Pybites Podcast

#159 - How Luis Palacios Transitioned from Blue Collar to Tech with Python & Mindset

• Julian Sequeira & Bob Belderbos

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In this episode Julian speaks with Luis Palacios, an IT Analyst and aspiring Cloud Architect.

What makes this conversation extra special is that Luis shares his journey from a traditionally "blue collar", labour intensive role, to his first job in I.T. Full disclaimer: he achieved this after completing our PDM Program.

Luis shares how learning Python and Mindset skills built his confidence such that he was able to apply for his first tech role and then continue pushing through the complexities and challenges that came with it.

This really reinforces one of our current messages to folks that Python makes coding accessible to everyone. It doesn't matter who you are, or what industry you're in, Python can help you achieve your goals!

Enjoy!

Chapters:
00:00 Introduction episode and Luis
03:22 Luis' career journey
06:58 PDM takeaways, mindset and building confidence
09:21 From custodian to IT analyst
14:23 Favorite helpdesk experiences and networking
16:58 Python coding, side projects and LLMs
21:16 2 mindset tips
24:58 Importance of podcasts for learning
27:58 What's next?
30:56 Final piece of advice / takeaway
32:06 Book tip: Wiring the Winning Organization
34:10 Wrap up / outro

Links:
- Reach out to Luis on LinkedIn
- Book tip: Wiring the Winning Organization

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Connect with us on LinkedIn:
- Julian
- Bob

And to get our weekly developer / mindset emails, sign up here

I listened to countless stories that I can relate to, and that really helps me out. So if you're out there and you're trying to pivot your career, just stick to your guns and make sure that you just give yourself all the chances. Don't deny yourself. Don't say, I can't do that, or I don't think I'm good enough for that, because you are. And you just have to. You just have to apply yourself. Hello, and welcome to the Pibytes podcast, where we talk about Python career and mindset. We're your hosts. I'm Julian Sequeira. And I am Bob Valdebos. If you're looking to improve your python, your career, and learn the mindset for success, this is the podcast for you. Let's get started. All right, everyone, welcome back. This is Julian still, and I'm here with our guest today, Luis Palacios. Luis, welcome, man. How you going? Hey. Thank you, Julian. It's an absolute honor. That's a high praise. I appreciate it. Thanks, man. Yeah. So, everyone, as per the intro, Luis is here to tell us about his career journey into tech and all the amazing things he's done, but also that he's just a longtime community member for pie bytes, so it fills me with a lot of pride and joy to have him on the podcast. It's very exciting. It's been a couple of years, so I'm very excited. So, to kick things off, Luis, introduction. Go for it. Who are you? What do you do? What's happening? Yeah, so, again, my name is Luis Palacios. I live in southern California, and I work as an IT analyst at the Scripps Research Institute. So that's the day job. And then I have some hobbies. I like to rock climb. I like to play music. I like to skateboard and just kind of keep that part of my brain going because I'm doing all the tech stuff at work. So, yeah, that's kind of my short introduction there. I think, without boring you guys too much. That's kind of the short of it. Yeah. Well, you know, the thing I'll balance, I'll give to that is that I only just. Just before we hit record, I only just realized that when you say rock climbing, you actually mean a rock face. Like mountains and things. I thought you meant, like, indoor rock climbing, bouldering, that sort of stuff. So I was a bit thrown off. That's pretty cool. Before we dive in, what's the most challenging climb you've done? Is that how it works? It does work like that. I would say off the top, it would be, there was a thousand foot climb in Tuolumne. And, yeah, that was probably the most challenging, just because logistically, uh, you figure a few things out. It was my first time going up that high. Yeah. And so, yeah, that was, it was more of a mental challenge than any, than a physical challenge. But just the same, you know, you, you look at something that big and you go, how. How am I going to get up this thing? So, you know, you trust your partner, and then your partner trusts you, and you guys get to work. I didn't even anticipate that answer, but I'm already seeing comparisons to coding and success and all those things. The mindset side that I won't, I won't jump into that. That'll be another time. All right, so, look, thank you for jumping on. Thank you for sharing that and for being here and sharing your story today. The amazing thing about your career, Luis, is that it's so inspirational to me with the stuff that you've done, where you came from to where you are now and how it doesn't matter, as long as you have the right mindset, you can achieve anything, right? You could just push and you'll solve problems and get there. So, without ruining the story, I'm going to hand over to you, tell us the journey that you took. What was the job you're in before you came to meet myself and Bob with pie bytes and everything, what were you doing? What was the dream? And then how did you get to where you are now? Go for it. Right? So I was working