#217 Steve Tan - How to Create, Multiply & Preserve Wealth

Can you build a wealthy life without sacrificing personal fulfilment?

Is wealth more than just financial abundance?

Today, we’re sitting down with Steve Tan, serial entrepreneur, renowned dropshipper and full-stack digital marketer with over 14 years of extensive background in the eCommerce industry.

Steve, along with Luke Belmar, co-founded Capital Club - a community that gives you front seat access to the world's top experts in business, entrepreneurship, career development, and biohacking.

We dissect the meaning of true wealth, materialism, and the rigorous demands of entrepreneurial life. Steve shares the challenges he faced starting from zero, the cultural impacts on business practices, and his personal growth experiences.

Steve also shares insights on the importance of the environment you’re in, the influence of government policies on business, and the power of having a unique perspective towards success and wealth

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Connect with Steven Tan
Instagram: @heystevetan


My Socials:
Instagram: Darrenlee.ks
LinkedIn: Darren Lee
Twitter: Darren_ks

(00:00) Preview and Intro 
(00:36) Steve Tan’s Definition of Wealth
(04:19) How To Find Purpose Beyond Money
(07:06) Why Ego is Your Biggest Enemy
(12:20) The Reality of Taxation and Government Control
(16:11) How To Go From 0 to 1
(18:38) What Makes China A Global Superpower?
(24:25) The Importance of Good Work Ethic 
(26:01) Does Money Solve All Problems?
(30:22) Dealing with Hate
(33:47) Lessons from a Failed Crowdfunding Campaign
(37:22) Steve Tan’s Biggest Regrets?
(39:50) Biggest Opportunities in Crypto
(42:55) Steve's Entrepreneurial Journey
(48:39) Comparisons: Good or Bad?
(53:05) Religion, Enlightenment and Materialism
(56:02) Building Capital Club and Meeting Luke Belmar
(01:05:41) The Impact of Time and Leveraging Past Relationships
(01:09:45) How Much has Steve Tan Made So Far?
(01:17:39) The Benefits of Having Freedom of Location
(01:23:37) Authenticity over Flaunting Wealth 
(01:29:13) Why Do People Chase Validation?
(01:34:35) Why Time is Money

Transcript

Steve Tan: 0:00

The fleshier you are, you attract, the more the brokies.

Darren: 0:03

People just need that competitiveness, and then we can have a new standard.

Steve Tan: 0:07

If you want to guide aspiring entrepreneurs to become someone, it's a zero to one. Zero to one is the hardest. At the end of the day, no matter how rich you are, you should always diversify your assets, your business and everything. My definition of success is like the road to success is always under construction. Fundamentally, I think discipline is the highest level of self-love To push yourself closer to, not be able to be distracted by like short-term gains.

Darren: 0:33

Before we start this week's episode, I have one little favor to ask you. Can you please leave a five-star rating below, so we can help more people every single week. Thank you All. Right, man, let's kick off. Where I want to start is I want to get your definition of wealth. Someone that's gone through the process, you've done multiple things. What's wealth to you now?

Steve Tan: 0:53

Wealth. I think it's abundance right, the abundance of the mind, the abundance of money, the freedom of location, the freedom of time, the freedom to be wherever you want. I think abundance has a lot of meanings to a lot of different people, right, for me, that's kind of like my, my personal own set of kind of definition the ability to choose whatever you want to do and live freely from everything that you choose to yeah, how does that come about for you, though, because you've been at the game for quite some time?

Darren: 1:24

right, you put in the hard yards. What was the early stages of like that grind like for you? Was it just focused on financial?

Steve Tan: 1:32

I mean definitely the early stage, right, when you have no money, money is definitely the only focus, right? So if people talk about holistic, being holistic in the wealth, um, your financial, your mind, your body it's kind of hard because initially you don't have so much time to focus on some of the other areas, because one specific area might be more important, like finance, right. So I was kind of looking back the other day when I started in 2004, 2005. I was barely born. Yeah, that was like. My goal was to make $100,000 a year.

Darren: 2:12

That was actually my initial goal too.

Steve Tan: 2:14

Yeah, like I was like I'll be really happy if I made $10,000 a month, Right. But the funny thing is, if you look back right now, if I'm making 100K a year right now, I'll be probably crying, right, because you probably couldn't even finance my lifestyle, right. So I think the journey is like you definitely have to focus a lot, you need to have the desire to make money and the important thing is like why do you want to make that money? For me it's very clear, because my purpose of making money is because I want to take care of my family. Right, I don't take care of my mom, I'll be able to take care of my brothers, right. So all these different things make like that's my purpose at the point of time. So when I made money, yeah, it's uh, it's kind of like that's the drive that you need.

Steve Tan: 2:57

But a lot of people they want to make money, but they have to. They have the wrong reasons, right. A lot. Oh, because I want to buy a Lambo, I want to buy a nice house. Those are not great reasons. Those are materialistic wants, right. When you get there and you have it, it doesn't mean, like some people realize that they've wanted this car so much. But after they owned it for a period of time, it's like oh, it's just like that, it's not like that special anymore. So time it's like, oh, it's just like that, it's not like that special anymore. So that that goes to show that that is not what you truly want or that person truly wants. So I bought a, I bought two lumbos, right. So initially, like when I started buying all the stuff, I feel great, right, good for branding, good for all that. But eventually I barely drove those cars like my aventador. I left it there like, uh, like, 30 days in a garage.

Steve Tan: 3:43

I don't drive it right in Singapore I drive it and I get caught by the traffic police for my exhaust and all that stuff and the tax, right, so it's, it's just a lot of hassle, right, you have to find places. Singapore is not like US. You can just park your cars anywhere in the surface, parking right Singapore like. Parking right singapore, like. Especially, you drive like, uh, like a ventador, like. You have to really find spots. You can't just go into any random car parts because how low it is. So it's a hassle, right, it's like. Eventually I opted for electric car, tesla, which is really nice, yeah, nice man.

Darren: 4:19

Yeah, talk me through that phase of like going through the money phase, because what I'm seeing on like Twitter I don't really use Twitter for this particular reason is the fact that a lot of guys I made the first 10 K and then blow it on a Rolex and up at zero. Yeah Well, I can add a similar enough uh driver as you, which was I just want to be able to take care of the people around me, take care of my parents, make sure that our houses I paid for, make sure that I don't know they just, they just live their retirement in a good way, and it's never been about the things for me. Now, when I've had more money, I've almost wanted to spend more money on stuff. Right, but how did you go through that phase of like the event or the Lambos? And then get to the internal reason as to why I'm doing this?

Steve Tan: 5:01

Basically, I think it's normal, right. It's very normal, right. Everybody has their journey, right. So my journey was because I came from a single parent family, right. So when you came from a single parent family, usually your values are shaped by your upbringing, by your parents, right? Your upbringing by your friends and all these different important people in your life, right. So the reason why I bought that, I eventually realized, is because I'm trying to fulfill my internal need, which is attention, and because I thought when you want attention, it's probably because you lack of that. When you're upbringing, my parents are busy, not a lot of attention. So when I grow up, I feel like I needed attention. Right, I needed the fame, I needed attention.

Steve Tan: 5:51

But when you, when you start going deeper into your personal life, and when you start doing more personal development, understanding yourself, I think it's the understanding of self that made me break through from all these different things.

Steve Tan: 6:02

Right, I still love cars, like I don't mind a fleet of 10 cars Right, but is that something that I really need or really want? No, right, I think there's more impactful things that I can do with my money, or to change the world in some meaningful ways, or whichever. I think that the phase. Is this right, when you don't have money? Like you definitely have to put all your efforts into making money, right money like you definitely have to put all your efforts into making money right. So the one of the biggest things I tell capital club members is like, don't delay gratification, because most of the time when you buy those stuff it's a depreciating asset. Right, you don't make money from that, right, especially like us people or like, um, a lot of like young guys no offense here but like they love to like back out their watches, like eyes and all that. What's your thoughts?

Darren: 6:50

on that.

Steve Tan: 6:50

I mean, if they have the money, it's fine, right? I mean, if they have more money than like if they're, if they have like 40K and they spend 40K on a watch, that's pretty stupid in my opinion, right? If you have 4 million in the bank buying a 40K watch, yeah sure, no problem.

Darren: 7:04

How much people get to 4 million though.

Steve Tan: 7:06

Yeah. So the thing here is like, a lot of people, when they have a little bit taste of success, they start getting in their head right. They start, oh, full of themselves. But it's a process, right. Everyone has a journey to grow, and a lot of people that become too proud or too puff up ego, they will eventually be recalibrated by the universe. That is when they got humbled by incidents because their ego was way too high, right, and in some way, shape or form, it will be recalibrated. It's how the universe works.

Darren: 7:39

Yeah, tell me true. When that happened to you, for me.

Steve Tan: 7:43

I think it was probably the time I met some of my really good friends, like um. So one of my good friends, when I first met him, he said like the first time I saw you online I didn't like you already, but we eventually became really good friends because I'm not that, I'm not that way on my online persona and who I am as a person. Right, the online persona is to attract branding. Right is to use my way of branding, is to use the most efficient route of branding right. And what's what's that? Showing my screenshots, showing my stores, showing my cars, my lifestyle. Those are the easiest, most efficient way of getting eyeballs.

Steve Tan: 8:23

But at the same time, it's a double-edged sword. You attract haters, right? You attract haters. Oh, this guy like in singapore, it's kind of like small country, right? So a lot of people would think like, oh, this guy probably came from a born with a golden spoon. Most, most of the times when people see me with maybe some of my ex-girlfriends, they'll say, oh, this guy is probably like from a rich family, one with a golden spoon. They don't know what you have been through to get to there, right?

Steve Tan: 8:47

But yet, at the same time, you, if you do a lot of like. Especially if you do education, people would think like you're a scammer, like you're whichever. But I would like to challenge that, because education system is the same thing. It's a scam. 100 right, but you can't. Do you blame the system? Or do you blame the teacher? Or do you blame the student? Right? So even in a university class or any, any, any, any schools, the same teacher teaches the same thing, but there's always the top student and the worst student. So do you blame the? Does the the worst student, blame the teacher? Or blame this, the system, right? But people that are performing are usually the people that didn't complain, but it's always usually the middle lower by the normies or the brokies or whichever, whatever you guys want to call it.

