Cultural Curriculum Chat with Jebeh Edmunds
Looking for a fun, authentic podcast that helps you learn how to incorporate Multicultural Education? Are you stuck in finding inspiration for creating a more inclusive classroom community? This podcast is designed to help you get inspired by knowledgeable resources, tips, and insightful humor with educator Jebeh Edmunds.
Cultural Curriculum Chat with Jebeh Edmunds
Season 6 Episode #2 My Interview with Dr. Ericka
Ever wondered how to create an inclusive classroom or workplace that truly values diversity? This episode promises to equip you with practical strategies and profound insights into DEI, featuring Dr. Ericka! Jebeh takes us on her incredible journey from Liberia to Duluth, Minnesota, sharing her extensive experience as an educator and cultural consultant. You’ll discover why diversity is indispensable in today’s interconnected world and how to cultivate cultural competency in educational settings. Alongside, Jebeh emphasizes the critical role of self-care while engaging in this transformative work.
Through powerful personal stories, we tackle the deeply ingrained stereotypes that many individuals face daily. We explore the nuances of identity and representation, from the classroom to the healthcare sector, shedding light on the importance of allowing people to express their authentic selves. Media and literature also play a pivotal role in this dialogue, and you'll get recommendations like the Netflix series "Man in Full" and the novel "Black Cake" to deepen your understanding of privilege, race, and legacy. These narratives aim to break down barriers and foster a more inclusive society.
Lastly, learn from seasoned DE&I practitioners on how to align company values with employee needs effectively. We provide actionable advice on creating inclusive work environments, from adjusting policies to meet diverse needs to harnessing the power of anonymous feedback. Insights from expert Dr. Erica underscore the vital role of emotional intelligence and cultural awareness in DEI initiatives. Expect to come away inspired to challenge your biases, foster inclusive spaces, and promote mental well-being and productivity in your organization. Join us for a conversation that promises to inspire personal growth and collective advancement.
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Welcome to another episode of Better with Dr Erica. I'm your host, dr Erica, and today we have a fantastic guest who's making a difference in the world of diversity, equity and inclusion. Lately, so many are acting like DEI is a bad word, and I'm excited to have this opportunity to discuss why it matters. Joining me is Jebe Edmonds, the founder and CEO of Jebe Cultural Consulting LLC. With over 18 years of experience as an educator, jebe has been a powerful advocate for diversity and cultural competency, offering insights and strategies that have shaped communities and workplaces alike. Questions this episode will answer. Number one what are the best tips and tricks for promoting different cultures? Number two why is diversity essential in today's world? Number three how should we approach and perceive multicultural education? Whether you're a leader looking to build a more inclusive team, someone passionate about multicultural education, are trying to understand why diversity matters, or looking for a language to discuss the importance of diversity, equity and inclusion, this episode is for you. So let's get started.
Speaker 1:Hey, better Nation. Dr Erica here, and we are here with a brand new episode of Better with Dr Erica. And guess what I did? Dr Erica here, and we are here with a brand new episode of Better With Dr Erica. And guess what I did? I drove all the way from Chattanooga just to record for y'all. Okay, I'm telling stories. I came home because I like being home and I have been in withdrawal from my couch, but I also came home at this time so I could be in a great environment to record this podcast, just for y'all.
Speaker 1:But you know, I told you kind of my hack of life is my number one love language is quality time, and I get to do quality time with all of my guests. So it's one of those things where I get to bring great knowledge to you all. But every time I do a podcast interview, it pours and fills into my cup. So the first thing I want to say is I hope you are doing something today that pours back into you and fills your cup, because guess what I am? So let's go ahead and get it started.
Speaker 1:So I have a wonderful guest today and I'm going to ask for forgiveness. I'm going to do my best because I want to say this out loud to ask for forgiveness. I'm going to do my best because I want to say this out loud is names matter. Names matter and I think everyone deserves for all of us to do our best to pronounce names, because the names do matter. So this is I'm like taking deep breaths and counting and making sure I get her name right, because it is like the coolest, her name is super cool, it's super cool and I want to make sure I get it right. So my guest is the fabulous Jebba Edmonds. Now she is even more fantastic than her name.
Speaker 2:I got to say that.
