know, uh, when I was getting close to the drop-offs or whatever.  Sometimes, um, I don’t know…  Sometimes it seems like I would…  the way that seemed to be the hardest to travel, especially at Jackson State…it seemed like that would be way I was traveling, you know, instead of the most easiest way to do it.

Q. Like what?

A. Um, like, like, there was a plaza…like a French plaza in front of the dorm…

Q. Um hm.

A. …  It wasn’t there when I first went to Jackson State…it was actually a street.  But then they made the plaza…constructed  the plaza.  Mostly, they would lead out of the dorm and go straight across the plaza and then would pick up a walk and go where they had to go.  But I didn’t like to that because, uh, um, if you went straight across, you had steps going up and steps going down and you had a platform and you, you had to, kind of…  Well, you could to straight across.   And, um, but I didn’t like walking beside the steps, they  go down…

Q. Right.

A. …so I would go down on one side and across over and go down.  Then I’d take the walk and go around curves and things like that.  You know, to go…  I would take the longer route.

Q. So that you could avoid those steps that were in the middle.

A. Yeah.  In fact, coming back I basically did the same thing, uh…  But I could…  For some strange reason, I could come back across the plaza a lot better than going across the plaza.  [laugh]  That’s a little weird, but…

Q. So, going back, were the steps, now, going up instead of going down?

A. No, they would be the same.

Q. Yeah.

A. Just, going, going, they would be on my right, which is where I had a little sight.  But, during my junior year, you know, I lost all my vision ‘cause the retina became detached.  The light perception that I had, I lost that.  And coming back, it would be on my left.  I don’t know…

Q. Hah.

A. …I don’t know what the difference was.  [laugh]

Q. Interesting.

A. But, for some reason, I could do it better coming back.  I felt more comfortable doing back…doing it coming back than going.

Q. So, do you think you walked with a, sort of, regular pace?

A. Um hm.  I always walked pretty fast.

Q. You walked pretty fast.  Um, were you trailing, or, like one foot grass, one foot sidewalk.

A. Um um.

Q. No.

A. I tried to stay middle way of the walk.  And then, when I got closer to where I was supposed to go, I would start, um…I would you know, maybe, shorelining a little bit, you know…  Just start walking a little bit to the edge.

Q. Um hm.

A. And that way I would know…  But, you know, once I did it enough, I would just about know…  And most of the time, I would…  It had a lot to do with timing with the way that I walked.  And most of the time, it just came out right.  I would be at the right place.

Q. And, indoors…  Did you use the same kinds of things?

A. Um hm.  The same thing, ‘cause I could kind of tell…  I could pick up sounds real easy and I could tell when doors were open and doors were closed, or I could pick up openings in hallways and things like that.  And most of the hallways…  I pretty much stayed center because in some of the hallways, the doors…say like some of the doors may open out, uh, and, or they may have center doors or something like that, so.  Most of the time, I pretty much stayed center.

Q. Were you aware that, um, people usually used a cane or a dog or something?

A. Yep.

Q. And, so, did you want to have a cane or dog or…

A. Yeah, I thought about it…I mean, I didn’t have it, so I didn’t worry about it.

Q. And you really didn’t have any sense of how you’d go about getting it.

A. No.  I knew how to go about getting it and then, when I could have gone to the center during the summer…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …for whatever reason, I didn’t, um, probably counselors and things like that, so, since I didn’t do it, um, at that particular time, I wasn’t going to wait around, you know, just because I didn’t do it.

Q. Right.  So, do you feel like you were restricted in any kind of way in your life by not having a cane?

A. Other than just…  As I say, the places I had to go all the time…I learned those places, and most other places I went, I just used uh sighted guide or if I would use a taxi or whatever.  Then, um, they were pretty much…  I would pretty much be going places that I knew, so, um…  But if I had had the cane earlier, I probably would have just been, you know, even more independent.  But basically, I went where I wanted to go.  The only thing…  I probably wouldn’t have used the sighted guide as much.

Q. So, how much do you think you used the sighted guide?

A. Uh, for places I wasn’t familiar with, probably most of the time.

Q. Um hm.

A. But in the places, like I said, the places that I knew, like, on the campus at Jackson State, I wasn’t restricted there ‘cause I pretty much went where I wanted to go.

Q. I just find that very fascinating.

A. And, some people used to tease me…well, how did you learn?  How do you get around the campus at night?  I say, well, what I learned in the daytime, I learned for the nighttime, too.

Q. [laugh]

A. It’s all the same to me.

Q. [laugh]

A. What difference would there be?

Q. That is an interesting question.  [laugh]

A. No difference.

Q. So, I imagine you did confuse a lot of people.

A. Yeah, I guess I did.

Q. I mean, they…friends thought you were maybe ignoring them, because you wouldn’t wave hello, or…

A. Right.  And then I, you know, I told them that they’d have to speak to me or let me recognize, you know, be able to recognize their voice or whatever.  And on top of that, then have to carry the Braille writer also, ‘cause some of the classes…

Q. Right.

A. A lot of times, after I learned my way around and I would start out…  A lot of times I would meet somebody else going to class…

Q. Um hm.

A. …and I wouldn’t sighted guide with them…  I’d just walk along.

Q. Yeah.

A. You know, and then sometimes, uh, the guys were very nice about carrying the Braille writer sometimes.

Q. Uh huh.

A. But, uh, you know…  My sister told me, well if you learn your way around and start out on your own…you’ll usually run into somebody that you know.  And that’s what I did.

Q. Hm.

A. But, if I didn’t run into somebody I knew, I just, you know, went on to the class myself.

Q. Did you ever…did you have any mishaps?

A. Um, I remember falling one time and, to this day, I don’t know why…there were no steps around…there was nothing.

Q. Uh huh.

A. Uh, I don’t know what happened, you know, that day.

Q. Like running into…

A. There wasn’t nothing to fall on.

Q. [laugh]

A. Nothing to run into.

Q. Well, it happens to me…

A. I don’t know what happened…

Q. But, I mean, like, running into people or things or…  boom.

A. Well, no, not really.  Um, I may have…  If there was a time I did do it, it may have been, like, in a hurry…not really paying attention…walking faster or whatever…

Q. Um hm.

A. ..and a lot of times, people would just be in the way, you know.  They, they really wouldn’t be where they should have been.