some blue collar jobs, so I was working in landscaping when I decided, you know, that I wanted something more, was just getting paid a low wage and didn't have any benefits. So just kind of had to put my foot down. And I basically had this thought to myself where I, you know, I told myself, you know, I feel like I can do a lot more. I feel that my brain can take on a little bit more challenging things because I was just kind of mowing lawns, using weed whackers to clean up spaces and things like that. You know, I decided to pivot and dive into coding and programming, you know, what's that? So I just made a free account somewhere and started learning, like, really, really basic stuff and then decided, like, this is what I like. I want to try to continue with it moving forward. I got a job as a, what we call in the States a custodian, which is basically something like a groundskeeper or someone that helps to maintain the facilities of a school. Once I got into there, I think it was shortly after I joined pibytes and really started digging into python a little deeper, and I had this parallel thing where I was learning about Python, and then I was also learning about basically just like, cloud and what that means and kind of, what do people do with the cloud? What is the cloud? So that's kind of where my journey started, and when I decided, hey, I want to pivot. I want to get into some of these things I find interesting, and I think I can create a better career out of this. Yeah, that's wicked, man. I'm always blown away by that story. I love it. So you had the custodian role when we first chatted. That's what I remember. And you've then moved into the IT sector since then. So the first thing you did while you were on that learning path was you discovered us somehow, actually, I don't remember. How did you stumble across PI bytes? Do you remember? I was listening to talk python. Okay. And you guys were a guest on there, and I was like, oh, man. Yeah, these guys have a program that I might be interested in. So I just started looking into it from there, and then I. It was funny because I remember going into, like, try to sign up. There was something, you know, I can't remember exactly, but it was like, book a call with julian. I was like, really? This guy's going to, like, talk to me. Okay. And so I did it. And, yeah. And then we just kind of went from there, and you introduced me to some of the concepts and things that you guys were looking to do with the program and to help help people like me. And, yeah, I just. It was great. I was like, okay, I'm sold. Let's. I want to invest in myself, you know? That's so cool. I. Thank you. Thank you for booking that call. I actually think that's where a lot of the imposter syndrome starts. People are like, I don't. I don't want to book that call. I. Makes me nervous. I don't feel like I'm ready. I'm not like, you know, it's just a coffee chat, right? Maybe we should change the title to have a coffee chat or something. But, um. That's amazing. So you. You've obviously, you jumped in. You took that plunge. You had the confidence to say, screw it, I'm going to book the call. And then you eventually jumped into the program. I remember you saved up for it, and you jumped in. Both feed in. You just went all into it. So what was it that helped? Well, why? And this isn't supposed to be like a pitch for the program, but it's more so that there was a lot of mindset in the program as well. Right. There was a ton of mindset. And especially, you know, I hate to tie it back to what we were talking about, the beginning, but it kind of works because you look at how am I going to build an application? How are we going to make something that works? It was really nice because what the program taught me was that you sort of just take these little chunks or you start with something and then you just keep building off of that and eventually you're going to end up with this body of work. And that was an important lesson for me because it really helped with my future projects. Any project that I do now, I don't know how it's going to get done sometimes, but it kind of gave me confidence, I guess, is what I'm trying to say. Cool. And that's huge, you know, and that's translating to my job. Yeah, good, good stuff. That's super cool. And so you, you were developing your python skills, you were learning these best practices, and most importantly, you were building the confidence to be able to tackle future problems because, you know, like Bob and I, we always say we don't want people to rely on our coaching forever. When is go through the coaching and then be confident enough to tackle things yourself later. So that actually is amazing to hear that, you know, even now, you, a couple of years later, you are sitting there and you're still able to break things down into the chunks, which I liked hearing about with your rock climbing as well. And I always tell people you do this all the time with other, you know, skills and hobbies and things that you do, like playing an instrument. You break things down to just single notes, you know? Yeah, I think that's such a huge takeaway. You can transfer whatever skills that you have developed and they really do transfer into this field. It's amazing. I've just seen it over and over and over and I think that it's really going to help, you know, make me more successful in the future. But it's just finding, kind of