Steve Tan: 9:35

But there's no shame in that. But the point is like you have to identify where you are and the fact is like if you don't identify and know where you are in life, you can't break through it. And the fact is like if you don't identify and know where you are in life, you can't break through it. And if you don't come to understand and humble yourself that if you're at a state of like, okay, I'm broke now, okay, it's fine, there's no shame in being broke. Everybody comes from somewhere, unless you really come from a gold, born with a golden spoon. Yeah, that's different. I don't know how that feels because I'm not born and raised good right. So if the early you get to realization that this is where I am right now and the early you start becoming who you want to become, embracing the habits, the routines, the values of who you want to become, and get to that realization, that's when life will start to change. Because a lot of people say even they are a brokie, they don't want to admit that.

Darren: 10:26

Right, that's the problem, it's ego's enemy.

Steve Tan: 10:28

Yes, Ego is the biggest issue for all humans, right? No matter which stage you are right, if you have too high an ego, something's going to happen. I have a high ego as well. In the past like not going to lie right. And the past like not going to lie Right, and of course, it's all the journey. But I'm very fortunate that I have a bunch of really good friends who are all very deep into personal development, spiritually, mindset, values, habits and all these different things and which is why you're the average of the five people that you hang out most with. And I'm very grateful that all my best friends are all really highly motivated, successful individuals and they have impacted me in a really good way. And I'm very grateful that all my best friends are all really highly motivated, successful individuals and they have impacted me in a really good way.

Darren: 11:08

Yeah, it's very interesting to examine my mind's firing different directions, because you think that wealthy people you know the misconception is wealthy people are egotistical, but it's the opposite. They've gone through it, they've gone through everything and now they're being settled and they're deep down with it. That's why hate doesn't come from above, it comes from below, right. It's people that are insecure with themselves and they don't sit with that and, to be honest, as a kid that was me Like I was egotistical, I had a chip on my shoulder, I didn't recognize where I was at and then it was only the exposure I've had from my podcast for four years, where people like yourself, luke, justin Waller, many different people that were just the most ordinary people I could have possibly imagined and it was sitting down like this in the back room for an hour or two hours made me realize that the more work you do, the bigger you get.

Darren: 11:55

The better you get, the more normal you become. It's actually like a, it's counterintuitive to what the narrative is, and the narrative in the west is like you know, fuck the rich, tax the rich, fuck them. It's uh, we should like.

Steve Tan: 12:08

Protect the people that are struggling, right it's so sad, though, like well, I saw. I saw a post like yesterday the other day before that canada oh, I saw it's acting 66.7. Why would?

Darren: 12:20

you be there. Why the fuck when I posted?

Steve Tan: 12:23

that many people messaged me. Bro, that's not the worst in europe, probably 70 percent france or whichever all this. So the reason why the government needs to tax so much is because they are probably bad at money management.

Darren: 12:35

Right, they're supporting a lot of useless people, to say yeah, so when airloom went broke right, airloom went broke because of bailout in 2008 um, they blamed it on a handful of people, okay, and then they increased the tax to I think it's like 52 percent and they did a high, high income sorry, a high income tax too, which was like a further 40 percent, right, yeah, so even my like brother, who's quite like wealthy ish, his capital gains is like tax, like I think it's taxed like 60 man, honestly that's my last thing up for singapore zero gains, zero, right, but I mean it's, it's.

Steve Tan: 13:13

It's really ridiculous to me, right, why you'd play the game like why would you create a business whereby the government literally does nothing for you and they own 50 to 70 percent of what you made? It's like what the fuck? Right? Like they say, the slavery is abolished, but technically, some of the deals that I get into I don't even have 50 percent right. As an angel investor, maybe I get 20 to 40 percent right and the government wants 50 to 70% of what you make. That to me, in interpretation, is daylight robbery. It's better than robbery Because everybody, all of you, in a way it's like a mafia, right, like it or not. I think it's the world mafia.

Steve Tan: 14:04

Taxation, right, of course, reasonable tax, I understand, because you're staying, you're contributing to economy. Like singapore is great. 18 percent is 17 percent, 17, yes. Corporate tax no, no tax on dividends, no tax on capital gains it's great. Very. I think singapore has one of the best tax systems in the world, which is why it attracted a lot of investments from foreign companies and everything, which is why it's one of the best and most expensive cities right now, unfortunately, right. So I think, in a way, business owners or individuals needs to be smart, right, because if you, if you have the capability of makes making so much money and you don't know how to preserve your money, it's as good as giving away money for free to the government who does nothing to support you. Yeah, maybe they give you like you have to like. I don't see why is this fair, unless the government is like giving you free, free housing, free, everything, like in some countries like singapore.

Darren: 15:01

No, no, no chance no, but you work though. Right, you work get. They give you the roles so that you can pay for the company Singapore is.

Steve Tan: 15:07

Singapore is great, like I mean, I'm born and raised in Singapore, I'm always loyal to Singapore, but the reason why I chose to live in Singapore is because I felt it's a system that I don't really enjoy. Being anymore is great, but it's getting to the point whereby it's like a self-control metrics in some ways very well built system, but which is why a lot of western people they don't really like singapore as much as it's super clean, super safe and everything like. You're sort of like being surveillance everywhere, right, that that of course the surveillance helps mitigate crimes and all it's. It can't be perfect. You know there's no perfect system everywhere. So I think the best way kind of like to do that is just kind of like choose where you like to be right, wherever, wherever, whatever culture you like to be in and wherever your money has the biggest leverage yeah, let's walk through some of the building blocks.

Darren: 16:11

So a couple of couple of clubs like ideas is you're helping people go zero to one, right? Why do you think a lot of guys struggle to go zero to one?

Steve Tan: 16:21

the biggest problem I see from people zero to one, it's only two things bad mindset, no, no execution. Right, they only, they are usually talkers and don't take action. Go to an event. Go to like uh, maybe a tony robbins event or whatsoever. Be hyped up for like three, four days, yes, yes, yes. Fourth day finish event. Fifth day go back to work right because?

Steve Tan: 16:50

because when you're at the environment of a, of a like-minded community or an event, everybody's very hyped up, right, you're surrounded by good energy, good motivation. But when you go back to work, you're dealing to work, you're dealing with your boss, you're dealing with your colleagues. Your colleagues are most likely bots in some way shape or form, right? Oh, let's go catch some beer after work, let's do this, let's go party, and all that. How do you think you can break free? It's hard, right, because if you're always surrounded by all these people, it's hard because they are really conformed to a certain mindset and a lifestyle that they want. To be Zero to one is not exactly really hard, to be honest, right, if I was to start from zero, like, I don't think it's going to take me long for me to make my first million dollars because of their experience and everything. Because I know for a fact that, at the minimum, if you're not even a hustler, right, a lot of people talk about all like, they shit on Gary V's like hustle mindset on everything. But of course you can't be working like this 24-7, right? But in the initial phase, the initial phase of the kickoff of the ramp up, is very critical, of course, right, like, and I was.

Steve Tan: 18:06

It really shifted my mindset, because I was in china for a bit. For a bit of time I was doing my, some of my startups, which failed. Um then what were they? Uh, I did a groupon clone in china. No way, yeah. So I was probably the second or third um groupon clone and eventually it was like 15 000 competitors in china. That's how cutthroat business are in China. Where, what city? I was in Shanghai, yeah, but 15,000 in the whole country of China, right, so that made me like. The ruthlessness and the execution speed of Chinese people is beyond me.

Steve Tan: 18:38

Like comparing Singapore and China no, not even close, right. There's a saying like for china no, not even close, right. There's a saying like for, for, like, suppliers that I meet, right, there's usually uh five, uh five, singapore, uh five asians, the hong kong, the hong kong people, the taiwan, the malaysians and the singapore's. If you say you're from singapore, you probably get a high, you're gonna get the most expensive pricing from the suppliers because they think you're, you're, you're, you're, because singapore people are very trusting, singapore system is very trusting and everything right. So in trusting in china, interpretation is gullible, right, right.

Steve Tan: 19:14

So maybe like, if singaporeans 5x the price right, malaysians 4x the price, taiwanese because it's closer maybe 3x the price. Hong kong people can negotiate the fuck out of it. 2x the price. Local china people maybe. Maybe 3x the price. Hong Kong people can negotiate the fuck out of it. 2x the price. Local China people maybe 1.5x the price. So all my procurement managers and people are all from China, because even I speak Mandarin right in Singapore. Our accents are different, like to them, they see us as fat, fat sheeps or fat pigs that they can slaughter with a good price Right. So eventually you learned that all by experience.

Darren: 19:49

What has that rootlessness like taught you? Or how? How have you used our rootlessness Cause you're, I guess, when you observe people who are like lazy and fucking don't want to do the work you must think Jesus like what and what are we doing? Right, Because that culture, that conducive culture to just growing, scaling, building, that's in your blood. Right, Like you've learned that and you've had it. So you're taking that now and then you're comparing it to people that don't even want to start, right?

Steve Tan: 20:16

I have no sympathy for people who are lazy Absolutely zero. I don't like they deserve to be poor if they are lazy right, that's. I don't like they deserve to be poor if they are lazy right, that's part of life. I mean, you have to have a vision for yourself, like I think I'm not christian, but I think in the bible they call it something like without a vision. Humans perish, right, without vision or something right. So a lot of times it's not because they don't have a vision, it's because they are lost in some way, shape or form. And I believe mindset is really important and the ruthlessness that I told you about is like you know Groupon model, right, you negotiate with the vendor and you try to get a very good price for your users. So I think that time we have like a Dairy Queen kind of like voucher that we negotiate a really good price is probably like $30 R and B like for for a good discount. So my competitor literally just bought everything from dairy queen and they sold it for a dollar because they're super well-funded.

Steve Tan: 21:22

That's how Chinese people do business right If they see a really good like, if they see a super well-funded. That's how chinese people do business right if they see a really good like, if they see a really good restaurant that's like fully packed every single day, maybe selling dumplings, right, xiaolongbao, whichever. There's a saying that somebody would go in, open up right beside the store with better renovation, better and maybe one-tenth of the price, because they have money they have to find. Of course, in order to do that, you have to be financially backed right In some way, shape or form, maybe from a rich family, or maybe the business is doing very well. So they will drive you out of business because obviously people are going to choose the $1 compared to the $10, right. And when they drive you out of business, they'll restore the pricing and they'll monopolize that restaurant.