Q. Uh huh.

A. They’d just be talking and, um, they would step out in front of me.

Q. Uh huh.

A. And I think sometimes they probably would forget…

Q. So…

A. But most of the time, I didn’t have any problem.

Q. So, then…what happened when you were 27 when you got mobility training?

A. Um, well, one thing I had to change some of my techniques, you know.  And, then, after that, learning the cane was real easy ‘cause, I, I just wasn’t afraid to get out.

Q. Right.

A. And I was a fast learner, so, um…  You know, it helped…  I had to get used to the cane because, you know, at first, I was conscious that people were watching me more so with the cane than they were…  I thought the cane, you know, would attracting attention like that.  You know, I had to get over that…that’s why I would recommend anybody that has a blind child…

Q. Uh hmm.

A. …I would recommend them putting a cane in their hand as soon as possible…so they can get used to, uh, you know, the attention or the feel or whatever.  They wouldn’t have, uh, so that they wouldn’t have a negative feeling about the cane or, um…  I guess my feelings wasn’t really that negative about the cane…it was just I was so used to not using it that I had to remember, you know, I need to use the cane.  And it does…you know, it makes you more freeer and your confidence is…  Your level of confidence is going to be much better if you have a cane.

Q. Did you find that?

A. Um hm (affirmative).  And, you know, in traveling places that you don’t know, it’s much better.

Q. Is it?

A. Um hm.

Q. So, what made you go get cane training?

A. Uh, well, actually, I went to the center for something else and I had just decided that, you know, it was about time for me to go.  But actually, I went to the center to learn to use the opticon.

Q. Oh.

A. So, I went for that.  I, uh, told them I wanted to learn mobility and, you know, a couple of other things at the same time.

Q. Uh huh.  And, was anybody astonished that you'd been traveling and…

A. Um hm and you know well they couldn't.

Q. …without…

A. believe…  They probably still don’t believe…

Q. [laugh]  Well, I’ve only met one other person who was like your--that age when they…  You know, they’d been traveling, same thing went to university and everything without it. And, so, it’s rare…  I believe it, but.  [laugh]

A. I think I had a little more faith then than I do now.

Q. Wow.

A. Yeah, I would just get out there and, I remember, one day I had to walk down to the university park auditorium…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …and I had never walked down there by myself.  But I was going on memory because I had walked down there with other people.

Q. Right.

A. So, I walked down there and when I got ready to cross, most of Lynch Street was closed off…  But when I got--when you get down close to the auditorium, you know, the streets were opened, so I had to cross this real busy street, and I was hesitant then because I didn’t have anything to identify me as a blind person.

Q. Right.

A. And, so, there were some people at the corner and they, uh, you know, they assisted me with walking across the street.

Q. Yeah.  So, did you ask for help or did…?

A. You know, most of the time, I didn’t have to…  And that’s another thing people used to tease me about, because, most of the time, I didn’t have to ask for help.  If somebody saw me at the corner…you know, they would, they would ask me if I needed help.

Q. Oh.

A. Especially, some…most of the guys always ask me…

Q. [laugh]  Sounds like a nice school.  [laugh]

A. Yeah, yeah, they, they were, they were very good about--or, if somebody stepped out in front of me or, you know, kind of pulled off in front of me, they were very aggressive about that.  You know, they, they didn’t like that and they would let 'em know [laugh].

Q. Oh.

A. [as if one of the boys]…don't you see her with that Braille writer in her hands, you know…  But a lot of times, you know, I didn’t need the help.  If nobody was there, fine--sometimes I’d tell them that I didn’t need the help.

Q. Yeah.  

A. Mm hmm.

Q. So, so, day one, mobility:  Do you think you got the respect of you know…that you deserved in terms of your current level of travel ability?  Or do you think it was sort of like, let’s begin at the beginning?

A. Um, this particular instructor did start at the very beginning.

Q. Um hm.

A. He didn’t take anything for granted.

Q. And, how did that make you feel?

A. Uh, well, going to the center in the first place, I think that’s when I really felt blind.  I didn’t feel really blind until I went to that center.

Q. Uh huh.

A. And, um, I guess it was because of the way they were doing things.  Um, I just felt like a stereotype blind person.

Q. Yeah.

A. And once I got through, you know, the initial days of it and started finding my way around, then, um, you know, it got better.  But, I mean, they were surprised about me…my reading speed…  And my feelings about that was…  If I had gone to the school for the blind since I was five years old, graduated from Jackson State…  Why wouldn’t I be a good reader?

Q. Right.

A. You know, those kinds of things I didn’t understand.  I didn’t particularly like.

Q. Yeah.  So, it was let’s learn how to travel indoors, let’s…

A. That was a little different cause, you know, I did start from the basics…you know, shorelining and trailing the wall…which we…  Um, if I was in a place…if I went to a place that I didn’t know, uh…  ‘cause we learned to trail the wall at school, you know, in school.

Q. Mm hm.

A. So, um…  But it was different because we, we did a lot of things before we got the cane and, I guess, at that point, I was pretty much thinking, you know, I’d just go straight to the cane.  But I don’t regret doing the basics; that way I, you know, learned all of it.

Q. You don’t regret it.  Sounds like you’re being kind of nice though because it sounds like you came already able to do a lot.  Do you feel like they were sort of…

A. Yeah, they kind of wanted to take me back a little bit to the very beginning.

Q. Um hm.

A. And…I knew it was an evaluation, so, to me, it was just playing a game.  You know, ’cause if I went through it and got to the cane, the sooner I would get to the cane.