Speaker 1:But the next thing I have to say is I told y'all a few seasons ago, reading bios was not my ministry, despite the fact that I do well with reading and I read every day, and you may see me take this jacket off because, um, full disclosure I have recently started having hot flashes and I feel like one is coming on now. Um, that is the moment where you hear or get some idea that I am not quite as young as I look, because I feel like I'm going to be progressively glistening because I see I love. It literally just started for me and like I don't, I don't. Now I know why every why it's a topic of conversation everywhere I go with all of my friends and online, because once it finally happened, it looks good though.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, thank you. It's kind of like I've got the sympathy hot flash, because I'm going through it too and I'm like, oh, as soon as you said it.
Speaker 1:I know, and it's one of those things where, thank god, dewey and glass skin is in, because I'm like I'm doing dewey right now and it's partly because I'm flashing a little bit and sweating, and if you, you may not get to see this if you're listening, but if you check the video out, you will see me glistening. But can you do me a favor? Since no one can tell the audience about you like you, can you tell the audience a little bit about yourself?
Speaker 2:Yes, Thank you, Dr Erica. Well, I have been an educator for over 18 years in the classroom and originally from Liberia, emigrated with my parents in the early 80s, grew up in the suburbs of Minneapolis and have a communication degree from UMD as well as a master's of science in teaching from the College of St Scholastica, both from Duluth, Minnesota. I have a business that I have created four years ago. It's going strong. I'm the founder and CEO of Jebe Cultural Consulting, where I do all things of training organizations in the diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging space, organizations in the diversity, equity, inclusion and belonging space, as well as training school districts in the cultural competency and cultural responsive education work. And yes, I live here in Duluth, Minnesota, with my husband, Andy, and our two teenage boys, Maxwell and Mateo, and I'm just so happy to be in the guest chair with you today, Dr Erica.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you, and the kind of cool thing was is. I remember I first looked at your bio and I saw Duluth. There's a Duluth Georgia.
Speaker 2:And I was like oh, she's in Minnesota.
Speaker 1:I always get shocked when there are cities in other states and I feel like the default is there isn't just one or anything.
Speaker 1:But I was like, oh, there's a Duluth Minnesota, I am want to anything. But I was like, oh, there's a duluth minnesota, I am here for it. And I'm excited about taping this because recently I released an episode with don smith and we were actually talking about some of our wishes for the education system. As far as wishing that that, I'm not going to speak education in general, I'll say educational system in the united states of these americas, because there are plenty of things other places do differently and there are things that other people do much better than us. So I'm not going to lump in all education with ours, but we were talking about how wonderful it would be if actually there was curriculum and time spent on emotional intelligence yes in education and I love that you have such a long background in looking at diversity and inclusion and cultural competence in education, because I'm a child atlas and adult psychiatrist.
Speaker 1:But you know I do always have a soft spot for the kids, since I did some extra training to work with the kids. Is that a lot of this stuff, if these general values and perspectives of the world are so shaped by childhood and what you see, and we spend so much time in education when we're younger, that just thinking of what it would mean for people to be more accepting, tolerant and understand other cultures starting from a very young age, how?
Speaker 2:different. The world would look Totally and listening to the children because I was that child in the classroom with the name that the teacher would be flustered to pronounce, and then hearing, like what is the Jebe? And having to show them oh, that's who I am and this is the map in our classroom of where Liberia is. And having them asking me all these questions of, oh, they have cities in Liberia, they have homes, and me feeling of how I fell into this ENI space was to disrupt and dispel those stereotypes my teachers had of me in the class.
Speaker 1:How can you imagine that everything everyone saw about Africa was Tarzan?
Speaker 2:Yes, and the jungle, yes. And the shock and awe of my parents, who were also educators and professionals, as immigrants coming in, as you know, the the parent to come in and visit and share about Liberia in the history, and that really put me on that trajectory of being proud of who I was, my name being named after the chief of our tribe who was my aunt, and no other relative on my side is named Jeba except me. And so having that pride of my parents always saying you know who your people are and when you are around other Liberians they know exactly the tribal group you belong to. And so for me, listening in that emotional intelligence you're saying Dr Erica is, you know, a lot of us educators, we are so quick on the pacing guide and the curriculum at hand and we got to check off all these boxes, but the most learning I got was from my students, who made me take a pause and say that my own biases and my own assumptions of this kid. They're going to teach me who they really are If we give them that chance to share themselves with the rest of us. You know, I think that's the important thing.