Darren: 22:10

Isn't that really symbolic of life, though? Like what life really is. Like, as in the competitiveness, the rootlessness, versus, like the Western world, which is like let's all hold hands, let's give you your. What is it Universal basic income and whatnot? Let's all hold hands, let's give you your, your what is a universal basic income and whatnot? Like, when I speak to my family or friends or whatever you know, they think they're like oh, like the government will help us and everything's going to be okay. But when I see that the Chinese approach, or when I was living in Singapore, I felt that too. Like this is actually the way world, the world works, and especially if you're a guy, if you don't fucking have the skills, have the ability to build, have the network of people, have the authority and influence, you're fucked.

Steve Tan: 22:48

But you are actually fucked yeah, for sure, because, like when I was doing my startups, it's in a like, kind of like um, it's kind of like a silicon valley, like compound, like there's a lot of buildings. When I left my office at 1am, I thought I'm the last person when I walked across all the buildings. Every office is still, the lights are still on, every office and you'll see like a bunch of taxis downstairs at least 20, 30 that are waiting there because there's so many people going to go off work. After one right, the car parks are full, which means those guys are grinding their ass off. After one right, the car parks are full, which means those guys are grinding their ass off 24-7, right. That's the reason why China is able to like really build up so fast because, like any construction, maybe US takes like 10 years, china will take one year.

Darren: 23:38

Yeah, there's a story about that. So this is like 2008, 2009, when China really popped, or maybe 2000, 2000 sorry for the dates. Uh, there's this.

Darren: 23:47

There's a story of this like um new york property developer and they were getting comparisons of china and new york and they were like why the fuck does it grow so much faster in china, even though they didn't have as technically talented architects? And so they flew there and they flew there, and they flew there and when they went there they said like what's going on here? What's the difference? And they were like oh no, not much. Same panels, same results, same blueprints, same amount of workers, and so on. The difference was that, instead of working five days a week and 40 hours, they were working seven days a week and 12 hours by seven whatever that number is so, as time goes on, the time is the biggest variable in the world.

Darren: 24:25

Right? As time goes on, you just see all the growth that someone who's more relentless is going to make, right?

Steve Tan: 24:33

And that's kind of like what Elon Musk also mentioned, right, if you only work like five days a week at eight hours, versus Elon Musk will work seven days a week at maybe like 15 hours. That amount of hours translate times 10 years. That's a huge gap. That's a huge gap. Even if you're doing the same shit, you're going to have a big difference compared to your peers, right? So obviously it's not like super sustainable, like you get burnt out and everything. The reason like, for example, like people like Elon Musk right, you think he's like passionate about money. No, he has a vision. Right, his vision is so big that drives him forward to overcome all those obstacles and challenges in life. Right? So a lot of people yes, money is important. 100. No, money has a lot of problems. Yeah, when you have money doesn't mean it solves all your problems, but at least you're in a capacity to at least use money to help you resolve some problems.

Darren: 25:30

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Steve Tan: 26:01

Right money solves money problems right and all the other problems in the world still exist yeah, yeah for sure, for I think I saw an interview with, like, uh, the founder of right. Yeah, so I think he said something that, like, after he listed his company, he has like billions of dollars and everything and he probably felt very lonely at the very, very top, because the top is usually very lonely right and it's very cutthroat. I'm sure, right and a lot of people, a lot of startup founders they probably didn't go through a lot of success right. Then they have one freaking big win and suddenly they crush all their visions, all their goals and everything in life. They become lost.

Steve Tan: 26:43

One sad story is from the founder of Zappos right, uh, tony, tony share. Right, amazing guy, great culture, right, so the business for a billion dollars to Amazon and shortly after a few years he died, I think, depression or suicide or something. Right, because they started to feel empty because there's no new vision. Right and right because they start to feel empty because there's no new vision. Right and and when you're at the stage when you, when you don't build up a strong internal development for yourself, if there's no strong development of yourself, when you have so much money, you can't hold those energy, those money, you can't hold, you can't control those money and that, in turn, would potentially turn on you in some way, shape or form. So people would start maybe partying like crazy, which I did. You know I'm not proud of those days. But you know, back in 2018, 19, I was partying probably six days a week, six, seven days a week in singapore how did you feel doing?

Steve Tan: 27:39

that, um, just feel empty. You're empty, feel lonely. You just want to throw money, like, spend money, like entertain a bunch of like useless friends, right, people who just kind of like suck up to you and just want to have free drinks. Right, you just want to feel like um, you just want to feel great, right, you can give big tips.

Steve Tan: 27:59

People treat you like like a god, like a king, like oh, but internally they treat you on the surface like oh, steve is here, but probably internally like who the fuck is this guy? Right? So eventually, when you start going to a lot of all this nightlife scenes right in asia or whichever, you start to realize like it's, like it's the same story, like at the end of the day, it doesn't serve any purpose. Yeah, maybe if you go with some good friends different case you go for entertainment, bonding and whatnot, but if you're going for to chase after your own ego, that's a slippery slope to go and a lot of people would realize that after they suffer a big setback and they realize those supposedly called friends are not, are not there, you Right?

Darren: 28:44

So you'd be lucky to have three good friends in your life. Right, you know close friends that have your back. Yeah, tell me about how that must feel right, because, like you're obviously a wealthy dude, like you know you're, you're even extroverted, right. You're what? Extroverted in yourself, you get on really well with people. You're likable, you're relatable, you're relevant. Do you feel like that? People try to attach to you as a result, and it's not always with the right intentions.

Steve Tan: 29:10

Of course, right, so that's one of the reasons I built a Facebook group. I was probably one of the biggest Facebook e-com groups early on. Right, it's called e-commerce elites mastermind. I don't run it anymore, right, I kind of got bored. I usually get bored with it, right, and I'm blessed and grateful for that journey because, like, it made me realize how to build a community Right. Right, we went from zero to a hundred thousand plus people without any ads, all pure word of mouth, facebook pushing engagement and whatnot.

Steve Tan: 29:40

And I realized that the earlier you get to understand that other people's opinion doesn't really matter, right, you shouldn't let other people's opinions affect how you feel, because if you allow that, you're actually like a thermometer. You react to what happens, but when you are a thermostat, you define and control the temperature. You are in control. Most people don't understand that actually, you can be in control of your life. You can be in control of emotions. Right, obviously, like the whole world is trying to like, there's a lot of people like. Right, sometimes you get a bad grab driver, for example, someone like I was like okay, great, nevermind.

Steve Tan: 30:22

My perspective is like sure, maybe I'll take a 15 minute walk under sun, get some sun, but I wasn't pissed. Some people would be like off, they'll start complaining, they'll start judging and everything. But naturally, like, a lot of hate and judgment actually causes more damage to you internally than you would understand. Right, people fail to understand like a lot of people hate, they hate things online, and online makes it so easy for people to hate without revealing the identity. Right, like, do all this, like um, a lot.

Steve Tan: 30:51

I'm sure you see a lot of hate, a lot of people like, and usually when that happens, it's a reflection of their inner self. Like, most people don't understand that. Right, the reason why you're hating so much is because you feel so. You hate yourself, you're, you're insecure, there's, there's traumas that you haven't cleared, there's unhappiness that, like that's blocking you from finding the truth within yourself, right, so for me, I'm grateful because I've been through a lot, right, I've been through, like, a lot of failures. Right, I've been humbled a lot of times through, like, through bad partners, bad decisions, big ego, like, um, no, due diligence. Done everything right, greediness, all these different paths makes you a better person because, like, the important thing is not about failure, is not scary. The scary part about failure is that if you don't reflect and learn from your lessons, I think that's the that's the most scary part about failures. Right, a lot of people say I failed, okay, never mind, let's move on. No, you cannot move on. You should never move on until you come to an understanding on how can you not make that same mistake in your journey again and again and again. Until you truly understand and equalize that charge within yourself and you heal, then you will cannot feel okay, great, this is never coming back. It happens with relationships. It happens with parents, upbringing, traumas, hurts, whatsoever. You have to like, reflect. So one of the things that I tell a lot of my Aura Capital Club members is like, like you have to go through what is the most painful experience that you have been through and have you cleared that or not? If you haven't, those are going to be.

Steve Tan: 32:50

It will show up in different forms. Right, it might affect how your relationship is right. So, for example, like some of like the female female friends that I have, right, the reason why some of them are not, like um, happy in the new relationships is because they are carrying a lot of baggage from the previous relationship that they haven't entirely resolved and equalized. Right, and with all good and bad things, there's always like, um, benefits and drawbacks. Right, if there's only benefits, you're infatuated. Right, if there's only that, if there's only drawbacks, then you're you're putting yourself in a pit pit hole. Right, you only see the bad. In all situations. There's always the good and the bad, right, as with all relationships, even though some people have bad relationships and they break up in a bad way. And if you reflect, there's actually a lot. And I realized that.

Steve Tan: 33:47

For, for, a big shift in my mindset was because when I was doing one of my startups in 2013 called kreos it was a indiegogo campaign, right, a lot of people say, oh, like, we raised 1.5 million in 2013, is probably one of the top projects ever on crowdfunding campaigns but I had a really bad partner because I I don't really know how to do due diligence and I was kind of like just blindly trusting this person right, he's my, he's my manufacturing partner but turns out to be a scam.

Steve Tan: 34:16

Right, doesn't have operations, doesn't have anything. And that was my part as a CEO. I didn't do sufficient due diligence, so we delivered a shitty product, right. So people call me like oh, this guy took so all the news, which is why that part made me realize that you can't trust the media, because media doesn't matter which news outlet out there anywhere in the world, all they want is eyeballs. So the hooks is what drives attention. So they wrote something like oh, this Asian Singaporean dude from Singapore took the $1.5 million and went on a shopping spree, bought his Ferrari, and those pictures were taken in 2009. But they just took it up and just like posted there and it's like oh, like Steve, I was like dude, as an entrepreneur, like most normies or brokies, don't understand that actually, 1.5 million is not a lot of money, 100% Right, especially in 2013.

Darren: 35:14

It's like seed capital yeah.

Steve Tan: 35:15

But for normal people, 1.5 is a lot of money. But for me, if I want to do a business, I only do 1.5 million. I might as well don't start a business right. I can probably get a good job that pays me maybe 200, 300k a year. I don't have to work so hard. Why do I want to start a business, get all the risk right To make 1.5 million? But most people don't understand that. Most people only see, oh, like, yeah, sure, we delivered a pretty shitty product right, but at least we fulfill the end of the spectrum. We did deliver a product right. That's the maximum that we can do Because unfortunately, we ran out of funds.