Q. Yeah.

A. You know the games kids play-it was just a game to me.

Q. Yeah.

A. But, you know, I let them know that I didn't [lite laugh] really didn’t care for it.

Q. Oh, good.  Yeah.

A. But I just did it because it was the program to do, you know…

Q. Right.  Right. And, so, then, with the cane travel…your orientation ability…  Did…did. was there some sort of trying to teach you something you already knew how to do with that as well?

A. Uh basically, you basically had to just teach me the techniques of the cane and um. And I really had to concentrate on, you know, the cardinal points, yeah because…northeast and northwest.  I, you know, wasn’t really into doing that.

Q. Do you use that now?

A. Sometimes, I do…I try to make myself do it…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …because you can always depend on that.

Q. Uh huh.

A. You know, but, sometimes, left and right from other people can be misleading.  So, a lot of times, you know, within my own mind, I’ll, I'll, I'll do that…think the north or the south or [clears throat] whatever.

Q. Um, so, they didn’t…  The person really didn’t try to teach you how to orient yourself; they just taught you the cane skills.

A. Basically, because he realized that, uh…  You know, he started doing that but he basically realized that I… You know, my orientation was real good.

Q. Yeah.

A. And I could pick up, you know, I would guess when the sonar, you know.  I could pick up buildings, poles, trees…little things.  You know I could pick up; I could sense when I was, um, passing by things…obstacles… But he would tell me, you know like, especially after we got onto the street that, you know, this street has a lot of low limbs on it, you know and…  But we started out on a catwalk, you know, making sure, um, walking a really straight line and looking…’cause I used to look down more when I was, you know…from habit, from depending on my sight and I did have a little light perception…and we worked on my looking straight ahead instead of, you know, looking down.

Q. Um hm.

A. So, that really helped a lot.

Q. Uh huh.

A. Looking straight ahead and he uh, as far as, you know the brisk walking, I was pretty much doing that anyway, so, I like the fact that he liked that, so that went well.

Q. Yeah.

A. But, I didn’t have to change anything about that.  The only habit I really had to break was, instead of using my feet, uh, to, you know, like stepping off a curb or making sure of something, to do the sweep with the cane.

Q. Uh huh.

A. I had to get really used to doing that.

Q. So, to trust that cane…

A. Um hm.

Q. …where you had been trusting your feet.

A. Right.

Q. What about street crossings…  Did you learn some strategies there that you hadn’t really been using before?

A. No.  I pretty much knew that you, you know, travel with the flow of the traffic…

Q. Um hm.

A. and uh…but the one I had to work on the most was the diagonal traffic, and not to veer, you know, into the street…not to veer too far in the street…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …um, on some street crossings.  Just going straight across, um…  I think it was more to the right, and I think that came more from, you know, having a tendency to turn my head to the right…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …from when I did have…uh, light perception.  I think I still had a tendency to kind of look to the right when I was crossing the street, you know, just going straight from one corner to the other corner.  And, so, I had to concentrate not to veer too far to the right ‘cause I’d go out into the traffic.  But, uh…  But that, you know, I worked on it…it wasn’t anything that I…you know, pretty easy to overcome.  But the diagonal traffic, going from one corner and then you’ve got to diagonal to the other corner, I had to, you know, really work at that.

Q. Were you…was that something that you knew that you were doing..and?

A. I guess I really didn’t notice it until I started using the cane because, you know how you line up the cane and you go straight across…then I could tell…once I started using the cane, I could tell I had a tendency to go to the right a little bit.

Q. So…

A. Going to the traffic…

Q. So, is it safe to say that, um, with this cane training, you were doing more street crossings than you had previously done by yourself?

A. Yeah, basically, without the cane I would have crossed streets, basically, um, that weren’t busy, weren't so busy or that were, you know, like in neighborhoods just blocks or something like that.  But I did more street crossings with the cane.

Q. Uh huh.

A. I felt more comfortable.  And going into areas that, you know…unfamiliar areas, I did that more with the cane than I did without.

Q. Um, what about taking the bus?

A. Uh, now, I learned the bus…  I rode the bus a lot at the time.

Q. Uh huh.

A. But I always rode it with somebody else.  So, I was used to riding the bus, but I didn’t ride it by myself until, um, you know, I started using the cane.

Q. Um hm.

A. And I didn’t have to use the bus a whole lot, but, you know, I was glad I knew how to do it because by that time, I wasn’t riding the bus anyway… You know, somebody you know, I’d always be in somebody’s car most of the time.

Q. Um hm.

A. Or, at night, you know maybe I would take a taxi somewhere.  My sister, who was older than I, she had a car and my other sister had a car and my father had a car, and, you know, a lot of friends I had, they had a car.

Q. Um hm.

A. So, I really didn’t have to use the street bus a lot.

Q. Yeah.

A. And then we had the paratransit system too.

Q. Right.  It’s always very…

A. But I knew, you know, if I needed to use it, I could.

Q. Uh huh.  So, you use a cane now…

A. Uh huh.

Q. What kind of a cane do you use?

A. Um, sometimes I use a folding cane and then I like the telescopic carbon fiber…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …it’s a very, very light NFB cane.

Q. Uh huh.

A. And, it’s some--well somebody else may make it…  I don’t know why I call it an NFB cane.  Um, since I got it from their store. [laugh]

Q. [laugh]

A. It’s a very lightweight cane and it’s a collapsible cane instead of a folding cane.  So, I like it.

Q. And, what kind of tip?

A. Uh, you know, I really don’t… I’m not into this tip thing…

Q. [laugh]

A. …like most people.  I could not tell you very much about that tip.

Q. [laugh]

A. I know some people are really particular about the tip…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …but whatever tip comes with the cane is fine with me.