finding your lane and finding, you know, not only what interests you, but, you know, what makes sense for you to get into if you're looking to change your career or if you just, if you're just looking for a new hobby. But for me, it was looking for a new career. So, yeah, I'm really grateful. No, yeah. Well, that's. You did all the work, man. Yeah. So, yeah, you, you earned it and you worked your way there. So, okay, moving on then, to the next logical step of this is with all these skills and this confidence and this, you know, proof that you can do it, that you've proven to yourself by building an app and, and coding and showing that you can work with git and all these different things, how did you land the job? And what job is it exactly you mentioned at the start, but are you able to give a little more detail? So an it analyst is a fancy way of saying that I work at the help desk, which is totally okay. So the role is it analyst, which is a fancy way of saying help desk. And what I do here is I help people with all of their computer problems. This can range from networking issues that I then have to kind of gather a lot of information and then escalate to the network team, or it will be random things with applications, it will be random things with hardware, so computer screens and, you know, I need a mouse, I need a keyboard, that sort of thing. But I find it really interesting, all these other problems that I'm running into with how applications interact with other applications, how people's accounts and profiles are managed in an organization, you start to build into these really just bigger, complex systems and you start to learn more about that, even though, you know, um, I hate to say it like this, but even though I am just at the help desk, you know, this is a great starting point for someone like me, someone who, who didn't really have a lot of experience in tech before this. And so I'm really getting. It almost feels like a fire hose. It's a little bit more manageable, and you definitely just learn a ton. And so I think I'm in a crucial point where, um, as I mentioned before, I'm just trying to kind of find my lane and try to figure out what I. Exactly how I want to focus as far as this role goes and kind of what I might be doing moving forward. So. Yeah, no, that's, that's amazing. And just kudos to you, man, because it's not easy. And I've got commentary, of course, what you just said. But before I jump into that, I just want to ask you, you know, this might be a loaded question, but had you not gone through that coaching and, you know, built up the confidence and some of the tech skills and things that you needed, would you have ever considered even applying and looking at a role like this? I honestly don't think I would have had the confidence. This is going to sound really funny, but I feel after having gone through the program and trying to building those applications and trying to work through a lot of the different walls that you just naturally run into, I kind of felt like a help desk position was going to be cake. I thought it was going to be super easy, which, which a lot of parts of it is, but parts of it are, but, you know, yeah, it's, it definitely gave me a confidence boost to be like, hey, like, I can figure these things out. Um, I feel like my soft skills are good enough that, you know, anything technical I could definitely learn. And, you know, you can just hit the ground running with that because that's kind of what I'm finding, that a lot of hiring people, that's what they think. They think if this person has soft skills, they can talk. They can talk to people. Well, we can teach them the technical stuff, so let's hire them. You know, that, that sort of thing. Yeah, that's incredible. And to, you know, support what you're saying and just reiterate, I know how you said it, you were saying it's just a help desk role in it. I did that with quotes for everyone who's not watching this on YouTube, man, that's where we all started. The greatest people I've worked with in my career have been through these logical steps into the IT sector. Very few and far between. People I know in coding roles and so on have not been in a role where they had to learn the full stack. You know, where they've learned what it means to support infrastructure, to do help desk, to work retail, to support people with the simpler computer problems. And I think that's the foundation of fantastic customer service, fantastic communication skills, and it's what makes you a better developer because you understand the big picture. I actually think people who go straight from, I might not make friends with this comment, but people who go straight from, say, university into a developer role where they're just focused on a code base and nothing else, they kind of miss that magic and then they kind of have to learn it separately or through some situation, something hitting the fan, something negative that happens that forces them to learn it. But when you work your way through the IT sector like this, by starting with helpdesk, which might move into an infrastructure role or networking engineering or something. Right. You can even go straight into development from this, right. As you build your connections and contacts, it's a wonderful starting place and it's actually super important because you understand now the products that you're supporting, you understand the