Steve Tan: 35:48

My partner siphoned money, all of the company and everything. But it's part of the journey. So I was having a big brudge with this guy, my ex-partner, a big trauma, like so when I was undergoing personal development, my coach told me like I walk me through your journey right, kind of like where we're talking. So when I was talking about this guy's like oh, 2013, my first thing is like, fuck this guy. Like this guy's a big motherfucker, scamming bastard. There's a lot of hateful words coming out right. So she said so what, what? Uh? What's the benefit of this lesson like the hell are you talking about?

Darren: 36:22

no fucking benefit?

Steve Tan: 36:23

yeah, like I was. I was a little bit offended when she said that. I was like what are you talking about? Like, what do you mean that's a benefit from this? Did you not learn anything? So, upon her asking more and more questions, I was like, yeah, I think my bullshit filter definitely went higher. Right, I was able to detect bullshit. Now, I wasn't so easily trusting, right. It's not about I don't trust people. It's more that I do my proper due diligence to decide whether I want to trust or don't trust this person. But when, like, but because of that journey and the lesson, I was able to kind of understand what I've gained and what I've lost. And usually it's always a fair exchange. Everything is a fair exchange, right? So when the earlier you see that and you equalize that charge, you feel good. Now I feel like, yeah, it's a blessing. In disguise, I'm grateful for him, right, because that lesson served its purpose for me, right?

Darren: 37:22

so, yeah, that's amazing man that's so powerful. Do you look back on anything like that and regret anything that's happened?

Steve Tan: 37:29

regret is for people that didn't solve their problems. They're living in the past, right, and they don't live in the present, right. So last time I would feel like, oh shit, I should have sold all my crypto at the top, right, I shouldn't have sold my crypto at the bottom, right, I have so much ETH, so much ETH during the first cycle, right. But because I lack conviction and because I was partying like crazy, right, I wasn't like because money came too easy. It came, it was. You made so much money.

Steve Tan: 38:03

Until the point I was like, fuck, fuck, e-com. Like, why should I be doing e-com? It's a waste of time. Like put in 10K, become like what 2, 3 million. Put in 100K, become 10 million. Like, why do you want to even work, right that? Do you want to even work, right that? That? So that is a.

Steve Tan: 38:19

So the, the crypto is also a journey for us. So previously I was like, oh shit, like I shouldn't have sold all my eve, I should have held it all. Till now I was like, no, that's a lesson for you to learn on. How could you make better decisions, right? So in the past, I would envy some of my friends who were like, oh, they made a few hundred million from crypto bull runs, I was like, shit, shit, I actually should have that right. So when I start talking to some of my friends, I understand that doesn't come by luck, the reason why they could have made a few hundred million. Of course, luck plays a little part, but it's also because they study so deep, they understand the narrative of crypto and they're super convicted. When I was selling all my Bitcoin at maybe four or 5k, my friend was mortgaging his house and going all in at four or five K during the bear market. Right, that's because he has full conviction on what Bitcoin would be in the next 10, 20, 30 years.

Steve Tan: 39:15

I didn't have I'm more like a retail investor ICOs and everything. I was like, okay, pump and dump, that's it. Right, I don't have. I'm more like a retail investor ICOs and everything. I was like, okay, pump and dump, that's it. I don't have the knowledge. So when I start understanding all these things, you will understand. You don't need to live in regrets. You need to understand what caused you to make that decision and understand those lessons. And when you integrate those lessons into your life, you wouldn't have those regrets because you feel like, okay, I'm a new person when I meet, when I meet, my next opportunity. That's how I'm gonna approach this opportunity not gonna get burned twice, right?

Darren: 39:50

yeah? Yeah, that's that's making history not repeat itself, right? Yes, and that's what's happening over and over again relationships, money, business, and I've even observed it myself, man, we've had clients that were just toxic and then we've had new clients that were equally as toxic and I thought, wait, I thought I solved this problem, but I didn't. Internally, it was that initial internal work that has to be done and that could always stem back from years and years and years. You mentioned multiplication, multiplication and crypto. Where, do you see, is like the biggest opportunity right now in multiplication?

Steve Tan: 40:24

I think crypto is definitely great. Um, I think crypto is one of the probably more popular and easier ways to multiply your money. Of course, with high high, with high returns, usually comes with high risk, right. So for me, it's like majority of my portfolio aren't in really stable like Bitcoin, ethereum, right, same, I'll just lock it away. I don't even see them, right, I've locked them away from since the second cycle. I don't even have my, like, my password for risk code. It's all locked somewhere else in the banks or whichever, right, and that's for my next generation. I'm not planning to spend those money, right, interesting, it's kind of like safe there and sound. It's just, it's just continually appreciating and in value, right. So I think the the multiplication of money has a few parts, right, it's harder. You invest in like stocks, bonds, once a little bit slower, like you know, but safe, safe, right, it's like five, seven percent per year, but, like, if you want higher returns, I think what 30, 50 percent? Yeah, then, definitely at least not the traditional, the traditional ways.

Darren: 41:31

It's not going to get you there for sure well, that goes back to like a traditional employee, right, the employee is told to put their money in a pension fund or a savings fund and that will be invested in like a low yield, right. So sad and that's, but that's a narrative, okay, and those pension funds which you can't take your money out from, bear in mind. So from my stint, you'll actually find this funny. From my early stint in the fintech world, I left that and I was like oh, fuck this. And I was like wait, where was that money that I was investing into?

Steve Tan: 41:59

I contacted the pension fund get out right. No, no guess when I can take it out yeah, guess what?

Darren: 42:03

sorry, guess when I can take it out when you're 70 years old 65 right much the same as singapore exact same process, right, but it's it's a narrative. So, uh, rough roads and smooth, smooth roads and rough right, and when you take that like smooth path in the beginning and make it all safe and whatnot and go down a traditional path, that's given to you. But you need to open yourself to more opportunity. And I think most guys you know they're teaching you how to make 10k a month, but they're not teaching you effectively how to multiply your wealth. And that's what I love, what you've been kind of doing, because for you you've been doing it for so many years, right since 2004, like you've been able to take those principles and multiply continuously. Yeah, true, how have you been able to almost reinvent yourself to do that continuously? Because it's been from ecom to sass, to multiple different brands and then into, like, what's the principle you're applying I think it's also because the of the journey I failed a lot.

Steve Tan: 42:55

Right 2006 I started, um, I started my entrepreneurship 2004. 2006. I was still like in army, studying, like I was doing a lot of. I was a gaming addict, gaming addict right.

Darren: 43:07

What was your game of choice?

Steve Tan: 43:08

you probably wouldn't like uh, it's kind of like uh it's. It's a korean game like mmorpg like me and my brother would. We would rotate 24 hours to play to become the best server player Right, and it's part of the competitiveness. So, but that? But my mom made me realize why do you want to be the best player in the virtual world and not in the real world? That was when I had that epiphany to that. I want to be a useful person, at least in the real world, right. That was when I started my personal development and everything Like I started in the real world. Right. That was when I started my personal development and everything Like I started doing, to my first course, buying courses online.

Steve Tan: 43:44

Naturally, making money online is a natural transition for people like me. No money, no education, high school student right. Where can you make money? Nothing else. Make money online, right. Not a lot of investment required. But also because of the journey that I've failed so much right that I realized that I don't want to put all my eggs in one basket anymore, right. So in 2000, like 2013, after the watch project, I went on to do another like uh, wearable, like kind of like uh, like a wearables kind of project as well you were early back then, yeah 2015.

Steve Tan: 44:19

I'm doing like a tracker, like a kind of like a whoop in some project as well. You were early back then. Yeah, 2015, I'm doing like a tracker, like a kind of like a whoop in some way shape or form, but it's more like a lost and found tracker, like you can put it in your back. It'll be like the Apple tag right In 2015,. I was really doing that. Apple is not even doing that. So there's a competitor called towel, whichever from their crowdfunding campaign. So I was really inspired and I went on that.

Steve Tan: 44:39

After I failed that previous startup, so after that, the new start also fail. I was. I was smashed. I was smashed, depressed and everything. And because I went all in, I was I went bankrupt after that business. So I took a. Probably I was depressed for six months, yeah, six months.

Steve Tan: 44:56

I moved back to. I went from China, moved back to Singapore. I was like the only thing I told myself was like fuck, maybe I'm not cut out to be an entrepreneur. That's the devil voice talking to you Like, oh, you're shit. You know you're a loser. You can make it. So I still have that picture of me to remind myself where I was, what state I was at.

Steve Tan: 45:13

So I moved a small ass, like house not even a house a small ass. One better room, one room with your bed, your washing machine, your kitchen, your bath everything all in one room, probably like this size, like half of this size. I was there for six months. I was drinking every day, I was watching Netflix every day. I was just like beating myself up until one of my friends said, like, hey, like, so I got into Forex during that because I want to make money quick, right. So I thought, okay, I can make money quick, like, because I lost millions.

Steve Tan: 45:45

Right, and losing millions and going down to zero is a very painful experience, right. And when you have all your eggs in one basket, when that fails, all is gone. All your hard work is gone, right, how did I is gone, right. How did I feel? How did I feel you're in that moment? Of course, it's bad, like, really bad. Like, uh, you know, like, when you close your companies, you have to fire all the employees, right. That's a sucky feeling to feel, especially if those people go through like hell with you over time, late nights. You know your employees, you have to take care of them, but when you lose everything, you're in no position to help them because you can't even help yourself.

Steve Tan: 46:20

So I still remember I was so poor I can't even pay the parking fee. I have to secretly sneak out my car in China because I was so poor I can't even pay the monthly fee and I've sneaked out at 4 or 5 am so like the parking attendant wasn't there so I don't have to pay him, and they started calling me you know I don't take off calls. It was like it was a shitty experience, like yeah, so when I moved back to Singapore it was even worse. Like the landlord despised me, like you're a fucking brokey, like he doesn't treat you with respect, right, gives you problems and all that stuff. So it made it worse.

Steve Tan: 46:57

So I would totally understand people who are in this bad cycle, but it really takes a strong mind to understand. It didn't take me six months probably like more, like four months to, like you know, get myself out of that shithole. It's not a short time, but sometimes you just need time to rest, think and rejuvenate. So one of my friends told me like Steve, why do you want it? What do you want to do forex? I was like I want to make money fast, he said but it might probably take you 10 years to become really good at it. And 10 years might not mean 10 years might not equal to 100 good, right, so there's a risk factor that you might be shit, because not everyone is built out to be a trader. Right? He said, why not you go back and-comm, which is what you're good at? Like, oh, that makes sense. That shift, that epiphany actually made me realize like oh wow, I have a skill set. I wouldn't die 100%. And I terminated my lease the next day, packed my bags and flew back to China.