Q. [laugh]  Have you ever tried a rolling tip of any kind?

A. I haven’t--I’ve heard about it but I haven’t…I could see where it would, you know, could be useful.

Q. Uh huh.

A. But I haven’t tried it.

Q. Do you tap touch the…

A. Uh huh.

Q. …do you use that technique?

A. Well, um, sometime…most of the time I do the two-point touch…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …but it depends on, um… Like, where I work now… sometimes I don’t do the two-point because…  I work at Goodwill and we receive a lot of donations.  When I go back out…when I go out to the work area, there are a lot of things on the floor, there are a lot of things in the way, so I find just to uh constant contact is much better because I pick up things…  They’re supposed to keep the area clean, but they, you know, you know…  You’ve got a warehouse atmosphere, you’re not going to have everything clean all the time, so it may be hangers on the floor, it may be…there might be anything on the floor [laugh]  So, uh, I pretty much…  When I’m in the work area, I pretty much do the constant contact.  In the front area, I do the two-point.  If I'm out traveling, um…  If I’m traveling the streets or in a hotel or something like that, I pretty much do the, uh, the, 2 you know, the tap…unless you know, unless I’m shorelining to find a door or something.  They I may not use the tap.

Q. Right.

A. It just depends on what I’m doing and what I’m looking for.

Q. Have you ever thought about getting a dog?

A. I’ve thought about it but I’m a bit afraid of dogs.

Q. Yeah.

A. So…  And we have a dog in this house…  I’m afraid she’s not barking…she’s only seven-and-a-half pounds.  Uh, a Yorkshire Terrier…

Q. Oh.

A. …but, I don’t know.  And then if I could just get the dog to do what the dog is supposed to do, and I didn’t have to do no upkeep…

Q. [laugh]

A. …[sounds like I don't feel like doing all that].

Q. Well, that’s what the cane is for.  [laugh]  Sounds like you’re well suited.

A. That wouldn’t be right to have a dog…  And a guide dog…you know, Now I gotta really pet the dog and you know and all this kind of stuff.

Q. Right.

A. I’m trying, though.  My sister told me she’s going to get me used to the dog.

Q. Well, it’s just that you don't want a dog…

A. I though about…  Right now, it’s a little different because I’m living here, you know, with my parents. I've been home for about three years and, so, again…  A lot of the times when I’m going somewhere, I'm with somebody.  You know but, once I move, I am considering getting a little puppy…whether it’s a guide dog or not…or just getting a dog, you know, to keep in the backyard.

Q. Yeah.  Well, you just…the way that you, you know…  Twenty-seven years without a cane, sounds to me like you would fit right in with having a dog guide because, um, you’re not really dependent upon the way the cane strikes objects or anything.

A. Um hm.

Q. You know what I’m saying?  I mean, you’d probably really…  And that you like to walk quickly and everything.

A. Um hm.

Q. Sounds like it would be just up your alley.

A. Um hm.  It probably would be real good, if I could.

Q. Right, if you could just…

A. And I wasn’t really afraid of dogs…

Q. Right  [laugh] A little thing like that.  Yeah.  Uh, how many canes do you own?

A. Usually, I try to keep two canes, but right now, I’ve got to get another one because one broke when I got off the bus to go to work.  The Friday, it broke as I was coming down the steps and, so, at work, you know, I, I just traveled around without the cane.

Q. Um hm.

A. And, uh, but I had the carbon fiber at home, here at home.  But I need to get another one because at the convention during the summer, it was stepped on at least twice.

Q. Oh.

A. So, it’s got a crack in it.

Q. Yeah.

A. So, uh, you know, I really do need to get another one.

Q. So, what was that like to be walking without the cane again?

A. Uh, it wasn’t bad…just a little…  Because I do it a lot, uh, in places where I’m familiar, anyway…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …and, uh, but the only difference is I don’t do it a whole lot there because of things not being in the same place…

Q. Right.

A. …all the time.  And then, there, you know, a few other blind people there too, so I generally always walk with the cane.  And the way the steps are set up, one set of stairs, uh, upstairs…the rail is…  You know, you pick up the rail at about the second step so, but, um…  There are little metal teeth across the landing, you know, on the first step.  So you know when you’re coming to it. But, I usually like to go up and down those…you know, use the cane at that particular…coming down those stairs.  Then the other stairway, um, when you go out on the landing and turn right, it’s very open on the landing and the stairs are just right there. You know, so usually, I don’t want to be caught off guard.

Q. Yeah.

A. You know, especially since I walk pretty fast, I pretty much carry the cane.  Now, upstairs and in the front, there’s carpet, but in the, um…when you’re headed to the work area, then it’s just, you know, a tile floor.  So, um, downstairs, especially, uh…I felt a little funny, you know, traveling without the cane ‘cause as I said there easily could be obstacles in the way.  But I didn’t have any problems. One reason is because we had a luncheon a couple of days earlier…so everything was still kind of in place.

Q. [laugh]  Well, that was lucky.  Um, so you usually have two, which means one is a backup…

A. Um hm.  Always.

Q. ..and now you’re using your backup so you need another one?

A. Um hm.

Q. And you usually get them from the NFB.

A. NFB or from the Addie McBride Center [spell??]

Q. Oh.  What’s it called?

A. Addie McBride…

Q. Addie McBride Center.  Is that where you did your mobility?

A. Uh huh.

Q. So, how do you get to and from work?

A. I use the paratransit system.  So, they…  You know it’s door to door service.

Q. So, how does that work?  You set a…have a set time.

A. Uh huh.  Yeah. I’m on the schedule and I just walk out to the bus by myself and when I get to work, just get out of the bus and walk.  There’s another young lady who gets off, but I don’t sighted guide with her.  You know I just use my cane.  When I come home in the evening, sometimes, you know, I get off right at the walk or…um, the walk that’s right in front of my house…or, if somebody’s parked there, then I’ll get out at the driveway and just use my cane to, you know, walk back up.