Speaker 2:Doing this work, you know, is to listen to your colleagues, listen to your neighbor and also knowing that we exist, we have been here, and the big push of, oh, we want to include everybody. It's like, yeah, I want to be included. But you see me in the neighborhood and then you're asking me are you lost? But don't you want me to be included in the neighborhood. But then again you switch it and go oh, you're here. How did you swing this house? How did you afford this car? Oh, ok, I got a lot of work.
Speaker 2:I think you were cleaning the house. Oh honey, I have so many stories of you know and I was thinking to myself I should make a podcast of you know. She owns the house and that contractor she hired, she paid for that contracted service, versus him giving the bill to my other contractor, who happens to be white, and it's like, okay, let me just let it marinate a little bit Before I correct y'all.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's always something, because that reminds me of when I was Training in one of the hospitals I worked in.
Speaker 1:There weren't many people of the diaspora period African, caribbean, african American and I always remember I at that point. Um, how they designate us after you finish medical school is, you know, people hear about internship or residency, especially with all of these medical tv shows, but they call us pgy1 too, so it stands for postgraduate year. Okay, so I had already completed a residency and started a fellowship. So I did four years of general psychiatry training and then went to a hospital to do child and adolescent psychiatry training. So I trained long enough that I could be an attending physician, but I was a trainee again, trainee again, and I would have interns that were non-melanated, that would ask me to get papers or make phone calls, thinking I was the secretary, when I was actually significantly more senior than them. Than them, yes, yes, you know, and that's why there was a movement a few years ago of Black female physicians doing what a doctor looks like, because people just automatically assume certain things about certain people. So I'm really excited to have this conversation and do our little piece of disrupting.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, I can't wait to disrupt with you together.
Speaker 1:Yay, but right before we get to disrupting one of the things I like to do to let my audience get to know you a little bit plus, this is like a resource. Time for me is, um, usually a lot of folks I know to get a little break from everything going on. They'll be listening to audio books or binging something on TV, or or listening to something, some music, what, what currently are you listening, reading or watching?
Speaker 2:Oh man, I, okay. I am currently watching we just finished man in Full on Netflix. It's directed by Regina King oh gosh, what's his name? Jeff Daniels is kind of like this crooked real estate agent mogul based in Atlanta, but it's got all of these. It's just great writing by David E Kelly.
Speaker 2:So my husband and I have been like at the edge of our seats and it's just shows. Oh my gosh. It shows privilege, race, um, you know, and and how people really manipulate the system for or against each other, and legacy and reputation. You have, oh my gosh, so many amazing actors in there and I can't remember all of them by the top of my head. I think it's Lisa Lee Don't quote me on it Celine, don't quote me on it, and oh my gosh, so many cool actors and actresses in it. But it's like crime drama, all kinds of stuff and all kinds of things in between and financial drama. So that's kind of a good escape for us.
Speaker 2:Another thing I've been reading, yeah, is Black Cake, a great novel about another Caribbean woman, diaspora, that has a new life, changed her life, but after she dies, all of the tea, all of the secrets that she had buried about her. I saw the. You know the miniseries on Hulu and my sister's like the book is better. So of course the book is better. I can't. I don't have it. It's on my nightstand. I'm like I can't remember who the author is, but yeah, so that's what's given me. The great escape of things is, you know, the day-to-day I love. I love mysteries, I love twists and turns and that kind of drama. That's not drama in real life, but you know, that's my thing, yeah.
Speaker 1:I appreciate those recommendations because I'm always looking for something. My listeners probably already know this that I've gone down a rabbit hole of Korean dramas, so periodically I have to mix in something that's not Korean because I need something without subtitles. But the other thing is, when I dine alone I read, and I am at the. I'm probably three quarters through the last Bridgerton book. Oh yes, so I'm on the one, the book for Gregory, and after that I'm going to need another book. So, since I typically do personal and professional development as audiobooks in the morning, black Cake would be excellent. After I finished that and it eventually I'll I need to go ahead and start watching the new season of bridgerton. That's on.
Speaker 1:But I started seeing everyone say the whole thing didn't get released. So now I'm back and forth of whether or not I'm going to wait until the second half is released. I would. But I'm curious. A part of me is curious because they've done some different things with what, effectively, were the books that preceded it. So it's not going to be I know it's not going to be exactly like the book, but also Shonda gives a totally different kind of flavor. Then, yes, then books. You know people. People are brown, yes, and then blue Brown, yes, and then blew a high. So I'm really excited to see what what they do, and also I do enjoy the fact that um Penelope looks more like a regular person.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh, and I did. I was on the. I've been watching Bridgerton, you know, from the beginning, and I'm that one patiently waiting, impatiently waiting for, you know, june 13th for the next half. So I was so excited when it came on I was like, no, I gotta wait.