Darren: 48:04

Fuck man, I love that.

Steve Tan: 48:06

Yeah.

Darren: 48:06

Because the thing is, with your skills, you could put you anywhere. You could put you in the middle of a desert, right, and you have the skills. Give you a laptop and a power bank, right, yeah, and how I describe it is if, if, like, if, like. Skills are like a circle, right, and what you want is in the middle. If ecom is your thing, you're going there. You're getting there, you're pushing up against it. Yes, you'll get battered. But if you want to go and do something else, like forex, you got to come back to the outside of the circle, yeah, and restart, right, but you always had that initial skill. That's why I think, like, a lot of guys will niche, hop and jump ship too quickly before the good happens.

Steve Tan: 48:39

That's what happened to me as well because, like initially in 2008, I was probably making about 100 000 a month net profit. Like that was like just me and probably two, three staffs like one customer support, one like packaging lady in my apartment we can do like make 100 000 net. But at the time I was a lot of ego. I was like, oh man, 20 plus years old, like I feel like I'm the shit you know you walk with a little bit of wind right. Like you feel like you're the God. So when I went to US I went to the first ever traffic and conversion by Ryan Dice. When I went there it was a small like I was a VIP. I flew like what? 20 hours transit and everything get to texas and I met a lot of people. There was like, oh man, like there's a lot of like like people that's young and making money. That.

Steve Tan: 49:27

That was a time where I was like fuck, I'm like, uh, I'm like a, a normie in a in a in an isolated place that I don't know how big the world is. I was like shit, there's people making like two, three hundred k a month, like 500k a month. A is I was like shit. There's people making like two, three hundred k a month, like 500k a month, a million, I was like shit, like, like, when you have the comparison. But for me it's like I'm a competitive guy. I wouldn't see the comparisons as like intimidation. Tea for joy, yeah, I I'll see. Like, oh man, like to beat this guy, right, that's kind of like how I view things.

Steve Tan: 50:01

But a lot of humans, a lot of people, unfortunately, a lot of normal people, right, a lot of them they will see it as intimidation. They will see it as envy, greed, like you know, hate, right, but they don't realize that if you only envy and you don't take action, you would never be there. So when, when, when you see those people like a lot, and especially now with social media, it's so sad because, like, there's so many impersonation, it's so easy to fake it online, right, rent a few cars or do a few champagnes. So you cannot, you can't easily portray yourself. I mean, like in some countries I know people provide those services to fake jets.

Steve Tan: 50:48

Yeah, they provide all that shit, right, so, like, but it's, it is what it is, right, people get attracted to all this like fleshy stuff. But like, eventually I realized that the flashier you are, you attract, the more the brokies, right? People that kind of like envy you. Oh, I want to be that because they have no money, right? But when most people become richer and if they don't develop their mind, I'm not super, ultra rich, I'm not in the ultra high net worth category yet Be of a wealthy mind?

Steve Tan: 51:20

Yeah, but for me it's like when I know if, when I get to that stage, I'm going to be fulfilled, I'm going to be happy because, like, money is not like my sole focus in my life, it's not my top value, it used to be my top value, but value priorities would change across timeframe. Right, the lessons that you go through, the experiences, the journey that you go through will shape different kind of values and different like. It will shape your lens towards the worldview, of how you view the world.

Darren: 51:53

You seem fulfilled, as it is right that everything else is like bonus points. You know it's like it's just because you enjoy the game.

Steve Tan: 52:00

Yeah you like playing the infinite game.

Darren: 52:03

I always hope with the infinite game. My podcast is the fact that I want to be doing this forever. I want to be building, investing in the next youth coming true. That's what I want to do for my, for my career as time goes on. But when you look at those people that have smashed it right, yes, this comparison, comparisons of T for joy, that pulls you down with a lot of people, but for me it shows what's possible. It's at the four minute mile, right, the four minute mile wasn't broken and then for like 50 years or forever, and then when it was broken, four people did it afterwards in the next month. It shows you what's possible and we actually started running.

Darren: 52:34

You'll find this quite interesting internal challenges in our company, like performance metrics. So we didn't do it at all and I noticed the numbers were down in February, not even to do with revenue, this is just internal metrics for, like social media. And I said, why don't we just introduce something? That's kind of fun, it's kind of competitive, and the next month we had like four of it being break and the next month that we had almost like 10. So it's like people just need that competitiveness and then we can. We can have a new standard, a new barrier, right, uh, but most people aren't willing to set that bar for themselves and then be able to do it for other people. Goes back to the internal dialogue. Yeah, it's crazy how much like this game isn't the inner game, right?

Steve Tan: 53:13

yes, it is, it's crazy though I think, like, at the end of the day, like I see things a little bit different, like I'm a free thinker so I'm not like stuck with like Buddhism or any religion or whichever. Of course my family is Buddhism so I'm kind of exposed to that, but I'm cool with all religion. Like I could go to churches with my friends. I feel it's great, right. Like, at the end of the day, I feel religion is just an interpretation of a different culture. The Western people have their own mindset, the Muslim people have their own, the Chinese have the Taoism, the Buddhism or the India, it doesn't matter. All religion, fundamentally at core, is good. It's to guide humans to be a better person. That's it Buddhism you want to attain is to kind of like guide humans to be a better person, to be a better person, right to I mean like buddhism they. You want to attain enlightenment, right, and what's enlightened?

Steve Tan: 54:05

Enlightenment is like being like to break through from all the materialistic things in in bold right, because you're born with nothing, you end with nothing as well, right, so the earlier you get to know that like. So for me it's like sometimes I feel like, do I really need a private jet? Well, it's good to have, but I'll buy it. But is it like, do I really need it? Probably not, right? I'll probably buy it for the sake of just buying it and just like having the experience, all right, but sell it, right.

Steve Tan: 54:32

So I've sold everything. I sold pretty much all my stuff, my cars, um, everything in singapore I sold because I moved out of Singapore, right, and I realized, like, like, being minimalist has its perks, right, and the less attached that you are to all these things, whenever I see like, oh, this guy, yeah, it's nice, cool, good stuff, yeah, if you've been there and done that and you understand that those things are here because you choose to buy them, are here because you choose to buy them. But a lot of people allow those materialistic things to lead them to kind of like, oh, that's the thing I want to buy and everything I mean.

Steve Tan: 55:06

I was there, so kind of like I know what kind of went on, but not saying that I don't like. It's just that. Hey, like, can I do something else with my money? Can I put it in a fund? Can I put it in some investments? That gives me better returns, right? So the time when I bought all this thing is because I want to be flashy, right, super flashy. The ways I, the way I dress, my shoes are christian louboutin and all that it's like. Now I see those shoes, I was like what the fuck would I even wear that? Like, god damn, you rocked in with shorts today. Yeah, like I was. Like I was like my friend went to my house yesterday. He's like dude, you have so many shoes, like, I have probably like a hundred over shoes, right, and I only wear two of them right now. The rest is just for display, like. So. So it's a journey, right. You start understanding. You start understanding like Just do whatever you want. For me, it's more like just chill Now. It's more like chill, being happy, being fulfilled, being focused.

Steve Tan: 56:02

Capital Club is honestly one of the hardest projects that I've built, honestly speaking. Why? Because you're dealing with a lot of people, right. You deal with a community, right. And if you want to guide aspiring entrepreneurs to become someone, it's a zero to one. Zero to one is the hardest. Getting people from one to two is easier, yeah, right.

Steve Tan: 56:22

So, honestly, I would prefer to deal with people that want to because they get it right. So, for example, like uh also when we did our initial launch of capital club at 369 dollars, right, 369 is nothing, it's like a dollar a day, yeah, right, it's a dollar. I could probably spend in, like one dish, one food, one meal, one drink Right. But that's because different people at different stage would view money differently. Sure, so if someone has $500 and he's giving you $369, that's a big deal, right, and that's a big deal, right. And if they don't make it, if they're lazy or if they're desperate, if that's their last money and they expect make money fast just by joining, they would have that. They're joining with unrealistic expectations because making money is not that straightforward. Sure, it's with the right knowledge and everything, it's easier to make money, but it doesn't mean that it's easy with so many competitors.

Darren: 57:20

Simple but not easy. Right, simple but not easy. Told me true that process because you're great at spotting people. So, like when you first met luke. You first met luke bellmer to to work in copper club. What was it in luke that you saw as like an opportunity, and even the opportunity of him and his skills?

Steve Tan: 57:39

I met Luke in, I think, 2016 or 17. Like when I was kind of like still, like I was partying a lot at that time, right, I was like I brought him to Singapore, like you know, I see I sort of see my younger self in him, like in a way, like that's someone that's like really determined Right, someone that do whatever it takes to get what he needed, and he's very smart, very good speaker, like I see I definitely see the potential of him, like at time, right, I'm being able to really articulate his thoughts, his minds, being able to provide value people that need it Right, and that kind of feel like. Oh, I told him a long time ago. I said like hey, I think you could go this route. The future.

Darren: 58:25

How did you spot that?

Steve Tan: 58:27

Because of the way he's able to articulate. He's a really good. He has good showmanship, right. He's very good at connecting with people, right. So when he came to Singapore, I let him stay at my place, right. So that was kind of when I started knowing him a little bit more. So we kind of like butter-treated some services, services, right, he helped me out with, like, my social media growth. Like he's running probably a social media marketing agency at a time. So that was kind of pretty early on, all right.

Steve Tan: 58:58

When he reached out to me and I wasn't really interested, to be honest, like at a point of time I was just like, ah well, fuck this, this guy. But he was relentless. He was like he kept following up, kept following up. I kept chatting. I was like, oh, this guy's interesting, you know, like most people would just give up, but this guy, no, right. So I was like, okay, great, all right, tell me what you have. So that was kind of like when we started having our interaction and everything, I was like all right, I'll give you a scholarship to come to my mastermind, right. So like he came as a guest right to my skull and he started meeting all these millionaires, which kind of like I showed him my screenshot, I pull out my shopify app. Yeah, I made a few hundred thousand dollars a day, all right. It was like he was kind of like mind blown, like fuck, how do you guys do it? I said you should get in e-commerce, not not some bullshit social media marketing agency. So that was when he decided after the mastermind that he came.