Q. And, um, how does it work if you need to cancel it or need to stay late, or…

A. You just can…you just, um, call…  I usually call that morning because uh they can get the schedules mixed up sometimes.  So, if I’m going to cancel I generally wait until that day…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …and cancel.  If I’m going to cancel my evening ride, or whatever…  Like, this time of year, uh, if I’m going to get off early maybe to go shopping or something like that, you know I’ll just cancel, uh, …maybe an hour…within the hour before I leave.

Q. Um hm.

A. then I’ll cancel.

Q. And so, what will you do then if you’re going to go shopping?  How will you go there?

A. Most of the time, I go with someone.

Q. Um hm.

A. Uh, but it would be interesting, um…  Well, because before…I’m a widow now, so before I moved back home, I would go shopping with my husband or friends.

Q. Yeah.

A. And, uh, and before I moved away, I always went shopping with my sisters or friends.  And, so, now, that basically is the same.

Q. Yeah.

A. But, I had said, uh, when I do move out, I’m going to, uh, just try, just so that I know…just for my own satisfaction, um, maybe, you know, take a taxi or take the bus, or the paratransit to, uh, you know, a shopping center where ever I want to shop…

Q. Um hm.

A….and notify the, you know, the store clerk or somebody before I get there and then, you know, do it that way.  Sometimes, where I won’t be totally dependent on somebody.  And if I see somebody else doing something then I, I don’t feel right until I do it, too.

Q. Oh, yeah.

A. Well, I knew a couple of people who, who have done that, who do that pretty regular, so, um, you know, I feel if they can do it, I can do it, too.

Q. A little competitive.

A. Yeah.

Q. [laugh]  Uh, have you ever been disoriented?

A. Oh, yeah, that’s, that's happened a couple of times.  You know, you just got to…  And it’s happened in familiar areas, you know, sometimes.  And you’ve just got to, um, stay calm and pick up landmarks that you know and, you know, until you really know…get…until I get that mental picture again.

Q. Yeah.

A. You know and then I, you know, pretty much go on.

Q. How do you feel about traveling alone to unfamiliar places?

A. Um, I guess now, I, I would do it, but I think about it before I do it.  The more you do it…  You know, when I was getting out…when I was working in Shreveport, and a lot of times I had to go do Outreach to different places…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …and a lot of times I had to go by myself, I didn’t think about it that much, because…you know I, I did it often, but now…  Well, with, with this job, sometimes I do have to go out places by myself.  Um, but I guess one thing that really helped me to do that is the mobility that I took at the center…

Q. Um hm.

A. …ah, before you end the mobility class, you do a drop off--

Q. Yeah.

A. and they just take you somewhere and then say meet me at, you know, a designated place.  And they don’t tell you where you are; you’ve got to figure out where you are.  And I think that helped a lot.  You know, the fact that I did that drop off.  Uh, I have…  You know, my confidence is pretty good.

Q. Yeah.  So, you said before, it’s better to plan.  How do you prepare for travel to an unfamiliar place?

A. Uh, I just plan my transportation and, I usually, call ahead of time and find out, um, where they are…if you're on the right side of the street, left side of the street…’cause its' you know, however I’m going, even if it’s on the paratransit bus, they may not be familiar with it…they may not even know [laugh] where a particular place is.

Q. Right.

A. And then I usually ask what floor, you know, the particular area is. And I’ll usually ask is there…  You know about the entrance.  Is there a lobby or is it just a hallway or is somebody going to be out there?  Is there a desk?  You know, I just ask questions like that so I know what to look for when I go in.

Q. Yeah.

A. And they’ll usually tell me, you know, especially, like with doctors’ offices…if you change doctors or something like that…

Q. Uh huh.

A. … you need to know, um, ‘cause it happened to me last year.  My doctor moved and I, um, you know, had to find out exactly where she was--so that's usually what I do. I'll call and ask for some general directions.

Q. OK.

A. Or if, if, you know, if I’m going to have to use the elevator, I’ll ask well is the elevator in a lobby or you know is it best to come in through the back of the building, or…  You know, I’ll try to get some pointers on which would be the best way to go to get to the elevator.

Q. Um, you’ve gone to out-of-state conferences?

A. Um hm.

Q. Um, what about travel to those places?  Do you go by yourself, or with other people, or?

A. Usually, uh, conferences…  Usually, we’re going as a group.  Um, when I was in Shreveport, we would go to New Orleans a lot, so, basically, I was with, you know, the people in the office.  Um, there was one time I had to go you know to DC…my husband went with me because he loved to travel…so he went.  And, uh…the NFB convention…they really help a lot because, say, like…where maybe I don’t get out as much here…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …as I would like, um, I mean independently I'm saying.

Q. Uh huh.

A. ‘Cause most of the time I’m with somebody in a car or I'm on the bus.  Even if I’m traveling by myself you know, still, the bus is going to take you directly to the place.  But when we go to the convention, uh, well, you got to get out to learn the hotel and, uh, you got to get out if you’re going to go anywhere.

Q. Right.

A. You know, so, it just raises your level of independence.  And, usually, when I come home, you know, you’re just energized more, and you get out there and do more.

Q. So…

A. The thing about traveling is not so much my confidence level, I think I have proven to myself what I can do with the cane.

Q. Uh huh.

A. So, uh…  And I’ve proven to other people what I can do with the cane.  So now it’s not so much about me proving it, so, if it’s, you know, pretty dangerous, you know, for women to get out at night, you know, I’m not going to do it.

Q. Right.

A. Just to prove that I can do it. 

Q. Right. 

A. You know I’ve gotten past that.

Q. Yeah.  Um, how do you establish your position in the environment?

A. Uh, in what way?  I mean.

Q. How do you know where you are?  What things do you use?

A. Um, landmarks.  You know, I look for certain landmarks.  And I try to be conscious and try to remember routes, you know.  And, uh, if…you know, especially if it’s somewhere I haven’t been…  You know, when I go to a particular place, I try to remember in reverse order what I need to do when I go back.