Speaker 1:Thank you, thanks for letting me know, because June 13th really isn't that far no, it's not that far, but it feels far well, it's not that far, because I haven't started so I'm, yes waiting for another installment, like I'm sitting salty that avatar. The last airbender ended and I have no idea when the next portion comes on. I'm like, um, can I get some more zuko? Yes, yes, so I'm, I'm here for you and I feel your pain, um, and I think I'm gonna wait till june 13th.
Speaker 2:So thanks for okay, yes, you're welcome. I'm just too impatient well, it's, it's they.
Speaker 1:They leave it and you just want to know and, and that particular book is really interesting. Plus, I think the thing is is because her character was so big in other, in other stories, the way they've done the tv show, you're already emotionally invested in her, versus when you're reading the books and you get like the hyacinth and stuff like that, where you know these are people that you just don't know that well.
Speaker 2:So you're, you get invested but you don't start out invested but you know yeah, you know, just want to know, and I should get those bridgerton books and start, yeah, and that'll help me with the better background of things too.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, they're, they're intriguing. The thing to have the expectation is it's not the same um, it's kind of apples and oranges. It's not like um, and I realize we're we're going, we're going totally sideways, but I promise we're going to bring this back. It's not like comparing um, like I'm trying to the divergent series to the movies, because those were the movies were absolutely terrible. The books were epic, like. There's a point where I don't know how I end up reading some of these random young adult books. You know, you know, and hunger games actually translated pretty well, but divergent was terrible, good to know, and these I think it's, they're just apples and oranges, like the, the books. Definitely. I think the books are good, um, they're going to be some things. You know that Shonda Rhimes put the really new twist on them. So the interesting thing is they don't totally spoil because they're very different yeah, yeah, I like that.
Speaker 1:I like that. So as as we're talking about the wonderful world of of books and Bridgerton and all of those things, and and and one of the interesting things and one of the reasons I love having these conversations is that and part of my practice and part of the things we do is one of the lines that has been controversial at times, of kind of how people describe people in like medical notes, you know, and and what is, what is? What is the role of race when you put it in there? And also I've been in the room of so many different conversations around what it means and what people identify as, especially because the United States has a really interesting culture where race is more attributed to color, which is different than other other places.
Speaker 1:And then all of the mixed feelings people have if someone looks at someone and thinks they're one thing but they identify something else. And it's not that one's right, you know, one's wrong, it's just, you know. It's one of the reasons I ask specific questions of my patients, because I can't look at someone and tell automatically if they're going to be African American, afro, caribbean, afro, latina or Latina, something else, that's just brown, you know, you can't just always look and assume. So I'd love to just ask you how do you identify just altogether in general, yes, altogether.
Speaker 2:I identify as Liberian American because I was born in Liberia and became a US citizen and and then, if you really want to, I also identify as a black woman. You know that to me, I feel there's power behind blackness, and to stand in that power and that pride, I think, is something that I feel most closest to.
Speaker 1:Well, I am totally here for it and I know we talked about some of your experiences when you were younger, as far as being in school and people not understanding your name and kind of being like what is that? And being even older and being in an environment or neighborhoods where people like you live here. So I'd be curious to know how did you end up getting into DE&I work?
Speaker 2:Yes, Well, when I started this space, you know, teaching my students in the classroom, you know that Africa is, you know, more than just it's a continent, you know and things like that and showing my students over the years and then going into you know, talking with my staff that I worked alongside you know. So I feel like I have always been a DE&I practitioner, looking and searching for curriculum that doesn't cause and perpetuate more harm. That was one of the biggest things. I was involved in our African American Cultural Center in our school district for eight years before I was a classroom teacher for 10. And looking and searching for resources, finding community members that could help be those disruptors.