Steve Tan: 59:53

Because everybody that came to my mastermind I have zero complaints, zero refunds, zero unhappiness with my students Because that is a very tight, small 20, 30 people that I charge $15,000, like four or five days to get together, teach them all my skills, my strategies and whatnot. Most people went there. A lot of them graduated with like super, super amazing results right, average, lower 20, 30% cost reduction multiplied two, three, five, 10 X their revenue, all these different things. Some build amazing brands and whatnot, right, I have attendees that attend like. I have people that attend my mastermind that does two, 300 million a year right now, many of them Right. So, yeah, like it's just that I got a little bit lazy, like complacent at a time, right, so when Luke came I thought I said, oh, this guy like pretty interesting, good talker, good connection. I say in the future, you can consider this route, right. So, as a matter of fact, we kind of built Capital Club Initially. It's called, like, full stack entrepreneurs FSE. That was in 2018, when Luke wanted me to be the face of Capital Club because I have a brand. Luke doesn't have a brand.

Steve Tan: 1:01:01

Back then, right, but I said no, I don't, I don't, I don't really enjoy being doing content that much Like for me to sit down and do content. I think it's also because I wasn't authentic. Back then, right, there was a lot of fake facade persona that you want to cultivate online. Right. And when you start doing a lot of that, you start feeling imposter syndrome. Right, because naturally I'm not a flashy person, but I do it because to attract attention.

Steve Tan: 1:01:31

But when I keep doing that and doing that, I feel like it's like it's it's it's probably eating myself inside. Right, the imposter syndrome, the feeling, the insecurity. Why do I have to do that? Right, buying all these cars, going to to clubs, ktvs and all this, like splurging on drinks, getting a lot of girls and all these different things. And that was when I started having major growth, when I started cutting out all this stuff and I started like in 2018, I was like fucking fat. I was probably like what? 75 kg? Right, like bloated fat, slow, all right, not clearing the mind we still make a lot of money, yeah making money, but, like the connection, I think I could have made way more money if I wasn't lazy.

Steve Tan: 1:02:24

I was lazy that time like a lot of things are automated, like I could have made probably like so much more money with crypto if I was lazy that time. Like a lot of things are automated, like I could have made probably like so much more money with crypto if I was like fully invested. Yeah, because that was a good cycle. Cycle one was the best time to make money. A lot of my friends hit financial freedom in first cycle. How much would that be? A few hundred million, yeah, like one of my friends probably make half a billion dollars net from one cycle.

Steve Tan: 1:02:50

So the easiest way to make money is to go all in at the right opportunity at the earliest stage in time, not when the market is like a red ocean. Right now, crypto is like institutional funds already coming in right and all this it's just getting more and more controlled right. It's not as easy and as as more and more cycles goes, it's just gonna get harder and harder and harder and harder right for retail investors to make money because, like institutional funds already in right. So there's not a lot of like volatility in the markets. So I've identified yeah, the best way to make money is to fucking go all in convicted in one, focused on that and that alone.

Steve Tan: 1:03:37

So, for me, I was like, well, last time I was younger, I just started spraying bullets, investing here and there, investing in things that you don't know, and I lost so much money. I probably lost a lot of my hard-earned money because I don't I'm investing in things I don't know, right. So now, which is why, when I started building, when, when I lost everything in 2015 right, I started rebuilding out my, my whole thing in 2016, I made my first million dollars in 30 days. When I restarted from being bankrupt right, but that's not.

Steve Tan: 1:04:05

A lot of people say, oh, steve, it's like 2016 and 17, it's easy, right, fuck that shit, man, there's nothing called easy well, obviously it's easier to run ads, but do you think I can go from zero to a million dollars without any resources connections? I was able to get free credit uh, free. I was able to get credits from Facebook to pay 60 days later because of my relationship built back in 2008. Right, in 2008, my account manager was just an account manager, but in 2016, he's head of APAC, right. So those are favors I can call because I've always built. I always believe in building good relationships. Right, I don't burn bridges, right.

Steve Tan: 1:04:46

So when I started out in 2008, I was the biggest customer to one of my logistics partner right, he was a brokie at that point of time. He has to borrow a car just to like make himself look better when he drives me around in shanghai when I was visiting him, like, he doesn't want to look like a broken. He's like like he's just starting out and I was his biggest customer back then and I literally gave him his first pot of gold through on international shipping. Right then, fast forward till 2016, when I was a brookie, he was a really big player in the logistics space. So when I told him my story, he was like let me help you out. You helped me in my early stage, so he gave me $2 million worth of credit. No collaterals, no nothing, free shipping for everything and I can pay back later.

Darren: 1:05:41

So which impacted time? Right? It's the impact of time again, right. Exactly the work you did in the early 2000s came back to pay All the relationships.

Steve Tan: 1:05:51

Of course, facebook ads is slightly different, like in 2008 and 2016,. Right, but fundamentally nothing's changed too much. Right, marketing, fundamentally at core, is still the same. It doesn't matter if it's info, e-commerce, retail, everything goes back to the fundamental basics. Most people just have a different spin in different industries, which is fine, right.

Steve Tan: 1:06:13

But with that, like a lot of people like, when I first showed my $360,000 screenshot and I posted across some Facebook groups, I got a lot of hate Ah, this guy is just like, like, just like bullshit. This guy is bullshit, right. But when I posted that nobody know that I have like what? 10 over years of experience in e-com, 10 years of pain, yeah, right. So when I showed that, people start calling me out like fuck this guy, this guy is a scam, right, I said, all right, sure, and I turn up. You guys don't like the screenshot? No worries, I'll do a live record, I'll do a live stream. All right, log into Shopify, refresh, click around. Oh, we made 200,000. Next yesterday, today, $360,000 a day. That was when that move solidified my credibility in the space, right, all the haters turned to fans, turned to followers Because, like, oh shit, this guy's a real deal.

Darren: 1:07:19

Man, first they laugh, then they ask for it.

Steve Tan: 1:07:22

And the thing here is, like most humans, most people especially, especially I was at there. Like when you tell me, like if you tell me when I was in school that I can buy an event in my life, I would never believe that, right, because when I was very young I saw the bat, the batmobile, I was like, oh, this is a really nice car, it costs about one million dollars. And I think my, my cousins told me like now don't, don't, don't even think about that, we'll never achieve that in our life. I was like that's, that's all this negative, limiting beliefs, that's like programmed in your mind by brokies around you and most people don't understand that Right. So when, when I, when I learned that actually the mind is really super powerful, like that's the best asset we have, right, it controls everything, right, it controls how you feel, it controls how you're motivated. But when you're aligned, your body which is, if you're aligned with your body, mind and soul, right, and you're kind of like a line in one line and you're very clear your future and your vision no one can stop you. You do whatever it takes to get to your vision, right.

Steve Tan: 1:08:31

So, yeah, that's kind of like how I believe is helpful for, like most people, like, if you want to, it's really because everybody from different stage in life is very different. Right, zero to one, one to two, two to three, it's all different. It's all different, right, but I think the earlier, the earlier you can get into personal development. Right, I think it's it's as important as making money. 100 right, because if you don't like, zero to one for sure, like, maybe three, four hours of sleep a day, common. Like. If you don't like, if you don't have the mentality, work like a mad person in in. In chinese words we say like, if you don't intend to work like a dog, right, don't even try, because entrepreneurship is not a smooth sailing journey.

Darren: 1:09:16

100 right, I love that man because people are making it look easier. Right, and if you're obviously familiar with hermosy, right, he has the value equation which is like the dream outcome and the perceived likelihood of achievement.

Darren: 1:09:28

the effort and sacrifice and time delay. Everyone online is is like the dream outcome and the perceived likelihood of achievement. The effort and sacrifice and time delay Everyone online is selling you. The dream outcome is easy and the effort and sacrifice, that's okay. Just do a few hours a day and the probability that'll happen is up here, which is like. That's where I love speaking to you, because I can feel. I can feel the pain that you've had Right and the way you've been able to translate this.

Darren: 1:09:48

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Darren: 1:10:09

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Steve Tan: 1:10:53

much money you've made. Made, yeah, for um drop shipping. I probably made 200 plus million, yeah, like my software companies. My software company called intercard. We did 1.5 billion dollars in two years. What not my sales, not sales, not mine Gross GMV for all my merchants.

Darren: 1:11:11

Oh, for all the merchants.

Steve Tan: 1:11:12

So we built like a checkout, like a checkout, which eventually we got shut down by Shopify because we're like a competitor to them, to Shopify Plus, because people who use us they don't need to use Shopify Plus, right? So I was a bit naive because I thought I had really good relationships with with shopify, but at the end of the day I wouldn't blame them because it is what it is, it's business. If I was in their position I would have done the same, right? So initially they were. They were quite desperate to find out who's behind Intercard. Like all the account managers. Everyone's trying to ask like hey, do you know who's the owner of Intercard? I say so. A lot of a few of them ping me like do you know who's the owner? I said I'm the owner, what are you talking about? Right? Then say, oh, like um, you, probably. I was like okay, great. So in my mind that's two thoughts is it an acquisition or is it a fuck off? So I had someone higher up told me it's more likely to get fucked off, right, because we are a competitor to them. Right, and of course they can see all the numbers that we're doing for all our stores, right. And uh, it was it was. It was a sad experience because that company is probably going to at least if, if we don't get kicked out, it's probably going to be sold for at least a few hundred million dollars For sure, like for drop shipping, 200 million. It's not profits, it's sales, yeah, right. But for if you sell a company like a software company, that's net income, that's net income and it's all bootstrapped yeah, bootstrap. No ads, no ads. All what are fun? Because people, that all because people that are using it to your ecosystem, people that use it, they have results. That's what's most important. People that we, people that use my software, easily increase 30 revenue, higher conversion rates, higher average order value, everything right. So people, word of mouth, all the big sellers start using it. Most people want to integrate with us.

Steve Tan: 1:13:13

I think the lack of foresight is because we built everything on Shopify. That was a mistake. That was also kind of like putting all our eggs in one basket, right. But there's one company called Bolt B-O-L-T. Very similar model, but they're smart. They build it as a standalone that integrates with any shopify, woocommerce, magento, big commerce, everything, just an api. Uh, it's a standalone like uh, hosted checkout, right, which kind of strap is doing right now, right, if we have gone that route, if Shopify asked us to fuck off, I was like, okay, sure, whatever, we still have all these other clients, right?