Q. And does that usually work for you?

A. Uh huh.  Most of the time.

Q. Have you used or do you use maps?

A. Do I use a map?

Q. Uh huh.

[side B]

Q. …one thing that happens frequently in your traveling that you like the least?

A. Um, I’m trying to think of something.  Something that I like the least…  Um, I really can’t think of anything right now.  May have to come back to that.

Q. OK.  Uh…

A. Well, I’ll say this…What I would probably…  If I could think of a specific incident…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …it would probably have to at the Marriott Hotel in Atlanta.  It’s made in a…it’s got circles within circles.

Q. Uh huh.

A. And the circles within circles, a lot of it is open space.

Q. Right.

A. And I didn’t like that too much because It’s hard to find landmarks.   Because you’re constantly going…you get out of a circle before you need to, or you don’t go in this particular circle when you need to or…you know.  I didn’t like that too much.

Q. So, what kind of landmarks…I mean, how come it was hard to find a landmark?

A. Ah, because it was hard to find a starting point.

Q. Ah ha.

A. You could just be going around in circles.

Q. Ay ay ay.

A. When you get out of one circle then you get into another circle.

Q. [laugh]

A. [laugh]  So, it’s hard to find a starting point.

Q. Right.  OK.  I’ve got it.

A. And by the time you thought you had it figured out, it was time to go home.

Q. Right, right.  What do you want sighted pedestrians to do when they want to help?

A. Ask, and not just take for granted.

Q. Yeah.

A. Not just pick you up, you know, [laugh] try to take you across the street or…basically, ask.

Q. Has that happened to you?

A. Uh, yeah, when I was in mobility…a lot of times. and I had a hard time telling people no, ‘cause I didn’t want to hurt their feelings.

Q. Right.

A. And sometimes they would be, they would have you crossing the street really at the wrong time.

Q. Oh, gosh.

A. And, so I, you know, I had to get around that and start telling people no.

Q. Yeah. 

A. Especially the little old ladies… [laugh]

Q. [laugh]  They want to come help you cross the street.

A. The type that can barely make it themselves.

Q. [laugh]  Well, that, that’s funny.  Oh.  And, so you just…to be nice to them, you go with them or…

A. Sometimes I would…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …and sometimes I wouldn’t.  Sometimes, I‘d just have to really, you know, tell them…you know, be assertive.

Q. Yeah.

A. I can do it by myself, or whatever.

Q. Yeah.

A. And, especially if you travel…I found that if you travel places over and over again, there, there’s a crowd of people who are going to be there, pretty much all the time.

Q. Right.

A. When you ride the bus, there are going to be people at the bus stop and they…they’re going to watch out for you anyway.  They’re very nice, especially here.  And in Shreveport, too, you know they, they’re real good about watching out for you.

Q. Yeah.

A. Or, if something has changed, they’ll tell you.

Q. Oh, neat.

A. Um hm.

Q. Um, how do you handle being lost or disoriented?

A. Um, I would just ask someone.  If someone else passed by, or something like that.

Q. Um hm.

A. And I would just ask them for directions.  And I found that, a lot of times, they don’t know.

Q. [laugh]

A. [laugh]  They do not know.

Q. Well, so, what would you ask them?

A. Well, I would tell them where I was trying to get to.

Q. Uh huh.

A. You know, ask them for directions.  Tell them where I just came from and…  Or I would ask them to get me back to a certain point and then I’d go from there.

Q. So, if they say, I don’t know, do you say, OK, I’m going to ask somebody else?

A. Yes, I would just ask somebody else.

Q. Uh huh.

A. And now, thank God for cell phones.

Q. Ah.  Do you have one?

A. Yeah, I have one.

Q. Uh huh.

A. I try to keep one.

Q. So, you would just call somebody.

A. Yeah, well, one incident that happened…  I had to go to this workshop in the mall and they said it was going to be at the movie theater…the old movie theater.  So, I thought I was going to the cinema, but, actually, it was somewhere else and I wasn’t lost but I figured that my sister and I were going to be lost from each other because she was going to go one place looking for me and I had told her I was going to be something else.

Q. Right.

A. So, uh, I kind of went out…  I went in the open hallway…in an open area in the vicinity of the, uh, the movie…  I never really did find out exactly where this movie was…where the theater was, but I said…  I found…  I made sure I asked somebody was that a main entrance and so I, uh, was, you know, a ways from the…I wasn’t right there at that entrance…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …and I asked them and I said, now, if somebody comes through that door, are they going to be able to see me down here?  So, they said, yeah and--‘cause I now figured that that was where she would probably come in.

Q. Yeah.

A. And, uh, she came in and she went into the first room that she saw and then coming out, you know, she looked in my direction and she saw me.

A. So, you never made it to the workshop.

A. Yes, I made it to the workshop…this was after.

Q. Oh.

A. After the workshop.  I didn’t have any problem getting there.  But when I got there and found out where it was, I knew then…

Q. Right.

A …she was going…

Q. She was going to go to the place when you originally went to.

A. Uh huh.

Q. Right.

A. I just wanted to be in a position where, wherever she went, she was going to see me.  I made sure I found a main entrance to that movie theater and, uh, like I said, I never really did find the movie theater but I was in the vicinity of it.  It worked out right.

Q. Neat.  Yeah, I’ve heard other people say cell phone’s -- the best.

A. Yeah, I’ve tried to keep a cell phone…

Q. Yeah, I do, too.

A. …with me and the battery charged and stuff like that.

Q. What kind…

A. At least, you could…’cause you know, I would just really hate to go certain places to use a phone.

Q. Yeah.

A. So I just use the cell phone.

Q. Was that ever a problem for you…locating a phone to use?

A. Uh, no, but I just…I just didn’t want to be caught up in that situation.

Q. Yeah.

A. You know where it’s hard to find a phone.

Q. What kinds of things do you use as landmarks?

A. Um, it could be a difference in the sidewalks…you know the levels in the sidewalks…raised areas in the sidewalks.

Q. Um hm.

A. It could be a square curb or a round curb.  It could be trees or steps.  Uh, it could be a fence.  Let’s see, it could be walkways, uh, it could be, well, when you walk on the inside, it could be doorways, it could be a desk.  Um, something that’s going to be--that's pretty much stationery that’s going to be there.  It could be a bubble gum machine.