Speaker 2:I always say I was doing this work already for 18 years when I became a professional and starting my cultural consulting business. I really put that into practice of what does that look like, sound like, feel like in the workforce and having my lived experience, stories, best practices that I researched. I love the McKinsey and Reed and Harvard Business Review for those stats and facts and figures. And also, you know, walking my clients through, getting through the crux of what your mission, vision and values look like, need to also align with your DEI and be purpose as well, and walking them through as a teacher, you know, showing them the evidence, showing them that, so I can say I've been doing this work for about 20 years now professionally, but, you know, really doing it as a full-time practitioner. I would say for four years, yeah, In the DEI space.
Speaker 1:And what do you have out there? Cause I feel like I started learning more about it because my, my best friend, actually transitioned into from being a corporate trainer into DEI work and one of the interesting things was I remember early in COVID, around the time of George Floyd, it was kind of like you know, it was like D and I became kind of in vogue and companies were like we need something. But you notice people were just tapping folks that didn't necessarily have any experience in it other than being from some type of identified group that was not white male exactly, yeah, um, what would you say is the difference between someone that really is an expert in DE and I work versus someone just being like I'm a member of a diverse community?
Speaker 2:What's the difference? I think the difference between that is your proven track record of the companies that you have served. I think that's a big thing about that Versus somebody coming in and speaking at a lunch and learn or oh, I have this affinity to this and this is what I should do or change, not saying that their value isn't there. But I feel like if you have the expertise in having a podcast, like I do every week, that talks about you know DE&IB strategies, you know going and being a keynote speaker, as well as having companies seek you out, hire you, and also you know give testimonials of your work and evidence base of what you did for them, that's what I think sets me apart from others that just happen to be affiliated with said group, like you talked about. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:So what are some tips and tricks that you help people learn to help promote different cultures?
Speaker 2:Yes, the tips and tricks. I feel that has helped a lot of companies that I've served is meeting their BIPOC colleagues and colleagues of other, you know, marginalized, underrepresented groups. Where they're at. A lot of people want to insert themselves or feel like this is how it should be done and it's like just sit down. You know, like Kendrick Lamar, stay humble. You know like let us tell you what we feel is the space that we need.
Speaker 2:I think, first and foremost, another tip and trick is to seek out those resources from the lived experiences of others. You know a lot of times when we were in that, you know that first wave of. You know that awakening of D and I and what is it? How can we move forward? A lot of it was people would ask Jeva, educate me, tell me what to do. And I would just say Google is free because I have to. You know process, what just happened, you know, with the murder of George Floyd. How can I translate it to my children? As well as how can I still be in this space to do the work that I need to do, and so a lot of that. You can find people with your voice that they can listen to and get you know that fly on the wall type of learning. I think a lot of it needs to come through. So, yeah, find those books, resources from those voices that are not yours. I think is a really good tip and trick. And also, when you are starting to do your diversity, equity, inclusion policies, definitely get those.
Speaker 2:You know anonymous surveys, because you know those ideas like I have to work, I need this job, you know. So I can't really be honest. If I can be honest, it has to be. You know completely. You know anonymous, because I know that fear the very few of us in the positions that we hold. It's like there's a lot of us that will take on more of that emotional tax in order to keep their family and in their life sustaining. So for me, if you really want to know, keep it anonymous and they'll tell you exactly what needs to be done.
Speaker 1:I'm totally here for that and I know we had some conversations in the past I had. The best friend I alluded to is Joy Stevens, so she's actually been on two episodes of the podcast in the past. One was a solo episode and one was actually. I did an episode with people that had graduated from HBCUs Nice, which was, which was, which was really fun. But I know you mentioned values and, and for me personally, as I've continued to do a wide variety of work from seeing patients to interfacing with people through the podcast and through speaking, is that there are lots of conversations that happen.
Speaker 1:I feel like mission and mission, vision and purpose, especially purpose has been really big. You know, in the middle of I feel like through COVID, there was this increase of self-awareness and people wanting to get better or be more spiritual, and purpose just came up. And you know you talk to business coaches and a lot of life coaches. Purpose is one of the first thing everyone works on. But what I started realizing that for a lot of people you know purpose. Purpose is very important as far as alignment and discernment, it's extremely important.
Speaker 1:But the other thing that I found that helps, either causes distress or makes people comfortable, is values? Is that in when there's a mismatch, personally or professionally, with values, that people have very different perspectives and and very different ways of operating, and I noticed, when you were talking about kind of company's mission, vision and values, that I think one of the things I would like to ask you, because I'm curious to see how you navigate that when working with other organizations, is how do you help, or are there specific values that you're going to help them shift to? Because there are a lot of different values that someone could be in line with their values but be terrible to anybody that's not like them. Yes, if you're, you can have values of, of productivity and changing the face of an industry and something else and still be in line with those values and still treat people tear terribly, yes, you know.