Steve Tan: 1:13:53

So that, of course, all this experience and, of course, going all in in some of my ventures made me realize that, at the end of the day, no matter how rich you are, you should always diversify your assets, your business and everything. Right. So, I don't have all my portfolio in crypto Hell, no, right. I don't have all my money in US dollars, not all my money in Singapore dollars right.

Steve Tan: 1:14:15

Diversify all my portfolios different countries, different banks right. Different investment assets and, yeah, even crypto. I don't put all my bags in bitcoin, right. Right. Diversify into, like, the few things that I'm very convicted with, like, for example, solana right. So those are, those are. Those are ways to kind of like mitigate risk in my perspective, and when you start having money, I think it's important to start building up your passive income, right? So if you're at a stage, a stage whereby, for me, like I'm at a stage whereby my passive pays for everything, like I don't have to work for a single day and I don't have to I can get everything paid off like comfortably Right Everything, especially like now I'm staying in Malaysia even better Right.

Darren: 1:15:01

You live two lifetimes.

Steve Tan: 1:15:03

You're making US dollars here, Like the exchange rate is what? 4.5, 4.4 or whichever, it doesn't matter. So everything on the menu is like 80% off. It's crazy man. Yeah, Like I come here, I have a way better lifestyle In Singapore. I'm probably spending like 60K 70K a month.

Darren: 1:15:20

I'm spending so much money in Singapore.

Steve Tan: 1:15:22

I was spending so much and I was, of course, like, I was like using it for a lot of like partying and all that stuff which, like you know, eventually I realized that, hey, like, that's not making me more fulfilled, that's not pushing me towards closer to who I want to become. And I my my definition of like success is like the road to success is always under construction, right, there's no perfection, right. And what is success? Success to me is like how do I as a human being or as a man, do the best I can to feel the most fulfilled in everything, every single thing I do, every single day? Right, obviously, you have good days, you have bad days, there's days that you don't feel like doing my co-plunge, that you don't feel like going to the gym, but it's that discipline that actually drives you forward. But why do you have discipline? Because I think discipline, in some way, a lot of people feel discipline is like oh, I just need to be consistent. No, like, fundamentally, I think discipline is the highest level of self-love, to push yourself closer, to not be able to be distracted by, like, short-term gains, right, but in the pursuit of the long term, which is what is important, most people plan too short. I think that's the that's a problem.

Steve Tan: 1:16:43

Most people don't see far enough, right? Most people see like oh, one year, two year, three year, oh, like in three years I want to buy this house, like, but why do you want to buy that house? For no point, right? And most people are buying houses Like for me, like program, yeah, it's like like you People buy that land. A developer buys that land for that price, build it up 30 levels and 30x the price and one floor has, like what? 20, 30 units. It's actually like, in my opinion, it's like air money, like you're building money on the air. If I would buy a land, for sure, because I own that land, I will build my house. I wouldn't stay in an apartment if I was to buy, right, but if I was renting, sure, whichever like, whichever is more convenient for me.

Darren: 1:17:35

Whatever you want, as well where you live, right, you don't need to live you don't need to own where you live.

Steve Tan: 1:17:39

I think right now, to be honest, right, especially after leaving Singapore, I feel like, wow, freedom, freedom of location, is great. Like I can just move, like I literally moved from Singapore here in two weeks. Everything, pack everything. I don't even. I never pack a single thing in my house. What was the driver for that? You think I was? I was kind of sued in Singapore for speeding right In my car. Well, obviously I was speeding, but I felt it's a little bit harsh. Right, it's a little bit too harsh for my liking. Right, I felt it was a little bit harsh, it was a little bit too harsh for my liking.

Steve Tan: 1:18:10

But at the end of the day, I realized that I want to go to a place, or any place that I can go, whereby I have more flexibility in terms of connections. I mean, everywhere in the world, connections work, especially in China. One meal, one phone call, so I bought a, especially in China. One meal, one phone call, right. So I bought a house in China. That's right opposite to, like, the state government, right? So in China they're quite strict with foreigners. I'm a Singaporean, right? So they are afraid that I'm a spy. Yeah, really. So when I want to buy it they say no. So I made some phone calls like high up, all the way to beijing, like beijing's, where the highest officials I have some friends there are powerful friends, so they call like the state. Then the state goes down to like zejiang, then ningbo. Ningbo is like um, uh, the city of, like Zhejiang, right, the main city, sorry, that's Hangzhou. Hangzhou is where Alibaba is. It's probably one hour from Hangzhou.

Darren: 1:19:15

It's Ningbo have you ever met the Alibaba founder, jack Ma?

Steve Tan: 1:19:19

no, like, I've been to their campus, right, but when I was, when I was there, like in China, I've learned a lot of pr, human relationship, public relations, the importance of relationships, favors you can call people that you can call. I was able to buy that house eventually. Right, I was able to buy that house. That's approved by secrets. They are china's version of secret service, because they have to check their backgrounds and everything. So when I met the three, I was kind of interviewed by like three people from the state secret service, like, but there's definitely clauses like oh, you can't sell this to a foreigner, you can only sell it to a local, blah, blah, blah and all these different things. I said, yeah, like, hey, I'm a businessman in china. Like, I love this house because it's developed by a singapore developer, right, I bought it. Love this house because it's developed by a Singapore developer, right, I bought it at a good price because that person wants to liquidate their house quickly. So we had a great chat and he said, oh, you have really powerful friends. He said like, yeah, like, if not, I wouldn't even have that conversation, especially as a foreigner. He said you have good friends up there, right, so, and I was pretty young, like when I was talking to those guys, I understand, wow, like, money talks, relationship works, right. And when I moved into the house, by right, you couldn't change the infrastructure of like the glass and everything, right, I demolished all my glass and the property developer came to me like like hey, you, you have to reinstate that. You can't do this because it has to be consistent and everything. I said why? Because mine looks better than yours, right? He said oh, because the like there's, like the government doesn't allow it. Yeah, I said who? Sorry? I said they gave me. They gave me the name, the number. I called some of my friends hey, can you speak to? Like I posted on my sort of like WeChat, like my social. I said do you have, do I have, any friends on my network that knows people in this department? So some of them comment us. I'm like hey, can you do me a favor? Right Next day I started installing all my like full glass across. I changed my doors and everything, like in the entire, in the entire block of like about 200 units I'm the only exclusive unit that was able to do that so that, but that goes to show that even like a normal person like me that has some connections, is able to do that.

Steve Tan: 1:21:43

Imagine the billionaires of China the amount of power, the amount of information that they have as a syndicate in their own inner circle. Do you think they don't control in some way, shape or form some states, some cities, right? Do you think all there's? No, there's no. It's not by coincidence that all this, all the guards, doesn't matter in Russia, china or anywhere in the world. It's all by privileged information.

Steve Tan: 1:22:11

For example, if I want to know, if I'm really good with the city mayor, that I know a plot of land that's probably maybe $100 PSF right now rural lands, no ecosystem, no buildings there. But if I know the city mayor that in five years they're going to build an entire built ecosystem of shopping malls, schools, everything. Now the PSF is probably like what? $10,000. But I was able to buy it at $100, right, that's like what? 1,000x, right, 1,000x. What do I do? I'll build up all the real estate or drive up all the pricing. Oh, city mayor, take 10 house. I'll give you 10 units of my house Free. That's worth maybe $2 million each Right. Which is why, when you see China, when they crack down on all these officials, dude, they're fucking rich Like any big officials that's corrupted in China easily worth like half a billion to a few billion dollars easily, and how high up would that be.

Steve Tan: 1:23:13

It doesn't like it depends how much power you have, like some. Like, if you're like, it really depends on their, their level of corruption, right, especially those with like huge power, right. I think there's one guy I forgot his name very high political bureau person that was taken off. That guy probably has a few billion dollars. He literally owns all the oil.

Darren: 1:23:37

But they have security guards and everything as well to protect their wealth. Even yourself, are you surrounded by security. As a result, do you ever fear?

Steve Tan: 1:23:47

No, because I'm a very low-key guy. I don't flaunt my wealth, like you know, and I honestly there's like you should open shorts like there's.

Steve Tan: 1:23:54

Like there is. Like when I when I was in philippines right, I dress like a, I wear my flip flops, I wear a normal white t-shirt and my shorts. Like, oh, there's no point because, like, I don't need to right what. Like, what's the point? I don't see a point in flaunting wealth. Right, there's no point because, like, I don't need to right. Like, what's the point? I don't see a point in flaunting wealth. Right, there's no benefits for that. Like, the only thing.

Steve Tan: 1:24:13

The only time when people really want to flaunt their wealth is maybe they feel insecure, right, they lack confidence, right, I think I'm pretty okay in terms of my personal development, my mindset and everything, so I feel comfortable with people. Like, I don't really need to puff up my ego, puff up myself to look better. Just be authentic, right? If you like me, like me, don't don't like me, so be it. I don't care. Right, last time I used to care, I used to care too much whether people like me or hate me, right?

Steve Tan: 1:24:42

So when I start, like when I was, like when I was kind of like bawling hard, you know, like we spent hundred hundred two hundred thousand dollars a night clubbing, popping champagnes and all that stuff. Yeah, like those are fun times, but what does it serve you? Nothing. Like it's just a night of happiness which can be easily done with like a few drinks, without going there and fund wealth. Yeah Right, a lot of people go there. Like a lot of people go there. It's like a lot of ultra rich people go there as well, because they're they have nothing better to do. All they all they, all they have is just money, which is quite sad at the same time, because there's so much more in life than just money. 100 right, and like I mean I love watches, but I don't know, I just wear my whoop, I just wear my whoop around.

Darren: 1:25:24

I don't wear a watch?

Steve Tan: 1:25:26

right, I have a watches in my home. I just put it in my in my closet because I just like I just I just like seeing them, that's it right. I don't, I don't really like. I only wear my watches when I go to important events, like you know, just like you know dress, suits or whichever, I'll wear my watch. But like luke was asking me, bro, like what? Like, you have all these watches, why don't, why don't you wear them? It I was like no, I don't like that, why do I wear it? I'm tracking my sleep, I'm tracking my steps.