customer, what they want, what they're expecting, whether it's internal, external, different expectations. It's just. It's awesome. I loved my help desk time, you know? So have you had any experiences that you've really enjoyed in the role? Oh, oh, yeah. I mean, one of the most enjoyable things is when you find someone's having an issue and they tell you what it is and their, their hair is on fire and, and they tell you what it is and, and in your head you're like, oh my God, this is going to get fixed in about 2 seconds. And you go in and you do it and then you see the look on their face, especially when they're researchers, they're scientists or their doctors. Yeah. You see the look on their face and they're like, thank you so much. And then also they feel kind of dumb because they almost feel like they could figure that out for themselves. But, you know, it's really nice to, to help people and maybe kind of how you feel like you lift us up in the program. You know, I kind of feel that at the help desk where I'm supporting these scientists doing like, really important research. And so it makes me feel good to help them get past these little problems so that they can continue their work. And so that, that makes me feel good. So that's probably the most enjoyable thing, is just knowing that even if it's like a mundane thing, like, you know, someone, someone needs a mouse because they forgot theirs at home. Yeah, it just feels good to be able to support people. You know, you're part of a good cause or a bigger picture or you're, you know, it's okay to be the smaller gear in a bigger machine, but yeah, I think that's one of the most enjoyable things, is just kind of getting that reaction from people. And then I love that, and I know exactly what you mean. I miss it. And they must, you know, the gratitude they have must be so high because they're stressed out, they're freaking out. And these are contacts. As I said on the podcast I recorded with Bob earlier this week, the people that you interact with that you help, that you support in any way, whether it's, you know, something as simplistic as, hey, here's a spare mouse, or, you know, they're in, they're locked out of something and their permissions are broken and you've got to fix it or whatever it is, they're going to remember you for that, you know, and that's now a contact and a connection you have. And not that you should do it for the benefit of getting something in return, but you never know when that might spark something. Right, right. And. But that, that's just how all this works, isn't it? Is, you know, you meet people in your career and you just start to network and you start to form these relationships that they might hit you up later in life and you can offer them an opportunity, but hopefully it can be the other way around, too. So I think that, you know, that's what it's all about is just you get in there, you help people, and then you just make the connections where you can. Yep. No, I love it. So let's jump into the python side of things. Right, so you still code, but you love to code for yourself. Do you get much of an opportunity to code in the role? In the role, not so much. I've been looking for little things to do, little automations to do, but we're a little bit shorthanded. So I find myself just grinding through these tickets, and I don't have a lot of time to work on that, those sorts of things. So I have to go home and just work on my little projects and scratch my python itch there mostly. Yeah, no, I love that because that's exactly what we encourage people to do. So not knowing that I. This was not a leading question to, but, you know, if you can't do it at work and this is a message for people who are listening and saying, oh, you know, I don't get a chance to work. My role doesn't have to do with Python, and that's fine. Right. So the catch is you go home and do it. So big or small or, you know, is customized to you. Is there anything you want to share, anything you're working on that's kind of interesting? I think so. The last thing I worked on was basically, it was a command line utility that I like to, I'll just open a command line and I like to run it. But there is a python framework called beware that I'm a really big fan of. And I used that to create a user interface for this command utility. And then you can write code to, like, basically tell it, you know, hey, I want to click this button and I want it to ask me where I wanted to save this thing or, you know, that sort of thing. So I've been having a lot of fun just kind of getting like a minimal viable product, just like some garbage code that actually does the thing, but it doesn't look great or anything, and then I'm having a great time just kind of iterating over that and like creating branches to do different features and like, do all these things. So that's what I'm doing at home right now, is just working with like little useful things that I'm interested in, and then I'll just try to like, program something to make it useful. I've been digging into, you know, this whole AI revolution that's happening. I'm just trying to understand as much as I can and if I haven't built anything yet or tried to tinker with anything, but I'm trying to wrap my head around that. And I do find it interesting, you know, having a little personal, making a personal model or something that learns off of data that you want it to learn