Speaker 2:So I'm curious to see what types of values you feel like are aligned with inclusive environments yeah, the values for me when I'm working with my clients is, and just like you said, that cutting edge be, but how they treat their staff is really important. I usually, just by researching the companies that I work alongside, I really do do that research on, you know, how are they treating their staff? What does their policies that I can find, you know, really align? There's one company I worked alongside with, for example, and they really changed their value with bereavement leave. My father passed away five years ago and I was working at the school district but he passed away in Liberia and that yeah, and so with our bereavement leave, it only gave us four days and I couldn't go to his funeral because I can't go to Libya back and still teach. And again, when you're talking about the values of a company, they really did look internally and switch their whole bereavement policy to accommodate their international employees and because of the story that I shared. So that purpose of yep, we have this bottom line, we have this to do, but the value shifted, which I felt was a big win for them to say, wow, there are people like Jeba in our workforce and the fact that she couldn't fulfill that right for her family because of that value of the organization she was with. That's what made me leave, because it did not, you know, align with my value to leave and go on my own, because I did not want to work in an organization that says, oh, you only have four days, it's only this minute thing. So you know, yeah, so I don't know if that answered your question fully, but I feel like the work I do, I really take the time to see what is their value and how are they treating their staff.
Speaker 2:I purposely do not work along with companies that come to me as a reactive approach of we're about to get sued and I need you to come in and help. You know, keep the peace and be diplomat. No, that's not what we're here for. What we're here for is to go, you know, and audit organizationally how can we do better and move forward. Not, oh, my goodness, we're really on that verge. I need to call Jeba and you know, and get her in, because to me, it's already too late when they hire me, in that sense, because it's like they expect the world and the bandaid and it's like the wound has already been there, you know. So for me, I really do that approach with my practice of looking at what you have already and what we can do to prevent that wound from happening, and that's a thing I really value in the work that I do.
Speaker 1:And I agree. I mean that's huge because they recently there were some recent changes in some organizations where, like the American Psychiatric Association, has its first black CEO, actually a friend of mine.
Speaker 2:I feel like Dr.
Speaker 1:Markita Wills. I'm gonna tell her be like you're getting shout outs in all my podcasts lately, yes, but I I'd say the thing is is there's always these conversations around the difference between things being performative versus people being genuinely interested in change and innovation, and I think the one of the biggest reasons we end up having these conversations, beyond just the fact of saying, from a basic human level, every human matters.
Speaker 1:Yes, no matter what spiritual background you're in, yeah, there's always some level of kindness and love to all and value that everyone is a creation of whatever the respective higher power is agreed, agreed, but also just the fact that you know, just as we look in a lot of environments, you'll see that a lot of really successful and really innovative people have like ADHD or in some ways. You know the buzzword now are neurodivergent. People with a wide variety of experiences gives you different perspectives to help you actually ultimately be more productive and to serve others in a better way. Yes, but I think the other thing is just on the flip side of when we're in environments that are not, are not welcoming or accepting that there can actually be some mental health ramifications of that. Yes, big time, big time. You know, from people burning out even faster than they would have otherwise, having significant deficits in self-esteem and self-confidence and eventually end up depressed or anxious or self-medicating with substances, that there are real life consequences. You know, and also one of the things I noticed, I recently was a part of some interviews for a fellowship and you'll see, there we had one person who was brilliant.
Speaker 1:They were brilliant and you'd ask them a question and the first thing they'd say is I don't have experience in that. But then when you talk to them they actually could name a million a bunch of things they did, but you know, it's just one of those things where, when people don't feel comfortable, they show up differently. Yes, so you know you're not showing up at your best. Someone then has to be able to understand and decode and approximate what your best is, because that's not how you're showing up, because you have all these other things, all the doubts, the self-doubt, the self-criticism, the questions, the lack of confidence. And then, on the flip side, there's someone that has been in different environments with different lived experiences, that does not have any of this mental baggage they're bringing, that is confident and just rolling through everything.
Speaker 2:And the.
Speaker 1:Thing is is, then it's comparing apples and oranges, but a lot of people don't understand. It's apples and oranges, yes.