Q. [laugh]

A. It could be anything that's going to be stationary, pretty much.

Q. Um hm.

A. It could be a person…you know, if a person is in a certain place a lot…

Q. Like what?

A. Could be, like in an open area and this is where maybe where that person works and then the person is in that particular workstation quite a bit.

Q. Uh huh.

A. And then I can use that person as a landmark.

Q. What, you hear them using the phone, or…

A. Yeah.

Q. …they say hello to you, or something?

A. Yeah.

Q. Neat.

A. Or, if they’re just talking to somebody else.

Q. Right.  Neat.  Have you ever been injured when traveling?

A. Uh, no.

Q. Good.

A. So far, so good.

Q. So far, so good. Do you belong to any professional or consumer organizations?

A. Um hm.  Um, well, I’m very active in my church.

Q. Um hm.

A. And then, uh, I belong to the, uh, well I belong to NFB.

Q. Um hm.

A. And I’m with the Alpha Kappa Alpha sorority.  I’m not as active now, but I do plan to get back in to --.  It doesn’t have anything to do with, you know, being blind.  It’s just that readjusting to being home, you know.  Uh, a lot of other things.

Q. What’s the sorority do?  Community work?

A. Yeah, it’s basically a service organization.

Q. Uh huh.

A. We, you know, the one…  I was more active in the one in Shreveport.  We have different functions.  Uh, a mentoring program…I work with that…and, uh, I was in a meditation group, you know, like, if we had meetings, or different functions, and they needed somebody to do a meditation, and I would do that a lot.  And, uh, uh…just various service type projects.

Q. Um hm.

A. We’d get involved with RIF and a lot of other projects that we would work with.  Oh I do a lot of boards and committee work.  Um, the Coalition of Citizens with Disabilities, Independent Living Center, uh, and I just recently, um, got on the, um, Taskforce for the City Planning for the Next 20 Years.

Q. Uh huh.

A. And…just getting involved with that.  That’s going to be a challenge.  That’s new.  really new.

Q. Do you have a…

A. Meeting with…  Really being around people that I definitely don’t know.

Q. Yeah.  How did you get involved with that?

A. Well, a friend of mine is also blind and he's chairman of the mayor’s committee…

Q. Um hm.

A. …for people with disabilities and, uh…  The lady from the city who works with that committee…I met her through him, and she was looking for somebody…they specifically said somebody who was mobile and somebody who was real independent.

Q. Yeah.

A. You know, certain things they were looking for. So that you could be at the meetings, uh…  And they wanted somebody to be on the public participation committee, ah, who could go out and, you know, get samples of what people thought, and could write and things like that.  So, she met me through him and so I submitted a resume…

Q. Neat.

A. …and that was it.

Q. Neat.

A. I’ve been, I’ve been on the transportation advisory…paratransit advisory council.  I work with that. And, uh, I guess I’m probably overlooking something…

Q. [laugh]  I’d say you were very community minded.

A. Yeah, and, as I said, with my church.  I’m with the mentoring program and I’m the Young Women’s leader of the YWA.  I work with those girls.  I have some other people working with me though, and I’m with the choir, and, um, Sunday School teacher…  You know, things like that.  I pretty much try to do whatever…wherever I can fit in at church.

Q. Um, so, did NFB…  Did you have…  Was that the agency or the organization that got you into getting mobility, cane instruction?

A. No.  I really didn’t get connected with NFB until in the ‘80’s…

Q. Uh huh.

A. …’84.  Um, and as I said, I wanted to do the Opticon training…

Q. Right.

A. …I wanted to be better prepared for employment.  So, I was already working on [sounds like SEEDAH].  Then CETA was phased out and I was transferred to another program that I could tell was probably going to be phased out, you know, and I had already worked at the Mississippi Industry for the Blind…  So, I just wanted to be prepared for competitive employment, and they had an opportunity to go, so I did.

Q. So…

A. That’s when I went to Addie McBride Center.

Q. Um hm.  How did ADA impact you?  Do you notice a difference before or after its passage?

A. Um, as far as making things accessible…You know.  Uh, certain places have to make buildings accessible, and um, um, as far as employment…  They can’t just look at you, you know with an obvious disability, they can't just look at you and just say, um, you know, you can’t do the job.  Those kinds of things seems to be…seem to be better.

Q. Um hm.

A. And going out to eat, a lot more places do have the Braille menus or, if they don’t have it, you know, we try to tell them how they can get it, or suggest that they do get it.  Or, if they’re not going to have it, then, you know, have somebody read the menu…

Q. Cool.

A. …and, uh, so, we uh…  Just educating the public on what ADA is all about and what they can't do…  You know, what they can do without going to a lot of difficulty to do it.  You know, so…  I guess educating the public part…  And then, I’ve seen some benefits, too.

Q. Neat.  With the menus and…

A. Uh hm.

Q. …work.

A. Right.  With some attitudes are getting better but, still, that has…  I think that has a long way to go.

Q. Yeah.  Attitudes of just the general public, or employers. Or…

A. Ah, well, employers, I guess.

Q. Uh huh.

A. Yeah, they…  A lot of employers really have a long way to go.  Especially when it comes to blindness.

Q. Yeah.  Because…

A. You’ve got…  You have too many stereotypes.  You know, preconceived ideas…

Q. Yeah.

A. I always tell people that, if I were you, I couldn’t do it.

Q. [laugh]

A. And that’s what I usually tell them.

Q. [laugh]  That’s great.  [laugh]  I guess that gets them to think twice.

A. Oh, yeah.

Q. I’ll have to remember that one.

A. [laugh]

Q. [laugh] Um, to what do you attribute your present level of mobility?

A. Um, my mother.

Q. Uh huh.

A. She did not shelter us.  We did everything anybody else did.  And I guess, uh, when I said I knew I as blind, you know, when I was three or four years old, but I wasn’t really confronted with the problems of being blind until I got to be a teenager…you know, until I started meeting new people…more people started coming into my circle…and they would act different toward blindness.  But I had a real good foundation by the then because of the kids I grew up with and, you know, the way that my mother was…  It was just normal.