off of locally or something like that. Those things interest me. So, yeah, haven't, haven't built anything yet or dived into that, but, yeah, it's kind of things on my radar. Yeah, that, that's where you gotta. I love hearing this because we just talked about on the podcast the other day that we're looking to create a pie bytes AI, like an LLM, but it's the only data it's fed is just pivot stuff. Yeah. So that we can give it to all of you as pdmers and former PDM as well. Like, if you want to know about query firebights, about anything, just ask it and it'll come back to you with whatever. Right. Yeah, I mean, that's instantly a great project. I love the sound of that. Yeah, you should get involved, man. We'll chuck it on GitHub and we'll get you in there and you can see how we're working on it. That sounds fantastic. Yeah, that sounds fantastic. No, I love that. That's fantastic. And that's just reiterating that whole thing about scratching your own itch. Right. You don't have to be working with it every day to, to code something. What's something interesting that you would love to see come into existence? What's something that you bothers you at home or is manual at home or is annoying and you can just automate it? I think that's great. It's a great lesson and reminder that that's how we should all be coding, because you're kind of like a magician when you know how to code. Just solve things out of thin air, you know? Yeah, it feels like that. And it's funny that you mentioned magician because I was, I was listening to someone talk about this, where they. They wanted to stop using their keyboard, so they just have their mic, and they're just basically, like, whispering command, like, code into their mic. And, uh, their partner was just like, what is this black magic that you're trying to conjure in your office? Uh, I just thought that was hilarious. So that's a little side tangent there, but I thought that was funny. I like that we're, we're an eccentric bunch in the tech sector. I like that. That's great. All right, so let's dive into some tips. Okay, so you've. You've made a successful transition into the tech world. You've got a lifetime and the world ahead of you. You'll be pushing for more python work. But what kind of tips at this point do you have for people when it comes to mindset, lessons, behaviors, whatever? Getting to this point, what do you have for people? I would say for mindset, one thing that. That never fails to feel a little bit scary, but has always, has always brought me to the next level is just to dive in and to get your hands dirty and just accept the hard things that are in front of you, because you're just not going to know everything ever. And so. So you just have to kind of cultivate that mindset of, like, okay, like, this is what's in front of me, and this is what I'm going to do to try to figure it out. So that's one thing I would say, because even today, you know, I've been at my job for. Well, I've been in the help desk for about two years, uh, three years, maybe, and, uh, like, two and a half years. And so, basically, you know, I'm still finding things. Like, sometimes they're simple, but I'm still finding things that I'm just like, oh, my gosh, like, how do we. How do we fix this? Uh, so, anyways, that's one of the. One of the biggest tips I can give. And then, um, even if it's small, small increments at a time, ten minutes, 20 minutes, try. Try to. Try to work on something or have something that you're working on that's not your job, and it interests you because that's going to keep that fire going, and at times, it's going to ebb and, like, ebb and flow, but, yeah, you got. You got to kind of keep that going because you want to keep practicing. You want to keep your mind kind of sharpened for those more technical things. Uh, so that that's kind of what I've been trying to do for myself is just, even if it's, you know, 1015 minutes doesn't matter. Just try to work on something if you can. Yeah, I think that that's a good tip as well, because, so, first of all, I like that idea of, you know, pushing through the difficult things. The hurdles are always going to be there. It doesn't matter how high successful, whatever you get, you're always going to have something difficult in front of you. That's a great point with regards to the, you know, just giving yourself that little bit of time every day to focus on something different as well, outside of what you're working on during the day or your regular hobbies, I think is important in our field as well because there's new tech every five minutes. You know, there's. There's always a new library being launched, there's a new product coming out, there's new technology, there's new everything, and it's very easy to feel left behind very quickly. So I think that that's a point I'm going to take because, you know, with running pie bytes and all the things happening in life, it is very easy for me to be like, what? What are you talking about? What's that? When I meet with people and they're like, oh, working on this. I said, what are you talking about? So, yeah, giving yourself, you know, just even dedicated time to just study up and see what's going on in the world of tech and tinker with a new product. Like, so beware. Right. I touched it a very long time ago, probably 2019 or something like that, but I haven't looked at it, and that means five years. So I'm sure they've made heaps