Speaker 1:And just helping to put people in the best position so that you can show up confident and comfortable and truly demonstrate what your capacity is, because I feel like you're starting behind already, because when you're not confident and you talk like this, yes, what I know, right you know, or that, oh, I don't think. I know that, oh yeah, and the times where people just don't try because they don't think they can do it when they can, and then there's someone that you know, it's kind of how people sit up and they're like how are all these mediocre people running stuff? Because they were confident in their.
Speaker 2:They were confident they were confident and even, like you said too, that that shy unsure of themselves, they have a gift and maybe their way for them to shine doesn't look like the way that you shine, and to harness that. Everybody, like you said, has the right to shine in their own way and to recognize for certain projects and things like that, it's like I like to be in the background to do this and you know this person. They can share and showcase. You know that presentation because they have that confidence. But we all can work in tandem together. I think that's also important too. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And what does multicultural education mean to you? Because I do want to circle back to this education thing.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes. Well, I feel that multicultural education is a desire to seek out different cultures that aren't your own and to learn about it. I always say you don't have to be an expert in every single group or country or whatever, but to have some background knowledge, country or whatever, but to have some background knowledge. So when somebody introduces themselves like, oh, I'm from Barbados, you can go okay, I know that area, or I've heard of somebody who's from there. You know. That to me is multicultural education. I feel, like so many of us, when they encounter somebody like me or somebody else of a different cultural background, that their assumptions, you know. When they meet me, they go oh, you speak so well, yes, you know, like, and it's like it's an exception, like, oh, I met this girl named Jebe and she's from Liberia, and da, da, da, da da. And then they mix up Liberia with Libya, you know, and then it's just like. Those are the things when I talk about.
Speaker 2:Multicultural education is to have some knowledge base. To go, oh, liberia, their main language is English. Okay, she's speaking to me in English. Like to have just that very foundation. Because of all the things. I can't tell you how many times I am again, disrupting, correcting. You know, like, how do you have family members that are in the government? Because I do, you know, I have family members in the military. Oh, how is that possible? So again, that's why I call multicultural education is learning other people's. You know culture, just to have that background, to know, you know even holidays aren't all the same, but to have an acknowledgement that they exist, you know, even if you don't practice them, but that they exist. That's, that's what I love.
Speaker 1:I also love that. A lot of times it's just having a perspective or coming from a place of curiosity. Yes, pleasant curiosity, pleasant curiosity. Not just looking for someone to be your personal Wikipedia yes, yes, I love that, but you may not know everything. But being open and curious to know what people's experiences are.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Or what makes them feel comfortable, because that also comes up a lot. You know, just being able to simply ask questions of what's someone's pronouns, yes, yeah, yeah. And and adjusting to the fact and accepting that the world changes that just because some of us were born in the 70s, 60s, 50s or whatever doesn't give an excuse to not try.
Speaker 2:That part, that part, and it's not harming anybody. You know, if you're coming up to me and asking my pronouns, I wouldn't be upset.
Speaker 1:I say yes, she, her, and I keep it moving, you know, and so it's nothing invasive, you know, and I feel like with multicultural education, it's not necessarily race or ethnicity, it is all walks of life, of learning of different cultures and different identity well, and I think this is this is a good time to transition, because at some point I have to let you go about your life as much as I thoroughly and I'm having a lot of fun at some point, I know and you, you go about your life as much as I thoroughly enjoy you, I'm having so much fun and I'm having a lot of fun.
Speaker 1:At some point, I know you know you have something other than to do to hang out with Dr Erica. I love it, I love it, I love your show, thank you. So we're going to transition to the speed round. You ready, okay, yes, yes. So my first one is what's the best compliment that you've ever received? I?
Speaker 2:know, my mother told me this when I had my first son and she said I am proud of the woman that you have become. That gets me every time. Yeah, I had my, I had my coffee. When I was looking at all your questions this morning, I'm like that was it. That was it. And you know, having your first child and not knowing what's going on. But when she said that to me I'm like okay, I can do this. Finally, that validation of oh, I'm proud of you.
Speaker 1:You're proud of me. Okay, yeah, I wish we could. You know, as child psychiatrists and people that work across the lifespan, I wish we could do group therapy for everybody that's about to be a parent. So I feel like there's so much anxiety involved and people just don't realize. Nobody really knows how to do this. I mean there's, you know there have been numerous books, but none of them are perfect, you know, and then you laugh, they don't even age.