Steve Tan: 1:25:48

I care more about my health than what people perceive of me. Right, I don't need, I don't need to show off myself in like this ways. But, of course, if the situation is where I needed to impress someone, then, yeah, I'll probably wear a really expensive watch. I'm going to show that, hey, this guy probably is rich. Because people would most people would judge the books by its covers. Right, it's normal, like most people will. Right, what car is he driving? What watch is he Like? Everything, right? So it really depends on the situation that you're in. But it's not wrong to package yourself right, and I believe that it's important to package yourself, especially when you're in an early stage, because it's hard, you know people would take you seriously if you're a nobody. It's it's the fact, right, would you? Will you deal with someone who's like, probably like um, in business partnerships where he, he, he has a few lost ventures, he drives like a broke, like second-hand car or whichever? No, right, you would rather work with someone who's like, more successful, as proven track record and everything. Yeah, it is, I mean like it or not.

Steve Tan: 1:27:02

Social proof is very important in in this society. So I, I wish, maybe in the next when, when, when, I really want to focus on my family in the future. I'm single and I'm not married yet, but when I have a family I'll probably, I'll probably delete everything. Social media a hundred percent, like, not even one bit. Because, like, social media is great, great entertainment. But entertainment creates what bots Like I mean you, great entertainment. But entertainment creates what bots like I mean you have such, uh, you should have watched the netflix series called what social dilemma or something. Yeah, right, it's, it's all engineered, it's all engineered right, the earlier you understand. I mean, I'm a victim.

Steve Tan: 1:27:41

I play, I click tiktok sometimes, but I did it for, like product research in the past. Yeah, right, you're the creator, not the consumer. Yeah, yeah, so it's important. But sometimes it's easy to fall into those parts, right? So, for example, if you register a new TikTok account, the first thing especially if you're a guy the first thing you will see is hot girls. Why? Because that's what attracts people Sex sells Right, sex sells Right. So those are all engineered with a specific intention retention, use, use, time and everything right.

Steve Tan: 1:28:13

So would I want to be that? No, like, like I'm like when I moved to malaysia oh man, life's great. Like I became super active. I used to. I used to don't work out in singapore like working out in singapore with a private coach is probably 120 and 120 dollars, singapore dollars. Here I have a bodybuilding champion sick for 30 a session, right, I train like three, four times a week. My badminton coach is an ex-national team player. My tennis coach is the ex-pga player. My swimming coach is a triathlete ironman champion, like all these people. So you're surrounded by people. I mean for people that can become champions at their fields. There's a certain mindset that they have 100. And why would I want to train with a normal singaporean? Right, maybe, if level, if he's a bodybuilder probably. He's going to cost $500. Why would I pay someone $500? I can get it for $30.

Darren: 1:29:13

Yeah Right, I'm a businessman, so whatever, like I don't feel, like it's not because I'm rich and I'll, I'll want to pay more, no it doesn't work that way thing in the online space is like, oh, like you know, you need to be in this like 500 a month gym. It's like, no, you don't. You need to train, you need to get really fit and you need to go do things you need to do. Like there's that disconnect, like that's where I see people make 100k a month and spend 99k of that in a month right, but like there's two and there's two sides to that. I've had people say to me before that you know well, they have the skills to go make it again and again, and again. But my kind of take on it is just like why do we need to spend that? That's just my take on it.

Steve Tan: 1:29:55

You can do whatever you want with your life, right. I think it's a lot of people have like a very weird relationship with money. Yeah, right, most people don't really like, for example, yeah, I see people living like a crazy lifestyle. They probably make two, three million dollars a month. They probably spend a million. But why spend that million? Well, why do you need to have that kind of lifestyle? Yeah, because you didn't have it in the beginning, though, when you were born you didn't, yeah, so.

Steve Tan: 1:30:15

So a lot of people like, especially myself, right, like when I was upbringing, like not a really popular kid in school, nerdy, right, nerdy, boring, short, not cool, right, not a cool kid. So I think when you have all these traits, when you grow up and when you suddenly have money, you want to prove to everybody like you're the big shot, right. But when you understand that all those journey in your life is here to serve a certain purpose and when you equalize that, it's like, oh, okay, like just be authentic, because authenticity is the highest vibration anybody could have, right, and that would allow you to be happy, fulfilled, right. And if you're infatuated that you need to have a hundred million to be happy, you're going to be miserable and whatever you do, whatever success that you have, you will be unhappy because you have an infatuation that, oh only because I have 100 million I'll be happy. And when people hit 100 million, they realize that they're not happy because it's not because of the money, it's because they are not ready, right, they're not ready to embrace those wealth, right. So for me, right now, it's easy I'll put in investments, embrace those wealth right. So for me, right now, it's easy. Like I'll put in investments, like some some gets me 10 so I have some safe bonds in, like singapore, like five to seven percent a year, safe, safe, safe. Like nothing goes wrong, yeah, I have those. Like higher risk investments. I have investment in watches, right on all the different things. I have airbnb's investments. That nets me about 30 per year, not bad, not like crypto.

Steve Tan: 1:31:48

Few hundred percent, but not everything needs to be few hundred percent, right. And most people don't realize that. Wow, why do you need a hundred million? Yeah, sure, I mean a hundred million is great. But even $10 million at 5%, that's 500K a year without doing shit. 500 divided 12, that's almost 50k a month. 40 plus k us dollars. Like, could you spend 40k a month? Yeah, unless you're some like slurging, like crazy, crazy guy clubbing every single day. I was spending like 50 to 60k a month on clubbing.

Steve Tan: 1:32:25

Like back in those days sometimes 100k a month like I was like why am I doing that shit? It's so dumb, yeah, right, it's so dumb. It's just like you're just trying to do that to fill their own ego, right, and it's a never-ending hole to do that right. So, like, for me, it's like sure, like, yeah, probably I would love to make a few hundred million, right, but at another day, like what you want to do is like there's something called the Ikigai, right, yeah, right. So if you're able to identify that your passion, your vision and everything that you're building in a way also serves you in making money, right. So if you can achieve all of that points right Fulfillment, happiness, empowerment, doing something that you love, making money at the same time and serving people, you will find your perfect ikigai right.

Steve Tan: 1:33:20

When you find your ikigai, yeah, sure, you'll make money, but money is not your main priority, it's just part of the process, it's a by-product, right. So when you have, when you understand that, it's like, oh sure, like Elon Musk, right, he makes so much money in the process of fulfilling his own vision, right. So that's that's like. I have a lot of respect for Elon because like this is like oh my god, it's like everywhere. Like he has like billion dollars, so many billion dollar companies is running, don't even know how that guy manages his time. When people ask me like steve, how do you manage? You don't ask me. Ask elon, right, not even the best guy to to to be like you know, there's compared. There's always levels to levels, right, there's always levels to levels right.

Steve Tan: 1:34:03

So that's such a good fucking point yeah, like I mean honestly, like I think I'm pretty for asians, I think I'm we're pretty significantly more humble than like, uh, I think american, americans or whichever like people will call themselves like like, um, the god of econ, the king of econ, I was like dude, like even when I was doing like that amount of revenue, like if you compare me to what Jeff Bezos, you're nothing, you're nothing. Like that's like maybe like an hour of revenue, right.

Darren: 1:34:34

Yeah.

Steve Tan: 1:34:35

So the the the point is like, if you puff yourself so high up, it's very hard to come down, and when you get hit and you get humbled, it's a very painful lesson, right? So, which is why I felt like, oh, like, no, I mean like, if I want to do content, I'll be authentic. Sure, like I have. My last time when I, when people come to my masterminds, I would drive my Aventador like feels like oh, wow. But I realized like, no, like, why do I like? People come to me, not because I have these things. People come to me because they want to learn from me my journey, my knowledge, my know-hows, my pitfalls, all the painful lessons I've learned, and I've shared with them as a condensed version so that people would avoid. Because if you avoid making the same mistakes, what you're paying me 15K is not just for your knowledge, it's also how could you save 15 000 or more of potential problems? And the time yeah, how long that time? Most people don't understand because most people think like oh, yeah, I can just watch it on youtube. I was like sure, go for it, right. Why do you want to? Why do you want to go for youtube? To learn from someone who most likely haven't been there and done that, right? And why do you want to learn from someone that most potentially hasn't made it themselves? Yeah, right, and you're.

Steve Tan: 1:36:00

When people try to take that route on themselves, it's because they don't value their own time 100, right. They don't know what they're worth, right. If they don't know what they're working, that's like okay, I'll figure it out myself. But time is money, right for me, honestly speaking, like for me to like go dinner with someone else. I don't, I don't do dinners. Like I don't do lunch, I don't do coffees, unless it's someone that, like, came by referral or whichever. Like, fuck, no, why should I spend my time? It's not that I'm arrogant or proud because I value my time, right.

Steve Tan: 1:36:33

People would often message me on instagram like, hey, steve, can I buy you a lunch and buy you coffee? Like, sorry, um, respectfully no, because most likely, if not, your I'm the conversations is there for you to extract value from me. It's not a fair exchange. Everything needs to be a fair exchange, including relationships, right, Everything is a fair exchange, right. If there's a moment there's no fair exchange, that's when, like, judgments or unhappiness or resentments would all happen. Keeping score, yes, yes, right. So, like, everyone's keeping score in a relationship as well, right, like your husband, your wife or whichever like. If you keep treating your wife like shit, she's keeping a score like, and when the score hits up enough, she'll blow up on you, right, that's where you borrow, right.

Steve Tan: 1:37:25

So effective communication, and I focus a lot on learning communication because I think communication is one of the best things that god has invented for us to communicate, right, but most people don't know how to effectively communicate. Most people are keyboard warriors. Right, most people just hide behind the computer. It's easy, like, it's easy to just put a shitty comment, right, right. So when sometimes, like before, I'll be very triggered by people talking about me online, but I eventually realized, like, why do I want to give this people attention? They are nobodies. 99, they're brokies yeah, probably the lowest one percent of the brokies like, why do I want to even give my attention to these guys?

Steve Tan: 1:38:17

it's your energy too right, my energy everything coming together, triggering me unhappiness, and everything.

Darren: 1:38:22

No point, no point yeah, instead of like spending that time in the comments fucking hating back on people, you can put that back into your business and say it's the same as meeting people, like I'd love to be able to meet everybody, but you have limited amount of energy, exactly, and as you get older, that energy bear actually decreases, you know, throughout time, like as you age, so you need to limit that. Steve, I want to say a massive thank you. This has been a an amazing podcast. Man, I really really appreciate this and I appreciate your time. I know you're you're very busy guy a lot on, and we could probably go for another two hours. I appreciate it, though, genuinely Pleasure yeah, I appreciate it, man, and anything I can ever do for you. Honestly, I really deeply mean this. I'd love to help you in any way I can. Thank you.

Steve Tan: 1:39:00

Thank you, brother, thank you for having me, thanks.