of changes. I think the owner of it. Russell. Russell. Keith McGee. Yeah, that's right. So I remember meeting him at Pycon once, and I think that would have been the last time I played with beware. So I'd love to see what the team's done with it, you know, what the community's done with it. So that's going to be my 15 minutes today. No, I love it, man. That's. That's fantastic. And it shows that, you know, underlying all these points that you've made, there's just this growth mindset of not sitting on your laurels. Right, right. And, you know, another one, maybe one last tip I would give, I'm coming to find that I learned really well listening to things, and I think something that's really, really helped me is sort of sitting down and curating a playlist of podcasts. I know this sounds really funny, but podcasts are really great because depending on which ones you're listening to, if you're new to something, it can really teach you about the culture really fast, and it can kind of give you these guideposts of like, which direction or what rock you should look under or what direction you might want to try to look at. I can't tell you how huge it was listening to several different tech podcasts, and they're all things that I'm interested in or things I might be interested in. And it's just given me a quick, like, it's kind of like a hack. Like, it just gives you a quick insight to the culture, the tech, and just the things that you're interested in, like real, real life things. So I think that's a huge one for me, and that continues to serve me. That's awesome, man. And when I think one of the challenges with consumption of things like podcasts and even reading books and all those things, it's when people. One of the biggest excuses, I'll say excuse, I'll be blunt and critical. One of the biggest excuses from people is I don't have time. So when do you squeeze it in? How? Yeah, so, so everyone's going to be different, and I totally appreciate that. But for me, you know, when I was working my blue collar job, so landscaping and then pushing, pushing a cleaning card around a school for hours, I would often listen to podcasts while I'm doing my work because not that it was necessarily mindless, but, you know, I can just push a lawnmower for half an hour and listen to a podcast and that. Like, you're kind of multitasking. Right. Or when I'm driving home from work because I have to commute sometimes an hour. Uh, definitely. That's a great time to do it then. Yeah, just pretty much. I try to almost layer it onto simple tasks that I'm already doing, like folding laundry or, um, like doing putting your laundry in or something, something like this, you know, where you can kind of layer another task onto something like that. Yeah, yeah, no, no, I'm. I'm with you. Same here. I. I do it while doing, um, finances. No, I'm joking. Um, in fact, I'm listening to one right now while we're recording. No, I. For me, it's, it's in the car sometimes, but mainly I'll listen to it while, you know, cleaning the kitchen. I'll listen to a podcast or watch a, you know, YouTube podcast, whatever in, in the shower. You know, I'll do it. Okay. Yeah. Random times during the day. I actually quite like in the shower because I'm just completely diffused, you know. Right. It's, it's pretty cool. And I'll have to try that. I, I haven't tried that yet. Well, just make sure you don't turn the camera on when you, when you're doing something. That's a good tip. Freak some people out. Yeah, exactly. That's a, that's a nice way to end all of that. What's next for you? The question bob and I are constantly asking ourselves is what's next? What's next? What's next? So for you, what's next? So, you know, I'm not an expert, but after spending two and a half years at the help desk, I am looking forward. I am trying to, yeah. I'm trying to figure out again, like, which, what lane do I want to sink into and, and really just start digging deep. I feel like that's going to be really helpful just to focus on career wise. I'm really just looking to, to apply for, for a couple jobs, a couple different types of jobs, not just kind of like help desk or sysadmin. I'm going to do things that are adjacent to that. But I think that's the next step for me, is deciding what's adjacent to my current path and figuring out what are the next, best steps to take a step to go into that direction, essentially, because I'm finding, I am struggling with that a little bit, but I think that's very common. And, yeah, you just, like you said, you kind of, you just got to keep, keep moving. And so that's, that's kind of what's next for me is just kind of picking my direction a little bit better. Yeah. Picking the lane you want to go in. Yeah. I appreciate that. And you know what? That's, you're exactly right. This is a common thing. This is everyone. This is me. This was me like two days ago. This is, everyone I know has this thought of like, well, what is next? And do I want to spend the next ten years doing this? Do I want to spend the next year doing this? What do I actually enjoy? Do I change my career entirely? My entire industry? You know, what, is it too late in my life to this? I think people are questioning that. Twenty four seven. And the point you make is super important, which is just keep pushing, just keep going, you know, don't let it cripple you. Don't let it slow you down, obviously, give it the thought it