Speaker 1:Well, cause, you know, when I was young, everybody talked about Dr Spock's book. Nobody's talking about using that as a major reference now. No, not at all. Yeah, it's amazing. So so, talking about these wonderful things your mom said, said to you what is one piece of advice?
Speaker 2:you'd like to tell your younger self oh, stop worrying. All the time. I was such a worry wart, I still am, but I have. Now I've checked myself a lot more because my husband also says stop worrying so much. But yeah, just to stop worrying and just revel in what's happening and and being that. You know I was a you know go-getter, I still am, and so just to stop worrying, it'll all work out, you know, and and of all the things I did leading up to my profession now in my own business, you know, founding my own business and and being successful in that right, it's like, stop worrying, you'll get there, it all makes sense yeah, I know, and it's just the the amount of energy.
Speaker 1:It takes to worry all the time too. Yes, so much energy, it's a lot of energy but now we talked about energy, so what is is your superpower?
Speaker 2:My superpower, oh my goodness, I love like giving people, like thoughtful gifts. That's my superpower, like if somebody's hurting and things like that. A good friend of mine she's just lost her mother-in-law a couple days ago, so I went and got grief groceries. I got her some groceries so she didn't have to think of a meal, you know, and it's like I don't, I don't need the fanfare, but just like, okay, I thought of you. So I like giving thoughtful gifts, you know, thoughtful handwritten cards. So that's my, that's my superpower. I feel, yeah, that I take the time to think of something and give it away. Yeah, that's my favorite thing.
Speaker 1:Well, I'm excited and it's. It's been such an honor to sit here and and have quality time and talk to you, but do you have any final thoughts for the listeners and people of better nation?
Speaker 2:Yes, a better nation. I think we all do better, like Maya Angelou says, when we know better. And there there is no right or wrong sense of trying to know better, and I think that's the biggest thing is just be that, like you said, that playful, curious, and, and, and, and.
Speaker 1:look at your neighbor and and just value what they bring yeah, I am here for it, and where can the people find you if you want?
Speaker 2:to be found? Oh, yes, well, I'm on Instagram at culturally Jeba. You can find all of my resources on Jeba Edmonds dot com, and I also have a podcast that drops every Friday of the cultural curriculum chat. So I have lots of multicultural educational books that I love. I do book reviews, I interview authors and people that are also DE&I practitioners in the workplace as well. So, yes, I'd love to have you on my show too, dr Erica. Oh, well, I would love to be there.
Speaker 2:I'm nervous, especially, like you said that, cultural, that you know, emotional intelligence, especially in this space of DE&I, and how we can, you know, improve our muscles of staking to it and keeping it moving. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I'm so honored that you have chosen to make space for myself and my listeners, and to all of you out there listening I want to say congratulations, because you know what. You just took some time for yourself, and the great thing about these kinds of times is the time you took for yourself will actually benefit other people, but the first thing was for it to benefit you, so I just want to say thank you for trusting us. My final thought is sometimes you just have to try that. You don't often get better by doing nothing, and I want to challenge each one of you. You know I talk about be better, do better and live better. But I want you to be better, do better and live better with understanding other people, and there's room for all of us.
Speaker 1:I am a Black cis female that is heterosexual. Just because I'm Black doesn't mean there's not room for me to do better too. There's room for all of us to do better with understanding each other and making space for each other and really pouring into people, including younger people or people more junior than us, to help them be able to move through these spaces in ways different than we had to. I don't want anybody as stressed as I was when I was pursuing my education. It was stressful. My education it was stressful. I don't want anybody to have a job like I did, where I know some things happen that were not good and were not right, just because I was Black and young. I'm 100% clear that's what happened. I don't want anybody to go through that.
Speaker 1:But I think the thing is is a lot of us have a lot of knowledge and it won't help anybody if it just stays in our head. Us have a lot of knowledge and it won't help anybody if it just stays in our head. So you know there's a lot of space for mentorship and sponsorship, but also just for taking the effort to understand people better and and being willing to be uncomfortable to ask yourself questions of how you could do something better or to even ask yourself did I treat this person because of this happened, or is it because they look like somebody else, or they're they're? They're at work with a face tattoo, a neck tattoo, yeah, whatever's. You know that. You know they have a hairstyle I'm not used to. You need to be able to ask yourself questions and give yourself honest answers and then ask yourself how can you do better the next time?