Q. Yeah.

A. Everything we did, we did the afternoon…  you know, the neighborhood plays that people do.  We acted in the plays, we helped write the plays, you know.  It was just normal.  and I think it was because of her. She always had us being involved in church.  We lived real close to the church, so, any time they needed a kid to do something, we probably were the ones…

Q. Yeah.

A. …to do it. You know so. She didn’t shelter us when it came to that.

Q. Neat.  Well that’s the interview that I’ve been wanting to do with you.

A. [laugh]  It’s been phone tag and all that kind of stuff.

Q. [laugh]

A. I forgot what Quinn [??] said your project was for.

Q. Well, I’m writing a book.

A. I thought it was a book.

Q. I have been trying…

A. I hope I said something that could help.

Q. Oh, you really have, and you’ve been so interesting.  I’m just so glad that…  You know, I’m really kind of embarrassed that I stood you up and would make dates…

A. Oh, don’t worry about that.

Q. So, you’ve been so great.  Um, you know, I do teach mobility…I teach at Hunter College to future mobility instructors.

A. Oh…

Q. So, I also take these interviews, and I go straight to my students…

A. Um hm.

Q. …and give them, you know, new tips and strategies that I’ve been learning.

A. Um hm.

Q. So, it’s just helping the next generation as well.

A. Well, actually, I’m looking forward to when I do move out on my own, because that will, uh, you know help me to use my mobility a little more.  I use it now, but, as I say, you know, now, basically, I’m using the bus to uh, basically, to go to and from work, or, if I have to go somewhere else, you know, I use…  Or, I’m in a car with somebody, you know…  But if I’m living by myself, you know, I would take the chance to go out, call the grocery store, you know, just to experience that.

Q. Yeah.

A. I haven’t experienced that ‘cause, when my husband was living, you know, he did it or somebody else would go to the grocery store and I would basically, you know, do…  I knew what I was looking for, I just needed them to help me with it.  Or, going shopping for clothes, I know what I’m looking for…

Q. Right.

A. …but I just want somebody to describe the colors and, you know…

Q. Right.

A. …I just like the idea of shopping with other people.

Q. Oh, yeah.  That’s fun.

A. So, when I do move out, I will gain some of that…  I will be able to use my mobility skills a little bit more than I’m using now.

Q. Well, I tell you, you sure impressed me.  [laugh]

A. I’m a little crazy.

Q. [laugh]

A. You’ll probably find that…

Q. I think you have to be.  [laugh]

A. No, I’ll do it on a dare.  If somebody tells me, especially if they say I can’t do it because I’m blind…or you just told me to do it.

Q. That’s right.  Watch out.

A. You have just lit the fire…

Q. [laugh]

A. …’cause I’m going to do it or kill myself in the process.

Q. [laugh]

A. If I have to be hanging out, for whatever…  I may just be hanging there really.

Q. [laugh]

A. If you say I can't do it. I’ve got to prove you wrong.

Q. There you go.

A. And I do want to be a role model for other people.

Q. Yeah.

A. For younger people who come…you know.

Q. Well, I wonder if you might know of anyone that I could talk to.  I’m looking for people who are employed, who are adults, who are visually impaired.

A. Uh, um, I can’t think of anybody right now, but, um, what’s your phone number again?

Q. It’s area code 914

A. Um hm.

Q. 896

A. Um hm.

Q. 1152

A. 896 1152.  OK.  I’m going to write that down before I forget it.  896 1152.  ‘Cause I have a tendency…I will reverse numbers.

Q. Do you want to go get your equipment?

A. I’ll remember.

Q. [laugh

A. I’m going to write it down as soon as you hang up.

Q. ‘Cause it sounds like you know some really interesting people.

A. Um hm..

Q. I would love to talk to them as well.

A. OK.

Q. So, if you…

A. I do know someone who travels with a dog.  You might want…

Q. Yeah.

A. [can’t understand the name] and I’ll ask her to see if she would do it.  She’s independent…she gets out a lot.

Q. Super.  Yeah, that’d be great.

A. ‘Cause I don’t think she’s very comfortable with the cane.  She has a dog.  She… I might get her to do it.

Q. What about that guy that got you on that board.

A. Oh, Sam ____________.  He’ll probably do it.

Q. Cool.  So, do you want to just ask them first?

A. Yeah.  Let me ask them.

Q. Would you like me to call you back and see?

A. You want to call me…  When do you want to call me, ‘cause I can talk to them realy quick.

Q. I could call you back tomorrow.

A. OK.

Q. Great.

A. Tomorrow evening.

Q. Yeah.

A. OK.

Q. What’s a good time for me to call you tomorrow?

A. You can call me…you can call at, um, six or seven.

Q. OK.

A. Six or seven my time.

Q. Great.

A. And I’ll find out and let you know and then I’ll, you know, get their phone numbers for you.

Q. Super.  Um, six or seven your time.  So…  I’ll probably call you at seven your time.

A. OK.

Q. Great.

A. That’ll be fine.

Q.  Neat.  Well, OK, I’ll call you tomorrow then.

A. OK.

Q. Thanks a lot, Barbara.

A. Uh huh.

Q. Bye.

A. Bye.

Interview date: 11/21/99

Transcriber: Lenni 

Transcription date: 

Reviewed: Ambrose-Zaken

Review Date: 11/24/2024