deserves, but sometimes you just got to make a decision. You just could say, I'm going to do this, I'm going to try it. If it doesn't work out, then it doesn't work out. As you got that experience, you get something out of it, you know? Yeah. And I, and I think you bring up a good point is like, you just do it. You can always choose something else in the future if it's not working for you. And I think I need to remember that because, you know, sometimes you might find yourself just kind of like, oh, that's. That's not quite what I. Not quite what I want or not, that's not quite it or that's not so. Yeah, I think just. Yep. Well, so things, you know, so many things in the tech sector, you know, gone are the days of everyone in roles in like a factory role, the industrial revolution type roles, right. Where you were trained to be an operator of this and that's all you did and you couldn't have any other skills almost. Right, right. It was very difficult now with the Internet and AI and there's so much you can do to have multiple skill sets across different fields. And it's just, it's exciting because it means you can make these pivots every couple of years if you really want. No one's going to limit you. Life's what it is now, and that's one of the benefits of it. With all the other things that come with it. That's difficult at the moment, but we won't dive into that. But, yeah, look, Luis, it's such an inspiring story, hearing your transition. I know you're the biggest imposter when it comes to this story. The imposter syndrome hits very hard when we start going into that and you know what I mean? Yeah. But it is very inspiring and I think it'll inspire a lot of people out there to be like, yeah, you know, this is, it just comes with the mindset to push. That's it. I hope so. Yeah. You know, this podcast and many others have definitely inspired. Inspired me. I have listened to countless stories that, that I can relate to and that, that really helps me out. So, you know, if you're out there and you're trying to pivot your career, just stick to, stick to your guns and make sure that you, you just give yourself all the chances. Don't deny yourself. Don't say I can't do that, or I don't think I'm good enough for that because you are. And you just have to apply yourself. Yeah. That's such a cool quote. I'm going to take that. I'm going to put that at the front of this podcast when it's done. All right, sounds good. All right, last question. We asked this every, every episode. What are you reading currently? I am reading wiring the winning. And this is a book that. It basically is a mindset book. And it kind of talks about the characteristics and qualities that a really good organization has to empower the people that are a part of the organization and to set people up to win. And I say that, you know, you're getting all the tools that you need. Your organizations providing all the tools that one would need to be successful. It's kind of things around that, but it has more to do with, I think they're kind of like slogan or something is like, you know, like agile and this and that got us halfway there. But, you know, this book goes in deep to talk about more of what can be done. And that's what. It's a really good book. And it was written by. I'm forgetting who it's written by as two people, but they're both very smart and very good at what they do. And it's just super interesting, you know, as I dive into career stuff, you know, that's. That's a book that I'm kind of using to see red flags, if you will. So. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. Be educated on those before they happen. I love that. We are. What we'll do is we will add that to the show notes so people can give it a look and. Yeah, that's awesome, man. I'm not going to share a book because I just shared it on the last podcast episode. Okay. Still sitting on my desk from two nights ago when I record factfulness. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Ten reasons we're wrong about the world and why things are better than you think. Okay. Perfect timing. Yeah, I have to look into it. Yeah, yeah, it comes highly recommended. Um, I've seen it in multiple places, which made me go, all right, fine, I'll read it. I'll give it a look. So. Got it. It still has that new book smell. Hang on, listen to me. Smell this book. Gotta love it. Smells. All right, Luis, any parting word? Actually, you had a great parting word. I'm not going to put you on the spot. So thank you so much for being here finally. It's been months we've been to and froing about talking about this. It's great to finally get it done. It's been an absolute pleasure to date because this is, you know, it's not like I'm gonna say we're never going to talk again. No, no. Having you in the community, seeing your story, your inspiring words, the way that you interact with everyone, it's just wonderful. So thank you so much, and, yeah, that's the end of the episode. We're done. All right. Thank you, Julian. I appreciate you having me. My pleasure. Thanks, everyone, for listening. We'll be back next week. We hope you enjoyed this episode. To hear more from us, go to Pibyte, France. That is Pibit es friends and receive a free gift just for being a friend of the show and to join our thriving community of python programmers, go to Pibytes community. That's Pibit es community. We hope to see you there and catch you in the next episode.